Author Topic: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array  (Read 6112 times)

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Offline Mapantz

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #100 on: December 22, 2019, 11:15:49 AM »
I use no smart items/assistants as I have no use for the, as I expect many others don't as well It leads me back to my first post regarding this; they should have implemented a way of controlling the heater via the temp sensor that comes with the WS-80.

Why make a product like this and expect the majority of people to go out and buy additional (expensive) items to get part of the hardware to work as intended? I may have just about understood if Ecowitt sold something separately to cover this, but they don't, which means you have to go somewhere else just to use it properly. Very silly.


Offline Mapantz

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #101 on: December 22, 2019, 11:21:07 AM »
It also surprised me a bit. I expected the heater to turn on automatically. However, there is such a recommendation in the manual:

Quote
Theres a built-in heat plate in the 6-in-1 sensor package body, if the lowest
temperature at your place is below -3C, or 26.6F, and the weather is
mostly snowy or rainy, then you may need to activate the heater by
supplying a 5V/1A power to the sensor heating element for melting
accumulated snow or ice, which can influence wind measurement accuracy
significantly.

Quote
When outdoor temperature is above 10.0C ( 50.0F), it is forbidden to
feed power to the heating thermostat which can lead to permanent
damage due to excessive heat built up inside and cause unpredictable
damage to the system itself or data accuracy.

Wow - that second paragraph says it all...

I'll give you an example; Many times the forecast has said that sub-zero temps are unlikely overnight here. You go to bed and wake up to find that the temp has gotten down below -3. So, if you decide to turn it on before you go to bed and then you go out for the day and forget to turn it off, and them temp goes above 10C, you're stuffed!

Having no safety measures in place to stop that happening is just plain stupid.


Offline mark014

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #102 on: December 22, 2019, 05:50:39 PM »
Now when I am looking at the measurements of the ultrasonic anemometer with minimal gusts and wind speed, I can see 3.6, 3.2, 2.9, 2.5, 2.2, 1.8 km / h.
1.8 km / h seems to be the lowest value  that can be detected.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2019, 05:56:00 PM by mark014 »

Offline fkapp

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #103 on: December 22, 2019, 05:55:54 PM »
How does that compare with the traditional cups anemometer in terms of lowest speed that can be recorded?

Offline CW2274

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #104 on: December 22, 2019, 06:05:28 PM »
How does that compare with the traditional cups anemometer in terms of lowest speed that can be recorded?
Basically the same, at least with the VP2. It will register 1mph/1.6kph.

Offline mark014

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #105 on: December 22, 2019, 06:17:38 PM »
Nevertheless, the WS-68 sensor better shows the subtle changes in the weakest wind, with the data updated on the console less frequently - every 16.5 seconds.

In the same calm weather, the WS68 sensor returns following wind speed values: 2.9, 2.2, 1.8, 1.4, 1.1, 0.7, 0.4 km/h.

Offline fkapp

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #106 on: December 22, 2019, 06:41:20 PM »
So in effect a wash. .75 MPH delta vs 14 seconds lag in update.
Seems like WS68 has WS80 beat.
Thanks

Offline Shvedi

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #107 on: December 23, 2019, 02:56:58 AM »
I'll give you an example; Many times the forecast has said that sub-zero temps are unlikely overnight here. You go to bed and wake up to find that the temp has gotten down below -3. So, if you decide to turn it on before you go to bed and then you go out for the day and forget to turn it off, and them temp goes above 10C, you're stuffed!

Having no safety measures in place to stop that happening is just plain stupid.

How about a smart flug and IFTTT?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 02:58:53 AM by Shvedi »

Offline Mandrake

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #108 on: December 23, 2019, 03:33:54 AM »
So in effect a wash. .75 MPH delta vs 14 seconds lag in update.
Seems like WS68 has WS80 beat.
Thanks

I don't understand that reasoning?
So a sensor that reads down to a much lower level in terms of sensitivity and updates far quicker is worse than the traditional cup sensor?
I have seen days here where my Tri-Wing sensor has been recording zero wind as its so light and my WS80 has been happily recording 1-2Mph wind.
Very Old Maplin N96Y/FO Weather station

Ecowitt HP2550A (Wunderground: IGUILDFO67)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Wunderground: IGUILDFO68)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Mk2) test environment
Ecowitt WH51 Soil Moisture Sensor
Ecowitt WH41 PM2.5 AQM Sensor
Ecowitt WH31 Thermo/Hygro Sensor
Ecowitt WS80 Ultrasonic Anemometer (pre-prod test)
Ecowitt WH57 Lightning Sensor (pre-prod test)

Offline mauro63

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #109 on: December 23, 2019, 05:49:04 AM »
About ws80 heater question, I hope this can be useful  ;)
Mauro

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Offline Da9L

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #110 on: December 23, 2019, 07:39:47 AM »
I'm actually quite pleased to see that this is becoming a thing. The ultrasonic wind sensor was one of the reasons i fell for Netatmo back in the day, but their solution is so imprecise, that it was downright unusable for me.

Since i just got my froggit weather station its great to hear that this can be connected to the DP1500 if i understand it correctly.

Could be interesting to compare this to the Netatmo anemometer that i aldready have.

Offline Mandrake

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #111 on: December 23, 2019, 01:33:39 PM »
yes, the WS80 will work with the DP1500 with no problem.
If you have both sensor arrays (normal and WS80) you will automatically get the wind data etc from the WS80 unless you choose to disable it in the WS-View app (sensor ID) settings page
The rain will continue to be provide by the rain gauge on the normal sensor array.
Very Old Maplin N96Y/FO Weather station

Ecowitt HP2550A (Wunderground: IGUILDFO67)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Wunderground: IGUILDFO68)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Mk2) test environment
Ecowitt WH51 Soil Moisture Sensor
Ecowitt WH41 PM2.5 AQM Sensor
Ecowitt WH31 Thermo/Hygro Sensor
Ecowitt WS80 Ultrasonic Anemometer (pre-prod test)
Ecowitt WH57 Lightning Sensor (pre-prod test)

Offline GHammer

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #112 on: December 25, 2019, 02:07:04 PM »
It also surprised me a bit. I expected the heater to turn on automatically. However, there is such a recommendation in the manual:

Quote
Theres a built-in heat plate in the 6-in-1 sensor package body, if the lowest
temperature at your place is below -3C, or 26.6F, and the weather is
mostly snowy or rainy, then you may need to activate the heater by
supplying a 5V/1A power to the sensor heating element for melting
accumulated snow or ice, which can influence wind measurement accuracy
significantly.

Quote
When outdoor temperature is above 10.0C ( 50.0F), it is forbidden to
feed power to the heating thermostat which can lead to permanent
damage due to excessive heat built up inside and cause unpredictable
damage to the system itself or data accuracy.

Wow - that second paragraph says it all...

I'll give you an example; Many times the forecast has said that sub-zero temps are unlikely overnight here. You go to bed and wake up to find that the temp has gotten down below -3. So, if you decide to turn it on before you go to bed and then you go out for the day and forget to turn it off, and them temp goes above 10C, you're stuffed!

Having no safety measures in place to stop that happening is just plain stupid.

Would you know if it were going to snow/sleet? That's the only time I'd care about a heater.
IFTTT ought to work fine with a smart plug.

Seems a petty thing to work with for the excellent capabilities.

Offline mark014

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #113 on: December 31, 2019, 03:16:59 PM »
I uploaded a short video to show real-time readings presented on the display console that is provided with HP2553 weather station:


Offline Mapantz

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #114 on: December 31, 2019, 04:11:47 PM »
I uploaded a short video to show real-time readings presented on the display console that is provided with HP2553 weather station:


It's nice to see the wind readings being updated as frequent as that - can't beat it! When the weather is vile outside, and you're indoors with a mug of coffee watching a Davis station's wind speed update every 2.5 seconds, it makes me feel all warm and cosy.  :lol:


Offline Ken7

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #115 on: January 03, 2020, 02:47:45 PM »
heh - that looks familiar!

if I understood well, you can confirm same problem?
so, the ultrasonic wind sensor inside the ws80 is absolutely not good in very strong environmental situations?
this is not a good news

Mauro

I don't have the WS-80 but I can confirm that the same thing happened to two different models of ultrasonic anemometer I owned.

I own the Weatherflow system and it too had the same problem with wind speed under heavy rain. However a modification was made to the surface of the plate right below the ultrasonic sensors. The problem is now totally gone in heavy rain. Winds are accurate under any condition. So the issue is that the plate under the sensors is often very smooth. Weatherflow went to a rough texture that solved the issue.

However accurate rainfall is another story. This is still almost useless.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 02:50:28 PM by Ken7 »

Offline mark014

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #116 on: January 05, 2020, 08:27:27 AM »
Here you can see how WS-80 anemometer works with a small HP3501 display console:

However still HP3501 console does not upload your readings coming from WS-80 on weather servers including ecowitt.net.


Both anemometers (WS68 upper and WS80 lower one) on the same pole over the rooftop (around 8-9 m over the ground).

Yesterday as the cold front passed, a wind got stronger and I could trace the WS80 measurements of wind gusts during light rain. I hoped it would rain harder, but it didn't happen. Either way, as you can see, the sonic anemometer again brought higher values than the traditional one with vanes.

Here a graph based on WS80 ultrasonic anemometer data:

maximum gust 59.4 km/h

WS68 anemometer:

maximum gust 51.5 km/h

Half an kilometer away, another integrated weather station is located at a nearby resort next to the beach at the lake. Placed at a height of about 5 meters. With western wind there are no major obstacles to the wind and this should be measured correctly in such a situation. As you can see, this station measured a maximum gust of only 51.5 km/h.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 09:03:36 AM by mark014 »

Offline Mapantz

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #117 on: January 05, 2020, 08:36:23 AM »

I own the Weatherflow system and it too had the same problem with wind speed under heavy rain. However a modification was made to the surface of the plate right below the ultrasonic sensors. The problem is now totally gone in heavy rain. Winds are accurate under any condition. So the issue is that the plate under the sensors is often very smooth. Weatherflow went to a rough texture that solved the issue.

However accurate rainfall is another story. This is still almost useless.


I had a weatherflow station too. My first anemometer failed badly after a month. A second was sent out and then the problems started with rainfall. A third ultrasonic anemometer was sent out to me for free with the new hydrophilic coating added it. It started off OK, and then the same problem occurred on that too. You can see my posts about it on their forum. In the end, I got fed up with it and sold everything on eBay.

I certainly won't back their new system, as I believe they've gone backwards with it.

Their customer service is excellent, but if you take a look at forum reports, they sent out A LOT of replacements due to failures.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 08:38:48 AM by Mapantz »


Offline Ken7

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #118 on: January 05, 2020, 12:03:59 PM »

I own the Weatherflow system and it too had the same problem with wind speed under heavy rain. However a modification was made to the surface of the plate right below the ultrasonic sensors. The problem is now totally gone in heavy rain. Winds are accurate under any condition. So the issue is that the plate under the sensors is often very smooth. Weatherflow went to a rough texture that solved the issue.

However accurate rainfall is another story. This is still almost useless.

I had a weatherflow station too. My first anemometer failed badly after a month. A second was sent out and then the problems started with rainfall. A third ultrasonic anemometer was sent out to me for free with the new hydrophilic coating added it. It started off OK, and then the same problem occurred on that too. You can see my posts about it on their forum. In the end, I got fed up with it and sold everything on eBay.

I certainly won't back their new system, as I believe they've gone backwards with it.

Their customer service is excellent, but if you take a look at forum reports, they sent out A LOT of replacements due to failures.

I'd agree their customer service is second to none. Very nice people to deal with and I value that. Where I disagree with you is I think they're making every attempt to improve their product and I've seen it first-hand. Weather seals on the Sky's solar accessory have been improved and new units are not prone to water intrusion. This is reflected in the design of the upcoming Tempest unit.

There was an issue that I had with the Air. I pointed this out to them and it involved a correlation between temperature and barometric pressure that shouldn't have been. As temperature increased, barometric pressure rose rapidly in direct response. This resulted in wild pressure fluctuations that were extremely inaccurate. Not all units were impacted, but when I pointed it out to them they did go back to the manufacturer who addressed it and the new units no longer have the problem. My replacement unit is performing flawlessly.

Otherwise all other parameters are matching very well with my FA Davis VP2. In fact humidity measurements on the Air are better than my Davis, as my Davis is affected by the well-known issue with Davis humidity sensors that are not handled properly during manufacture. My wind measurements are also better on the Sky than they are on the Davis since the new surface coating was introduced on the Sky. The Sky picks up quick gusts as well as low level winds that are both often missed entirely by the Davis.

The only problem I have remaining with my WeatherFlow is the rain measurements. At this point it looks like it's inherent in the ultrasonic design, at least as it's implemented in the Sky. I wish, as do many other owners, that they would offer a tipper that could be integrated into the system. That would make the system near perfect. We'll see if there is any improvement in this area with the Tempest.

I have backed them for the new Tempest unit as I believe in the company. I'm looking forward to its introduction. From what I've seen, even the current Sky/Air units are more accurate for most parameters than the Ambient/Ecowitt/Fine Offset units. I find a stated accuracy of +/- 2 degrees to be unacceptable at this price point. The barometric pressure accuracy also seems to be significantly worse on these units (+/- .08" Hg) than the WeatherFlow.

I also tend to value more frequent wind updates on the WeatherFlow system than the new Ultrasonic Ambient/Ecowitt units. With all that said, I'd give these new units a look if the reports here are good and the specs are simply very conservative and the actual accuracy turns out to be much better. I've always got an open mind, willing to explore new units, since weather is a hobby and is actually my education. :)

Offline stratus13

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #119 on: January 14, 2020, 12:33:36 PM »
It looks pretty good, but it's baffled me as to why they had to stick a temperature sensor on it?

It looks like temperature compensation is required for accurate measurements.  And as has recently been noted on another thread, if you use the GW-1000 you have the option of selecting which sensors to use or ignore. Just turn off the WS-80 temp/humidity  and turn on a ground level unit. That changed my opinion rather quickly.

Interesting, can I do something similar with the 2551 display?

thanks

Offline Mandrake

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #120 on: January 14, 2020, 12:54:27 PM »
If you have a HP2251 display and a WS80 then yes you will get the fast update of wind displayed.
Very Old Maplin N96Y/FO Weather station

Ecowitt HP2550A (Wunderground: IGUILDFO67)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Wunderground: IGUILDFO68)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Mk2) test environment
Ecowitt WH51 Soil Moisture Sensor
Ecowitt WH41 PM2.5 AQM Sensor
Ecowitt WH31 Thermo/Hygro Sensor
Ecowitt WS80 Ultrasonic Anemometer (pre-prod test)
Ecowitt WH57 Lightning Sensor (pre-prod test)

Offline stratus13

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #121 on: January 14, 2020, 01:47:34 PM »
If you have a HP2251 display and a WS80 then yes you will get the fast update of wind displayed.
Thanks Mandrake, just got the answer on page 4 of this thread as well (was a long one ot read...) :)

w.r.t. the heater, i'll use a smart plug... With Montreal's yoyo weather I prefer to be able to turn ON/OFF from my phone...


Offline raffaello.dimartino

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #122 on: January 15, 2020, 01:08:15 AM »
I use no smart items/assistants as I have no use for the, as I expect many others don't as well It leads me back to my first post regarding this; they should have implemented a way of controlling the heater via the temp sensor that comes with the WS-80.

Why make a product like this and expect the majority of people to go out and buy additional (expensive) items to get part of the hardware to work as intended? I may have just about understood if Ecowitt sold something separately to cover this, but they don't, which means you have to go somewhere else just to use it properly. Very silly.

You're right, it is the moment to have a wifi relay that works with the data coming from the weather station.
With this relay you can command solar tends, the WS80's heater, water pumps and so on. Ecowitt could begin to think about this.
I have a similar things done with weewx and an ethernet relay.


Offline Mandrake

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #123 on: January 15, 2020, 03:57:54 AM »
You maybe surprised how much of the time you can run without a heater.
I know Montreal is somewhat colder than Southern England, but I have not seen any drops in performance due to rain or cold yet since installing the sensor in August.
I am genuinely impressed in its performance and mine is not even the final production model.
Very Old Maplin N96Y/FO Weather station

Ecowitt HP2550A (Wunderground: IGUILDFO67)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Wunderground: IGUILDFO68)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Mk2) test environment
Ecowitt WH51 Soil Moisture Sensor
Ecowitt WH41 PM2.5 AQM Sensor
Ecowitt WH31 Thermo/Hygro Sensor
Ecowitt WS80 Ultrasonic Anemometer (pre-prod test)
Ecowitt WH57 Lightning Sensor (pre-prod test)

Offline stratus13

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Re: WS-80 Ultrasonic Wind sensor array
« Reply #124 on: January 15, 2020, 08:03:24 AM »
Intent is to run it mainly on snowy days instead of cold Days because it's below -3C for 3-4 months in a row here, don't want to run it all the time.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 08:05:21 AM by stratus13 »