Author Topic: New WS-2902A reception issues  (Read 4414 times)

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Offline kbellis

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2018, 08:25:43 PM »
Thanks for the great description/ visualization.

Mark's original issue had me thinking about making a corner reflector, and further, suggesting to Ed that the antenna be relocated to the underside of the array (as originally suggested by Mark's brother), and adding a rotating corner reflector that could be directed towards the user's display console.

Offline Sadpanda

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2019, 12:41:42 PM »
Question first then back story:

Instead of giant Yagi, would it be possible to add another coiled antenna or simple wire antenna to the 'ant2' pad?  Will the two interfere?  The ant2 has two pads, would a coiled 1/4 wave even work?  Which pad would you solder to?

One possible very simple solution would be to flip the board over so the antenna is on bottom...  A well placed hole and some creative plastic transplant/welding may be in order to keep things water tight.

Thanks!

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Back story:

When I received my array and IP receiver I did not know about the reception issues.  After initial unboxing I had the receiver hanging in the middle of my house, second story (coiled antenna pretty much horizontal, 7ft high) and then took the array outside looking for a good mounting point.  To avoid trees and structures I decided to pole mounting to the top of my single story barn.  I left the array sitting in the back of a golf cart for a few days to make sure it would work.  I purposefully left it an additional 10-12ft further away just to make sure...  I had no signal loss for over a week, WITH alkaline batteries, freezing temperatures, rain, frost etc.

I finally mounted the array to a galvanized pole above the barn.  The final height put it 3ft-4 below the receiver and around 235 ft away.  I lost connectivity.  I went back out and took the array off of the mount and I regained signal.  Holding the array in my hand at installed height, things seemed to work but when I put it on the pole, nothing.

I contacted tech support and they gave me the lithium battery/other device interference BS.  I changed the batteries and nothing.  I finally moved the IP receiver to an exterior wall, in a window, 225 ft away, same height, hanging again so antenna horizontal.  With this setup I would have data for a few days then nothing for a few.  At one point I had data for 15 days straight.

I contacted tech support again they refused to send a new receiver but did send a new array. 

Once the array did arrive, I added a 1ft PVC conduit extension to the pole before swapping the new array over, just in case that really was the issue...  No real difference. I would have data for a few days then nothing.  Finally I tried taping the receiver to the window so the antenna was oriented vertically. YAHTZEE!  I ended up buying a suction cup tray from amazon and have had no data drop out since, fingers crossed.

Aside from low transmitter power, I believe my issues are due to signal combing and antenna placement.

Offline danoh

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2019, 02:15:05 PM »
ANT2 pads didn't do much for me, use the actual antenna coil connecting point on the other side of the board
Ambient Weather station CWOP connector: AmbientCWOP.com

Offline galfert

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2019, 02:16:38 PM »
Antenna coming out of the bottom is an idea that has been mentioned before. I think it is a good idea to more easily make water tight. I haven't seen anyone pull it off yet...no reports. As for ANT2 connection it might work, but do a PCB line trace to be sure. You can try a continuity test with a multimeter if you can't visibly follow the trace. While you are at it get some more photos of the PCB and get both sides and share them.

This is the only other thread with pictures that I remember seeing and they are a bit blurry. Still no shot of the other side.
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35893.0

EDIT: found this other link with pictures in this thread. Based on these pictures the coiled antenna is on the opposite side of ANT2 so that's not promising that they are the same:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35470.msg366703#msg366703

« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 02:43:11 PM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge (WeatherBridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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Offline Sir_MAK

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2019, 06:52:46 AM »
The Osprey is sold in many countries and some have different types of radios in them.  I am wondering if the ant2 is for a different radio type and is not actually used in the US units.  I noticed that there are numerous components missing from the PCB in that area.
Ambient WS-2000, Central Ohio - WU WC
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WS-2902, Lake Erie   -    WU WC

Offline ws03

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2019, 01:04:12 PM »
Just installed 2902A two days ago on roof, 2-by wood construction.

In order to debug my reception/signal strength problem, it would help to have
a clearer measurement of "signal strength".

the console display "5 bars"  seems only to be an indication of how long ago a successful update occurred (based on display timeout expectations),
i.e.,  5 bars= within the last 16 seconds; 4--> 32 seconds ago, 3--> 48; 2--> 64; 1--> 80 seconds

This doesn't really speak to how many timeouts there have been, say, over the last hour (it could have been
perfect except for the last 1.5 minutes; or it could have been out for hours... if there are zero bars).
It doesn't represent the legitimate signal strength, rather a misleading counter of timeouts.

I assume it's a digital packet transmitted, but surely they have ECC error code correction?
The support person admitted that the manual does not describe this well, and sadly was unable to offer any further details.

It's particularly worrisome during rain, when dipper counts are missed, other stats are less critical in that respect.

The labeling in the manual would be helpful to refer to this as RF signal loss occurrences, not to be confused with Wireless Wi-Fi.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 01:10:56 PM by ws03 »

Offline ALEEF02

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #56 on: May 14, 2019, 04:02:59 PM »
I was wondering, how can I increase the range at the console? I usually lose about 30% of my packets and want to increase the range. But, I don't want to screw with the actual weather station, I just want to add an antenna or something on the console

Offline MeadowlarkField

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2019, 06:10:47 PM »
I was looking back through older threads and wanted to add a comment on this one. I have been running a WS-1401IP station for 2+ years. First, humidity sensor failed and then connectivity with ObserverIP became intermittent. The connection was actually good at night but not during the day (because it was running on batteries and not solar panel?) I considered just replacing the sensor array with WS-2902 but after reading about the WS-2000 system I decided to go for the whole package (which uses the WS-2902 Array).

The connection from the WS-2902 to both the display console WS-2000 and to the ObserverIP (not needed for WS-2000 but I am using for temporary tests) is great. The sensor is mounted on a 10' metal pole bolted to wooden fencepost in the middle of a barren field. A couple trees near the house but clear line of site to the console and to the ObserverIP. The measured distance on Google Earth is 430'. Display is not showing dropped packets ("signal strength" display) and the graphs on Ambient Weather dashboard show continuous data with no holes.

I know this is an optimal configuration - no walls, no water, no LED's, etc. but I wanted to share with groups since my mileage is different from what I see on this thread. It is a recent purchase/install so possibly hardware/QC improvements? or firmware fixes? But so far, after two weeks, I am pleased with connection and performance with WS-2000 and WS-2902 Array.

Hope this helps.

Offline cneuman

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2019, 06:25:51 PM »
@MeadowlarkField can you confirm which array you have?

I noticed the Ecowitt page sells a two-sided array while the 2902A pictured on Ambient's site is three sided.

I wonder if there is any difference in performance between these variations?

Offline galfert

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2019, 08:52:04 PM »
There is no difference between the two sided and the 3 sided array sensor as far as sensor performance. The difference is in how the two sided may do better in the snow because there is less chance for snow built up. The anemometer end is little bit thinner on the two sided version. 

But be forewarned that the two sided is only available through Ecowitt. This means that you end up with an Ecowitt sensor and therefore you then only can have Ecowitt consoles. The Ambient console may appeal to people interested in uploading to Ambientweather.net instead of to Ecowitt.net. Although the two are very similar, for now only Ambientweather.net has an API that several services and applications that are possible because of it.

Some of the Ambientweather.net API extra features are:
- Amazon Alexa
- Google Assistant
- Some mobile apps
- Weather templates that pull data from this
- Weather-Display software can use it as a data source
- various other ideas out there that I've probably not stumbled on that use it as a data source

The Ecowitt.net service though I think looks nicer with its dark theme and extra high/low graph stuff and a world map to see other Ecowitt stations. Ecowitt said that they are working on their own API but it will be a long time before it is available. Even then we don't know if it will be 100% compatible with the software and solutions that are already available with Ambientweather.net.

The bottom line is this....If you have an Ambient Sensor you can have both an Ambient console and an Ecowitt console. I have both so I can publish data to both Ambientweather.net and Ecowiit.net from each respective console using the same outdoor sensor array. I started with an Ambient station and added just the Ecowitt GW1000 console.....I could add another Ecowitt console if I wanted like an HP3500 which looks interesting.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 06:05:15 AM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge (WeatherBridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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Offline MeadowlarkField

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #60 on: August 08, 2019, 11:25:59 AM »
The sensor array I am using is the WS-2902 from Ambient Weather with three sides ( https://www.ambientweather.com/amws2902array.html ) The arm with the wind direction sensor points nearly directly at the console (if we are thinking about propagation patterns.)

Hope this helps.

Offline galfert

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2019, 12:37:26 PM »
I would like to add to my prior comment where I said Ecowitt console will not upload to Ambientweather.net.  There is a workaround to get an Ecowitt or other Fine Offset clone that is not Ambient console to upload to Ambientweather.net. The way to accomplish this is to use a Meteobridge with Ambientweather.net license ($150 add-on)...or to use a WeatherBridge which already has this license as that is Ambient's version of the Meteobridge. The Meteobridge will not connect directly to any Ecowitt console. You'll need a GW1000 (or you can also use an ObserverIP but not recommended) to send data to the Meteobridge (or to a WeatherBridge). Doing this gets you an Ecowitt station and console with the ability to send to both Ecowitt and Ambientweather.net. I'm just mentioning this for completeness of my prior statement on this thread.

* UPDATE - March 2020 - Ambientweather.net license for Meteobridge has new lower price, now just $100
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 09:46:36 AM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge (WeatherBridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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Offline draftpunk

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #62 on: June 21, 2020, 05:46:05 PM »
I just wanted to share reception issues and a resolution Iíve had. About 1 month ago my WS-2902A started missing a lot of packets and eventually the receiver was seeing nothing. This was after about 1.5 years of no noticeable reception issues at all. Re-locating the receiver helped but was too inconvenient a location for me. So I followed danoh and otherís lead and wired in a Yagi antenna. I first opened up the array and noticed how tiny the antenna is. Not a coil but a 1 cm wire. That seems pitiful. It might have been enough to replace that with a small coil but I didnít have one and I already had the Yagi. I was able to use the unused ground pad from ANT 2 and removed the original antenna altogether. It was a tedious job but it will now penetrate my entire house and a brick wall from 100 ft out so Iím happy.

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« Last Edit: June 21, 2020, 07:06:14 PM by galfert »

Offline ALEEF02

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #63 on: June 21, 2020, 06:11:47 PM »
Awesome! Thinking of doing something like this soon as well.

Offline StephenR0

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #64 on: June 21, 2020, 06:17:00 PM »
I just wanted to share reception issues and a resolution Iíve had. About 1 month ago my WS-2902A started missing a lot of packets and eventually the receiver was seeing nothing. This was after about 1.5 years of no noticeable reception issues at all. Re-locating the receiver helped but was too inconvenient a location for me. So I followed danoh and otherís lead and wired in a Yagi antenna. I first opened up the array and noticed how tiny the antenna is. Not a coil but a 1 cm wire. That seems pitiful. It might have been enough to replace that with a small coil but I didnít have one and I already had the Yagi. I was able to use the unused ground pad from ANT 2 and removed the original antenna altogether. It was a tedious job but it will now penetrate my entire house and a brick wall from 100 ft out so Iím happy.

Thank you for a very interesting post.  Your picture of the antenna reminded me of something I've seen on Ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/915Mhz-Antenna-2dBi/171877270861

I wonder how much something like this would help.

Offline bvstation

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #65 on: August 02, 2020, 12:35:42 AM »
I just wanted to share reception issues and a resolution Iíve had. About 1 month ago my WS-2902A started missing a lot of packets and eventually the receiver was seeing nothing. This was after about 1.5 years of no noticeable reception issues at all. Re-locating the receiver helped but was too inconvenient a location for me. So I followed danoh and otherís lead and wired in a Yagi antenna. I first opened up the array and noticed how tiny the antenna is. Not a coil but a 1 cm wire. That seems pitiful. It might have been enough to replace that with a small coil but I didnít have one and I already had the Yagi. I was able to use the unused ground pad from ANT 2 and removed the original antenna altogether. It was a tedious job but it will now penetrate my entire house and a brick wall from 100 ft out so Iím happy.



In those images it shows the wire going to the antenna plate and what looks like a small one off the the right? Can you give some instructions to that and any links to the items you used exactly? I put in two new windows in my office room here and that cut down big time on my signal and I'm not wanting to move the display but enhance the signal from the mount like you did there. I just need a detailed list of what you used and how you used it pls.

Offline draftpunk

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2020, 11:37:57 AM »
I didn't see a good way of soldering the copper shield from the coax to the ground pad on the board. So I attached a small white wire to the copper shield, then covered that connection with heat shrink. Then I soldered the other end of the white wire to ground pad. Then I drilled a hole on the bottom of the station to screw in the male SMA connector. Does that make sense? Let me know if you have more questions.

Offline bvstation

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2020, 11:42:50 AM »
I didn't see a good way of soldering the copper shield from the coax to the ground pad on the board. So I attached a small white wire to the copper shield, then covered that connection with heat shrink. Then I soldered the other end of the white wire to ground pad. Then I drilled a hole on the bottom of the station to screw in the male SMA connector. Does that make sense? Let me know if you have more questions.

Yes the male SMA connector - got a link for that? I see the connector poking out the bottom there but from that to where you connected to board appears to be a wire about several inches long but I can't seem to find that to purchase unless you made it?

Got a link to purchase the SMA connector perhaps on amazon?
Thanks!


Offline draftpunk

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #68 on: August 02, 2020, 11:49:09 AM »
I think technically I meant a female SMA connector. But anyway, you just need a coax cable with a female SMA connector on it and clip off the other end and open up the wire. Something like this should work: https://www.amazon.com/Bingfu-Bulkhead-Extension-Cellular-Amplifier/dp/B08139CQLG/ref=sr_1_18?dchild=1&keywords=female+sma+wire&qid=1596383232&sr=8-18

Offline bvstation

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2020, 12:24:43 PM »
I think technically I meant a female SMA connector. But anyway, you just need a coax cable with a female SMA connector on it and clip off the other end and open up the wire. Something like this should work: https://www.amazon.com/Bingfu-Bulkhead-Extension-Cellular-Amplifier/dp/B08139CQLG/ref=sr_1_18?dchild=1&keywords=female+sma+wire&qid=1596383232&sr=8-18

Ok perfect - and which cable and length did you use from that connector outside of the sensor to the yagi?
I don't want to go to long which appears you did 5-3 feet down? Got a link to that as well because when I'm searching the descriptions are misleading to exactly the size that should connect from one to the other.
The connections on the board should be fairly easy though good image of that from what you did.

Offline draftpunk

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #70 on: August 02, 2020, 12:34:49 PM »
My coax with SMA connectors on each end is around 2-3í. Also, you need an SMA to N adapter to connect to the Yagi: DGZZI 2-Pack N Male to SMA Female RF Coaxial Adapter N to SMA Coax Jack Connector https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071L2C1ZK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_SQUjFb2DHAGRA

Offline bvstation

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #71 on: August 02, 2020, 12:40:28 PM »
My coax with SMA connectors on each end is around 2-3í. Also, you need an SMA to N adapter to connect to the Yagi: DGZZI 2-Pack N Male to SMA Female RF Coaxial Adapter N to SMA Coax Jack Connector https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071L2C1ZK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_SQUjFb2DHAGRA

Or I could just use this that goes directly from yagi to the connector if I'm looking at the ends correctly?
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07V2VFHS9/ref=pd_luc_rh_sspa_dk_huc_pt_expsub_0?psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExUDVCUzZTV1VKUkEyJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjMzMjk3MjdPNDBUQUZaSUxQQyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTUyNDQ1WjNHSk1NNkdDNzNIJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfaHVjX21yYWkmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

Offline draftpunk

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #72 on: August 02, 2020, 01:00:57 PM »
Yes, that should work.

Offline WA4OPQ

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #73 on: August 03, 2020, 02:24:51 PM »
I've done some work with adding an external antenna also. I'll post some pics and instructions in a week or two.
My installation is on the outside of a metal barn, GW-1000 is inside. When the doors are closed no RF gets in. So I've modded the array with an RF connector and ran 25 feet of coax inside to a small antenna.

Offline bvstation

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Re: New WS-2902A reception issues
« Reply #74 on: August 08, 2020, 06:01:09 PM »
I didn't see a good way of soldering the copper shield from the coax to the ground pad on the board. So I attached a small white wire to the copper shield, then covered that connection with heat shrink. Then I soldered the other end of the white wire to ground pad. Then I drilled a hole on the bottom of the station to screw in the male SMA connector. Does that make sense? Let me know if you have more questions.

I tried this today - I found no good way to attach the center conductor of the wire to the antenna spot...its too tiny for solder to connect to. I even temp wound it around the antenna after attaching a temp ground wire to the braided aluminum looking wire around that semi conductor center of the wire and attached the yagi everything no luck in seeing the signal raise from testing.
I'm kinda dumb founded at this moment.

 

anything