Topic: What data handling software & hardware needed for station with remote access?

[Adiabatic]

I am considering purchasing a Davis Pro2 (#6152) weather sensor module, unless I see something in the forum replies that dissuades me from even setting up a station.  What could dissuade me is that I cannot relatively easily do what I would like to accomplish. From reading the threads on the forum it appears that my difficulties are not in the station but the data handling.  Thus, my questions are can I do what I want (see conditions below) and what data handling hardware and software are required?  Is it likely that a $1K budget would cover the cost of a set up?  Any comments and ideas would be welcome.

My basic specifications are as follows:
1) Real time measurement of: temperature, wind speed and direction, precipitation and humidity
2) Storage of and processing the data
3) Remote access to both the real time and stored data
4) Unattended operation of entire system

Limitations
House occupied from June through mid October with infrequent visits between.
Electrical power is on throughout the year but there are regular short term outages, computer is usually covered by the UPS.
More familiar with Mac OS than PC but can adapt to latter if necessary.
Possibility of neighbor doing computer restarts or equipment inspection on telephone request.

Data Use
The data are mainly used to monitor conditions that may increase the risk of fire or water damage both when in residence and when absent for extended (months) periods of time.  The data would also be used to establish some baselines with respect to winds that have been a real problem with chimney back flow and out building damage. This is not a critical response unit required for alerts since we have had the house for nine years without it, but it would be nice to know or be able to check in real time if the interior of the house drops below 38˚F.

Existing Computer Service/Equipment
DSL Service at 740KBS down 300KBS up, wireless network in house
iMac OS 10.4 can be dedicated (preferred platform)
Dell laptop XP Professional can be dedicated
UPS backup power to computer and wireless network

Location/Weather Conditions
32˚ 55.9’ N    105˚ 35.9’ W Sacramento Mountains, New Mexico
Elev. ~7,400ft (~2250m)
Usual Daily Temp. Change (max to min) ~35-40˚F
Not unusual to have sustained winds at 20mph gusting to +40mph
Intense sun light (“outdoor” cable ties have a 3 year life span)
Annual precipitation ~25inches (snow, pea size hail and rain)

[d_l]

If you added a WeatherlinkIP data logger to the console in that weatherstation, it could send real-time weather conditions every minute out to your website on servers maintained by Davis and also send out hourly uploads of the archive data to those servers. You then could use the software that comes with the WeatherlinkIP to download the archived data from the Davis servers and process, display, or chart it on the computer at your main residence.  The real-time conditions that were updated every minute would only need a simple browser to view them.

See this real-time demo site as an example: http://www.weatherlink.com/user/demo/index.php?view=main&headers=1 Also click on the Summary link.

Edit: The WeatherlinkIP would do this without having to have a computer running at the house which would greatly extend the run time if the console and Weatherlink logger were placed on a UPS. Actually the console and logger combination could use the internal alkaline batteries as a back up power supply that would last up to several days according to Davis.

[Bushman]

Adiabatic, while the Weatherlink IP add-on is a great idea, it seems to me that you may be more interested in remote monitoring of a vacation home than weather.  I'm guessing that you are a ways away from the place  most of the time.  What I did for my lake place is buy a Sensaphone 400 which calls me when alarm  limits (power loss, water leak,  sound, glass breakage, hi/lo temperatures inside and out, smoke alarms etc.) vary from the  set points or are triggered.  For about half the cost of a Davis system you would need you get everything except windspeed (and even that you could do with an anemometer and counter circuit).  It even has remote cooling/heating turn on!   In addition, I can call it any time and get voice synthesis reports of the status, even including the temperature in the hot tub!  Go to http://www.sensaphone.com fo rinfo.  I think they even have a test number you can dial to hear an actual Sensaphone report.

[Adiabatic]

Thank you both for the suggestions. I followed up on both.  While the Sensaphone would monitor the house I am not sure that is precisely what I want.  It would be nice to have but I would have to change my long distance calling set up that is now restricted to no long distance calling.  I use an MCI card for long distance and it requires a telephone calling system to have the capability of dialing about 25 digits (including pauses).  Then I am not sure what I would do with an alert.

It appears that for $150 more than the Sensaphone I could get the weather station that would provide sufficient alerts yet collect data that can be used for other purposes as well as giving some of the other local residents some useful real time information.  From what the Davis and Ambient people tell me the system described by d-1 would work under the conditions I specified.  From what I was told if I purchased the wireless Vantage Pro2 6152 and WeblinkIP I could get everything online including data archiving.  With the addition of the 6372 temperature probe I could even get the inside temperature so I could tell if the furnace goes out and the temperature drops below the 42F minimum we set the the thermostat for.  This would call for action, since even though the pipes are depressurized a frozen toilet bowl or tank can crack.

The console would have to be connected directly to the wireless router and I would be dependent on the router/modem combination to regularly work.  From my experience with my ISP provider there are frequent losses of connectivity with their servers but they only last a minute or so.  My main concern is that these periodic losses of connectivity would cause the console to have to be restarted or some other physical adjustment.  I cannot ask someone to come in frequently for something like this.  I can get a neighbor to come in a periodically reboot the router/modem which I find is useful for my cable modem here in Texas.  It seems to clean out some accumulated cobwebs (electronic) from the modem according to my local Texas ISP.  I do not know if the same is true for the DSL system in New Mexico.

Anyway thanks for the input.

[Bushman]

OK.  FYI, the Sensaphone can handle 48 digit numbers.  But it is not a weather station - just like a VP is really not a home monitor/control system.  And I'm betting by the time you add it up, you will be at least double the Sensaphone cost.   Not that there's anything wrong with Davis stuff.  I have both and they are both great.

[tomcj2]

A VP2 should do what you want.  Purchase VWS and set up alarms to notify you by email.  I am not sure that you need a 6372 because you have the inside temperature from the console.  You could set one parameter to become a test function, such as "inside humidity>5" so that an email would be generated on a regular basis.  I would also use StartWatch to ensure 1) the necessary programs are always running. and 2) reduce the work your neighbour has to do when he re-boots it.  If you are going to such expense and effort for a few dollars more you could create your own webpage and look at all of the data at your leisure.  A webcam or 2 would top it off.

[d_l]

If you are using a WeatherlinkIP, it reports the state of its internal alarms that you set up with the console or Envoy to the Davis weatherlink.com server. If an alarm is active, then that Davis server can be set up to immediately email you an alarm summary email.  Also you can set that server to email you and/or two other email addresses, a daily summary of the weather conditions at your place.  All this is can be done without the need to run a power-consuming, computer 24/7.

Other than not being able to upload for the duration, the loss of broadband connectivity would not trouble the WeatherlinkIP.  The console cares not a wit if it is hooked to the internet or not.  The WeatherlinkIP would simply resume its every minute and hourly upload once the broadband connection was restored.  This is a more robust solution that a dedicated computer running weather software on site.

So your biggest problem would be to increase the reliability and robustness of your broadband connection so that in the event of a sync loss or a power outage, it could reconnect automatically once the power or DSL sync is restored.  It is possible that you might need a POTS line-connected, power line rebooter if a power reset is all that would be needed in the worst of situations.  With one of those, you simply phone your number there and send a tone code to power cycle the connected equipment.

[dalecoy]

>>  2) Storage of and processing the data
>>  3) Remote access to both the real time and stored data

It looks like the big "push" here is WeatherLinkIP.  There are advantages and disadvantages there.

The big advantage is that data will be uploaded, stored, and displayed on the WeatherLink website.  If you want your weather data on a website, that's the easy way to go - otherwise, if you want your weather data on a website, you have to find a "host" (perhaps your ISP), and mess with the WeatherLink software.  But you didn't say you want a website.

An alternative to a website (or a supplement) would be to set up remote VPN access to the computer that's connected to the VP2 Console.  Then, from anywhere, you could just connect to that computer and do "anything" - including displaying current data, stored data, etc. etc.

If you rely on WeatherLinkIP (that is, don't have an active computer connected to the VP2 Console), the disadvantages include:
1.  Your archive data is "somewhere in the cloud", on a server somewhere.
2.  You can only upload and save what the WeatherLinkIP allows for. 
3.  You can only get the data back in the format that's provided by WeatherLink's website - so processing may be difficult.
Those may not be significant factors to you - but you need to know them.

Now, if you run a computer connected to the VP2 Console (with WeatherLink software), you will be storing ALL of the data, and will have a reasonable variety of processing/graphing capabilities, and can also get the data out in (essentially) any form you want, for subsequent processing.  Of course, you have to take care of the data backups yourself - if you are not ALSO running WeatherLinkIP. 

With your own computer, you can also set up your own website.  It can have whatever data you wish.  You seem to be interested in conditions inside your home, so take a look at this example:  http://www.thecoys.net/weather/inside/Inside_Vantage_Pro_Plus.htm

There are a lot of tradeoffs. 

[d_l]

If you rely on WeatherLinkIP (that is, don't have an active computer connected to the VP2 Console), the disadvantages include:
1.  Your archive data is "somewhere in the cloud", on a server somewhere.
2.  You can only upload and save what the WeatherLinkIP allows for. 
3.  You can only get the data back in the format that's provided by WeatherLink's website - so processing may be difficult.
Those may not be significant factors to you - but you need to know them.

I guess you aren't familiar with the WeatherlinkIP's operation. Those listed disadvantages aren't correct.

1. 4X the normal data logger's capacity can be (but doesn't have to be) archived on a Davis server somewhere AND the normal ISS archive data is also stored in the SRAM of the logger just as it would be with a serial or USB logger. The data on the IP logger can be directly downloaded with a remote computer using a copy of the Weatherlink software if you wish.  You can either leave this access wide open to the entire world by port forwarding port 22222 (changeable if you wish) though your router (there would be no user ID/PW authentication security with this method) or you could use a VPN through your router to the IP logger on port 22222.

2. The data that comes out of the WeatherlinkIP is identical in content and format to that retrieved from the serial or USB version loggers.  If you are retrieving data using a LAN connection, it is just the same as if you had your computer hooked up with a serial port or USB port logger in the console, albeit it is a bit slower to initiate and then pull the data if the WeatherlinkIP is also uploading every minute to the Weatherlink.com site.  The computer TCP/IP access has to wait for the microprocessor in the TCP/IP portion of the logger to release the connection to the serial port within if it was uploading to Weatherlink.com when the computer's access request arrived. 

You could think of the WeatherlinkIP as a regular serial Weatherlink with a serial to ethernet server adapter attached to it. In fact you could even home brew this yourself if you wish, but the cost for one of these adapters is about $100.

3. The data downloaded from the Davis Weatherlink.com server is identical in content and format to that out of the serial or USB version loggers. This archive data IS protected with an ID and a password authentication.  If you wish to use your data logger's storage as your normal archive storage and download it remotely, then the the Davis server could be backup storage should you ever not be able to download directly from your data logger in time to prevent an overwrite of some of your data on the logger.

The Weatherlink IP uses about 3W Edit:0.5W (I think).  Compare this to a low power draw computer (assuming your laptop on site is this low power otherwise use your own power draw figures) drawing maybe 80 watts left on 24/7. I figure that at $0.13/KWHr, the WeatherlinkIP will cover its discounted cost in a little over two years. Meanwhile you save wear and tear on your laptop's HD.

Now there are some aspects that some people consider to be drawbacks to using a WeatherlinkIP:

1. It uploads to your "pre-built", personal weather website on the Davis server which only has basic text presentation of weather data. You would have to make other provisions if you wanted a richer graphical weather website.

2. It is much more expensive initially than buying a USB or serial data logger.

3. Weather plotting and analysis programs other than Weatherlink may not yet be capable of downloading from a WeatherlinkIP or from the Weatherlink.com server as they would be from a serial or USB Weatherlink.

4. If you were having a computer server on 24/7 for some other reason then it might just as well be running a weather software progran and pulling the archived data from a cheaper serial Weatherlink rather than a more expensive WeatherlinkIP.

5. It only uploads to Weather Underground every 15 minutes via the Weatherlink.com server and not any more or less frequently. Also all the data that could be uploaded to that site isn't and it is missing the 10-min wind gust reading.

I suppose there are other drawbacks that I haven't yet considered.

[dalecoy]

I don't see any giant conflicts between what I said and your clarification (which, of course, was very helpful).  Perhaps it's how I wrote it.  I wasn't trying to denigrate the WeatherLinkIP - but simply to say that it isn't necessarily a complete solution. 

A couple of questions for clarification, though:

First: I thought that there were some data elements that weren't (yet) being handled by the WeatherLinkIP, and that there had been requests for improvement in that area.  What's the situation about that?

Secondly:

3. The data downloaded from the Davis Weatherlink.com server is identical in content and format to that out of the serial or USB version loggers.

Are you indicating that, if I download archived data from an account on Weatherlink.com, I would end up with exactly the same files as I would have, if using WeatherLink software to download the data from the console (through any of the 3 loggers)?  That is, I could next year download that data to a different PC, and use WeatherLink to analyze it? 

Including things like solar, UV, THSW, Heating/Cooling Degree Days, etc.?

I had looked at all of the available literature, and the demo, and was totally unaware of that.  Thanks for setting me straight.

[d_l]

Dale, it is very easy to be unfamiliar with the WeatherlinkIP's operation and capabilities if you just read those FAQs for it.  I think they could have done a better job with more FAQ questions that better explain it.  As a matter of fact, I originally bought a serial logger because I didn't understand what the WeatherlinkIP could do.  Maybe they added some more FAQs or maybe it just dawned on me, but with the closing days of that rebate, I realized that the IP logger could be a pretty powerful, albeit limited solution. So going the rebate route has cost me more than getting the IP logger from the get go!

Anyhow I think the WeatherlinkIP would satisfy all the data requirements that Adiabatic originally stipulated.  If he decided that wanted a fancier weather web site someday, then by itself, it would fall a bit short.

Your first question.  You might be thinking about some data elements that the Weatherlink.com server site does not upload to Weather Underground such as their 10-min wind gust (it does not get that value from the logger) or does not show on the individual personal weather websites namely the THSW Index.

2. AFAIK, all the data you see in the Weatherlink Browse Records is archived in the IP logger and on the Weatherlink.com server with the possible exception of the THSW Index and the Degree Days on the server.  Those data can definitely be recalculated by your computer once you download the other data from the server by use of the "Recalculate THSW Index" or the "Recalculate Daily Values" menu choice in Weatherlink menu The recalculations may even be automatic once you download from the server.  I've only done an achival download from their server once because of the way I'm using the WeatherlinkIP which blocks the automatic archival uploads.

For someone like you running a web site with graphic elements, the WeatherlinkIP probably doesn't make much sense because you need a computer on all the time to push those graphics to your web server or to host the web server.  If you have an LAN that you could connect your console or Envoy to, it might make more sense to own if you didn't want those receivers right next to your computer, e.g. you would have to worry about the serial or USB cord length.

Where the WeatherlinkIP really shines is at remote sites for remote access of data and that might loose power frequently so you don't want to run a computer and for someone that doesn't want a fancy personal weather web site.

You can see in the Weatherlink software v5.8 and later, that there are three ways to access a TCP/IP connection: the local device ID which is really by MAC address, the remote IP address which could be a static IP on your LAN or an IP on the internet, and a web download from the Davis archive server.

I hope this clears up some questions you might have had.

Dave

[dalecoy]

That helps.  Thanks.

Fully understanding the capabilities of "things" is equally as tough as figuring out one's own "requirements".

For (off-topic) info:

Adiabatic:  I lived in Santa Fe NM until about 1.5 years ago, when we moved to Missouri.  I miss Santa Fe.

d_l:  The dedicated "environment" PC here does a lot of things, 24/7.  Some of them are visible in links from http://www.thecoys.net/  (which is a work-in-progress).

[Bushman]

...
Where the WeatherlinkIP really shines is at remote sites for remote access of data and that might loose power frequently so you don't want to run a computer and for someone that doesn't want a fancy personal weather web site.

Most "remote sites" don't have broadband.  It does not work with regular POTS which is a HUGE disadvantage IMHO.