Topic: F105 Thunderchief

[Cienega32]

Not wanting to muddy up the 'Last flight' thread from wxtech, I'll post here a few F105 pics unrelated from that particular aircraft I have from different places. Also, for those who like air frame info: https://aerialvisuals.ca/AirframeIndex.php?Designer=Republic,FamilySN=51

I grew up (YoB 1953) on Long Island NY, a few miles south of Grummans in Hicksville/Bethpage & more miles than that west of Republic Fairchild in Farmingdale. Flights in & out of Grummans (E-2 Hawkeyes were common) was a normal thing in the 60s for us to see. I learned how to glaze window panes because of a few of them (BOOM!). It was great & later, in the late 70s I was working across from Grummans & heard & watched a lot of the F14s including a proof demo that they were not a danger in the area. Pilots kicked them in & went straight up. I had one of the observers stopped into our shop & was explaining it to us. It was a wild story. I have to admit, the Tomcat was (is) one of my favorites and it rivaled the F4 Phantom II for me.

The other thread about the Last Flight of the Thunderchief had me thinking back to the Air/Space Museums I've gone to so I dug a few pics up for fans of "The Thud"

 National Museum of the United States Air Force, Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio:
F-105D - 60-0504
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Not a very good shot but...
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 USS Alabama Battleship Memorial Park, Mobile, Alabama. This airframe is a YF-105B
F-105B - 54-0102
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 Frontiers of Flight Museum in Dallas, Texas
F-105D - 62-4346
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Specs (at Frontiers of Flight):
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[DaleReid]

Thank you for this.  I love aircraft and the late 40s through the 70s was the heyday of development and testing.

My absolute favorite plane is the F104, and I've seen one or two fly at EAA Oshkosh.  Very strange sound out of the engines sometimes.  Sort of a howl

I still don't see how the Thud flew, and with the small vertical stabilizer, how it had stability. 

Thanks for the personal history with these and the photos.  I'm glad they all didn't end up being shmushed and cut up.

[DaleReid]

Many of these on the airframe listing were in VietNam or other parts of the world.
Did they load them on an aircraft carrier and float them over, or was there some way they could be ferried overseas?  Many of these had pretty short range of flight, comparatively, with air to air refueling a challenge in the middle of the Pacific.

[CW2274]

My absolute favorite plane is the F104, and I've seen one or two fly at EAA Oshkosh. 

Out of all the countless airshows I've attended/worked, there's only a handful of aircraft I've not seen perform, and the Starfighter is one. Maybe one day.

[Vasco]

My absolute favorite plane is the F104, and I've seen one or two fly at EAA Oshkosh. 

Out of all the countless airshows I've attended/worked, there's only a handful of aircraft I've not seen perform, and the Starfighter is one. Maybe one day.

Ah, the Widowmaker. . . 

[CW2274]

I had forgotten that nickname. Tiny, thin wings attached to a jet engine, what could possibly go wrong. I'll bet minimum approach speed was at least 180 knts.

[Cienega32]

One sound that always impressed me was the P51 (another fav) in a dive. That "sound of round" high pitched whine always gives me a thrill.

There are so many that have just a "cool look" to them, it's really hard for me to choose favorites. That F-104 is one. Very cool look. My Wright-Pat adventure sadly had me watching my OLY C765 cam on it's last legs as far as focus, etc. A lot of poor pics that looked good on the cam screen at the time. Don't know if you've ever been there but it's definitely a 2 day exhibit. It is phenomenal.

My bad pic at Wright-Pat:
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Wright-Pat link to their F104C: https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/198067/lockheed-f-104c-starfighter/

[Cienega32]

Ah, the Widowmaker. . . 

From the Wiki stub:
"The Starfighter was marketed by Lockheed as the "missile with a man in it", and the press dubbed the F-104 the "Widowmaker" due to its high accident rate, but neither were used in service."

[CW2274]

Don't know if you've ever been there but it's definitely a 2 day exhibit. It is phenomenal.

My dad took me to Wright-Pat when I was eleven. My only visit. I'm sure it's changed many times over since then. Obviously a lifetime memory.

[Vasco]

I had forgotten that nickname.

Fighters are designed to be inherently unstable, so they react quicker to pilot input. If pilot input causes output outside the envelope, bad things can happen. . . Even today, with fly-by-wire.


My favourite quote comes from a gliding instructor, who was in RAF avionics. He told me his briefing from a Tornado pilot included the words: "If there is a problem you will hear me say "bale out" three times. . . the second two will be echoes."

[Vasco]

"The Starfighter was marketed by Lockheed as the "missile with a man in it", and the press dubbed the F-104 the "Widowmaker" due to its high accident rate, but neither were used in service."

Wikipedia again:


"The Starfighter eventually flew with fifteen air forces, but its poor safety record, especially in Luftwaffe service, brought it substantial criticism. The Germans lost 292 of 916 aircraft and 116 pilots from 1961 to 1989, its high accident rate earning it the nickname Witwenmacher ("widowmaker") from the German public"

[Cienega32]

"If there is a problem you will hear me say "bale out" three times. . . the second two will be echoes."

 

[Cienega32]

Don't know if you've ever been there but it's definitely a 2 day exhibit. It is phenomenal.

My dad took me to Wright-Pat when I was eleven. My only visit. I'm sure it's changed many times over since then. Obviously a lifetime memory.

I was there in 2011 & since then they added another pavilion to it and moved the Air Force One & X planes out of the hanger on the other side of the field.

When I went, I really wanted to see the AF1 exhibit but when I went to the sign-up desk, they told me it was full but check back in case any cancel. I got as far as BocksCar (Fat Man drop) and she came running up to tell me there was an opening! I jumped on it, of course. And while the overall exhibits of AF1s & X planes was excellent, the biggest thing for me was walking thru JFK's AF1 26000. I still remember that day, walking home from school & asking Mom "Should I put the flag out?". A sad day even for a 10 year old me. Anyway, on the way home after Wright-Pat, I stopped in Dallas & did the 6th floor. After 26000, it was a definite must-do.

It was a interesting road trip that started late & ended early but included a lot of history including the Jamestown, Yorktown, Williamsburg Triangle.

[DaleReid]

As far as F104s were concerned, if I recall a book I was reading about the history of the aircraft, the initial pilot ejection system shot the pilot out downwards, not upwards.  If you had to eject low to the ground, the pilot was essentially rocketed into the gravel.  That may be an apocryphal story but I recall from the book that the ejection had to be changed.  The other aircraft with questionable pilot-saving-equipment was a plane which had the engine air intake right over and behind the cockpit.  Ejection would have been dicey there, too.

I recall the two F104 privately held jet demo teams that had been flying a decade or more ago were painted a blue color.  I can only imagine the maintenance costs and the fuel burn to get from one air show to another.

The one that was at Oshkosh had an auction for a ride in it, and I recall it went for about $5000.  The guy got a ride out over Lake Michigan on the east side of Wisconsin, but I don't know if they went supersonic or not; would have been nice. 

Thank goodness for museums where one can walk around to see all these historic planes.  Wright Patterson is a national treasure.  I got to see much of it when you could still drive your private car over to the extension hanger where the Presidential planes were and some of the more interesting X stuff that hadn't been moved to the main display.  Now, as mentioned, the visitation is limited to the number a bus can carry over and certainly disappoints a lot of people wanting to see that area, too.

Thanks for the discussion and memories, folks.  I would never have exposure to others with this interest or history or exposure to things they had while serving in the military or support groups.

[CW2274]

Don't know if you've ever been there but it's definitely a 2 day exhibit. It is phenomenal.

My dad took me to Wright-Pat when I was eleven. My only visit. I'm sure it's changed many times over since then. Obviously a lifetime memory.

I was there in 2011 & since then they added another pavilion to it and moved the Air Force One & X planes out of the hanger on the other side of the field.

I drove from Tucson to northern Ohio this past summer for my 45th HS reunion, and now wished I had planned for the time as my route took me through Cincy. I had to push through, and my return trip took me down the east coast, so that nixed a visit as well. I may well take the trip again, so I will try to make the time. Ain't gettin' no younger.

[Cienega32]

I drove from Tucson to northern Ohio this past summer for my 45th HS reunion, [...] Ain't gettin' no younger.

That's funny. That 2011 road trip of mine was for my 40th HS reunion back on Long Island. I had a bunch of places mapped like the Smithsonians, the Cosmospere in Kansas & Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry but Time worked against me. Lost a couple of days before leaving and other little stuff along the way forced me home early. I had a plan to see as many (if not all, sooner or later) of the manned space capsules we have on display in the USA & I did knock off a bunch that trip but not nearly as many as planned & lost out on some fine Air & Space & Naval museums as a result.

"Ain't gettin' no younger" has taken control at this point & those good ol' road trips are a thing of the past now. I occasionally look at some of my old Streets & Trips planned trips with that "That would've been nice" reflect.

Grab 'em while you can. Time creeps up on you pretty quickly with some unpleasant, unplanned stops along the way.