Author Topic: Precipitation rate  (Read 1925 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AeroPilot

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Precipitation rate
« on: July 01, 2019, 12:05:26 PM »
Is the precipitation rate (or lack thereof) on my PWS page a function of my hardware (5n1), or a WU calculation? Thanks.

Offline nincehelser

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3337
Re: Precipitation rate
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2019, 01:21:49 PM »
Is the precipitation rate (or lack thereof) on my PWS page a function of my hardware (5n1), or a WU calculation? Thanks.

It's a WU calculation based on the amount of rain that has accumulated in the past 60 minutes.

From WU's upload protocol page, here is the section dealing with precipitation values:

Code: [Select]
rainin - [rain inches over the past hour)] -- the accumulated rainfall in the past 60 min
dailyrainin - [rain inches so far today in local time]

https://feedback.weather.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2924682-pws-upload-protocol?b_id=17298

Offline AeroPilot

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: Precipitation rate
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2019, 02:22:44 PM »
Thanks for the prompt reply. It appears as though about 2/3 of the stations near me show rate, but my PWS never has. Of those that do, the brand of equipment seems irrelevant. Oh well.

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6822
Re: Precipitation rate
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2019, 04:09:53 PM »
I disagree. The Rain Rate is not a calculation by WU.  The Rain Rate is a calculation that your station does and then sends that data to WU. The most likely reason your station doesn't show a Rain Rate has to do with how poorly WU is handling the data they receive. The new WU site is not properly displaying the Rain Rate. If the Rain Rate is below 0.5 inches per hour then it still continues to show 0 inches per hour. Only when the Rain Rate is greater than 0.5 inches per hour do you then see 1 inch per hour as the Rain Rate...even when the Rain Rate is 0.6 inches per hour. Then the same thing again it will stay at 1 inch per hour until the Rain Rate is 1.5 inches per hour.

WU does not do any calculations on your data on the back end. The front end (what you see) though is poorly being displayed because of poor rounding.
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline nincehelser

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3337
Re: Precipitation rate
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2019, 04:11:18 PM »
I disagree. The Rain Rate is not a calculation by WU.  The Rain Rate is a calculation that your station does and then sends that data to WU. The most likely reason your station doesn't show a Rain Rate has to do with how poorly WU is handling the data they receive. The new WU site is not properly displaying the Rain Rate. If the Rain Rate is below 0.5 inches per hour then it still continues to show 0 inches per hour. Only when the Rain Rate is greater than 0.5 inches per hour do you then see 1 inch per hour as the Rain Rate...even when the Rain Rate is 0.6 inches per hour. Then the same thing again it will stay at 1 inch per hour until the Rain Rate is 1.5 inches per hour.

Nope, nope, nope.

You're getting really tiresome with your bad math and nonsense about protocols and how equipment works.

Per the protocol, you are supposed to send the rain accumulation for the past hour.  Wunderground then normalizes this data to a shorter time period to come up with the number they graph and display.

It's just that simple.

Yes, wunderground is having issues.  We all know that.  You should go work for them if you have all the answers.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 04:21:36 PM by nincehelser »

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6822
Re: Precipitation rate
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2019, 04:13:42 PM »
I disagree. The Rain Rate is not a calculation by WU.  The Rain Rate is a calculation that your station does and then sends that data to WU. The most likely reason your station doesn't show a Rain Rate has to do with how poorly WU is handling the data they receive. The new WU site is not properly displaying the Rain Rate. If the Rain Rate is below 0.5 inches per hour then it still continues to show 0 inches per hour. Only when the Rain Rate is greater than 0.5 inches per hour do you then see 1 inch per hour as the Rain Rate...even when the Rain Rate is 0.6 inches per hour. Then the same thing again it will stay at 1 inch per hour until the Rain Rate is 1.5 inches per hour.

Nope, nope, nope.

You're getting really tiresome with your bad math and nonsense about protocols and equipment work.

When you capture WU data ...intercept it....you can see the Rain Rate. So there it is before it gets to WU's servers.  People are doing this for WeeWx and Acuparse and other DIY scripts. So sorry to say....you are wrong.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 04:37:56 PM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6822
Re: Precipitation rate
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2019, 04:23:34 PM »
Thanks for the prompt reply. It appears as though about 2/3 of the stations near me show rate, but my PWS never has. Of those that do, the brand of equipment seems irrelevant. Oh well.

There is another reason why you may see rain rates for surrounding stations and not yours. There are two methods to commonly used to send Rain Rate and they represent two different concepts. They are not related. It is up to the console manufacture or the 3rd party software you are using as to which method is used. There is officially based on WU documentation only supposed to be one method. But in practice and based on what other manufactures and software are doing you then see this other method used.

Typically Acurite stations send Rate Rate to equal the "actual" accumulation of the past 60 minutes.

Where other hardware like Davis, Ambient, and Ecowitt are using "instantaneous" Rain Rate instead. This instantaneous Rain Rate by nature of what it represents shows higher numbers as it is a projection of how much rain would fall if the current intensity of rainfall continued for 1 hour.

So when your station shows 0 in/hr Rain Rate and you see others showing 1 or 2 in/hr then you most likely are looking at other stations that are not Acurite and are using the other "instantaneous"  method.

Bottom line is that you can't compare Rain Rates of neighboring stations unless they both are utilizing the same method. You don't need to know what brand they all are. You can just quickly inspect the precipitation graph and it is obvious which station is using which method as they are clear as day different and impossible to confuse.

Both of the following were take from the same hardware rain gauge at the same moment but recorded by two different software onto two different WU IDs. Notice the blue line "total precipitation" is the same on both of these. The Rain Rate methods are represented by the green line.

Instantaneous rate
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Actual accumulation rate
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 04:40:31 PM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline nincehelser

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3337
Re: Precipitation rate
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2019, 04:25:53 PM »
Thanks for the prompt reply. It appears as though about 2/3 of the stations near me show rate, but my PWS never has. Of those that do, the brand of equipment seems irrelevant. Oh well.

Typically Acurite stations send Rate Rate to equal the "actual" accumulation of the past 60 minutes.


Because that's what the protocol says to do.  :roll:

The whole reason, as I've explained many times before, is to make "rain rate" values comparable between different stations of different makes and software.

So the stations don't send a self-computed rain-rate, instead they send the rain that has accumulated in the past 60 minutes, and let wunderground do with that as the will for consistancy.

Talk about beating a dead horse!


« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 04:30:03 PM by nincehelser »

Offline nincehelser

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3337
Re: Precipitation rate
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2019, 04:33:25 PM »
I disagree. The Rain Rate is not a calculation by WU.  The Rain Rate is a calculation that your station does and then sends that data to WU. The most likely reason your station doesn't show a Rain Rate has to do with how poorly WU is handling the data they receive. The new WU site is not properly displaying the Rain Rate. If the Rain Rate is below 0.5 inches per hour then it still continues to show 0 inches per hour. Only when the Rain Rate is greater than 0.5 inches per hour do you then see 1 inch per hour as the Rain Rate...even when the Rain Rate is 0.6 inches per hour. Then the same thing again it will stay at 1 inch per hour until the Rain Rate is 1.5 inches per hour.

Nope, nope, nope.

You're getting really tiresome with your bad math and nonsense about protocols and equipment work.

When you capture WU data ...intercept it....you can see the Rain Rate. So there is is before it gets to WU's servers.  People are doing this for WeeWx and Acuparse and other DIY scripts. So sorry to say....you are wrong.

Ummm... yeah.  I do that all that time and wrote programs to do it long before programs like Acuparse.

Show me where "rain rate" is a transmitted parameter.  You can't do it because it doesn't even exist in the upload protocol.

You are in complete denial and don't understand the upload protocol that wunderground defined.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 04:36:41 PM by nincehelser »

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6822
Re: Precipitation rate
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2019, 04:57:56 PM »
George,
You are correct that you can send "rainin=x" and that would be the actual rain that has fallen. Then you can leave out "dailyrainin=" from the upload protocol. But if you want to show and use the "instantaneous" Rain Rate then you use both "rainin=x" and you use "dailyrainin=x" and then both of these data are transmitted.

With the official WU upload documentation you don't need "dailyrainin=" because it then gets added by WU. Still WU is not calculating the "actual" Rain Rate as that is the data that your station is sending...and WU keeps it....then they add it to dailyrainin.

With the instantaneous Rain Rate method you need to send both numbers. Then WU doesn't touch either.

Source:
https://feedback.weather.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2924682-pws-upload-protocol?b_id=17298

So we are saying the same thing...except you are arguing that we aren't at the same time. When it comes to uploading rainfall.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 05:00:45 PM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline nincehelser

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3337
Re: Precipitation rate
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2019, 05:00:35 PM »
George,
You are correct that you can send "rainin=x" and that would be the actual rain that has fallen. Then you can leave out "dailyrainin=" from the upload protocol. But if you want to show and use the "instantaneous" Rain Rate then you use both "rainin=x" and you use "dailyrainin=x" and then both of these data are transmitted.

With the official WU upload documentation you don't need "dailyrainin=" because it then gets added by WU. Still WU is not calculating the "actual" Rain Rate as that is the data that your station is sending...and WU keeps it....then they add it to dailyrainin.

With the instantaneous Rain Rate method you need to send both numbers. Then WU doesn't touch either.

Source:
https://feedback.weather.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2924682-pws-upload-protocol?b_id=17298

So we are saying the same thing...except you are arguing that we aren't at the same time.

You are completely wrong.

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6822
Re: Precipitation rate
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2019, 05:01:51 PM »
George,
You are correct that you can send "rainin=x" and that would be the actual rain that has fallen. Then you can leave out "dailyrainin=" from the upload protocol. But if you want to show and use the "instantaneous" Rain Rate then you use both "rainin=x" and you use "dailyrainin=x" and then both of these data are transmitted.

With the official WU upload documentation you don't need "dailyrainin=" because it then gets added by WU. Still WU is not calculating the "actual" Rain Rate as that is the data that your station is sending...and WU keeps it....then they add it to dailyrainin.

With the instantaneous Rain Rate method you need to send both numbers. Then WU doesn't touch either.

Source:
https://feedback.weather.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2924682-pws-upload-protocol?b_id=17298

So we are saying the same thing...except you are arguing that we aren't at the same time.

You are completely wrong.

I think we know each other pretty well by now.  This is pointless with you. As I'm sure you feel the same way. You say whatever you want to say...I'll say whatever I want to say. Let others be the judge.
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline nincehelser

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3337
Re: Precipitation rate
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2019, 05:03:59 PM »
George,
You are correct that you can send "rainin=x" and that would be the actual rain that has fallen. Then you can leave out "dailyrainin=" from the upload protocol. But if you want to show and use the "instantaneous" Rain Rate then you use both "rainin=x" and you use "dailyrainin=x" and then both of these data are transmitted.

With the official WU upload documentation you don't need "dailyrainin=" because it then gets added by WU. Still WU is not calculating the "actual" Rain Rate as that is the data that your station is sending...and WU keeps it....then they add it to dailyrainin.

With the instantaneous Rain Rate method you need to send both numbers. Then WU doesn't touch either.

Source:
https://feedback.weather.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2924682-pws-upload-protocol?b_id=17298

So we are saying the same thing...except you are arguing that we aren't at the same time.

You are completely wrong.

I think we know each other pretty well by now.  This is pointless with you. As I'm sure you feel the same way. You say whatever you want to say...I'll say whatever I want to say. Let others be the judge.

Yes, I post fact.  You just make stuff up as you go along about things you know little about.