Author Topic: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair  (Read 12766 times)

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Offline nixxon

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Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #100 on: August 24, 2020, 05:09:09 AM »
Reply to Willum:

It is very strange you get such a high price for this item at Aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32485884260.html. See enclosed picture of what the offer looks like on my computer. If I change the currency to GBP and shipping to the UK the items costs £7.50  (£8.33 -10%) incl. shipping. The price is the same even if I change my ip-address (VPN) to a random country that happened to be Irland 78.xxx.xxx.xx

EDIT: Somebody just bought this sensor, because now they have only 288 left :)

I agree that this Wiegand "sensors" differs from hall effect sensors. Even though both react to magnetic variations, the output is different.

https://www.ahest.net/news/Hall-Effect-Sensor-Principles.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor

And, not to forget, the reed switch that has been used with some Davis weather stations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_switch

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« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 09:10:46 AM by nixxon »

Offline Willum

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Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #101 on: August 24, 2020, 05:47:25 AM »
Not to be outdone (done!), I cleared all cookies, logged out and back in, and, hey presto!  free shipping! \:D/
Mine comes in at $9.83 but who cares.  It's ordered - in the hope it's the problem.  I can then put my newly acquired SMD soldering station to the test (it was acquired using much the same argument as you used for an oscilloscope).
Actually, the test is most likely to be a test of my soldering skills which are, to say the very least, rather rusty.
Will

Offline nixxon

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Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #102 on: August 24, 2020, 06:20:05 AM »
Not to be outdone (done!), I cleared all cookies, logged out and back in, and, hey presto!  free shipping! \:D/
Mine comes in at $9.83 but who cares.  It's ordered - in the hope it's the problem.  I can then put my newly acquired SMD soldering station to the test (it was acquired using much the same argument as you used for an oscilloscope).
Actually, the test is most likely to be a test of my soldering skills which are, to say the very least, rather rusty.
Will

Now we both can soon begin the job of digging into the conformal coating covering the old WG112 on the Vue PCBA. You could start by exposing the solder pads for the WG112 sensor. Then try the AA battery trick I described a few posts back. If you do not get any wind speed registered on your console when you pulse these solder pads, the old Wiegand sensor may be good (or it may have an internal short that could inhibit the AA battery trick from working)

You mentioned putting your SMD soldering station to the test. Is it a hot-air rework station. Like the good old Atten 858D+ ? I think an ordinary soldering iron would be suitable for this job as well.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 11:43:00 AM by nixxon »

Offline nixxon

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Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #103 on: September 18, 2020, 09:49:58 AM »
My Wiegand sensor WG112 just arrived from China. I will post a repair status update you as soon as the part has been installed. Fingers crossed...

Offline Willum

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Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #104 on: September 19, 2020, 02:36:47 AM »
Apologies, tardy reply to the soldering station question.  It's a Yihua 968DA+, a bit more of a budget version but similar in most respects.  In the UK the price of most of the rework stations has gone through the roof.  Doubtless they've used the Covid excuse. :roll:
The Weigand is still 'in the post' but I had notification of an imported package being delivered today, so fingers crossed.  The other item it could just be - using the Davis problem as an excuse - is a cheap and cheerful digital oscilloscope that I took a risk with:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981261666.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3bb04c4dsPmBkZ
which gives me another excuse to try the soldering station, although I went for a version with the SMDs already soldered on.  A step too far for my skills at the moment, I'll practice on an old board before I risk ruining a new one.
They are by no means a professional standard scope but should suffice for this and lots of other basic jobs.
Now I just need no more outdoor jobs to do and an excuse to disappear into the mancave........ [tup]
Will

Offline nixxon

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I fixed it: Vantage Vue shows wind speed and direction again
« Reply #105 on: September 19, 2020, 07:52:57 AM »
I had a go at fixing the Wiegand sensor today. After swapping the old with the new sensor, I am happy to let you know that my Vantage Vue now works again. It reports wind speed and wind direction  :grin: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IBRUM59

The new sensor has a resistance of 860 ohm and the old broken sensor has a resistance of 5 Megaohm (increasing value while measuring the resistance).

The best tool for the job is a regular soldering iron with a really small chisel bevel tip. And you need a magnifier glass to be able to see what you are doing. And some solder wick and flux.

After removing the conformal coating I could see that the components on the PCB seem to have been exposed to moisture. The solder joints look corroded and crusty. Due to the small component size I did not dare to desolder the components to clean it all up and resolder. I tried to heat up the components with my hot-air rework station, but the the conformal coating surrounding the components started melting and running all over the place.

The hardest part of the job was to peel back the conformal coating.

After the fix I "temporarily" sealed the PCB with electrical tape. (easy to gain acces again if the fix does not last)

Willum: I hope you manage to fix your weather station as well.

Looking back at my first posts regarding this issue I realize it took me exactly 4 years to fix it  :eek:
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 06:15:38 AM by nixxon »

Offline Willum

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Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #106 on: September 19, 2020, 08:41:17 AM »
Well done!  Well done, indeed!!
The pictures are excellent and a useful guide to what to expect.  I take note of your remarks regarding the conformal coating. [tup]
Mine is a similar mess and if anything the poor quality and standard of application of the coating seems to have caused more problems than it solved by trapping the moisture in the PCB - probably along with flux residue to turn it into a nice corrosive atmosphere.
I have yet to remove mine and decide which conformal to use.  I have a mind to speak to Sika and see if any of their products are suitable.  From past experience some of their stuff is completely waterproof, can even be applied underwater - and is VERY difficult to dislodge.  I've just today reminded myself of that quality by trying to remove old solar panel mounts off the ABS roof of my motorhome.  The ONLY way is mechanically - very, very carefully, using a serrated cheese wire/fishing wire trace, utility knife and patience.  The final residue taken off the roof with a very sharp chisel but nothing I can find will dissolve it.
Will

Offline miraculon

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Re: I fixed it: Vantage Vue shows wind speed and direction again
« Reply #107 on: September 19, 2020, 08:55:47 AM »

The hardest part of the job was to peel back the conformal coating.

After the fix I "temporarily" sealed the PCB with electrical tape. (easy to gain acces again if the fix does not last)


For future reference, there are conformal coating removing chemicals available. Something like this one.

In this post regarding my super-capacitor repair, I referenced some conformal coating in a small jar with a brush. This exact type seems to be obsolete, but others are available from the various suppliers. I don't know what the availability is in Europe, but Mouser and Digi-Key have European operations as does Amazon (of course).

https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=40438.msg415226#msg415226

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Offline nixxon

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Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #108 on: September 19, 2020, 11:18:36 AM »
Well done!  Well done, indeed!!
The pictures are excellent and a useful guide to what to expect.  I take note of your remarks regarding the conformal coating. [tup]
Mine is a similar mess and if anything the poor quality and standard of application of the coating seems to have caused more problems than it solved by trapping the moisture in the PCB - probably along with flux residue to turn it into a nice corrosive atmosphere.
I have yet to remove mine and decide which conformal to use.  I have a mind to speak to Sika and see if any of their products are suitable.  From past experience some of their stuff is completely waterproof, can even be applied underwater - and is VERY difficult to dislodge.  I've just today reminded myself of that quality by trying to remove old solar panel mounts off the ABS roof of my motorhome.  The ONLY way is mechanically - very, very carefully, using a serrated cheese wire/fishing wire trace, utility knife and patience.  The final residue taken off the roof with a very sharp chisel but nothing I can find will dissolve it.
Will

To remove the old conformal coating I used a scalpel to cut halfway through the coating and then bent the stuff away using a small flat head screwdriver. The coating ripped somewhat along the precuts. As a bonus the remaining coating on either side of the sensor made a perfect grab onto the the new component before soldering it in.

Regarding the choice of a new conformal coating I would listen to miraculon. It sounds as if he knows what he is talking about. I would not apply Sikaflex, Tec7 or similar sealants as these products are super tough and adheres like crazy. For now I think the electrical tape is ok. I consider applying liquid tape on the electrical tape edges. I want to be able to get in there easily and cleanly as both diodes and the FET with solder joints looked really dodgy. If the wind speed suddenly reads half the correct value I would suspect that one diode has gone bad. If the wind speed fails all together I will suspect that the FET (or both the diodes) has gone bad.

After receiving the WG112 I noticed that there was a tracking number on the envelope. I didn't know that the shipment had tracking. That is nice. Did you get a tracking number?

Regarding your new $10 oscilloscope, it may be useful for some applications. For some reason I had a hard time testing the performance of the new Wiegand sensor today using my good old Rigol DS1102E. I did not get consistent readings when rotating or swinging a magnet across the sensor. It may have been a oscilloscope setting problem or maybe I used a magnet that was not suitable. Even though the oscillocope readings made me think that the new WG112 was faulty, it actually works flawlessly :)

I forgot to ask: have you successfully tried "the AA battery trick" to narrow the problem down to the WG112 sensor?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 09:09:27 PM by nixxon »

Offline Willum

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Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #109 on: September 20, 2020, 05:21:49 AM »
.................Sikaflex, Tec7 or similar sealants as these products are super tough and adheres like crazy...............
Kinda what I was hoping for, given my suspicion that the original coating is so poor and appears to me to trap moisture and cause corrosion - but point taken, especially in view of your comments regarding possible future repairs.  I would hope that I can make a better job of it than the original poor effort.

..............After receiving the WG112 I noticed that there was a tracking number on the envelope. I didn't know that the shipment had tracking. That is nice. Did you get a tracking number?
Yes, I did and it arrived yesterday.  A tracking number was referenced in one of the many emails from Ali Express.  I'd taken it with a pinch of salt but it appears to have been reasonably accurate, even if only after the event, ie: 'Arrived at Import/Customs', 'At Delivery Depot', 'Out for Delivery'.  The projected delivery date spanned a "20 - 39 days" period, never changed and it took 26.  This repair project is a winter weather job on a non-functioning set of internals, so I didn't mind the relatively slow time delivery in view of the cost saving.

Regarding your new $10 oscilloscope, it may be useful for some applications. For some reason I had a hard time testing the performance of the new Wiegand sensor today using my good old Rigol DS1102E. I did not get consistent readings when rotating or swinging a magnet across the sensor. It may have been a oscilloscope setting problem or maybe I used a magnet that was not suitable. Even though the oscillocope readings made me think that the new WG112 was faulty, it actually works flawlessly :)
I'm not expecting a lot from it but the reviews mainly seem to criticise the high frequency measurements? - not a concern in our case, I think.  Either way, it'll be interesting to compare notes when I get to try it.

I forgot to ask: have you successfully tried "the AA battery trick" to narrow the problem down to the WG112 sensor?
Short answer:  No.  We are still flat out working on our house renovation - 1000 M2 of concrete/paving block driveway plus many other repair/replacement jobs - whilst the weather holds.  All the information you and others have passed on is carefully stored and awaiting that rainy day.  I for one am very grateful for it.
I suspect I'll be in need of quite a few indoor projects this winter since we normally head south and it probably won't happen this year due the Covid-19 situation, both here and in Europe.  (please don't mention the added stupidity of the 'Brexit' situation, it's just too embarrassing :oops: ](*,) :oops: :evil: #-o)

Will

Offline nixxon

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Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #110 on: September 23, 2020, 07:22:30 AM »
D'oh!  :shock:

4 hours ago, the wind speed failed again at 94% Relative Humidity. It seems that the high relative humidity problem is still present after changing the Wiegand sensor. I am now going to troubleshoot the ISS while the weather is bad and the error is still present. Now I am glad I decided not to apply any permanent conformal coating to the sensor PCB.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 07:24:42 AM by nixxon »

Offline Willum

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Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #111 on: September 23, 2020, 11:34:08 AM »
D'oh!  :shock:
4 hours ago, the wind speed failed again at 94% Relative Humidity. It seems that the high relative humidity problem is still present after changing the Wiegand sensor. I am now going to troubleshoot the ISS while the weather is bad and the error is still present. Now I am glad I decided not to apply any permanent conformal coating to the sensor PCB.
Bad luck!! :-(  The fault on our two Vantage Vues (one here, one a kilometre away at my brother's house) was always in conditions of high RH.
You did well to resist temptation.  The urge to seal it all up must be great when you think you've found the problem.
Given my less than comprehensive knowledge of electronic components, is there a likelihood that a component (resistor/diode/capacitor, etc) can make a circuit produce a wrong result in the presence of moisture, or is it more likely to be corrosion on the solder joints?
My conformal coating and coating remover arrived today.  A slightly alternative version of UV light-cured coating and acetone to clean up the residue from the old stuff.
Will
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 11:38:01 AM by Willum »

Offline nixxon

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Re: Vantage Vue no wind speed and repair
« Reply #112 on: September 23, 2020, 02:44:13 PM »
I did some oscilloscope measurements of the electric pulses from the WG112 with the probe ground clip connected to system negative (solar panel negative). The pulses were initially pretty low, peaking at ~1V. The pulse going to the FET was 0.5V lower than that after passing through the diode. I think the voltage was not high enough to activate the switch in the FET that pulls the 3V source to ground. I blew some hot air (low setting 100C/212F) over the components, and after that the voltage of WG112 pulses increased quite a bit, peaking at ~2.5-3V. Then the voltage was high enough to activate the FET.

I went over all the solder joints with a soldering iron, in the hope of making better connections for a while. It it fails again I will have a go at replacing the components. I guess I should order the components now to be prepared. The ISS has been working for a few hours by now.

Enclosed is a picture of the oscilloscope screen (showing voltages over time) when the circuit worked again and triggered a wind vane revolution that was registered at the console. Channel 2 (blue) is connected to one of the WG112 pins. Channel 1 (yellow) is connected to the 3V side of the FET, and you can see that it is being pulled down nicely before "slowly" (within ~2 milliseconds) returning to the regular voltage, 3V.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 11:07:43 AM by nixxon »