Author Topic: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good  (Read 1197 times)

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Offline WSWeather

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All of the high-resolution Terminal Doppler Weather Radars appear to have "frozen" on December 17 and have not returned, showing "down for maintenance" now for over a month.  That's particularly unfortunate (for me at least) in that the O'Hare TDWR is practically in my backyard and is very useful.

Just another nail in the WU coffin...

Offline CW2274

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2020, 03:43:36 PM »
This shows the blue blob heading for you just fine...Got the correct radar this time. #-o

https://weather.cod.edu/satrad/nexrad/index.php?type=LOT-N0Q-1-24

Offline WSWeather

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2020, 04:56:16 PM »
That's the NWS's NEXRAD WSR-88D (LOT) at Romeoville.  I'm talking about the FAA's TDWR terminal radars (ORD, MDW) which are no longer available via WU (see the drop-down list).

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Offline CW2274

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2020, 05:38:52 PM »
That's the NWS's NEXRAD WSR-88D (LOT) at Romeoville.  I'm talking about the FAA's TDWR terminal radars (ORD, MDW) which are no longer available via WU (see the drop-down list).

So you're saying that the weather portion/display of the ASR (airport surveillance radar) that's used by ATC was available online? If so, that would be incredibly surprising to me.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 05:41:48 PM by CW2274 »

Offline WSWeather

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2020, 06:02:34 PM »
So you're saying that the weather portion/display of the ASR (airport surveillance radar) that's used by ATC was available online? If so, that would be incredibly surprising to me.
What I am saying is the local high definition terminal weather radar was available (see above).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_Doppler_Weather_Radar

Offline CW2274

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2020, 06:06:19 PM »
Well I'll be...I had no idea such a thing existed. In my defense, it was implemented just as I retired. ;)
Thanks for the education!

Offline Flessan

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2020, 07:53:46 PM »
I can shed some light on this subject, though it won't help until WU makes some changes.
 
The NWS issued this service change notice back in September. I'm linking to both the normal product and a cached version, because some NWS sites are having issues with some pages, including the SCN page.
 
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:FbM-gL_LtIAJ:https://www.weather.gov/media/notification/scn19-82tdwr_terminations.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
 
https://www.weather.gov/media/notification/scn19-82tdwr_terminations.pdf
 
Don't let the "tdwr_terminations" title scare you. It should really have been called "replacements".
 
Bottom line:  Some products have been upgraded to the higher resolution version of the same product. These have different naming conventions as well as different WMO Headers to receive them.
 
I sent WU an email quite some time ago. Of course, I never received anything more than the canned response, thanking me and assuring me they will look into my issue.
 

Offline Bunty

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2020, 08:49:11 PM »
This shows the blue blob heading for you just fine...Got the correct radar this time. #-o

https://weather.cod.edu/satrad/nexrad/index.php?type=LOT-N0Q-1-24

LOL, what's the holdup still about converting from Flash to HTML5 video?  Staff have no idea how to do it?  If true, I expect yowindow to eventually just disappear and die.

Also the 2nd home page using modified AltDashboard 6.95 at http://stillwaterweather.com/wx/2ndhome.php

Offline CW2274

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2020, 09:05:16 PM »
This shows the blue blob heading for you just fine...Got the correct radar this time. #-o

https://weather.cod.edu/satrad/nexrad/index.php?type=LOT-N0Q-1-24

LOL, what's the holdup still about converting from Flash to HTML5 video?  Staff have no idea how to do it?  If true, I expect yowindow to eventually just disappear and die.
Don't ask me...ask them. They say they're done with Flash at the end of this year. All I know is I really like their site.

Offline WSWeather

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2020, 11:39:25 PM »
LOL, what's the holdup still about converting from Flash to HTML5 video?  Staff have no idea how to do it?  If true, I expect yowindow to eventually just disappear and die.

That site is run as a part of a much larger curriculum of the College of DuPage, which is a community college.  My property taxes help pay for it. :)  Not everyone is as arrogant about HTML5 as you, and I'm sure they'll get to it when they need to.

Offline Bunty

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2020, 02:49:50 PM »
LOL, what's the holdup still about converting from Flash to HTML5 video?  Staff have no idea how to do it?  If true, I expect yowindow to eventually just disappear and die.

That site is run as a part of a much larger curriculum of the College of DuPage, which is a community college.  My property taxes help pay for it. :)  Not everyone is as arrogant about HTML5 as you, and I'm sure they'll get to it when they need to.

It will be interesting to see if they really do by the end of the year.

Also the 2nd home page using modified AltDashboard 6.95 at http://stillwaterweather.com/wx/2ndhome.php

Offline ocala

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2020, 05:25:03 PM »
Well I'll be...I had no idea such a thing existed. In my defense, it was implemented just as I retired. ;)
Thanks for the education!
Really, you had no idea they existed?
That's surprising.
Time to turn in that weather nerd card. :-P

Offline CW2274

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2020, 05:52:12 PM »
Well I'll be...I had no idea such a thing existed. In my defense, it was implemented just as I retired. ;)
Thanks for the education!
Really, you had no idea they existed?
That's surprising.
Time to turn in that weather nerd card. :-P
:oops:

Offline miraculon

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2020, 01:50:18 PM »
I had noticed that the TDWR radars were not working on GRLevel3 for a while now.

This thread was the only thing that I could find here on WxForum, and alas it was not for GRLevel3.

I did check the GRLevel3 forums and found that it was fixed in the latest beta. GRLevel3 2.91

It is working again and it is good to see it. Although they are only near major airports, it is good to be able to check them. I used it more when I lived in the Detroit area, since Metro Airport (DTW) has TDWR. (TDTW)

Since I moved "Up North", the "Alpena" radar (really near Gaylord) KAPX is the only one near me and there are no TDWR around here.

Greg H.


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WU: KMIROGER7
Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline Flessan

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2020, 03:16:19 PM »
I honestly can't believe weather underground hasn't gotten this fixed, yet. It's so easy. All they have to do is look at the service change notice that was issued by the National Weather Service and change to the new wmo headers and then update their web pages. I have emailed them several times, but all I ever get is the canned response.

Offline ocala

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2020, 05:19:26 PM »
I honestly can't believe weather underground hasn't gotten this fixed, yet. It's so easy. All they have to do is look at the service change notice that was issued by the National Weather Service and change to the new wmo headers and then update their web pages. I have emailed them several times, but all I ever get is the canned response.
Years ago when it was WU there were no issues. Now that its IBM it's a giant cluster.
Don't plan on anything getting fixed anytime soon. As a matter of fact I would just move on from IBM. I know old habits are hard to break but the old WU will never be back.

Offline SalvatorDatorum

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2020, 09:57:47 AM »
It appears they simply changed the URI where the data can be downloaded and nobody got the memo, or one was never issued on the first place. Doesn't look like they updated most of their own docs, if the links to them aren't entirely dead. Anyway you can find all of the raw data at least via FTP here:
ftp://tgftp.nws.noaa.gov/SL.us008001/DF.of/DC.radar/
The trick is turning those product codes into English, because the docs I've found are for the old location, but as an example here is the lowest elevation 48nm base reflectivity for TRDU Raleigh Durham. I found it basically just checking random directories on there until i found the one that had today's dates on the files
ftp://tgftp.nws.noaa.gov/SL.us008001/DF.of/DC.radar/DS.180z0/SI.trdu/
And sn.last is the most recent upload.
[At least i think it's reflectivity. I'm sitting here pressing wrong buttons all over my phone and have no way of making an image but if I bookmarked it that's probably it. If not then I'll bet it's velocity and reflectivity can't be too far away in the list very confusing especially since the old codes with the old data are still there]

I'm not even sure what format it is but the Weather and Climate Tool can make images out of it anyway, I'm looking into automating it myself but the software has some of the most ancient Unix code I've ever seen and it can be a lot of work just to build it on modern Linux! Well it's either ancient or does not conform to standard POSIX interfaces very well, it may work better on a different Unix but in my world of web app servers anything but Linux may as well not even exist at this point "Damnit Jim I'm a server engineer not a GIS guru!"

So i can figure out the code given enough time but it ain't going to be easy or quick, but it will be free...
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 10:27:30 AM by SalvatorDatorum »

Offline SalvatorDatorum

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2020, 08:59:51 PM »
It appears they simply changed the URI where the data can be downloaded and nobody got the memo, or one was never issued on the first place. Doesn't look like they updated most of their own docs, if the links to them aren't entirely dead. Anyway you can find all of the raw data at least via FTP here:
ftp://tgftp.nws.noaa.gov/SL.us008001/DF.of/DC.radar/
The trick is turning those product codes into English, because the docs I've found are for the old location, but as an example here is the lowest elevation 48nm base reflectivity for TRDU Raleigh Durham. I found it basically just checking random directories on there until i found the one that had today's dates on the files
ftp://tgftp.nws.noaa.gov/SL.us008001/DF.of/DC.radar/DS.180z0/SI.trdu/
And sn.last is the most recent upload.
[At least i think it's reflectivity. I'm sitting here pressing wrong buttons all over my phone and have no way of making an image but if I bookmarked it that's probably it. If not then I'll bet it's velocity and reflectivity can't be too far away in the list very confusing especially since the old codes with the old data are still there]

I'm not even sure what format it is but the Weather and Climate Tool can make images out of it anyway, I'm looking into automating it myself but the software has some of the most ancient Unix code I've ever seen and it can be a lot of work just to build it on modern Linux! Well it's either ancient or does not conform to standard POSIX interfaces very well, it may work better on a different Unix but in my world of web app servers anything but Linux may as well not even exist at this point "Damnit Jim I'm a server engineer not a GIS guru!"

So i can figure out the code given enough time but it ain't going to be easy or quick, but it will be free...
Ok, now that I'm back on a PC with Desktop Java, can confirm that is current data for the lowest elevation (varies between sites) 48nm TDWR, and they are standard, or very nearly standard, NEXRAD Level III data files. I only qualify that because strangely the NOAA Weather and Climate Toolkit does not recognize them as such and reports them as only 'UNKNOWN DATA TYPE', but if you manually select NEXRAD_LEVEL3 from the menu it manages to display them properly. And the example Python decoder using MetPy is broken too. So at least we know why everyone's TDWR feeds and mirrors are broken, because NOAA's links and software tools all are as well....

Well I'll see about fixing them, but, fixing python is never any fun, it's generally easier to borrow something written in a more reasonable language like java and write the rest yourself than to fix Python because it invariably turns into a broken dependency nightmare for any Python code that isn't very very meticulously maintained, and none that I can recall coming across anytime recently is particularly well maintained.

Offline SalvatorDatorum

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2020, 08:19:44 AM »
Anyway not to sound like I was complaining. They are after all still doing the especially difficult and expensive part which is collecting the raw data in the first place and uploading it anywhere; the public facing websites just need a little TLC and it's not like an open source project where anyone can just go give it TLC because they're government systems under government regulations etc. I know from working in private industry it's hard enough keeping your docs up to date when your only "clients" are other developers working at the same company and it's an exponentially harder job when the general public are both your clients AND developers.

Anyway here's a nice image of some recent rain generated by WCT. Sorry everyone stuck in the KATL terminal.  :lol: WCT recognizes some of the radar files but not others, not sure why but I may find out if I end up borrowing its code to make a nexrad-to-image transcoder. Any nexrad3 file over 100 kB usually has something going on... but not a whole lot right now near any airport equipped with TDWR

Footnote re Python i mostly kid, my issues may have been due to Linux being finicky as it often is, and which I often forget.
Oh it does have a zoom function too  :lol:
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 08:24:03 AM by SalvatorDatorum »

Offline SalvatorDatorum

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2020, 12:41:41 PM »
Did manage to get MetPy working. This time I used the Full Anaconda instead of Anaconda Lite to install it and I think that's why it was not working before. I gotta take a short break from this project but hopefully, if I can't set up my own mirror, I'll at least have an easy[er] solution you can install on your own server or Raspberry Pi or whatever and generate what you need yourself... Yeah I'm the server guy not the GIS guy :lol:

dark clouds impending near KMIA
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 12:43:31 PM by SalvatorDatorum »

Offline SalvatorDatorum

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Re: TDWR (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar) appears to be gone for good
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2020, 01:48:17 PM »
More info, keeping a repo for this info with some basic scripts (so far require either NOAA WCT or metpy to render images) at https://github.com/paulyc/Mr.Radar, my workflow at this point basically consists of run fetch_tdwr.sh for the info I want then open it in WCT for a nice radar-overlaid street map. (there is also a https mirror, same hostname/paths, may be helpful as I believe some browsers don't even support FTP anymore)

Here are all of the product codes I have been able to determine that are being continuously updated:
Code: [Select]
* 141md = NEXRAD Level-III Digital Mesocyclone Detection Algorithm
* 152rs = Radar Status Log
* 180z0 = 48nm Low Elevation Base Reflectivity
* 180z1 = 48nm Mid Elevation Base Reflectivity
* 180z2 = 48nm High Elevation Base Reflectivity
* 182v0 = 48nm Low Elevation Base Radial Velocity
* 182v1 = 48nm Mid Elevation Base Radial Velocity
* 182v2 = 48nm High Elevation Base Radial Velocity
* 186zl = 225nm Low Elevation Base Reflectivity
* 32dhr = 124nm (?) Digital Hybrid Scan Reflectivity
* 48vwp = VAD Wind Profile
* 57vil = 48nm Vertically Integrated Liquid
* 58sti = Storm Tracking
* 61tvs = Tornado Vortex Signature
* 78ohp = 225nm One Hour Precipitation
* 80stp = 225nm Storm Total Precipitation
* p2gsm = NEXRAD Level-III General Status Message
* p37cr = 124nm Composite Reflectivity
* p41et = 124nm Echo Tops
* p59hi = Hail Index
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 02:02:44 PM by SalvatorDatorum »

 

anything