Author Topic: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?  (Read 166908 times)

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Offline SlowModem

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #300 on: September 23, 2014, 05:04:25 PM »
My suggestion would be that Davis figure out how to make the supercap "inexpensively and easily replaceable".

That would mean no soldering.
Greg Whitehead
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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #301 on: September 23, 2014, 05:26:50 PM »
My suggestion would be that Davis figure out how to make the supercap "inexpensively and easily replaceable".

That would mean no soldering.

Yes.  For instance, a supercap (encapsulated) with a telephone-style connector plug.

Of course, as johnd points out, the connector would be a potential source of unreliability.  But on the Vue, the battery connector is already a potential source of unreliability.

Analysis might indicate that two potential sources of unreliability are better than one?


Offline SlowModem

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #302 on: September 23, 2014, 09:12:23 PM »
Analysis might indicate that two potential sources of unreliability are better than one?

Don't two negatives make a positive?   :roll:
Greg Whitehead
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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #303 on: September 23, 2014, 10:17:45 PM »
Analysis might indicate that two potential sources of unreliability are better than one?

Don't two negatives make a positive?   :roll:

Exactly. 

If you're jumping from an airplane, would you rather have just your main parachute?  Or also a reserve parachute?

Offline jlberry

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #304 on: September 24, 2014, 02:34:44 PM »
Same issue here. After reading Aardvark's advice, I replaced the battery and cycled through the setup menu and the message cleared. Hopefully, problem is solved for my Vantage Vue.

Quoting Aardvark:

one thought...
 if the Vantage Vue console is like the VP2 or Vp1 console, after you replace the battery on one of those low station messages, the message stays until after midnight (not sure why or the logic on this).   I had that happen several times and got frustrated hiking out  in the snow and cold, depleting my cr123 battery supply and cussing a lot directed toward the battery people.

So I then called Davis Tech support and they told me that either wait until the next day or go into setup on the console and cycle through the settings and then the message would reset.

Offline srhodes

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #305 on: September 28, 2014, 12:29:42 AM »
I disagree. They want $ 80 plus shipping both ways and possible taxes for the transmitter board.  Which is going to be at least $90 versus using a rechargeable battery instead of a non rechargeable battery- difference in cost of $ 1- 2. The solar panel runs the ISS during almost every day except when it is extremely overcast then the Super cap or battery kicks in. My super cap died 1 1/2 years ago (only lasted 2 1/2 years)and i have been running on rechargeable battery at night and low light days ever since. I paid less than $10 to Amazon for the two pack of Ultra 800 mah rechargeable batteries. The charger cost $ 16 which I use for other batteries as well. The batteries are rated for 500 recharge cycles. They lasted 8 months in ISS per charge. So these batteries will last much longer than this ISS will be around. $26 has always been less than $ 90. And that appears to be $ 90 every two to three years.Yes, you do have to go out and change the batteries, but I service the ISS twice a year anyways so no big deal.  I do love my Vantage Vue and went on line with the data logger earlier this year. i just think the super cap is not the best way to go.

Let me see if I understand.  You are saying that Davis should do away with the 3-power-source approach, and supply two rechargeable batteries and a charger, and tell all customers to exchange the outside battery with a recharged one twice a year?

I guess you don't understand. I never said to do away with anything. I offered any alternative to spending $ 90 to replace the super cap (which is soldered on the transmitter board). I see no reason to spend $ 90 on an almost 5 year old ISS (how long will it last) when it will run on an inexpensive battery. A battery you already have to have in the machine anyways. If they can charge a super cap (which is an energy storage device similar to a battery) for night time/ back up use then why not make the system where it will charge a much cheaper lithium battery or multiple batteries. Maybe they should hire the Chinese dudes that make the little 3 pack of solar powered butterflies lights for $ 20 that last for two years without doing anything to them.

Offline srhodes

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #306 on: September 28, 2014, 12:40:05 AM »
If you don't have easy access to your station, that rules out the option of swapping out rechargable batteries on a regular basis.

When my supercap fails, I will upgrade to a vantage pro II, and STill have the wonderful Vue refurbished and give it to someone worthy.

I think you have determined the best way out of this situation. I like the features of the PRO2 better than VV wished i had spent more $$ originally.  I would rather have placed my ISS on my roof as well so I could avoid wind disturbances but I opted for an easier to access and maintain location.

Offline srhodes

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #307 on: September 28, 2014, 12:51:25 AM »
Just as an example.....a VP2 solar panel puts out on a REAL good day ~2.3v....I don't know what a Vue solar panel puts out, but I'll bet that it is about the same, so you're not gonna recharge any battery(s) on that output. A while back in this thread, I posted how Davis recommended updating the Vue console firmware that was supposed to cure this issue......how many of you have done that? How many have followed the exact directions Davis gives for when you change the battery in the ISS? Probably not many..............

I read your post on the firmware, thanks. I did upgrade mine when I installed the data logger. The VV solar cell puts out enough energy to run the unit during the day as well as charge a super cap /battery for night time use. Per Davis tech Jerry Loyd.

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #308 on: September 28, 2014, 10:45:43 AM »
I guess you don't understand.

1.  The supercap costs much less than either type of battery.  [$90 is for the entire "guts"]

2.  The current solar panel is not capable of recharging both the supercap and a battery.

Offline srhodes

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #309 on: September 28, 2014, 11:11:17 AM »
I guess you don't understand.

1.  The supercap costs much less than either type of battery.  [$90 is for the entire "guts"]

2.  The current solar panel is not capable of recharging both the supercap and a battery.

I guess that you read just what you want and twist it to fit your argument and arguing being what you are about.  A super cap by itself is depending on which of the three types of SC's they used is most likely $ 2-4 and not only would it be cheaper than the battery A super cap is a more efficient charging and storage system than a battery. Since it appears that Davis has chosen a lesser quality SC that's life expectancy is less than the device it was installed in and the fact that it was soldered on to a circuit board and for most people not replaceable any other way than the $ 90 transmitter board exchange. So for this specific situation it would be cheaper for most people to go with a battery option. It was an observation that fit my circumstances and this is why I shared it. If it doesn't fit yours then ignore it. I never SAID nor implied that the current solar array was capable of charging a SC and a battery.  I suggested that Davis make it that way so it would would be even better situation.

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #310 on: September 28, 2014, 01:42:43 PM »
I understand that it fit your situation, and I'm glad you shared it. 

It will be helpful to some people.

If Davis reconsiders their design, there are several solutions that would be better in some ways.

Offline srhodes

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #311 on: September 28, 2014, 06:58:37 PM »
I understand that it fit your situation, and I'm glad you shared it. 

It will be helpful to some people.

If Davis reconsiders their design, there are several solutions that would be better in some ways.
I Totally agree. Manufacturers think in terms of saving fractions of pennies and bottom line profit...and i get that. I am in business for myself, but i would not screw my customers over for a few dollars more in cost. I prefer to pay more for a more reliable product and eliminate hassles.

Offline morfeas2002

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #312 on: October 02, 2014, 05:54:23 AM »
Hello there. My friend has problems with his vue after 2 years of good work.
2 weeks ago he got the message "low battery". He changed the battery but message did not leave. After 2 days he had dashes in console but it was a cloudy day. He opened the battery hole, blew it with hair dryer and dashes left. So was the message. Today message came back, and dashes too. But it is a sunny day and it is almost mid day. ISS should work with solar panel but it does not.
Is supercup the problem or is it something else?
And if it is, is this the repair part or i am wrong?
https://www.scaledinstruments.com/?product=davis-7345-293-vue-pcba-for-battery-and-rain-reed-switch

Offline mike67ld

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #313 on: October 06, 2014, 04:48:23 AM »
In reply to my own post on Dec 28 2013, I have now been on the roof and measured the battery voltage in situ - 3.15 volts.  It's been up there for over a year now happily transmitting data (and also the low battery warning) so I'm going to ignore it until it stops. 
I hope this helps put a few of your minds at ease, not having to keep changing the thing just because the trigger point for sending the message has been set too high - in my opinion anyway!
Cheers
Mike
OK, it's stopped now.  The battery measured 1.75v so that seems fair enough.  New battery is 3.25v and I don't have the dreaded message - yet!  I've made a note of the date of this battery change so we'll see how long this one lasts, again ignoring the message until the battery dies.

Miike

Offline mike67ld

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #314 on: October 06, 2014, 05:14:06 AM »
Hello there. My friend has problems with his vue after 2 years of good work.
2 weeks ago he got the message "low battery". He changed the battery but message did not leave. After 2 days he had dashes in console but it was a cloudy day. He opened the battery hole, blew it with hair dryer and dashes left. So was the message. Today message came back, and dashes too. But it is a sunny day and it is almost mid day. ISS should work with solar panel but it does not.
Is supercup the problem or is it something else?
And if it is, is this the repair part or i am wrong?
https://www.scaledinstruments.com/?product=davis-7345-293-vue-pcba-for-battery-and-rain-reed-switch
Hi morfeas2002

From what I've read in this thread, it seems that during the day, the solar panel charges the supercap for use during night-time and the battery is there for backup.  My diagnosis is that the solar panel is not charging the supercap for one reason or another (faulty/wire off) and the ISS is running on the battery all the time, sun or no sun, and has run down.  When there is no power from anything, the ISS stops transmitting and dashes appear on the Vue.    When the battery was removed to blow out the compartment with a hair dryer, the action of sliding the battery over its contact points will have scrubbed and slightly lowered the contact resistance and also will have given the battery a few moments rest, so giving a slight (temporary) uplift in volts to set the ISS working again.  Shortly afterwards, as your friend has noticed, it stops transmitting again as the voltage drops below the minimum.  That's my theory anyway.

You could try putting a brand new battery in as an experiment and see how long that lasts.  It does seem to point to the solar panel not working though so I don't think replacing just the battery board and rain reed switch unit will cure it. 

Hope that helps.

Mike

Offline GramaCindy

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #315 on: October 06, 2014, 06:21:04 AM »
Hello everyone, I too have had issues with my VV ISS. Low battery, dashes, replaced battery, lasted two days. Now unit will not even sense new battery installed. I get NOTHING ](*,). I think from what I have been reading is that I may need some of that battery gel and maybe a super cell too. I will call Davis today to see what they can do for me. It is aprox 14 months old. ARG.

Offline srhodes

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #316 on: October 06, 2014, 10:54:26 AM »
Hello there. My friend has problems with his vue after 2 years of good work.
2 weeks ago he got the message "low battery". He changed the battery but message did not leave. After 2 days he had dashes in console but it was a cloudy day. He opened the battery hole, blew it with hair dryer and dashes left. So was the message. Today message came back, and dashes too. But it is a sunny day and it is almost mid day. ISS should work with solar panel but it does not.
Is supercup the problem or is it something else?
And if it is, is this the repair part or i am wrong?
https://www.scaledinstruments.com/?product=davis-7345-293-vue-pcba-for-battery-and-rain-reed-switch
Hi morfeas2002

From what I've read in this thread, it seems that during the day, the solar panel charges the supercap for use during night-time and the battery is there for backup.  My diagnosis is that the solar panel is not charging the supercap for one reason or another (faulty/wire off) and the ISS is running on the battery all the time, sun or no sun, and has run down.  When there is no power from anything, the ISS stops transmitting and dashes appear on the Vue.    When the battery was removed to blow out the compartment with a hair dryer, the action of sliding the battery over its contact points will have scrubbed and slightly lowered the contact resistance and also will have given the battery a few moments rest, so giving a slight (temporary) uplift in volts to set the ISS working again.  Shortly afterwards, as your friend has noticed, it stops transmitting again as the voltage drops below the minimum.  That's my theory anyway.

You could try putting a brand new battery in as an experiment and see how long that lasts.  It does seem to point to the solar panel not working though so I don't think replacing just the battery board and rain reed switch unit will cure it. 

Hope that helps.

Mike
Hello there. My friend has problems with his vue after 2 years of good work.
2 weeks ago he got the message "low battery". He changed the battery but message did not leave. After 2 days he had dashes in console but it was a cloudy day. He opened the battery hole, blew it with hair dryer and dashes left. So was the message. Today message came back, and dashes too. But it is a sunny day and it is almost mid day. ISS should work with solar panel but it does not.
Is supercup the problem or is it something else?
And if it is, is this the repair part or i am wrong?
https://www.scaledinstruments.com/?product=davis-7345-293-vue-pcba-for-battery-and-rain-reed-switch
Hi morfeas2002

From what I've read in this thread, it seems that during the day, the solar panel charges the supercap for use during night-time and the battery is there for backup.  My diagnosis is that the solar panel is not charging the supercap for one reason or another (faulty/wire off) and the ISS is running on the battery all the time, sun or no sun, and has run down.  When there is no power from anything, the ISS stops transmitting and dashes appear on the Vue.    When the battery was removed to blow out the compartment with a hair dryer, the action of sliding the battery over its contact points will have scrubbed and slightly lowered the contact resistance and also will have given the battery a few moments rest, so giving a slight (temporary) uplift in volts to set the ISS working again.  Shortly afterwards, as your friend has noticed, it stops transmitting again as the voltage drops below the minimum.  That's my theory anyway.

You could try putting a brand new battery in as an experiment and see how long that lasts.  It does seem to point to the solar panel not working though so I don't think replacing just the battery board and rain reed switch unit will cure it. 

Hope that helps.

Mike


Hi morfeas2002

Mike is right on. I do suggest contacting Davis by phone and giving them your particulars. The numbers on the back of your console will be needed. Plan on waiting on hold for awhile. It took almost 9 days an email response. There are several issues with this powering system and i would talk to them first. Most of the posts on this thread worked okay during the day (mine as well). As yours has problems on a sunny day I would agree with Mike that the solar panel is not working properly. Most solar panels work on cloudy days unless it becomes almost night time dark outside. Good luck.

Offline morfeas2002

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #317 on: October 07, 2014, 03:14:59 AM »
Thanks. We will search it more. For about 6 it works normally without any stops. And the last 3 days were cloudy, with rain.
http://pylos.meteoclub.gr/

Offline Durman

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #318 on: November 18, 2014, 04:24:34 AM »
I'm new to this forum but I've had a solution to the "low battery" problem for a while now...and it works very well for me. Like most people with this issue, I also went through the quick fixes of firmware update, dielectric grease and serial battery replacements...at best with very transient success.
I accepted that a dead supercap was the problem, but unlike those with access to the failed component (Pro2), those of us with Vantage Vue consoles have the main board encased in resin.
So the only solution was an external power supply. I set this up with a 5W solar panel feeding into a regulator that charges a 1.2Ah 12V battery (its very small). The battery output is fed into a dc-dc converter which reduces the output to 3V, which I feed directly to the battery terminals of the vantage vue.
All the components are housed in a 4x4" weatherproof box mounted on the same pole as the ISS (with the wiring
running through drilled holes directly into the pipe)
Costs: solar panel $9, regulator $7, DC-DC converter (buck converter) $2...all from ebay and for about $20 I have a much more robust, durable and modular solution.
Basically, the system has enough capacity to power the ISS for exponentially longer than the supercap ever could.
Its all mounted neatly and looks pretty high-tech (IMHO!) and has been working well for about 6 months now.

Hope it helps a few of you with the same issue.

Offline Durman

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #319 on: November 18, 2014, 10:12:48 AM »
Heres a pic of the "new & improved" Vantage Vue setup.


Offline ed2kayak

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #320 on: November 18, 2014, 11:04:32 AM »
Looks nice, thanks for sharing
Ed
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Offline pfletch101

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #321 on: November 18, 2014, 11:23:25 AM »
It makes one wonder (as others have!) why Davis didn't adopt a similar approach. It will be interesting to see how well your power supply stands up to months or (hopefully) years of exposure to inclement weather - especially the temperature extremes, from which you can't effectively protect it.
Vantage Pro 2+ connected to Raspberry Pi running weewx by means of Meteo-Pi - data incorporated in domestic energy production (PV) and use monitoring system.

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #322 on: November 18, 2014, 12:16:50 PM »
It makes one wonder (as others have!) why Davis didn't adopt a similar approach.

Durman's add-on external supply is an excellent workaround for supercap failure in the Vue.

However, (if I understand the description), it just replaces the 3-volt non-rechargeable battery with a 12-volt rechargeable battery (and converter).   And accompanying additional solar panel.

That's still just two power sources. 

Offline pfletch101

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #323 on: November 18, 2014, 01:36:09 PM »
It makes one wonder (as others have!) why Davis didn't adopt a similar approach.

Durman's add-on external supply is an excellent workaround for supercap failure in the Vue.

However, (if I understand the description), it just replaces the 3-volt non-rechargeable battery with a 12-volt rechargeable battery (and converter).   And accompanying additional solar panel.

That's still just two power sources.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that attaching an external power supply, which is essentially what he is doing (from the point of view of the Vue), leaves the internal 3V battery available to take over if the 'external' supply fails and the Vue's PV system is not supplying power. I make that three power sources, with the rechargeable battery that replaces the cap being much easier to replace if/when it fails.
Vantage Pro 2+ connected to Raspberry Pi running weewx by means of Meteo-Pi - data incorporated in domestic energy production (PV) and use monitoring system.

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Battery failures on Vantage Vue?
« Reply #324 on: November 18, 2014, 02:55:05 PM »
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that attaching an external power supply, which is essentially what he is doing (from the point of view of the Vue), leaves the internal 3V battery available to take over if the 'external' supply fails ...

Here's what Durman said:

...... 3V, which I feed directly to the battery terminals of the vantage vue.

I assume that Durman means that the battery is not present in the battery holder.  And that the external supply is attached to the terminals that previously held the battery.  [Clarification awaited]

Attaching an external supply directly across a non-rechargeable battery (without some sort of isolation or protection) is a "do not do that".  From Durman's obvious demonstrated knowledge, I'm rather sure that isn't news.