Author Topic: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?  (Read 47144 times)

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Offline johnd

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #75 on: November 28, 2012, 01:07:54 PM »
I already threw away the packaging.

Yes, I know.  :???:

There are more detailed answers and I'm sure it's not a state secret, but it's really up to Davis to make a public announcement rather than anyone else. Perhaps if someone were to ask the question of Davis support and post the answer back here... ?
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Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
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Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline Weather Display

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #76 on: November 28, 2012, 01:24:32 PM »
is the Sloweather logger also affected?
(shame if it is, especialy just after that was mentioned in the latest Davis newsletter)
?
Brian
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Offline SlowModem

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #77 on: November 28, 2012, 01:36:08 PM »
is the Sloweather logger also affected?
(shame if it is, especialy just after that was mentioned in the latest Davis newsletter)
?

The bottom line:

What's going to have to happen is that someone with a new console is going to have to obtain one of the WXForum loggers and see if it works.

Greg Whitehead
Ten Mile, TN USA

Offline d_l

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #78 on: November 28, 2012, 01:56:19 PM »
John, I'm pretty sure I recall a green, stick-on dot on the packaging of a WLIP I bought about 13 months ago.  I thought it was odd at the time and that it might have been added by my Davis dealer.

Just how long have the green dot loggers been available?
--Dave--

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Offline Weather Display

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #79 on: November 28, 2012, 02:17:58 PM »
John did mention about a year now, further up this thread...
Brian
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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #80 on: November 28, 2012, 03:18:16 PM »
Perhaps if someone were to ask the question of Davis support and post the answer back here... ?

Question sent.

Offline Sigdigit

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #81 on: December 01, 2012, 05:46:21 PM »
Davis is going to spend all the money they make producing proprietary BS to revamp the obsolete Weatherlink software, right? hahahahahahhahahah!!!!!!!  Only place in the world where you can still get a job being a Fortran progammer, right?  Actually that is far to kind.  Don't they program in Basic? :twisted:  Their program graphics resemble something I programmed myself on my Apple II.

Offline Old Tele man

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #82 on: December 01, 2012, 06:09:50 PM »
Davis is going to spend all the money they make producing proprietary BS to revamp the obsolete Weatherlink software, right? hahahahahahhahahah!!!!!!!  Only place in the world where you can still get a job being a Fortran progammer, right?  Actually that is far to kind.  Don't they program in Basic? :twisted:  Their program graphics resemble something I programmed myself on my Apple II.
...yeah, I got "Eric" pissed when I said the WeatherLink-USB graphics looked like something from the early days of DOS and CGA graphics...maybe that's *why* my e-mails to them have since been ignored?!?
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Offline Sigdigit

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #83 on: December 01, 2012, 06:20:32 PM »
Hahhh!!!  Probably.  I certainly wouldn't want to take credit for those primitive displays!  CGA, lol.  That takes me back.

Offline docbee

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #84 on: December 01, 2012, 06:59:50 PM »
I also don't have the packaging of a WLIP logger I bought about a year ago to check if it has a green dot on it.  :?

When I put the pieces together I do see we have:
- a company selling overpriced commonditiy interfaces
- a third party replacement product shows up (about a year ago)
- short time later loggers from the company have green sticker on them
- now the company secretly launches consoles with new firmware that
  requires green dotted loggers
- downgrade to previous firmware seems not possible
- the company does not communicate in any way with their customers on
  all this.
- customers find out themself that things are no more working as expected
  and the company keep them guessing if their previous hw invest is trashed.

Umbelievable! Or to say it with Monty Pythons: 10.000 tons
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Offline Bushman

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #85 on: December 01, 2012, 07:25:45 PM »
Davis is going to spend all the money they make producing proprietary BS to revamp the obsolete Weatherlink software, right? hahahahahahhahahah!!!!!!!  Only place in the world where you can still get a job being a Fortran progammer, right?  Actually that is far to kind.  Don't they program in Basic? :twisted:  Their program graphics resemble something I programmed myself on my Apple II.

You would be shocked to learn how much FORTRAN is still being used.  Biomedical software, oil exploration software, etc. That said, WL _is_ lame.  And while I'm at it, why is it that SQL backends are so few and far between on weather stuff?
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Offline d_l

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #86 on: December 01, 2012, 07:55:01 PM »
As far as I can determine, the green dot loggers appeared before the first "home brew" logger hardware was offered for sale here; however, not before DeKay had described a method to access the output from the consoles. 

So the green dot loggerss are not a direct response to the appearance of competing hardware.
--Dave--

Wireless VP2 w/ solar, 24hr FARS, Heater, (Envoy-WLIP)*3-Meteohub, plus custom VP2 @ 26', WL 6.0.4, WU & W4U=KNVRENO37 NetcamXL

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Offline belfryboy

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #87 on: December 02, 2012, 02:07:36 AM »
And if y'all remember a good few years ago bluewave had already released a third party logger. Although Davis dealt with that a little differently, maybe because unlicensed software was also being sold.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 04:52:45 AM by belfryboy »

Offline johnd

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #88 on: December 02, 2012, 04:06:58 AM »
- the company does not communicate in any way with their customers on
  all this.

Dealers can tell you immediately if a particular logger is compatible - just needs the Mfg Code. Boris, PM me if you need to know about an individual unit.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline DeKay

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #89 on: December 02, 2012, 10:49:19 AM »
And if y'all remember a good few years ago bluewave had already released a third party logger. Although Davis dealt with that a little differently, maybe because unlicensed software was also being sold.

Funny, coming from a company offering a download of Hyperterminal from their site that I suspect they are not licensed to do.

Offline Bushman

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #90 on: December 02, 2012, 11:19:29 AM »
That is pretty rich, eh?  :)  I am sure Hilgreave - the owners of that software need to learn about that!
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Offline miraculon

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #91 on: December 02, 2012, 03:35:20 PM »
I have a WLIP with the box with the following code:

11-09 11V5.9.3 on the box top. There is a green dot to the right of it.

I don't know if this means November of last year or '09. I bought it this past January, so I suspect that it was from Nov. '11.

Greg H.


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Offline miraculon

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #92 on: December 02, 2012, 03:47:12 PM »
In the Davis "Serial Communication Reference Manual" there is a mention on page 38 (last entry in the table for EEPROM configuration settings) about a CRC for a password.

They mention protection from "unauthorized access" and that it is enforced by "software implementation".

I wonder if they recently began enforcing this password protection somehow...

Since it is in the E2 it would follow that plain UART/RS232 dongles wouldn't work if they started using this password in the console FW.

Greg H.


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WU: KMIROGER7
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Offline DeKay

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #93 on: December 02, 2012, 04:52:10 PM »
In the Davis "Serial Communication Reference Manual" there is a mention on page 38 (last entry in the table for EEPROM configuration settings) about a CRC for a password.

They mention protection from "unauthorized access" and that it is enforced by "software implementation".

I wonder if they recently began enforcing this password protection somehow...

Since it is in the E2 it would follow that plain UART/RS232 dongles wouldn't work if they started using this password in the console FW.

Greg H.

Nice find, but I don't think it fully explains why they seem to be making new dongles now.  The old dongles were simply a pass-through level converter.  As you can see from the serial protocol docs, there are already commands to read and write to the EEPROM.

It could be that they are actually putting some password in the the new logger's flash.  The console detects the logger on startup, checks the password written into the flash, and only talks on its remote port if the password is set.

Finding a workout would not be difficult if this were the case.  Another forum member is already using an Arduino to sniff the SPI bus that the console uses to talk to the logger's flash.  Write that same magic value to a clone flash chip and you're done.  Then stand back and watch as a new cottage industry develops that retrofits old loggers into green dot loggers.

Someone with a new green dot serial logger and upgraded firmware on their console could also use a serial port sniffing program like this one to look for any suspicious commands going back and forth between the computer and the console.

I suspect that without a significant hardware redesign, Davis is very limited in what they can do to thwart this kind of reverse engineering.

Offline rdsman

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #94 on: December 02, 2012, 05:13:25 PM »
I just placed an order for a Davis USB logger.  I'll be "sniffing" the real thing shortly!

Ray

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #95 on: December 02, 2012, 08:24:35 PM »
I just placed an order for a Davis USB logger.  I'll be "sniffing" the real thing shortly!



Just out of curiosity - how do you sniff the communication between the logger and the console?

Offline Old Tele man

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #96 on: December 02, 2012, 09:27:56 PM »
...we used a HP "Parallel Bus Analyzer" machine, a 8/16/32/64-bit parallel capture scope with memory.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 08:54:08 AM by Old Tele man »
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Offline C5250

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #97 on: December 02, 2012, 11:12:42 PM »
Just out of curiosity - how do you sniff the communication between the logger and the console?

Because Windows emulates serial ports, that is actually quite easy; take your pick: serial port monitors Back in the "DOS" days, it would have required hardware.
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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #98 on: December 02, 2012, 11:38:14 PM »
Just out of curiosity - how do you sniff the communication between the logger and the console?

Because Windows emulates serial ports, that is actually quite easy; take your pick: serial port monitors Back in the "DOS" days, it would have required hardware.


Sorry I wasn't clear.  My question was intended to be how is the "sniffing" connection (the physical connection) made, between the multiple-pin connector inside the console, and the logger?

...or how is the physical connection made, at the connector-pair?

I can think of various ways to do that, but I'm curious as to what is being used by rdsman.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 11:43:43 PM by dalecoy »

Offline rdsman

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Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
« Reply #99 on: December 03, 2012, 06:59:09 AM »
I have several different Protocol Analyzers available.  The first thing that I will do is a memory dump of the logger before it is attached to the console.  I will then connect in parallel to the SPI interface going to the logger and record what happens during the Power Up sequence.  This is as far as I have thought this through for now.
Ray

 

anything