Author Topic: A bit of help please.  (Read 2187 times)

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Offline txweather.org

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A bit of help please.
« on: November 20, 2014, 05:58:33 PM »
Hello world!  :grin:

I am almost done with all of my cabling and before I get this monster online I wanted to ask....

Between my amplifier boards and the main main controller (RED)... Is there a distance limitation?
I am connecting in my attic my Magnetic Antenna and right out side of the edge of my roof my E-Field Antenna.

Than I have two ethernet drops (Roughly about 90ft each) going from my attic to my downstairs office. This drops will connect my amplifiers back to my main controller board (RED)
Than Ill connect the controller board to my patch panel... Can the controller board be around network equipment or does it need to be isolated?

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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: A bit of help please.
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2014, 06:08:01 PM »
Whew... 180' is a LONG CAT run for H field power, signals and control.... 30M (90') is max recommended...  I've no problems with controller in my Cave with all the machines, etc...
 

Offline txweather.org

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Re: A bit of help please.
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2014, 06:14:50 PM »
Whew... 180' is a LONG CAT run for H field power, signals and control.... 30M (90') is max recommended...  I've no problems with controller in my Cave with all the machines, etc...

Thanks for the information CSS!
:)
I am right at the edge than.
I can short the sucker down to 50ft (Big difference I know! :P )
I just need to place it closer.

Going to get working.

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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: A bit of help please.
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2014, 06:22:55 PM »
Sorry... I misread... thought you meant you had two 90' cats tailed together.... for 180'.   The length of coax for E field matters not. Bring your E field amp right in next to the controller, connect it with a 1' Cat, and make the rest coax.  Seriously.  Rule for E is generally 'more coax, less cat'... but the H amp has to be right at the loops.
 

Offline sacreyweather

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Re: A bit of help please.
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2014, 07:02:02 PM »
Hi xcom,

Congrats on getting there!!!!  My H field is connected to my network using a wireless connection spanning every bit of 50 yards. The controller is connected directly to a Apple Airport Express, which talks to an Apple Airport Extreme, which is the extension of my wireless router, which is right beside me here.
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Offline txweather.org

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Re: A bit of help please.
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2014, 08:12:36 PM »
To All,

Thanks for the help and clarification.
Just so I can be sure I am in the right track and I am explaining my self correctly (I tend not too :P )
I created this diagram to explain exactly what I am trying to do...
Feed back is welcomed!


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Offline txweather.org

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Re: A bit of help please.
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2014, 10:32:34 PM »
Team,

I am almost there.
I just finish placing the controller in my rack and flashed the firmware.
I am going to work on the antennas over the weekend.
Is it ok if I leave it online or do I have to keep it off line till I get the amps connected?

Thanks for the help!

Regards.

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Offline W3DRM

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Re: A bit of help please.
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2014, 12:33:39 AM »
Looking at your diagram I see a couple things that may cause you problems and reduce your effectiveness.

First, the H-field ant to amp distance - you show it at 3 feet. This is way too long. Whether you are using loops or ferrite antennas here, the wiring from either one to the amp must be as short as possible. That means a couple inches, NOT feet between the antenna and amplifier. The 50ft of Cat-5e between the amp and controller is fine.

Secondly, the E-field ant to pre-amp must be short also. The base of my vertical E-field antenna is connected directly to the input terminal of the pre-amp. The pre-amp is then connected to the amplifier via just about any length of dual or quad shielded RG-6 coax. The E-field amplifier is then connected via a "short" section of Cat-5e cable to the controller board. The ideal "short" section of ethernet cable would be about 1 foot.

Your drawing does not represent these ideal conditions. The 50 feet of Cat-5e cabling for the E-field, as shown in your diagram, may very well cause excessive signal delays and thus, false readings from your E-field data.

Hope this helps you understand more clearly what is needed for a higher quality installation.
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Offline Einar

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Re: A bit of help please.
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2014, 03:10:28 AM »
And don't run the Cat5 cables between amplifiers and Controller through a patch panel.

The reason being that some patch panels do not carry the screen through. And if it does, you will have a ground loop between patch panel and Controller With 3 ground paths.

The position error caused by the delay through the cables will be max 1.6*cable length. So there are other Things that will be of greater importance. Like a signal as "clean" as possible. And that is why cable antenna to first amplifier should be as short as possible. The H-Field antennae need not really be out in the open. Unless you have a tin roof, then they could possibly do better outside.


Offline txweather.org

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Re: A bit of help please.
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2014, 05:59:54 AM »
Looking at your diagram I see a couple things that may cause you problems and reduce your effectiveness.

First, the H-field ant to amp distance - you show it at 3 feet. This is way too long. Whether you are using loops or ferrite antennas here, the wiring from either one to the amp must be as short as possible. That means a couple inches, NOT feet between the antenna and amplifier. The 50ft of Cat-5e between the amp and controller is fine. Having to run coax from the attic complicates things quite a bit. I have to see how I can work this out.

Einar:

Let me see what I can work out. I am really limited in options as far as placement of all equipment.
I will come up with a new diagram of my new settings/environment this AM.

Thank you all!

Secondly, the E-field ant to pre-amp must be short also. The base of my vertical E-field antenna is connected directly to the input terminal of the pre-amp. The pre-amp is then connected to the amplifier via just about any length of dual or quad shielded RG-6 coax. The E-field amplifier is then connected via a "short" section of Cat-5e cable to the controller board. The ideal "short" section of ethernet cable would be about 1 foot.

Your drawing does not represent these ideal conditions. The 50 feet of Cat-5e cabling for the E-field, as shown in your diagram, may very well cause excessive signal delays and thus, false readings from your E-field data.

Hope this helps you understand more clearly what is needed for a higher quality installation.

Thanks for the information. I corrected the length between each preamp and each antenna.

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Offline txweather.org

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Re: A bit of help please.
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2014, 07:07:46 AM »
Ok team here is the revised diagram...
Thoughts and feedback are welcome!

Note: I will work to see if I can bypass the patch panel sense I have to run a coax cable I might be able to squeeze another cat5e cable.

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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: A bit of help please.
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2014, 09:24:25 AM »
Let's make sure we're all on the same page, here....

E-field probe connects directly into the outboard antenna terminal of the E preamp.


It mounts similar to this


E field Amplifier and controller


H field ferrites and H amp


There is ONE system ("cold water") ground... at the controller, no more, anywhere.  CAT5 must be shielded. 30M max. for H field. No other connections. Coax straight from Probe/Preamp assy direct to Amp. Ethernet from controller direct to switch/router. No patch panel, etc. if possible.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 09:28:20 AM by Cutty Sark Sailor »
 

Offline txweather.org

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Re: A bit of help please.
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2014, 09:52:39 AM »
CSS,

Yes, That's right... We are in the same page and  I am following you. I will try and use a direct connection from and to the H field. This will change everything for me though. I will need to place the controller some where in another room and not in my office... Oh well =]

Will report back soon.

Thanks!

Regards.

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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: A bit of help please.
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2014, 11:33:40 AM »
Sounds like a real tough physical location.... best of luck.... a lot of my stuff runs through HVAC venting...  :lol:
 

Offline txweather.org

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Re: A bit of help please.
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2014, 12:20:50 PM »
Sounds like a real tough physical location.... best of luck.... a lot of my stuff runs through HVAC venting...  :lol:

Thanks CSS!
Well I guess I am been difficult. I want to have the controller near me and I have a two story home :P
But I can put the controller in my Bedroom on my secondary office and it will make things allot simpler.
We will see.

Thanks all for the help!

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