Author Topic: Ok please explain  (Read 4602 times)

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Offline Beaudog

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Ok please explain
« on: August 15, 2013, 08:30:26 PM »
Ok I have worked with antennas for 60 years.   I don't understand the concept of building an antenna and then wrapping it in copper foil.       Why build an antenna and then put it inside of a faraday shield?

What am I missing?

Offline dfroula

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2013, 08:36:48 PM »
As the loop antenna/ferrite antenna is a magnetic antenna, the shield serves to eliminate the electrical field interference while allowing the magnetic component to pass. The gap in the shield prevents a shorted turn, which would otherwise shield from the magnetic component of the signal as well.

Don

Offline W3DRM

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2013, 12:35:41 AM »
The key is the material used for the shielding. If it were a ferrous material, I believe that would block or reduce the strength of the magnetic field while using copper or aluminum foil only minimizes the electrical fields developed. Not sure my terminology is correct on this. Been too long since electronics/engineering schools...

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Offline DanS

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2013, 05:09:38 AM »
Ok I have worked with antennas for 60 years.   I don't understand the concept of building an antenna and then wrapping it in copper foil.       Why build an antenna and then put it inside of a faraday shield?

What am I missing?

I was digging around on the Blitzortung site at their FAQ's and found their answer (look down in the "Lightning Detection" section) to a question about building your own antenna. Since they mention the interest in receiving the 3-300 kHz VLF spectrum I am confused with this shielding also. The shield will definitely help reduce outside interference in the 3-300 kHz VLF spectrum along with any other (desired) signals in that range.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 05:28:18 AM by DanS »

Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2013, 10:07:30 AM »
The Magnetic (H field) of the wave will still penetrate the non-ferrous shielding. The Electric (E field) will be diminished. Sort of like a polarizing light filter.
This minimizes electrostatic pickup, which is more unidirectional. In order to prevent the magnetic field from being "shorted out" the tube has a gap preventing a complete closed circuit.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 10:11:15 AM by Cutty Sark Sailor »
 


Offline miraculon

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2013, 08:43:02 PM »
This explanation on Wikipedia seems to be pretty good. It is for aluminum, but I believe copper is very similar.

I used thin copper tape for my ferrite rod (and loop) antennas. The frequency of interest is about 10KHz. This is where these systems are set up for, there is a LPF at 50KHz in the amplifier. So both sides of the argument are "right", there is attenuation, but at 10KHz it is about 8dB (for aluminum foil). The Blitzortung guys are saying that with the ~2K Ohm input resistance that the shielding might not be necessary.

Greg H.

Quote
Electromagnetic shielding

The shielding effectiveness of aluminium foil depends upon the type of incident field (electric, magnetic, or plane wave), the thickness of the foil, and the frequency (which determines the skin depth). Shielding effectiveness is usually broken down into a reflection loss (the energy bounces off the shield rather than penetrates it) and an absorption loss (the energy is dissipated within the shield).

Although aluminium is non-magnetic, it is a good conductor, so even a thin sheet reflects almost all of an incident electric wave. At frequencies less than 100 MHz, the electric field is attenuated by more than 80 decibels (dB) (only 10−8 = 0.00000001 of the energy gets through).[11]

Thin sheets of aluminium are not very effective at attenuating low-frequency magnetic fields. A refrigerator magnet will hold a sheet of aluminium foil to the refrigerator. The shielding effectiveness is dependent upon the skin depth. A field traveling through one skin depth will lose about 63 percent of its energy (it is attenuated to 1/e = 1/2.718... of its original energy). Thin shields also have internal reflections that reduce the shielding effectiveness.[12] For effective shielding from a magnetic field, the shield should be several skin depths thick. Aluminium foil is about 1 mil (25 µm); a thickness of 10 mils (250 µm) (ten times thicker) offers less than 1 dB of shielding at 1 kHz, about 8 dB at 10 kHz, and about 25 dB at 100 kHz.


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Offline W3DRM

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2013, 04:23:03 PM »
This explanation on Wikipedia seems to be pretty good. It is for aluminum, but I believe copper is very similar.

I used thin copper tape for my ferrite rod (and loop) antennas. The frequency of interest is about 10KHz. This is where these systems are set up for, there is a LPF at 50KHz in the amplifier. So both sides of the argument are "right", there is attenuation, but at 10KHz it is about 8dB (for aluminum foil). The Blitzortung guys are saying that with the ~2K Ohm input resistance that the shielding might not be necessary.

Greg H.

Quote
Electromagnetic shielding

The shielding effectiveness of aluminium foil depends upon the type of incident field (electric, magnetic, or plane wave), the thickness of the foil, and the frequency (which determines the skin depth). Shielding effectiveness is usually broken down into a reflection loss (the energy bounces off the shield rather than penetrates it) and an absorption loss (the energy is dissipated within the shield).

Although aluminium is non-magnetic, it is a good conductor, so even a thin sheet reflects almost all of an incident electric wave. At frequencies less than 100 MHz, the electric field is attenuated by more than 80 decibels (dB) (only 10−8 = 0.00000001 of the energy gets through).[11]

Thin sheets of aluminium are not very effective at attenuating low-frequency magnetic fields. A refrigerator magnet will hold a sheet of aluminium foil to the refrigerator. The shielding effectiveness is dependent upon the skin depth. A field traveling through one skin depth will lose about 63 percent of its energy (it is attenuated to 1/e = 1/2.718... of its original energy). Thin shields also have internal reflections that reduce the shielding effectiveness.[12] For effective shielding from a magnetic field, the shield should be several skin depths thick. Aluminium foil is about 1 mil (25 µm); a thickness of 10 mils (250 µm) (ten times thicker) offers less than 1 dB of shielding at 1 kHz, about 8 dB at 10 kHz, and about 25 dB at 100 kHz.

Huh? What does a refrigerator magnet have to do with the subject??? This is what I love about wikis. Often very misleading or inaccurate information is posted...

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Offline miraculon

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2013, 04:39:04 PM »
I think that the point that they were trying to make was that if the shield was effective, no magnetic field would pass through it. Hence, it would not stick to the steel (we hope) refrigerator.

Greg H.



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Offline W3DRM

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2013, 05:48:26 PM »
I think that the point that they were trying to make was that if the shield was effective, no magnetic field would pass through it. Hence, it would not stick to the steel (we hope) refrigerator.

Greg H.

Ahh, I see your point. I didn't see it that way when I first read it. If the magnetic field didn't pass through the aluminum then it would fall to the floor...  ](*,)

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Offline dfroula

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2013, 02:14:58 PM »
I thought this was a rather good explanation, found on the web at http://www.broadcasttechnical.com/articles/23mysteriesoftheshieldedloop.htm:

"MYSTERIES OF THE SHIELDED LOOP REVEALED!

There’s a variety of antennas that you can use for AM reception at the studio: many engineers have used a whip antenna, usually mounted on a ground plane.  I’ve seen automobile antennas used in this way.  Some favour a longwire antenna, but I’ve always preferred the shielded loop.  It’s easy and inexpensive to make one, and although they’re not particularly sensitive, their unique noise- and interference-cancelling properties mean they can give surprisingly good performance in difficult situations.  How come?  As a matter of fact, once you start to look more closely, many people start to wonder how come they work at all!  This month I’ll try to explain their secrets.

The first question many have runs thus: if the doggone antenna is shielded, how does it pick up a signal at all?  The answer is surprisingly simple: our desired RF signal consists of electromagnetic waves, which have an electric and a magnetic component.  We shield the electrostatic component only—and pick up the magnetic wave.  Any grounded conductor can be used as a shield against the electric wave—if we had wished to shield the magnetic component, we’d have to use a magnetic material, such as iron, steel, nickel or even mu-metal.  And sure enough, if we use a piece of steel electrical conduit for our shield, we won’t get much of a signal.  Copper, on the other hand, makes an excellent electrostatic shield, without affecting the magnetic field, so that’s what we’ll use today.

One aspect of that shield that's bound to confuse is that there must be a break in the loop--otherwise the windings inside will effectively couple to a shorted turn, and you'll get little or no signal coming out.  The shield must be connected to ground or it will be effectively invisible, and will provide no shielding action at all.  Depending on the details of construction, it may be desirable to switch the ground connection to the shield on and off, allowing the antenna to serve as a shielded or unshielded loop.

Since, in its shielded form, the loop is picking up only half of the electromagnetic wave, that explains why its sensitivity is a bit low.  The surprise is that the received noise is usually attenuated even more, and that’s because most electrical noise is electrostatic in nature.  An added bonus is that the rejection nodes of a well-constructed shielded loop are very deep—perhaps –25dB!  (Incidentally, this explains why the shielded loop is so often used in radio direction finders.)  Often, when we’re faced with a situation involving nighttime interference, we can benefit by forgetting about peaking the desired signal, and instead concentrating on nulling out the interfering ones.

If you need more sensitivity, you can resonate the loop by experimentally applying a small tuning capacitor--no more than 500 pF or so--in series with the loop.  You’ll know when you reach the right value—the output level peaks up quite sharply.  One precaution with this arrangement, though: it is quite easy to achieve a loaded Q high enough to lop off the sidebands, which will result in a loss of high-frequency modulation content, and distortion there too.

Received signal strength is more or less in proportion to size: twice the size, twice the signal.  The optimum number of turns to use is counterintuitive—more turns does not equal more signal.  As a matter of fact, signal strength drops off pretty quickly past the optimum number.  This is because we're typically trying to match into a receiver front end that has a fairly low impedance--say 50 to 100 ohms.  More than a handful of turns results in a high impedance device, and leakage capacitance to the shield starts to become significant, too.  Flatter results across the broadcast band can be achieved by using three turns or so in the body of the loop, and connecting a balun—a balanced-to-unbalanced transformer—at the output of the antenna.  This improves the impedance match and balance, because if you look at it carefully, you’ll see that the loop itself is essentially a balanced circuit.  By inserting the balun, you’re providing the right type of balanced load for this antenna.  Ten turns or so on the ferrite toroid of your choice, bifilar-wound, makes a very nice, compact, self-shielding balun.


So there you have it: the shielded loop, unplugged!

Offline DanS

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2013, 07:16:07 PM »
I thought this was a rather good explanation, found on the web at http://www.broadcasttechnical.com/articles/23mysteriesoftheshieldedloop.htm:

"MYSTERIES OF THE SHIELDED LOOP REVEALED .....

         ...So there you have it: the shielded loop, unplugged!

Thanks, good find.

Offline dfroula

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2013, 12:28:49 PM »
I think the confusion comes from the reaction of a shielded loop to the two very different fields that are generated by an RF source, the inductive field and the radiation field.

The radiation field is the RF field generated by an RF source that can be received at a great distance, as in all radio systems (the so-called "far-field"). It follows the inverse square law, meaning that the field weakens as the inverse of the square of the distance between the source and the antenna.

A shielded loop responds equally to both the in-phase magnetic and electrical components of a radiation wave.The shield (with a proper gap opposite the ground point) couples a current on the outer surface of the shield to the inner surface of the shield in response to an radiation wave, which is then magnetically coupled (like a transformer) to the windings inside the shield. The gap in the shield is the feed point of the antenna where the RF currents on the outer surface of the shield enter and flow on the inner surface and wire loop of the antenna. If no gap in the shield were present, no current would be developed on the inner surface of the shield and therefore no signal would be coupled to the inside windings. With the gap, the current flowing on the outside of the shield, the inside of the shield and the wire loop are all equal. The shield IS the antenna. Without the gap, neither the magnetic nor electric components of a radiation RF field can penetrate the shield.

The noise rejection of a shielded loop to undesirable distant radiated RF waves comes from the sharp null that the loop exhibits, which allows it to reject signals from a certain direction. There is also some benefit from the polarization of the radiation source. The shielded loop will be less sensitive to cross-polarized signals like any antenna.

If a shielded loop filtered the electrical component of a radiation wave (not possible, as they are intrinsically linked - one cannot exist without the other), no distant signal could be received, including our "noise" of interest....radiation waves generated by lightning.

An inductive field is the RF field generated by an RF source that is local in its effects and diminishes rapidly with distance (the so-called "near-field"). The inductive field effects typically extend only to 1/10 of a wavelength from the RF source. Induction fields do not follow the inverse square law. Rather, the inductive RF field diminishes as the cube of the distance from the source. The magnetic and electric fields of an inductive field are out of phase.

The electric field component of an inductive field from a noise source (like house wiring) tries to induce extraneous currents on the shield due to capacitive coupling. These time varying "electrostatic" charges can be diminished by the shield, just as the static electric charge accumulated after shuffling your feet on a carpet can be discharged by touching a grounded object.

The shielded loop diminishes the capacitively-coupled electrostatic component of the induction field generated by nearby noise sources, like power lines. The electric (and magnetic) field of distant RF radiation sources is unaffected.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 11:01:38 AM by dfroula »

Offline SLOweather

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 11:18:57 AM »
Ok, I've read this thread and I'm considering getting a Red board kit.

I've been running a Boltek since at least June 2001 (first an ISA board, now a PCI). Boltek is very clear about keeping the antenna away from metal, so I went to a lot of trouble to build a mast mounted weatherproof enclosure which I put about 10' above a gable end of our aluminum shingle roof.

Now I see that the Blitzortung antennas are shielded with aluminum or copper tape to reduce interference.

So, my question is, would I get decent performance by mounting the antennas (whichever style I decide to build) up in the attic, under the aluminum shingles, rather than outdoors??

Offline miraculon

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2013, 11:58:44 AM »
I'll defer to dfroula on this one, but I suspect that you might be in for standing waves and all kind of reflection problems.
The shielded antennas are much closer to the coil windings than the aluminum shingles would be. I think that I would be worried about this.

Greg H.



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Offline Weather Display

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2013, 04:30:40 PM »
the blitzotung system works so well, it will work on your kitchen bench no trouble at all (ie even the aerial there), LOL
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Offline dfroula

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Re: Ok please explain
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2013, 01:43:38 PM »
I updated some of my comments on shielded loop/ferrite antennas, above.

Best,

Don