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Weather Station Hardware => What Weather Station Should I Buy? => Topic started by: Parke10 on March 12, 2018, 04:25:42 AM

Title: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 12, 2018, 04:25:42 AM
Hello everyone,

I've been a lurker here for quite some time, even more so as of recently when I decided I finally wanted to pull the trigger on purchasing my own weather station.

So... of course even after reading other posts until I'm cross eyed i'll still beat the dead horse of trying to figure out if i want to purchase the Davis Vue or VP2.

I have 99% decided whichever route I decide to go, I'll most likely be getting the VP2 console. Personally I just like the look of that console better. I'm not sure how accurate the 24-48 hour ticker is but if its any good that would be another advantage too.

So first question would be, does anyone have any reasons they think I would be making the wrong choice by running a VP2 console over a Vue console other than it being slightly more expensive?

Second question is, for my location of Bakersfield, Ca-93308 ( for those of you who know it don't laugh too much ](*,) ) which console do you feel would be better here? Its a low humidity, snows once every 25-30 years, 3-7 inches or rain a year desert like area where summers are brutal in the sense of its not uncommon to have 110-ish degree days and winters consist of high 30s to low 40s at night with a handful of days in the low 20's. Altitude is 450ft or so.

Would the Vue ISS read accurately ? If not how off do you feel it would be?

If a VP2 is a must, do you feel the fan is a must have?

I don't really see myself having any use for the UV sensor or the solar radiation sensor. Am I crazy here?

Last but not least, it seems rainmanweather has the best prices, is this the case or are there other places I should be looking?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Intheswamp on March 12, 2018, 07:47:19 AM
Welcome to the forum!  There's some sharp folks here that will help you out on your questions, I'm sure.  In the meantime, my two-cents worth. :)

If you have the option, then I'd go with the VP2...it just makes sense to me.  With the anemometer not being built into the ISS you can raise it to a more favorable height while still keeping the rain gauge and humidity/temp sensors down lower at the recommended height for them. 

I don't know what to tell you between the two consoles...if you purchase the VP2 ISS then you'll have the console that comes with it...if you purchase the Vue then you get the console that comes with it.  :?: The Vue console is limited (I'm pretty sure) to the sensors built into the Vue ISS.

I personally think, that if finances aren't a deciding issue, then the VP2 is the route to take...being able to separate the anemometer from the ISS and the ability to add on miscellaneous sensors is a very good capability.

Plastic doesn't like high UV locations.  The Davis units seem to hold up well, though over several years you will see degradation in the plastic.  But, lesser weather stations are known to become brittle and need parts replacement or total system replacement in the same period of time.  The Davis units are of very good quality, but they don't have space shuttle tile coverings so they will deteriorate over time.

I would think that in your area there is lots of solar power users/generators and also lots of irrigation for gardens and crops.  The solar sensor really shines (no pun intended<g>) in providing data for those applications.  To me, the UV sensor is a novelty more than a really useful sensor and is a good bit more expensive than the solar sensor.  If you think you want these sensors definitely purchase the VP2+ rather than the standard VP2...purchasing the sensors "after the fact" will be much more expensive.  Purchasing only the solar sensor afterward isn't too bad, though.  So, if you want all the bells and whistles then go for the VP2.

Ryan at scaledinstruments.com is a great person and is noted for his customer service.
https://www.scaledinstruments.com/discount-price-list/

Best wishes,
Ed
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Felix1 on March 12, 2018, 09:04:42 AM
Reverse order answers.


Rainmanweather has good whole-station prices to get your attention but don't forget to factor in shipping and sales tax if applicable. For example, I dropped the Davis 6163 in my basket for grins and the cheapest delivery was 44 bucks. And that made Scientific Sales a slightly better deal since wx stations ship free. Plus Ryan of Scientific Sales is well known in the weather community, typically ships same day, stands behind what he sells and is a genuinely nice person to talk to on the phone if you want to get a feel for what problem areas a high-volume retailer sees among the various brands/models. Plus he has the largest supply of Davis repair parts outside of Davis Instruments, the company.


There are a couple other deep discounters of Davis products which you'll find once you settle on the model number you want and start searching specifically for it.


The Vue after all is an entry-level; albeit very capable, weather station with decent quality sensors but limited flexibility as far as sensor placements. For example, as you know, the anemometer is part of the unit. And you have limited expandability options. If you have any inkling whatsoever that you'll eventually get into this hobby in a big way, do yourself a favor and find the bucks to go with the much more capable VP2 right off the bat. You'll end up spending lots less in the long run.


If you haven't already looked at the specs pages to compare the published sensor accuracies, here you go:


https://www.davisnet.com/product_documents/weather/spec_sheets/6250_6351_57_SS.pdf


https://www.davisnet.com/product_documents/weather/spec_sheets/6152_62_53_63_SS.pdf


Consoles, don't have an opinion, I've never used a Vue console. You've obviously already figured out the VP2 console is usable with the Vue but you'd have to buy it extra.


Considering your location, your temp measurements will be more accurate if you have a fan-aspirated station. Now how important is that to you personally? Your call. Pay attention to the OAT accuracy spec sheets above and consider the cost trade-offs.


Last item, the spec sheet on the VP2 will give you an idea of whether the UV and solar radiation sensors are worth the $200+ extra cost. For example, I track daily evapotranspiration versus rainfall (along with leaf sensors and ground moisture sensors) to gauge how much lawn and English Garden irrigation will be required. To track evapotranspiration (ETo) requires the solar radiation sensor.   
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: SLOweather on March 12, 2018, 09:44:53 AM
Maybe you meant Ryan at Scaled Instruments?
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: PaulMy on March 12, 2018, 10:04:03 AM
I have the VP2.  I also decided to get the Envoy to connect USB datalogger to computer so the VP2 console just sits in the kitchen.  Look at it on occasion - maybe 3 - 4 times a week as I have my websites visible by other devices.  I recently bought a new Vue console because it was very cheap, $80, (before import duties, $exchange, and shipping cost to me :( ).  So now I have all 3, and I prefer what I can see on the VP2 console compared to the Vue.  However the Vue console is a neater little package to sit on a shelf of desk.

Paul
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Felix1 on March 12, 2018, 12:48:42 PM
Thanks, SLOweather.


Brain fart.   :oops:
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Skywatch on March 13, 2018, 02:02:11 AM
Welcome!

Before I graduated to Davis instruments I initially was after the Vue when it came out in 2009. On the advice of a good friend of mine I saved up a little more and bought a Pro2 and that was probably some of the best advice I've gotten.

When you get familiar with the system you'll appreciate the flexibility and expandability depending on how you intend to use the station requires different siting practices. You can read more on that elsewhere on this forum.

In regards to the solar and UV sensors, you probably won't know how useful the information is until you actually have it. I initially bought my station as the base model without those sun sensors and I added them later and now I couldn't imagine being without the solar information.

Personally I find the solar sensor more useful than the UV sensor for the reasons already stated.

BTW, who's selling the solar sensor for over 200$? Don't buy from whoever that is. Scaled Instruments sells them for 122$ I should mention it's cheaper to buy the Plus model then upgrade later.

Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: sward6368 on March 13, 2018, 11:46:52 AM
I was in the same position as the OP earlier this year.  Decided to spend the extra $ on the VP2, 24hr FARS, but decided against the VP2+.  By the time I added the IP data logger and additional wireless transmitter for the anemometer I was at my budget top end.  Maybe one year in the future I will add on the solar radiation sensor.

I ended up with the VP2 over  the Vue for the ability to mount the anemometer at a different location and the more substantial radiation shield.  So far am pleased with my decision.

My only complaint on the console is the contrast is poor so I frequently have to turn on the back light to read it (turning back off to not impact the internal temp readings).  I typically only look briefly at the console when getting up in the morning to see temp / wind speed etc.  to determine what to wear.  The vast majority of the time I am either using the iPhone app or Weatherlink 2.0 web page to view the current conditions and trends.

As someone else noted, rainmanweather while having the best prices had very high shipping rates for even ground shipping.  Scientific Sales had the best pricing when taking into account their free shipping.  The ISS arrived in several days, the separate IP data logger arrived about a week later.  When I contacted Scientific Sales about not receiving the IP data logger originally, they responded quickly and apologized that they had depleted their stock.  I found at that time Amazon had the best price on the separate wireless anemometer transmitter.

Oh, while I knew it from the pictures, the size of the VP2 is much larger than the Vue, seems much larger when I actually had it in hand than I it looked from the various pictures.  Just something to think about depending on where you plan to locate the WS.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: zackdog on March 13, 2018, 03:35:45 PM
This will give you some idea of the differences in the data you will get with the two units.  The VP2 Plus has a 24 hr FARS and is located about 12 ft above the ground, with the anemometer at 17 ft.  The VantageVue is located  5 ft above the ground and about 2 ft horizontally from the VP2.

Mark

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Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 14, 2018, 02:51:36 AM
As expected, nothing but quick, informative responses! Thank you to everyone who has replied so far!! It's a ton of help, but somehow making the choice harder and easier at that same time  ](*,) Doh!

I saw that someone mentioned my intended use for the station. I basically want a set it and forget it unit, it will be just a hobby and another "toy" to have. That's part of why I was leaning towards the Vue, which is surprisingly what Davis themselves recommended.

Regardless of what unit I go with I will have very limited space to put it and may actually have to mount it on the roof, I've read in some places that this would be okay as long as I mount it 5ish feet above the peak roof line. That would probably be achievable with the Vue but may be a little more bulky/eye sore with the VP2. Which leads to the possibility of getting the transmitter for the anemometer ( further raising the price ) and just mounting that on the roof.

Mounting either at the 5-6 ft above the ground level just wouldn't make sense as far as the anemometer as my backyard situation is House blocking the North, 6 ft fence to the East and South, Garage to the West. The house is about 1,400 sq ft, 9,000sq ft lot and has 16 solar panels on the roof.




So I guess with all this rambling my question is, with either unit how inaccurate are the temp/rain reading if mounting them higher up than the recommended level.

To me since its just a hobby, although I'd like accurate readings.. I could probably settle for them being a little off. Although Zackdogs's post actually shows more discrepancy than I'd like to see.

I suppose if I get the Vue ( which I would probably regret ) I could always move that to the office or beach house and upgrade to the VP2.

Are any of my thoughts making sense or is this just one big ramble?
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Bushman on March 14, 2018, 03:41:43 PM
"Buy once - cry once" like my Dad used to say!  Or forget Davis and pick up a second or third tier device for the 1/3 cost.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: vreihen on March 14, 2018, 06:42:14 PM
My late father used to say that the best way to avoid buyer's remorse was to buy the best option of any item.  It is worth noting that he had a wired Davis anemometer on the roof of his house in 1990.

On the Vue front, maybe this picture of my Acu-Rite 5-in-1 will make your decision easier about all-in-one sensors:

(https://images.hvtraffic.com/images/2017/12/11/20171211145649-843925ea.jpg)

I have dozens more just like it from this month alone, and will probably have more with nor'easter #4 in the 7-day model runs.  Do you think that a VP2 anemometer will clog with snow?????
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 14, 2018, 10:13:00 PM
Vreihen, although that picture is amusing :lol: haha, I don't have much worry here in the sense of snow as the last time it snowed here was January 25th 1999, and that was only about 6inches.

I've narrowed my options basically down to either way I go they will have to be mounted to the roof of my house. The back yard is just so small and closed in that there no reasonable place to put it besides the roof.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 14, 2018, 11:26:54 PM
Well I went to purchase the VP2 FARS from scaled, but its out of stock. Damn it!
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Bushman on March 15, 2018, 01:32:20 AM
Another of Dad's axioms:  "Never buy the first model year of ANYTHING!".  That one is one worth remembering, especially with cars and tech.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Mattk on March 15, 2018, 05:41:25 AM
This will give you some idea of the differences in the data you will get with the two units.  The VP2 Plus has a 24 hr FARS and is located about 12 ft above the ground, with the anemometer at 17 ft.  The VantageVue is located  5 ft above the ground and about 2 ft horizontally from the VP2.

Mark

That doesn't make a lot of sense re the rainfall, by rights a rain gauge is best at ground level, the Vue is @ 5 feet, the VP2 @ 12 feet, the difference just isn't right?
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Intheswamp on March 15, 2018, 10:19:39 AM
This will give you some idea of the differences in the data you will get with the two units.  The VP2 Plus has a 24 hr FARS and is located about 12 ft above the ground, with the anemometer at 17 ft.  The VantageVue is located  5 ft above the ground and about 2 ft horizontally from the VP2.

Mark

That doesn't make a lot of sense re the rainfall, by rights a rain gauge is best at ground level, the Vue is @ 5 feet, the VP2 @ 12 feet, the difference just isn't right?
The "Max Rain" in the summary down at the bottom...even though the two stations might each record a different amount, shouldn't both stations have the maximum rainfall recorded on the same day?  :-?   And, looking in the chart the Vue's maximum rainfall day is the 13th and shows .15" whereas the VP2 for that day only shows .01".   Likewise for the comparison of the VP2's max rainfall on the 5th as compared to the Vue's.  Odd.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: zackdog on March 15, 2018, 11:15:14 AM
Okay, okay, the rainfall, or should I say melted snow, is totally wrong on the Vue while the VP2 has the rain collector heater.  I correct the rainfall amounts on the VP2 to match my CoCoRAHS readings.  Also, the HDD for the Vue are correct, but the HDD for the VP2 are actually freezing degree days and the CDD are thawing degree days.Sorry for the confusion.

Mark

P.S.  I normally do not have the Vue up during the winter, but I only put it up to check reception of it with the VP2 console during a cold month.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 15, 2018, 02:17:56 PM
Well that makes a little more sense, I was convinced the vue was completely inaccurate based on those rainfall numbers your data was showing. I immediately disowned the Vue after seeing that.  Might have to give it a second thought now. But like I stated above, regardless of which unit I go with Iím stuck to mounting it somewhere near the roof.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: jas340 on March 16, 2018, 10:28:29 PM
Go with the Vantage Vue. You will love it. It's main shortcomings are with snow and ice. Not a problem for you. Also the barometer is worthless if you live at higher elevations(3830ft for me). Again, not a problem for you. I started with an Oregon Scientific WMR-968.I had it for 5 years. Then went to the Vue for 6 years. Now I have Vaisala WXT510 which I plan on using until it's technology becomes available at a lower price point and is wireless.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 17, 2018, 12:55:25 AM
Go with the Vantage Vue. You will love it. It's main shortcomings are with snow and ice. Not a problem for you. Also the barometer is worthless if you live at higher elevations(3830ft for me). Again, not a problem for you. I started with an Oregon Scientific WMR-968.I had it for 5 years. Then went to the Vue for 6 years. Now I have Vaisala WXT510 which I plan on using until it's technology becomes available at a lower price point and is wireless.

Honestly the Vue seems like a great home hobby unit and I originally was only looking at it and not even considering the VP2, the Vue with VP2 console is what the Davis guys have recommended to me over the phone and in person while at the world ag expo.


BUT with how small the radiation shield is, and the lack of a fan for it... Iím pretty worried that in the hotter time of year, which is about 6-7 months long.. that the number will pretty inaccurate as far as temperature goes.

The Davis guys who are familiar with my town assure me that a slight breeze will solve the problem but Iím still skeptical on that. 100+ degrees for a couple a months and 80-90 for the rest of the hot months seems like it will play havoc on the data.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: PaulMy on March 17, 2018, 09:29:10 AM
Quote
the Vue with VP2 console is what the Davis guys have recommended to me over the phone and in person while at the world ag expo.
That doesn't sound right to me.  What is the benefit of the higher cost VP2 console with a Vue ISS.  If anything, the other way around unless you will add extra sensors.

Enjoy,
Paul
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: vreihen on March 17, 2018, 10:14:22 AM
Aesthetics.  Popular opinion is that the VP2 console looks better and is easier on the eyes.....
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 17, 2018, 05:07:36 PM
Aesthetics.  Popular opinion is that the VP2 console looks better and is easier on the eyes.....

Exactly, the Vue console makes me feel like Iím stuck in the early 90ís and although the VP2 Console is dated. itís far better looking. Someone who is getting a Vue wouldnít care about  additional sensors most likely.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Old Tele man on March 17, 2018, 05:42:47 PM
NOTE - VP2 console can NOT transmit ALT-barometric pressure that CWOP expects to receive; the VUE console, however, CAN transmit ALT-baro pressure, should you wish to send it.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 17, 2018, 08:29:02 PM
NOTE - VP2 console can NOT transmit ALT-barometric pressure that CWOP expects to receive; the VUE console, however, CAN transmit ALT-baro pressure, should you wish to send it.

True some guys me included you and Jim have also purchased the Vue console just for accurate altimeter.
If you live below about 1000' it's generally a none issue but for the rest of us it's a big deal. The VP2 console half way fix for altimeter is set elevation at 0' and match nearby accurate altimeter (airport). This works kind of but still off when pressure goes real high or low. 

As far as which unit I wouldn't want a Vue station if they were giving them away. For the average guy however not even sure if they like watching the weather its a good starter unit.
 
However if you do enjoy it you may regret not getting the much more versatile and accurate vp2 with aspiration, especially if living in one of the hot regions. 
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: waiukuweather on March 17, 2018, 09:28:32 PM
software can get the needed data out of a VP2 console to calculate altimeter barometer for CWOP though
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 17, 2018, 10:02:48 PM
True several softwares can correct pressure and upload correct altimeter to CWOP. But its limited and won't change what you actually see on console display or software dashboards many use.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: waiukuweather on March 17, 2018, 11:45:29 PM
but some software it can be set that the altimeter value that is calculated and set to be sent to CWOP can be set to be used as the default barometer reading for all data for the software (ie so ends up in templates/dashboards, etc)
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 18, 2018, 03:39:16 AM
but some software it can be set that the altimeter value that is calculated and set to be sent to CWOP can be set to be used as the default barometer reading for all data for the software (ie so ends up in templates/dashboards, etc)

Really I had no idea that could be done. What software?
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: PaulMy on March 18, 2018, 11:12:47 AM
Probably WD ;)
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: vreihen on March 18, 2018, 01:58:20 PM
https://github.com/weewx/weewx/wiki/Barometer,-pressure,-and-altimeter (https://github.com/weewx/weewx/wiki/Barometer,-pressure,-and-altimeter)
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: SlowModem on March 19, 2018, 08:27:21 PM
I know I'm late to the party, but I thought I'd throw in my $0.02.

I've had OS, LaCrosse, and Davis stations.  I have a VP2 and a Vue.  I'm about to sell the VP2 to a friend that wants to start in the weather station vortex of debt.

Personally, I prefer the Vue.  It's all in one and easy to work on.  I don't have it way up in the air, because I want to know what's happening where I'm at.  I never look at the console.  I look at the data on PWS Weather, CWOP, or WU.  I do prefer the Vue console to the VP2 console (the VP2 console is at my parents house on the property so they can see the weather data).  The Vue has performed flawlessly since I installed it.

The picture of the snow reminded me of a video a member posted several years ago of his Vue after a snow in the Atlanta area.  It's like a Timex:  takes a licking and keeps on ticking.


It all boils down to personal preference, and how deep you want to get into this.  I'm a "set it and forget it" kind of guy.  Some people like to tinker with stuff every day.  Some people want to monitor the sun or soil wetness or whatever.  Get a Vue, and if you want more, regift it to a relative or friend.  :)

Good luck and happy weather watching!  :)

My late father used to say that the best way to avoid buyer's remorse was to buy the best option of any item.  It is worth noting that he had a wired Davis anemometer on the roof of his house in 1990.

On the Vue front, maybe this picture of my Acu-Rite 5-in-1 will make your decision easier about all-in-one sensors:

(https://images.hvtraffic.com/images/2017/12/11/20171211145649-843925ea.jpg)

I have dozens more just like it from this month alone, and will probably have more with nor'easter #4 in the 7-day model runs.  Do you think that a VP2 anemometer will clog with snow?????
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: CW2274 on March 19, 2018, 08:43:50 PM
Personally, I prefer the Vue.  It's all in one and easy to work on.
Totally get the preference thing, and I've never owned a Vue ISS (do own the console and use it exclusively), but easier to work on than a VP2 ISS? The VP2 is so modular that replacing everything is child's play.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: SlowModem on March 19, 2018, 08:53:59 PM
Personally, I prefer the Vue.  It's all in one and easy to work on.
Totally get the preference thing, and I've never owned a Vue ISS (do own the console and use it exclusively), but easier to work on than a VP2 ISS? The VP2 is so modular that replacing everything is child's play.

I think so.  The rain tipper just drops out the bottom.  However, I haven't had to do extensive repairs on it (and hopefully won't).
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 19, 2018, 09:24:31 PM
The only thing really holding me back from purchasing a Vue at this point is the lack of FARS, my mindset is stuck on it being inaccurate when its 100+ degrees outside. Although since Scientific sales won't answer the phone or return my e-mails its given me a bit more time to think about it. Although at this point I wish I had SOMETHING since were supposed to get more rain this week than we usually do in a year.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: CW2274 on March 19, 2018, 10:01:20 PM
The only thing really holding me back from purchasing a Vue at this point is the lack of FARS
I'm in Tucson. Not getting the VP2 with at least DFARS would be a huge mistake IMHO unless the wind literally blows all day long there all year long. FARS is not necessarily for hot climates, it's to overcome lack of sufficient wind to properly vent the sensor chamber be it 115F or 35F. Common misconception that FARS is only for hot climates, it just helps more so if you live in one.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: CW2274 on March 19, 2018, 10:43:21 PM
Scientific sales won't answer the phone or return my e-mails
As just about all of us here, this is where we shop. Ryan is whom you deal with, best prices to your door.
https://www.scaledinstruments.com/
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 20, 2018, 12:46:17 AM
I'm in Tucson. Not getting the VP2 with at least DFARS would be a huge mistake IMHO unless the wind literally blows all day long there all year long. FARS is not necessarily for hot climates, it's to overcome lack of sufficient wind to properly vent the sensor chamber be it 115F or 35F. Common misconception that FARS is only for hot climates, it just helps more so if you live in one.

I guess I should have made myself a little more clear on that, We get a breeze here and there in the summer but for the most part its pretty Stagnant air. So what you're explaining is my reasoning behind wanting it. No so much that its miserably hot, but that the wind is non existent for the most part while its hot. 

As just about all of us here, this is where we shop. Ryan is whom you deal with, best prices to your door.
https://www.scaledinstruments.com/

With the expensive shipping scaled comes out to about $30 more than scientific.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: CW2274 on March 20, 2018, 01:11:03 AM
I'm in Tucson. Not getting the VP2 with at least DFARS would be a huge mistake IMHO unless the wind literally blows all day long there all year long. FARS is not necessarily for hot climates, it's to overcome lack of sufficient wind to properly vent the sensor chamber be it 115F or 35F. Common misconception that FARS is only for hot climates, it just helps more so if you live in one.
I guess I should have made myself a little more clear on that
No, that was my obvious failed attempt at sarcasm. Just about everyone at some time or another can benefit from a FARS.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: CW2274 on March 20, 2018, 01:37:56 AM
I'm in Tucson. Not getting the VP2 with at least DFARS would be a huge mistake IMHO unless the wind literally blows all day long there all year long. FARS is not necessarily for hot climates, it's to overcome lack of sufficient wind to properly vent the sensor chamber be it 115F or 35F. Common misconception that FARS is only for hot climates, it just helps more so if you live in one.
As just about all of us here, this is where we shop. Ryan is whom you deal with, best prices to your door.
https://www.scaledinstruments.com/
With the expensive shipping scaled comes out to about $30 more than scientific.
Was that Scaled's discount price list?
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 20, 2018, 01:49:40 AM
No, that was my obvious failed attempt at sarcasm. Just about everyone at some time or another can benefit from a FARS.

Being as sarcastic as I am on the daily, I really should have caught that! :lol:

I agree with that statement though, Would you say its worth the roughly $40 savings for the Daytime FARS vs 24 Hour? I wouldn't imagine so but its always worth asking.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: CW2274 on March 20, 2018, 02:10:38 AM
No, that was my obvious failed attempt at sarcasm. Just about everyone at some time or another can benefit from a FARS.
I agree with that statement though, Would you say its worth the roughly $40 savings for the Daytime FARS vs 24 Hour? I wouldn't imagine so but its always worth asking.
My fan runs 24/7, but it's a computer case fan that runs off the house power as I grew tired of replacing the failed Davis fans (no idea if they're better now), plus, the much greater flow gives me the "peace of mind" knowing true ambient air is always in the chamber, even at 115F+. If you want to save the extra bucks, get the daytime only and convert to a case fan down the road should you choose, and if obviously able.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 20, 2018, 02:16:47 AM
]My fan runs 24/7, but it's a computer case fan that runs off the house power as I grew tired of replacing the failed Davis fans (no idea if they're better now), plus, the much greater flow gives me the "peace of mind" knowing true ambient air is always in the chamber, even at 115F+. If you want to save the extra bucks, get the daytime only and convert to a case fan down the road should you choose, and if obviously able.

That's actually a really good idea, for the little savings it would be I'll probably go with the 24 Hour and convert it to a case fan if I become unhappy with it.

Seeing as you're familiar with my heat issue instead of the normal snow issue, I feel like your response leaves me no choice but to purchase a VP2 instead of a Vue.

Now I just have to see if Scaled will match Scientific's prices and get this thing ordered tomorrow!

...why do hobbies have to be so expensive  ](*,)
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: CW2274 on March 20, 2018, 02:34:58 AM
]My fan runs 24/7, but it's a computer case fan that runs off the house power as I grew tired of replacing the failed Davis fans (no idea if they're better now), plus, the much greater flow gives me the "peace of mind" knowing true ambient air is always in the chamber, even at 115F+. If you want to save the extra bucks, get the daytime only and convert to a case fan down the road should you choose, and if obviously able.
...why do hobbies have to be so expensive  ](*,)
Excellent choice! GL on the search.
As far as a hobbie, I'm sure I'll get a lot of :roll:, but it's more than a just hobbie to me....just sayin'...
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 20, 2018, 03:01:42 AM

As far as a hobbie, I'm sure I'll get a lot of :roll:, but it's more than a just hobbie to me....just sayin'...

I'm sure it'll end up being that way for me too  :lol:
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: SlowModem on March 20, 2018, 05:48:23 AM
I know I'm late to the party, but I feel I'd be remiss if I didn't ask if you've checked on/decided on a datalogger?

]My fan runs 24/7, but it's a computer case fan that runs off the house power as I grew tired of replacing the failed Davis fans (no idea if they're better now), plus, the much greater flow gives me the "peace of mind" knowing true ambient air is always in the chamber, even at 115F+. If you want to save the extra bucks, get the daytime only and convert to a case fan down the road should you choose, and if obviously able.

That's actually a really good idea, for the little savings it would be I'll probably go with the 24 Hour and convert it to a case fan if I become unhappy with it.

Seeing as you're familiar with my heat issue instead of the normal snow issue, I feel like your response leaves me no choice but to purchase a VP2 instead of a Vue.

Now I just have to see if Scaled will match Scientific's prices and get this thing ordered tomorrow!

...why do hobbies have to be so expensive  ](*,)
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: tshattuck on March 20, 2018, 07:32:06 AM
Parke10
I just got done reading all the posts to your question and found the responses interesting.

One thing that caught my attention is you mentioned mounting the weather station on your roof. I am hoping you only meant the Anemometer. You definitely do not want your rain gauge and temperature sensors up on your roof.
You don't want the those sensors on the roof due to skewed readings and maintenance issues. (Like a bird leaving a calling card in your rain gauge bucket). Keep in mind if you are planning on getting a wireless VP2 you have to replace the battery every couple of years.

I purchased my VP2+ from ambient weather, I don't know if they have the best prices but they are cheaper than Davis.

I have attached a link to the CWOP weather station siting recommendations web page for your info:

Good luck
 
http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/CWOP_Guide.pdf (http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/CWOP_Guide.pdf)
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 20, 2018, 08:18:54 AM
Parke10
I just got done reading all the posts to your question and found the responses interesting.

One thing that caught my attention is you mentioned mounting the weather station on your roof. I am hoping you only meant the Anemometer. You definitely do not want your rain gauge and temperature sensors up on your roof.
You don't want the those sensors on the roof due to skewed readings and maintenance issues. (Like a bird leaving a calling card in your rain gauge bucket). Keep in mind if you are planning on getting a wireless VP2 you have to replace the battery every couple of years.

I purchased my VP2+ from ambient weather, I don't know if they have the best prices but they are cheaper than Davis.

I have attached a link to the CWOP weather station siting recommendations web page for your info:

Good luck
 
http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/CWOP_Guide.pdf (http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/CWOP_Guide.pdf)

Good points.. Why I wouldn't be interested in any all-in-one weather station especially with a spoon tipping bucket mounted in high location, wind would play a major roll and the inability to properly level gauge along with the inherent lack of accuracy with the spoon tipping bucket.

This video from Dyacom talks about different rain gauges they tested and some of the issues. At 3:15 mark they talk about the spoon tipping bucket shortcomings. 
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 20, 2018, 12:32:02 PM
I know I'm late to the party, but I feel I'd be remiss if I didn't ask if you've checked on/decided on a datalogger?

I actually haven't yet, I'm still considering all options as far as that goes, Mainly leaning towards a WeatherLink IP, but I still really like the idea of building an Intel NUC (mini desktop computer) to mange everything weather related and use the USB, Power consumption isn't a huge concern as I have solar and the NUC runs off a laptop transformer/adapter. But the data logger is actually is a harder choice for me to make than the station itself  ](*,)

Parke10
I just got done reading all the posts to your question and found the responses interesting.

One thing that caught my attention is you mentioned mounting the weather station on your roof. I am hoping you only meant the Anemometer. You definitely do not want your rain gauge and temperature sensors up on your roof.
You don't want the those sensors on the roof due to skewed readings and maintenance issues. (Like a bird leaving a calling card in your rain gauge bucket). Keep in mind if you are planning on getting a wireless VP2 you have to replace the battery every couple of years.

I purchased my VP2+ from ambient weather, I don't know if they have the best prices but they are cheaper than Davis.

I have attached a link to the CWOP weather station siting recommendations web page for your info:

Good luck
 
http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/CWOP_Guide.pdf (http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/CWOP_Guide.pdf)

Through my research I've seen that information stated and have come to see why its not a good mounting option, my only problem is I really don't see any other place to mount it with how my property is setup, I'm going to keep looking at it and considering all options but I'm not sure what I'll be able to do.


Good points.. Why I wouldn't be interested in any all-in-one weather station especially with a spoon tipping bucket mounted in high location, wind would play a major roll and the inability to properly level gauge along with the inherent lack of accuracy with the spoon tipping bucket.

This video from Dyacom talks about different rain gauges they tested and some of the issues. At 3:15 mark they talk about the spoon tipping bucket shortcomings. 

I'll give that video a watch, I feel like the VP2 will still be my best option for what I'm trying to do and the amount of land I have to work with, If I end up being stuck with mounting it higher I'll make sure to fab up some solid steel mount of some sort so that wind sway is little to no issue.



Tshattuck-

Here is a picture of what I have to work with, Property 1 is my house and 2 is my only other option being as its my rental house, even though the tenants are great people I don't think they'd appreciate a weather station in the middle of the backyard of a house they're renting   :lol:

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: tshattuck on March 20, 2018, 01:07:43 PM
Parke10
You definitely have a small yard!  :shock:

It would be in your best interest to keep the rain gauge and temperature units (ISS) in your yard if possible. I am speaking from experience here I don't know how many times a bird has left a calling card in my rain gauge which plugs it up. The bird droppings also eat into the plastic if left for several days. I am on my second rain bucket.  :-(

I've had my VP2+ now for 11 years. Mine is mounted on a 8' 4"x4" with the ISS @ 5' elevation. My Anemometer is at 14' elevation it is mounted to galvanized steel pole which is mounted to the 4x4.

Regards,
   
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 20, 2018, 03:12:17 PM
Parke10
You definitely have a small yard!  :shock:

It would be in your best interest to keep the rain gauge and temperature units (ISS) in your yard if possible. I am speaking from experience here I don't know how many times a bird has left a calling card in my rain gauge which plugs it up. The bird droppings also eat into the plastic if left for several days. I am on my second rain bucket.  :-(

I've had my VP2+ now for 11 years. Mine is mounted on a 8' 4"x4" with the ISS @ 5' elevation. My Anemometer is at 14' elevation it is mounted to galvanized steel pole which is mounted to the 4x4.

Regards,
 

I may have to, but I'd really like to avoid having it in the backyard grass area due to it being so small as it is, my gardener having to mow around it, and my horse size dogs making a chew toy out of it.

Plus as you can see in that picture there's a large tree in the South East corner, plus the house to the north, garage to the west, and 6ft fence around the entire property worries me that they may reduce the amount of rain actually recorded.

It may end up being a trial and error process to start with since I have a terrible area for a personal weather station.
 ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 21, 2018, 06:25:19 PM
Well the VP2 has been ordered from Ryan at Scaled. Let another overly expensive hobby begin.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: CW2274 on March 21, 2018, 06:38:08 PM
Well the VP2 has been ordered from Ryan at Scaled. Let another overly expensive hobby begin.
Congrats! Daytime or 24hr?
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 21, 2018, 06:41:27 PM
Well the VP2 has been ordered from Ryan at Scaled. Let another overly expensive hobby begin.
Congrats! Daytime or 24hr?

24Hr, didn't feel like the little bit of money savings at this point would be worth it
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: CW2274 on March 21, 2018, 06:48:31 PM
Well the VP2 has been ordered from Ryan at Scaled. Let another overly expensive hobby begin.
Congrats! Daytime or 24hr?

24Hr, didn't feel like the little bit of money savings at this point would be worth it
In case you're unaware, you'll have three choices on aspiration rates, 1) leave both batteries out for maximum daytime aspiration and zero at night (this is what I used until I went a/c), 2) one battery in, one out, this is for lesser daytime aspiration and some at night, 3) both batteries in for maximum night time aspiration and the least in the day (personally, I wouldn't go this route).
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 21, 2018, 08:35:24 PM
In case you're unaware, you'll have three choices on aspiration rates, 1) leave both batteries out for maximum daytime aspiration and zero at night (this is what I used until I went a/c), 2) one battery in, one out, this is for lesser daytime aspiration and some at night, 3) both batteries in for maximum night time aspiration and the least in the day (personally, I wouldn't go this route).

Why wouldn't you go with option 3?
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: CW2274 on March 21, 2018, 08:46:19 PM
In case you're unaware, you'll have three choices on aspiration rates, 1) leave both batteries out for maximum daytime aspiration and zero at night (this is what I used until I went a/c), 2) one battery in, one out, this is for lesser daytime aspiration and some at night, 3) both batteries in for maximum night time aspiration and the least in the day (personally, I wouldn't go this route).

Why wouldn't you go with option 3?
Being that you're in an equally hot climate as myself with wicked solar insolation, I'd want the fan sucking air through that sensor chamber as fast as the ISS will allow with the stock fan. With keeping that chamber as close to ambient as possible, the more accurate it'll be. Of course some say "really, what's a degree", I'll take better accuracy over lesser every single day.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 22, 2018, 01:10:44 AM
Being that you're in an equally hot climate as myself with wicked solar insolation, I'd want the fan sucking air through that sensor chamber as fast as the ISS will allow with the stock fan. With keeping that chamber as close to ambient as possible, the more accurate it'll be. Of course some say "really, what's a degree", I'll take better accuracy over lesser every single day.

That makes sense.
Now that you've explained I guess my assumptions made me read what you originally wrote wrong. I was assuming that both batteries would make the fan run at maximum speed day and night.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: CW2274 on March 22, 2018, 02:08:06 AM
Being that you're in an equally hot climate as myself with wicked solar insolation, I'd want the fan sucking air through that sensor chamber as fast as the ISS will allow with the stock fan. With keeping that chamber as close to ambient as possible, the more accurate it'll be. Of course some say "really, what's a degree", I'll take better accuracy over lesser every single day.

That makes sense.
Now that you've explained I guess my assumptions made me read what you originally wrote wrong. I was assuming that both batteries would make the fan run at maximum speed day and night.
No sir. What happens is that the large solar panel angled out on the bottom not only powers the fan in the day, it also recharges one or both batteries that were used the previous night, at the same time. So, if one or both are in, the current from the panel is not just powering the fan in the day, it's using current to charge the batteries too, taking power from the fan.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 23, 2018, 02:08:53 AM
No sir. What happens is that the large solar panel angled out on the bottom not only powers the fan in the day, it also recharges one or both batteries that were used the previous night, at the same time. So, if one or both are in, the current from the panel is not just powering the fan in the day, it's using current to charge the batteries too, taking power from the fan.


Well that makes perfect sense now that I Actually think about it.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Mattk on March 23, 2018, 03:20:10 AM
Well the VP2 has been ordered from Ryan at Scaled. Let another overly expensive hobby begin.

As far as the VP2 goes it really doesn't fall into the overly expensive category as if you really want to go into all that stuff re aspirated this and heated that and not on the roof but this has to be on the ground and .... then that stuff is out there and then you may call it expensive and that's even before you get beyond the hobby stage 
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Intheswamp on March 23, 2018, 06:04:04 PM
I may have to, but I'd really like to avoid having it in the backyard grass area due to it being so small as it is, my gardener having to mow around it, and my horse size dogs making a chew toy out of it.
Wait a minute, you have a "so small" yard, a gardener, and "horse size dogs"?  What is the gardener for...filling in holes?   :-D
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 23, 2018, 08:41:55 PM
Well the VP2 has been ordered from Ryan at Scaled. Let another overly expensive hobby begin.

As far as the VP2 goes it really doesn't fall into the overly expensive category as if you really want to go into all that stuff re aspirated this and heated that and not on the roof but this has to be on the ground and .... then that stuff is out there and then you may call it expensive and that's even before you get beyond the hobby stage 

Never said the VP2 was expensive, said the hobby is going to be. Since ill probably end up buying more and more weather related stuff. Although the VP2 is "expensive" if you compare it to you typical "home" station.

I may have to, but I'd really like to avoid having it in the backyard grass area due to it being so small as it is, my gardener having to mow around it, and my horse size dogs making a chew toy out of it.
Wait a minute, you have a "so small" yard, a gardener, and "horse size dogs"?  What is the gardener for...filling in holes?   :-D

Mostly for the front yard haha, and yes he actually does fill in the holes from time to time :grin:
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Bushman on March 24, 2018, 04:19:52 AM
Expensive hobby? Hardly.  One and done, for the most part.  If you want expensive, try radio control planes or boats.  :)
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 24, 2018, 04:55:33 AM
Expensive hobby? Hardly.  One and done, for the most part.  If you want expensive, try radio control planes or boats.  :)

Radio controlled planes and boats? Try circle track and drag racing lol
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: vreihen on March 24, 2018, 09:02:28 AM
Radio controlled planes and boats? Try circle track and drag racing lol

<=== You can say that again!  :lol:

Wanna know how to make a small fortune in racing?  Start out with a large fortune.....
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 25, 2018, 02:23:32 AM


<=== You can say that again!  :lol:

Wanna know how to make a small fortune in racing?  Start out with a large fortune.....
Yup!hahaha
Looks like an Audi TT on a road course?

Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Intheswamp on March 25, 2018, 08:03:19 AM
<snip>
It would be in your best interest to keep the rain gauge and temperature units (ISS) in your yard if possible. I am speaking from experience here I don't know how many times a bird has left a calling card in my rain gauge which plugs it up. The bird droppings also eat into the plastic if left for several days. I am on my second rain bucket.  :-(<snip>

One thing about the current production of the VP2s is the newer rain bucket.  I've had the hour-glass shaped one with the bird spikes up for a few months now and haven't had the first problem with it being clogged with bird gifts.  I've been *very* pleased with that design.  So, other than not being optimal for rain collection a higher installation of the ISS may not cause much of a problem with the rain gauge clogging.  Temperature and humidity measurements, along with rain measurements may be affected though.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Bushman on March 25, 2018, 08:41:05 AM
How does one heat that new bucket design?
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: vreihen on March 25, 2018, 09:02:17 AM
How does one heat that new bucket design?

Put the old bucket back on.  Seriously, that's Davis' answer for heating the new aero-cone setup.....
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: zackdog on March 25, 2018, 09:24:54 AM
Based on my experience, I would not bother with a heater.  Just my .02.

Since October 1, 2017 with Heater on 24/7.   Davis rain collector 3.43"  CoCoRaHS  7.57"   Granted, siting is different for the two, but not that bad.

Mark
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Bushman on March 25, 2018, 09:47:29 AM
Heater  for  SWE.  A plastic gauge would likely overflow with some of the stores we get here.  Plus it requires manual reading.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Bushman on March 25, 2018, 09:48:17 AM
How does one heat that new bucket design?

Put the old bucket back on.  Seriously, that's Davis' answer for heating the new aero-cone setup.....

Oh yeah - the old "That's not a bug - it is an undocumented feature".  More proof that Davis has lost touch.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 25, 2018, 10:56:03 AM
Based on my experience, I would not bother with a heater.  Just my .02.

Since October 1, 2017 with Heater on 24/7.   Davis rain collector 3.43"  CoCoRaHS  7.57"   Granted, siting is different for the two, but not that bad.

Mark

I've been down on heaters also... Not just the Davis bucket but Texas Electronics too.  But I've had 2 recent snows where temperatures were just below freezing 28-31į range and the tipping bucket actually matched the manual Cocorahs.
Where they won't match are cold dry storms where lots of evaporation occurs prior to filling tipper. Unfortunately most of our snows upper plains are of that variety where snowfall occurs between -10 and 15įF. The warmer snows recently came in March and have been rare since moving here 4 winters ago... So for some I can see where the heated tipping bucket could work.
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Mattk on March 25, 2018, 04:40:52 PM
So what does one call a weather station imbedded in a block of ice?
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Intheswamp on March 27, 2018, 09:36:17 AM
How does one heat that new bucket design?

Put the old bucket back on.  Seriously, that's Davis' answer for heating the new aero-cone setup.....

Oh yeah - the old "That's not a bug - it is an undocumented feature".  More proof that Davis has lost touch.
Well, maybe the new bucket design is a "southern, warm-climate model".  :lol:

But, seriously, I use to have bird poop regularly (where'd they find all those seedy berries?) clog the drain on the bucket.  Since installing the new model bucket I've literally had zero instances of debris/poop in the bucket.  Even leaves have stayed out but I never had much of a problem with them.  Matter of fact, I don't think I've removed the bucket since I installed it last year.  If you don't need the heater (for example, live in a warmer climate) then the new design is great!!!  If you need the heater, well, maybe not?

Ed
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: waiukuweather on March 27, 2018, 02:59:52 PM
do people in areas that get snow, are they still able to order a Davis unit with the original rain gauge style?
(i.e so a heater can be added)
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: johnd on March 27, 2018, 03:57:11 PM
do people in areas that get snow, are they still able to order a Davis unit with the original rain gauge style?
(i.e so a heater can be added)

Well, yes and no. The previous 7720 heater is now replaced by a 7721 part, which is 7720 + the old-style rain cone. Guess it's a bit like having separate sets of summer and winter tyres for a car (sorry, tires for an auto).
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: johnd on March 27, 2018, 03:57:38 PM
do people in areas that get snow, are they still able to order a Davis unit with the original rain gauge style?
(i.e so a heater can be added)

Well, yes and no. The previous 7720 heater is now replaced by a 7721 part, which is 7720 + the old-style rain cone! Guess it's a bit like having separate sets of summer and winter tyres for a car (sorry, tires for an auto).
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: johnd on March 27, 2018, 03:58:03 PM
do people in areas that get snow, are they still able to order a Davis unit with the original rain gauge style?
(i.e so a heater can be added)

Well, yes and no. The previous 7720 heater is now replaced by a 7721 part, which is 7720 + the old-style rain cone! Guess it's a bit like having separate sets of summer and winter tyres for a car (sorry, tires for an auto).
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Intheswamp on March 28, 2018, 01:07:35 AM
Man, I'm gettin' a deja vu feelin'.  :lol:
Title: Re: The Davis dead horse
Post by: Parke10 on March 28, 2018, 12:16:51 PM
Man, I'm gettin' a deja vu feelin'.  :lol:

Man I could have sworn the shrooms would have worn off by now but I'm getting the same feeling! :lol: