Poll

Are you running the Automatic mode or Manual?

Fully Automatic with server control
5 (33.3%)
Manual but Auto Adapt to Noise and/or Auto Amplitude Filter options set
6 (40%)
Manual with fixed gains set
4 (26.7%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Voting closed: June 17, 2014, 08:50:14 AM

Author Topic: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED  (Read 2287 times)

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Offline miraculon

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Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« on: June 10, 2014, 08:50:14 AM »
Are you running your RED station in manual mode, or server-side automatic? I'll give three choices, fully automatic, "manual" with "Auto Adapt to Noise" and/or "Auto Amplitude Filter" enabled, and all manual fixed gains and manual mode.

I recently enabled the server-side automatic and it seems to be working, although there was never an "official" announcement that it is working.

Greg


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Offline Knickohr

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2014, 09:06:17 AM »
Fully manual  :-)

After a few days of testing, I switch back to fully manual mode. Quotas and Efficiency are good. I never reached this with automatic modes. It seems, the noise-filter is too heavy.

Thomas

Offline JonathanW

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2014, 09:11:36 AM »
Once I have my system properly installed in a quiet spot, with power supply filtering, etc. (and a couple of additional EMI issues addressed, like some noisy dimmers that have been in my house forever), I'll probably run full manual most of the time--at least, until the full auto comes along a little farther.

Offline sacreyweather

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2014, 09:12:49 AM »
I have tried full, but for me, as storms get closer to the station, the system goes into and stays in interference mode, unless I put in manual.  I'll have to try fully automatic again at some point, probably when I can get some STP Cat5 in place.

John
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Offline 92merc

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2014, 09:46:16 AM »
I'm running full manual.  I haven't switched to the auto-adapt yet because I wanted to see how my 300's would behave under full manual first.

What I'm noticing is basically the same as when I was using my 200's.  As soon as I get some strikes within about 200 miles of me, I have to start backing my gains down to stay out of interference.  And usually around 8pm, I start getting some noise that I have to back off from my full 10*10.

For now, I'm just going with what works for me.  I'll probably switch to full auto eventually.
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Offline JonathanW

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2014, 09:49:51 AM »
I'm running full manual.  I haven't switched to the auto-adapt yet because I wanted to see how my 300's would behave under full manual first.

What I'm noticing is basically the same as when I was using my 200's.  As soon as I get some strikes within about 200 miles of me, I have to start backing my gains down to stay out of interference.  And usually around 8pm, I start getting some noise that I have to back off from my full 10*10.

For now, I'm just going with what works for me.  I'll probably switch to full auto eventually.

I think flexibility will increase once a firmware is released with individual interference modes by amplifier (allowing for high gain settings for H-field, and low gain settings for E-field, for example).

Offline Jumpin Joe

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2014, 10:01:25 AM »
This was prior to E-Field.... running manual now. Still testing E-Field. Signals look funky.

I have been running Auto... until storms get near then switch to manual.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 11:35:30 AM by Jumpin Joe »

Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2014, 11:16:28 AM »
As Greg said, I ran automatic for several days, thinking it was a boost, a boon and working fine.
Not so... after some careful observation, overall a negative effect in may areas, notably adjustment times, and the 'appearance' of getting stuck...
Also, I think the mode is at best 'intermittent' on the server as the developers change and test algorithms.

No filters... (Tobi says those are for specific situations, and implies they are generally useless for those of us with 'normal' situations.,..) you cn define that yourself, I suppose., They do not help me, in fact, hinder me. The system already has 'automatic' filters enabled continuously, as you'll note on the signals page relating to the 'L' 'M' 'A' codes on each signal. Those on the settings page are additional for certain environmental conditions.
No Auto. Full manual. Auto is still test mode. And for those with new stations, new locations, or adding E field, I strongly suggest run manual for an extended period at first. No use getting more confused the we already are.
H field threshold resides 95% of the time at 120mv. Normal Gains with storms > 500mi H is at 10x10. If axle plant gears up third line, A channel down to at least 8x8, even 5x5 depending on conditions. B channel can stay up.
E field threshold at 90mv, gains normally at either 4x4 or 5x5, (4x5 perhaps) all channels. Don't have any specific signal interference, at least in this season... who knows about furnace season, yet. Storms within 300 mi require reduction to 1x2 up to 2x4 or similar, depending on cell activity. Actually, my E field seems to work slightly 'cleaner' with lower preamp gain, than amp gain. H amp has to go down to typically 4x4 under 300mi.
That's to avoid interference mode.

Like was said above, It's my opinion that some 'autoswitching' and 'autogain' between H and E field amps/channels is coming... possibly with next firmware. I have a suspicion that most of that will be done locally in the controller, possibly with some variables for us to set, and to a lesser extent from server 'direct' adjustments.
 

Offline DaleReid

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2014, 01:53:06 PM »
I have one controller H field some distance out into the rain and stuff in a wx proof box.  To run out and fiddle with the pot and change lights is a bit of a challenge.

I was under the assumption (until I built it) that the Efield would be separately controllable, but it is not split out yet.

Also I was understanding that the development team NEEDED out auto feeds to be able to gather info and tweak the algorithms to make it work as we hope it will.

That being said, I have struggled to get my time-outs due to interference down, including a recent move of both antennas out another 75' away from my home and away from the neighbors as best I can.  It has bumped up my on-line time a bit, not as high as others, but a bit. 

As noted, when the storms encroaching I get more and more time-outs, especially in the evenings for some reason with or without storms.

There can be no question that the developers will finally get a handle on this, but they seem to have work and families and need sleep for some reason. 

Now that more stations are coming on line, we don't need our gains set so high as to hear the Mars crawlers.  That being said, there are some needs for the algorithms to be tweaked quite a bit since shortly after my Efield went on line, I got watching my gains and sometimes, even with a nearby storm, got values in the 5000 range!  I thought this was supposed to be the short range component, and that over and over we've been told how incredibly sensitive that part of the system is.

All these thoughts!  Nonetheless, it might be worthwhile for some of the experienced tweakers here to also tell us who are toying with the idea, on what values they are using, and that might narrow it down for those of us who might take a weekend and spin the potentiometer a bit.

Dale
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Offline jmcmurry

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2014, 02:47:11 PM »
Dale,

I was curious about what others might be experimenting with, so I wrote http://jimmcmurry.com/allGains.php to get a feel for what might be working.  It is current each minute so you can compare what you see there with the results seen on the participants page.

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Offline JonathanW

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2014, 02:57:04 PM »
Dale,

I was curious about what others might be experimenting with, so I wrote http://jimmcmurry.com/allGains.php to get a feel for what might be working.  It is current each minute so you can compare what you see there with the results seen on the participants page.

- Jim

Very nice!  Is it possible to show thresholds/relative gain, too?  Since I'm not sure where you're pulling the data from, I'm curious as to whether you can get that information.

EDIT: ah, I see -- from the stations.txt file.  I guess it doesn't contain threshold information.  A pity :)
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 03:04:50 PM by n0ym »

Offline Jumpin Joe

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2014, 03:08:13 PM »
Dale,

I was curious about what others might be experimenting with, so I wrote http://jimmcmurry.com/allGains.php to get a feel for what might be working.  It is current each minute so you can compare what you see there with the results seen on the participants page.

- Jim

Very nice for sure!  =D>

Would you consider sharing the script with us?

Joe

Offline jmcmurry

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2014, 03:49:29 PM »
Would you consider sharing the script with us?

I'm still messing with it, but I guess I could clean it up for "public consumption".  It's probably easier to just bookmark the link and run it off my server though.

n0ym is right, it's the data contained in the stations.txt file.

- Jim

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Offline Jumpin Joe

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2014, 03:58:03 PM »
Would you consider sharing the script with us?

I'm still messing with it, but I guess I could clean it up for "public consumption".  It's probably easier to just bookmark the link and run it off my server though.

n0ym is right, it's the data contained in the stations.txt file.

- Jim

That's a simple solution. 

Thanks,

Joe

Offline Dr Obbins

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2014, 08:18:57 PM »
If there are no storms predicted in KY or any of the neighboring states, it runs fully manual with 10*8 settings. Typically it is in the 90%+ EL in this mode. However if a storm gets with in that range it goes into interference mode. So today with many storms between KY and the Gulf, the filters were on. If the EL and ML strokes were totaled, it was detecting more than other stations at that time. So before I go to work I check the forecast and turn on or off the filters accordingly. Sooner or later I will probably loose interest in changing it every day :shock: and just leave it with the filters on.

Offline W3DRM

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2014, 10:28:31 PM »
Until I can get my equipment out of my office and it's noisy environment, I have to leave it in Automatic mode. Otherwise, I go into interference mode almost constantly. Hopefully, that move will come within a week or two.
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Offline W3DRM

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2014, 12:29:50 PM »
Dale,

I was curious about what others might be experimenting with, so I wrote http://jimmcmurry.com/allGains.php to get a feel for what might be working.  It is current each minute so you can compare what you see there with the results seen on the participants page.

- Jim

Jim,

I notice that the new Hermosilla, Mexico station (1023), which I believe is a E-Field only detector, is showing its values in the second column of your report. Shouldn't the E-Field info be in the third column? Other sites running both, appear to be okay so I am wondering if the data is being shifted to the left because the H-Filed data is missing?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 12:33:46 PM by W3DRM »
Don - W3DRM - Minden, Nevada --- Blitzortung ID: 808 --- FlightRadar24 ID: F-KRNO2
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Offline jmcmurry

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2014, 01:08:21 PM »
That just means that he has his detector on amp #1 which is what the script puts in column 2.  I think I will add column headings so that is clear.

Thanks.  - Jim

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Offline W3DRM

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2014, 05:37:08 PM »
That just means that he has his detector on amp #1 which is what the script puts in column 2.  I think I will add column headings so that is clear.

Thanks.  - Jim

Aha, that explains it. Thanks for the explanation.
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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2014, 06:57:07 PM »
One thing I think we should all do, is Keep H field on amp 1 and E field on amp 2... There is currently no technical reason for this, although such may be implemented later, but it has to do with the very confusion Don mentioned, plus the display of the individual channel colors. My mind set is "green and red" is H field...
I think we should ask each station to standardize, especially as more red E's come on line as stand alones, without H antennas. There will be more.



 

Offline Jumpin Joe

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Re: Server-side Automatic or Manual control of RED
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2014, 07:06:48 PM »
One thing I think we should all do, is Keep H field on amp 1 and E field on amp 2... There is currently no technical reason for this, although such may be implemented later, but it has to do with the very confusion Don mentioned, plus the display of the individual channel colors. My mind set is "green and red" is H field...
I think we should ask each station to standardize, especially as more red E's come on line as stand alones, without H antennas. There will be more.

I agree Mike.  Keep H on 1 and E on 2. This way you know which type of signal you are viewing.

My 2 cents worth....

Joe