Author Topic: Two things missing from most stations…  (Read 2918 times)

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Offline MDDad

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Two things missing from most stations…
« on: August 27, 2024, 05:52:53 PM »
Accurate snowfall liquid equivalent and accurate wind speed.

In my tree laden East Coast landscape, it’s damn near impossible to get a good wind reading unless you install your unit on the roof, but that’s a bad location for accurate temp readings.

And as far as snow, a light to moderate snowfall without a lot of wind, it will often eventually melt into the rain collector and give a fairly accurate liquid equivalent, but nothing with a lot of wind and or a really heavy snowfall works right. Are there any weather stations that have an actual good snowfall measurement tool? I’m more interested in the liquid equivalent so I can get accurate annual precipitation readings.

Online R.Sidetrack

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Re: Two things missing from most stations…
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2024, 08:50:51 PM »
In my tree laden East Coast landscape, it’s damn near impossible to get a good wind reading unless you install your unit on the roof, but that’s a bad location for accurate temp readings.
You don't have to use an all-in-one unit.

For instance: https://shop.ecowitt.com/collections/weather-station/products/gw1102
. . . allows you to place the individual sensors as you see fit.
Graham

--- Variety of Ecowitt devices; CumulusMX on Raspberry Pi4 ---

Offline Mattk

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Re: Two things missing from most stations…
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2024, 10:18:28 PM »
On the roof is also a bad location for good wind readings, also bad for good precipitation readings.

Doppler radar 24GHz precipitation sensor will measure droplet size/sensitivity/particle velocity/type(rain/snow), solid precipitation (hail) and intensity

Offline weatherdoc

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Re: Two things missing from most stations…
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2024, 07:46:54 AM »
Even ASOS/AWOS do not have automated snowfall measurements - they are done by humans (Contract Weather Observers) with a snow board and a stick. The FAA has invested in research to verify a present weather sensor that can differentiate among rain, snow, snow pellets, freezing rain, and sleet but it will be several years before they start deploying it at ASOS sites. And, I don't believe that new sensor will measure snow - it's focus is to support deicing decisions for aircraft and to replace the human that is still needed to observer present weather.

Offline doubleohwhatever

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Re: Two things missing from most stations…
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2024, 09:20:42 AM »
Are there any weather stations that have an actual good snowfall measurement tool? I’m more interested in the liquid equivalent so I can get accurate annual precipitation readings.

A heated bucket may be about the best you can get unless you have a budget large enough to start playing with sensors like the Lufft WS100.

Offline DoctorKnow

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Re: Two things missing from most stations…
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2024, 09:47:01 AM »
The cheaper stations use ball bearings for their wind shafts. These need attention every year in my experience. They get dirt exposure, and pollen contamination. If you clean these up, and use some dry lube, they will run like champs. Also finding the right spot in your yard will make a huge difference. I moved my station way in the back, between obstacles, and this has made a huge difference. My station reads higher now than most, and even matches up with the air facilities quite well. I have mine on a flag pole with a tripod mount that once held a large umbrella, held down with cinder blocks and guy lines. 

Offline TheBushPilot

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Re: Two things missing from most stations…
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2024, 10:54:47 AM »
Your best bet for measuring all types of precipitation reliably are with a present weather sensor, be it from OTT Hygromet or Optical Scientific. The "only" caveat to these are that they run around ~$5000 to $10,000. I don't believe these directly do snow water equivalent readings but you can easily calculate that.

You probably won't find this technology in home weather stations for a long time if ever. :roll:

The Parsivel2 from OTT uses a laser to discriminate droplet type and size. Optical Scientific manufactures specific sensors for precipitation measurement for rain and snow. Those use IR scintillation to derive type and intensity/accumulation. Both would require a dedicated logging system and communications equipment. $$$

Otherwise alternatively weighing gauges are a cheaper alternative though still in the $1000s. Putting up the appropriate wind alter shields around one of them and filling the gauge with anti-freeze allow for winter snow-water equivalency measurements is a valid approach. That's what the NYS Mesonet does. Or heated rain gauges in the same setup though still having to compensate for evaporation. Those also typically require mains power.

There's really no cheap way to do it if done properly. :-| Either not at all or requiring $$$$$.

Even with automated snowfall measurements many mesonets are adopting using sonic depth sensors, there are nuances there as well. These don't compensate for drifts or if the ground melts the snow during slow accumulation. Present weather sensors are really really good at what they do but at a prohibitive price point.


Siting for anemometers is the biggest factor for "accurate" measurements. That goes for any anemometer. Picking up a $3500 3D sonic from R. M. Young and putting it tens of feet behind a two story house will perform worse than the Acurite 5 in 1 sited 10 ft AGL in an open field on a farm. Really comes down to context.


Cheers

Offline hofpwx

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Re: Two things missing from most stations…
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2024, 11:33:44 AM »
Real estate and WX obs are all about the location, location, location.


Offline henry

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Re: Two things missing from most stations…
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2024, 09:26:53 AM »
Ecowitt is going to release their level/distance measurement sensor: LDS01. This device can be used for tank level , snow depth measurement. It is within 1cm accuracy, and even can be used to make a automatic level controller via the faucet valve or ball valve controller on the ecowitt ecosystem.

 

anything