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General Weather/Earth Sciences Topics => Earth Sciences => Topic started by: SFX on September 24, 2019, 03:31:31 PM

Title: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on September 24, 2019, 03:31:31 PM
http://theactualtides.blogspot.com/2015/11/why-two-bulge-idea-isnt-real.html?m=1

You know why


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Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: waiukuweather on September 24, 2019, 05:03:37 PM
ohh,very interesting :)
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on September 28, 2019, 12:15:05 PM
https://i.imgur.com/rXGQu.gif
The moving gray bars are where the “bulge” would be, if there were two bulges


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Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on September 30, 2019, 02:23:15 AM
There is no "water theory of the tides".  The old theory of the tides (Newton) was displaced by the Dynamic theory of the tides.   But please never stop promoting your new theory. 
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: Fermer05 on October 28, 2019, 08:35:27 PM
Wikipedia explains the tidal physics in many languages ​​of the world, and different formulas are written in each language, and in some languages ​​there are no formulas at all.
And there are no real, digital calculations of the tidal heights of a particular bay or coast.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide
By the degree of discrepancy of a particular theory, one can judge the degree of inaccuracy of the theory.
In Wikipedia and the encyclopedia, gravitational and centrifugal forces are equally explained in all languages.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_force
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on November 02, 2019, 09:51:10 AM
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=rdfbo4c7vaqvlo43gsc8bohr84&topic=70010.msg2212095#msg2212095
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: waiukuweather on November 02, 2019, 02:14:11 PM
whats the story with the links with all the % in it
and do really need all these obvious copy and paste posts by Fermer05 admins?
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: galfert on November 08, 2019, 09:27:55 AM
whats the story with the links with all the % in it
and do really need all these obvious copy and paste posts by Fermer05 admins?

It is just what happens when you paste a URL link that has special characters. The original URL did not have these % symbols. The original URL had Russian letters. These letters can not be displayed in the text editor of the forum so when you paste the link it converts the Russian characters into URL encoding or also called Percent encoding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percent-encoding

Basically it is limitation of not being able to display the original character set and how it then gets handled.

The trouble is that some of those percent encoded URLs have spaces introduced which I don't know why...so you can't really click on them because they are incomplete. I suppose you could highlight and copy, then paste into browser address bar and then delete extra spaces before activating the link.

It is common to sometimes see percent encoding with a URL even if the character set is not different. This often occurs when the URL is part of a server path that include real spaces. Since a URL can't have spaces then the space is converted into its percent encoding equivalent and that is why you often see %20. A space is ascii character number 32 decimal which corresponds to 20 in hexadecimal, which explains why a space is %20.

Therefore the way it works is that in a URL when a % symbol is seen by the browser it then knows that what follows is a hexadecimal number corresponding to the character for the next place in the URL.
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: Fermer05 on November 10, 2019, 02:06:48 PM
There is no "water theory of the tides".  The old theory of the tides (Newton) was displaced by the Dynamic theory of the tides.   But please never stop promoting your new theory.
Criticism of the lunar theory of the tides.

According to the Static theory of tides, the lunar tidal wave moves from east to west after the moon, at a speed of 1600 km / h, circling the Earth in 24 hours, filling only the eastern coast of the continents. But through the centuries it was discovered.
1. What does the lunar tidal wave flood both the western, southern and northern shores of the continents?
2. That the tidal wave speed of 1600 km / h is detrimental to both continents and marine fauna?
3. What at the same time, not two tidal humps are functioning all over the globe, but more than a hundred, regardless of the location of the moon?
4. That for some reason abnormally high tides are formed in half-closed bays, where there is no direct access to the tidal wave. And in the bays open to the tidal wave, are there no tides at all, or are they small? https://youtu.be/NqDEaFjIXPw

Later, a dynamic theory of tides was proposed, which was supposed to answer all the questions posed.
According to the Dynamic Tidal Theory, a lunar tidal wave travels at a speed of 1600 km / h. Crashing into continents, islands and shoals, a tidal wave slows down and breaks up into numerous secondary tidal waves.
Then, under the influence of interference and the Coriolis force, secondary tidal waves begin to rotate, due to which ebbs and flows are formed.
Amphidromic point https://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/ruwiki/1727386
Dynamic Theory http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/645fall2003_web.dir/Ellie_Boyce/dynamic.htm
The movement pattern of the secondary tidal wave, from the North Atlantic to the White Sea. https://www.esr.org/research/polar-tide-models/movies/

But the dynamic theory of tides does not answer all the questions posed.
1. The assertion that due to interference tidal waves begin to rotate around islands and shallows is doubtful.
https://bigenc.ru/physics/text/2015011 https://youtu.be/616RtVpN5dU
2. The claim that “secondary tidal waves” move against the movement of the moon from west to east is also questionable.
Coriolis force is too weak to deploy tidal waves and tsunamis.
3. According to the dynamic theory of tides, tides are formed only around islands and shoals, and not in the seas and bays.
4. In the atmosphere, the dynamic theory of the tides should work wonders, because the atmosphere is much easier to move than water.
In places where tidal waves collide, something unimaginable must happen.
5. While the tidal wave makes one revolution around the Earth, the Moon makes two turns, how is the gravitational connection between the Moon and the tidal hump?
6. In order for the lunar tidal hump to exist, the inhomogeneity of the gravitational field is necessary, and for this, the moon must always be above the hump, otherwise the hump will fall apart?
7. In the Dynamic theory of tides, the concept of an applied hour is introduced, from 0 to 12 - the time the tidal wave lags behind the moon, due to friction against the bottom of the ocean.
9. If the applied hour is zero, this means that there is no tidal wave friction on the ocean floor, and the wave speed is 1600 km / h, and if the applied hour is 12, this means that the friction reduced the tidal wave speed to 800 km / h.
Why is there a tidal wave friction on the bottom of the ocean in one area and not in another?
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on November 12, 2019, 10:29:47 AM
The height of the tidal wave in the open ocean according to the "dynamic theory of tides" is about 0.5 meters, and the speed is from 800 to 1600 km / h.
No, there is no tide moving faster than the speed of sound.  Friction with the ocean floor limits the speed of a wave, and since a tide is a very long wave, there is no place on the planet where a long wave moves that fast.  It's one reason the actual tides are amphidromic systems, because physics.

It's right at the top of the page
Quote
Tides are shallow water waves, a shallow-water wave  speed is controlled by depth of ocean
http://theactualtides.blogspot.com/2015/11/why-two-bulge-idea-isnt-real.html?m=1
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: Fermer05 on November 12, 2019, 01:46:23 PM
Tides, Russian and English versions.
http://gatchina3000.ru/big/083/83105_brockhaus-efron.htm
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Tide
The ebb and flow is the result of the rotation of the Earth and the gyres.
English forum. "Weather/Earth sciences" https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35094.0
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on November 16, 2019, 07:47:05 AM
It must be a language problem
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: Fermer05 on January 06, 2020, 10:04:58 AM
According to the lunar theory of tides in temperate zones, tidal force raises the earth's crust to a height of 20 cm, at the equator - 50 cm.
Then why, in the equatorial zone, the tides are three times lower than in the temperate zones?
The maximum height of the tides in the temperate zones is:
1. The Bay of Fundy in North America - 18 m.
2. The mouth of the Severn River in England - 16 m.
3. Bay of Mont Saint-Michel in France - 15 m.
The maximum tidal height in the equatorial zone is:
1. about. Maraca Brazil - 9 m.
2. Balboa Panama - 5 m.
3. Zanzibar Tanzania - 3.5 m.
Information about the tides in some ports of the world.
https://www.krugosvet.ru/enc/Earth_sciences/geografiya/PRILIVI_I_OTLIVI.html
According to the lunar theory of tides, abnormally high tides up to 40 meters high should occur at the equator and not in temperate zones.
The tidal cycle theory explains this discrepancy by the absence of the Coriolis force at the equator, necessary for the formation of cycles, cyclones and anticyclones.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a0730201f0f095995e9cc6c7c9875519
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on January 14, 2020, 11:40:41 AM
It must be a language problem




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Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: galfert on January 15, 2020, 10:03:34 AM
SFX,
You ever feel like you opened a can of worms?
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on January 15, 2020, 01:52:22 PM
Nah

I knew in advance it would make sense to most people


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Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on January 16, 2020, 11:57:09 AM
Quote from: Fermer05 link=topic=37892.msg396819#
According to the Static theory of tides, the lunar tidal wave moves from east to west after the moon at a speed of 1600 km / h

According to the Dynamic Tidal Theory, a lunar tidal wave moves after the moon at a speed of 1600 km / h.
Error

The dynamic theory does not say that


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Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on January 16, 2020, 12:00:31 PM
Friction with the ocean floor means there can never be a supersonic tide wave following the moon

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/645fall2003_web.dir/Ellie_Boyce/dynamic.htm


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Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: Fermer05 on January 17, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
Friction with the ocean floor means there can never be a supersonic tide wave following the moon

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/645fall2003_web.dir/Ellie_Boyce/dynamic.htm


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In the Tidal Static Theory, the friction of the tidal wave against the ocean floor was not taken into account, and the speed of the tidal wave in the oceans and on the continents was considered constant - 1600 km / h.

In the Dynamic theory of tides, there is the concept of an applied hour, from 0 to 12 - the time the tidal wave lags behind the moon, due to friction on the bottom of the ocean.
But how to calculate the applied hour is not clear.
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on February 08, 2020, 03:28:36 PM
In the Dynamic theory of tides, there is the concept of an applied hour, from 0 to 12 - the time the tidal wave lags behind the moon, due to friction on the bottom of the ocean.
No, that it isn't the dynamic theory of Laplace. 

The modern theory of tides (still being worked on) takes into account the theory of standing oscillations (amphidromic systems), the theory of resonance between the natural oscillation periods of water masses and cyclic rhythms of the astronomical disturbing forces.  (which can be predicted accurately)

And the modern theory uses the application of gyroscopic principles to determine the effect of the earth’s rotation upon these water masses, which are set in motion horizontally by hydraulic factors, due to the differences in level of the sea surface induced by the attractive forces. 

But how to calculate the applied hour is not clear.
It is clear, and because calculations are not exact, observation of the actual tides is required to be able to predict the actual tides.  31 years of observation is required.

But what I find most interesting is that so very many people still think/believe there are two tides a day because of twin bulges following the moon.  And they try to explain the second bulge using bad science.  It's bad because it just isn't true.

Quote
Why are there two high tides and two low tides each day? If the moon is primarily responsible for the tides, why are there two high tides and two low tides each day in most places, for example, the U.S. eastern seaboard? It seems as if there should just be one. If you picture the part of Earth closest to the moon, it’s easy to see that the ocean is drawn toward the moon. That’s because gravity depends in part on how close two objects are.

But then why – on the opposite side of Earth – is there another tidal bulge, in the direction opposite the moon? It seems counterintuitive, until you realize that this second bulge happens at the part of Earth where the moon’s gravity is pulling the least.
https://earthsky.org/earth/tides-and-the-pull-of-the-moon-and-sun

No, that isn't why there are two tides a day in some locations.  There is never two bulges, two giant humps of water moving around the globe. Much less a bulge opposite the moon because of "gravity pulling the least".

Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: Fermer05 on February 11, 2020, 04:29:02 PM
In the Dynamic theory of tides, there is the concept of an applied hour, from 0 to 12 - the time the tidal wave lags behind the moon, due to friction on the bottom of the ocean.
No, that it isn't the dynamic theory of Laplace. 
A holistic dynamic theory of tides has not yet been written; research is underway.
For this reason, a complete workable dynamic theory of tides cannot be found on the Internet.
At the same time, the dynamic theory of the tides is considered the main theory, it is taught in educational institutions on it make calendars of tides.
According to the dynamic theory of tides, the lunar tidal wave moves from east to west at a speed of 800 to 1600 km / h. Crashing into the continents, part of the wave scatters in place, and the reflected part rotates around the ocean due to the Coriolis effect.
Dynamic theory of the tides. http://www.iupui.edu/~g115/mod12/lecture07.html
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on February 14, 2020, 12:48:55 AM
In the Dynamic theory of tides, there is the concept of an applied hour, from 0 to 12 - the time the tidal wave lags behind the moon, due to friction on the bottom of the ocean.
No, that it isn't the dynamic theory of Laplace. 
According to the dynamic theory of tides, the lunar tidal wave moves from east to west at a speed of 800 to 1600 km / h.
that is completely wrong



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Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on February 14, 2020, 02:46:11 PM
I screwed up the quoting. 

According to the dynamic theory of tides, the lunar tidal wave moves from east to west at a speed of 800 to 1600 km / h.
that is completely wrong


Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: waiukuweather on February 14, 2020, 03:57:14 PM
that speed will be the speed of earths rotation
but obviously the wave does not travel that fast (although tsunami waves can travel 800kmh in the deep ocean)
but if it went at half that speed does that go someway to explaining why there are 2 tides a day?
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: Fermer05 on February 15, 2020, 10:23:34 AM
There is no "water theory of the tides".  The old theory of the tides (Newton) was displaced by the Dynamic theory of the tides.   But please never stop promoting your new theory.
You can give a link to the source where you studied the dynamic theory of tides.
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on February 18, 2020, 10:54:36 PM
SFX,
You ever feel like you opened a can of worms?

On another forum, there was a argument over the tides that started in 2009.  (my fault, I pointed out some tide stuff was not correct)

It went on for 7 years.

Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on February 18, 2020, 10:55:18 PM
I wish I could say that is a joke.  But it's actually true.
Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: saratogaWX on February 19, 2020, 03:30:13 PM
Lots of interesting discussions on the subject of tides.

I found this PBS Space/Time on Tides (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwChk4S99i4) very helpful.

Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on February 20, 2020, 02:10:02 AM
The thing that really really isn't true about the tides, is the one thing almost every "authority" is wrong about.  It's also the thing most people object to, or find hard to understand.  And that is understandable, since it isn't true.  Nor can it be true,

Quote
Why is There a Tidal Bulge Opposite the Moon?
https://science.nasa.gov/why-there-tidal-bulge-opposite-moon

There is no bulge opposite the moon, and there is no bulge under the moon,  Much less two bulges racing around the planet following the moon.

Quote
What Does the Pull of the Moon Do to the Oceans?
The gravitational pull of the moon creates two types of tides: high and low. A tidal bulge occurs in the oceans on the side of the earth nearest the moon; a second tidal bulge occurs on the far side of the earth. These bulges are high tides. The areas between the tidal bulges experience low tide.
http://www.mbgnet.net/salt/sandy/tide.htm

That just isn't how it is.  And it can't be that way, because physics.

Title: Re: The actual ocean tides explained
Post by: SFX on February 20, 2020, 02:13:43 AM
To make it even harder to follow, the solid earth, (and the moon), do deform, because of gravity (the tides).

But the ocean tides are nothing like the solid earth tide.  Except for the fact that the moon and sun are the main factors in causing both.