Topic: GW1003, how can i get the heater cable by USB?

[solartempest]

I guess they have a different model for the North-American continent.  The plug there is different (by the way in the UK too). Maybe there's a different label on the supply box for North America. We will know once someone from there gets themselves one.

Good point!

If the WH45 isn't offered on on Amazon Canada, I might have to order one of these heater supply cables too because I would be ordering directly from Ecowitt. Already convinced my wife last week that a WH45 is good idea and this power supply looks to be better than anything I would easily put together. 

Really interested to see how you like using the heater plate in snow and icy conditions. I was sad to give up meaningful wind data for this time of year.

[Gyvate]

I guess they have a different model for the North-American continent.  The plug there is different (by the way in the UK too). Maybe there's a different label on the supply box for North America. We will know once someone from there gets themselves one.

Good point!

If the WH45 isn't offered on on Amazon Canada, I might have to order one of these heater supply cables too because I would be ordering directly from Ecowitt. Already convinced my wife last week that a WH45 is good idea and this power supply looks to be better than anything I would easily put together. 

Really interested to see how you like using the heater plate in snow and icy conditions. I was sad to give up meaningful wind data for this time of year.

my WS80 wind measurements were ok all the time and sort of "in line" with my WH65 - today we have had rather stronger winds again (up to 50 km/h). But if the snow had stayed longer on top of the WS80, my solar radiation meaurement would have been blocked and I would have needed to take it down for some  de-icing, de-snowing. So that heater is very useful in winter time(s).

Unfortunately the delivery of my power supply got delayed by one week due to some strange karma (wrong name on the label).
And yesterday and day before yesterday were the cold days here - down to -8°C, the lowest winter temperature in my area in the past three years. ( we also had -25°C some years ago, but that's rather exceptional; but who knows with the jet stream over the Artic changing ....). Now raining, no more snow. When it's dry again I'll take my WS80 briefly down to connect the cable.
My WH65 rain gauge is heated by a DIY solution. That works well. No snow staying in the funnel - only once, but that was due to a leaf which covered the exit.

[davidmc36]

Nice Gyvate! That does answer a lot of questions.

It's an isolated power supply so actually it won't be easy to check which is +12VDC or -12VDC since it's a floating system. This may be the reason why Ecowitt changed from a USB power supply (ground referenced) to one with galvanic separation so you would need two insulation failures for improved safety.

Looks like it might be a fully sealed unit. Even though it's IP68, the duration is not specified and per IEC standards that's up to the manufacturer. It likely not permanent immersion but some considerable amount of time since it's rated for the outdoors.

Do you have a photo for the print on the DC wires to the WS80? Curious to see what the wire sizes were. I can see the incoming cable is 2C-18AWG (0.75mm2).

Also if you have a closer photo of the power supply label I am curious to know what certification markings it has. Looks like TUV GS (German approval) along with CCC (Chinese approval) on the cable jacket.

What makes you say "floating" isn't that a DC symbol beside 12V and the circle with D shaped center is showing polarity of plug?????

[Quagmire]

Wait, so the power supply for the WS80 is 12V now? The official photos on the Ecowitt site show a 5V unit and the specs are listed as: Output: 5V 2000mA 10W.

Are you sure they sent you the correct PSU? I mean the units look similar to each-other but 5V and 12V are worlds apart.

[solartempest]

What makes you say "floating" isn't that a DC symbol beside 12V and the circle with D shaped center is showing polarity of plug?????

You are correct. If the flat side of the connector is considered to be the "bottom" then +'ve is on the left and -'ve is on the right. Floating is denoted by the SELV marking.

Looking again at the Ecowitt website - the USA version is pictured with CUL markings and 5V, 2A, 10W output. This is different from the 12V, 1A, 12W output that Gyvate has received. The overall power is the essentially same and most resistors are rated to withstand much more than 12VDC. Not sure how the thermostat would work.

[wardie]

My Ecowitt package, including the UK spec EC0002, looks like it may arrive tomorrow via FedEx tracking. Late Xmas presents! So I’ll post update with what I get... Lucy knew it was for my WS80 when I sorted out the order with her so it will be interesting to see if they’ve changed the output voltage from 5V (which is what still shows on their website page for all regions).

[davidmc36]

What makes you say "floating" isn't that a DC symbol beside 12V and the circle with D shaped center is showing polarity of plug?????

You are correct. If the flat side of the connector is considered to be the "bottom" then +'ve is on the left and -'ve is on the right. Floating is denoted by the SELV marking.

Looking again at the Ecowitt website - the USA version is pictured with CUL markings and 5V, 2A, 10W output. This is different from the 12V, 1A, 12W output that Gyvate has received. The overall power is the essentially same and most resistors are rated to withstand much more than 12VDC. Not sure how the thermostat would work.

I didn't know the term SELV

Imagine what we will know tomorrow.

[Quagmire]

Looking again at the Ecowitt website - the USA version is pictured with CUL markings and 5V, 2A, 10W output. This is different from the 12V, 1A, 12W output that Gyvate has received. The overall power is the essentially same and most resistors are rated to withstand much more than 12VDC. Not sure how the thermostat would work.

True, but I guess I'm just so accustomed to not over-volting things. Anyway, the heating element seems to draw about 415mA based on my testing (Ruideng USB tester and a DC clamp meter). At 5V, that's just a hair over 2W of power. If the heating element can be fed 12V, that should be just shy of 5W of power. I just fired of a message to Ecowitt to see if they can clarify what voltage the WS80 is supposed to be fed.

For the time being, I have my WS80 running using a 5V power supply; all seems fine but I'm not sure what the heating plate is actually heating . Is the element under the surface conditioning layer or is it right under the solar array? This thing is almost begging me to do a tear-down

[the beteljuice]

Thanks for the figures Quag ... I was just about to post DANGER, but things just fit ...

5V, 415mA = load 12 Ohm

12V, 12 Ohm = 1.0A = the rating of the power supply 

[solartempest]

Test DC supply: USB 5VDC/2A and USB 5VDC/0.7A
Ambient air temperature: -1.6C
Test leads: Fluke pincer leads connected directly to the WS80 connector pins.

Connector configuration: If the key is considered "bottom", the left pin is +'ve and the right pin is -'ve. If you reverse the connections, the thermostat will not come on.
Following measurements taken with calipers:

• Connector thread outer diameter: 11.5mm
• Connector inner opening diameter: 9.0mm
• Connector pin diameter: 1.1mm
• Connector pin inner distance: 3.1mm (edge to edge)
• Connector opening depth: 8.2mm

My WS80 drew 2.81-2.91W on a 5VDC supply measured to be 5.02VDC at my WS80 connector. The load was measured on the supply side of my AC/DC power supply. It did not matter if I used the 2A or 0.7A supply. When the DC polarity was reversed, the load was 0W.

The heat plate is located underneath the wire mesh that is below the transducers. It heats that area up only, although I did notice it may have affected the outdoor air temperature readings (or that could have been me breathing on the unit).

No need for a tear-down, here are some thermal images I took with my FLIR.

Side Notes:
1. Please only take the temperature numbers as relative because I did not let my camera fully calibrate. It was cold out and I was in socks on a metal ladder.
2. Please ignore my thermal reflection. It's impossible to take a close thermal image on a cylinder like this.
3. The material emissivities are also quite different so I would have to affix reference material to get accurate numbers. Maybe in the future, but only if that is really necessary.
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[Quagmire]

No need for a tear-down, here are some thermal images I took with my FLIR.

It was cold out and I was in socks on a metal ladder.

This is why I love this forum. Bravo!



Of course now I want a thermal camera. 

[galfert]

...and here I thought I was cool with my Fluke 62 Max+. What was I thinking.

[wardie]

@solartempest wow, just wow!

Anyway here's some relatively boring quick unboxing pics, not installed as yet. Full res on dropbox, couple of them attached. Quick observations.
- transformer is 83 x 49 x 32 mm size for the main box excluding fixings
- AEDpower AED12-1201000VDB08 input 100-240V 50/60Hz 0.6A, output 12V 1000mA max 12W, IP68
- came with a UK mains plug and the mains cable is 1.5m long
- the fixing that goes onto the WS80 has a small O-ring on it, need to watch not losing that

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2fzrsb6p5qmuz45/AAAnwW8ff_75O3Uaak0u3o_0a?dl=0

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[Quagmire]

I just got an email reply back from Ecowitt clarifying the PSU voltage difference.

Thanks for contacting.
Sorry for the confusion.
It should be 12V. The 12V is the upgraded version to help melt the ice better.
We have updated the description on our website now.
Any other question, please let us know.

[Gyvate]

I just got an email reply back from Ecowitt clarifying the PSU voltage difference.

Thanks for contacting.
Sorry for the confusion.
It should be 12V. The 12V is the upgraded version to help melt the ice better.
We have updated the description on our website now.
Any other question, please let us know.

I think, better is the key word here.
It might work quite well at lower temperatures, and with more ice than snow - that's still to be found out (whether by me I cannot tell as the conditions may not be such here).
But at temperatures between -3°C and 0°C and snowfall, it doesn't see to work completely yet.
My WS80 heating unit switches on every now and then and starts consuming 15 W.
Can tell from my consumption meter app. I don't have an IR camera.

Looks like the lower part is ice free and functional - the wind values look reasonable and are in tune with my WH65.
But the solar panel and light receptor were covered by snow and ice.
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Needed to unpack my drone to make the photo(s).
When the pictures were taken the WS80 and my WH31-EP showed still -2°C.

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Would have been difficult to take it down as the mast constrution was covered with frozen snow and ice.
Finally I had to take a broom with a long stick and my kitchen step-ladder to remove the snow cap.

Now the light readings are back again in tune with the WH65
(whose solar panel and light sensor I also had to liberate from snow and ice manually - but it's not so high up like my WS80).
Maybe it also has to do with the snow type / structure.
While yesterday we had rather compact snow, over night a very light and "puffy" type of powder snow fell and built up.
I know as last night I removed the snow from the WH40 funnel, and it had a different, more compact and heavy consistency.
I don't have an Inuit vocabulary - the native Greenlanders have 50 words for different types of snow.

[Quagmire]

I think, better is the key word here.
It might work quite well at lower temperatures, and with more ice than snow - that's still to be found out (whether by me I cannot tell as the conditions may not be such here).
But at temperatures between -3°C and 0°C and snowfall, it doesn't see to work completely yet.

I had similar conditions to yours a few days ago and my WS80 looked very similar. It makes sense though; the heating element is below the post tension/conditioning  layer (mesh screen) as solartempest's FLIR pics show. The snow on the top is unfortunate but not uncommon; I think any solar installation is a challenge in these northern climes, especially when mounted high where cleaning is not easy. These things need an integrated wiper/snow brush 

[solartempest]

But the solar panel and light receptor were covered by snow and ice.

Did you coat the solar panel housing at all to try and prevent accumulation?

I coated mine with a hydrophobic coating (Jetseal) which prevents rain from sticking/staying on top and keeps it cleaner. Didn't get to test effectiveness against the snow yet though due to my specific winter WS80 location (has a clear greenhouse poly "roof" over it which collects the snow instead and is easily cleaned).

[speerwerfer]

It also seems that not all versions of the sensor have a thermostat:

Hi,

Thanks for your contacting.
The old version of the WS80 doesn't have a heater with a built-in thermostat. And it will have for all the new orders.
Any other question, pleas let us know.

Best Regards,

[Gyvate]

the very first WS80 models didn't have - mine has a heater and a thermostat (it's just 2 months old).

But the heater has an impact on the temperature measurements (at least temporarily) - as one can see from the picture, whenever the heater switches on, there's a temperture increase of 0.5°C up to 1.0°C. You can see that the graph has little steps like a staircase.
Once it's off, it comes back to the normal temperature. The other two reference sensors are not more than 1 - 2 m away - the difference in height is 2 m between WH31 DIY and WS80, and 1 m between WS80 and WH31-EP in Meteoshield (which, by the way, shows another example of excellent performance, the MS that is).
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measuring interval 5 minutes

updated chart
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[Gyvate]

But the solar panel and light receptor were covered by snow and ice.

Did you coat the solar panel housing at all to try and prevent accumulation?

I coated mine with a hydrophobic coating (Jetseal) which prevents rain from sticking/staying on top and keeps it cleaner. Didn't get to test effectiveness against the snow yet though due to my specific winter WS80 location (has a clear greenhouse poly "roof" over it which collects the snow instead and is easily cleaned).

no coating - nothing
but what type of coating would keep powder snow from staying on an even and horizontal surface ?

[solartempest]

but what type of coating would keep powder snow from staying on an even and horizontal surface?

Good question! For my rain gauge, I used Glaco Mirror Coat Zero which is a more expensive and hard to get ultrahydrophobic nanocoating. Something like that might work but so far I only used Jetseal. I also have a different hydrophobic ceramic coating in my basement (didn't try it yet but it should be better than Jetseal).

This weekend will be around 3C so I might try and see if my WS80 has a thermostat or not then, along with a 12V test. From my 5V test where I measured the load on the 120V side, it looks like my USB supply has around 71% efficiency which is reasonable.

But the heater has an impact on the temperature measurements (at least temporarily) - as one can see from the picture, whenever the heater switches on, there's a temperture increase of up to 0.5°C. You can see that the graph has little steps like a staircase.

You confirmed what I also noticed/suspected. Didn't think me breathing so much around the WS80 would affect the temperatures so much!
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[wardie]

Have just installed my new heater cable as it is just below zero here today (-1.5C) and forecast to snow/sleet. It immediately started pulling 12W down, roughly measured temporarily using a smart power outlet at the mains socket. As I’ve also just installed a WH32 sensor so I’m getting outdoor temp/humidity anyway from ground level in the garden not up with the anemometer(s), but interesting observation above about it impacting the temp of the inbuilt WS80’s sensor.

[Quagmire]

What about installing something like this atop the WS80:




May also help to keep the birds off too; my WS80 has only been up for a few days and already a bird has made a deposit on it and it's winter so it's not like birds are that plentiful. Maybe it felt the massive amount of heat emanating from the heating element

No idea how that would affect the solar panel in the WS80 but it's designed for imaging and claims to have 94% transparency and low distortions.

[the beteljuice]

The beteljuice remembered "... and depending on their installed location, heat can reduce output efficiency by 10-25%.".

... but then again heat would be a Summer problem, so a loss of 25% might not be a problem - but what about "Solar" readings 

[wardie]

The beteljuice remembered "... and depending on their installed location, heat can reduce output efficiency by 10-25%.".

Trivial today anyway but I’m guessing snow impacts their efficiency too...
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