Author Topic: Help with CWOP  (Read 9559 times)

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Offline Ahill

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2024, 12:58:07 PM »
Interesting. I got my API but went directly to the CWOP site to register and confirmed my email but did not get anything that I could see to enter my information as you did but rather an information page with what hardware and software is compatible. The ws5000 was not listed and thus how this confusing process started
Perhaps because i did it directly through CWOP instead of ambient/cwop. But i will try again using what you mentioned.
I still want to know what the weather bridge actually does and when it is needed
Thanks

Offline weatherbee

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2024, 12:59:59 PM »
You don't go through the CWOP site to set up the sending.
You might need a CWOP call sign through them if you don't already have one.  If you do you never need to go to the CWOP site.  It all done at ambientcwop.com
Tom

Offline Ahill

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2024, 01:18:32 PM »
Thanks again. Apparently thats where i got lost lol

Offline Ahill

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2024, 10:18:48 AM »
Why wait until airport is at 1013.2 for best calibration shouldn’t everything be relevant?
And what is your method of doing this, check continuously every 15 minutes to an hour while it is close?

Lastly we are back to the original post on reporting to CWOP. As I mentioned the ws5000 currently can not report to CWOP because it lacks a weather bridge that is compatible. Is there some work around for this or are the only options to wait for a weather bridge to be available or get a different station all together?

Exactly. Why wait? Calibrate now - check later. If you wait until Altimeter = 1013.2 before starting the calibration process, you may be waiting for some time. In reality there is not a fixed linear relationship with station pressure (ABS) and Altimeter. The pressure difference calculator calculates the pressure difference assuming Altimeter = 1013.25.
You mention that your curent airport Altimeter pressure is around 1020 or higher?
Then check your numbers again when Altimeter drops down to 1013.25. Your maximum accuracy should be at that specific pressure. If not, adjust ABS until REL matches again. Always double check.If you are within 0.3 mb or so,leave it - you are close enough.

Sorry, I don't use the CWOP service.The Ecowitt display-less console(GW1200) provides a pressure reading that can be forwarded to CWOP. Perhaps others with more hardware expertise can suggest alternatives. I believe that forwarding can be done in software as well.

Lastly, taking an average from multiple readings is from the CWOP manual. It is a method among many. Pesonally, I believe it is not necessary.

Thanks for all the questions which has inspired me do an example based on the thread. Making adjustments is infinitely easier on a display-less console so I will write something more specific to display consoles.

I am not very good at putting posts together with quotes and replies but here goes

Gszlag, you are the “pressure “ expert can you please explain something to me that is confusing me.
When checking the METAR report at the airport it reads altimeter pressure in inHg, mbar and then SLP sea level pressure.
Why is the altimeter always higher than the sea level pressure when pressure decreases with altitude
Am i not reading it correctly or not understanding it
 And something about cwop I don’t know if you can answer or where I can find out but the lat and long they have listed for me does not match my console exactly and doesn’t make sense
For example the lat reads 28.32.82 and long 0823300
The lat only goes to 28.32.59 on google earth then goes to the next level 28.33.00 28.33.01 etc
The long seems correct
Am i not reading that either. I don’t know where they(CWOP) is getting those numbers
I am confused and concerned only because they really want yoyr location and pressure to really be precise
I do want to mention that since you provided me with the very great detailed information to calibrate my barometer and we calibrated it, we have been sitting with some high pressure and while i was working on some things had the time to further try and calibrate it by reading the METAR once every hour for four hours then finding the mean difference. I actually did it twice and came up with a total mean difference of + 0.03 hpa/mbar.  [tup] \:D/
Perhaps being so close to sea level and only being 7 miles from the airport also helps.
Thanks for any help you can provide
T-

Offline gszlag

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2024, 04:23:01 PM »
Millibars (mb or mbar) and hectopascals (hPa) are equivalent Customary units for Altimeter are inches mercury and for SLP it is mb.  Then again, other countries may be different.

Aviators know this rule: QNH/Altimeter > QFF/SLP when outside temperature > standard condition temperature - about 15C(at your elevation) and vce versa.

Lat/long...are you comparing minutes/seconds with decimal lat/long? There's 60 seconds in a minute so that why it increases by a minute when seconds > 59.There's probably an online calculator to do a conversion to the desired units.

Re: pressure. You are finding out that when ABS (station presssure) changes, the pressure difference you calculated also changes creating an error.  For better accuracy re-calibrate around the average airport pressure (1013.2/29.92). No use calibrating at an extreme high or low.
The barometer wiki - for everything barometric!
 www.barometer-wiki.ca/barometer
---
Personal weather stations (pws):
Ambient Weather + Ecowitt
---
Station elevation: 191 m
METAR: CYZE Elevation 189.9 m

Offline Ahill

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2024, 05:24:36 PM »
Millibars (mb or mbar) and hectopascals (hPa) are equivalent Customary units for Altimeter are inches mercury and for SLP it is mb.  Then again, other countries may be different.

Aviators know this rule: QNH/Altimeter > QFF/SLP when outside temperature > standard condition temperature - about 15C(at your elevation) and vce versa.

Lat/long...are you comparing minutes/seconds with decimal lat/long? There's 60 seconds in a minute so that why it increases by a minute when seconds > 59.There's probably an online calculator to do a conversion to the desired units.

Re: pressure. You are finding out that when ABS (station presssure) changes, the pressure difference you calculated also changes creating an error.  For better accuracy re-calibrate around the average airport pressure (1013.2/29.92). No use calibrating at an extreme high or low.

Ok, well i was calibrating also with the following method you mentioned earlier and thought i was good at only +0.03 hpa.
As for why the SLP pressure Is higher than the elevation pressure at the airport is because the outside standard temperature is less than the standard condition temp of 15C from what you are also saying ? I need to try and understand that some more I guess.

And as for lat and long it is what ambient/cwop is displaying as my location. That needs to be verified. I have no idea what method they are using all i know is it does not match what i have entered in my console
My longitude ends in 32.49 according to google earth etc. and what they have it end is in 32.89 and there is no 89 minutes. Here is the earlier instructions for calibrating that was in your post that I referenced

The following calibration procedure is recommended:

Select a nearby (within 20 miles or 32 km) airport weather station (regional or larger) to provide your reference or calibrated pressure.
   
Wait for optimal weather conditions to conduct a series of comparisons; these conditions are:

High pressure is nearly overhead
Wind is less than 5 mph (3 m/s), preferably calm
Outside air temperature should relatively stable or slowly changing
Best time to conduct pressure comparisons is in the early afternoon; if the winds are light, then you are reasonably certain high pressure is in the area.

Edit: Unless you live very close to the airport, make sure that you and the airport are in the same pressure system/zone before doing the comparisons.

3. Take a series of four simultaneous pressure measurements using the altimeter pressure from the airport “METAR” report and your barometer:

a) Each comparison should be at least be 15 minutes apart or 1 hr apart for airports that report only hourly.

b) After completing the four comparisons noting your altimeter and the reference airport pressure [differences]; sum the differences between the comparisons and divide by 4 (the number of comparisons) to get a mean difference.

4. If the mean difference between your station and the reference station is more than +/ 00.03 inches for altimeter comparisons, or +/ 1.0 mb; add (or subtract) the difference to correct your altimeter. Repeat the procedure until you achieve the goal of a pressure difference of less than +/ 00.03 inHg or +/ 1.0 mb.

5. Barometers occasionally will “drift” requiring recalibration. Therefore, barometer comparisons (with the Altimeter setting at the airport) should be done at least annually.

Offline gszlag

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2024, 07:16:16 AM »
The CWOP steps that you mentioned are from the CWOP manual.

I think there was a misunderstanding as I had stated..."taking an average from multiple readings is from the CWOP manual. It is a method among many. Pesonally, I believe it is not necessary."

I thought you mentioned that you were calibrated? If you are out by 1.0 hpa for Altimeter in just a few days, you are in the weeds for sure. I am afraid you may have to start over...

The relationship between QNH and QFF is an advanced topic, As you are just starting out - it is a topic for a later discussion. There is an old post about this subject in the forum(can't seem to locate it currently). Right now, I would concentrate on fixing your barometer first.
The barometer wiki - for everything barometric!
 www.barometer-wiki.ca/barometer
---
Personal weather stations (pws):
Ambient Weather + Ecowitt
---
Station elevation: 191 m
METAR: CYZE Elevation 189.9 m

Offline Ahill

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2024, 08:20:59 AM »
No i don’t believe i am out of calibration enough. Maybe I didn’t explain it correctly. According to CWOP if you are >1hpa compared to the METAR then it needs to be calibrated. Mine is only 0.15 off which is just a fraction of 1.00 after comparing 12 readings.
For example:
Airport pressure is 1020.3
      Mine would be 1020.4
Just 0.15 higher after doing the math lol
According to CWOP if mine was 1021.4 or higher then it would need to be calibrated from what I understand.

As for the longitude i was able to figure it out the numbers were LORAN not minutes which explains the difference
« Last Edit: March 04, 2024, 08:22:33 AM by Ahill »

Offline gszlag

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2024, 08:28:55 AM »
No i don’t believe i am out of calibration enough. Maybe I didn’t explain it correctly. According to CWOP if you are >1hpa compared to the METAR then it needs to be calibrated. Mine is only 0.15 off which is just a fraction of 1.00 after comparing 12 readings.
For example:
Airport pressure is 1020.3
 Mine would be 1020.4
Just 0.15 higher after doing the math lol
According to CWOP if mine was 1021.4 or higher then it would need to be calibrated from what I understand.
As for the longitude i was able to figure it out the numbers were LORAN not minutes which explains the difference

Glad to hear that!. Since you are almost at sea level >1.0 hpa would be a huge error in such a short time span.
The barometer wiki - for everything barometric!
 www.barometer-wiki.ca/barometer
---
Personal weather stations (pws):
Ambient Weather + Ecowitt
---
Station elevation: 191 m
METAR: CYZE Elevation 189.9 m

Offline Ahill

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2024, 10:56:11 AM »
You don't go through the CWOP site to set up the sending.
You might need a CWOP call sign through them if you don't already have one.  If you do you never need to go to the CWOP site.  It all done at ambientcwop.com
Tom
Hi Tom, apparently i am on CWOP now but wondering how you got that dashboard you displayed?
Thanks
T-

Offline weatherbee

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2024, 11:27:59 AM »
Go to https://ambientcwop.com/
You have to create an account by hitting the signup button.
You will at some point add the CWOP call sign and you should be set.
They have a nice dashboard to see the status of your uploads.
Tom

Offline Ahill

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2024, 11:55:17 AM »
Go to https://ambientcwop.com/
You have to create an account by hitting the signup button.
You will at some point add the CWOP call sign and you should be set.

Tom

Yeah the CWOP ID is fine now but apparently the latest snag is Madis ID not set up.
Not quite there yet.

I just don’t know how you were able to do everything with only going to ambient/cwop lol.
So far Ive had to go to ambient/cwop, CWOP, and Findu to do different things and its still not done.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2024, 11:58:53 AM by Ahill »

Offline weatherbee

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2024, 12:02:55 PM »
I've had my CWOP station call sign for 22 years.
I had the CWOP and MADIS call signs already.
Once you have those it's easy to set up the sending of data.
You'll get there.
Tom

Offline Ahill

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2024, 08:24:51 PM »
Gszlag’s information on getting calibrated has been nicely detailed and great. I am learning new things everyday. Now that things are up and running i noticed that MADIS is doing its QC. What does MADIS use to do its qc. What I am actually wondering is can you make adjustments to your barometer to further calibrate by using the qc results MADIS provides.
For example if MADIS says that the barometer had an average error of + 0.4 mb, can you just decrease yours by 0.4 to be more accurate instead of doing the original calculation of using the airport METAR and calculating the difference. What are they comparing it to.
They also compare the temperature, does the temp need to be calibrated.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2024, 08:26:58 PM by Ahill »

Offline weatherbee

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2024, 08:39:50 PM »

Offline Ahill

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2024, 09:08:04 PM »
Thanks for the help. As I’ve said i am learning from scratch as i go. One day i will look back at everything and laugh  :lol:

Offline Ahill

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2024, 09:43:01 PM »
very interesting and informative but still a bit confused if the goal is better to get as close to 0 difference with MADIS vs 0 difference with the METAR at the airport.

Offline gszlag

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2024, 09:27:49 AM »
Difference is that you are comparing with an expensive, calibrated instrument at an airport versus an average of good and bad station data from amateur weather stations.
The barometer wiki - for everything barometric!
 www.barometer-wiki.ca/barometer
---
Personal weather stations (pws):
Ambient Weather + Ecowitt
---
Station elevation: 191 m
METAR: CYZE Elevation 189.9 m

Offline Ahill

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Re: Help with CWOP
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2024, 09:47:24 AM »
versus an average of good and bad station data from amateur weather stations.

Aha, thats what i was  trying to clarify. That MADIS puts it up against all the amateur stations data good or bad. Yes, that makes perfect sense to go off the airport data.
Thanks