Author Topic: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?  (Read 2897 times)

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Offline davidmc36

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Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« on: March 01, 2022, 08:07:03 PM »
So not long ago we got Bell Fibe internet. Runs on a Home Hub 3000. There is glass up to a junction box less than a kilometer away. It is copper from there to the house.

It seemed fine for a while on the original Home Hub 2000 but started cutting out every 10 minutes at times. They said the 2000 was wrong hardware and brought the 3000. No help.

So I called tonight. He said with 35 or so devices (many just light switches) it is making collisions on the Fibe 25 service. So he got it bumped to Fibe 50 for no cost. Also is sending new modem.

So any experience with this type of connection?

Sound plausible?

I know I have added a few devices and I suppose the weather radio stream hogs quite a bit. I do have 5.8 shut down as some devices don't play well with it.

With all the devices hooked in to Alexa, three Loggers sending out, the Audio stream, she is watching the stream on TV for background noise while working through a VPN connection to the server............could traffic collide on outgoing to make like every 10 minutes shutdown......sometimes happens 10 times in a row.

I dont see it really happening in the evening though.....

Offline davidmc36

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2022, 08:15:34 PM »
And I just ordered an SLC card set up MB on a Pi as the TP-Link seems to be coming up with the endless flashing thing a lot so I figured it was failing.

Offline drrehak

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2022, 09:52:32 PM »
Don't have the same network backhaul, but can pass this along.

I have 1GB Verizon FiOS to the house.
Anywhere from 45-50 devices on the LAN at any time,
on 1GB ethernet when I can; rest
are balanced across 2.4Ghz and 2 @ 5 Ghz bands.
Also about 40+ Zwave devices bridging in.

Last Nov it started to act up.  Poked around and found my fairly decent
ASUS router was running 100% memory use (512K).  Upgraded to a new faster router (with 1GB) and all is well; Alexa occasionally looses a device for a few minutes, but don't see any issues on other traffic.  Did switch my old router into a mesh router with wired backhaul to the main router to improve wireless in the corners of the house.  I've also noted that Alexa can use a lot of bandwidth -- seen it up to .5G at times.

So I would wonder if your router is just swamped. not your backhaul or LAN.  Don't what kind of performance it can handle. 
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Offline Bashy

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2022, 10:46:18 PM »
Quick answer = yes.

But its nothing to do with your ul/dl speed.

I am in a small village and on the max connection of 72mbs dl and about 20mbs ul, i max out at about 7mb when grabbing torrents.

I also have just over 60 wifi items not including hive (zigbee) and ST (zigbee and z-wave) sensors
This includes many wifi bulbs, 2 swithces, many plugs, 7 echo devices, Yale lock, 2 cameras, 2 laptops (one is the weather server on 24/7) 5 tablets on 24/7, 2x weather hubs, aircon, watch, phone and god knows what else ive forgot about. about 30% on 5ghz, rest on 2.4.

Now, back a couple of years when i only had about 40+ items connected, i used to have issues where devices dropped out here and there. What cured it was getting a BT Whole Home 3 mesh setup (add 2 discs to the above list) 1 connected via ethernet and 2 on wifi, each disc is capable od handly around 50 or 60 devices. so my hub was getting bogged down and thats what your problem will have been, not the speed of your interweb perse, the new hub may help if it can handle more devices than your existing hub, ideally it should be wifi6, if not, then deffo get a reasoanble mesh setup.

Leave 2.4g and 5g on, the devices will use whichever they can, if its a 5g device and cant reach properly, that device will use the 2.4g, so leave both on, after all, you reall want the best possible speeds.

Thats about as far as my knowledge extends and thats only cause ive been there :)
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Offline Bashy

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2022, 10:58:00 PM »
Don't have the same network backhaul, but can pass this along.

I have 1GB Verizon FiOS to the house.
Anywhere from 45-50 devices on the LAN at any time,
on 1GB ethernet when I can; rest
are balanced across 2.4Ghz and 2 @ 5 Ghz bands.
Also about 40+ Zwave devices bridging in.

Last Nov it started to act up.  Poked around and found my fairly decent
ASUS router was running 100% memory use (512K).  Upgraded to a new faster router (with 1GB) and all is well; Alexa occasionally looses a device for a few minutes, but don't see any issues on other traffic.  Did switch my old router into a mesh router with wired backhaul to the main router to improve wireless in the corners of the house.  I've also noted that Alexa can use a lot of bandwidth -- seen it up to .5G at times.

So I would wonder if your router is just swamped. not your backhaul or LAN.  Don't what kind of performance it can handle. 

if you have Flash briefings turned on then that will constantly use the bandwidth and send it to the numbers youre seeing, also playing amazon music all day will also do the same, but not if its the odd song here and there, 1 song is about 32mb i think, average persons usage a day is prob about 100mb couple of songs and a few routines and 1 question. I play the radio from around 2-4am onwards til about  12pm on my show 10 so thats got to be using some
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Offline davidmc36

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2022, 05:52:17 AM »
I dont think I can have 5.8 running as there is a device or two that just will not function when both are broadcasting. Will have to re-check that.

So did I gather that it is proposed maybe if I off-loaded some items to another router which is ethernet connected to  main router it could smooth it out?

May try this incrementally.  Speed is supposed to kick in today. New 3000 router should be here in a few days. If it I still cutting out then try spreading things out.

Offline Bashy

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2022, 05:58:13 AM »
Some devices will only connect to 2.4 but that shouldn't mean you need to turn off 5ghz, the 2.4 devices should connect to the 2.4 band. Setting up another router as a AP  would lessen the load, I should also point out that a newer router doesn't always mean it will handle more devices, your new one might just do that, but there is a chance it could make it worse. Is the new one WiFi 6, if not then yeah, use the old one as an AP bit like a mesh or just buy a mesh setup for the new router, now that would make the world of difference, it fixed all my issues and I am I am on a, mickey mouse connection
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Offline drrehak

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2022, 02:26:07 PM »
Mesh connection of 2 or more routers with ethernet connection will give you better wireless access points.

Two routers with one for internal LAN traffic only can offload that from the main router. -- if you can isolate any traffic which is LAN only.  But otherwise, all the external traffic has to go through the main router.  Two routers in series may not help if the main router is the bottleneck.  And you need to config the main router to forward blocks of traffic to the second; unlike setting up a mesh, its not plug and play.
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Offline davidmc36

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2022, 07:44:12 PM »
Mesh Network.

I guess that's why Bell offers Pods. The router is not meant to handle that many devices  by itself.

If I have a few with Ethernet ports I can run the VOD to the other two TVs that are not near any network wire.

Offline chief-david

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2022, 10:31:36 PM »
Over the weekend, my station at school was not reporting.

Talked to tech, to see if we could fix it.

On the way to school I wondered if it was a reception problem.  There was a play over the weekend and every mic runs on 2.4.    so yeah, interference.




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Offline Bashy

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2022, 10:54:09 PM »
Over the weekend, my station at school was not reporting.

Talked to tech, to see if we could fix it.

On the way to school I wondered if it was a reception problem.  There was a play over the weekend and every mic runs on 2.4.    so yeah, interference.

Yeah, 2.4 is more susceptible to interference than the 5ghz
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Offline Bashy

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2022, 10:57:02 PM »
I dont think I can have 5.8 running

PS, i see you mention 5.8ghz, you dont happen to have a DJI drone do you? they are 2.4 and 5.8ghz, your router is 2.4 and 5ghz ;)
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Offline davidmc36

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2022, 03:43:21 AM »
No drones.

I haven't seen the promised speed bump yet.

I let the router reconfigure the network with 5.8 running. See what happens this morning, if spreading some items out to the 5.8 makes any difference.

Offline Bashy

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2022, 04:46:38 AM »
Prob will for a short time then back to dropping connections as each device fights for a place, some routers cannot handle many devices, that's why a mesh setup is the way to go really, and they are easy to do, plug and play....
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Offline davidmc36

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2022, 04:50:34 PM »
Good job the speed bump was free. Only added 7 Mbps. Of course the service is always sold as "Up to" 50.

But it sure is working better......for now anyway lol

She worked all day on the VPN and never hiccuped once.

I'm going to shop for some Mesh hardware anyway. I'm not done installing light switches..... ](*,)

What's a good value for money? I only have bungalow of 1300 square on the main floor.

Offline davidmc36

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2022, 06:27:05 PM »
...., ideally it should be wifi6,....

From what I gather its a WiFi 5. Bell's Hub 4000 is 6 and only distributed where very fast bandwidth is available.

Offline davidmc36

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2022, 06:39:27 PM »
So just after supper I saw it actually go out once. The power light turned Orange and the messages scrolled across the screen. It never actually did that before. It simply stopped providing data. That's the only blip since reconfiguring with 5.8 running.

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2022, 11:43:20 PM »
Did it auto reconnect? i was expecting your internet to be super duper speeds, sound slike ya might be less than me, yeah you are, 50mbs, shame ya didnt get the 4000 hub

I cant recommend any for you as i am in the UK and i use one call BT Whole Home, its AC2600 i think.

I dont recommend anything lower than AC2600 really as i am in a tiny bungalow, much smaller than yours, 2600 is prob 800mbs on 2.4 and around 1700mbs on 5ghz, you do not want anything lower than what your existing router is so you need to find that out. You will need 3 satellites (pods) minimum, 1 is used via ethernet to the router, the rest you position around the property to get the best coverage. And this might have been a pointless paragraph, see penultimate paragraph below...

There are many to choose from and they range in price, just make sure they are dual band or even tripple so your future proofed ;)

Do you already have the new router? if not, hold off on buying anything just yet, from what i can make out, the new router/modem is only AC1000 but looks like a tripple band i.e 2.4 and dual 5, the 2000 was only good for 36m but I am not sure about the 3000. Also bell does the mesh pods (4 $10pm rental), so find out if they will work with your new router. Its a sgecom device, same as mine but yours is lower spec.

Im only going on what i can find on the web so it might not be 100% correct
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Offline davidmc36

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2022, 04:09:31 AM »
Oh yeah. I watched the screen and it took about a minute or so to lock on again.

The problem with my speed is being small rural town the glass only comes to a junction box a few hundred meters away. The copper that comes rest of way can only do so much.

The 3000 router is tri-band with 1Gbit max throughput. Bell's Pods will work with this unit. I may inquire about them also.

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2022, 07:54:59 AM »
Oh yeah. I watched the screen and it took about a minute or so to lock on again.

The problem with my speed is being small rural town the glass only comes to a junction box a few hundred meters away. The copper that comes rest of way can only do so much.

The 3000 router is tri-band with 1Gbit max throughput. Bell's Pods will work with this unit. I may inquire about them also.

Yeah, i am only on a 72mb connection, it sometimes hits 80 though, i too am in a rural location and will prob be years before we get fibre to the door

I think that means your router is only an AC1000, prob x2 350mbs on 5ghz the rest on 2.4ghz (ish)
So prob pointles grabbing a mesh setup thats a lot higher, i.e. AC2600 cause ya router cant do it, would be a waste of money, so sommat like a Tenda MW12-3 Whole Home Mesh Wi-Fi System, Tri-band should do the job, 160 here in the UK, watch the video to give you an idea... would be much cheaper than renting simlar
« Last Edit: March 04, 2022, 07:57:32 AM by Bashy »
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Offline davidmc36

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2022, 01:04:14 PM »
But doesn't the Mesh replace the WiFi portion of the router? One of the cubes is wired to my Modem (only drawing internet through it) and it is now the main WiFi router with the other two as Remotes?

So you would have whatever is available coming in and an awsome wireless system to distribute it?

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2022, 01:29:19 PM »
But doesn't the Mesh replace the WiFi portion of the router? One of the cubes is wired to my Modem (only drawing internet through it) and it is now the main WiFi router with the other two as Remotes?

So you would have whatever is available coming in and an awsome wireless system to distribute it?

Pretty much yeah, even though the router itself assigns the ip addresses. You need a tri band mesh but don't waste money on anything higher than AC1200
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Offline davidmc36

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2022, 11:55:33 AM »
She went a day and a half with everything running and not a hiccup.

Then about Noon yesterday the laptop that runs the Wx Radio Feed did an automatic update/reboot. There is a PIN entrance so it stopped there and I lost the feed until I got home at 5 ish. I restarted the feed and about a half hour later it "went out". Nothing to do with Modem losing internet. Just all the devices on the network stopped getting internet data.

The feed is off for now but with the amount of times Alexa tells me she loses touch with a couple light switches, we need a mesh anyway.

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2022, 02:15:29 PM »
Worked good until today. Same failure mode. It's like traff8c collision within router......it never displays any error that it loses WAN connection.

Had new modem ordered but it never showed up. Some Purolator issue.

Mesh system I ordered has not appeared either.

So before leaving for YEG for four days.....I just shut it ALL down. No PWS, no SunRecorder   ...   nothing.

It seemed to be OK for about 40 mins before leaving house. Will see next couple days how She makes out.

Offline Randall Kayfes

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Re: Can many WiFi connected devices stall your internet traffic?
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2022, 03:58:44 PM »
What is your S/N Ratio on your Modem? What are the UL and DL DB's? This helps to narrow down the condition of the copper which can be a problem if the conduit got compromised. Also do you have QoS turned on, and if so what is in your priority list? What are the UL/DL ratings in the QoS (improper ratings can screw things up). Do you have OFDMA turned on which can help prioritize traffic? Do you have WMM (WiFi Multi-Media) turned on it can also help prioritize traffic. Also meshes can help ofload the demand in the CPU of the router as others have said

The last thing I want to mention is those light switches and data loggers are sending out absolutely tiny amounts of (TCP) packets. Compared to streaming and VPN amounts of UDP packets they are practically unnoticeable. VPN's and streaming are typically your real culprits.



 

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