Author Topic: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale  (Read 558 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nincehelser

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3101
Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« on: June 24, 2019, 08:34:08 AM »
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-4-on-sale-now-from-35

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Offline DoctorKnow

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1560
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2019, 09:12:39 AM »
Someone should program it and then sell it on the big "E" store for different popular stations.

Offline galfert

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2409
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2019, 09:18:34 AM »
Great news. Saw that this morning and people are very excited about this.

Some notable Improvements:
- Ethernet is now truly Gigabit as before it was limited by USB bus.
- USB 3 ports instead of just USB 2, and since power is delivered via USB-C there is more power without needing a hub
- dual monitor support includes 4K video
- more RAM options
- CPU is 2x to 4x faster depending on task
- supports 4K H265 decoding
- compatible with all old HATs
- now supports Bluetooth 5

Some Cons:
- You'll need special micro HDMI cable or adapter dongle
- Old Raspberry Pi case may not work unless you cut out port section with a Dremel leaving large hole on side
- still no built in power button (you can add one though)
- WiFi is still just AC speed (no WiFi 6)
- still uses SD card for OS which have limited durability and reliability when used to run *nux OSs

But it is welcome and unexpected upgrade since it had been announced that there would be no new Pi until 2020. What happened is that things went so well in development that what would have been a beta version turned out to be more than good enough to be final production version.  But I think there was a lot of pressure to come out with this sooner than later because of so many other competitors like Rockchip that had more RAM and USB 3, Gigabit Ethernet, 4K...etc.
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline Bushman

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 7296
    • Eagle Bay Weather
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2019, 09:55:25 AM »
The SD card for the OS is still the biggest stumbling block to this becoming a desktop replacement IMO.  You'd think with 4 GB of RAM option they'd allow some to be reserved for the OS.
Need low cost IP monitoring?  http://wirelesstag.net/wta.aspx?link=NisJxz6FhUa4V67/cwCRWA or PM me for 50% off Wirelesstags!!

Offline mcrossley

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 431
    • Wilmslow Astro
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2019, 10:27:15 AM »
The SD card for the OS is still the biggest stumbling block to this becoming a desktop replacement IMO.  You'd think with 4 GB of RAM option they'd allow some to be reserved for the OS.
But like the Pi 3 I guess it will boot from an SSD/HDD as well.
Mark

Offline galfert

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2409
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2019, 12:58:15 PM »
Using an SSD via the USB port then means no TRIM support. Eventually performance will be awful and unbearable. They need to add an M.2 NVMe connector.
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline nincehelser

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3101
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2019, 04:07:18 PM »
Using an SSD via the USB port then means no TRIM support. Eventually performance will be awful and unbearable. They need to add an M.2 NVMe connector.

Not true.  UAS (USB Attached SCSI) can be implemented to support TRIM.

Also, the garbage collection of newer SSDs covers a lot of ground, so TRIM isn't essential.  It's nice to have if your OS supports it, but it's not a critically needed feature in most situations.

Offline Bushman

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 7296
    • Eagle Bay Weather
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2019, 05:29:16 PM »
Using an SSD via the USB port then means no TRIM support. Eventually performance will be awful and unbearable. They need to add an M.2 NVMe connector.

A piggyback card that does this would be nice. https://www.newegg.com/p/0VN-006F-00039?Description=m.2%20adapter%20usb&cm_re=m.2_adapter_usb-_-9SIA6V88SG2944-_-Product
Need low cost IP monitoring?  http://wirelesstag.net/wta.aspx?link=NisJxz6FhUa4V67/cwCRWA or PM me for 50% off Wirelesstags!!

Offline nincehelser

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3101
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2019, 05:29:38 PM »
The SD card for the OS is still the biggest stumbling block to this becoming a desktop replacement IMO.  You'd think with 4 GB of RAM option they'd allow some to be reserved for the OS.
But like the Pi 3 I guess it will boot from an SSD/HDD as well.

IIRC that still requires an SD card for the bootloader, no?

Pi 3 and above don't require an SD card to boot from USB. 

You did need an SD card on 1 and 2.

Offline galfert

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2409
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2019, 05:38:46 PM »
Using an SSD via the USB port then means no TRIM support. Eventually performance will be awful and unbearable. They need to add an M.2 NVMe connector.

Not true.  UAS (USB Attached SCSI) can be implemented to support TRIM.

Also, the garbage collection of newer SSDs covers a lot of ground, so TRIM isn't essential.  It's nice to have if your OS supports it, but it's not a critically needed feature in most situations.


In theory you are correct. But in practice I've not yet seen an external enclosure and adapter that supports TRIM via USB. The requirements are that you not only have UASP but that the adapter controllers translate the SCSI UNMAP command through the USB-SATA bridge to ATA TRIM. I have seen some USB-C enclosures with NVMe support that allow TRIM to work. So other alternative would be that a future Raspberry Pi support USB-C for expansion with extra USB-C ports. I'm reading that the new USB-C port can be used as both a host and a device, so perhaps with some OTG adapter you can provide power and also become a host at the same time....or just get power instead via PoE freeing up the USB-C port.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 07:16:42 PM by galfert »
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline nincehelser

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3101
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2019, 06:05:48 PM »
Using an SSD via the USB port then means no TRIM support. Eventually performance will be awful and unbearable. They need to add an M.2 NVMe connector.

Not true.  UAS (USB Attached SCSI) can be implemented to support TRIM.

Also, the garbage collection of newer SSDs covers a lot of ground, so TRIM isn't essential.  It's nice to have if your OS supports it, but it's not a critically needed feature in most situations.


In theory your are correct. But in practice I've not yet seen an external enclosure and adapter that supports TRIM via USB. The requirements are that you not only have UASP but that the adapter controllers translate the SCSI UNMAP command through the USB-SATA bridge to ATA TRIM. I have seen some USB-C enclosures with NVMe support that allow TRIM to work. So other alternative would be that a future Raspberry Pi support USB-C for expansion with extra USB-C ports. I'm reading that the new USB-C port can be used as both a host and a device, so perhaps with some OTG adapter you can provide power and also become a host at the same time....or just get power instead via PoE freeing up the USB-C port.

I guess I've been hallucinating, then.   :roll:

Offline mcrossley

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 431
    • Wilmslow Astro
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2019, 02:35:23 AM »
Using an SSD via the USB port then means no TRIM support. Eventually performance will be awful and unbearable.
Depends when "eventually" is!

My Pi 2 has been running for 2.5 years on a small USB SSD. It hosts my weather software, two web sites, and a MySQL database. I can detect no falloff in performance thus far. Sure it will fail eventually - all drives do, but it is far superior to using an SD card which my Pi's seem to munch fairly regularly.
Mark

Offline lightmaster

  • MB-HWS Template Dev
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 302
    • Baxley,GA Weather
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2019, 04:17:24 AM »
Using an SSD via the USB port then means no TRIM support. Eventually performance will be awful and unbearable. They need to add an M.2 NVMe connector.

Not true.  UAS (USB Attached SCSI) can be implemented to support TRIM.

Also, the garbage collection of newer SSDs covers a lot of ground, so TRIM isn't essential.  It's nice to have if your OS supports it, but it's not a critically needed feature in most situations.


In theory you are correct. But in practice I've not yet seen an external enclosure and adapter that supports TRIM via USB. The requirements are that you not only have UASP but that the adapter controllers translate the SCSI UNMAP command through the USB-SATA bridge to ATA TRIM. I have seen some USB-C enclosures with NVMe support that allow TRIM to work. So other alternative would be that a future Raspberry Pi support USB-C for expansion with extra USB-C ports. I'm reading that the new USB-C port can be used as both a host and a device, so perhaps with some OTG adapter you can provide power and also become a host at the same time....or just get power instead via PoE freeing up the USB-C port.

Anyone know if it supports HDMI/video over the USB-C, I couldn't find any info online about that. I ordered the NexDock 2, in theory RPi4 could work with just a USB-C connected between them if it does have HDMI over USB-C.

Offline galfert

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2409
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2019, 12:11:37 PM »
I have not found any information regarding HDMI over USB-C. But I've posted the question in the Pi forum. I'm sure someone will answer it soon. I'll update this thread if I get an answer.

Regarding booting up without the SD on the new Pi 4 it seems this will not be available initially over USB 3.0. This information is not clear so perhaps it is only in reference to USB 3.0 and it may still boot via USB 2.0 ports.

The following quote taken from:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1560/1473/files/Inside_Raspberry_Pi_4.pdf?2142
Quote
BOOTUP NEWS: ONBOARD EEPROM
The Pi 4 has an onboard 4 Mbit (=512 KByte) EEPROM, which currently contains the second stage bootloader.
This bootloader can be updated for future boot scenarios. At launch it is likely that the Pi 4 will not be able to
boot over USB 3.0 / GBit Ethernet, etc. This EEPROM will ensure that Pi owners will benefit from changes in the
boot code.
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline Bushman

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 7296
    • Eagle Bay Weather
Need low cost IP monitoring?  http://wirelesstag.net/wta.aspx?link=NisJxz6FhUa4V67/cwCRWA or PM me for 50% off Wirelesstags!!

Offline galfert

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2409
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2019, 02:33:25 PM »
Anyone know if it supports HDMI/video over the USB-C, I couldn't find any info online about that. I ordered the NexDock 2, in theory RPi4 could work with just a USB-C connected between them if it does have HDMI over USB-C.

Okay found an answer. This Pi employee, engineer and forum moderator said no to video from the USB-C port.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=243372&start=125#p1484189
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline pfletch101

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
    • Personal Website
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2019, 11:46:29 AM »
The SD card for the OS is still the biggest stumbling block to this becoming a desktop replacement IMO.  You'd think with 4 GB of RAM option they'd allow some to be reserved for the OS.
But like the Pi 3 I guess it will boot from an SSD/HDD as well.
Currently only with pre-boot code on an SD card (unlike the 3B+, which has true USB boot as standard), but true USB boot capability should be available  for the 4B as a user-installable upgrade, soon.
Vantage Pro 2+ with WeatherLink - data incorporated in domestic energy production (PV) and use monitoring system.

Offline mcrossley

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 431
    • Wilmslow Astro
Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Now on Sale
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2019, 11:59:06 AM »
That's not so bad, its not like that SD card will get hammered.
Mark

 

anything