Author Topic: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co  (Read 9606 times)

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Offline tobyportugal

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Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« on: June 28, 2024, 03:31:19 AM »
Hello,

As announced, I'm launching a test.
As a preamble :
1/ The Barani equipment is on loan to me during my stay in Belgium, which is likely to be a long one.
2/ For those who are suspicious, I'm not being paid by anyone!
3/ The aim is to be able to compare the same equipment under the same technical conditions in two very different places, Portugal and Belgium.
4/ I'm not going to respond to repetitive speeches that have no basis in fact or in the style of "I have a friend who...".
Some of you know me, I'm probably not much of a meteorologist/analyst, but one thing I can say for sure is that my set-ups are rigorous and precise.
The data is processed using an Excel file that comes from an Italian.
Many of you know my file. This file has been extensively modified because I'm always amazed at what I read here or elsewhere, where information confirming or refuting a conclusion is very often missing. For example, saying that the sun rises when it's overheated without adding information about the position of the sun is like saying "my back sometimes hurts in the morning without specifying the context".
In Portugal, I have a VP2 with a Lambrecht rain gauge.
The Barani Helix/Wind/Rain IoT trio.
Pro3, Pro3FARS, Rad14 and Comet F8004 (very instructive on the influence of the positioning of a height and/or centring sensor).
They are all equipped with SHT45, the Pro3 with a dual SHT35/SHT45 sensor.
The FARS2 will come as a supplement.
The base is a totally modified Ecowitt EP, I've only kept the datalogger. The data comes directly from the GW.
Eventually I hope to finish my 3D supports, but I'm running into a manufacturing problem: small 3D printers aren't precise enough when it comes to managing the holes. It's not essential.

In Belgium, the first stage will be the commissioning of the Barani IoT trio.
I'll be dismantling them regularly to detect any signs of defects and/or abnormal wear. On this point, I'm open to dialogue as long as it's courteous and constructive, and of course I'm directly concerned by IoTs.
In September, I'm going to take my Lambrecht home and plug it into the Helix. If I manage to double the data outputs, it will be very interesting to be able to compare data processing.
This rain gauge is a reference: https://www.lambrecht.net/en/products/precipitation/precipitation-sensor-according-to-joss-tognini
The second stage will be the commissioning of the Pro3 and Pro FARS2, I hope to also have a FARS (1st version) the reason is simple: to be able to quantify the improvements of version 2. It will be very interesting to be able to compare the same shelter/sensor in two completely different places.
Initially, they'll be fitted with SHT35s until September, when they'll be upgraded to SHT45s (I'll have to repatriate some tools to make them).
Initially, my budget won't allow me to buy a Rad14 and a Comet for Belgium.
A TS100... when I'm sure I can get it to work properly. A complicated instrument used incorrectly is useless except to flatter one's ego.
The location in Belgium:
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZxRRe0ZX3sLQBQazjpFNLSTJ6clKppdV3rX
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZTRRe0ZULWlseTAzFpSz3iPXI2oOSUWsW4V
In the Gembloux countryside, where I am, there are very frequent thunderstorms, so the situation is interesting for the behaviour of the shelters.
In Portugal, I have absolutely no shade throughout the day.
In Belgium, that's not the case at the end of the day, at a height of 1.50m I lose +/- the last hour of radiation before the sun goes below the horizon.
I'm wondering whether I should keep the 1.50 m height or go up to 2 m to gain a little more radiation. ( ?)

PS: If this post turns into a dialogue of the deaf or stupid, my observations will remain private!

Offline mauro63

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2024, 03:47:26 AM »
I'm wondering whether I should keep the 1.50 m height or go up to 2 m to gain a little more radiation. ( ?)

PS: If this post turns into a dialogue of the deaf or stupid, my observations will remain private!


on the final part I would not hesitate, in my humble opinion, to go up to 2 m, when we are more than 1.2 m from the ground the differences become very subtle

I absolutely agree about the ending

M.

Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2024, 11:31:19 PM »
OK, with the WS67 I'm going to test to see if the 2m height really makes a difference to the period of sunlight on the shelters.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2024, 11:33:41 PM by tobyportugal »

Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2024, 07:30:23 AM »

Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2024, 03:14:39 AM »
The FARS sensor is dead, so I'll have to wait until I get back to Portugal.
PS: "Toby" manufacture, so there's no point in looking elsewhere for the fault..
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Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2024, 04:20:34 AM »
Here, you can see my favourite Portuguese playground, with no radiation and strictly identical sensors to determine the speed of a shelter.
The night-time yo-yo is dictated by the wind.

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Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2024, 04:18:29 AM »
After a delay, a MeteoRain IoT will be installed in Belgium.
So will a Pro3 and a FARS (second version).
The FARS will be in Belgium for a short time before being placed in Portugal in November.
The Portuguese FARS will be sent to Barani for updating and then returned to Belgium.
As for the sensors, they'll initially be SHT35s, followed by SHT45s, which I plan to test on my home-made support.
I'm not giving up hope of fitting SHT45s with a Sensirion PTFE membrane.

https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZQgiI0ZPrlCqubc2JRDqpG4wURnqXAmoVHy

Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2024, 12:43:09 PM »
Here's an update, with a few delays and changes for various reasons.
1/ MeteoRain IoT: this is the new version, with a direct-reading SPIEA as the control instrument.
2/ Shelters: a Pro3 and a new version of FARS will initially be fitted with 'simple' bare SHT35s. I'm going to modify my SHT45s with another model of SHT45, which I think will be an excellent development and guarantee the same reliability as the SHTs with filters but without their disadvantages. At the moment I'm looking for a supplier.
A meteobridge will be used as a datalogger at one-minute intervals. A simple WS68 mounted slightly above the shelters. The aim is not to have WMO-compliant wind/radiation but to know exactly the wind/radiation values at the height of the shelters.
I should point out that I'm financing everything out of my own pocket, only the 3 Barani instruments are on loan.
I don't despair of adding other shelters, the aim being to compare two different environments and not to 'prove' that x is better than y. So for each modification, I need two shelters. The Comet is too expensive and too specific to install in Belgium. The Rad14 perhaps.
This dual installation has a number of advantages if you get out of your established habits.


Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2024, 09:46:40 AM »

Offline bianconero57

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2024, 10:16:32 AM »
 :oops: the question in standby remains the practicality of putting into service for example a PWM generator  :idea:

Offline Meteorology fan

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2024, 11:36:06 AM »
Is there a ‘tuba’ there like at Davis FARS24H in Barani FARS?
Ecowitt WS90 1.3.8, WS80 1.2.5, Ecowitt WS68, Ecowitt WH31EP/WH32EP, WH40, WH57, WN34L, WH51, WN34D, HP2560_C, HP2550_C, GW1100, GW2000. Davis Vantage Pro 2, Davis Vue, Davis 6313, Hongyuv WDS2E

PT1000 4-wire - Termio 2 (3x)

Barani Meteoshield Pro II, III, Davis FARS 24H, Apogee TS100

Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2024, 03:42:18 PM »
:oops: the question in standby remains the practicality of putting into service for example a PWM generator  :idea:

We'll have to wait until I get back to Portugal.
But the biggest problem will be connecting to a datagogger.
The signal itself isn't very complicated,

Offline tobyportugal

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Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2024, 01:57:12 AM »
A small update: to reduce the budget I'm going to bring my Lambrecht 1500 manual gauge back from Portugal instead of buying a SPIEA (140€).
For the anti-Barani crowd, in the absence of any other shelter, my Comet will be coming to Belgium.
I have installed a small camera to monitor the shadows on the shelters during my stays in Portugal.

https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZLn3y5Z92Do2ELGz0R6fCvWyS9xqk53Vlkk

Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2024, 12:23:47 AM »
This type of installation, commonly used, is not good for rainfall.
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZVMWX5ZNB4BbYnBGR7v5F3STobJFzv4fslk
With waterlogged soil, there is no stability at the top of the 1.5 m pole.
The soil acts as a spring, and it's highly likely that the buckets will tip over.
A 5€ bag of concrete + an old bucket (template) and that's it.
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZQxfX5Za7xT77A4vAhqJCb5sJFi1jwb8cxV

Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2024, 02:55:36 PM »
As I don't feel like sterile discussions like elsewhere.
I close this post, those who know me and want to see the evolution of my instruments in Portugal and Belgium with complete data know how to contact me.
Thank you for not replying!

Offline Jasper3012

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2024, 04:38:28 PM »
Hi Toby, I'm interested in your data but I've been under the impression you're still in the process of setting up your stations and your comparisons and therefore I haven't interacted with this up till now.

Edit: if you can explain the current situation to me in clear terms, give some insight on your plans and provide a link where I can follow set data, I'll gladly give my input, if I have something valuable to say.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2024, 04:42:45 PM by Jasper3012 »

Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2024, 04:25:54 AM »
No long speeches, just data. Everyone can draw their own conclusions.
I haven't had any fun changing the legends on my graphs.
So the "PRO3 SHT45" corresponds to the EP without filter, the "FARS" corresponds to the original EP with filter.
Export 5 min Ecowitt Net as most do (a method I no longer use for my tests).
After installation of the 2 probes in a Pro3 and stabilisation, it was installed outside to spend the night (without wind).
This morning I put it in, waited and took it out again.
You can easily see the 'performance to change' of one and the other and draw conclusions.
I would remind you that an SHT35 has optimum precision from 20°!
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Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2024, 02:58:08 PM »
Some people are going to think I'm a clown, but I've found what I wanted, so commissioning has been postponed.
For my shelters in Belgium it shouldn't take too long (December), but those in Portugal are going to be more complicated.
I've found some SHT45-AD1F which will enable me to guarantee better reliability over time without altering the HR performance and, above all, to be able to mount it on 5 or 6 mm PTFE tubes!
This compares with brackets that are usually 2x bigger.



Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2024, 02:33:45 AM »
To finish with the sensors with or without filters, before I left for Portugal (02/11), I put a Pro3 in a closed garage with the two SHT35s (with and without filters).
So no daylight, no wind.
You can see that the SHT35 with filter (blue line) is systematically warmer than the SHT35 without filter (red line), despite the very low amplitude.

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Offline mauro63

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2024, 12:13:01 PM »
To finish with the sensors with or without filters, before I left for Portugal (02/11), I put a Pro3 in a closed garage with the two SHT35s (with and without filters).
So no daylight, no wind.
You can see that the SHT35 with filter (blue line) is systematically warmer than the SHT35 without filter (red line), despite the very low amplitude.



My personal opinion, simply the sensors are not aligned, in adiabatic conditions, and I assume it is so, the presence or absence of the filter cannot trigger any difference, it is a simple misalignment dictated by the tolerances of the sensor.

For this reason, personally, I do not take into account differences less than 0.2 °C even if my sensors have been aligned in the range -10 / +40, evaluating such subtle differences requires a certification performed at a metrological institute, which will also issue a measurement uncertainty that will need to be considered

M.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2024, 12:16:11 PM by mauro63 »

Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2024, 01:14:11 PM »
To finish with the sensors with or without filters, before I left for Portugal (02/11), I put a Pro3 in a closed garage with the two SHT35s (with and without filters).
So no daylight, no wind.
You can see that the SHT35 with filter (blue line) is systematically warmer than the SHT35 without filter (red line), despite the very low amplitude.



My personal opinion, simply the sensors are not aligned, in adiabatic conditions, and I assume it is so, the presence or absence of the filter cannot trigger any difference, it is a simple misalignment dictated by the tolerances of the sensor.

For this reason, personally, I do not take into account differences less than 0.2 °C even if my sensors have been aligned in the range -10 / +40, evaluating such subtle differences requires a certification performed at a metrological institute, which will also issue a measurement uncertainty that will need to be considered

M.

I could have agreed with you, but you can see that from 6pm onwards the sensor with the filter follows the descent, but with a delay.
This contradicts your analysis, if I offset by -0.1°, I'll have a negative drift when the 2 temperatures are identical on this graph.
Here's another example from 03/11, clearly showing the delay of the sensor with filter. (same conditions)

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Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2024, 01:14:53 PM »
For your information, my Helix in Portugal has moved to another location to set up a rainfall test project.
So the temperatures are illusory.  :grin:

Offline tobyportugal

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Re: Test/Evaluation Barani and Co
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2024, 01:20:13 PM »
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