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Weather Station Hardware => Davis Instruments Weather Stations => Topic started by: docbee on November 10, 2012, 07:08:38 PM

Title: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: docbee on November 10, 2012, 07:08:38 PM
In a German weather forum there are reports of a new VP2 firmware (version 3.00) delivered with the newest batch of stations, that inhibit usage of 3rd party data loggers (especially the one from Fjord Tech). I can't confirm, as I don't have a that new VP2 and a version 3.00 is not avail for download.

Does someone in the forum here have one of that 3.00 VP2s and has experienced problems with a non-Davis datalogger?
May be it is just a xmas gift from Davis to their European customers? When true, this looks to me like an interesting approach to save their xmas sales on ambitiously priced accessory ;-) 
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on November 10, 2012, 07:15:57 PM
Would not surprise me.  Nikon has done similar with its latest cameras - you MUST buy a real Nikon battery, not a generic one.  Of course Nikon is three times the price.  There's a neat workaround for it though and given the sheer genius of the guys and gays who figured out the last one I expect them to be able to do the same with fw 3.0
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: docbee on November 10, 2012, 07:38:32 PM
I am with you, that would not last for long. But before I start pointing at Davis I would like to get the facts.
1) Is it true? Is there a new 3.00 firmware?
2) Is it something special for Europe or an update with global reach?
Let's see what this forum can find out.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on November 10, 2012, 07:42:43 PM
Current FW release is 1.9 so it seems highly unlikely to me that the German version  skipped 2.n  My German is limited to pleasantries in the bar with the Frauleins and asking for beer or food.  But post a link to the .DE forum and maybe there are some clues to chase down.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: SlowModem on November 11, 2012, 12:18:51 AM
Would not surprise me.  Nikon has done similar with its latest cameras - you MUST buy a real Nikon battery, not a generic one.  Of course Nikon is three times the price.  There's a neat workaround for it though and given the sheer genius of the guys and gays who figured out the last one I expect them to be able to do the same with fw 3.0


 :-s
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 11, 2012, 03:44:28 AM
There's been no official announcement as yet about a v3 firmware, nor have I seen any VP2 stations with this. I too would expect it to be a v2 firmware and not v3 (though admittedly there have been some unexpected recent decisions about revision numbering, both hardware and software). That said, given that the Vue firmware is already at v2.14, maybe Davis want to avoid any confusion about compatibility issues and so a jump to v3 numbering would remove any possibility of confusion, ie v3 F/W always needs a green dot logger. But this is just speculation on my part.

However, as per other past threads and comments here, there is definitely something afoot regarding logger compatibility with console firmware. Dealers do have a circular explaining the background and some consequences to this change, but it doesn't provide any underlying detail. It will be a global change AFAIK.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: docbee on November 11, 2012, 04:05:25 AM
Here is my source of information (sorry Bushman, nothing about fraeuleins or beer inside): http://www.wetterstationen.info/forum/davis/xbp-datenlogger-inkompatibel/

As the company selling 3rd party loggers (Fjord) is told to have a v3.00 in their lab for inspection it doesnt sound like a false alarm to me. We 'll see. When it is real I expect more v3.00 popping up in other geographies soon.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on November 11, 2012, 09:45:20 AM
Interesting - thanks for the link.  Thank goodness I have a few bottles of Grlosch to help me through the reading.  :)  I wonder what is motivating Davis?  I mean,  is the profit on a logger  really worth POing  customers who buy $500 to $1000 stations??  Of course the straight through homebrew (non-logging) loggers should be fine.  I would at least hope Davis increases the logging capacity of the logger as part of this change.

Frankly, I think Davis should be more worried about someone deciphering their SS hopping and knocking out sensors for 20 bucks. 
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 11, 2012, 10:52:01 AM
I wonder what is motivating Davis?  

You seem to be excluding the possibility that the pending firmware/logger changes may be associated with some new features (that can only be implemented with a significant change in logger design).After all, the current core logger design has been unchanged for the past 10 years plus - it's not altogether surprising that some further evolution may be happening.

NB Grolsch is Dutch lager (at least originally, though I think SAB-Miller now own the brand, so goodness knows where it's actually brewed nowadays - probably at a huge brewery somewhere near you where they brew different brands on different days of the week).
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on November 11, 2012, 11:04:32 AM
Maybe a VP3????
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Cienega32 on November 11, 2012, 01:56:29 PM
I have my VP2 out for a Davis refurb. When it returns, I'll check my firmware version.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on November 11, 2012, 07:23:08 PM
If this comes to pass, I wonder how close to the Magnusson Moss line Davis will go?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 16, 2012, 09:01:03 AM
We've had a new consignment of Davis stock in today. All of the Vues have Rev 3.00 firmware and some of the VP2 consoles. The manufacturing dates were from mid-September on. So all of these will need green-dot loggers (but since these have been shipping for well over a year now, there shouldn't be a problem here).
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on November 16, 2012, 10:39:27 AM
We've had a new consignment of Davis stock in today. All of the Vues have Rev 3.00 firmware and some of the VP2 consoles. The manufacturing dates were from mid-September on. So all of these will need green-dot loggers (but since these have been shipping for well over a year now, there shouldn't be a problem here).

Let me see if I have this figured out:

If I have an older Davis logger, etc.; and
If Davis offers a VP2 console firmware update to Rev 3.x; and
If I install the console firmware update; then
my all-Davis setup would quit working?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 16, 2012, 10:50:23 AM
Let me see if I have this figured out:...

I'm looking for some further clarification out of Davis about this, but yes that's my understanding at present.

I'm guessing that the reason that v3.00 hasn't been uploaded to the website is maybe precisely because of this. In future, maybe there'll be two streams of firmware updates - one for pre-2011 logger stations (which will maybe only increment fairly slowly from here on, ie as per the old VP1 stations) and one for post-2011. But it may be better to hold off speculating until there's some harder information available.

Edit: Actually, what isn't clear - to me at least and without further investigation - is whether the _only_ difference between the new consoles and the previous ones is the firmware. It could be, for instance, that they also have some hardware changes (certainly they have a different Mfg Code format) and that it's the combination of AA consoles and Rev 3.00 F/W that is not compatible with older loggers. Conceivably, loading v3.00 F/W on an older console might be acceptable, but I'm straying into the realms of speculation again. Best to wait for harder information.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on November 16, 2012, 11:07:19 AM

I'm looking for some further clarification out of Davis about this, but yes that's my understanding at present.


That looks to me like a total Davis Support Disaster.

I'm imagining the number of people who do not read or follow warnings, as well as the number of vendors, and private sellers, eBay, etc.,

I suspect that most people who follow this forum will be able to cope.  But that's probably 1% of customers.  Of course, many folks who get messed up will then find this forum and ask for help. 

Much less the scenerios like "My Davis console just broke, and I purchased a new one from Davis, and now my Davis logger won't work...."

[What's the Davis trade-in policy for Davis loggers?]

John, I recognize that this isn't your fault, and you don't have answers - thanks for sharing what you do know.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: d_l on November 16, 2012, 11:48:28 AM
That looks to me like a total Davis Support Disaster.

I would imagine that Davis would incorporate some sort of version checker within the firmware upgrader to prevent this sort of thing.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on November 16, 2012, 12:24:51 PM
That looks to me like a total Davis Support Disaster.

I would imagine that Davis would incorporate some sort of version checker within the firmware upgrader to prevent this sort of thing.

It should be possible to make sure that a "new version logger" is being used to update the firmware.  That doesn't resolve the problem of replacing an old console with a new one (while keeping an old Davis logger), nor related problems of purchasing components from different sources. 

"I just purchased this logger on eBay and it doesn't work with my console.  [Who is at fault - the seller who didn't know? - the buyer who didn't ask?....]

And of course, support problems of "Hey, Davis, why can't I install the latest firmware?"

Obviously, there could be a firmware updater that detects "old logger" and simply just changes the firmware version number without installing the new protective code......

Making things even more complicated and confusing doesn't necessarily reduce support requirements.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: d_l on November 16, 2012, 12:58:38 PM
Making things even more complicated and confusing doesn't necessarily reduce support requirements.

Davis made a major change from VP1 to VP2 and they sell US and foreign frequency equipment. They have the differences well labeled on their web site and their authorized dealers also make customers aware of the differences.

If the new version firmware loggers are firmware incompatible with the older receivers, perhaps Davis will change the electrical connectors on all new equipment.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on November 16, 2012, 01:05:16 PM
OK, (and based on limited information), we have an honest difference of opinion.  I'm saying it's going to be a support "nightmare", and (my interpretation) you are saying it's not going to be a big deal.

I will be happy to be proved wrong.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Weather Display on November 16, 2012, 01:09:49 PM
or maybe Davis have checks in place so no problems
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: docbee on November 16, 2012, 01:13:27 PM
Just to keep you in sync with the German forum, where discussion started. Users there do now also report of their "old" Davis loggers being incompatible with the new firmware. It remains still quite unclear what type of loggers from Davis are v3.00 compatible. So it is not a direct attack to competition but looks more like an attack aiming primary at the wallets of their existing user base.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 16, 2012, 01:30:16 PM
...So it is not a direct attack to competition but looks more like an attack aiming primary at the wallets of their existing user base.

Sounds like you discount the possibility that this could be related to new firmware features and/or software?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Weather Display on November 16, 2012, 01:43:53 PM
oh
so it seems they did not have a system check in place to not allow a firmware update if an old data logger in use?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 16, 2012, 02:00:22 PM
Please: All the information that we have right now is that there is a new revision of VP2** consoles which appears on the face of it not to be compatible with pre-2011 loggers. Any other comment is just speculation right now, which might or might not be proved correct. I'd really like to think that Davis wouldn't be doing this (i) without offering some material benefit to new users; and (ii) without creating the potential for a major support headache for existing users. Perhaps we might need to wait until the new catalogue is released around the turn of the year to see what's in store?

**And Vue consoles too, which also have the rev 3.00 F/W: These new v1.1 'M' revision Vue models were also in our shipment today.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on November 16, 2012, 02:08:33 PM
oh
so it seems they did not have a system check in place to not allow a firmware update if an old data logger in use?

What John said.

Also:  a new firmware update has not been released by Davis, so we don't know what it will do or check or apply to;

And: all that has been reported, is that old data loggers (of some type) will not work with the latest (new from the factory) (firmware version 3.0) VP2 and Vue consoles.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on November 16, 2012, 02:30:15 PM
At least be thankful Davis is not automatically pushing FW updates (lie Acurite)
Title: Re: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: garrettwp on November 16, 2012, 03:58:45 PM
I just received my vantage vue and tried to use a fdti usb cable to get console access. I can confirm that it is a no go. This is with the 3.00 firmware. I'm kind of disappointed. Was hoping not to spend the money on the usb data logger. I'm in the US by the way.

- Garrett
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: moehoward4 on November 16, 2012, 07:49:53 PM
I THINK that Davis just shot themselves in the head...just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Cienega32 on November 16, 2012, 09:01:20 PM
I talked to customer service yesterday about my VP2 Pro refurb and she said that they updated the firmware in both my console and the ISS. As far as I'm aware, I was on the latest firmware as offered on their site so it'll be interesting to see the results.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Jim18655 on November 17, 2012, 09:08:42 AM
Not sure if I'm understanding all this. I currently have version 1.82 and use the Davis serial logger with a serial to USB converter (FTDI chipset). If I upgrade my firmware will my serial logger stop working? VP2 from August of 2008.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 17, 2012, 09:18:25 AM
Not sure if I'm understanding all this. I currently have version 1.82 and use the Davis serial logger with a serial to USB converter (FTDI chipset). If I upgrade my firmware will my serial logger stop working? VP2 from August of 2008.

The answer is possibly/probably yes, it would stop working if somehow you were able to install it - but no-one (outside of Davis) knows for sure at present.

But it's a totally hypothetical question right now: The v3.00 firmware is not available for download, it's only being supplied in brand new consoles. And if/when it is made available for more general downloads, I assume that the download panel would be hedged about with all sorts of prominent warnings about compatibility. In addition, very possibly the download package would be coded NOT to allow installation into older console versions.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Cienega32 on November 21, 2012, 07:30:32 PM
Station and console arrived today. Console reports ver 1.90 - as it was before leaving.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 22, 2012, 10:16:11 AM
Based on some further information from Davis, it looks like there's been a hardware change to the console (both VP2 and Vue I think) such that they require the recent ('green-dot') loggers and seemingly no other type of logger or interface can substitute. This change has been accompanied by the firmware revision to 3.00. Apparently the F/W on the new consoles cannot be downgraded to eg v1.90. (So this would not appear to be a firmware-only change - it could just be coincidental that the F/W has also been upgraded to 3.00, although that's quite a good diagnostic of the new consoles for now.)

The new consoles can also be identified by the fact that the serials (Mfg Code) now start with two letters, rather than one as previously, eg 'AA' for the VP2 and 'MB' for the Vue. Obviously these codes may increment in future revisions, eg to 'AB' and 'MC' for example, with the first letter also potentially changing for more major revisions.

So in checking future logger compatibility it will probably be better to look at the console Mfg Code letters, rather than the F/W revision per se. (Actually, the simplest way of checking is you have the green dot on the station packing then you'll also need the green dot on the logger pack - but obviously not much help if you've already disposed of the packing!)
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: JPB on November 22, 2012, 10:44:03 AM
I am a new arrival, so I am not up to speed on all of the nomenclature.

So, I want to ask a simple question concerning the topic of this thread.

"New VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party data loggers?"

Which of the following does this mean, exactly?

1) You have to use Davis WeatherLink software *and* the console/USB cable that comes in its box? If this is the case, then using a box like the meteohub won't work, even when using a Davis/Weatherlink provided console/USB cable.
2) You have to use the console/USB cable that comes in the WeatherLink box, but you don't need weatherlink itself. If this is the case, then using a box like the meteohub will still work, as long as you are using this 'green dot' console/USB cable.
3) Something else.

Please, could someone let me know if we're talking about 1, 2 or 3 here, and if 3, what exactly is being discussed?

As you can guess, I fit category '2' - I purchased WeatherLink and got an ''official davis" cable from that, but my cable plugs into a MeteoHub.

Thanks,
Joel
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on November 22, 2012, 10:45:40 AM
Pick Door #2.  :)
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: belfryboy on November 22, 2012, 11:40:39 AM
Jpb, there are a number of us that build cables that interface with the console, without the need to purchase the weatherlink software. Obviously if you purchased a Davis logger, then you'll have no problems.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 22, 2012, 11:47:54 AM
Jpb, there are a number of us that build cables that interface with the console..

Rob, the question is though, will the non-logger 'cables' still work with the new generation of consoles? It's a question - I don't know the answer, but I don't think it can be assumed to be yes (or no) until tested.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on November 22, 2012, 12:16:26 PM
Jpb, there are a number of us that build cables that interface with the console..

Rob, the question is though, will the non-logger 'cables' still work with the new generation of consoles? It's a question - I don't know the answer, but I don't think it can be assumed to be yes (or no) until tested.

Is there an external, physical difference between the older Davis logger and the newer ("green dot") logger?  e.g., is the connector the same size, pin spacing, etc.?

Also, just out of curiosity - are all 3 types of logger available in the "green dot" version? 
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: belfryboy on November 22, 2012, 12:17:50 PM
Jpb, there are a number of us that build cables that interface with the console..

Rob, the question is though, will the non-logger 'cables' still work with the new generation of consoles? It's a question - I don't know the answer, but I don't think it can be assumed to be yes (or no) until tested.
I think this was answered  here. (http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=17198.msg166728#msg166728)
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 22, 2012, 12:30:06 PM
Is there an external, physical difference between the older Davis logger and the newer ("green dot") logger?  e.g., is the connector the same size, pin spacing, etc.?

As far as I know, there's no visible difference - the Mfg Code is the only clue on the logger itself.

(There couldn't really be any difference eg to pin spacing - the green dot loggers have been in the supply chain for well over a year now and so have obviously been used extensively with pre- green dot consoles.)

Quote
Also, just out of curiosity - are all 3 types of logger available in the "green dot" version?  

Yes
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 22, 2012, 12:33:23 PM
I think this was answered  here. (http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=17198.msg166728#msg166728)

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that post. Must remember to check back more carefully!
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on November 22, 2012, 12:54:18 PM

... the green dot loggers have been in the supply chain for well over a year now ...

I wasn't aware that they had been out that long.  Thanks for the information.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Old Tele man on November 22, 2012, 03:48:48 PM
The problem, however, is that when you buy a station from someone other than DAVIS, you do not really know how long it had been in their inventory before it got to you; hence, buying something "new" today, from someone other than DAVIS, may or may NOT have the new 3.0.0 firmware.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 22, 2012, 04:07:40 PM
The problem, however, is that when you buy a station from someone other than DAVIS, you do not really know how long it had been in their inventory before it got to you; hence, buying something "new" today, from someone other than DAVIS, may or may NOT have the new 3.0.0 firmware.

That's only a problem in one fairly narrow sense though. If the new station is not v3.00 F/W then it will work with any logger. If it is v3.00 (or, more accurately, an 'AA' (VP2) or 'MB' (Vue) revision in the Mfg Code) then as long as you're using a relatively recent logger (roughly 2011 or later) there will be no problem. The only combination that's going to be problematic AIUI is trying to use an AA/MB console with an older logger, which is possibly going to catch out a few users in the long run, but not many.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Weather Display on November 22, 2012, 05:48:23 PM
the bottom line...is...the newest VP2 and Vue (with the V3 firmware)
at this stage
will not work with a 3rd party data logger
yes?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: JACK10562 on November 22, 2012, 08:00:36 PM
On another note, typically devices containing electronic circuits (radios) sporting a "green dot" indicates it's listed as the electronics systems being intrinsically safe for use in hazardous locations ( those containing combustible gas mixtures, airborne dust or other flammable materials)

Aside from the firmware (in)compatibility I don't see a need for this level of certification as being routinely necessary.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 23, 2012, 03:07:30 AM
the bottom line...is...the newest VP2 and Vue (with the V3 firmware)
at this stage
will not work with a 3rd party data logger
yes?

That was my question to Belfryboy yesterday, to which there was one answer further back in the thread and which seemed to confirm fairly definitely that the AA/MB consoles won't work with _anything_ other than a 'green-dot' Davis logger. It's just one report of course for now, but no reason to think that it's not the definitive answer.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 23, 2012, 03:09:57 AM
On another note, typically devices containing electronic circuits (radios) sporting a "green dot" indicates it's listed as the electronics systems being intrinsically safe for use in hazardous locations ( those containing combustible gas mixtures, airborne dust or other flammable materials)

Aside from the firmware (in)compatibility I don't see a need for this level of certification as being routinely necessary.

I suspect (though don't know for sure) that this is total coincidence and that Davis's use of the green dot (on the packaging not the device itself) is purely a visual indicator of console/logger compatibility and nothing more. BICBW.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Weather Display on November 23, 2012, 04:18:23 AM
maybe the talented people here will figure out what the difference (i.e what changes there are), and make them compatible ...
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: belfryboy on November 23, 2012, 05:47:17 AM
maybe the talented people here will figure out what the difference (i.e what changes there are), and make them compatible ...
The only way that will happen is if I can get my hands on a new console. I don't have the spare cash to buy, so I won't be doing this in the near future.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: DeKay on November 25, 2012, 10:29:13 PM
maybe the talented people here will figure out what the difference (i.e what changes there are), and make them compatible ...
The only way that will happen is if I can get my hands on a new console. I don't have the spare cash to buy, so I won't be doing this in the near future.

Ditto, mostly.  I did what I did because I found it interesting.  I haven't made a dime off what I've been able to figure out (though I encourage those who have), and as long as I have a console that is working perfectly well, I don't want to spend a whole bunch of dimes on one that is crippled.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on November 25, 2012, 10:34:22 PM
I'll chip in a few bucks  for a console for you guy(s) to sort this.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: belfryboy on November 26, 2012, 01:10:10 AM
I'll chip in a few bucks  for a console for you guy(s) to sort this.
Really? You mean a sort of "crowd funding" sort of thing? That could be really cool.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: meteo.quimper on November 26, 2012, 02:42:36 AM
Hi all

Is there a way to downgradethe firmware from V3 to V1.90 ? i ask that because there is some 1.90 firmware who are translated in country language, for example: 1.90 DE, 1.90 NL...
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 26, 2012, 03:12:21 AM
The answer seems to be no - no F/W downgrade from v3.x is possible.

Edit: Actually just potentially to future-proof this comment, let me say that my understanding is that no F/W downgrading of v3.00 installed in an 'AA' or later console revision is possible. (It's not inconceivable that Davis could release a version of 3.00 that is compatible with older consoles. IMHO it's important not to get fixated on 3.00 as a F/W revision - more important to look at the first 2 letters of the Mfg Code of the console because this is what flags up the hardware difference in the new consoles.)
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on November 26, 2012, 09:11:21 AM
I'll chip in a few bucks  for a console for you guy(s) to sort this.
Really? You mean a sort of "crowd funding" sort of thing? That could be really cool.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking.  There are sites for that sort of thing.  I wonder if there are any others interested?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on November 26, 2012, 02:07:38 PM

As far as I know, there's no visible difference - the Mfg Code is the only clue on the logger itself.


I may have missed the information somewhere -- what are the different Mfg codes for the loggers?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: DeKay on November 26, 2012, 11:01:04 PM
I'll chip in a few bucks  for a console for you guy(s) to sort this.
Really? You mean a sort of "crowd funding" sort of thing? That could be really cool.

I dunno.  V3 gets cracked and they put out a V4 and the cycle continues.  Nobody wins.

So why not put together one of these (http://www.raspberrypi.org/) and one of these (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ciseco/eve-alpha-raspberry-pi-wireless-development-hardwa).  The radio on the EVE board can talk to the ISS directly.  Say to heck with the Davis console altogether and build something with real power that can do a lot more.  Log a gigabyte of data if you want.  Connect to an HD display.  Run a web server that lets you see your personal weather station from your cell phone.  I've already figured out the hard part of decoding the ISS transmissions.  It gets easier from there.  Put that together with some neat home control stuff.

That would be really cool.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on November 27, 2012, 10:04:30 AM
Can you tell me more about how EVE talks to the ISS?  I would LOVE to ditch the PC (currently a netbook that will have to be replaced with a FIT PC or equivalent).  If you are suggesting a wireless version of my CAI/Rehill Webcontrol, I'm all ears.  :)
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: DeKay on November 27, 2012, 11:38:32 PM
Can you tell me more about how EVE talks to the ISS?  I would LOVE to ditch the PC (currently a netbook that will have to be replaced with a FIT PC or equivalent).  If you are suggesting a wireless version of my CAI/Rehill Webcontrol, I'm all ears.  :)

The SRF module that plops onto the EVE boards is CC1110 based.  That is the same radio chip as in the infamous Pretty Pink Pager that I have already used to receive ISS transmissions (no hopping yet, but the hop sequence is known and is straightforward to implement).  I'm assuming the SRF module can be fitted with an antenna better tuned to the North American band rather than the UK band.

Or just start small with a Xino board on an Arduino or an XRF board.  More here: http://shop.ciseco.co.uk/search.php?search_query=xrf&x=0&y=0
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on November 28, 2012, 12:42:28 AM
Pretty cool stuff.  Thanks for the link.  I LOVE the prices of the sensors!
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on November 28, 2012, 09:57:41 AM

As far as I know, there's no visible difference - the Mfg Code is the only clue on the logger itself.


I may have missed the information somewhere -- what are the different Mfg codes for the loggers?

Did this get answered somewhere?  [i.e., how do we tell the difference between "old" and "new" loggers?]
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 28, 2012, 10:08:30 AM
Did this get answered somewhere?  [i.e., how do we tell the difference between "old" and "new" loggers?]

The package of the 'new' loggers has a prominent green dot on it. I'm not aware that Davis have published the full Mfg Code details, but in broad terms all loggers (serial/USB/IP) manufactured in the last 15-18 months or so have been green-dot versions.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on November 28, 2012, 10:15:38 AM
Did this get answered somewhere?  [i.e., how do we tell the difference between "old" and "new" loggers?]

The package of the 'new' loggers has a prominent green dot on it. I'm not aware that Davis have published the full Mfg Code details, but in broad terms all loggers (serial/USB/IP) manufactured in the last 15-18 months or so have been green-dot versions.

Just to be sure - you're saying that the actual logger itself has a green dot on it? 

[I had previously thought you said that only the packaging (wrapping/box/container/whatever) had the green dot].
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 28, 2012, 10:19:35 AM
Did this get answered somewhere?  [i.e., how do we tell the difference between "old" and "new" loggers?]

The package of the 'new' loggers has a prominent green dot on it. I'm not aware that Davis have published the full Mfg Code details, but in broad terms all loggers (serial/USB/IP) manufactured in the last 15-18 months or so have been green-dot versions.

Just to be sure - you're saying that the actual logger itself has a green dot on it? 

[I had previously thought you said that only the packaging (wrapping/box/container/whatever) had the green dot].

Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on November 28, 2012, 10:28:18 AM
Sorry, we have a language difficulty.  By "package", you mean the black thing that physically plugs into the console.  In other words, the logger.

In the US, package would mean the outer shipping container that the logger comes in - box, bag, whatever.  [Alternative meanings for "package" notwithstanding]

Did this get answered somewhere?  [i.e., how do we tell the difference between "old" and "new" loggers?]

The package of the 'new' loggers has a prominent green dot on it. I'm not aware that Davis have published the full Mfg Code details, but in broad terms all loggers (serial/USB/IP) manufactured in the last 15-18 months or so have been green-dot versions.

Just to be sure - you're saying that the actual logger itself has a green dot on it? 

[I had previously thought you said that only the packaging (wrapping/box/container/whatever) had the green dot].

Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 28, 2012, 10:32:24 AM
Sorry, we have a language difficulty.  By "package", you mean the black thing that physically plugs into the console.  In other words, the logger.

In the US, package would mean the outer shipping container that the logger comes in - box, bag, whatever.  [Alternative meanings for "package" notwithstanding]

Package in the everyday sense (not the chip sense), ie the very pretty cardboard carton that the Weatherlink pack comes in.  :-)
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Old Tele man on November 28, 2012, 10:50:25 AM
FWIW, the white, fold-over cardboard packaging around the WeatherLinkIP (#06555) that I just received from RainmanWeather has the green-'dot' sticker and 08-22-12 V6.0 stamped in red ink, and the WeatherLink software program shows as ver. 6.0.0...not the latest version.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Jeff on November 28, 2012, 11:38:12 AM
FWIW, the white, fold-over cardboard packaging around the WeatherLinkIP (#06555) that I just received from RainmanWeather has the green-'dot' sticker and 08-22-12 V6.0 stamped in red ink, and the WeatherLink software program shows as ver. 6.0.0...not the latest version.

I just purchased WeatherLink 6510USB  it also has the green-'dot' sticker and 10-24-12 V6.0 stamped in red ink.

J
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on November 28, 2012, 12:09:59 PM
Sorry, we have a language difficulty.  By "package", you mean the black thing that physically plugs into the console.  In other words, the logger.

In the US, package would mean the outer shipping container that the logger comes in - box, bag, whatever.  [Alternative meanings for "package" notwithstanding]

Package in the everyday sense (not the chip sense), ie the very pretty cardboard carton that the Weatherlink pack comes in.  :-)

Then, the question that will eventually come up here in this forum (and frequently for Davis support) is:

"How do I tell if my existing logger will work with a new Vue/VP2?"

I can hardly imagine that Davis doesn't provide a way to identify this, of course - folks just need to know.  It's also going to be somewhat critical information for purchases of previously-used equipment.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 28, 2012, 12:20:53 PM
Then, the question that will eventually come up here in this forum (and frequently for Davis support) is...

The simple answer is still: it's compatible if the logger's (outer) packaging had a green dot on it.

More helpfully, I'd be hopeful that Davis will make an announcement about compatibility imminently - I just haven't seen the details in the public arena as yet.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: d_l on November 28, 2012, 12:31:23 PM
Does anyone know if  this "green dot" requirement applies to Serial and USB loggers for the latest Envoy8xes?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 28, 2012, 12:37:22 PM
Does anyone know if  this "green dot" requirement applies to Serial and USB loggers for the latest Envoy8xes?

There's been no announcement to suggest that the 8X units now require green dot loggers. Not surprising, I guess, because the whole hardware and firmware on the 8X is rather different from the standard VP2 family. Perhaps it will come at a later date, but it seems not to be a requirement for now.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on November 28, 2012, 12:54:56 PM
John, I know this isn't your fault, and I appreciate you taking the time to give us the best answers you currently have...


The simple answer is still: it's compatible if the logger's (outer) packaging had a green dot on it.


I already threw away the packaging.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on November 28, 2012, 01:07:54 PM
I already threw away the packaging.

Yes, I know.  :???:

There are more detailed answers and I'm sure it's not a state secret, but it's really up to Davis to make a public announcement rather than anyone else. Perhaps if someone were to ask the question of Davis support and post the answer back here... ?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Weather Display on November 28, 2012, 01:24:32 PM
is the Sloweather logger also affected?
(shame if it is, especialy just after that was mentioned in the latest Davis newsletter)
?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: SlowModem on November 28, 2012, 01:36:08 PM
is the Sloweather logger also affected?
(shame if it is, especialy just after that was mentioned in the latest Davis newsletter)
?

The bottom line:

What's going to have to happen is that someone with a new console is going to have to obtain one of the WXForum loggers and see if it works.

Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: d_l on November 28, 2012, 01:56:19 PM
John, I'm pretty sure I recall a green, stick-on dot on the packaging of a WLIP I bought about 13 months ago.  I thought it was odd at the time and that it might have been added by my Davis dealer.

Just how long have the green dot loggers been available?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Weather Display on November 28, 2012, 02:17:58 PM
John did mention about a year now, further up this thread...
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on November 28, 2012, 03:18:16 PM
Perhaps if someone were to ask the question of Davis support and post the answer back here... ?

Question sent.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Sigdigit on December 01, 2012, 05:46:21 PM
Davis is going to spend all the money they make producing proprietary BS to revamp the obsolete Weatherlink software, right? hahahahahahhahahah!!!!!!!  Only place in the world where you can still get a job being a Fortran progammer, right?  Actually that is far to kind.  Don't they program in Basic? :twisted:  Their program graphics resemble something I programmed myself on my Apple II.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Old Tele man on December 01, 2012, 06:09:50 PM
Davis is going to spend all the money they make producing proprietary BS to revamp the obsolete Weatherlink software, right? hahahahahahhahahah!!!!!!!  Only place in the world where you can still get a job being a Fortran progammer, right?  Actually that is far to kind.  Don't they program in Basic? :twisted:  Their program graphics resemble something I programmed myself on my Apple II.
...yeah, I got "Eric" pissed when I said the WeatherLink-USB graphics looked like something from the early days of DOS and CGA graphics...maybe that's *why* my e-mails to them have since been ignored?!?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Sigdigit on December 01, 2012, 06:20:32 PM
Hahhh!!!  Probably.  I certainly wouldn't want to take credit for those primitive displays!  CGA, lol.  That takes me back.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: docbee on December 01, 2012, 06:59:50 PM
I also don't have the packaging of a WLIP logger I bought about a year ago to check if it has a green dot on it.  :?

When I put the pieces together I do see we have:
- a company selling overpriced commonditiy interfaces
- a third party replacement product shows up (about a year ago)
- short time later loggers from the company have green sticker on them
- now the company secretly launches consoles with new firmware that
  requires green dotted loggers
- downgrade to previous firmware seems not possible
- the company does not communicate in any way with their customers on
  all this.
- customers find out themself that things are no more working as expected
  and the company keep them guessing if their previous hw invest is trashed.

Umbelievable! Or to say it with Monty Pythons: 10.000 tons
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on December 01, 2012, 07:25:45 PM
Davis is going to spend all the money they make producing proprietary BS to revamp the obsolete Weatherlink software, right? hahahahahahhahahah!!!!!!!  Only place in the world where you can still get a job being a Fortran progammer, right?  Actually that is far to kind.  Don't they program in Basic? :twisted:  Their program graphics resemble something I programmed myself on my Apple II.

You would be shocked to learn how much FORTRAN is still being used.  Biomedical software, oil exploration software, etc. That said, WL _is_ lame.  And while I'm at it, why is it that SQL backends are so few and far between on weather stuff?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: d_l on December 01, 2012, 07:55:01 PM
As far as I can determine, the green dot loggers appeared before the first "home brew" logger hardware was offered for sale here; however, not before DeKay had described a method to access the output from the consoles. 

So the green dot loggerss are not a direct response to the appearance of competing hardware.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: belfryboy on December 02, 2012, 02:07:36 AM
And if y'all remember a good few years ago bluewave had already released a third party logger. Although Davis dealt with that a little differently, maybe because unlicensed software was also being sold.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on December 02, 2012, 04:06:58 AM
- the company does not communicate in any way with their customers on
  all this.

Dealers can tell you immediately if a particular logger is compatible - just needs the Mfg Code. Boris, PM me if you need to know about an individual unit.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: DeKay on December 02, 2012, 10:49:19 AM
And if y'all remember a good few years ago bluewave had already released a third party logger. Although Davis dealt with that a little differently, maybe because unlicensed software was also being sold.

Funny, coming from a company offering a download of Hyperterminal from their site that I suspect they are not licensed to do.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on December 02, 2012, 11:19:29 AM
That is pretty rich, eh?  :)  I am sure Hilgreave - the owners of that software need to learn about that!
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: miraculon on December 02, 2012, 03:35:20 PM
I have a WLIP with the box with the following code:

11-09 11V5.9.3 on the box top. There is a green dot to the right of it.

I don't know if this means November of last year or '09. I bought it this past January, so I suspect that it was from Nov. '11.

Greg H.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: miraculon on December 02, 2012, 03:47:12 PM
In the Davis "Serial Communication Reference Manual" there is a mention on page 38 (last entry in the table for EEPROM configuration settings) about a CRC for a password.

They mention protection from "unauthorized access" and that it is enforced by "software implementation".

I wonder if they recently began enforcing this password protection somehow...

Since it is in the E2 it would follow that plain UART/RS232 dongles wouldn't work if they started using this password in the console FW.

Greg H.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: DeKay on December 02, 2012, 04:52:10 PM
In the Davis "Serial Communication Reference Manual" there is a mention on page 38 (last entry in the table for EEPROM configuration settings) about a CRC for a password.

They mention protection from "unauthorized access" and that it is enforced by "software implementation".

I wonder if they recently began enforcing this password protection somehow...

Since it is in the E2 it would follow that plain UART/RS232 dongles wouldn't work if they started using this password in the console FW.

Greg H.

Nice find, but I don't think it fully explains why they seem to be making new dongles now.  The old dongles were simply a pass-through level converter.  As you can see from the serial protocol docs, there are already commands to read and write to the EEPROM.

It could be that they are actually putting some password in the the new logger's flash.  The console detects the logger on startup, checks the password written into the flash, and only talks on its remote port if the password is set.

Finding a workout would not be difficult if this were the case.  Another forum member is already using an Arduino to sniff the SPI bus that the console uses to talk to the logger's flash.  Write that same magic value to a clone flash chip and you're done.  Then stand back and watch as a new cottage industry develops that retrofits old loggers into green dot loggers.

Someone with a new green dot serial logger and upgraded firmware on their console could also use a serial port sniffing program like this one (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896644.aspx) to look for any suspicious commands going back and forth between the computer and the console.

I suspect that without a significant hardware redesign, Davis is very limited in what they can do to thwart this kind of reverse engineering.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: rdsman on December 02, 2012, 05:13:25 PM
I just placed an order for a Davis USB logger.  I'll be "sniffing" the real thing shortly!

Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on December 02, 2012, 08:24:35 PM
I just placed an order for a Davis USB logger.  I'll be "sniffing" the real thing shortly!



Just out of curiosity - how do you sniff the communication between the logger and the console?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Old Tele man on December 02, 2012, 09:27:56 PM
...we used a HP "Parallel Bus Analyzer" machine, a 8/16/32/64-bit parallel capture scope with memory.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: C5250 on December 02, 2012, 11:12:42 PM
Just out of curiosity - how do you sniff the communication between the logger and the console?

Because Windows emulates serial ports, that is actually quite easy; take your pick: serial port monitors (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbo=d&site=&source=hp&q=windows+serial+port+sniffer&oq=windows+serial+port+&gs_l=hp.1.2.0l10.2690.7451.0.10864.20.19.0.0.0.0.176.1667.15j4.19.0.les%3Bepsugrpq1..0.0...1.1.w4LpcV3CkGY) Back in the "DOS" days, it would have required hardware.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on December 02, 2012, 11:38:14 PM
Just out of curiosity - how do you sniff the communication between the logger and the console?

Because Windows emulates serial ports, that is actually quite easy; take your pick: serial port monitors (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbo=d&site=&source=hp&q=windows+serial+port+sniffer&oq=windows+serial+port+&gs_l=hp.1.2.0l10.2690.7451.0.10864.20.19.0.0.0.0.176.1667.15j4.19.0.les%3Bepsugrpq1..0.0...1.1.w4LpcV3CkGY) Back in the "DOS" days, it would have required hardware.


Sorry I wasn't clear.  My question was intended to be how is the "sniffing" connection (the physical connection) made, between the multiple-pin connector inside the console, and the logger?

...or how is the physical connection made, at the connector-pair?

I can think of various ways to do that, but I'm curious as to what is being used by rdsman.

Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: rdsman on December 03, 2012, 06:59:09 AM
I have several different Protocol Analyzers available.  The first thing that I will do is a memory dump of the logger before it is attached to the console.  I will then connect in parallel to the SPI interface going to the logger and record what happens during the Power Up sequence.  This is as far as I have thought this through for now.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on December 03, 2012, 10:31:02 AM
I have several different Protocol Analyzers available.  The first thing that I will do is a memory dump of the logger before it is attached to the console.  I will then connect in parallel to the SPI interface going to the logger and record what happens during the Power Up sequence.  This is as far as I have thought this through for now.


Thanks for the information.  Looking forward to hearing what you discover. 

I'm sure you will want to also look at what happens during the Power Up sequence from your "green dot" console to a "non-green-dot" logger.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: SLOweather on December 03, 2012, 12:11:18 PM
I know of one DSI-01 soon-to-be-former customer with a VP2 console and 3.0 firmware that couldn't get the interface to work.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on December 03, 2012, 12:27:44 PM
Can I just say again that it may be important not to get too focused on the new consoles having v3 F/W. Remember that they are also revision 'AA' (or 'MA' / ''MB' for the Vue) console hardware revisions. It's not impossible that there may be a v3 F/W release for the older consoles at some stage, which won't necessarily have the same behaviour as v3 F/W in the new green-dot 'AA'/'MB' consoles.

The simplest solution may be just to talk about consoles with an 'AA' or 'MA' or later Mfg Code as green-dot consoles.

(Just trying to future-proof this discussion a bit.)
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on December 03, 2012, 12:33:28 PM

The simplest solution may be just to talk about consoles with an 'AA' or 'MA' or later Mfg Code as green-dot consoles.

(Just trying to future-proof this discussion a bit.)

I appreciate the point (and that's the way I referred to them).  However, I'm guessing that Davis will not (eventually) call them green-dot consoles and green-dot loggers.  So, it's just near-term-future-proof, until Davis tells us what to call them.

But that's the best we can do at the moment.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on December 03, 2012, 09:19:37 PM
Perhaps if someone were to ask the question of Davis support and post the answer back here... ?

Question sent.

Answer
Subject: RE: Logger compatibility

Hi,

If your data logger is older than about a year and a half old it will not work with the latest version console. There have been some hardware changes on the consoles and old loggers will not work with them. If your logger does not work with your new console when you get it I can replace the logger for you.

Eric Nickl
Technical Support
Davis Instruments
510-732-7814
support@davisnet.com


-----Original Message-----
From: (me)
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 10:45 AM
To: Support
Subject: Logger compatibility

I'm considering upgrading my VP2 system by adding one or two Vue consoles.  I have heard rumors that my logger may not work with the new Vue console.  How do I tell?  

Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: DeKay on December 03, 2012, 10:20:17 PM
If your data logger is older than about a year and a half old it will not work with the latest version console.

Coincidentally, the DIY interface came on the scene about a year and three-quarters ago...

There have been some hardware changes on the consoles and old loggers will not work with them.

For laughs, you should press them on what these specific hardware changes are and why they did it.  For bigger laughs, ask why is it that old consoles that get sent away for refurb are upgraded to V3 firmware, after which the old loggers not to work anymore (to my understanding).
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: C5250 on December 04, 2012, 12:38:31 AM
For bigger laughs, ask why is it that old consoles that get sent away for refurb are upgraded to V3 firmware, after which the old loggers not to work anymore (to my understanding).

I thought this was not happening???

I would suspect v3 probably drops support for older hardware that is no longer used.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Old Tele man on December 04, 2012, 10:20:20 AM
CAUTION - One man's 'tongue-in-cheek' analogy follows:

Sounds like Davis is following the Microsoft "business model" by having their "new" hardware nolonger "workee" with non-Davis stuff, just like MS did with early versions of Windows against IBM and other software, ie: "MS motto: If you can't beat'em (fairly), subvert them (illegally)..."





...anybody remember back when MS OS would 'detect' non-MS software and declare "ERROR"?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on December 04, 2012, 12:37:58 PM
It is absolutely not illegal for Davis to change their hardware to be specific to their devices.  Just as it is not illegal for an individual to make their own version. 
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on December 04, 2012, 01:15:57 PM
It is absolutely not illegal for Davis to change their hardware to be specific to their devices.  Just as it is not illegal for an individual to make their own version. 

Yes.  And if a console is sent in for refurbishment (and if the circuit board requires replacement), I would expect the replacement board to be "new stock". 
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on December 04, 2012, 02:02:22 PM
It is absolutely not illegal for Davis to change their hardware to be specific to their devices.  Just as it is not illegal for an individual to make their own version. 

Yes.  And if a console is sent in for refurbishment (and if the circuit board requires replacement), I would expect the replacement board to be "new stock". 

Be sure that if this is now Davis' MO that you send your Davis logger with it so that all is compatible.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: rdsman on December 21, 2012, 05:08:26 PM
Belfryboy:

Do you have a way of reading the Security Register (0x77) for the 45DB011D's that you provide in your logger?  This may not have anything to do with the "Green Dot" loggers, but it's worth a shot.  Below are the first 64 bytes of mine:

80 2D 22 6F 52 6F 98 A9 21 25 5E 2D 2D 31 D2 39 18 1C 63 0C 31 21 2D 39 90 DE 94 6F 6B 77 73 7F
63 8C 88 84 80 9C 98 94 90 AD A9 A5 A1 BD B9 B5 B1 CA CE C2 C6 DA DE D2 D6 EB EF E3 E7 FB FF F3

Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: belfryboy on December 21, 2012, 08:32:10 PM
You read my mind, I have a bus pirate on order, and will look at this in the new year.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: DeKay on December 22, 2012, 12:47:13 PM
You read my mind, I have a bus pirate on order, and will look at this in the new year.

And I have a bus pirate in my basement.  This step by step procedure (http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/AT45DB041D_4Mbit_flash_memory) made digging into my DIY logger trivial.  First I read the JEDEC ID to make sure I was talking to it OK.  Then I read the 64 bytes available at 0x77.  rdsman, does this look about right?

SPI>[0x9f r:4]                                                                 
/CS ENABLED                                                                     
WRITE: 0x9F                                                                     
READ: 0x1E 0x48 0x00 0x00                                                       
/CS DISABLED                                                                   
SPI>[0x77 0 0 0 r:64]                                                           
/CS ENABLED                                                                     
WRITE: 0x77                                                                     
WRITE: 0x00                                                                     
WRITE: 0x00                                                                     
WRITE: 0x00                                                                     
READ: 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF
 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF
 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF
 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF 0xFF
 0xFE                                                                           
/CS DISABLED                                                                   
SPI>
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: rdsman on December 22, 2012, 03:54:08 PM
DeKay:

I get different results than you for the JEDIC ID.  I get what's shown on page 26 of the datasheet (0x1F 0x22 0x00 0x00).  Does the fistfull of 0xFF's that you get from the Security Register mean that yours has not been programmed?  I don't know what an unprogrammed one should read.



                                
                                      
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dewie on December 24, 2012, 09:30:37 AM
Hey all, I recently purchased a Vantage VUE Weather station and was pretty disappointed to read that because it was a 'MA' Manufacturing code that I would not be able to use a 3rd party PC interface.

It looks to me like you folks may be getting close to determining the differences the latest round of firmware may have introduced? I have no need for the data logging as my console will be connected to a PC which is on 24/7. If I loose a few data points I'm not going to cry about it.

It is going to be a few weeks before I can even think about paying a stupid amount for a Davis unit and I'm hoping you folks get this figured. I just wanted to chip in and say keep up the excellent work, you have people following your progress and waiting patiently  8-)
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: DeKay on December 24, 2012, 12:26:46 PM
DeKay:

I get different results than you for the JEDIC ID.  I get what's shown on page 26 of the datasheet (0x1F 0x22 0x00 0x00).  Does the fistfull of 0xFF's that you get from the Security Register mean that yours has not been programmed?  I don't know what an unprogrammed one should read.

My Bus Pirate might be off by one bit.  I have used that chip in my DIY non-Davis logger.  I guess this says that my current console firmware never tries to write those bytes.  Might / might not be a different story with the old Davis logger.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: rdsman on December 24, 2012, 03:43:57 PM
DeKay:

The Security Register is OTP.  I'm guesing all 0xFF's is what an unprogrammed one reads.  I now know what a "Green Dot" data logger contains.  Now we need a volunteer to read a Davis manufactured non "Green Dot" version.  Anyone out there?

By the way, the Status Register returns 0x8C when the chip is not busy.

Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: DeKay on December 24, 2012, 06:26:35 PM
DeKay:

The Security Register is OTP.  I'm guesing all 0xFF's is what an unprogrammed one reads.  I now know what a "Green Dot" data logger contains.  Now we need a volunteer to read a Davis manufactured non "Green Dot" version.  Anyone out there?

By the way, the Status Register returns 0x8C when the chip is not busy.

I think the chances that a non "Green Dot" version having a 0xFF in the security register is around 99%.  It would be better to find a volunteer with V3 firmware version to try a DIY logger programmed with the security bytes you have uncovered.

rdsman, the other thing you might want to do is read the Sector Lockdown register (0x35).  Davis might have locked a sector down in a green dot logger and then have the firmware try to write to it in the V3 firmware.  If the write succeeds, then the firmware would determine that it was a non-green dot version and bail out.  If you do find a locked down sector, it would probably be worthwhile to also read what is in it while you are at it.  It would be sensible for a DIY logger to contain the same data before it too was locked down.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: C5250 on December 25, 2012, 12:19:22 AM
Locking a sector would reduce the capacity. I'm more inclined to believe they started using a command that isn't supported by the B version. But, until I actually see the firmware, it's all speculation.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on December 29, 2012, 11:02:30 AM
For reference: first "reported in this forum" case of an innocent customer having a problem with incompatible pieces of Davis hardware.

This is with US-model equipment, not UK or EU.

http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=17691.0
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: BCJKiwi on December 29, 2012, 11:22:55 PM
Just a (probably non-relevant thought).

Noticed that the latest(?) weatherlink sw update (6.0.2 upgrade) is dated september 2012.

May this in any way throw some light on the changes to the logger?

I don't actually use this software so am unable to test it.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: rdsman on December 29, 2012, 11:27:36 PM
Where did all of this contempt for Davis come from?  Just like any other company, they are in business to make a profit.  How else could they pay employees,
fund R&D and provide products for "us" to complain about.  How many of us work for companies that do the same? Yes, we spend hard earned money for our toys.
Do they grow up?  You betcha!  My first new car was a 1969 Firebird with a 350 HO in it.  It was a "SCREAMER".  Do any of the spare parts & accessories  that
I bought for it fit my 2009 Forester, NO!  Who should I complain too, Pontiac or Subaru?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: BCJKiwi on December 30, 2012, 12:04:43 AM
No complaint from me!

I think the real issue here is that Davis have made the change and not told anyone about it. Hence the issues faced by the poster here http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=17691.0 (http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=17691.0)
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on December 30, 2012, 05:02:31 AM
I think the real issue here is that Davis have made the change and not told anyone about it.

All dealers are (or certainly should be - if they read their email) aware of the pending change, from some months back. Agreed that there should be more information on the David website, but this is probably just another sign that David are not quite as organised in maintaining their website as they could be. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's further info in the next e-Newsletter or in the next catalogue whose launch must be imminent. Almost certainly there will be further clarification after the holiday dust has settled and certainly I'd expect to hear more by the end of January.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dewie on December 30, 2012, 08:02:58 AM
My issue is currently that I'm not entirely sure which data logger I need for my Vantage Vue with 3.0 Firmware. I want to shop around and get as good of a deal as possible but because they don't specify which is 3.0 compatible I'm not entirely sure what I can and can't buy...
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on December 30, 2012, 08:08:13 AM
You need a 'green dot' logger, which - unsurprisingly - has a green dot on the outside of its packaging. All newly-manufactured Davis loggers have been green dot for well over a year now and so any reputable dealer will only be supplying green dot loggers.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: moehoward4 on December 30, 2012, 08:10:34 AM
    Can anybody say "Public Relations" ? Davis has failed miserably on this issue.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: JACK10562 on December 30, 2012, 08:15:35 AM
You need a 'green dot' logger, which - unsurprisingly - has a green dot on the outside of its packaging. All newly-manufactured Davis loggers have been green dot for well over a year now and so any reputable dealer will only be supplying greed dot loggers.

That's an appropriate typo.... :lol:
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on December 30, 2012, 11:30:35 AM
That's an appropriate typo.... :lol:

Thanks - corrected.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: rdsman on January 03, 2013, 06:03:26 PM

I think the chances that a non "Green Dot" version having a 0xFF in the security register is around 99%.  It would be better to find a volunteer with V3 firmware version to try a DIY logger programmed with the security bytes you have uncovered.

rdsman, the other thing you might want to do is read the Sector Lockdown register (0x35).  Davis might have locked a sector down in a green dot logger and then have the firmware try to write to it in the V3 firmware.  If the write succeeds, then the firmware would determine that it was a non-green dot version and bail out.  If you do find a locked down sector, it would probably be worthwhile to also read what is in it while you are at it.  It would be sensible for a DIY logger to contain the same data before it too was locked down.

Dekay:

The Sector Lockdown Register returns:

0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00




Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: DeKay on January 03, 2013, 09:02:56 PM
The Sector Lockdown Register returns:

0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00


Good.  One less thing to worry about.  Davis also brings out four I/O lines to the connector that aren't used for the logger (I think some might be used for the alarm module).  There is an off chance that with a logger attached, they pull one of these lines high or low to indicate new vs old.

It would be interesting to somehow get a DIY logger with the security register programmed up into the hands of someone with a unit that has V3 firmware and see what happens.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: belfryboy on January 04, 2013, 02:03:59 AM
I am taking a crash course in hacking, and attempting just that.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Jace on January 04, 2013, 02:35:22 PM
I sent Davis a email requesting their policy for upgrading/replacing data loggers in the event that I have to change my console. (I have had one changed under warranty after 2 months use).

This was their reply.

"John,

We recently updated the hardware on our console which requires the new 3.0 firmware. Old data loggers are not compatible with the new version console hardware. A replacement data logger would need to come from your local distributor and they will be able to tell you if it will be available for no charge.

Eric Nickl
Technical Support
Davis Instruments
510-732-7814 "

So they know they are screwing their existing customer base, and are leaving their distributors to pick up the pieces.

John
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on January 04, 2013, 02:54:05 PM
... A replacement data logger would need to come from your local distributor and they will be able to tell you if it will be available for no charge.

...
So they know they are screwing their existing customer base, and are leaving their distributors to pick up the pieces.


Not necessarily the case.  I have no inside information, but it could be that Davis is providing "exchange" loggers at no cost to its authorized distributors.

This would only "screw" customers who have purchased through other channels.

We'll presumably find out at some point.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: rdsman on January 07, 2013, 07:54:58 PM

Davis also brings out four I/O lines to the connector that aren't used for the logger (I think some might be used for the alarm module).  There is an off chance that with a logger attached, they pull one of these lines high or low to indicate new vs old.


None of pins PB4, PC4, PE2 or PE3 are tied to GND or VCC.  None of these pins are tied to each other either.  (I checked forward and reverse.)

Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: torkelmj on January 09, 2013, 05:16:56 PM
For laughs, you should press them on what these specific hardware changes are and why they did it.  For bigger laughs, ask why is it that old consoles that get sent away for refurb are upgraded to V3 firmware, after which the old loggers not to work anymore (to my understanding).

...and so we did, in a slightly different flavor:

Answer: "FW upgraded due to reliability issues and product enhancements".

Follow-up: "Should I be worried about reliability issues in FW v. 1.90 (anything I should know about?) and should I rather wait buying another console, expecting new features or enhancements in the near future?"

Answer: "No known reliability issues in FW v. 1.90, no planned enhancements."

So there we are. It's a move to sell their original loggers, nothing more.
I'll place an order for a logic analyzer shortly, any recommendations?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dewie on January 09, 2013, 06:19:30 PM
Well I bit the bullet and ordered the official data logger for my Vantage VUE. Hopefully it will be here in a couple weeks.

If there is anything I can do to help move this process along let me know. I don't have any of the hardware you folks seem to have but I am technologicically (is that even a word?) inclined to an extent.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: DeKay on January 10, 2013, 09:21:00 AM
If there is anything I can do to help move this process along let me know. I don't have any of the hardware you folks seem to have

The hardware we are using to dig into this stuff is dirt cheap.  rdsman is using an Arduino.  I paid around $20 for mine.  The usb to serial adapters, memory chips etc are even less.  Spend a few dollars and dig in.

but I am technologicically (is that even a word?)

No.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: iBangkok24 on January 11, 2013, 04:43:25 AM
rdsman, dekay.

Does any one try DIY data logger that programmed the security register with the "Green Dot" console yet?

I have a "Green Dot" Vue, but I don't have a tool to check if the console try to read the security register. If you can point me out which tools, I probably try that out.

If the console try to read the security register. As I understand AT45DB is only memory, so Davis can just have static security code. If that true so what we need to do is program a DIY logger's security register with data that rdsman provided in this post. Is my understanding correct?
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: rdsman on January 11, 2013, 07:06:15 AM

If that true so what we need to do is program a DIY logger's security register with data that rdsman provided in this post. Is my understanding correct?


This would be correct!

Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Bushman on January 11, 2013, 11:06:59 AM
This entire thread must be giving Davis conniptions!  :)
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: moehoward4 on January 11, 2013, 11:19:03 AM
Nah, I don't think so Bushman....they're up to their eyeballs with what they have done to themselves... PR, lack of communication....I don't think they have any time to check out the forum(s)......
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: jntkwx on January 14, 2013, 12:37:17 PM
Posted today on Davis' Facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Davis-Instruments-Weather/108609479156859):
Quote
Hi all, there seems to be some concern and confusion regarding Davis’ recent firmware update and Davis data loggers. Some changes in electronic components necessitated our updating the weather console firmware. If you are using a new console or a recently repaired console with an older data logger, you may experience an incompatibility. This is a rare occurrence.

It is not our intention to make you buy new data loggers. Most customers don’t need one. If you experience trouble with a new console and your Davis data logger, please contact Technical Support at (510) 732-7814 or support@davisnet.com. They are happy to work with you to problem solve and if appropriate will arrange for a new Davis data logger in exchange for your old Davis data logger.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on March 01, 2013, 12:23:18 PM
For laughs, you should press them on what these specific hardware changes are and why they did it.  For bigger laughs, ask why is it that old consoles that get sent away for refurb are upgraded to V3 firmware, after which the old loggers not to work anymore (to my understanding).

...and so we did, in a slightly different flavor:

Answer: "FW upgraded due to reliability issues and product enhancements".

Follow-up: "Should I be worried about reliability issues in FW v. 1.90 (anything I should know about?) and should I rather wait buying another console, expecting new features or enhancements in the near future?"

Answer: "No known reliability issues in FW v. 1.90, no planned enhancements."


Firmware version 3.12 is now available
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: torkelmj on March 04, 2013, 02:52:15 AM
Firmware version 3.12 is now available

...addressing one MAJOR reliability issue, it seems...

And what to make out of the crap that the Davis rep. served on a silver plate?

- "addressing reliability issues" (though no known issues, he admitted in a followup email)
- "enhancements" (not really, and no planned enhancements either)
- "hardware changes necessitated updating the firmware" (yeah, but it didn't necessitate a SPI/serial-line lockdown, did it?)

Just another sad example of damned lies being served to customers. I hope they've learned something.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on March 04, 2013, 10:32:35 AM
Firmware version 3.12 is now available

...addressing one MAJOR reliability issue, it seems...

And what to make out of the crap that the Davis rep. served on a silver plate?

- "addressing reliability issues" (though no known issues, he admitted in a followup email)
- "enhancements" (not really, and no planned enhancements either)
- "hardware changes necessitated updating the firmware" (yeah, but it didn't necessitate a SPI/serial-line lockdown, did it?)

Just another sad example of damned lies being served to customers. I hope they've learned something.

I believe you're referring to postings made by johnd, who is not (AFAIK) a spokesman for Davis.  He was quoting what Davis had told him.  I am personally grateful for those postings, because otherwise we would not have any communications.

It's also quite possible that the statements from Davis are correct, but obviously are not the "whole truth".

Please do not "shoot the messenger".

And, I sincerely hope that johnd has not "learned something" if that something is "don't say anything to customers".
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: torkelmj on March 04, 2013, 12:37:43 PM
I believe you're referring to postings made by johnd, who is not (AFAIK) a spokesman for Davis.  He was quoting what Davis had told him.  I am personally grateful for those postings, because otherwise we would not have any communications.

Wrong. Not unless he's one of the guys answering from the support(at)davisnet.com email address - under a different name.
The above statements came from that address, being just another example of meaningless corporate communications. The "reliability" (not really) and "enhancements" (not really) statements were made in two email messages received from the mentioned support address. #-o



Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Weather Display on March 04, 2013, 01:01:53 PM
Quote
Not unless he's one of the guys answering from the support(at)davisnet.com email address - under a different name.
well thats so wrong its not funny
I think you need to pull your head in

Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Ray Proudfoot on March 04, 2013, 01:58:03 PM
Wrong. Not unless he's one of the guys answering from the support(at)davisnet.com email address - under a different name.
The above statements came from that address, being just another example of meaningless corporate communications. The "reliability" (not really) and "enhancements" (not really) statements were made in two email messages received from the mentioned support address. #-o

John Dann run ProData in England and sells Davis hardware. I know because I bought my VP2 from him. He most definitely does not work for Davis.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: torkelmj on March 04, 2013, 02:37:33 PM
That came out so wrong. I'd not at all intend to indicate that johnd works for Davis Instruments. Please accept my sincere apologies.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on March 04, 2013, 06:23:56 PM
I believe you're referring to postings made by johnd, who is not (AFAIK) a spokesman for Davis.  He was quoting what Davis had told him.  I am personally grateful for those postings, because otherwise we would not have any communications.

Wrong. Not unless he's one of the guys answering from the support(at)davisnet.com email address - under a different name.
The above statements came from that address, being just another example of meaningless corporate communications. The "reliability" (not really) and "enhancements" (not really) statements were made in two email messages received from the mentioned support address. #-o


OK, please post the complete emails.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: torkelmj on March 05, 2013, 05:03:28 AM
I'd rather post an excerpt with the essential stuff - edited to make sense when reading from the top and leaving out the name of the helpful support representative:

>> (...) has been updated for greater reliability and to provide for future enhancements.

> Does the above imply that there are reliability issues with FW v. 1.90? If so, anything to be aware of?
> Also, are there plans of future enhancements not included in present consoles - dictating that we should
> await further enhancements before ordering our stations?

(...) There are no known reliability issues with 1.90, we are always updating the design and hardware
on our stations to keep up with current technology. At this point there are no plans for future
enhancements to our stations.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: dalecoy on March 05, 2013, 10:27:41 AM
I'd rather post an excerpt with the essential stuff - edited to make sense when reading from the top and leaving out the name of the helpful support representative:

>> (...) has been updated for greater reliability and to provide for future enhancements.

> Does the above imply that there are reliability issues with FW v. 1.90? If so, anything to be aware of?
> Also, are there plans of future enhancements not included in present consoles - dictating that we should
> await further enhancements before ordering our stations?

(...) There are no known reliability issues with 1.90, we are always updating the design and hardware
on our stations to keep up with current technology. At this point there are no plans for future
enhancements to our stations.


Why do you conclude:

And what to make out of the crap that the Davis rep. served on a silver plate?
...
Just another sad example of damned lies being served to customers.

1.  You asked about reliability of firmware 1.90 and got an apparently-correct answer.  You didn't ask about reliability of console hardware.

2.  You asked (implied) if customers should quit buying current hardware and were told 'no'.  What would you expect Davis to announce?

3.  You were also told that there are internal changes to the console hardware.  Do you have some reason to believe that's a lie?

Of course, we might make other/additional assumptions about Davis' reasons.  And we can easily observe and criticize that Davis has not publicly told the entire situation (compatibility, updates/downgrades, etc.).  Lots of omissions of information.  Lots of opportunities to jump to conclusions.

I just don't personally see any "crap" or "damned lies".

[Please note that I don't consider myself to be a "Davis fanboy", and that I said from the "green dot" beginning that Davis was creating a support disaster]
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: rdsman on April 27, 2013, 12:48:45 PM
Today I updated my Vantage Vue to firmware version 3.0.  My Vue is a Model Number 6250 with a Manufacturing Code of F120131D039.  Below are the steps that I performed:

I first connected a non-Davis USB interface adapter which appears as COM18 and verified communications using Hyperterm.  I powered down the Vue.  I then disconnected this and installed the Davis "Green Dot" USB logger which appears as COM11 and again verified communications.

I downloaded the DirectFromPC_Vue_3_00.exe file from the Davis website.  I attempted to run it on two different PC's (Windows XP, SP3) and all I could get was "Problem opening communications port!"  During this, I noticed that if you were using a real Serial port, the Davis firmware updater would only allow ports COM1 thru COM9.  So using Device Manager, I reconfigured the Davis logger to appear as COM1.  I then successfully updated to version 3.0. and verified communications with Hyperterm.

I powered down the Vue and reconnected the non-Davis USB adapter and powered it back up.  I was able to run the following commands:

TEST - worked.
STRMON - worked.
STRMOFF - worked.
NVER - returned 3.0.
VER - returned May 1, 2012.

Does the fact that I used a Davis logger to update the firmware change anything, I don't know.



Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on April 27, 2013, 01:13:09 PM
Today I updated my Vantage Vue to firmware version 3.0...

So, I think the only 'issue' you're flagging up here is one about compatibility of the firmware updater utility with COM port numbers higher than COM9?

The Vue console you're updating was a non-green-dot one and so there would not have been expected to be any issues either with updating it to v3.00 or using alternative loggers/interfaces.

Am I missing something?

(Incidentally, our latest batch of WL loggers no longer have green dots on the packs - I think Davis have discontinued them on all packs (ie consoles and loggers). There's been no change of hardware or firmware specification AFAIK, so henceforth it will presumably be necessary to use the logger Mfg Codes to check for compatibility.)
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: rdsman on April 28, 2013, 09:57:15 AM
Just sharing my experience.  I'll be happy to refrain from doing so...........

Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: johnd on April 28, 2013, 10:03:24 AM
Just sharing my experience.  I'll be happy to refrain from doing so...........

Sorry - please continue to do so - didn't mean to imply otherwise. The problem is that there's so much confusion around various combinations of loggers and console (green-dot and otherwise), firmware versions, alternative loggers/adapters etc that it's very helpful if posts can highlight the particular point that they're making. I was just trying to summarise to make sure that I'd understood the post accurately.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: rdsman on April 29, 2013, 12:57:41 PM
Sorry, I guess I just read it wrong!

Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Intheswamp on April 30, 2013, 11:30:58 AM
 :-|  Hmmm...  I'm considering buying my first station and have been drooling over the Davis units even though the added expense of the dongle/logger cable has me cocking my head sideways.  Now I'm seeing some controversy regarding an apparent firmware update and the expensive logger.  Since I will be buying "new" should this controversy be a problem for me?  Could/would it likely happen again in a year or two from now?   Is Davis responding to the problem in a positive way?

It's just kinda unsettling to read some of this when I'm thinking about forking over a wad of cash for one of these.  :?

Thanks,
Ed
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Intheswamp on April 30, 2013, 06:42:45 PM
You're right, Old Tele man, the selling prices and listed prices are (thankfully) two different things.  Still, it's a chunk of change...at least to me it is.  :-)

Ed
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: JACK10562 on April 30, 2013, 07:55:02 PM
Make sure you search for a "low-price quote" from whichever distributor you decide to purchase through. It can save you hundreds.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Ingineer on January 16, 2015, 01:06:52 PM
It may be possible that Davis indeed did change some hardware on the board, and the 3.0 firmware looks for this change, and if it sees this change and detects a non "green dot" logger, then it refuses to communicate.  This would explain your results.  If true, this means that only people with new revision hardware are are risk for third party datalogger troubles. 
Today I updated my Vantage Vue to firmware version 3.0.  My Vue is a Model Number 6250 with a Manufacturing Code of F120131D039.  Below are the steps that I performed:

I first connected a non-Davis USB interface adapter which appears as COM18 and verified communications using Hyperterm.  I powered down the Vue.  I then disconnected this and installed the Davis "Green Dot" USB logger which appears as COM11 and again verified communications.

I downloaded the DirectFromPC_Vue_3_00.exe file from the Davis website.  I attempted to run it on two different PC's (Windows XP, SP3) and all I could get was "Problem opening communications port!"  During this, I noticed that if you were using a real Serial port, the Davis firmware updater would only allow ports COM1 thru COM9.  So using Device Manager, I reconfigured the Davis logger to appear as COM1.  I then successfully updated to version 3.0. and verified communications with Hyperterm.

I powered down the Vue and reconnected the non-Davis USB adapter and powered it back up.  I was able to run the following commands:

TEST - worked.
STRMON - worked.
STRMOFF - worked.
NVER - returned 3.0.
VER - returned May 1, 2012.

Does the fact that I used a Davis logger to update the firmware change anything, I don't know.
Title: Re: Rumors about a new VP2 firmware blocking 3rd party dataloggers?
Post by: Ingineer on January 16, 2015, 06:18:17 PM
Sorry for reviving an old thread.  I did not find the discussion about the cracking of the algorithm until now.  (apparently the forum search doesn't work as expected)

For those finding this as I did, here's the algorithm courtesy of forum member Watson: http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=18110.msg200376#msg200376

Also, read Torkel's excellent paper documenting the whole fiasco: http://meteo.annoyingdesigns.com/DavisSPI.pdf