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Weather Station Hardware => What Weather Station Should I Buy? => Topic started by: galfert on July 12, 2019, 06:11:32 AM
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This was a difficult comparison to make. After spending a few years on this forum these are the main brand/model choices that most people go with. There are other brands and other models, but these are the most popular. There are so many exceptions to these basic attributes that I almost did not post this. This is an important point. For example with Acurite Atlas Access I list it as not offering a WiFi capability but if you wanted you could add a WiFi bridge from 3rd party router manufacturer. There are sometimes ways around some issues. Please feel free to point out any mistakes.
I initially did this for myself but I've decided to share it. This comparison has a focus on what you'll miss or what are some major differences.
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* UPDATE: Ecowitt will soon release an SHT35 chip sensor model WH32-EP (May 2020) for outdoor use, and WH31-EP for indoor use.
** ObserverIP no longer recommended. Just stick to the GW1000.
This comparison was done in an attempt to show that there is no best weather station that checks all the boxes for everyone at any price. They all fall short. Even Davis VP2 a major drawback is the price premium and dated black and white LCD display. Many will say that the price is worth the years of service. But Davis temperature and humidity sensors on average last 18 months (give or take with some exceptions) and then they need replaced at ~$50. For many people though the Davis humidity sensors have lasted 5 or 6 years. But the rest of the unit is a tank. Unfortunately the Davis Vue does not have a cost effective replacement temperature and humidity sensor as you are practically replacing the entire outdoor unit at a much more expensive price upwards of $160. The Vue is the only one of these I would not recommend, I'd say you are best in the Ambient (Ecowitt) and Acurite range or go full boat with a VP2. The Vue is sort of the middle range that eh, in the long term not worth it, for a bit more you can have a VP2 without UV and without solar (like the Vue since it doesn't have those features).
This thread is not intended to start any fanyboy wars. This sort of information should be easily available. It is not uncommon for technical publications to make product comparison Pros and Cons. Let's add to the conversation with meaningful analysis and solutions. Every manufacturer could learn a thing or two from the other companies and do things better. Acurite could learn that people shouldn't have to jump through hoops (intercepting network data and running Linux) to get at the data locally to publish the data to other online services, personal websites and 3rd party programs for analysis. Ambient could learn to put better sensors instead of lowly SHT30 that work well in most climates unless you are in a dry weather region. I already mentioned Davis with their dated display but something else they could do is change their sensors to be I2C compatible so that we could replace sensors for better models like SHT35 / SHT85. There are many more things they can all learn...these are just some examples to show that they all fall short. These are things that are not in this initial basic comparison.
It is important to also realize that there is personal choice. Nothing should be compared just at face value. Different things represent value to different people. For example for me an important feature may be ease of data acquisition for other 3rd party software, but for someone else having better wind sensors may be more important, or product durability, or maybe they just prefer to support an American company. My point is that there are many more things to keep in mind. For some they just may prefer myAcurite.com over Ambientweather.net or Weatherlink.com which are each perspective companies cloud service.
I thought of adding a long list of Pros and Cons to each. But maybe that can be done by all of use with follow up posts.
We all win if these companies continue to learn and put out new products when they see that all of these things matter to us.
If you are an undecided user to this forum and are buying your first or next weather station hopefully this thread will help and not turn into some crazy war.
UPDATE: This post is outdated information. Things change fast. For example there now is a lightning sensor option for Fine Offset clones. There are now ultrasonic anemometer options for both FO clones and Davis. Many more new sensors are now available like PM2.5 and more. This thread is not sticky because it would require maintenance and constant updating to keep information current. Besides this thread was started with the intention that users share their grips about the station that they owned and nobody wanted to share the cons of what they own. I wanted to hear about both pros and cons but people are too proud and blinded by their investment decision to not want to dis on what they own. I saw it as a way to make it known to the manufacture that there was something that should be improved. But I guess not everyone thinks like me.
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Instead of coming out and defending your product of choice, since you are an expert with your current weather station why don't you share what frustrates you the most which are things that others not experienced with your brand/model would not know.
I'll start...
Ambient Weather could do the following things better:
- replace SHT30 for at least a SHT31
- offer other consoles like the GW1000 without needing to go to Ecowitt for it which is compatible but not an obvious choice for someone just looking at Ambient Weather's website.
- Offer a model with separate components instead of all-in-one design (Ecowitt has this)
- perhaps offer something that does not feel so cheaply made (my one year old WS-2902-ARRAY has yellowed badly).
- provide a wind sensor that reads higher than 100 mph
- Add a lightning sensor
- add more sensors like pool sensor
There is more but that is a good start.
In some ways I should probably have mentioned Ecowitt in the initial comparison. They are a Fine Offset clone reseller like Ambient. But I think most people soon realize that when they can't buy an Ambient in their country an alternative reseller is available for seemingly the same product. Ecowitt will sell you a complete weather station. They have a cloud service much like Ambientweather.net. Which is Ecowitt.net. Ecowitt is relatively a new reseller but proving to be an excellent solution provider with great customer service. They will ship world wide which Ambient doesn't do. So keep them in mind. I've mentioned these wants to Ecowitt and since they are a close partner to Fine Offset they have already delivered on many shortcomings of Ambient for example with the GW1000 console and other sensors and software feature updates like customized server for data and a local API.
It's okay to mention the Pros of any brand/model
Ambient Weather Pros:
- Doesn't break the bank, especially for those starting off.
- ease of getting the data locally into 3rd party programs especially with the GW1000. Which means you can easily upload data to any online service or your own website.
- Nice looking outdoor unit (at least compared to the older generation)
- Very nice fully featured color LCD display on the WS-2000 or Ecowitt HP2551
- Extra temperature and humidity sensors (up to 8 additional)
- PM2.5 sensor
- Ambientweather.net has nice look and offers Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant compatibility to your data
- Ambientweather.net has API to send your data to personal website without need for 3rd party software
- Upload to several online services offered for all models: Weather Underground, PWSweather, WeatherCloud. (PWSweather upload done via Ambientweather.net, WeatherCloud upload configured using awnet or WS View mobile app)
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I have a Davis Vantage Vue that I like, hopefully lasts longer than 18 months. As many have noted before the black&white console seems behind the times and the Weatherlink software looks very dated so I don't have much use for it. No doubt your post will create lively discussion. I appreciate the work you put into doing this.
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Just get a VP2 and you'll be happy.
I am.
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Just get a VP2 and you'll be happy.
I am.
Do you need to change your temp/humidity sensor aprox. every 18 months to maintain accuracy?
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Not so far
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The only problem with this sheet is the price. Price can be a big influence in ones decision.
You can buy a Vue for about 250 to 270 dollars new.
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Just get a VP2 and you'll be happy.
I am.
Do you need to change your temp/humidity sensor aprox. every 18 months to maintain accuracy?
Thats a big no :)
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The only problem with this sheet is the price. Price can be a big influence in ones decision.
You can buy a Vue for about 250 to 270 dollars new.
That doesn't include a logger. My comparison clearly states that this is an average price for a typical configuration.
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My only comment is that ~300 ft fir Acurite is, IME, wildly overstated.
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My only comment is that ~300 ft fir Acurite is, IME, wildly overstated.
What should it be Acurite then? Ambient advertises 300 ft but typical performance is only 100 ft which I why I went with 100 ft for the Ambient.
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my 2 pence worth
i chose the vp2 for long term durability, upgrades and add on additions as time and funds will permit, since purchasing ive added the uv sensor,just about to order a single rain tipper ,bought a spare temp sensor , i like this idea you can build around this product , most importantly the vast array of regular spares in the event nature plays it card ,or something fails . lessons learnt with fine offset as you quote poor cheap manufactured materials used , the yellow color turning highlights a serious lack of attention to uv damage eventually it will crumble as i discovered after 8 months ... davis vp2 comes at a price above all but its a great product to build upon . long term durability is always at forefront on my thoughts.
nice comparison but i beg to differ on the sht31 problem i live 150 meters from the seafront the spread this year has been 9%(rare south easterly winds) to 100%(dense fog) , i wouldn’t expect to go lower in terms of humidity being this close to the sea front but summer is not over yet so who knows..
edit..forgot too add console if they did release a more modern one you could safely bet it will be backwards compatible so my faith in this product grows knowing how the release of additional upgrades always seem to be backwards compatible and surprisingly plug and play in most cases..
will follow with interest..brian
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The only problem with this sheet is the price. Price can be a big influence in ones decision.
You can buy a Vue for about 250 to 270 dollars new.
That doesn't include a logger. My comparison clearly states that this is an average price for a typical configuration.
That should be broken down for clarity of others (new comers to the hobby). This was not clear to me. A typical configuration does not include a logger and should be clear and separated. Also you are speaking of personal experience.... I have never had to replace my temp/hum sensor on my vue. 6yrs in now. This needs to be said. Its is more common for the wind speed cartridge than the temp/hum sensor to go bad on a vue.
You need to be clear about this points when trying to help others, Dont poison the well (Indirectly). Be neutral and let the end user decide, Do not speak as if IT IS FACT Users can take that as good data and regret it at the end. This goes for everything... Not just this scenario.
Take this as constructive criticism. :)
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my 2 pence worth
i chose the vp2 for long term durability, upgrades and add on additions as time and funds will permit, since purchasing ive added the uv sensor,just about to order a single rain tipper ,bought a spare temp sensor , i like this idea you can build around this product , most importantly the vast array of regular spares in the event nature plays it card ,or something fails . lessons learnt with fine offset as you quote poor cheap manufactured materials used , the yellow color turning highlights a serious lack of attention to uv damage eventually it will crumble as i discovered after 8 months ... davis vp2 comes at a price above all but its a great product to build upon . long term durability is always at forefront on my thoughts.
nice comparison but i beg to differ on the sht31 problem i live 150 meters from the seafront the spread this year has been 9%(rare south easterly winds) to 100%(dense fog) , i wouldn’t expect to go lower in terms of humidity being this close to the sea front but summer is not over yet so who knows..
will follow with interest..brian
This is a excellent example of why it should be pointed that the user is speaking of personal experience. Specially in the weather hobby.... Some just work better for others due to the surroundings. Maybe Ambien sucks in Istanbul but could do well in a Tropical climate due to less exposure to "something" LOL
And agreed 100% with what you said Brian.
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Good point being brought up. Which you can see adds to my reluctance of having put this information up to begin with. But I felt that I don't need to be the sole provider of the information. We can all contribute. Its going well. This is good stuff.
To the SHT31 problem of the Davis units I'm going by the history of the massive SHT31 thread that is now a year old and still going. I also have personal experience in dealing with several Davis units that belong to neighbors and to people that I've helped out identifying the problem world wide on the CWOP network and on AWEKAS. Many Davis owners don't even realize they have a humidity (dew point) problem where their sensors get stuck at a certain limit sometimes 94% some times 87% or just about anywhere around there, then if ignored for long enough the crash (go down really low or to 0% and then bounce back when the RH drops and they temporarily recover). Sometimes the problem is also high middle range bias of the humidity sensor. Climate and luck seem to play a part. The 18 month is a statement by many users on the massive SHT31 thread. This problem is the Davis has not been forthcoming with information regarding this very real issue and if it has been resolved with the newest replacement sensors. The unfortunate part of this is that Davis uses an LSS (Legacy Sensirion Bus) with their SHT31 sensor so in that respect they are very different than the SHT30 and SHT31 that Ambient and Acurite use. That posses some challenges in attempting DIY changes with other stuff (read the Massive SHT31 thread for more info). Some Davis users have perfectly working humidity sensors but they max out at 94% or 96%...I see soooo soooo many of these...they are everywhere. This is a real issue. The VP2 is still a wonderful product and among the best that you can buy when money is no object. I just wouldn't say it is perfect.
Massive SHT31 thread:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=34658.0
Here is a neighboring VP2 with failed sensor, they are everywhere. Yet another one that I've offered to fix. It is a school near me (WeatherSTEM system). It is my kids school. It is almost 2 years old.
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KFLOVIED48
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You need to be clear about this points when trying to help others, Dont poison the well (Indirectly). Be neutral and let the end user decide, Do not speak as if IT IS FACT Users can take that as good data and regret it at the end. This goes for everything... Not just this scenario.
Take this as constructive criticism. :)
I'm trying to be clear with as many aspects as I can. I stated that I want you all to participate to clear up any points. All the information doesn't need to come from me. I'll fix the OP if needed. The fact that you have a perfectly working humidity sensor for several years is testament to what I said....it doesn't happen to everyone and some fair better and some fair worse. I am being factual and not biased. I'm an Ambient owner but I recognize all the faults. I wish for a Davis VP3 and an Acurite Elite to come out and be stellar and tackles all these issues. I don't think I'm poisoning anything. I want to be as much of a fan and supporter of all the brands discussed. If we don't raise these points then the next version or model will come out and these issues will not be resolved.
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My only comment is that ~300 ft fir Acurite is, IME, wildly overstated.
What should it be Acurite then? Ambient advertises 300 ft but typical performance is only 100 ft which I why I went with 100 ft for the Ambient.
Maybe change the current row name to "Mfg. Stated Range" and add a second "Real World Range"; and I'd say 100 ft is about right. I have LOS 25 feet away and I get 2-3 of 4 bars. A sensor in the garage 40 feet away gets 1-2. Nothing unusual for 433mHz
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To the SHT31 problem of the Davis units I'm going by the history of the massive SHT31 thread that is now a year old and still going.
It may be a massive thread, but with relatively few contributors. How relevant it is to an individual user depends hugely on their climate and how they prioritise RH readings. I'd say two things from a UK perspective:
1. RH is the least important of all weather parameters to most users. Complaints get raised about everything else, especially wind speed & rainfall accuracy - though this is often eg a siting rather than a sensor issue - but RH is last on the list IME.
2. I'd place the average life of an SHT31 sensor at 4-6 years. Yes, they do need replacing after an extended period, but typically not for eg 5 years.
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For me, one of the most important comparisons is stated accuracy.
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Ambient could learn to put better sensors instead of lowly SHT30 that work well in most climates unless you are in a dry weather region.
Don't blame the SHT30, it has a full 0-100% range. Blame Ambient for not allowing it to do it's job under 10%, which is frankly IMO, cheap.
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Whether Davis has addressed this problem or not I have no idea, but put a more reliable and stronger fan in it. Also allow for an a/c option for a fan (pretty sure they use to).
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My only comment is that ~300 ft fir Acurite is, IME, wildly overstated.
What should it be Acurite then? Ambient advertises 300 ft but typical performance is only 100 ft which I why I went with 100 ft for the Ambient.
Maybe change the current row name to "Mfg. Stated Range" and add a second "Real World Range"; and I'd say 100 ft is about right. I have LOS 25 feet away and I get 2-3 of 4 bars. A sensor in the garage 40 feet away gets 1-2. Nothing unusual for 433mHz
Good idea. Done. What is the Real World RF Range for a Davis?
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I've amended my OP to state that for some the failure of the Davis SHT31 is 18 months give or take and for some it has lasted 5 or 6 years. I agree. I guess there are variables and information that are out of our reach....like what Davis has done to address this issue, and how prevalent it is and how different climates affect the durability of the SHT31.
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Good idea. Done. What is the Real World RF Range for a Davis?
You've got to put some qualifications on it, eg what's the height of transmit & receive antennas, is it genuinely clear line of sight etc. I'd say the Davis figure of 300m/1000ft is a pretty good central estimate for antennas at eg 5-6 ft and with good LoS with no obstructions. But it's better over water for instance where you might still see an RSSI of upper 20's at anything up to 400-500m, provided the antennas were reasonably elevated.
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I guess there are variables and information that are out of our reach....like what Davis has done to address this issue, and how prevalent it is and how different climates affect the durability of the SHT31.
IF Davis has addressed the 31 issue (which folks here rightly blame them for AFAIC), they'll never admit it because they never did in the first place, and that would make them culpable for potential fraud. The only way we'll know is to buy new ones and see how it performs across the board. My new 31 is performing better than I ever expected, but still have to see more of the wet side for any true conclusion (still waiting for the monsoon :sad:).
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I've amended my OP to state that for some the failure of the Davis SHT31 is 18 months give or take and for some it has lasted 5 or 6 years.
That 4-6 years was a typical estimate from me. But some SH11 sensors have lasted 10 years or more and there's no obvious reason that SHT31 wouldn't perform equally well. I'd say that 18 months was a misleadingly low estimate for many users, but it does depend on how pernickety users might be and what the actual hard evidence might be that the sensor is not performing adequately.
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Like anything, you'll see 10X more post about when things break then when they don't.
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Being a little bit nitpicky but the Atlas display is a TFT LCD display. TFT = touch screen
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My only comment is that ~300 ft fir Acurite is, IME, wildly overstated.
What should it be Acurite then? Ambient advertises 300 ft but typical performance is only 100 ft which I why I went with 100 ft for the Ambient.
Maybe change the current row name to "Mfg. Stated Range" and add a second "Real World Range"; and I'd say 100 ft is about right. I have LOS 25 feet away and I get 2-3 of 4 bars. A sensor in the garage 40 feet away gets 1-2. Nothing unusual for 433mHz
I'm getting 300' range from my Acurite 5 in 1 which is located about 30' up a hill, then angling down into my house to my Access via a window. (It does cross a very small pond-- maybe this boosts the signal?) Signal strength is excellent according to MyAcurite. No lost data though sometimes extra data such as occasional 1" of reported rain when the sun is shining! ](*,) (I'm waiting for a resolution from customer support......) When I had the SmartHub with the same 5 in 1 the range wasn't as good but I didn't get erroneous rain data. I did get a few 100+mph readings on calm days from time to time though.
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My only comment is that ~300 ft fir Acurite is, IME, wildly overstated.
What should it be Acurite then? Ambient advertises 300 ft but typical performance is only 100 ft which I why I went with 100 ft for the Ambient.
Maybe change the current row name to "Mfg. Stated Range" and add a second "Real World Range"; and I'd say 100 ft is about right. I have LOS 25 feet away and I get 2-3 of 4 bars. A sensor in the garage 40 feet away gets 1-2. Nothing unusual for 433mHz
I'm getting 300' range from my Acurite 5 in 1 which is located about 30' up a hill, then angling down into my house to my Access via a window. (It does cross a very small pond-- maybe this boosts the signal?) Signal strength is excellent according to MyAcurite. No lost data though sometimes extra data such as occasional 1" of reported rain when the sun is shining! ](*,) (I'm waiting for a resolution from customer support......) When I had the SmartHub with the same 5 in 1 the range wasn't as good but I didn't get erroneous rain data. I did get a few 100+mph readings on calm days from time to time though.
Rhino is in these videos. He pops in here infrequently.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My8HF6nBcF0[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzgZWKtJlHE[/youtube]
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How does the 5n1 not have easy local data access? There are 5n1 displays that have a serial port that can be read by VIS, weewx, Meteobridge, etc. Many report that way.
As for the Access, have you ever tried Acuparse? The auto-installer works nicely, and he's built in a tool to make the server name change on the Access simple. Other than making a Windows version, I can't see how this can get much easier.
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Being a little bit nitpicky but the Atlas display is a TFT LCD display. TFT = touch screen
Updated - Thank you.
How does the 5n1 not have easy local data access? There are 5n1 displays that have a serial port that can be read by VIS, weewx, Meteobridge, etc. Many report that way.
As for the Access, have you ever tried Acuparse? The auto-installer works nicely, and he's built in a tool to make the server name change on the Access simple. Other than making a Windows version, I can't see how this can get much easier.
Updated 5-in-1 regarding USB display for easy local data acquisition. Thanks!
Acuparse = Linux = Not Easy. Just mentioning Linux to many people is an automatic no go where they won't even attempt it no matter how easy the instructions are. Besides there is more than the Linux component as you have to put your console behind a different network to capture the data.
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Being a little bit nitpicky but the Atlas display is a TFT LCD display. TFT = touch screen
Updated - Thank you.
How does the 5n1 not have easy local data access? There are 5n1 displays that have a serial port that can be read by VIS, weewx, Meteobridge, etc. Many report that way.
As for the Access, have you ever tried Acuparse? The auto-installer works nicely, and he's built in a tool to make the server name change on the Access simple. Other than making a Windows version, I can't see how this can get much easier.
Updated 5-in-1 regarding USB display for easy local data acquisition. Thanks!
Acuparse = Linux = Not Easy. Just mentioning Linux to many people is an automatic no go where they won't even attempt it no matter how easy the instructions are. Besides there is more than the Linux component as you have to put your console behind a different network to capture the data.
No. That's not correct. Why are you saying that?
If "Linux = Not Easy", then what's the point of continuing? You can't type or cut-and-paste one line?
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Being a little bit nitpicky but the Atlas display is a TFT LCD display. TFT = touch screen
Updated - Thank you.
How does the 5n1 not have easy local data access? There are 5n1 displays that have a serial port that can be read by VIS, weewx, Meteobridge, etc. Many report that way.
As for the Access, have you ever tried Acuparse? The auto-installer works nicely, and he's built in a tool to make the server name change on the Access simple. Other than making a Windows version, I can't see how this can get much easier.
Updated 5-in-1 regarding USB display for easy local data acquisition. Thanks!
Acuparse = Linux = Not Easy. Just mentioning Linux to many people is an automatic no go where they won't even attempt it no matter how easy the instructions are. Besides there is more than the Linux component as you have to put your console behind a different network to capture the data.
No. That's not correct. Why are you saying that?
If "Linux = Not Easy", then what's the point of continuing? You can't type or cut-and-paste one line?
What is not correct? What is the point of continuing what? cut-and-paste????? I'm sorry I'm not understanding what you are saying.
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No. That's not correct. Why are you saying that?
If "Linux = Not Easy", then what's the point of continuing? You can't type or cut-and-paste one line?
Well, it is a lot more than copying and pasting one line, you have to create your own internal DNS servers and override acurite.com dns ip address. I am a Linux expert and I would call that non-trival. (Oh, I can do it, I have 2 Pi Holes and weewx running with interceptor) I just would not call acuparser trivial to setup.
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Being a little bit nitpicky but the Atlas display is a TFT LCD display. TFT = touch screen
Updated - Thank you.
How does the 5n1 not have easy local data access? There are 5n1 displays that have a serial port that can be read by VIS, weewx, Meteobridge, etc. Many report that way.
As for the Access, have you ever tried Acuparse? The auto-installer works nicely, and he's built in a tool to make the server name change on the Access simple. Other than making a Windows version, I can't see how this can get much easier.
Updated 5-in-1 regarding USB display for easy local data acquisition. Thanks!
Acuparse = Linux = Not Easy. Just mentioning Linux to many people is an automatic no go where they won't even attempt it no matter how easy the instructions are. Besides there is more than the Linux component as you have to put your console behind a different network to capture the data.
No. That's not correct. Why are you saying that?
If "Linux = Not Easy", then what's the point of continuing? You can't type or cut-and-paste one line?
What is not correct? What is the point of continuing what? cut-and-paste????? I'm sorry I'm not understanding what you are saying.
Besides there is more than the Linux component as you have to put your console behind a different network to capture the data.
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No. That's not correct. Why are you saying that?
If "Linux = Not Easy", then what's the point of continuing? You can't type or cut-and-paste one line?
Well, it is a lot more than copying and pasting one line, you have to create your own internal DNS servers and override acurite.com dns ip address. I am a Linux expert and I would call that non-trival. (Oh, I can do it, I have 2 Pi Holes and weewx running with interceptor) I just would not call acuparser trivial to setup.
No. You don't need to do a DNS override. He has a tool built into the admin interface to change the server name in the Access.
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Okay I hope this thread does not get derailed...
I'm putting this nicely.....Let's not debate what steps are trivial or not or what the specific steps are to accomplish a given configuration.
I think it is a solid point that the minute many people hear the word Linux they dismiss it. They need to install Linux and deal with maintaining a Linux system. Just dealing with the command prompt is foreign to a lot of people....whether they cut and paste or what not.
Linux = Not Easy....period. The End.
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Okay I hope this thread does not get derailed...
I'm putting this nicely.....Let's not debate what steps are trivial or not or what the specific steps are to accomplish a given configuration.
I think it is a solid point that the minute many people hear the word Linux they dismiss it. They need to install Linux and deal with maintaining a Linux system. Just dealing with the command prompt is foreign to a lot of people....whether they cut and paste or what not.
Linux = Not Easy....period. The End.
One line. Just one line.
wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/acuparse/installer/master/install.sh && sudo sh install.sh | tee ~/acuparse.log
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Okay I hope this thread does not get derailed...
I'm putting this nicely.....Let's not debate what steps are trivial or not or what the specific steps are to accomplish a given configuration.
I think it is a solid point that the minute many people hear the word Linux they dismiss it. They need to install Linux and deal with maintaining a Linux system. Just dealing with the command prompt is foreign to a lot of people....whether they cut and paste or what not.
Linux = Not Easy....period. The End.
One line. Just one line.
wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/acuparse/installer/master/install.sh && sudo sh install.sh | tee ~/acuparse.log
Yes but you have to install and maintain a Linux system. Most people don't even know how to install Windows. They use what came loaded on their computer.
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Okay I hope this thread does not get derailed...
I'm putting this nicely.....Let's not debate what steps are trivial or not or what the specific steps are to accomplish a given configuration.
I think it is a solid point that the minute many people hear the word Linux they dismiss it. They need to install Linux and deal with maintaining a Linux system. Just dealing with the command prompt is foreign to a lot of people....whether they cut and paste or what not.
Linux = Not Easy....period. The End.
One line. Just one line.
wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/acuparse/installer/master/install.sh && sudo sh install.sh | tee ~/acuparse.log
Yes but you have to install and maintain a Linux system. Most people don't even know how to install Windows. They use what came loaded on their computer.
Installation of Linux is very painless these days. Especially for things like a Pi that grade-school kids put together.
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My only comment is that ~300 ft fir Acurite is, IME, wildly overstated.
What should it be Acurite then? Ambient advertises 300 ft but typical performance is only 100 ft which I why I went with 100 ft for the Ambient.
Maybe change the current row name to "Mfg. Stated Range" and add a second "Real World Range"; and I'd say 100 ft is about right. I have LOS 25 feet away and I get 2-3 of 4 bars. A sensor in the garage 40 feet away gets 1-2. Nothing unusual for 433mHz
Good idea. Done. What is the Real World RF Range for a Davis?
When I first got my Davis I tested the range out to 700 feet as that is where my buddy's cabin was as he wanted his own console. Worked fine. I would say 700+ I've read others who say much more than 1000 ft.
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My only comment is that ~300 ft fir Acurite is, IME, wildly overstated.
What should it be Acurite then? Ambient advertises 300 ft but typical performance is only 100 ft which I why I went with 100 ft for the Ambient.
Maybe change the current row name to "Mfg. Stated Range" and add a second "Real World Range"; and I'd say 100 ft is about right. I have LOS 25 feet away and I get 2-3 of 4 bars. A sensor in the garage 40 feet away gets 1-2. Nothing unusual for 433mHz
Good idea. Done. What is the Real World RF Range for a Davis?
When I first got my Davis I tested the range out to 700 feet as that is where my buddy's cabin was as he wanted his own console. Worked fine. I would say 700+ I've read others who say much more than 1000 ft.
Thank you. I'll just stick to saying Davis range is 1000 ft for real world RF range experience. I have to say I've not seen people complain about the range in a Davis. Perhaps because 1000 ft is more than adequate for most people.
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Good idea. Done. What is the Real World RF Range for a Davis?
You've got to put some qualifications on it, eg what's the height of transmit & receive antennas, is it genuinely clear line of sight etc. I'd say the Davis figure of 300m/1000ft is a pretty good central estimate for antennas at eg 5-6 ft and with good LoS with no obstructions. But it's better over water for instance where you might still see an RSSI of upper 20's at anything up to 400-500m, provided the antennas were reasonably elevated.
If I have some extra time, I'll take my console out on the lake - will be interesting to see how far I get over water.
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Okay I hope this thread does not get derailed...
I'm putting this nicely.....Let's not debate what steps are trivial or not or what the specific steps are to accomplish a given configuration.
I think it is a solid point that the minute many people hear the word Linux they dismiss it. They need to install Linux and deal with maintaining a Linux system. Just dealing with the command prompt is foreign to a lot of people....whether they cut and paste or what not.
Linux = Not Easy....period. The End.
One line. Just one line.
wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/acuparse/installer/master/install.sh && sudo sh install.sh | tee ~/acuparse.log
Yes but you have to install and maintain a Linux system. Most people don't even know how to install Windows. They use what came loaded on their computer.
Installation of Linux is very painless these days. Especially for things like a Pi that grade-school kids put together.
Annnnnnnnnnnndddddd so true.
+1
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I think it is a solid point that the minute many people hear the word Linux they dismiss it. They need to install Linux and deal with maintaining a Linux system. Just dealing with the command prompt is foreign to a lot of people....whether they cut and paste or what not.
Linux = Not Easy....period. The End.
I'm 100% with galfert on this. A small proportion of AWS users are tech savvy enough not to be challenged at all by the idea of running Linux. And personally I agree completely that once you dip your toe in the Linux water it's not tricky at all to get a working system up and running on a Pi or whatever.
But the substantial majority would just react against the idea of running an alien operating system like Linux and wouldn't even entertain the idea. So many users want a turnkey data-handling system with an absolute minimum of set-up challenges and unfamiliarity - they can struggle enough with Windows, let alone Linux.
I think the misjudgement that some contributors are making is to assume that their own expertise with a range of operating systems extends to the hobbyist weather station user-base in general. It really doesn't IMO.
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Perhaps it would be easier to simply say that this is a comparison of packages offered by various manufacturers, and if something is not part of the package that the manufacturer offers, then it has no place in the comparison. This is really aimed at beginners, not people with skills beyond.
johnd, it's interesting to me you your British customer base seems to not care much about relative humidity. Here in the mid-Atlantic USA, sweltering humidity can make RH and Dew Point data very important to folks.
Rich K.
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I think it is a solid point that the minute many people hear the word Linux they dismiss it. They need to install Linux and deal with maintaining a Linux system. Just dealing with the command prompt is foreign to a lot of people....whether they cut and paste or what not.
Linux = Not Easy....period. The End.
I'm 100% with galfert on this. A small proportion of AWS users are tech savvy enough not to be challenged at all by the idea of running Linux. And personally I agree completely that once you dip your toe in the Linux water it's not tricky at all to get a working system up and running on a Pi or whatever.
But the substantial majority would just react against the idea of running an alien operating system like Linux and wouldn't even entertain the idea. So many users want a turnkey data-handling system with an absolute minimum of set-up challenges and unfamiliarity - they can struggle enough with Windows, let alone Linux.
I think the misjudgement that some contributors are making is to assume that their own expertise with a range of operating systems extends to the hobbyist weather station user-base in general. It really doesn't IMO.
Have you installed one of the mainstream Linux distro lately? Dont confuse UNIX with Linux. I have seen quite a few folks running raspberry pi's without knowing they are running Linux! How? They are buying this canakits with preinstall software (not necessarily this brand just an example) and they follow online instructions to get what they bought it for working. You are assuming Linux is hard. Is not 1988 any more. Linux now days is click and go. Now if you are going to use for a primary desktop and you are a windows person. You are up for a surprise. Running weewx and other type of weather apps in the pi is super simple. Take an account... Allot of the weather enthusiasts are retired folks with time in their hands and the old school come from the ham radio sector.... They are not dumb by no means.
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johnd, it's interesting to me you your British customer base seems to not care much about relative humidity. Here in the mid-Atlantic USA, sweltering humidity can make RH and Dew Point data very important to folks.
Don't forget that the mid-UK latitude is around 55N. It's a predominantly damp climate and RH much below 40-50% is uncommon, while Dew Point much above 20C is also pretty uncommon, though that doesn't stop people complaining about discomfort if the DP rises much above 15-16C. For instance, today is a pretty average, somewhat overcast, July day in southern England - temperature at 1500Z is 21C; DP around 15C (though DP was a degree or two higher earlier).
And, just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that RH/DP is of zero importance here, it's more that wind, rain & temperature seem to be of much greater priority to users than RH or, within limits, pressure.
What might happen in the years to come about RH perception is a different matter of course, though it's not impossible that if the North Atlantic Drift (as distinct from the Gulf Stream) should switch off - as some speculate might happen - then the UK could conceivably even cool off a little relatively, at least for a limited period until overall warming overcomes it again.
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https://www.zdnet.com/pictures/10-super-sweet-laptops-that-come-with-linux-pre-installed/9/
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Have you installed one of the mainstream Linux distro lately? Dont confuse UNIX with Linux.
Please, this isn't my perception - I'm quite happy using a Pi for instance. (In fact you've just prompted me to check my CumulusMX/Pi0W dashboard across my LAN.) But I'm just trying to reflect what in my experience the typical newbie customer is likely to think. And yes I agree that radio hams are of course pretty computer literate and open-minded (at least in an IT sense :shock:). But, again IME, they're only 5-10% of the general-interest/hobbyist market.
Where I do agree more is that if a Linux system can be sold as a turnkey solution then it's likely to access a larger slice of the general-interest market. But it does need to be backed up by good instructions/documentation and support, both of which add to the cost of course. The Pi is quite an attractive platform for this because the manufacturer/dealer could in principle just sell a suitably configured SD card just leaving the user a minimal amount of initial set-up to do, though I don't see many examples of this actually happening.
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Being a little bit nitpicky but the Atlas display is a TFT LCD display. TFT = touch screen
The Atlas display may well have a touch screen, but TFT == Thin Film Transistor technology. See, for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film-transistor_liquid-crystal_display.
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Being a little bit nitpicky but the Atlas display is a TFT LCD display. TFT = touch screen
The Atlas display may well have a touch screen, but TFT == Thin Film Transistor technology. See, for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film-transistor_liquid-crystal_display (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film-transistor_liquid-crystal_display).
I know that, it was clumsy writing. I shorten what I was trying to say.
A TFT touch screen is a combination device that includes a TFT LCD display and a touch technology overlay on the screen.
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I have the vantage vue and still runs as good as when they first came out is when I got mine.
The only issue I had once was the rain gauge, but a clean soon fixed that. The only time I look at it to maintain it is when its battery change time and still happy with it.
I did recently get an ambient ws 2029 and love the screen.
Miles better than the vue screen which looks something out of the 80's techology.
My ambient clone is as accurate of my vantage vue and feel its projected forecasting is better as the barometer seems to react quicker to air pressure differinces.
I calibrated my ambient to my Davis air pressure readings as I know that's pretty much correct.
On weather underground my ambient clone accuracy is as good as any.
I use it to go online as was cheaper than getting my Davis online.
I have the USB data logger which works fine but sick of having to tether it up to PC to get online or run weather link,? Etc.
The ambient is a much better solution and as has been said they dont sell the ambient stations here and the clone is pretty much the same as the ws 2029 and was cheaper.
I believe ambient are made in the same factory anyway with slight twinks.
I am running it though ecowitt.net also and love how I dont have to have it tethered to my computer like Davis unless I get their wifi addon, Which I'd extra cost and more expensive to get than my ambient clone.
I think when my Davis finally craps out I wont bother replacing it as my ambient clone gives as good weather stats and pretty much neck and neck with my Davis.
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I did recently get an ambient ws 2029 and love the screen.
Again with the bogus model number. Did you not read my other post?
Miles better than the vue screen which looks something out of the 80's techology.
If you think your new screen looks good you should check out the Ecowitt HP2551 / Ambient WS-2000. It does not have the limited viewing angles. You can get just the display as a worthy upgrade.
My ambient clone is as accurate of my vantage vue and feel its projected forecasting is better as the barometer seems to react quicker to air pressure differinces.
I calibrated my ambient to my Davis air pressure readings as I know that's pretty much correct.
On weather underground my ambient clone accuracy is as good as any.
I'm a very happy Ambient customer too but some of your claims are not based on reality. Your perceived barometric precision is a by product of how the Fine Offset sensor used works with actually less accuracy. What you perceive as greater accuracy is actually the sensor being unsure of itself and vacilating between readings. The Fine Offset sensor also may be reporting with a shorter reporting period during these less accurate readings. Davis barometric accuracy is ±0.03 inHg and Fine Offset clones are ±0.08 inHg. The Fine Offset clone is still great but it's no Davis.
I use it to go online as was cheaper than getting my Davis online.
I have the USB data logger which works fine but sick of having to tether it up to PC to get online or run weather link,? Etc.
You don't have to stick the Davis USB logger in your PC. You could use a Raspberry Pi. Much more convenient and way cheaper than having gotten a Fine Offset clone. Then you could even send data with that Pi to way more places than the Fine Offset clone, to places like CWOP, AWEKAS, PWSweather, Windy, and many more including to your own website. The Fine Offset station can do this too but only by adding hardware/software.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying you shouldn't be happy with your purchase, but rather just know that there are Pros and Cons no matter what you choose. Which is the purpose of why I started this thread. I didn't start it to say any one is better than the other. The purpose was to identify and inform of the shortcomings of all the current options. This way people can be informed and decide what they value more all the while realizing that there are things that they are giving up.
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I Have an old "F" series vantage vue, which is dying on its windy bits ;-) The anemometer broke in half and is glued back together with a nail and PU glue. The cups (despite lubricating them) wont register over 34.5mph, and the supercap fails halfway through the night now.
I did have to replace the Hum sensor a few years back and I'm fairly certain it is starting to fail again. I run an early type of logger that Belfrey made that has been superb - and still going strong.
Davis build a really good, robust fairly reliable unit. It is (was) very accurate compared to two local professional stations.
However, I am reluctant to buy another davis.
Why?
The console would have looked old in 1976 and hasnt changed with modern times. I VERY strongly object to having to pay a fortune for a proper logger/internet access. (yes I know I could keep my existing one and current console), but at 9 years old how much longer does it have??)
I feel Davis charge over the top for goods that lets be honest are years and years old and have barely changed and must have paid for them selves many times over).
Cost of spares very expensive especially here in UK.
They do not seem to have any interaction or communication with their userbase at all, and indeed almost seem to take them for granted. They seem to have taken their eye off the ball. (weather the new ownship will make a difference remains to be seen).
Then I look at Ecowitt. A new company. Yes they are dealing with Fine offset, which quality wise may not be the best. BUT they are listening to users, working with them on forums, happy to make improvements and additions, will ship anywhere in the world and are creeping up fast behind Davis especially with their new seperates unit. MUCH cheaper than Davis. If it lasts 5 years I would still have saved money if I had to buy another one! Plus, they are interent enabled, loggers etc etc.
Woody
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For me, one of the most important comparisons is stated accuracy.
What are you measuring accuracy to though? Your station may not reflect your countries offical temps; rain, etc and a station 1 mile away can report differently than yours.
I know where I live at 6km away from me the temps and rain very by quite a bit.
The only real way to gauge accuracy if your station is manually. Manual rain gauge and a standard liquid or mercury thermometer.
So how do you gauge accuracy? As your going to be different to someone 5 miles away..
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For me, one of the most important comparisons is stated accuracy.
What are you measuring accuracy to though?
I'm sure the reference was to comparing the spec sheet stated accuracy of one brand/model to another. Knowing to what degree of accuracy your equipment will perform elevates the level of trust in the data after calibration. That said a broken sensor is a broken sensor. But usually when a sensor fails it is often obvious.
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I'm sure the reference was to comparing the spec sheet stated accuracy of one brand/model to another.
The problem is that the spec sheets typically show only intrinsic sensor accuracy, ie how the sensor element would perform in a lab environment. Just to take one example, what's important for temperature accuracy is how well the sensor element performs in its radiation shield under different insolation values and different wind speeds. If a cheaper station has a poorly performing shield then the values it measure are also going to be less accurate even if the two are fitted with identical T/H sensor with identical intrinsic accuracy.
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I still don't see how any of this is relevant.
I'm talking about comparing spec sheet to spec sheet in order to choose a better performing system. Spec sheet to spec sheet were all tests done in likely equal lab environments.
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I still don't see how any of this is relevant.
It is when one buys a PWS with a "spec" that's acceptable to the buyer only to get it properly sat and then realize the shield it's inside of ain't worth a damn, then it's relevant.
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I still don't see how any of this is relevant.
It is when one buys a PWS with a "spec" that's acceptable to the buyer only to get it properly sat and then realize the shield it's inside of ain't worth a damn, then it's relevant.
Still I'm talking about station manufacturer's spec sheet, not sensor manufacturer's spec sheet.
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I still don't see how any of this is relevant.
It is when one buys a PWS with a "spec" that's acceptable to the buyer only to get it properly sat and then realize the shield it's inside of ain't worth a damn, then it's relevant.
Still I'm talking about station manufacturer's spec sheet, not sensor manufacturer's spec sheet.
What the hell good is the best sensor in the world if it's not properly protected...you're not buying a sensor, you're buying a PWS. I do know that Davis does differentiate between sensor spec and inside the radiation shield spec with the VP2, aspirated and passive. How about the others? Is it merely a sensor spec or in the field spec? I'm betting the former because a lot of shields would make the sensor spec meaningless and far less attractive to the potential buyer.
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From reviewing Ambient and Davis the specs from the manufacturer are different than from the sensor manufacturers (this is good). Not sure about Acurite but I would suspect that they do their own specifications too.
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Sensirion states the SHT31 at 0.2C temp accuracy, Davis states 0.3C. This quote is straight from Davis about the added error from the shield:
Outside temperature accuracy is based on the temperature sensor itself and not on the sensor and the passive shielding together. The solar radiation induced error for standard radiation shield: +4F (2C) at solar noon; for fan aspirated radiation shield: +0.6F (0.3C) at solar noon (insolation = 1040 W/m2, avg. wind speed 2 mph (1 m/s), reference: RM Young Model 43408 Fan-Aspirated Radiation Shield)
Not saying there isn't, but I know of no one else who'll state this, at least at this level.
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Not saying there isn't, but I know of no one else who'll state this, at least at this level.
Other station manufacturers do it too, but I agree with you, definitely not at the level of detail that Davis does.
If I pull up Fine Offset specs (given in metric) you can see that they are different than what Sensirion publishes for the SHT30. For example Sensirion says SHT30 humidity is accurate to +-2% and Fine Offset says it is +-5%. Granted the range is different for those stated accuracies. But still Sensirion says worst case is +-4% for the full range and FineOffset says its +-5%. My point is there is clearly different specs than from the sensor manufacturer.
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Not saying there isn't, but I know of no one else who'll state this, at least at this level.
For example Sensirion says SHT30 humidity is accurate to +-2% and Fine Offset says it is +-5%.
Then that would be a direct relation to the error of the shield temperature wise, because a shield doesn't provide insolation protection from the humidity.
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From reviewing Ambient and Davis the specs from the manufacturer are different than from the sensor manufacturers (this is good).
From what I recall, the Davis T/H specs are identical to the Sensirion ones - this is exactly what I meant by the specs relating only to the intrinsic sensor specs. Of course there have been at least 3 different T/H sensors used by Davis in the recent past, so important to try (not always easy) to check that the Davis specs relate to a particular T/H sensor type. And that's for Davis which in general has pretty good documentation - I suspect that other cheaper makes don't even go that far.
AFAIK, Davis don't release operational specs, but trial results are available from eg the Stephen Burt reviews or eg the WMO (I think it was) report on shield performance. But TBH the specs are really a minefield IMO. For instance, T/H specs are quoted ±a value for accuracy but without saying what that ± value represents. In statistical terms it really ought to represent SEM of mean readings (or some such statistic) from a set of stations selected at random from production, but I bet it doesn't. But without some definition of the nature of the accuracy spec it starts to become less meaningful.
Without doubt, what we really need is a definitive long-term test site that is well-instrumented with high-end sensors to provide genuinely accurate reference readings against which test stations can be evaluated over eg 12-month periods.
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From reviewing Ambient and Davis the specs from the manufacturer are different than from the sensor manufacturers (this is good).
Without doubt, what we really need is a definitive long-term test site that is well-instrumented with high-end sensors to provide genuinely accurate reference readings against which test stations can be evaluated over eg 12-month periods.
Just as soon as you pay for it.... ;)
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Just as soon as you pay for it.... ;)
Not out of the question, but it would need to be somewhere near me - maybe you could put in a good word with your guys at Lakenheath (or Mildenhall, though that seems to be closing unless there's a change of mind) and let us use a bit of their land. It's the practicalities of organising it that are the main problem.
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Just as soon as you pay for it.... ;)
Not out of the question, but it would need to be somewhere near me - maybe you could put in a good word with your guys at Lakenheath (or Mildenhall, though that seems to be closing unless there's a change of mind) and let us use a bit of their land. It's the practicalities of organising it that are the main problem.
At least as far as the VP2, Blue Hill Observatory outside of Boston, MA has pretty much taken care of organizing it and providing the data for probably at least 10 years with a co-located VP2 and ASOS. The data should all be on CWOP and Mesowest ... The Blue Hill, MA (East Milton, MA) ASOS is KMQE and the VP2 is CW2236.
https://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/search?site=kmqe&Get+information=Get+information
https://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C2236
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How well the VP2 has been maintained and which T/H sensor version they were using at various times would be potential issues. But for someone with the time, desire and know how, there should be a wealth of data available at that particular site.
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I've updated the OP with a note that Ecowitt will soon release a new sensor with the SHT35 chip sensor. There will be an indoor and outdoor version.
WH32-EP outdoor
WH31-EP indoor