Author Topic: Barometers - why calibrate them?  (Read 2729 times)

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Offline gszlag

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Barometers - why calibrate them?
« on: February 08, 2025, 07:34:06 AM »
*"So explain for everyone here why they should be calibrating for pressure."

Digital barometers are unique sensors. They are electro-mechanical sensors that detect extremely tiny changes in atmospheric pressure. When pressure changes, it causes something mechanical to flex or strain ever so slightly. This movement is converted into an electrical voltage which gives us a pressure reading.

Most new owners of personal weather stations assume that all the weather sensors are calibrated out-of-the-box. To a certain degree, they are calibrated but in our case - not by the weather station manufacturer. Many manufacturers assume that their suppliers - the sensor manufacturers, have already calibrated the sensors in their production facilities.

For example,, a barometric sensor might have a specification of +/- 5 mb with a short-term drift "spec" of say, 2.0 mb (first 12 months). For a good quality sensor you should also see a long-term drift "spec" which tells us that the sensor will continue to drift year-after-year (usually at a slower drift rate).

We should always check for asterisks in the footnotes. Sure enough, there's a reference to "pre-solder".

Pre-solder? The guaranteed specs from the sensor manufacturer look pretty good on paper until you actually  solder it to a weather station printed circuit board, The specs are going to change by "x" amount just by soldering the chip to the board. Plus, in addition to the initial solder drift error, the sensor's accuracy is expected to continue to drift by "y" amount in the first 12 months and change by "z" amount every year thereafter.

Some higher-end weather station manufacturers might certify the accuracy of their sensors and present a new owner with say, a NIST or equivalent certification. The certification may come as a costly option. These certifications are time-limited meaning that if you have a sensor certified to be accurate today does not mean that it stays that way forever. It would have to re-certified in an accredited calibration lab on a regular basis.

Ambient/Ecowitt gear has no such certification process, therefore they have a barometer calibration requirement in the manual as one of the first steps in setting up a new weather station.

What the manufacturer is telling us is that we have to calibrate our own barometers.

Even though our weather stations are considered to be hobbyist grade instruments, we should expect a certain level of minimum performance for the money we are spending. However, most hobbyists want some assurance their sensors are working as they should.

With careful calibration, you can greatly improve the accuracy specs of your barometers. We've seen improvements of up to 10-fold!.

Back to the calibration question. Should we calibrate our barometers, or just leave them as is and ignore the manufacturer's recommendations?

Barometers are somewhat fussy sensors, and to keep them working properly means regular checking and occasional adjustment. That's the nature of the beast. A once a year check is sufficient for most users.
Station elevation: 191 m
METAR: CYZE Elevation 189.9 m
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Ambient Weather + Ecowitt
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Offline Gyvate

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2025, 01:17:00 PM »
I have (amongst others) two WS2320 consoles with inbuilt T/RH/P sensors - I recently checked them against a Dracal USB barometer and amazingly after six years the deviation was 0.2 hPa for the local (ABS) pressure.
My WH32B/WN32P is spot on with +/- 0.05 hPa also after five years of use.  =D>
I have to say I am impressed.
WS2350 1.7.0,GW1000 1.7.7,WH2650 WiFi 1.7.7,GW1100 2.3.7,GW1200 1.3.4,GW2000 3.2.1,GW3000 1.0.3,HP2550 2.0.1,5.1.9; HP3500 1.7.2,WS3800 1.3.4, WS3910 1.3.4, WN1910 1.2.4,WN1820/WN1980 1.3.5;
Ecowitt WS90, WS85, WS80, WS68, WS69, WN30, WH31,WH31-EP, WH32,WH32-EP, WH32B/WN32P, WN34D,L,S,  WN35,WH40, WH41[PM2.5], WH45, WH46D, WH51, WH55, WH57, LDS01
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Offline Rover1822

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2025, 01:54:54 PM »
I'm sorry, but, there was a valid question asked , and not really answered.

The basic question , why calibrate?, and the answer supplied, although great, misses the point.

For the average consumer how important is the barometer. I mean I see a lot that want a weather station for various reasons.

In my head I see these as most important:

1. Outdoor temperature
 and now into the maybe's in my thought on rank
2. Humidity
3. Rainfall
4. Wind speed , and other
5. Solar values
6. Barometer

I think , the question , that no one has answered , is why the barometer value important to them?.  Forget the calibration , explain why the value of the barometer is important to them. With the understanding that a lot of people buy the units for the other sensor data. I'm not trying to be a knucklehead , I'm just looking for someone to explain to the consumer on why it is important.  With the assumption that the purchaser is not trying to be a meteorologist.  I mean I have my reasons, but I have not seen the basic question answered


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Offline G.Brown

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2025, 02:11:34 PM »
because you can.

Offline Gyvate

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2025, 02:15:57 PM »
apart from certain people being very air pressure (change ?) sensitive accompanied by physical discomfort (the related pain I don't want to question or relativate), I do not see any high relevance in practical daily live of a private/personal weather station owner.
Physiological effects are:
Low air pressure can cause fluid to evaporate from the body, increasing the risk of dehydration and electrolyte imbalance. High air pressure, on the other hand, can cause fluids to accumulate in the body, leading to swelling and edema.

The sensitivity towards air pressure is as far as I can see more change related than dependant on an absolute value and its exact determination.

Even a badly adjusted ("calibrated") barometer can imho pretty well and sufficiently well show the change in air pressure.

I'm not talking about scuba diving (where the order of magnitude of interest is +/- 5 atmospheres, i.e +/- 5,000 hPa) or aviation.

I asked that question ealier in a few passionately led air pressure discussion:
what is the practical value or need in daily life of having a well calibrated barometer - apart from enjoying that an instrument works nicely.
No answer has come up yet ... I'm still listening to the sounds of silence.

@Rover1822
and I took the liberty to express my being impressed by the unexpected accuracy of the pressure sensors used in the Ecowitt devices  :lol:
- here I was only a slight "off-topicer"
« Last Edit: February 08, 2025, 02:20:54 PM by Gyvate »
WS2350 1.7.0,GW1000 1.7.7,WH2650 WiFi 1.7.7,GW1100 2.3.7,GW1200 1.3.4,GW2000 3.2.1,GW3000 1.0.3,HP2550 2.0.1,5.1.9; HP3500 1.7.2,WS3800 1.3.4, WS3910 1.3.4, WN1910 1.2.4,WN1820/WN1980 1.3.5;
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Offline Prestonsden

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2025, 02:27:13 PM »
The only importance for me regarding barometric pressure is seeing how strong storms become, especially in the winter here in northern New England. I also enjoy looking at the barometric pressure when I go ice fishing and always write down what the pressure was for each ice fishing trip and how well the fishing was on that given day. I've noticed significant changes in the bite rate based on the barometric pressure for that given day. Those are my two reasons. However, the question of calibration still stands -there's no significant difference, in my opinion, as you can still observe if it's steady pressure or climbing/falling pressure. With that being said, my best fishing days historically are when the relative pressure has been steady between 30.00inHg and 30.20inHg. But those values could easily be swapped with my absolute pressure in my graphs for fishing.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2025, 02:38:56 PM by Prestonsden »
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Offline Rover1822

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2025, 02:27:37 PM »
Yes, and I have seen/read the posts.

But what I am looking for is a basic.
 reason (excluding those that are subject to atmospheric conditions),  why is this topic so important? for the average consumer.

The way it appears , is , well, like you must calibrate for pressure. And there is a lot of time spent on the topic. I get it that some are consumed with perfection. But for the average consumer, what real benefit is there?

Heheh, I'm not trying to stir up a wasps nest, but , just have someone explain, why this is important to the average consumer.
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Offline Rover1822

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2025, 02:34:20 PM »
I mean I do get it , there are those of for whom it is  important. But the constant barrage of you must calibrate your pressure, and then , all the various parameters, for the average user, that cares naught , what is the impact to them?

I mean, I can see valid answers , like, well if you publish your data, well, it may be important to someone else. I'm just looking for someone to spell it all out.
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Offline Gyvate

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2025, 03:02:11 PM »
Heheh, I'm not trying to stir up a wasps nest, but , just have someone explain, why this is important to the average consumer.
No worries - no wasp nests around ... ;)
only hornet nests ...  :lol: \:D/
WS2350 1.7.0,GW1000 1.7.7,WH2650 WiFi 1.7.7,GW1100 2.3.7,GW1200 1.3.4,GW2000 3.2.1,GW3000 1.0.3,HP2550 2.0.1,5.1.9; HP3500 1.7.2,WS3800 1.3.4, WS3910 1.3.4, WN1910 1.2.4,WN1820/WN1980 1.3.5;
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Offline setekman

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2025, 03:31:20 PM »
I'll answer the topic title with a question.
Thermometers - why calibrate them

Offline Wooks61

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2025, 05:24:52 PM »
OK.
I just googled "Why should I calibrate my barometer"
Not surprisingly close to the top of the results was a link to this very page.

However I also found this snippet of inspiration:
"Knowing the barometric pressure can actually influence how long you should bake something in different areas of the country. It’s what forms those suggested times and the “high altitude” instructions on the back of the box."

I never would have known if I hadn't read this thread.
Thank you gzlag  :grin:

Offline kheller2

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2025, 06:38:50 PM »
I might ask what is the real day to day need to know the direction of wind?  Sure the speed of it, but why the direction? 
Ambient Consoles: WS-2000, WS-1900, WS-1200, WS-2902C, WS-3000-X3, WS-0900-IP(observerIP), WS-1001-WIFI
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Offline gszlag

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2025, 08:05:45 PM »
OK.
I just googled "Why should I calibrate my barometer"
Not surprisingly close to the top of the results was a link to this very page.

However I also found this snippet of inspiration:
"Knowing the barometric pressure can actually influence how long you should bake something in different areas of the country. It’s what forms those suggested times and the “high altitude” instructions on the back of the box."

I never would have known if I hadn't read this thread.
Thank you gzlag  :grin:

There you go, a practical, non-weather use for a barometer. I just knew there must be a reason why I bought a weather station! :)
Station elevation: 191 m
METAR: CYZE Elevation 189.9 m
---
The barometer wiki has a new home!
 www.barometer-wiki.ca/barometer
---
Personal weather stations (pws):
Ambient Weather + Ecowitt
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Stratus Rain Gauge (manual)
Starpath USB baro (barometer)
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Software: WeeWX,  Cumulus MX
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Offline Rocketman

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2025, 08:16:31 PM »
I might ask what is the real day to day need to know the direction of wind?  Sure the speed of it, but why the direction?

In New Zealand Kite fishermen need to know the wind direction ( offshore wind direction ) so they can launch their fishing kites and catch huge snapper and plenty of salt water species .
We sell a good number of GEL batteries for fishing Torpedos for that purpose when the wind isn't playing ball .
I personally have caught 3 huge Snapper ( 23, 24 & 26 lbs ) on the last three hooks of my Kite longline
« Last Edit: February 08, 2025, 08:25:52 PM by Rocketman »
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Offline G.Brown

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2025, 04:40:18 AM »
when Wiggins was going for the hour record on his bike - the barometric pressure was higher on the day than they would have liked. More air to push against as far as I understood it.
So if they had the choice they would have chosen a day with low pressure.

Offline Gyvate

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2025, 06:35:45 AM »
yep, and if the temperature had been low, maybe close to zero or below, the resistance would even have been bigger ... :lol:
so, low pressure/high temperature should be the choice for winning
(and high pressure/low temperature for training  8-))
WS2350 1.7.0,GW1000 1.7.7,WH2650 WiFi 1.7.7,GW1100 2.3.7,GW1200 1.3.4,GW2000 3.2.1,GW3000 1.0.3,HP2550 2.0.1,5.1.9; HP3500 1.7.2,WS3800 1.3.4, WS3910 1.3.4, WN1910 1.2.4,WN1820/WN1980 1.3.5;
Ecowitt WS90, WS85, WS80, WS68, WS69, WN30, WH31,WH31-EP, WH32,WH32-EP, WH32B/WN32P, WN34D,L,S,  WN35,WH40, WH41[PM2.5], WH45, WH46D, WH51, WH55, WH57, LDS01
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Offline gszlag

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2025, 08:27:30 AM »
I have (amongst others) two WS2320 consoles with inbuilt T/RH/P sensors - I recently checked them against a Dracal USB barometer and amazingly after six years the deviation was 0.2 hPa for the local (ABS) pressure.
My WH32B/WN32P is spot on with +/- 0.05 hPa also after five years of use.  =D>
I have to say I am impressed.
No gloating please : My GW1000 had an initial ABS offset = 0.
In your case, your barometer was -5 hPa 5 years ago and just now drifted by +/- 0 :)
Welcome to the club. Congrats on your first calibration. No more airports!
And yes, an ABS offset= 0 still counts as a calibration.
Station elevation: 191 m
METAR: CYZE Elevation 189.9 m
---
The barometer wiki has a new home!
 www.barometer-wiki.ca/barometer
---
Personal weather stations (pws):
Ambient Weather + Ecowitt
---
Stratus Rain Gauge (manual)
Starpath USB baro (barometer)
---
Software: WeeWX,  Cumulus MX
---

Offline Rover1822

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2025, 01:41:28 PM »
Grin, so when someone asks this question...
Let's start a list, with the preamble that it affects many aspects of life

just my thoughts, no  ranking

- Pressure for cooking was a good one
- Health conditions (I follow that one) , especially sinus headache people, we can see trends
- Storm severity and expectations (Been there yes, important, especially for us in hurricane prone areas)
- Competitive sports (never thought about that one, but very valid)
- Because you can (Yeah I see that one too)
- It also affects other calculations for weather predictions (I think this was missed)

I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I asked the question, but it is explaining it to someone else why they should. So , see the above list, and add as needed.

On those that jumped in on why why wind direction and temp are important, well different post. For me wind direction as a sailor, and also having a wind turbine, important. Temp, well we really don't have to explain






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Offline gszlag

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2025, 02:49:53 PM »
I am not sure if I can "change everyday lives" using a barometer, but a search engine's search reveals a surprising amount of practical and commercial uses for barometers or barometric sensors in general.

To start, here are some articles about every day and practical uses of a barometer:. There are many commercial, business and scientific applications as well. Too many to list here, and outside my main interest of measuring the weather.

An easy read and a favourite is the "A Weather Eye" article.  An entertaining read as well.. You can start with that one if you like.

How do Calibration Applications Fit in our Everyday Life?
https://blog.mensor.com/blog/everyday-applications-of-calibration

H.M.S Beagle, Captain Robert Fitzroy and Charles Darwin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_FitzRoy

A Weather Eye
https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/a-weather-eye

Why buy a barometer? - David Burch
https://www.starpath.com/catalog/accessories/why_buy_a_barometer.htm

Weather forecasting is of course the most important. The whole history of "weather forecasting" revolves around the barometer.

Maybe we should go back in time and get some historical perspective regarding the first important use of a barometer and see how they were used and what impact the barometer would have had on their daily lives way back then.

Most everyday folks would have no idea that the barometer was directly responsible for creating the term "weather forecasting" in the mid-1800's. Back then, much of the world's economy was based on transport - moving goods from point "A" to point "B". The barometer was invented in the 1640's and at that time sailing ships were the primary engine of growth for the world's economies. Transporting goods by ship was a big deal back then and still is a big deal today.

The existence of sailing ships hundreds of years ago provides us with a clue. In order for a sailing ship to work, it has to have wind. And where does wind come from? I'll leave it to the reader to read the meteorological pages about highs and lows and pressure gradients that create wind. Sailors quickly figured out that wind causes waves and big wind causes big waves- a deadly combination that has sunk many a great ship along with their crew. It's not only a matter of always avoiding wind but finding wind when none is to be found. No wind - no sail.

Once barometers came into being in the 1600's, sailors found out their was a relationship between wind and gale. Do read the barometer.story of Charles Darwin and HMS "Beagle".referenced in the barometer wiki. This is the first practical use of a barometer that I could find.

Back to modern times and just putting it out there - but perhaps barometer's role for hurricane/cyclone tracking might be useful. Needless to say, barometers play a significant safety-critical role.

Tens of millions of people are walking around with barometers in their pockets - maybe someday, all that data might be useful for weather or storm tracking?

Do barometers affect our daily lives by saving them? Yes, of course!, but very few people would know or care to know that pressure sensors probably save many thousands of lives every day.

Outside of weather purposes, the first thing that comes to mind, is that a calibrated pressure sensor will keep you alive in the operating room and later - in the ICU as you are being "ventilated". These things need to be carefully calibrated. Too much air, too little - not a good thing. So yes, barometers can be useful for more things other than weather.

Planes - there are lots of them up in the air at any one time, and keeping them from crashing into the ground or into each other is something that requires a calibrated barometer. Therefore, these flying barometers play an important safety-critical role in aviation. For altimeters to work within a certain safety margin, they must be calibrated. Plus, too, if the cabin in your aircraft suddenly loses pressure, a calibrated pressure sensor may come in handy when you are looking for that oxygen mask. There are also on-engine pressure sensors too.

I think most of us want to extract the best possible performance from their weather equipment - at any price level. And that means verifying that you are receiving the performance that you are paying for. Or obtaining better performance than what the manufacturer has designed.

So checking and verifying sensor performance (calibration) is part of the enjoyment for many of us in this forum but, I suppose, not for all.  I guess it is a matter of how much you want to get out of our hobby.  So, will the world stop rotating if our sensors aren't set up properly, and we are blissfully unaware that we are uploading bad data to our national weather service? Where is all that barometric data going, how will it be used?  Actually I don't know the answer to that question but remember what your Dad said: If you are going to do something - do it well!

What you do with them (or to them). is entirely up to you. Although I do have a personal favourite sensor to write about (OK - I am self-confessed meteorological anorak),

I am sensor agnostic. I don't dislike any weather sensor  - I like them all. To me, the point of buying a weather station is to measure the weather. If you are going to measure something accurately, then you need to look after your stuff.
--
Station elevation: 191 m
METAR: CYZE Elevation 189.9 m
---
The barometer wiki has a new home!
 www.barometer-wiki.ca/barometer
---
Personal weather stations (pws):
Ambient Weather + Ecowitt
---
Stratus Rain Gauge (manual)
Starpath USB baro (barometer)
---
Software: WeeWX,  Cumulus MX
---

Offline Rover1822

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2025, 04:48:04 PM »
although I like your response... I was just trying to come up with a simple bullet point list for the average consumer.




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Offline jcjrogers

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2025, 04:50:31 PM »
Here’s a use for you—

As my dog has gotten older (she is 12), she has become more and more afraid of thunderstorms (they didn’t bother her at all when she was young). We started noticing 2-3 months ago that during rain events, she began acting like there was thunder when there was none or at least none that we were hearing. Initially, I figured her fear was triggered by thunder so far away we couldn’t hear it, then when there were rain events with no thunder/lightning near us, I thought it might be the smell of rain that was triggering her. Yesterday, we had extremely warm and very overcast conditions associated with some light rain in the area, which caused nothing more than a few damp spots on the concrete and wasn’t enough to register in my weather station gauge. From what I saw on radar and watching the news, there was no thunder/lightning associated with the cold front that was moving through. For probably two hours before the front moved through, my dog acted as if there was thunder in the area. My wife and I were sitting in our screened outdoor room when the front came through, and we immediately noticed the change in wind direction and speed, and we felt the temperature dropping (I confirmed all this looking at my weather station information on AWN). Within minutes after the front moved through, my dog acted normal. I’m going to do some investigation, but my hypothesis is, my dog recognizes pressure level or maybe pressure changes and equates them with storms.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2025, 05:10:24 PM by jcjrogers »
Ambient:
WS 5000 (WS-5000-Array, WS-5000-Rain, WH32B, WS-5000-Console)
WH31E (Outdoor Thermo-Hygrometer sensor)
WH51RF (Refrigerator/Freezer Sensor)
Starpath:
USB baro (barometer)

Offline jcjrogers

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Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2025, 04:53:26 PM »
although I like your response... I was just trying to come up with a simple bullet point list for the average consumer.

Sorry, your request for bullet points posted while I was writing my response. I guess my bullet point would be, "To predict my dog's behavior."
Ambient:
WS 5000 (WS-5000-Array, WS-5000-Rain, WH32B, WS-5000-Console)
WH31E (Outdoor Thermo-Hygrometer sensor)
WH51RF (Refrigerator/Freezer Sensor)
Starpath:
USB baro (barometer)

Offline Rover1822

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    • Mini Wind and Solar Data project
Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2025, 04:57:55 PM »
naw, tis cool, I have greyhounds, so a valid addition, yes, they are affected
Equipment: (I no longer list all, lets just say a bunch)
Ambient: (Various)
EcoWitt: (Various)
Personal Sites: Weather Cam

Offline jcjrogers

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  • Posts: 33
Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2025, 05:07:24 PM »
naw, tis cool, I have greyhounds, so a valid addition, yes, they are affected

My dog is a Vizsla.
Ambient:
WS 5000 (WS-5000-Array, WS-5000-Rain, WH32B, WS-5000-Console)
WH31E (Outdoor Thermo-Hygrometer sensor)
WH51RF (Refrigerator/Freezer Sensor)
Starpath:
USB baro (barometer)

Offline Wooks61

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  • Posts: 191
Re: Barometers - why calibrate them?
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2025, 05:41:13 PM »
Here’s a use for you—

As my dog has gotten older (she is 12), she has become more and more afraid of thunderstorms (they didn’t bother her at all when she was young). We started noticing 2-3 months ago that during rain events, she began acting like there was thunder when there was none or at least none that we were hearing. Initially, I figured her fear was triggered by thunder so far away we couldn’t hear it, then when there were rain events with no thunder/lightning near us, I thought it might be the smell of rain that was triggering her. Yesterday, we had extremely warm and very overcast conditions associated with some light rain in the area, which caused nothing more than a few damp spots on the concrete and wasn’t enough to register in my weather station gauge. From what I saw on radar and watching the news, there was no thunder/lightning associated with the cold front that was moving through. For probably two hours before the front moved through, my dog acted as if there was thunder in the area. My wife and I were sitting in our screened outdoor room when the front came through, and we immediately noticed the change in wind direction and speed, and we felt the temperature dropping (I confirmed all this looking at my weather station information on AWN). Within minutes after the front moved through, my dog acted normal. I’m going to do some investigation, but my hypothesis is, my dog recognizes pressure level or maybe pressure changes and equates them with storms.

This may be of interest:
https://www.canineevolutions.com/news/BarkingBarometers