Author Topic: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?  (Read 18938 times)

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Offline SLOweather

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VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« on: September 27, 2018, 10:42:15 PM »
I missed an installation of a new VP2 today. According to my friend on the scene, the new ISS has a tipping spoon in place of the tipping bucket.

Did I miss the memo? I did a quick search here and didn't see anything on it. I know the station is a VP2 because I saw the sealed box.

Offline johnd

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2018, 03:07:16 AM »
I know it was being talked about, but not seen any official announcement as yet. Which revision is this one (ie initial letters)?
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Offline miraculon

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2018, 08:25:43 AM »
It would seem that this would require a re-work of the base. I hope that the provisions for the heater are still present.

Greg H.


Blitzortung Stations #706 and #1682
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Offline johnd

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2018, 03:01:58 PM »
Q for DAVISô, which box are WE the users gonna check ()?:

Time and tests will obviously tell, but I'd like to think it will be for the better - it should at least remove errors from an unbalanced seesaw and/or the two endstops being at different heights, plus there's obviously only one adjustment that you might need to make.
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Offline AZweather

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2018, 02:05:57 PM »
I just purchased and installed a VP2. Hereís a link of the tipping spoon/ collector

https://goo.gl/images/xuXyTa

Offline johnd

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2018, 02:14:13 PM »
I just purchased and installed a VP2. Hereís a link of the tipping spoon/ collector

https://goo.gl/images/xuXyTa

That's not a tipping spoon I'm afraid - that's the seesaw on the older 7852 rain gauge that preceded the current 6463 standalone gauge. The tipping spoon version will presumably succeed 6463 (assuming it gets given a different part number - which is not a given on past Davis history, just to confuse everyone).
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Offline AZweather

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2018, 02:54:05 PM »
I just purchased and installed a VP2. Hereís a link of the tipping spoon/ collector

https://goo.gl/images/xuXyTa

That's not a tipping spoon I'm afraid - that's the seesaw on the older 7852 rain gauge that preceded the current 6463 standalone gauge. The tipping spoon version will presumably succeed 6463 (assuming it gets given a different part number - which is not a given on past Davis history, just to confuse everyone).

Thanks for the education on this. Iím very new to the hardware and didnít know the difference.

Offline dalecoy

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2018, 05:25:56 PM »
I just purchased and installed a VP2.

As Johnd implied, you didn't receive the latest model/version/whatever of the VP2. 

Offline Mattk

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2018, 05:47:19 PM »
So does this tipping spoon VP2 version exist or not? One would have thought if there re on the market then Davis would be publishing it and there would be some real evidence about it, have not seen anything that proves it exists yet

Offline thomas

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2018, 05:50:28 PM »
As miraculon noted, from the picture that does not look like an easy retro fit to current tipping buckets.

Offline trumper

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2018, 11:52:16 AM »
Hi from Australia. 

Can confirm a single spoon, just got a brand new Davis Pro 2 from Davis Australia. After receiving it  I sent an email to Davis support asking about the new single spoon set up thinking there was something wrong after seeing all the pictures of the original seesaw arrangement on the DP 2's. 

I was told by Davis it's new.  Apparently, Davis think it is more accurate than the the double spoon/seesaw setup.   Furthermore, in the manual I got, it actually shows a single spoon not the seesaw arrangement.

Hope it works, but given I'm in fairly dry part of Australia I might not get to test it much.  So probably wont matter!!!. 

Offline miraculon

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2018, 02:32:53 PM »
Interestingly, a copy of the ISS manual from 5/15/2015 shows a diagram of the "tipping spoons" on page 9. This is the same familiar pivoting tipping mechanism that we all "know and love".

I looked at my previously saved copy of the manual from 2010 and it shows the same diagram on page 14 and calls them "tipping buckets".

Both of these diagrams cover the cutting of the tie-wrap securing the tipping mechanism that was in place for shipping.

Was this just a nomenclature change, or did it presage a change to a single spoon?

Greg H.


Blitzortung Stations #706 and #1682
CoCoRaHS: MI-PI-1
CWOP: CW4114 and KE8DAF-13
WU: KMIROGER7
Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline Mattk

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2018, 05:37:17 PM »
Does anybody have a photo, a VP2 manual showing the "tipping spoon" or anything else to validate this? Really need some more on this than hearsay 

Trumper, can you provide a photo?

Offline trumper

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2018, 02:47:34 AM »
On the back page of the ISS manual it says "Document  Part Number 7395.357"  "Rev A 6/5/18"

On page 10 it has a picture of the single tipping spoon (about how to cut the cable tie)

I have attached a picture (I hope)

Offline Mattk

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2018, 03:45:52 AM »
Yes picture attached well, thankyou. Ok this appears to be a retro-fit replacement using the same/old rain collector base?

Offline dalecoy

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2018, 10:11:06 AM »
..... Ok this appears to be a retro-fit replacement using the same/old rain collector base?

Wouldn't that be a good approach?

Offline miraculon

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2018, 12:45:54 PM »
It does appear to use the existing base. The spoon "chute" empties into one of the outlet areas. I also can see that the mounting tabs are reused. I stand corrected on my earlier assumption...

I printed out a picture of the new tipping spoon assembly and took it out to my gauge. It appears that the new mechanism would interfere with the heater board, at least on the side where I mounted mine. Maybe if I moved the heater to the opposite side it would work.

I'll attach a picture of my heater board (a copy of the Davis that I made myself).

trumper, could you post a photo from the opposite side of the tipping spoon?

Greg H.




Blitzortung Stations #706 and #1682
CoCoRaHS: MI-PI-1
CWOP: CW4114 and KE8DAF-13
WU: KMIROGER7
Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline ocala

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2018, 07:54:14 PM »
Just an observation but it would seem during a heavy rain there would be a lot of splash out.
That spoon is pretty shallow.
Of course I could be wrong too.

Offline trumper

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2018, 04:34:02 AM »
Hi Miraculon

Here is a photo of the unboxing of my VP 2 showing the tipping spoon from the other side.

Offline miraculon

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2018, 08:15:40 AM »
Hi Miraculon

Here is a photo of the unboxing of my VP 2 showing the tipping spoon from the other side.

Thank you very much. It looks like it would be feasible to install the tipping spoon and leave the heater where it is. The wiring was my main concern with relocating the heater.

Hmmm...  :-k

Greg H.


Blitzortung Stations #706 and #1682
CoCoRaHS: MI-PI-1
CWOP: CW4114 and KE8DAF-13
WU: KMIROGER7
Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline miraculon

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2018, 08:19:51 AM »
I am wondering what the motivation was to make this change.

Warranty claims with broken reed switches? (the reed switch is somewhat vulnerable on the VP2)

Process issues with an operator-dependent solder connection?

Davis must have had good results with the tipping spoon in the VUE in order to make this change.

Greg H.


Blitzortung Stations #706 and #1682
CoCoRaHS: MI-PI-1
CWOP: CW4114 and KE8DAF-13
WU: KMIROGER7
Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline mauro63

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2018, 08:58:18 AM »
Just an observation but it would seem during a heavy rain there would be a lot of splash out.
That spoon is pretty shallow.
Of course I could be wrong too.

good observation, the vp2 cone has a very larger cone diameter compared to vue and, obviously, with heavy rain the amount of water wich falls on the bucket is bigger
it could be interesting to have an image of the inner part of the rain collector, if Davis is attentive to details as always has been, it may have added a lower break drop to limit the problem
sorry for my english

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Offline johnd

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2018, 09:27:23 AM »
I am wondering what the motivation was to make this change.

I would guess that the main aim has been to increase rainfall accuracy, which remains the weakest point of the VP2 spec in recent years and the aspect that is most often criticised. Whether that aim is achieved remains to be seen of course. But yes a secondary benefit of making the rain gauge mechanism more easily replaceable by the user (which I'm guessing is possible on the new configuration, but I haven't seen it close-up yet) would be a step forwards too. Presumably the old reed switch might be replaced by a solid state switch on the new mechanism too?

Hopefully there might be a brief technical note circulated soon from Davis, but the new ISS  should be on display at the Amsterdam trade show next week so the usual Davis team should be able to provide more info in person.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 02:55:48 AM by johnd »
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Offline jgentry

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2018, 08:54:19 PM »
If this is an improvement, I might have to get this for my field stations. My home station uses the RainWise tipping bucket gauge, which works very well.
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Offline Mattk

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Re: VP2 tipping spoon raingauge?
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2018, 10:37:37 PM »
The weakest link in the Davis VP2 rain collector is the outlet from the bottom of the cone not having suitable riser/sieve insert to prevent clogging and interference from foreign objects. This VP2 spoon which appears to be a retrofit to existing VP2 Base/cone won't solve the ago old clogging/blockage issue as there has been nothing Davis has done to this issue (insert/grates etc) that has ever solved this issue.   

I haven't decided as yet if the Spoon v Tipper is more or less prone to design affects?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 10:39:22 PM by Mattk »