Topic: New sensor WH45, 5 in 1 PM2.5 PM10 and CO2, Temp + Humidity

[Autofill]

You raise some good points here, Olicat.

I realized that even if the new sensor doesn't solve the water/humidity issue, it won't matter too much because its made for indoors. However, having the 2.5 and 10 for outside would be great. The problem is, then you loose the CO2 value of the sensor because outdoor CO2 levels, don't really change much on day-to-day basis.

If you haven't measured CO2 levels indoors, you'd be surprised how high it can get with poor ventilation.

Hi!

I'm not quite sure ...
After the experience with the poor performance of the WH41 in high humidity (or a dew point close to the outside temperature), I still struggle with myself whether I should spend so much money on a device that I actually don't really need.

I would rather measure PM10 and PM2.5 OUTSIDE (and send the values ​​to luftdaten.info)!

And it is not known whether this new device has a humidity compensation or a similar correction.
Indoor the constantly lit LED would also be a nuisance.

It would be a nice idea if one could use the device - for example at school - to ventilate sensibly. Against this, however, the fact that this device can only be present ONCE in the setup (in contrast to the WH41 in which 4 can be used).
Hmm ...

Even if Christmas is soon, I will probably wait for the first reports from you. Perhaps then it will be easier to estimate whether the device can be attached to the outside (after modification).
Has anyone already ordered?


Oliver

[Mandrake]

The points regarding external CO2 are well made. In fact the manual uses this fact to help users recalibrate the CO2 sensor by taking it outside to use that relative static value as a baseline.
This is why you would not bother using a CO2 sensor externally

The points made regarding the PM2.5/PM10 values and humidity are a challenge to all low cost sensors and not one I see being solved soon. All commercial AQM sensors use preheaters to take the humidity out of equation but this obviously needs to be done carefully and in a controlled way. For the less informed, the issue is that in certain humidity conditions the atmospheric water condenses into droplets that are detected as pollution by the sensor since they are a match for the molecule size criteria. This is why you wont see the issue solved easily for home sensors.

[Gyvate]

Hi!
.....................
Has anyone already ordered?


Oliver

Yes, I did. After the 868 MHz karma exhaustion it will probably arrive some time in the new year.

It's not (yet) on stock (even though Ecowitt could have known that there would be at least 3-5 orders from Europe right away and they could have produced a few 868MHz models from the start), will need 4-5 weeks, so Lucy says.

I will have it run inside and outside (with some protection against direct rain and sunshine) and will report results.

[Mandrake]

They must have had some 868mhz as mine will be that configuration from the first batch.
I imagine they would have done a limited production run with each frequency to gauge interest as this is quite an expensive sensor.

[Gyvate]

They must have had some 868mhz as mine will be that configuration from the first batch.
I imagine they would have done a limited production run with each frequency to gauge interest as this is quite an expensive sensor.

Luckily I had collected already quite a few points in their system (1 USD of purchase = 10 points) - and in the new system you can use these points to lower your costs: 1 point = 0.01 USD (in the old one it didn't work, only gave you a status with 5 or 10% discount once you crossed a certain threshold).

So I have to pay only 2/3 the price. Otherwise I'd be rather reluctant to invest in such a brand-new model with no reputation yet.

[galfert]

Subject title change. It is a  5-in-1 not 3-in-1 sensor. I suppose at some level it could be seen as a 3-in-1 in terms of air quality. But I felt it should be better thought of as a 5-in-1 sensor.

[Gyvate]

Subject title change. It is a  5-in-1 not 3-in-1 sensor. I suppose at some level it could be seen as a 3-in-1 in terms of air quality. But I felt it should be better thought of as a 5-in-1 sensor.

so we are back in tune with our sensor matrix 

[galfert]

Thought I'd share my tracking information....



10 Dec 2020 14:00
Hand over to airline
Hong Kong Intl (HKG), Hong Kong, Hong Kong
 4PX EXPRESS

10 Dec 2020 13:31
En route to DHL eCommerce DHL ECOMMERCE

10 Dec 2020 13:22
Electronic notification received: your order has been processed and tracking will be updated soon DHL ECOMMERCE

10 Dec 2020 11:30
Arrived at hong kong hub
Hong Kong Intl (HKG), Hong Kong, Hong Kong
 4PX EXPRESS

10 Dec 2020 09:01
Depart from facility to service provider
Shenzhen,China
 4PX EXPRESS

09 Dec 2020 15:33
Shipment arrived at facility and measured
Shenzhen,China
 4PX EXPRESS

09 Dec 2020 15:33
4PX Express picked up the shipment
Shenzhen,China
 4PX EXPRESS

[Jackpots]

There are new 4 tiles on the dashboard as the temp and humidity sensor counted as 1.
Anyway, they are initially named "CO2", "PM2.5_CO2", "PM10_CO2" and Temp and Humidity_CO2"

As far as I have seen so far, it feels like the WH45 uses a different sensor (not confirmed) compared to WH41/WH43 as I realised PM2.5 AQI is calculated differently compared to my WH41 due to the extra ONE decimal place.

PS: There is a footnote down the bottom of the product page, it says "If you have a WH41 or WH43 PM2.5 sensor, the reading of PM2.5 may be different due to different sensor type used."

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[Autofill]

Galfert, you should be getting in a couple of days! Maybe then you can open her up and let us know what's inside

Thought I'd share my tracking information....



10 Dec 2020 14:00
Hand over to airline
Hong Kong Intl (HKG), Hong Kong, Hong Kong
 4PX EXPRESS

10 Dec 2020 13:31
En route to DHL eCommerce DHL ECOMMERCE

10 Dec 2020 13:22
Electronic notification received: your order has been processed and tracking will be updated soon DHL ECOMMERCE

10 Dec 2020 11:30
Arrived at hong kong hub
Hong Kong Intl (HKG), Hong Kong, Hong Kong
 4PX EXPRESS

10 Dec 2020 09:01
Depart from facility to service provider
Shenzhen,China
 4PX EXPRESS

09 Dec 2020 15:33
Shipment arrived at facility and measured
Shenzhen,China
 4PX EXPRESS

09 Dec 2020 15:33
4PX Express picked up the shipment
Shenzhen,China
 4PX EXPRESS

[Mandrake]

I have already asked Lucy if she will share the technical secrets of the internal sensors.
Better that way than cannibalising a new sensor!
Plenty of time to open it up after its been working a while
If I get an update in time I will of course share unless of course someone gets their sensor and feels the urge to open it up!

[Rover1822]

Might want to wait until you have to clean it

[Autofill]

Here is a review of the WH45. Published Dec 11, 2020.

https://youtu.be/hwVd63tCEsU

As you can see, some of the dates from the video are from November 2020.

[Jackpots]

As far as I can tell, the sensors inside the WH45 aren't cheap but it definitely worth it. They are not Honeywell sensor and one of uses infrared technology.

Three secret things about the sensors inside the WH45:

1. One of them has a self-calibration capability and the other sensor didn't.
2. The PM sensor can detect very very small particle.
3. Importantly, using 2x 1.2V rechargeable batteries will be an absolute terrible idea as they are not supposed to work under 3.3V.

[Jackpots]

The sensors inside the WH45 are SCD30 and SPS30 from Sensirion, an upgrade as it has switched to a smaller, lighter and modular sensors, where it uses laser and an IR technology with factory self-calibration. Unfortunately, I do not have a WH41 sensor for the comparison right here.

As Mandrake have stated previously, it required preheaters to remove moisture from the air for commercial AQM . As WH45 is designed for indoor use. In my use case, I don't see my bedroom gets higher than 95% humidity (if it read 99% humidity indoor with no hardware issue, there must be fog or steam near the sensor, in this case, the user is more likely placed the indoor sensor in wrong place). Secondly, it will be really unfair to compare to the commercial sensors based on massive size and price differences. As I believed these sensors are great enough for us to use as it detects and captures the data off our home with a much lower price tag. I shall get one of those when it is available on Amazon.

The following screenshot was captured around 10mins ago. Currently, we are picking up torrential rain (It has reached as high as 450mm of rain within 12 hours from my region). As I placed the sensors next to the window with a CH1 (WH31) sitting side by side, it gets within +-0.1C temp and +-1% humidity margin with those two.
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[Autofill]

Fantastic! Thanks for the information.

[Autofill]

Upon reading the technical specifications of the internal sensors of the WH45, it seems that these sensors can indeed be placed into central HVAC systems, however, they shouldn't be placed in the direct flow, but rather in the slipstream or separate compartment as shown in the picture below. Placing the sensor in the HVAC would give you a general air quality assessment rather than say per room. Unless Ecowitt increases the sensor limit, I'd be OK with this.
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[Mandrake]

I have confirmation from Lucy that Jackpots information about the sensors used is correct and saves anyone wanting to crack open a new sensor when it arrives at your door!

So for the official record the WH45, it uses Sensirion SPS30 sensor for the PM2.5 and 10. And Sensirion SCD30 for CO2.

SPS30:
The MCERTS-certified SPS30 particulate matter (PM) sensor marks a new technological breakthrough in optical PM sensors. Its measurement principle is based on laser scattering and makes use of Sensirion's innovative contamination-resistance technology. This technology, together with high-quality and long-lasting components, enables precise measurements from the device's first operation and throughout its lifetime of more than ten years.

PM2.5 refers to particulate matter with particle diameter up to 2.5 microns and is among the most dangerous air pollutants. Due to their small size, PM2.5 particles can travel deep into the human lung and cause a variety of health issues; for instance, by triggering asthma attacks or contributing to cardiovascular disease. The SPS30 will enable the implementation of innovative air quality monitoring devices that prevent air pollution damage.

The SPS30 is the first mass-market PM sensor awarded with MCERTS certification
Datasheet:
https://www.sensirion.com/fileadmin/user_upload/customers/sensirion/Dokumente/9.6_Particulate_Matter/Datasheets/Sensirion_PM_Sensors_SPS30_Datasheet.pdf

SCD30:
CMOSens® Technology for IR detection enables highly accurate carbon dioxide measurement at a competitive price. Along with the NDIR measurement technology for CO2 detection, a best-in-class Sensirion humidity and temperature sensor is also integrated on the same sensor module. Ambient humidity and temperature can be outputted by Sensirion’s algorithm expertise through modeling and compensating of external heat sources without the requirement for any additional components.

Thanks to the dual-channel principle for the measurement of carbon dioxide concentration, the sensor compensates for long-term drifts automatically by design. The very small module height allows easy integration into different applications.

Carbon dioxide is a key indicator of indoor air quality. Thanks to new energy standards and better insulation, houses have become increasingly energy efficient, but the air quality can deteriorate rapidly. Active ventilation is needed to maintain a comfortable and healthy indoor environment, and to improve the well-being and productivity of the inhabitants. Sensirion’s SCD30 offers accurate and stable CO2, temperature and humidity monitoring. This enables customers to develop new solutions that increase energy efficiency and simultaneously support well-being.
Datasheet:
https://www.sensirion.com/fileadmin/user_upload/customers/sensirion/Dokumente/9.5_CO2/Sensirion_CO2_Sensors_SCD30_Datasheet.pdf

In summary following reading the above it does look like the sensors used are pretty impressive.
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[_John C]

It's now on the Ecowitt site

https://www.ecowitt.com/shop/goodsDetail/97

[wardie]

Took the plunge on this just now after talking to Lucy (along with few other bits). Will be a while to build & send as UK version...

[Jackpots]

This is how the WH45 sensor will looks like on HP2551 console if you have owned a WH41 sensor. I'm guessing if you owned the WH43, then it will loop as the following . (I will need people to verify this statement)

1: AQ2.5 (PM2.5 in µg/m3 - WH45)

2: AQ10 (PM10 in µg/m3 - WH45)

3: AQCO2 (CO2 in ppm- WH45)

or

4: PM2.5 in µg/m3- WH43

[/s]

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Edited: Dec 16, 2020 at 7:30am (Added Strikethrough)

[Gyvate]

@Jackpots:
So that PM2.5 display in the console originates from the WH41 or from the WH45 ?
That very left one under the "Feels like".
The AQ2.5, AQ10 and AQCO₂ are obviously from the WH45. (I assume that AQ does not stand for AQI but simply stands for Air Quality).
As you have both sensors active (I suppose), is the WH41 overwritten by the WH45 or does the console scroll through both (as it does with the soil moisture and the WH31s) or does it scroll only through the AQs ?
As the PM2.5 µm value doesn't change and the sensor reception indicator (signal) is visible, I'm inclined to assume that the very left display is the 1st WH41 only (unfortunately the console doesn't scroll through more WH41/WH43s as it does with the SM and Temp/Hum WH31). But you as the owner of the console should/could know better.
I would be pleased if Ecowitt implemented the scrolling for the WH41 sensors - so far, with firmware 1.6.9, the scrolling doesn't happen.

Nice documentation by the way. 

[olicat]

Hi!

For all developers - the needed keys for the WH45 in Ecowitt-format are:

tf_co2		temperature in °F
humi_co2		humidity
pm25_co2		PM 2.5 value
pm25_24h_co2		PM2.5 24h average
pm10_co2		PM10 value
pm10_24h_co2		PM10 24h average
co2		CO2 value
co2_24h		CO2 24h average
co2_batt		Battery-Level 0..6, 5=max, 0=empty, 6 = DC

A German member from another forum (and apparently the only owner in Europe?) kindly sent the raw data to my FOSHKplugin via custom server.


Regards, Oliver

[galfert]

Funny to see that it is primarily defined as a CO2 sensing device with regards to all variable as if that is its redeeming differentiator. So it is the "CO2" sensor even if you aren't really referring to the CO2.

 

[Gyvate]

@Jackpots:
one more thing - where does the lightning symbol between the outdoor temperature and gust indicators (above the outdoor humidity) come from respectively which sensor does it belong to ? (or is this the/a WH45 indicator ?) - It's not documented in the HP2551 manual.