Author Topic: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.  (Read 23905 times)

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Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #825 on: June 23, 2020, 01:05:28 PM »

Since you are the only reasonable one here that knows what is going on I'll excuse myself from this thread.  Btw, you didn't mention that you were there.  Did you take the picture, too?
You don't have to be there to use a little bit of reason.

As I recall, you already removed yourself from the discussion.  Remember?  You talked talked something about how you have never been anything but all smiles and friendly to everyone and that you were done with the discussion.

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #826 on: June 23, 2020, 01:16:15 PM »
For the sake of accuracy, lest I'm accused of distorting someone's words:
I agree, too, that that most of the scowling, worried-looking  people usually aren't wearing masks.  It's almost like they know they should be wearing a mask and are for some reason angry that they've been "caught" without one (though they knew very well when they left the house they weren't wearing one).  Go figure, eh? :roll:
I kind of find that hard to believe based on my experience.  But while we're getting into psychology I'll just point out that most people respond in kind to you.  So if you have a superior attitude and think that you "caught" the non-mask wearer, that would go a long way to explain your observation.

I, in no way, act or acted superior to others as you've inferred.  It is evident that our experiences have been different, I was sharing mine.  Where wxforum was once a place of friendly debate on occasion I see that it is now a place for some members to point misguided fingers and promote their "you're wrong, I'm right, it's your fault" attitudes.  Respond as you will, but I'm through with this conversation.  Best wishes.
Still makes me wonder, if your assumptions regarding that photo can be shown to be questionable, can your perception of those you meet on the street also be questionable?  Also have to wonder, who is pointing misguided fingers and promoting their "you're wrong, I'm right, it's your fault" attitudes?  Surely not the one who's quick to condemn all non-mask wearers.  Or even those going to the beach, conducting business, and living their lives.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 02:38:07 PM by SnowHiker »

Offline METARMan

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #827 on: June 26, 2020, 11:45:55 AM »
In Harris County, TX (Metro Houston) ICU bed usage was at 90% of capacity on May 30th.   On June 25th, there have been 76 more patients, the current ICU bed occupancy is 93% of capacity.

A 3% increase in about a month, 76 more ICU patients in a county of over 4,000,000 people.

Offline Bunty

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #828 on: June 27, 2020, 07:32:27 PM »
OSU and OU will require mask wear on campus.  Oklahoma State Fair in OKC canceled.

And Stillwater City Council still mulls over mask ordinance:

After months of pleading with the public to wear face coverings when they go out, the Stillwater City Council is considering a new city ordinance that would require people to wear masks in public.

The Stillwater City Council is expected to discuss the measure during its July 6 meeting, City Manager Norman McNickle told the News Press. It’s not something the councilors have wanted to do, given the backlash they faced in March after enacting an emergency declaration requiring masks be worn in a variety of businesses.

Mayor Will Joyce has been an outspoken advocate for the wearing of face coverings as a way to slow the spread of COVID-19 during the shutdown and continuing as more businesses and public gathering places opened up.

Until early June, Stillwater had held at 22 total and zero active cases for weeks. As of Thursday, Payne County’s cumulative total had climbed to 300 cases.

Stillwater, which represents about 61% of the county’s population, contributed 88% of those cases with a cumulative total of 264. That number included 109 recoveries and 155 active infections, 85% of Payne County’s 183 active infections.

“The rapid rise in cases is concerning, and we want to make sure we’re considering every possible option for the public’s health and well-being,” Joyce said Friday.

Younger people have made up the bulk of recently diagnoses cases and hospitalizations have remained low, but city and public health officials have said it won’t take much for infections to make the jump to more medically vulnerable populations, and that’s when hospitalizations would also start to rise dramatically.

People are asked to continue following social distancing guidelines, washing their hands, sanitizing, and wearing masks. Health officials also recommend avoiding close contact and large gatherings for more than 15 minutes at a time, McNickle said.

The City Council has indicated it will monitor hospitalizations as a cue to roll back Phase III openings or enact more restrictive measures. Stillwater Medical Center had not needed to enact its surge procedures at press time, but hospitals in neighboring states like Texas are reporting their Intensive Care Units are nearing capacity.
MORE AT:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/stillwater-city-council-mulls-over-mask-ordinance/article_c43c5751-e604-5df4-a8eb-31f79d335183.html

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Offline METARMan

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #829 on: July 01, 2020, 03:02:45 PM »
How are things on the ground in Stillwater? 

The “surge” has been occurring for 4 weeks now but the news reports I’ve seen say the hospitals haven’t had a big increase in patients and I only see one death in the county.   When did that happen?

Offline stevebrtx

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #830 on: July 01, 2020, 04:32:36 PM »
You've probably noticed, for all the panic and hype from the media, they rarely, if ever, mention the death rate. Down here it's flat, so you got the flu, sorry, you'll feel better soon. Now, can I stop carrying around this rancid mangy mask in my pocket just to get in a store? - oh well, never mind, if you're stuck on stupid I'll just go somewhere else of buy it or get it on line.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #831 on: July 01, 2020, 06:21:55 PM »
President Trump is finally saying now people should be wearing a mask
about time
also note that the death curve lags the cases curve by 2 to 4 weeks
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 06:54:50 PM by waiukuweather »

Offline havtrail

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #832 on: July 01, 2020, 08:31:35 PM »
You've probably noticed, for all the panic and hype from the media, they rarely, if ever, mention the death rate. Down here it's flat, so you got the flu, sorry, you'll feel better soon. Now, can I stop carrying around this rancid mangy mask in my pocket just to get in a store? - oh well, never mind, if you're stuck on stupid I'll just go somewhere else of buy it or get it on line.

Steve, it depends on where you live. I think you are in Llano County, TX, where there have been no deaths attributed to COVID-19. The worst county in Texas, on the basis of deaths per 100,000 in population, is Crane County, where there have been 42 COVID-19 attributed deaths, which is one death for every 532 residents. The worst-hit county in the U.S. on this basis is Hancock County, GA with 1 COVID-19 attributed death for every 267 residents. These are deaths, not cases.

Data here (go down to the table "Cases and deaths by state and county":
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

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Offline stevebrtx

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #833 on: July 03, 2020, 12:40:27 PM »
Ok, you want to trust the data being reported as factual, unvarnished actual honest what-is-happening data? - well, here's Collin County and what they're doing, you don't need to watch the whole things, the last few minutes tell you how "honest" and "accurate" the data we're seeing is. It's been well documented in recent weeks that in some areas you can die of a gunshot wound and if the autopsy shows Covid - you're listed as a Covid death. As you might imagine I have absolutely no confidence in what is going on, even here in Texas (and I thought we were smarter?) but it's basically designed to keep us locked down until November and then you'll see how quickly things change depending on the results Nov 4th.
https://www.facebook.com/shannicsewell/videos/10158632650664540/

Offline Bunty

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #834 on: July 03, 2020, 02:37:47 PM »
How are things on the ground in Stillwater? 

The “surge” has been occurring for 4 weeks now but the news reports I’ve seen say the hospitals haven’t had a big increase in patients and I only see one death in the county.   When did that happen?

Positive cases still going up in Stillwater.  On Monday it was at 316.  Today, Friday, it's at 360.  As a result,  Stillwater rose up a notch and now rated as the no. 8 city in Oklahoma for number of cases.   That puts things a little out of proportion on the undesirable side from Stillwater being 9th in population.  Fortunately, still no deaths.  The only county death was in Cushing a couple or so months ago.

The city council meets Monday when it will be discussed if more restrictions are needed.  Unlike Texas, hospitals in Oklahoma currently aren't being overwhelmed by the upsurge.  Hopefully, it will remain that way.  But Oklahoma had 526 new cases, Friday.  The all time daily high is 585 set earlier this week.

Tulsa County where Trump was is no longer ahead in total cases as of today.  Oklahoma City is having a surge of its own and now leads in cases.  Oklahoma City mayor responded by requiring all workers in bars and restaurants to wear masks.  Bars must reduce capacity to 50%.  Tulsa did similarly.

4th of July fireworks canceled in Stillwater at Boomer Lake Park.  Happy 4th.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 06:11:29 PM by Bunty »

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Offline havtrail

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #835 on: July 03, 2020, 04:12:53 PM »
Ok, you want to trust the data being reported as factual, unvarnished actual honest what-is-happening data? - well, here's Collin County and what they're doing, you don't need to watch the whole things, the last few minutes tell you how "honest" and "accurate" the data we're seeing is. It's been well documented in recent weeks that in some areas you can die of a gunshot wound and if the autopsy shows Covid - you're listed as a Covid death. As you might imagine I have absolutely no confidence in what is going on, even here in Texas (and I thought we were smarter?) but it's basically designed to keep us locked down until November and then you'll see how quickly things change depending on the results Nov 4th.
https://www.facebook.com/shannicsewell/videos/10158632650664540/

Do you really believe that Georgia is trying to pump up its COVID fatality numbers?

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Offline stevebrtx

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #836 on: July 03, 2020, 04:52:50 PM »
With the evidence across the country of what's going on, how can you seriously believe they're NOT pumping up the numbers?
Read it and weep, I can provide examples across the country as long as you deny reality. Look around, use some critical thinking.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8jy9hyl6iqjas6e/NEW%20Covid-19%20Case%20Definions.pdf?dl=0

PS: it's not my job to do your homework for you, if you want to know the truth, dig in and get off the main stream media hype and find the sources of actual truth and I don't mean going to the State's data, I just showed you why that's flawed.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 05:08:12 PM by stevebrtx »

Offline saratogaWX

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #837 on: July 03, 2020, 05:36:23 PM »
I find that Dropbox is likely not an authoritative source to be implicitly trusted -- too easy to forge misinformation and pass it off as legit.  Where is that document posted on a legitimate source like https://www.collincountytx.gov/public_health/Pages/default.aspx ?

Rooting around sketchy websites for truth is unlikely to reveal truth, but instead just assist promulgating disinformation.

The numbers of infections and deaths is horrific (even if potentially inflated by misclassification).  Mitigation is the appropriate response to reduce the spread. 
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Offline CW2274

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #838 on: July 03, 2020, 06:02:26 PM »
if you want to know the truth, dig in and get off the main stream media hype and find the sources of actual truth
=D> MSM is an absolute scourge on this country, and not just Covid crap.

Offline stevebrtx

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #839 on: July 03, 2020, 06:07:23 PM »
Yes, I've dealt with the "sources" of information for years with folks who can't face the truth if it doesn't agree with their narrative. If it's not the NYT or some other MSM rag, it's not legitimate. Let's put it to you this way YOU PROVE YOUR SOURCES ARE CORRECT RATHER THAN SIMPLY EXCLUDING MY SOURCES AS WRONG. Try that for a change and see what you get. You just proved my exact point, the COUNTY is the source of bad information. But, I can see you still aren't willing to do some critical thinking, try this:https://www.dropbox.com/s/8jy9hyl6iqjas6e/NEW%20Covid-19%20Case%20Definions.pdf?dl=0

Yes, Yes, I know, you'd love to imagine away that this isn't a verifiable source of information. The real question I have to ask you is why are you so determined to believe the government and not the people who are watching the government to keep them honest? You answer that and you'll have your truth.





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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #840 on: July 03, 2020, 07:04:06 PM »
I looked at the PDF file properties:
Title: Microsoft PowerPoint - Explanation.pptx [Read-Only]
Author: e010320
Created: 5/18/2020 10:30:06am
Modified: 5/18/2020 10:30:06am
Subject: <none>
Keywords: <none>

Odd that no mention of https://www.dshs.texas.gov/ or the Collin County DHS site itself in the PDF.

Could it likely have originated from https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort-worth/frisco/coronavirus/2020/05/19/new-covid-19-definitions-by-the-state-could-raise-case-counts-in-collin-county/ ?
That was written by Elizabeth Ucles | 6:27 PM May 19, 2020 CDT | Updated 3:20 PM May 20, 2020 CDT

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Offline gwwilk

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #841 on: July 03, 2020, 07:57:03 PM »
I have grave reservations with the entire scenario as rendered by our infectious disease experts:

Look at the daily cases currently being seen in the NorthEast's 'Commuter States', i.e. NY, CT, NJ, etc.  (On the JHU site click on the lower right 'Daily Cases' tab to display this graph.)  Then on the left column select 'US'.  Then on the bottom of that column go to <Admin1>.  Then click on NY, NJ, CT, MA, or MD to see their curves on the lower right graph.  You will see that they're NOT experiencing an uptick in cases but have instead continued on their steadily descending curves.  Why is this, you wonder?  Are they so much better at contact tracing, wearing masks, sanitizing, and social distancing than the rest of us?  I seriously doubt it considering the severity of their epidemic at its outset.

A much more plausible explanation would be that the infection arrived via airplanes from Europe very early on, and spread throughout the population before any 'control' measures were begun.  No, they're not better at preventing COVID-19's spread!  What we're seeing now is probably the effect of 'herd immunity'.

Now, contrast the NorthEast's experience with that of Fauci's original poster children.  WA, OR, and CA are currently experiencing a second wave of cases far worse than the initial wave.  Why possibly is that?  Travel from China was curtailed very early on, thus limiting the exposure of these states' citizens to COVID-19.  Now that people are relaxing their Draconian measures a bit, the asymptomatic carriers, who incidentally have always been the jokers in this deck, are coming into contact with those who are more vulnerable to symptomatic infections.  Don't believe me?  Take a look at Montana's cases.  After being well-in-hand through early May a huge spike occurred in June, and it has persisted to this day.  Well-to-do people from urban areas in CA, OR, and WA have been building luxury summer homes all over the mountainous regions of the state where it's much less costly than back home, and May is when they returned to their roosts!  This coincides nicely with the increased number of cases seen.

The COVID-19 virus testing farce is not a useful control measure once the curve has been flattened and the health care facilities haven't been overrun.  There are too many ways that infections can be missed and subsequently spread by, you guessed it, asymptomatic carriers, as well as inanimate objects, e.g. your mail.  You need to test everybody every day in order for the tests to actually halt the spread of the virus.  Testing as it's now being done misses the incubation period!  And unless the individual is under strict quarantine with virtually no outside contact there's always the opportunity for new surreptitious infection which testing-just-once will not pick up.

We are inching our way across our country towards the only effective control measure for COVID-19:  herd immunity.  As this occurs we MUST protect those who are most vulnerable to the worst that this virus can do, namely, our elderly, chronically ill, and immune compromised citizens.  Vaccines offer some eventual hope of giving them the necessary immunity in order for them to return to normal social interactions.  But until then it is our responsibility to protect them.

Just my interpretation of the JHU data and the events as they transpire...
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 08:00:05 PM by gwwilk »
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Offline Jasiu

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #842 on: July 03, 2020, 09:49:02 PM »
Then click on NY, NJ, CT, MA, or MD to see their curves on the lower right graph.  You will see that they're NOT experiencing an uptick in cases but have instead continued on their steadily descending curves.  Why is this, you wonder?  Are they so much better at contact tracing, wearing masks, sanitizing, and social distancing than the rest of us?

As someone who lives in MA, I can emphatically say yes to this. The overwhelming majority of people are wearing masks when indoors and even outdoors when not near other people. The bars have not reopened yet and there is no intention to do so here until there is a vaccine (as I heard today). It's not ubiquitous, but the vast majority of people are taking it seriously and not putting themselves into the main situations (indoors, close proximity to others, prolonged exposure to other groups of people, alcohol) that provoke the spread.

There are still people getting sick here, and there are still people dying. But a whole lot of us would like the kids to be able to go back to school in the fall and are doing everything reasonably possible to knock the numbers down so that can happen. Just about everyone also knows someone who works in health care and the hell that they went through earlier this year - and don't want to inflict that on them again.


Offline Jim_S

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #843 on: July 03, 2020, 10:58:03 PM »
Steve, it depends on where you live. I think you are in Llano County, TX, where there have been no deaths attributed to COVID-19. The worst county in Texas, on the basis of deaths per 100,000 in population, is Crane County, where there have been 42 COVID-19 attributed deaths, which is one death for every 532 residents. The worst-hit county in the U.S. on this basis is Hancock County, GA with 1 COVID-19 attributed death for every 267 residents. These are deaths, not cases.

Data here (go down to the table "Cases and deaths by state and county":
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

Rich K.
Rich, since there is no "like" button in this forum I'm going to quote your post and give it a +1.

It's nice to see someone that can express their opinion, intelligently, respectfully, without any name calling or suggesting that people who disagree are somehow, "stuck on stupid".

Thank you!

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #844 on: July 03, 2020, 11:36:43 PM »

It's nice to see someone that can express their opinion, intelligently, respectfully, without any name calling or suggesting that people who disagree are somehow, "stuck on stupid".

Thank you!
Of course you've managed to make your point without taking a jab at anyone on the forum.  :lol:

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #845 on: July 04, 2020, 12:16:37 AM »
I have grave reservations with the entire scenario as rendered by our infectious disease experts:

Look at the daily cases currently being seen in the NorthEast's 'Commuter States', i.e. NY, CT, NJ, etc.  (On the JHU site click on the lower right 'Daily Cases' tab to display this graph.)  Then on the left column select 'US'.  Then on the bottom of that column go to <Admin1>.  Then click on NY, NJ, CT, MA, or MD to see their curves on the lower right graph.  You will see that they're NOT experiencing an uptick in cases but have instead continued on their steadily descending curves.  Why is this, you wonder?  Are they so much better at contact tracing, wearing masks, sanitizing, and social distancing than the rest of us?  I seriously doubt it considering the severity of their epidemic at its outset.

A much more plausible explanation would be that the infection arrived via airplanes from Europe very early on, and spread throughout the population before any 'control' measures were begun.  No, they're not better at preventing COVID-19's spread!  What we're seeing now is probably the effect of 'herd immunity'.

Now, contrast the NorthEast's experience with that of Fauci's original poster children.  WA, OR, and CA are currently experiencing a second wave of cases far worse than the initial wave.  Why possibly is that?  Travel from China was curtailed very early on, thus limiting the exposure of these states' citizens to COVID-19.  Now that people are relaxing their Draconian measures a bit, the asymptomatic carriers, who incidentally have always been the jokers in this deck, are coming into contact with those who are more vulnerable to symptomatic infections.  Don't believe me?  Take a look at Montana's cases.  After being well-in-hand through early May a huge spike occurred in June, and it has persisted to this day.  Well-to-do people from urban areas in CA, OR, and WA have been building luxury summer homes all over the mountainous regions of the state where it's much less costly than back home, and May is when they returned to their roosts!  This coincides nicely with the increased number of cases seen.

The COVID-19 virus testing farce is not a useful control measure once the curve has been flattened and the health care facilities haven't been overrun.  There are too many ways that infections can be missed and subsequently spread by, you guessed it, asymptomatic carriers, as well as inanimate objects, e.g. your mail.  You need to test everybody every day in order for the tests to actually halt the spread of the virus.  Testing as it's now being done misses the incubation period!  And unless the individual is under strict quarantine with virtually no outside contact there's always the opportunity for new surreptitious infection which testing-just-once will not pick up.

We are inching our way across our country towards the only effective control measure for COVID-19:  herd immunity.  As this occurs we MUST protect those who are most vulnerable to the worst that this virus can do, namely, our elderly, chronically ill, and immune compromised citizens.  Vaccines offer some eventual hope of giving them the necessary immunity in order for them to return to normal social interactions.  But until then it is our responsibility to protect them.

Just my interpretation of the JHU data and the events as they transpire...
Since there is no "like" button in this forum I'm going to quote your post and give it a +1.

It's nice to see someone that can express their opinion, intelligently, respectfully, without any name calling or otherwise taking jabs at people you otherwise disagree with.

Thank you!

 :grin:

(It is interesting to watch how whether someone agrees with the poster or not determines whether that poster is praised or criticized for his perceived manner.)

Offline METARMan

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #846 on: July 04, 2020, 06:45:33 AM »
I am (was) an international airline pilot who likely acquired COVID-19 in London or Madrid in the early Spring.  It was extremely mild and without the testing or knowledge I would have thought nothing of my symptoms.  I still test positive for antibodies, even after a few months.  I seem to be "typical" for flight crews.  With that said, many flight crews (the majority?) have clearly come in contact with COVID-19 yet not developed an antibody response, but they seem to be immune (perhaps t-cells, but not my field of expertise).

I've also been a hypochondriac at times in my life and wasted many days, weeks, months with irrational fear that I had a significant disease.  I see a lot of hypochondria going on today.

I understand coronaviruses typically cause problems for the elderly and those with other significant underlying health conditions.  It seems like COVID-19 is in that regard, like other coronaviruses.

I am extremely disappointed that moderate and potentially more reasonable expert voices were rejected to go down a path that not only appears to be unscientific and irrational but also incredibly destructive economically and socially.  I'm extremely disappointed that politicians have the legal power to remove freedoms and institute restrictions based on fear and hysteria.

I've been impressed with the work of John Ioannidis throughout this pandemic and I think it's a shame he wasn't taken more seriously as I believe we could have alleviated a lot of unnecessary suffering.  He's one of the most cited epidemiologists in the world with this famous paper:

https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124

Here are some articles referencing him in regards to COVID-19:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-bearer-of-good-coronavirus-news-11587746176

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2020/06/12/john_ioannidis_and_medical_tribalism_in_the_era_of_covid-19_111427.html

I do think the closing of schools, mass unemployment, lockdowns and curtailment of freedoms has been unethical and inhumane and while protections should be in place to protect those at risk from COVID-19 the disease was already likely significantly widespread before action was taken. 

I currently do not have any idea why any actions are taken at disease mitigation since it is already clearly so widespread.  Mitigation at this point seems totally ineffective and irrational.   If deaths do not substantially increase again I wonder if the public health experts, epidemiological community and politicians are even capable of acknowledging their failures.   They seem so attached and defined by increasingly unlikely theories I wonder how much more data and science can be collected before they change their agenda, if ever?

Death is as much of a part of life as being born.  If you are scared to die, then you have stopped living and you are wasting the remaining days you have left, with or without COVID-19.

Attached below indicates the 7-day COVID testing average of some developed countries.  The amount of testing going on in the US and more important the increase in testing should be noted -- I believe the reason it is omitted from the media and public health experts dialogue is intentional deception.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 07:03:47 AM by METARMan »

Offline gwwilk

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #847 on: July 04, 2020, 08:57:09 AM »
@METARMan  [tup]

The immunology of COVID-19 is poorly understood.  According to some reports the antibodies can be evanescent in some people, i.e. they disappear after a short period of time.  (Bear in mind that the conclusion reached by the author of this article is unscientific nonsense!)  This doesn't mean that these individuals are again susceptible to COVID-19.  Rather their immune system is capable of ratcheting up quickly via an anamnestic immune response in order to ward off any further incursions by the virus.  This does, however, present a huge problem for those who wish to measure individuals' and society's level of protection by serologic testing for immunity.  And there's no way to bridge this gap in our knowledge, save one:  evidence of 'herd immunity' as currently seen in the NorthEast's Commuter States.

I wondered at the outset of the COVID-19 pandemic if the low case numbers reported by the Chinese were due to blatant lies or a covert immunization of their citizens prior to unleashing a possible bioweapon upon the world.  In my ignorance I missed the obvious explanation:  China is the world's largest repository of zoonotic viruses, coronaviruses being among them.  This almost certainly isn't the first time the Chinese have been exposed to similar but more benign congeners of COVID-19, thus giving them a level of herd immunity by default.  Hence the very low case numbers there.

Many thanks for the very helpful links.  John Ioannidis is a superbly honest scientist who isn't afraid to proclaim to all within shouting distance that 'The Emperor Has No Clothes'.  Would that there were more like him.

Happy Fourth of July!
Regards, Jerry Wilkins
gwwilk@gmail.com

Offline Bunty

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #848 on: July 04, 2020, 02:02:54 PM »
Oh, oh, Tulsa, where Trump was on June 20, has reclaimed the lead over OKC in having most number of cases, 2,709 to 2690.

Trump is to deliver a message next week concerning how we need to learn to live with the virus. It will be interesting to see what he means,
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/we-need-live-it-white-house-readies-new-message-nation-n1232884

Also the 2nd home page using modified AltDashboard 6.95 at http://stillwaterweather.com/wx/2ndhome.php

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #849 on: July 04, 2020, 03:29:36 PM »
Oh, oh, Tulsa, where Trump was on June 20, has reclaimed the lead over OKC in having most number of cases, 2,709 to 2690.
So how statistically significant is this, and with what basis do they arrive at those figures?  And what will the long term effects be for Tulsa as compared to OKC?  Will the places with the less diagnosed and claimed cases now suffer with less numbers over a longer period of time, or maybe peak some time later?  How many people from OKC went to see Trump in Tulsa?

I see that as a big part of the problem; statistics will be (mis)used and skewed to make virtually any point you want, and I see very little context with the numbers thrown about.  Other than to use them to attack people that they seemingly have an irrational hatred for.

But I'm sure people can take great pleasure in thinking that the spike (if there is one) in cases are Trump supporters who deserve it, after all it was their choice to accept the risk and get on with their lives.  :-P
Trump is to deliver a message next week concerning how we need to learn to live with the virus. It will be interesting to see what he means,
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/we-need-live-it-white-house-readies-new-message-nation-n1232884
I think it's fairly clear that whatever he means, you and NBC have already formed your opinions of it.

Yep, NBC news  :lol:.  I like the way they slant the "news" from the first paragraph:
Quote
After several months of mixed messages on the coronavirus pandemic, the White House is settling on a new one: Learn to live with it.
As if all the "mixed messages" are coming from the White House, and of course none of it is coming from the epidemiologists and the supposedly settled, yet somehow ever-changing, "science".  It's not like the politicians on the other side of the aisle have changed their minds to the point of contradicting themselves since the pandemic began.

So what is your alternative to "living with the virus"?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 04:42:09 PM by SnowHiker »

 

anything