Topic: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?

[docbee]

In a German weather forum there are reports of a new VP2 firmware (version 3.00) delivered with the newest batch of stations, that inhibit usage of 3rd party data loggers (especially the one from Fjord Tech). I can't confirm, as I don't have a that new VP2 and a version 3.00 is not avail for download.

Does someone in the forum here have one of that 3.00 VP2s and has experienced problems with a non-Davis datalogger?
May be it is just a xmas gift from Davis to their European customers? When true, this looks to me like an interesting approach to save their xmas sales on ambitiously priced accessory  

[Bushman]

Would not surprise me.  Nikon has done similar with its latest cameras - you MUST buy a real Nikon battery, not a generic one.  Of course Nikon is three times the price.  There's a neat workaround for it though and given the sheer genius of the guys and gays who figured out the last one I expect them to be able to do the same with fw 3.0

[docbee]

I am with you, that would not last for long. But before I start pointing at Davis I would like to get the facts.
1) Is it true? Is there a new 3.00 firmware?
2) Is it something special for Europe or an update with global reach?
Let's see what this forum can find out.

[Bushman]

Current FW release is 1.9 so it seems highly unlikely to me that the German version  skipped 2.n  My German is limited to pleasantries in the bar with the Frauleins and asking for beer or food.  But post a link to the .DE forum and maybe there are some clues to chase down.

[SlowModem]

Would not surprise me.  Nikon has done similar with its latest cameras - you MUST buy a real Nikon battery, not a generic one.  Of course Nikon is three times the price.  There's a neat workaround for it though and given the sheer genius of the guys and gays who figured out the last one I expect them to be able to do the same with fw 3.0

 

[johnd]

There's been no official announcement as yet about a v3 firmware, nor have I seen any VP2 stations with this. I too would expect it to be a v2 firmware and not v3 (though admittedly there have been some unexpected recent decisions about revision numbering, both hardware and software). That said, given that the Vue firmware is already at v2.14, maybe Davis want to avoid any confusion about compatibility issues and so a jump to v3 numbering would remove any possibility of confusion, ie v3 F/W always needs a green dot logger. But this is just speculation on my part.

However, as per other past threads and comments here, there is definitely something afoot regarding logger compatibility with console firmware. Dealers do have a circular explaining the background and some consequences to this change, but it doesn't provide any underlying detail. It will be a global change AFAIK.

[docbee]

Here is my source of information (sorry Bushman, nothing about fraeuleins or beer inside): http://www.wetterstationen.info/forum/davis/xbp-datenlogger-inkompatibel/

As the company selling 3rd party loggers (Fjord) is told to have a v3.00 in their lab for inspection it doesnt sound like a false alarm to me. We 'll see. When it is real I expect more v3.00 popping up in other geographies soon.

[Bushman]

Interesting - thanks for the link.  Thank goodness I have a few bottles of Grlosch to help me through the reading.    I wonder what is motivating Davis?  I mean,  is the profit on a logger  really worth POing  customers who buy $500 to $1000 stations??  Of course the straight through homebrew (non-logging) loggers should be fine.  I would at least hope Davis increases the logging capacity of the logger as part of this change.

Frankly, I think Davis should be more worried about someone deciphering their SS hopping and knocking out sensors for 20 bucks. 

[johnd]

I wonder what is motivating Davis?  

You seem to be excluding the possibility that the pending firmware/logger changes may be associated with some new features (that can only be implemented with a significant change in logger design).After all, the current core logger design has been unchanged for the past 10 years plus - it's not altogether surprising that some further evolution may be happening.

NB Grolsch is Dutch lager (at least originally, though I think SAB-Miller now own the brand, so goodness knows where it's actually brewed nowadays - probably at a huge brewery somewhere near you where they brew different brands on different days of the week).

[Bushman]

Maybe a VP3????

[Cienega32]

I have my VP2 out for a Davis refurb. When it returns, I'll check my firmware version.

[Bushman]

If this comes to pass, I wonder how close to the Magnusson Moss line Davis will go?

[johnd]

We've had a new consignment of Davis stock in today. All of the Vues have Rev 3.00 firmware and some of the VP2 consoles. The manufacturing dates were from mid-September on. So all of these will need green-dot loggers (but since these have been shipping for well over a year now, there shouldn't be a problem here).

[dalecoy]

We've had a new consignment of Davis stock in today. All of the Vues have Rev 3.00 firmware and some of the VP2 consoles. The manufacturing dates were from mid-September on. So all of these will need green-dot loggers (but since these have been shipping for well over a year now, there shouldn't be a problem here).

Let me see if I have this figured out:

If I have an older Davis logger, etc.; and
If Davis offers a VP2 console firmware update to Rev 3.x; and
If I install the console firmware update; then
my all-Davis setup would quit working?

[johnd]

Let me see if I have this figured out:...

I'm looking for some further clarification out of Davis about this, but yes that's my understanding at present.

I'm guessing that the reason that v3.00 hasn't been uploaded to the website is maybe precisely because of this. In future, maybe there'll be two streams of firmware updates - one for pre-2011 logger stations (which will maybe only increment fairly slowly from here on, ie as per the old VP1 stations) and one for post-2011. But it may be better to hold off speculating until there's some harder information available.

Edit: Actually, what isn't clear - to me at least and without further investigation - is whether the _only_ difference between the new consoles and the previous ones is the firmware. It could be, for instance, that they also have some hardware changes (certainly they have a different Mfg Code format) and that it's the combination of AA consoles and Rev 3.00 F/W that is not compatible with older loggers. Conceivably, loading v3.00 F/W on an older console might be acceptable, but I'm straying into the realms of speculation again. Best to wait for harder information.

[dalecoy]

I'm looking for some further clarification out of Davis about this, but yes that's my understanding at present.

That looks to me like a total Davis Support Disaster.

I'm imagining the number of people who do not read or follow warnings, as well as the number of vendors, and private sellers, eBay, etc.,

I suspect that most people who follow this forum will be able to cope.  But that's probably 1% of customers.  Of course, many folks who get messed up will then find this forum and ask for help. 

Much less the scenerios like "My Davis console just broke, and I purchased a new one from Davis, and now my Davis logger won't work...."

[What's the Davis trade-in policy for Davis loggers?]

John, I recognize that this isn't your fault, and you don't have answers - thanks for sharing what you do know.

[d_l]

That looks to me like a total Davis Support Disaster.

I would imagine that Davis would incorporate some sort of version checker within the firmware upgrader to prevent this sort of thing.

[dalecoy]

That looks to me like a total Davis Support Disaster.

I would imagine that Davis would incorporate some sort of version checker within the firmware upgrader to prevent this sort of thing.

It should be possible to make sure that a "new version logger" is being used to update the firmware.  That doesn't resolve the problem of replacing an old console with a new one (while keeping an old Davis logger), nor related problems of purchasing components from different sources. 

"I just purchased this logger on eBay and it doesn't work with my console.  [Who is at fault - the seller who didn't know? - the buyer who didn't ask?....]

And of course, support problems of "Hey, Davis, why can't I install the latest firmware?"

Obviously, there could be a firmware updater that detects "old logger" and simply just changes the firmware version number without installing the new protective code......

Making things even more complicated and confusing doesn't necessarily reduce support requirements.

[d_l]

Making things even more complicated and confusing doesn't necessarily reduce support requirements.

Davis made a major change from VP1 to VP2 and they sell US and foreign frequency equipment. They have the differences well labeled on their web site and their authorized dealers also make customers aware of the differences.

If the new version firmware loggers are firmware incompatible with the older receivers, perhaps Davis will change the electrical connectors on all new equipment.

[dalecoy]

OK, (and based on limited information), we have an honest difference of opinion.  I'm saying it's going to be a support "nightmare", and (my interpretation) you are saying it's not going to be a big deal.

I will be happy to be proved wrong.

[Weather Display]

or maybe Davis have checks in place so no problems

[docbee]

Just to keep you in sync with the German forum, where discussion started. Users there do now also report of their "old" Davis loggers being incompatible with the new firmware. It remains still quite unclear what type of loggers from Davis are v3.00 compatible. So it is not a direct attack to competition but looks more like an attack aiming primary at the wallets of their existing user base.

[johnd]

...So it is not a direct attack to competition but looks more like an attack aiming primary at the wallets of their existing user base.

Sounds like you discount the possibility that this could be related to new firmware features and/or software?

[Weather Display]

oh
so it seems they did not have a system check in place to not allow a firmware update if an old data logger in use?

[johnd]

Please: All the information that we have right now is that there is a new revision of VP2** consoles which appears on the face of it not to be compatible with pre-2011 loggers. Any other comment is just speculation right now, which might or might not be proved correct. I'd really like to think that Davis wouldn't be doing this (i) without offering some material benefit to new users; and (ii) without creating the potential for a major support headache for existing users. Perhaps we might need to wait until the new catalogue is released around the turn of the year to see what's in store?

**And Vue consoles too, which also have the rev 3.00 F/W: These new v1.1 'M' revision Vue models were also in our shipment today.