Author Topic: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast  (Read 1226 times)

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Offline steve1225

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Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« on: March 17, 2023, 05:15:54 PM »
Hi,
Is there any weather station with wireless console (display) which have good weather forecast?

Something which will show forecast for next 1/2/3/4/5/6 hours and/or even 1/2/3 days...

Based on actual readings, weather history and some AI models?

Or external data from profesional weather services (can be payed weather forecast service)?

Offline davidefa

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2023, 05:58:46 PM »
If you like diy this may be an option ( I like the e-paper display, but not tested it ): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhxXVUt1ncg

Online johnd

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2023, 06:27:35 PM »
The new Davis 6313 console has forecast data for several days built-in that is generated by a big international weather model in the cloud. the weather predictions can be viewed graphically. I forget which model is the source. Like all forecast models, it is only an approximate guide to the local microenvironment. Maybe Davis will build in the ability to tweak the forecast according to what the station actually records one day, like learning over time from the discrepancies between prediction and outcome.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2023, 06:34:02 PM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline vinceskahan

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2023, 09:50:36 PM »
Any of the 70+ station types weewx supports if you run the Belchertown skin or if you use the weewx forecast extension and pick who you want your forecast to come from.
WeeWX sites:
  Davis VP2+DFARS to a pi4
  EcoWitt GW1000, WH32 outdoor T+H, multiple WH31 indoor T+H, WH51 soilMoisture (docker)
  Davis AirLink (inside)
  PurpleAir (outside)
Home site:        https://www.skahan.net/
Wunderground: KWAFEDER15
PWS:                KWFEDER15
CWOP:              CW6881

Offline Garth Bock

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2023, 09:57:49 PM »
If you like diy this may be an option ( I like the e-paper display, but not tested it ): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhxXVUt1ncg

Very nice but there is no info on the code or loading it.. etc.

Offline davidefa

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2023, 05:08:26 AM »
Sorry forgot to link the lilygo product page: https://www.lilygo.cc/products/t5-4-7-inch-e-paper-v2-3
These are the github of the 'weather projects' ( not sure if one of these is already preprogrammed in the board ):
- https://github.com/Xinyuan-LilyGO/LilyGo-EPD47/tree/esp32s3
- https://github.com/Xinyuan-LilyGO/LilyGo-EPD-4-7-OWM-Weather-Display

If you like a more stylish project, this is a great ( but not 'ready made' as the lilygo one, and 7.5" e-paper displays are not on the cheap side ): https://hackaday.io/project/189708-esp32-e-paper-weather-display
- https://github.com/lmarzen/esp32-weather-epd
« Last Edit: March 18, 2023, 05:14:09 AM by davidefa »

Online johnd

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2023, 06:14:30 AM »
Any of the 70+ station types weewx supports if you run the Belchertown skin or if you use the weewx forecast extension and pick who you want your forecast to come from.

One problem is that the great majority of AWS buyers do not have the interest or IT skills to run and maintain weewx successfully. They want a configuration that is as close to turnkey as possible. This is not to say anything against weewx - it is undoubtedly a very impressive, flexible and powerful piece of software, but most AWS buyers honestly wouldn't have a clue where to start with it. I know that there are some enthusiastic weewx users as members here, but sadly they are not representative of the wider constituency of AWS purchasers more generally. (Although maybe the OP is perfectly happy to test-drive weewx?)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2023, 07:11:22 AM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline broadstairs

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2023, 06:35:13 AM »
I think that there are very few ways to get a reasonably accurate forecast from any software running an AWS. The primary purpose of all this AWS software is to run the weather station and gather data. In my view to get a sensible forecast you either need to find one of the weather forecasting services for your location which from experience gives an accurate forecast or you need to invest in some specialised forecasting software which uses available atmospheric data together with your AWS data to come up with a local forecast. In my experience this is also quite complex and not for the faint hearted, and may well not be free!

Stuart
Ecowitt GW1003 with ultrasonic wind gauge, lightning sensor and PM2.5 sensor with Personal Weather Tablet as a console.

Online johnd

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2023, 07:15:04 AM »
I think that there are very few ways to get a reasonably accurate forecast from any software running an AWS.

Yes, agreed if that software is trying to generate a forecast only from its own logged data. But if the software is pulling in data from one of the global weather models in the cloud then the forecast could be as good as you are ever likely to see, at least with the current technology and evolution of the model algorithms.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline steve1225

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2023, 07:16:20 AM »
The new Davis 6313 console has forecast data for several days built-in that is generated by a big international weather model in the cloud. the weather predictions can be viewed graphically. I forget which model is the source. Like all forecast models, it is only an approximate guide to the local microenvironment. Maybe Davis will build in the ability to tweak the forecast according to what the station actually records one day, like learning over time from the discrepancies between prediction and outcome.

Thanks for reply.
I tried to find more information, even I read manual for that console.
But as I understand this is a new product - and there is no real usage reviews at this moment?
And there is no information about quality of this forecast.

Did You used that console?

There is 3-6x price difference when comparing Vue/VP2 packages with that console to newest Ecowitt Wittboy with console or Tempest Weather station. 
Question is this worth??? Davis Weather stations looks very dated..

Can the forecast be exported to Home Assistant?

Online johnd

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2023, 08:02:03 AM »
But as I understand this is a new product - and there is no real usage reviews at this moment?

Yes, the 6313 console is a new addition to the Davis range, but the VP2 range in general has been around and tried and tested for many years, I guess it will be a while yet before there are any usage reviews, but TBH such reviews are often only of limited value because they are often made by gadget Youtubers rather than those who understand weather stations in more depth.

Quote
And there is no information about quality of this forecast.

The quality of the forecast is likely to be good, maybe comparable with your national forecasting service. Actually trying to rate the performance of different global weather models and their forecasting accuracy is pretty difficult for amateurs. This is a subject for the scientific literature. But the quality of the forecast from for example the 6313 console will be considerably better than any forecast based solely on local pressure trends etc as measured by the console itself.

Quote
Did You used that console?

Yes

Quote
There is 3-6x price difference when comparing Vue/VP2 packages with that console to newest Ecowitt Wittboy with console or Tempest Weather station. 
Question is this worth???

To a first approximation you get what you pay for. But only you can decide whether it is worth it to you. As far as I am aware, the Ecowitt stations do not access a global weather model for any forecasts, so any of their forecasts will be very primitive.

Quote
Davis Weather stations looks very dated..

Even the new 6313 console? But the measure of a good weather station is surely how well it functions and how long it lasts. This is not a beauty contest.

Quote
Can the forecast be exported to Home Assistant?

There is no simple export option AFAIK. Maybe that feature will be added in the future?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2023, 08:11:52 AM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline broadstairs

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2023, 08:36:40 AM »
My concern for a forecast contained in a Davis system or any other is that it is just one and it may suit your purpose but in my experience here in the UK local Met services are usually better than those I've tried from out of country and even my local ones lack the nuances for my location which has its own micro climate. Certainly Ecowitt equipment does not forecast in anyway comparably with what the Davis setup is providing now.

My own view for here is that the UK Met Office is usually not too bad, however the BBC does not now use the UKMO but a New Zealand based organisation (I believe) which does lack IMHO the local knowledge needed to produce accurate local forecasts, yes their UK wide forecasting is good but locally not so good for our area.

I have been running a suite of programs since 2005 which use data downloaded from the cloud and my local AWS data to produce a reasonable local forecast for an area roughly 20 miles around my location and has been acceptable over the years. No forecast can ever be 100% accurate especially one done on a small setup like mine but it has proved worthwhile.

As with all this stuff you pays your money and takes your choice and sometimes it works and other times it does not, its all a learning experience. There are no right or wrong answers, just whatever works for you.

Stuart
Ecowitt GW1003 with ultrasonic wind gauge, lightning sensor and PM2.5 sensor with Personal Weather Tablet as a console.

Online johnd

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2023, 10:06:51 AM »
My concern for a forecast contained in a Davis system or any other is that it is just one and it may suit your purpose but in my experience here in the UK local Met services are usually better than those I've tried from out of country and even my local ones lack the nuances for my location which has its own micro climate.

Yes I'm sure that is true. But 90% of a loaf is still a whole lot better than just one slice of bread (eg a Zambretti type forecast).

I guess Davis's problem is that they need to choose one global forecast model out of the multiple options out there and also one that is commercially available on acceptable terms. It would probably be impracticable for them to offer different models for different localities, even if that is a really nice idea in principle.

And then there is the question of what criteria to use for defining the 'best' model for a given locality. And I can well imagine that the 'best' model for your locality under some weather regimes might not perform as well under different weather regimes (eg a summer high vs an explosively deepening equinoctual low). Obviously this rating of models is a topic all of its own and perhaps one that can only really be adequately discussed in the professional scientific literature.

But at least the 6313 does offer something that is, I suspect, fundamentally new in a console: numeric values for forecast parameters (min/max temperatures and predicted rainfall for example) for 7 days ahead based on a global weather model (ie rather than only on extrapolations of locally collected pressure data etc), as well as displaying this forecast data in graphical form. At least this will provide the raw material for those interested to run their own analyses of predicted vs actual weather. And maybe this could lead to understanding what corrections could be applied to the predicted values to generate a still more accurate hyperlocal forecast. Maybe, in time, Davis might build a function into the 6313 software to allow users to apply their own preferred correction factors.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2023, 10:13:08 AM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline vinceskahan

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2023, 01:51:13 PM »
Tne problem is that the great majority of AWS buyers do not have the interest or IT skills to run and maintain weewx successfully. They want a configuration that is as close to turnkey as possible.

Agree.  But the problem there are so many forecast providers, many of which support best only their area of the world, so one size can't fit all.  Weewx fits a nice niche for hobbyists because it pretty much fits almost all niches, albeit at requiring a bit of expertise and gear.

Picking a random link - https://learn.adafruit.com/wifi-weather-station-with-tft-display/overview is one option, but even that requires enough expertise to get the software onto the ESP computer.

FWIW, I'd say a Kindle Fire running a browser to something like PWS as a provider is about as turnkey as I can think of.
WeeWX sites:
  Davis VP2+DFARS to a pi4
  EcoWitt GW1000, WH32 outdoor T+H, multiple WH31 indoor T+H, WH51 soilMoisture (docker)
  Davis AirLink (inside)
  PurpleAir (outside)
Home site:        https://www.skahan.net/
Wunderground: KWAFEDER15
PWS:                KWFEDER15
CWOP:              CW6881

Online johnd

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2023, 03:38:25 PM »
But the problem there are so many forecast providers,

But don't forget that we are talking about forecast providers here and not weather station networks. So a forecast provider would have a product based on one of the well-known global weather models, like ECMWF or GFS or IFS or UMGLOBAL - see eg https://docs.meteoblue.com/en/meteo/data-sources/datasets#third-party-weather-simulations for a list of some of the main ones (not sure how up-to-date that list is, but fairly recent I think). The forecast data is then presumably processed and disseminated more widely by platforms like Meteoblue or Windy and probably many more that I'm not aware of.

So the Davis 6313 console is accessing forecast data out to about 7 days from one of these global models, but I don't know which one offhand, without further checking. And that information is right there on the console display. So, yes, sure you still have to learn how to use the console but that's true of any hardware device and the forecast data is only a couple of touchscreen clicks away from the main dashboard display. So no additional software to learn at all.

Not trying to say that the 6313 is necessarily the best forecast data (though I guess that forecast quality must have been one key factor for Davis), but simply that the 6313 is the only AWS console I'm aware of that brings professionally modelled forecast data right to the console screen. Maybe other people are aware of some additional choices, but I wouldn't count Zambretti/pressure-based forecasts in the same league.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline steve1225

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Re: Any Weather Station & Console with good Weather Forecast
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2023, 03:54:06 PM »
Not trying to say that the 6313 is necessarily the best forecast data (though I guess that forecast quality must have been one key factor for Davis), but simply that the 6313 is the only AWS console I'm aware of that brings professionally modelled forecast data right to the console screen. Maybe other people are aware of some additional choices, but I wouldn't count Zambretti/pressure-based forecasts in the same league.

There is also Tempest Weather with their NearCast Technology:

https://youtu.be/hfzEUlCcxBs
https://weatherflow.com/tempest-forecasting/
https://business.weatherflow.com/tempest-network

OK, there is no dedicated console for Tempest Weather. But I can use any iPad/Android tablet with their mobile app or web view..

Forecast for each Tempest Weather Station is simply available over web, even without login..  Example for Faro, PT:
 
https://tempestwx.com/station/75124/
https://tempestwx.com/station/75124/grid

You can select other weather station locations:

https://tempestwx.com/map/51.0322/5.2988/6

Also I found that forecast is available for each weather station owner over public API.. no fees attached..

There is home assistant component for tempest, which can sync sensors actual data and weather forecast.