Topic: WH45 Not Registering.

[Phil23]

Hi All,

Just after suggestions here.

Received a WH45 & Wh51 Today. Batteries in & Away I went.
The HP2551 Console picked both up immediately, but the GW1000 only found the WH51.

My GW1000 is in my front office, so at a bit of a distance, but it still receives all the others.
The WS65, WH41, WH43 & WH51.

Moved the GW1000 to the Kitchen to be closer & brought the WH45 inside within a metre or so, but it's still not registering.

Any ideas on what the issues is?


Cheers

Phil.

PS, the GW1000 is on Firmware V1.6.8.

[eliteweathernz]

Check the frequency of the wh45 vs the rest of your sensors. You might find the frequency is different and that will be the issue.

[Mandrake]

Are you powering the WH45 by battery or USB?
The reason I ask is that if Battery then the transmit of data only occurs every 10 minutes and so you would need to wait a while to see it registered.

On the GW1000 you need to go into the Sensor ID page (via the WSview app on a phone) and see what is being reported. Its possible that you have the wh45 set to disabled here.
If not you can click on re-register and see if it picks up and registers

[Phil23]

Batteries installed but USB power also connected.

Power Cycled it but removing the batteries & then went out for a bit & the GW had it registered when I got back.
Maybe it was just a timing thing.

[Autofill]

Just curious, I ordered a WH45 and should be coming in next week. I'm going to be installing it somewhere in my HVAC system of my home with a 30 foot USB cable (with micro USB-B on one end) for power.

Question.

1. Do you need the batteries installed even if you plan on powering it by a USB cable for 24/7?
2. If so, I assume its regular non-rechargeable batteries that is required.

[Rover1822]

Just curious, I ordered a WH45 and should be coming in next week. I'm going to be installing it somewhere in my HVAC system of my home with a 30 foot USB cable (with micro USB-B on one end) for power.

Question.

1. Do you need the batteries installed even if you plan on powering it by a USB cable for 24/7?
2. If so, I assume its regular non-rechargeable batteries that is required.

Although 30 feet seems like nothing , and is only delivering power in this instance, that is a pretty decent run should be OK. For batteries , look at the manual, although I believe you can use , or should use non rechargeable in that unit as the battery is a "back up" as opposed to a power source all the time. Unlike the exterior units where everything is powered by the battery, and rechargeable is required.

[kheller2]

Be careful there.  One should not run electrical devices inside HVAC conduit.  That's how fires start.... lots of AIR for a spark, or batteries etc.  The probe should be the only thing in the conduit. 

Having said that, I will not mention the ethernet cables I have running through mine.

But I did not run line voltage through them for my ceiling lights.

YMMV   

[Phil23]

Although 30 feet seems like nothing , and is only delivering power in this instance, that is a pretty decent run should be OK.

I'd be a bit dubious about that from the experiences I've had here with a dozen or more ESP & 433Meg devices throughout the place.
They like a good solid 3.3/5.0 Volt supply that doesn't dip under transmit conditions when their current draw spikes.

I've found even a poor quality / thin USB cable 1m long can stop an ESP working.

One solution is adding a couple of Capacitors close to the device, 100uF Electro & a 100nF Ceramic in parallel is my usual fix.

[Autofill]

This is a good and important point you raise. I should be more clear though, it won't be completely or entirely inside the HVAC system, the unit will be off to the "side" and maybe a few inches if wire in the HVAC, and not the 30ft. The 30 ft is because the location of a USB port to where I want to put the unit, is that long. I'd like to place in the return air part, before the filter, or just near a cold-air intake on on the main floor of my house. Let me try to explain with a graphic.

According the manufacture, not Ecowitt, but Sensirion, specially the SCD30 and SPS30 sensors, the sensors inside the unit are approved for HVAC use, but it should be placed in a certain way as shown here.

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Now, the risk for fire is not zero because Ecowitt does add there own PCB and power supply, etc. However, if the unit basically aside, like in the middle scenario in the above graphic, and in its own little box it would be mostly decoupled from the main HVAC system.

With regards to the voltage drop for a 30 ft cable, this is something I will have to find out soon.

Be careful there.  One should not run electrical devices inside HVAC conduit.  That's how fires start.... lots of AIR for a spark, or batteries etc.  The probe should be the only thing in the conduit. 

Having said that, I will not mention the ethernet cables I have running through mine.

But I did not run line voltage through them for my ceiling lights.

YMMV   

[Rover1822]

Honestly, I would not be too worried about an in duct installation and the 5 volt USB supply. Now it may not be to code just because it is an energized wire, but the current draw is so low from the device, and the maximum from the supply let's say is around 2A in the case of a short. As far as the ability to run the unit with a 30 foot run , I'm going to guess you will test that all out in a dry run. I think it will more than likely work for a couple of reasons, but the first is that off a 5 Volt line there probably is a v reg (or a diode)  to drop it down to around 3V , at the current draw levels you should be fine to still make the drop out of even a linear regulator. We know the unit can operate at 3V because of the batteries, and probably less than that.

[Autofill]

thanks, Rover.

 Good points. I'm going run the unit on the 30 Ft USB for a bit, before I start cutting holes into my HVAC ducts. I can report back later next week to see how well the unit runs.

So, does the battery need to be inserted for the USB power to work? I know that the WH41 does need batteries for the USB power to work.

If the WH45 does need battery at all time, to further limit the risk, I can probably remove the batteries and replace them with two copper wires to each battery terminal (+ and -), so that what it can complete the circuit and thus power the USB only.

[Rover1822]

I don't know if  the batteries are required (I find it hard to imagine they are) . But that is an easy test when you get the unit. I have the outdoor units so I can't compare.

 

[Rover1822]

I can probably remove the batteries and replace them with two copper wires to each battery terminal (+ and -), so that what it can complete the circuit and thus power the USB only

I would not do that. That just creates a short when the unit is operated normally. I don't have a schematic for the unit, but I think you would run a good chance of destroying the unit, and potentially taking out your USB power supply.

[Rover1822]

All of this is moot, until you , or someone else tells us the batteries are needed.

If the batteries are not needed, no worries. If they are, and you still want to pursue this course without batteries, you would "dummy" the batteries with the appropriate source. Something like a parallel breakout of the 5V lines from the USB, through a regulator or use a diode to drop it down to battery , then connect with correct polarity to the battery terminals. Lets not start discussing this until it might actually be needed.

[Rover1822]

One more thing, do not make your unit placement inaccessible, although not near as frequent as a bucket tilt rain detector, you will more than likely have cause to clean the unit over time.

[Autofill]

Hopefully someone here can confirm the battery part, or I'll find out pretty soon.

It'll be a pretty good accessible place, on the return side of my system as shown here in red, we'll above humidifier.

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I'll probably just cut a hole or slit, maybe 1.5 x 1.5 inches in the return side, which will serve as the input air in to the sensor box. The sensor box, which will house the  WH45 and be open on one side, will then be screwed onto the sheet metal. Something like this...

[Rover1822]

The let us take a look at why no batteries. Assume you drop a couple of quality alkaline batteries in the unit, and you now know, you will have to periodically clean the unit. I mean I have batteries in my thermostats that have been there 5 years. I really expect you will have to clean the unit somewhere in that interval, if not, you may want to anyway. So, expecting that, why not add the batteries?.

[Autofill]

You're right having the batteries in or out is not that critical. As was already mentioned before these things generally low current I doubt they can generate enough heat to cause issues.

 If it requires batteries to work then I'll just keep them in there if not then I'll just keep the batteries out.

[Autofill]

Here's an update on this.

I received the unit a couple of days ago and can comment now on the following

It does NOT require batteries if the USB power is supplied and seems to be working fine with a 30 ft USB cable. A couple of feet of this wire is in my HVAC ducting, while the rest is outside, being fed to a USB outlet on surge/overload protected power bar and an ARC fault protected breaker in my electrical box in the mechanical room.

With regards to installing in my HVAC, I decided not to make an enclosure for the WH45 because its already in an enclosure. The graphic above is for the scenario if you have the bare sensor. As the WH45 comes with its own enclosure with slats, I do not think those figures apply to this case (even though I was the one who brought this up, I changed my mind based on this as I think an second enclosure would not give a true reading of the air around it).

Having said that, I found a perfect location in my HVAC where the top floor, main floor and basement floor cold-air returns all mix and then proceed down to the humidifier, filter and then the blower motor. The unit is right before it hits the humidifier, about 4 ft above it. The location of the sensor will now give me an average of the existing air in my home. The other option is I can put the sensor on the supply side, but I would imagine that air be clean and constant with respect to particulate matter concentrations because that air is conditioned and filtered.

I removed the cover and pre-drilled a small hole in the black plastic base of the WH45 and used a sheet metal screw and screwed the black plastic base to the sheet metal so that the WH45 is secured in my ducting. I then placed the cover back on the base with the USB cord plugged in.

To access the unit, I simply need to remove a cold-air return grill, which is on the main floor, just above my HVAC in the basement, and the unit is within arms reach.

So far, the data seems good. CO2 levels rise and lower, with PM steady so far (<3 for both). Temperature seems to fluctuate by 1.5 degrees, and this I believe is attributed to the cycle I have programed in my thermostat where the HRV (fresh air exchange unit) exchanges the inside air with the outside air for 25 min every hour, and fan recirculation for 10 min every hour so that leaves about 35 minutes every hour where air moves into my ducts and 25 minutes of dead time. This is likely where the temperature increase by 1.5 oC, then drops when the HVAC system turns on. I could probably change the settings to running 24 hrs. a day, at low speed, but that is a seasonal consideration also.

Lets see how this goes...
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