Topic: GW1003, how can i get the heater cable by USB?

[yamvmax]

According to the manual, the original intention is that the heater is powered by USB cable with USB adapter.

I guess they changed the design to offer a fully waterproof solution with a super premium price.

I just purchased the HP2553 station that includes the WS80 and I kinda wish I had stumbled across this thread beforehand; checking Ecowitt's site, I see the power supply is $41 USD  I guess I didn't pay close enough attention; was under the impression that any 5V 2A USB adapter would power it. May have to do some jimmy-riggin'

How are you doing the power switching?
Presumably you have something to tell the powerbank to deliver power to the heater when its sub zero or are you heating permanently?

I just took a look in the user manual and I saw this quote:

"There’s a built-in thermostat inside the anemometer sensor to control the power supply for the heat plate, which will automatically turn on below 0°C (30°F) and automatically turn off above 10°C (50°F)."

Is this true? I thought this was something they were considering adding but had not read anywhere they actually did. Would be sweet if true.

Honestly? I would just cut the end of connecter off, solder a long enough wire for you needs, heat shrink the connection for water protection. And use any 5v usb power source.

[Quagmire]

Honestly? I would just cut the end of connecter off, solder a long enough wire for you needs, heat shrink the connection for water protection. And use any 5v usb power source.

That's certainly what I'd do if the warranty or return period had expired but on a new piece of equipment, I'll probably go with a slightly less permanent route. I'm gonna order the cable member ytwytw linked to earlier in the thread and then splice that onto a 5V 2A power supply I have laying around. But ya, we're on the same track I guess.

[speerwerfer]

I asked ECOWITT via email whether there are different hardware versions of the sensor. When I have an answer, I'll get back to you.

Martin

The answer:

Hi Martin,

Thanks for contacting.
Sorry for the confusion.
The WS80 manual was not updated yet and we just updated the latest version on our website.

There’s a built-in thermostat inside the
anemometer sensor to control the power
supply for the heat plate, which will
automatically turn on below 0℃ (30℉ ) and
automatically turn off above 10℃ (50℉ ).

Any other question, please let us know.

Best Regards,
Lucy

[solartempest]

Honestly? I would just cut the end of connecter off, solder a long enough wire for you needs, heat shrink the connection for water protection. And use any 5v usb power source.

I think the convenience of a quick connector is the key here, since most people would have their WS80 installed quite high in the air and the heater cable would be semi-permanently supported along the entire run. Makes for easier maintenance.

If you use heatshrink, just make sure it's UV resistant polyolefin (such as XLPO dual wall) with adhesive inside to give a good seal against the elements. I think I remember the wire size is 22AWG and probably coated copper, so some care should taken if soldering. A simple insulated butt splice would be robust but bigger.

To protect a modified indoor USB power supply, probably an IP55 waterproof electrical box would be decent enough for the extension cord along an in-use receptacle cover, depending where the receptacle is located. GFCI highly recommended.


Thanks speerwerfer for finding out that the heater plate is thermostatically controlled! That does make it much easier.

[Quagmire]

So I rigged up a USB extension cable to power the WS80's heater plate and I can confirm that it is indeed thermostatically controlled; it turned on at 0 and then turned off at 8.5 degrees. Not sure how it's supposed to melt anything though, it draws a whopping 410mA of current.

[davidmc36]

If it comes on right at zero and runs to above then there should never have anything build up on it.

My take is to call it Anti-Icing device rather than De-Icing.

[Mapantz]

If it comes on right at zero and runs to above then there should never have anything build up on it.

My take is to call it Anti-Icing device rather than De-Icing.

But..... Ice can build up on surfaces even when the air temperature is above zero. Many times in the past month the lids on my recycle bins have had frost/ice build up when the air temp was at 2°C

If the anemometer's surface was to get frost/ice build up with an air temp above zero, it wouldn't do anything until it measured a temp of zero. If that were to occur, it would be 'de-icing'

[yamvmax]

If it comes on right at zero and runs to above then there should never have anything build up on it.

My take is to call it Anti-Icing device rather than De-Icing.

But..... Ice can build up on surfaces even when the air temperature is above zero. Many times in the past month the lids on my recycle bins have had frost/ice build up when the air temp was at 2°C

If the anemometer's surface was to get frost/ice build up with an air temp above zero, it wouldn't do anything until it measured a temp of zero. If that were to occur, it would be 'de-icing'

Very true

[davidmc36]

And how much could you get above zero? That wee bit of frost.......take mini power to deal with.

[Quagmire]

If it comes on right at zero and runs to above then there should never have anything build up on it.

My take is to call it Anti-Icing device rather than De-Icing.

I suppose. Unfortunately, our storms in the winter are mostly Nor-Easters and usually go down something like this: -10 to plus 6 back to -18 in less than 24 hours. Precip starts as snow, then transitions to ice pellets, then freezing rain and then rain as the low approaches. As soon as the low passes, it quickly (and I mean quickly) changes from rain, back into freezing rain, then ice pellets and finally snow as the mercury plummets. You can imagine the crusty mess that ensues. Essentially, if you haven't cleaned everything off that you need clear, you may as well count on it being out of commission until spring.

So that's why I opted for the WS80 with its built-in heating element vs the WS68. I was assuming it would be close to 10W based on the power supply Ecowitt sells but it turns out it's only around 2W.

Anyway, I shouldn't discount the little guy just yet; maybe 2W is indeed all that's required and it will perform admirably. I'll post updates for sure.

[wardie]

Well... the text on the WS80 product page at Ecowitt.com says
“There’s a built-in heat plate in the 6-in-1 sensor package body, if the lowest temperature at your place is below -3°C, or 26.6°F, and the weather is mostly snowy or rainy, then you may need to activate the heater by supplying a 5V/1A power to the sensor heating element for melting accumulated snow or ice, which can influence wind measurement accuracy significantly.” Mine’s been working fine over the last couple of days since I got it back with a little bit of frost and ice on it (no heater yet).

And the EC0002 power cable just says “To power the WS80/HP2553/GW1003 Ultrasonic Anemometer built-in heater to melt snow/ice in winter, so that you can get more accurate wind data.”

So I guess they haven’t disclosed what it will work down to temp-wise (i.e. keep the WS80 within operating parameters). I’ll see how it goes when I get my cable (maybe next week) but living where I do it’s less extreme (leafy South East England shires) so like -4C over recent nights is pretty cold here relatively. Let’s hope (?) for some very cold weather... There is some talk of another “Beast from the East” hitting the UK soon...

[Jai Soone]

Be careful in using long DC power cable runs. Low power DC cable runs have significantly greater power loss than AC runs have.  While ecowitt sells 10m and 20m versions of the outdoor power supply (i.e., EC0001 and EC0002), Ambient Weather only sells the 65' (i.e. 20m) version. For minimum power loss, one might want to run AC power to the base of the mounting pole being used and only run dc power up the pole. Ambient Weather sells an AMBCAM-COVER cover that could be used to weatherize the outdoor end  of an AC extension cable. Interestingly, I first became aware of the existence of the AMBCAM-COVER as part of an "You Might also be interested" section appended to information about the WS-5000 that also included the WS-5000-HEATER-AC. Currently Ambient Weather no longer makes this direct association. If one goes the splice your own DC power cable onto the end of the power brick route, use smaller gauge wire to minimize power loss.

[Quagmire]

Be careful in using long DC power cable runs. Low power DC cable runs have significantly greater power loss than AC runs have.  While ecowitt sells 10m and 20m versions of the outdoor power supply (i.e., EC0001 and EC0002), Ambient Weather only sells the 65' (i.e. 20m) version. For minimum power loss, one might want to run AC power to the base of the mounting pole being used and only run dc power up the pole.

Absolutely. Using an online calculator, it looks like 20M of 22 AWG cable will result in a voltage drop of 0.85V, so 4.15V at the end of the run. That's close to 17% loss, which is way to high IMO.

[solartempest]

Be careful in using long DC power cable runs. Low power DC cable runs have significantly greater power loss than AC runs have.

Just to clarify, single phase AC and DC have the same voltage drop factors (as compared to three phase AC having significant voltage drop advantage). In this case, the DC is only 5V and AC is 120V which is why a longer 120VAC run is better than a long 5VDC run.

For minimum power loss, one might want to run AC power to the base of the mounting pole being used and only run dc power up the pole.

Yes, agreed that this is a much better option!

If one goes the splice your own DC power cable onto the end of the power brick route, use smaller gauge wire to minimize power loss.

This should read as using a larger gauge wire to minimize voltage drop. So if the original size is 22AWG and a longer length is needed, then something like 16AWG may get you to 30M.

Absolutely. Using an online calculator, it looks like 20M of 22 AWG cable will result in a voltage drop of 0.85V, so 4.15V at the end of the run. That's close to 17% loss, which is way to high IMO.

I agree that 17% voltage drop is way too high. Can't tell from the print in the Ecowitt photo, but to me the wire size does look a bit bigger than the very short length on the WS80. If it's 18AWG then the drop is almost 7% which is reasonable.

[wardie]

Well... obviously I don’t have it yet, but I would have thought that if they sell it at those lengths, they work to power the WS80 sufficiently and they will have tested it...

[galfert]

Be careful in using long DC power cable runs. Low power DC cable runs have significantly greater power loss than AC runs have.  While ecowitt sells 10m and 20m versions of the outdoor power supply (i.e., EC0001 and EC0002), Ambient Weather only sells the 65' (i.e. 20m) version. For minimum power loss, one might want to run AC power to the base of the mounting pole being used and only run dc power up the pole.

Absolutely. Using an online calculator, it looks like 20M of 22 AWG cable will result in a voltage drop of 0.85V, so 4.15V at the end of the run. That's close to 17% loss, which is way to high IMO.

That is why Edison lost to Tesla.
Recommended movie: The Current War (2017)

[Jai Soone]

Well, in AWG (American Wire Gauge), which is what I'm familiar with, increasing gauge numbers denote decreasing wire diameters. Maybe other wire gauge systems don't have this inverse relationship.

[Jai Soone]

E = I*R as I remember, and P = V*I. Thus to transmit a given amount of power, losses are less if one uses higher voltage and less current. With modern power electronics, one can run small transformers at 10k Hz and use diodes to convert it to high voltage DC current and transmit power more efficiently than high voltage AC transmission systems currently in use. I forget what the crossover distance is, but at greater distances DC can be more efficient.

[solartempest]

Well, in AWG (American Wire Gauge), which is what I'm familiar with, increasing gauge numbers denote decreasing wire diameters. Maybe other wire gauge systems don't have this inverse relationship.

It's really just semantics. AWG is pretty much the industry standard, even in Canada where we are metric and should use mm^2. When specifying and purchasing wire, we would always say a "bigger" wire size than 22AWG would be 1AWG, rather than 28AWG.

I actually am working with very large rectifiers using high power electronics. We convert 13.8kVAC to DC with very high current but the purpose is not for transmission. They are using HVDC for transmission here in Canada - the infrastructure is very expensive but also comes with many advantages. In the places I work, we normally just use 230kVAC.

Well... obviously I don’t have it yet, but I would have thought that if they sell it at those lengths, they work to power the WS80 sufficiently and they will have tested it...

For sure Ecowitt's works. I just dread having to deal with DHL on shipping to Canada! They always seem to charge these outrageous customs handling fees.

[wardie]

Count yourself lucky you’ve not had to deal with Brexit UK/EU customs then! (See other thread)! Yes I’m awaiting a holding customs tax bill, plus admin fees plus admin fees on the admin fees etc. For zero real world effort. Anyway yes, I’m sure it will just work, if I can rig it up with a power meter I will do, but that will only tell me the mains end of course.

Des anyone know if the WS80 -> GW1000 / HP2551-C emits any state info about the heater status? Doubt it.

Well, in AWG (American Wire Gauge), which is what I'm familiar with, increasing gauge numbers denote decreasing wire diameters. Maybe other wire gauge systems don't have this inverse relationship.

It's really just semantics. AWG is pretty much the industry standard, even in Canada where we are metric and should use mm^2. When specifying and purchasing wire, we would always say a "bigger" wire size than 22AWG would be 1AWG, rather than 28AWG.

I actually am working with very large rectifiers using high power electronics. We convert 13.8kVAC to DC with very high current but the purpose is not for transmission. They are using HVDC for transmission here in Canada - the infrastructure is very expensive but also comes with many advantages. In the places I work, we normally just use 230kVAC.

Well... obviously I don’t have it yet, but I would have thought that if they sell it at those lengths, they work to power the WS80 sufficiently and they will have tested it...

For sure Ecowitt's works. I just dread having to deal with DHL on shipping to Canada! They always seem to charge these outrageous customs handling fees.

[Gyvate]

Hi
maybe I can bring some enlightenment into the discussion here.

I just received my official power supply from Ecowitt (for the WS80).

Have a look at the pictures. From there probably some of the earlier assumptions in this thread might be proven inaccurate (e.g. Voltage).
The official power supply provides 12 V at 1.0 A.

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

below a side view on the connector to the cable which goes to the WS80
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Maybe that and the fact that it's a IP68 device for outdoor use, which means it can be permanently under water up to 1.5 meters depth, gives some indication for the higher pricing.

[solartempest]

Nice Gyvate! That does answer a lot of questions.

It's an isolated power supply so actually it won't be easy to check which is +12VDC or -12VDC since it's a floating system. This may be the reason why Ecowitt changed from a USB power supply (ground referenced) to one with galvanic separation so you would need two insulation failures for improved safety.

Looks like it might be a fully sealed unit. Even though it's IP68, the duration is not specified and per IEC standards that's up to the manufacturer. It likely not permanent immersion but some considerable amount of time since it's rated for the outdoors.

Do you have a photo for the print on the DC wires to the WS80? Curious to see what the wire sizes were. I can see the incoming cable is 2C-18AWG (0.75mm2).

Also if you have a closer photo of the power supply label I am curious to know what certification markings it has. Looks like TUV GS (German approval) along with CCC (Chinese approval) on the cable jacket.

[Gyvate]

Do you have a photo for the print on the DC wires to the WS80? Curious to see what the wire sizes were. I can see the incoming cable is 2C-18AWG (0.75mm2).

Also if you have a closer photo of the power supply label I am curious to know what certification markings it has. Looks like TUV GS (German approval) along with CCC (Chinese approval) on the cable jacket.

On the power cable it says: (very difficult to take a photo of it, by the way ... )

<VDE> 40052148 H05RN-F 300/500V 2x0.75mm² CE SAA-192830-EA Dongguan Wandu Cable Co.,Ltd. CCC A125847 60245 IEC 57(XYZ) 300/500V 2x0.75mm² 2020010104277500 GB/T5013.4-2008/IEC 60245-4:2004

VDE stands for:  Verband der Elektrotechnik Elektronik Informationstechnik  (German Association of Electrical, Electronic & Information Technologies, a Europe-wide and even inter-continental association for standards, testing etc. in that area)

Enjoy that string ...

Difficult to provide a bigger photo - don't have a macro objective - but you can right-click on the picture - select view image - and then magnify it in the browser (in my Firefox it is CTRL+)

But in written, the certifications are: TÜV, GS, CE, SELV and this circle with two horizontal lines in the upper half and a square in a square.

[solartempest]

Is the labelling the same for the wire with the 2 pin connector going to your WS80? It should be even smaller print.  I can relate because reading print on the sides of these things is always a chore.

The string is good information regardless. It's a rubber insulation of type H05RN-F which is UV resistant, oil resistant, flame retardant, and flexible down to -25C. Size is as I mentioned earlier, 2x18AWG.

The square-inside-a-square means Class II power supply. It typically means double insulated for safety of people against electric shocks. The shield symbol means fail-safe transformer. The +/- with circle likely means safety isolation. Above that looks like a NPN junction symbol. No idea what the circle with the two lines in it means.

I'm surprised it has all these European certifications and nothing North American. Regardless, most people won't really care what all this means. Overall it is just saying this is much safer than using a simple indoor USB power supply spliced onto the heating circuit (which is what the original manual depiction may have implied).

[Gyvate]

I'm surprised it has all these European certifications and nothing North American. Regardless, most people won't really care what all this means. Overall it is just saying this is much safer than using a simple indoor USB power supply spliced onto the heating circuit (which is what the original manual depiction may have implied).

I guess they have a different model for the North-American continent.
The plug there is different (by the way in the UK too).
Maybe there's a different label on the supply box for North America.
We will know once someone from there gets themselves one.