Author Topic: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather  (Read 6713 times)

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Offline Mattk

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2020, 06:23:22 AM »
Being a little selective aren't we :lol: really would have thought all the creditable information should be taken into account?
Sorry lost context there. What "credible information" are you talking about?

Just saw your comment. I have to profess ignorance.  Where did NOAA, etc confess?

So you are in denial? And selective, like most people trying to justify their own opinions and what they want to believe, if you can't handle all the real data then don't partially quote the manipulated bits of data you like.

Offline mark_adel_oz

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2020, 06:32:29 AM »
Lets hope nobody tries to justify temperature data based on BOM interference, anything that originally represented valid actual data has been totally manipulated (apparently :)) to justify opinions based on a totally different set of so called facts  :oops:
Presumably, this has to be an on-going global conspiracy where all the USA's deadly enemies are in on it with them, but not telling.  :lol: :lol:

NASA and NOAA had to admit what they are doing, are you in denial?
Ah. Just looked up "the crime". They were adjusting temperatures based on readings from reference stations. You know what, I've done that myself. Yes, I admit it. I calibrate my weather station thermometers against a higher grade thermometer - this is called calibration and it is what we all should be doing to ensure that we do not get drift.
I can see how some without experience with instrumentation may not understand periodic and corrective calibration is nothing unusual. Interesting enough my weather station comes with calibration instructions and calibration periods.

However, this still leaves the "elephant in the room" that every other country must be in cahoots with the USA.

Perhaps you have heard the story how Forrest Mimms III used his home made UV monitor to show that there was an error in the NIMBUS-7 satellite's sensor and it needed to be adjusted.It is easy to find all over the Internet.

One has to wonder how NOAA and NASA are faking their readings, but given all of the other weather stations about, not a single person have been able to track and expose show these "fake readings".

 

Offline Mattk

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2020, 06:41:31 AM »
Lets hope nobody tries to justify temperature data based on BOM interference, anything that originally represented valid actual data has been totally manipulated (apparently :)) to justify opinions based on a totally different set of so called facts  :oops:
Presumably, this has to be an on-going global conspiracy where all the USA's deadly enemies are in on it with them, but not telling.  :lol: :lol:

NASA and NOAA had to admit what they are doing, are you in denial?
Ah. Just looked up "the crime". They were adjusting temperatures based on readings from reference stations. You know what, I've done that myself. Yes, I admit it. I calibrate my weather station thermometers against a higher grade thermometer - this is called calibration and it is what we all should be doing to ensure that we do not get drift.
I can see how some without experience with instrumentation may not understand periodic and corrective calibration is nothing unusual. Interesting enough my weather station comes with calibration instructions and calibration periods.

However, this still leaves the "elephant in the room" that every other country must be in cahoots with the USA.

Perhaps you have heard the story how Forrest Mimms III used his home made UV monitor to show that there was an error in the NIMBUS-7 satellite's sensor and it needed to be adjusted.It is easy to find all over the Internet.

One has to wonder how NOAA and NASA are faking their readings, but given all of the other weather stations about, not a single person have been able to track and expose show these "fake readings".

You really are in denial aren't you, denial of how cooling trends magically turn into increasing temperatures to justify their existing and funding. Your credibility is now also done.

Offline Mattk

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2020, 06:51:43 AM »
And just to cover any further excuses those 1938 fires occurred on Jan 13, burnt 20,000sq km, 71 fatalities, 3500 homes destroyed, several towns totally obliterated and that was just in 1 day, then there was the 1926 fires 60 fatalities, then there was Ash Wednesday 75 fatalities, over 2500 homes destroyed, then there was .... ten of dozens other fires beginning in 1851, many more fatalities, many more homes destroyed .... so were they all your fabricated climate excuses as well? No, but every fire today apparently is trying to be blamed on so called climate change, oh how convenient, real climate scientists know the difference, others will continue to waffle on looking for excuses.

Australia has endured fires worse than the current, some people just don't have enough Australian background to admit it as it doesn't fit their own agenda.   
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 06:55:47 AM by Mattk »

Offline mark_adel_oz

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2020, 07:01:50 AM »
Lets hope nobody tries to justify temperature data based on BOM interference, anything that originally represented valid actual data has been totally manipulated (apparently :)) to justify opinions based on a totally different set of so called facts  :oops:
Presumably, this has to be an on-going global conspiracy where all the USA's deadly enemies are in on it with them, but not telling.  :lol: :lol:

NASA and NOAA had to admit what they are doing, are you in denial?
Just looked up the "crime". They altered the readings of a weather station to match that of a reference station. I worked in electronics all my working life - this is called "calibration".

One takes a sensor and compares it to a higher grade reference and determines the difference. It possible the difference is adjusted out to the limits of the device, if not, it is repaired and then calibrated. So, what does one do with the readings that have been recorded, knowing that there is a systematic difference in readings. (1) Ignore them because they are too small to worry about, (2) Flag that the readings are suspect due to a failure, or (3) find out how the difference manifests itself. In many cases, it is an offset error (always reads a fixed amount from the real reading), a scale error (the error will increase of decrease as the readings changes), or a combination of both.
Usually some simple maths figures out the calibration factor and it can be applied to the readings to get a more realist reading (within limits of time and error parameters).

Perhaps startling to you, my weather station has calibration adjustments in its program and it gives instruction how to do it and when to do it. Oh no!! I'm now part of the conspiracy \:D/

But, hey, let say that NOAA and NASA is faking it, but none of the thousands and thousands of other weather stations can detect, we are back to how come all the nations of the world are in on this with their enemies. There is an interesting story about a guy called Forrest Mimms III who used a home made instrument and detected an error in a sensor on NIMBUS-7. Yet, oddly, with thousands of other weather stations around the world, no one has been able to provide supportable numerical evidence of this global conspiracy.

Anyway, I don't think I'll bother with this conversation any more, because it just reminds me of trying to convince someone that the moon landing wasn't a fake and if it was the USSR, China, at other would have called exposed them to the world. It was an impossible task.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2020, 08:00:23 AM »
As far as altering field data I see bad data being fed into the climatological stream daily.  Hard to prove other than freezing rain events where we know what temperature ice forms, so here is the latest just a few weeks ago. 

This is the Miller Field ASOS KVTN.

Thankfully the airport ASOS also has a freezing rain sensor and doesn't just rely on temperature.

This airport ASOS is also a class 1 top priority climatological station and has been reading +2F going on 3 years now with many complaints but nothing ever gets done to fix. 

Oh yes, the local 2-Davis stations along with the radio station COOP instruments all reported freezing during this event.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 08:02:04 AM by ValentineWeather »
Randy

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2020, 08:09:43 AM »
Here is the full-screen capture so station identification shows.
Randy

Offline mark_adel_oz

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2020, 09:30:46 AM »
And just to cover any further excuses those 1938 fires occurred on Jan 13, burnt 20,000sq km, 71 fatalities, 3500 homes destroyed, several towns totally obliterated and that was just in 1 day, then there was the 1926 fires 60 fatalities, then there was Ash Wednesday 75 fatalities, over 2500 homes destroyed, then there was .... ten of dozens other fires beginning in 1851, many more fatalities, many more homes destroyed .... so were they all your fabricated climate excuses as well? No, but every fire today apparently is trying to be blamed on so called climate change, oh how convenient, real climate scientists know the difference, others will continue to waffle on looking for excuses.

Australia has endured fires worse than the current, some people just don't have enough Australian background to admit it as it doesn't fit their own agenda.   
Can't really argue with Ash Wednesday.

The only major fire around that 1938 time I know was Black Friday that was the 1938-39 summer, however fires actually started through December and burnt though January 1939, costing 36 lives on the 13th and a total of 71 deaths by the end of January. It doesn't seem to match the "and that was just in 1 day". Are you talking about a different fire?

If this is the fire, it not valid to compare its whole run with this one until it finishes its run as well.

I'm also not really sure that looking at the really old fires without more data is valid. My grandfather fought 1938 fires and he used pick & shovel, wet hessian sack, supported by a horse and cart. Hardly comparable with fire bombers, fire tenders, helicopters. To accurately compare fire strengths, the variables such as the fire equipment of the day needs to be taken out of the equation. I did some building fire-fighting training at Melbourne Fire Brigade and fought 3-story fires using a few different methods including the fog nozzle hoses. I can't imagine that there is any sense comparing a fire in 1851 or 1938 just based on the times the fires burnt, or what they couldn't defend given state of the fire-fighting tools and training in those eras - probably why they have fire scientists to deep dive these things.



Offline mark_adel_oz

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2020, 10:10:26 AM »
As far as altering field data I see bad data being fed into the climatological stream daily.  Hard to prove other than freezing rain events where we know what temperature ice forms, so here is the latest just a few weeks ago. 

This is the Miller Field ASOS KVTN.

Thankfully the airport ASOS also has a freezing rain sensor and doesn't just rely on temperature.

This airport ASOS is also a class 1 top priority climatological station and has been reading +2F going on 3 years now with many complaints but nothing ever gets done to fix. 

Oh yes, the local 2-Davis stations along with the radio station COOP instruments all reported freezing during this event.
Not being in the US, perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are saying.

The two ASOS stations are owned by one or other government department (according to Google). One is saying that there is freezing rain by a non-temperature sensor and the other station appears to read high contradicting the other freezing rain indications.

This international climate conspiracy is so clever that it can fake a whole world of meteorological data including from uber-hostile countries, but it cannot get two local sensors to match readings especially when people are making noises about obvious errors.

Sorry, a bridge too far.

Offline Mattk

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2020, 12:06:17 AM »
Any mention of trying to actually fight these fires be it with a potato bag or DC10 is rather meaningless as all the severe fires simply not fightable, same as the 2009 Black Saturday fires with 170+ fatalities, 4000+ homes/structures destroyed, 400 individual fires just in Victoria and the same old Ozzie scenario, heat wave, low humidity, high pressure system and was also affected by a tropical low in north-west WA which provided an increase in wind that blew a SWER line over resulting in the most deadliest firestorm ever experienced in Australia since at least 1788. Anybody who suggests this was so call climate change back in 2009 is kidding themselves big time, people an authorities had still not learnt anything after 150 years of fire history.

When the terms calibration and homogenization are used in the same sentence with an obvious intent to try and mean/justify something then it's obvious those people are way way out of their depth and have absolutely no meaning or understanding of what BOM, NASA & NOAA have been doing in attempting to justify their man made climate agenda.

Only this morning on the news another self proclaimed climate change believer came out of the woodwork and made the typical blurb that of course all these fires are due to something man has done and in the same sentence included "we" need more funding, these types are an absolute joke, it's all about them, all about "their" funding, funding to prove what? As if they knew as they state, then they would need any more funding, would they? Climate changers always their hand in the gov back pocket and the more they get the more they want.

I think what we will see from this time forward and with the number of climate whack's out they will have an excuse for just about everything, flooding is climate change, not flooding will be climate change, no matter if it rains or doesn't rain it will be climate change, cyclones will be climate change, no cyclones will be climate, power problems will be climate change, yet this climate change crap started against the coal sector and obviously a lot of the hypocrites don't understand even where their real power actually comes from and they are paying a premium for governments to support and subsidise renewables so as to be in good with the greens. Renewables are fine, just cut the subsidies and see how eager companies are to jump into renewables and the squeal that will follow             
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 12:10:42 AM by Mattk »

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2020, 12:45:31 AM »
I think you need to do more reading and research with a more open mind

Offline mark_adel_oz

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2020, 01:52:05 AM »
When the terms calibration and homogenization are used in the same sentence with an obvious intent to try and mean/justify something then it's obvious those people are way way out of their depth and have absolutely no meaning or understanding of what BOM, NASA & NOAA have been doing in attempting to justify their man made climate agenda.
Ok, Let's assume that these three organisations actually are faking the temperature. They must also be faking everything else, lest physics make it obvious that it has been faked. Pressure, temperature, RH, wind are all interrelated by fluid dynamics. This means that all the upper measurements must be altered as well to ensure that lapse rates and all that stuff appear physically correct.

Now, apart of the three organisations you claim are involved, there are many other meteorological companies that provide services to argriculture ( including high precision local mapping of temperature and wind for planning pesticide spraying, or suing whomever caused the overspray that killed their crops), there are the airlines who rely on meteorology to calculate things like the maximum take-off weight and how much fuel to carry, etc). There are also Universities that run their own weather observation networks including surface & upper-air measurements, radars and other atmospheric sampling schemes. Defence also has its finger in the pie because meteorology is crucial for all war-fighters.

Since these organisations aren't en mass presenting cases which show that the readings are wrong and refusing to use "fake" data, one has to imagine that they must be in cahoots with the original conspirators.

Since planes use temperature to calculate things like maximum take-off weight, it must be getting the "real" readings from somewhere or wasting fuel (money). Airports publish this information for pilots to use. This means that either they revert to "real" data, or the equations used for the calculations are also "fake". If the "fake" data is used with real equations, then we should see planes arriving with more fuel that is required for safety and costing the airlines mega-bucks. This means that they would have burnt unnecessary fuel carry this unneeded fuel. They must be using the "real" data which also means that they must be in on the conspiracy. So, the web of the conspiracy just in each country is now simply huge.

Now, as you know, all the meteorological data is shared around the world and plugged into various models. So either the "fake" readings or the "real" readings are exported. If the latter, then it must be done in secret, otherwise the discrepancies would be seen and seen to be increasing. If this is the case, then all of the other meteorological organisations must also be complicit in the conspiracy.

So, let's that every government meteorological organisation in the world isn't complicit. This means that they get the "fake" data and plug it into their models. The output would show discontinuities at the Oz and US boundaries where the "fake" observations end. The output of these models would show that except for these "heat islands" the world is cooling. The models do not, in fact, say that at all. So we are back to every  government meteorological organisation being complicit. Not only that that the complicity must spread to all the other Universities and private meteorological companies around the world.

So, let's run with all of the governments in the world knowing about this. The question is, given that that there are countries that hate the US with a passion - Iran being a good current example. The question must be asked, what are they getting out of it that would cause them to want to blow the US off the face of the planet, but not reveal that the BOM, NOAA and NASA are "faking it"?

So, we come down to (1) there is a conspiracy that needs to survive globally even with the most bitter hatred, or (2) there is no such conspiracy.

Such an implausible tale is not for me, but I'll leave you to believe that for unfathomable reasons this is only thing in the world that all governments can agree on doing, except perhaps fake moon landings as well.  ;)

Offline galfert

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2020, 02:19:17 AM »
Time to tone it down. Nobody is changing anyone else's mind. Believe what you want and have your own opinions without calling anyone whacks, deniers, or insinuate any idiocracy.
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Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2020, 05:06:55 AM »
Time to tone it down. Nobody is changing anyone else's mind. Believe what you want and have your own opinions without calling anyone whacks, deniers, or insinuate any idiocracy.

Thank you, I'm very toned down all I did is post some real fact data that it's clearly being manipulated in the field from one of the (FEW) cherry-picked sites they actually use.  I only wish they would use the 10,000's of stations even of our enemies (ROFL), unfortunately only the cherry-picked sites are being used for climate analyses.

Best I can figure this started locally because I pointed out in an email back in 2016 the maps being published of how warm it was across the upper midwest weren't jiving with the actual data from all rural stations. Specifically KVTN.

Soon after the +2F started at the local ASOS. The heat island stations have warmed as we all know but the rural stations just weren't adding up.



Anyway, you are absolutely right nobody is changing anyone's mind on the subject so I'm out of here and I didn't even mention the real reason behind all this globalism.   \:D/   
Randy

Offline Mattk

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2020, 05:51:17 AM »
This is obviously one subject some people just can't handle the facts re what is occurring and no amount of waffling on has ever justified the need in attempting to change history. Thankfully the history and the facts are well maintained by some who will continue to highlight the indefensible changes BOM continue to push without logic or reason.   

Offline Mattk

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2020, 05:53:43 AM »
I think you need to do more reading and research with a more open mind

How do you like your weather history, factual or homogenised?

Offline mark_adel_oz

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2020, 08:35:18 AM »
Thank you, I'm very toned down all I did is post some real fact data that it's clearly being manipulated in the field from one of the (FEW) cherry-picked sites they actually use.  I only wish they would use the 10,000's of stations even of our enemies (ROFL), unfortunately only the cherry-picked sites are being used for climate analyses.
The data did show an anomaly, but there appears to be nothing in the table that showed that "it's clearly being manipulated". Perhaps you have proof elsewhere that there has been manipulation, but it doesn't appear in that table. The table would look the same if the data has manipulated, or there was just a sensor error.

Someone said I should keep an open mind, so perhaps you can explain what in the table rules out error and makes manipulation clear as you indicated above?
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Offline mark_adel_oz

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2020, 11:46:23 AM »
Thank you, I'm very toned down all I did is post some real fact data that it's clearly being manipulated in the field from one of the (FEW) cherry-picked sites they actually use.  I only wish they would use the 10,000's of stations even of our enemies (ROFL), unfortunately only the cherry-picked sites are being used for climate analyses.
The data did show an anomaly, but there appears to be nothing in the table that showed that "it's clearly being manipulated". Perhaps you have proof elsewhere that there has been manipulation, but it doesn't appear in that table. The table would look the same if the data has manipulated, or there was just a sensor error.

Someone said I should keep an open mind, so perhaps you can explain what in the table rules out error and makes manipulation clear as you indicated above?
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Short and sweet, it's been going on for 3 years of bad data obvious only during freezing rain events. Other than that it's my own conclusion,  because of the timeline. I'm not trying to convince you of anything but I have facts on my side that can't be disputed.
Fair enough. That seems a rather long time for a discrepancy, and you are entitled to come to a conclusion. However, I think that others would also be in just as strong a position to dispute that the undisputed facts clearly show manipulation.

Not wanting to get into an argument, but if there is only discrepancy that can be only be noticed during freezing rain reporting (due to the different instrument types), do you know know enough about the location of the instruments to rule out siting problems? - heat banking and all that sort of stuff. This might be significant if they are located in different areas.

I live between two airports ( civil and military) only a few kms apart and I log their readings in my database and compare it to my own system which I (sort of) cal against a good physical thermometer. When its relatively still and stable, I usually get a good daytime temperature match given the separation (about 0.2C or less). RH% appears to be a near constant about 4% low when conditions are stable and the RH is low (10-15% or below).

Over time, a 3F offset should be at least partially detectable between what is reported and what is measured by any decent close-by local weather stations calibrated against a good thermometer. Not always practical, I know, because of weather variability and, at least here, quite a few home stations have siting issues such as heat banking from concrete paths & walls, plus the roof, raising the temperatures, especially at night.

Offline galfert

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2020, 01:21:42 PM »
This thread seems pointless at this point I'm about to lock it down.

It is not that debating for or against climate change is forbidden (because you can talk about it). It is that it needs to be done without cursing, or linking to cursing content, and without belittling the other side for having opposing views.

EDIT: It seems the post I edited has now been deleted by the poster.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 01:28:46 PM by galfert »
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Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2020, 01:28:45 PM »
Yes, my bad. Shouldn't have posted the video link with the rough language even if on topic.
A farmer from Downunder goes on a cursing rant and not appropriate if you want to view the video, youtube Paul Joseph Watson
"The Truth About the Australian Bushfires".  It does hit on a lot of key topics brought up here.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 02:04:19 PM by ValentineWeather »
Randy

Offline KenW

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2020, 05:53:05 PM »
I don't want to buy in to the 'arguments' in here, but coincidentally I've just seen a newsfeed article from the (Australian) ABC about bushfire misinformation.

Apparently there is a lot of misinformation about the bushfires on social media.
"inaccurate fire maps", and lies about fire causes being some.  A particularly bad source is Twitter #ArsonEmergency.
Twitter users misrepresenting a media report about police investigating fire source.  Police said lightning strikes, Twitter says firebugs.
Misquoting Australian police as having dismissed the link between the fires and climate change.
"An article posted by an American far-right figure went one step further, claiming left-wing ecoterrorists were responsible for lighting the blazes."

The news article rules out influence of 'bots', saying much of the misinformation is from people posting.  They include just enough real information to make the whole post look valid.

Beware false information.  In particular, stay away from the US far-right crazies with their conspiracy theories.

Offline CW2274

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2020, 06:19:32 PM »
Beware false information.  In particular, stay away from the US far-right crazies with their conspiracy theories.
:lol:

Offline Mattk

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2020, 06:20:53 PM »
There's certainly a lot of misinformation being perpetrated, many using these fires to try and align a connection for a lot of reasons but one thing is for sure when all the people that have been arrested appear in court the judge won't be calling climate change to the dock as arson is not caused by climate change. The worst of the worst are actual rural fire brigade members who have been charged with arson, these people are the low of the low       

Offline KenW

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2020, 06:25:42 PM »
I haven't read anywhere, that firebugs have been a significant source of bushfires in the current crop.

Offline Mattk

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Re: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2020, 06:38:26 PM »
The numbers indicate 183 have been charged over 200 bushfire related offences, 53 of these for ignoring total fire bans, 24 directly charged with deliberately lighting bushfires, no numbers available out of east Victoria at the moment, all the Qld sunshine coast fires were lit by teenagers, other Qld fires also lit by teenagers, currently an $11,000 fine for flicking a butt out the window plus enough points to loose your license basically on the spot, these may not be deliberate arsonists but they may as well be, a fire is a fire.