Author Topic: Blue Antenna  (Read 2904 times)

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Offline jeffm5690

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Blue Antenna
« on: May 30, 2016, 09:33:28 PM »
Going to work on my Antenna for the new Blue.

Was thinking of 10mmx200mm with the 26AWG in the PVC and LB.

Can anyone help me with confirming the turns?  I saw something about 5mm on each end unwound.  After all wound, how do I dress the ends?  I was going to shrink wrap after that.

Best,

Jeff

Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Blue Antenna
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2016, 12:05:49 AM »
http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=19914.0  250mm X 7.5mm build works great.
Just sorta follow the pics and discussion... we've gotten pretty proficient at literally throwing these together....

If you want to see an interesting experiment of what I now run,
right click and download, (they're big files)
...those CSS Thingie draft documents...

http://sferics.us/Combine.pdf (50MB)
gives you the build.
 
http://sferics.us/B series 07172015.pdf  (6MB)
Shows some signals 'Normal' vrs the 'CSS Thingie' wrap

Enjoy!  And Welcome aboard
Mike

« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 09:36:25 AM by Cutty Sark Sailor »
 

Offline jeffm5690

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Re: Blue Antenna
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2016, 02:24:51 PM »
Thank you!  Unfortunately I missed my mailman and he left the registered mail tag in my box.  Have to wait until Monday now...  Bummer.

Offline Ashevillian

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Re: Blue Antenna
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2016, 10:29:51 AM »
What advantage/disadvantage is there to three orthogonal  H field antennas versus three  in the same plane?

Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Blue Antenna
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2016, 11:22:36 AM »
I'm not sure of your question:  These are for detecting the H (M) component of a typically vertically polarized impulse, which is in the horizontal plane, that is orthogonal to the E field, which we detect with a short vertical wire probe. On RED we used 2 loops, with 4 lobes, on Blue we can use 3 loops with 6 lobes, therefore receiving in more 'circular' pattern,  whether they're ferrites, or circular wire loops. That structure slightly enhances BLUEs reception pattern over two 90 loops, but doesn't necessarily improve overall, situational efficiency/effectivity.  Too many factors are involved.
For the H component of vertically polarized impulses, wire loops mount vertically, ferrites, horizontally.
For BLUE only... we can use the third H ferrite antenna, mounted vertically, to detect the H component of Horizontally polarized impulses. For wire loops you would mount the third loop Horizontally, and maintain the other two in the "vertical" 90 structure.
Pros/Cons.... since Blitzortung operates as a network, detection/location dependent on a minimum of four stations capturing the same impulse, I think there is no specific advantage one over the other... from observing various stations over the last few years, in many respects the ferrites may be 'better', overall, but as much depends on personal preference, mounting location, EM environment, geographical location and antenna construction as on any electrical differences.  The wire loops certainly take up more volume space... those three 250mm ferrites fit comfortably on a 12" X 12" mouning surface. And my experimentation with a vertically mounted ferrite would indicate that 250 mm is way too much overkill, especially without that ferrite being very well shielded against E. (Of course, I fight a very noisy location... as the guys on the board are tired of hearing me mention).
These are 'broadband' unturned systems, with a bandwidth 0-300kHz max.. most of what we want is 3-30kHz energy...
 

Offline Ashevillian

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Re: Blue Antenna
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2016, 03:46:31 PM »
My question is what are the benefits of having three orthogonal ferrites antennas ( 2  horizontal and one perpendicular to those two) as described by the guys at blitzortung for the new Blue system, versus the three ferrites, in an equilateral triangle configuration all running horizontal that I have seen you are running (or at least have shown a picture of on this site).

Is it because of interference that you have a problem with that you are not running a vertical third H antenna?  If interference is not an issue would it be better/beneficial to run the third vertically?

Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Blue Antenna
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2016, 05:02:15 PM »
Gotcha....
... yes, I'm not currently running an experimental vertical because of the noise.... but I've not really begun the experiment, yet.
In it's simple form, Blitzortung operates on TOA and TOGA of lightning impulses, so it doesn't particularly care what the polarity of a signal is in order to detect and locate a stroke. However, the system is capable of much more, and there is a lot that could be done with data from RED and BLUE systems. RED is capable of sending two H channels, and 3 channels of E data with 3 separate E channel bandwidths.  BLUE is designed with 3 H channels, and only one E of wide bandwidth, using the optionally installed filtering instead of 3 E channels.

Since, most impulses are cloud to ground and are vertically polarized, the H loops and E probe network arrangement detects with good data quality the large percentage of strokes.
---  some horizontally polarized signals are of course detected incidentally, typically those nearby, but they are mixed with all the other sferics.

Now, by utilizing the first two BLUE signal channels, A&B, at 90 allows great 'omni' coverage of H 'vertical', same as RED-- and using the 3rd BLUE H channel, C, for a horizontally polarized loop, which is by nature omni, we could theoretically capture a few more strokes, and because of the data being on a discrete channel, separately track those impulses, if we wish. We could also discriminate better, by comparing, confused sferics that occur nearby, as well as distorted polarities and frequency distortions from reflected skywave components... (virtually any sferic signal > 50-100 miles would be a skywave reflection)

There is, then, no advantage to using 3 loops for horizontally polarized signals (effort is duplicated), some slight advantage using 3 in delta- for vertically polarized, and some greater advantage for using two 90 for vertically polarized, and one for horizontally polarized. (Once such algorithms are actively implemented on the processing servers.

Now, before somebody asks... please note that, unless very extreme shielded loops are used, the 'standard' vertically polarized H field loops, whether ferrite or wire, already detect E components of a Horizontally polarized signal! (Especially those nearby) So, because of the phase differences of the two, I suspect the server sometimes thinks these are H components of different strokes, hence many of the extra signals stations are (mis)credited with, in my opinion. Discrimination becomes worse with distance, because of the distorted skywave reflections, and is often worse with lots of active nearby cells...

So, in my environment, I'm able to discriminate the nominal vertically polarized E components with my E probes on both systems, but getting the extra near-field components eliminated from a vertically mounted H Horizontal detecting antenna will be difficult, if even possible, for me in my location.

Hope this gives some type answer... there are a lot of variables in this, and we learn as we operate... we already have situations where 'logic' and 'theory' play games with actual operation!
« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 05:33:58 PM by Cutty Sark Sailor »
 

Offline jeffm5690

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Re: Blue Antenna
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2016, 12:30:46 PM »
Im going to start the build today and the ferrite tomorrow.  That said, once i wind and follow the instructions, how do i terminate and what type of connector do i put on the antenna so i can connect to the blue which will be in the case i ordered from Egon?

Offline miraculon

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Re: Blue Antenna
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2016, 06:48:09 PM »
Im going to start the build today and the ferrite tomorrow.  That said, once i wind and follow the instructions, how do i terminate and what type of connector do i put on the antenna so i can connect to the blue which will be in the case i ordered from Egon?

There are screw terminals on the amplifier board, so there is no connector. Stripped and tinned wire is best. The magnet wire is small and may not grip well into the screw terminals. The Blue amplifier board has screw terminals set up for smaller wires, so this might not be a problem this go-around (referring to older models, Green and RED). I soldered insulated stranded wire and protected the magnet wire to stranded in-line solder joint with heat shrink tubing. I don't recall the construction instructions for the home-brew ferrite antennas, if they are already terminated in 22-24AWG wire you will be all set. This was contained in the 1st link that Mike provided, so this is redundant a bit. It is at the end of the thread so you might have missed it.

I had the 200mm ferrite rod antennas originally provided with the 6.8 USB "Green" detector. I re-used them (and the housings) for the Blue system.


Greg H.


Blitzortung Stations #706 and #1682
CoCoRaHS: MI-PI-1
CWOP: CW4114 and KE8DAF-13
WU: KMIROGER7
Amateur Radio Callsign: KE8DAF

Offline kevinmcc

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Re: Blue Antenna
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2016, 01:46:31 PM »
I made 9.5mm x 210mm antennas using the 26 gauge wire and the ferrite rods below.

Stripped and tinned about the ends of the wires.

I really can't say how good they are, dealing with power supply noise.

I plan to fix that once I get station in final location.

My station 1539.

https://www.amazon.com/Remington-Industries-26SNSP-Enameled-Diameter/dp/B0082CUNVE

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fair-Rite/4078377511/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMukHu%252bjC5l7YR29uXIysirpiTl7tUWS6Js%3d
« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 01:50:05 PM by kevinmcc »

 

anything