Topic: Windows 10 and 11

[Garth Bock]

Two things that you might have already known about.

I have encountered several computers that were installed with Windows 10 Home. I found out that if you have a computer that is running Windows 10 Home and would like to upgrade it to Windows 10 Pro all you need is a Windows 7 Pro key. This works on a fresh install of Windows 10 Home. Go into Settings / System / About . (The About listing is at the bottom left of the System screen). Select Change Product Key and type in your Windows 7 Pro key. Windows 10 Home will be upgraded to Pro. I have used the same Win7 Pro key multiple times with no problems.

The big controversy about Windows 11 is all about the TPM 2.0 issue. Supposedly M$ has been asked by the government to back off to TPM 1.2 due to all of their computers that wont be able to upgrade. So far M$ is still requiring TPM 2.0. This is going to make alot of computers obsolete very quickly. Like we all need to dump our computers and buy new ones or buy a TPM module to install. I run Dells and my desktops have TPM 1.2 and Dell has not released any firmware upgrades. I found this article that may or may not apply when Windows 11 is fully released.

https://www.windowslatest.com/2021/06/28/youll-be-able-to-bypass-windows-11-tpm-2-0-requirement/

This is just something I came across.

[davidg_nz]

The CPU requirements are at this stage fairly strict too. My Thinkpad T470 laptop isn't supported because its got a 7th generation Intel CPU - Microsoft requires at least an 8th generation or newer. Requirements for AMD CPUs are similarly strict.

The 8th generation Intel CPUs weren't launched until October 2017. So regardless of TPM chip status if your PC is older than 2018 it probably won't run Windows 11.

That said I'm not seeing anything interesting in Windows 11 so far that makes me want to upgrade. Windows 10 is supported until October 2025 and by then my laptop will be 8 years old and probably in need of replacement anyway. Until then I'll probably just pretend Windows 11 doesn't exist.

[92merc]

That's pretty stupid if they cut off Gen 7.  I have 2 Gen 7 computers with TPM 2.0.  If that's the case, only my brand new weather computer can be upgraded.

[davidmc36]

That's pretty stupid...

Like they say, when MS starts making vacuum cleaners.....they will make something that doens't suck.

[Garth Bock]

Here is a list I saw of computer models that can run Windows 11.

https://www.xda-developers.com/windows-11-compatible-pc/

You remember all the harassment we endured from M$ to get us off Windows 7? The current stats put Win10 users at 64% with Win 7 at 27%. Now because of strict hardware requirements how many do you think are going to willingly replace their pc to just to run Win 11 ? Especially since Covid and the world situation and such . What do think the percentage of Win10 users will be in 2025 or beyond ? It might be time to think about something like Zorin/Mint and WINE.

[box]

Here is a list I saw of computer models that can run Windows 11.

https://www.xda-developers.com/windows-11-compatible-pc/

You remember all the harassment we endured from M$ to get us off Windows 7? The current stats put Win10 users at 64% with Win 7 at 27%. Now because of strict hardware requirements how many do you think are going to willingly replace their pc to just to run Win 11 ? Especially since Covid and the world situation and such . What do think the percentage of Win10 users will be in 2025 or beyond ? It might be time to think about something like Zorin/Mint and WINE.

I suspect the M$ trumpcard will be ongoing O365 subscriptions which will be contingent on win11

[Garth Bock]

I expect the other shoe to drop sometime. The update/upgrade from Win7 to Win10 was free. The "update" to Win11 is free (with restrictions). Soon the free ride will be over maybe with Win12 being a subscription service (M$ has hinted at this for years) or a cloud service. The costs outweigh the benefits at this point. I can see the transition to a better more secure (?) tech with no backwards compatibility but at the state the world is in right now... it's just not the right time.

[davidg_nz]

I don't know Microsoft could realistically pull off a windows subscription in the consumer space as most people these days aren't running software that strictly requires windows. A subscription might be the final push a lot of people need to buy a mac, switch to Linux or dump the PC entirely and just use their phone/tablet for facebook.

In the past Microsoft sold windows upgrades. Sold them for quite a lot. Giving away windows 10 was unprecedented for Microsoft - when was the last time they gave away something for free? Making Windows 10 and Windows 11 (for PCs that meet the requirements) upgrades free along with adding Linux binary compatibility and support for Android apps is probably a sign Microsoft realises a lot of windows users could switch to another platform if they had a reason to. The main thing keeping them on windows is that its simply the cheap and easy option - windows comes "free" with their PC and they don't have to learn something new.

Microsofts best bet at this point for making money from consumers is probably the windows app store plus services (Office 365, xbox live, xbox game pass) and maybe premium devices (surface).

[box]

I don't know Microsoft could realistically pull off a windows subscription in the consumer space as most people these days aren't running software that strictly requires windows. A subscription might be the final push a lot of people need to buy a mac, switch to Linux or dump the PC entirely and just use their phone/tablet for facebook.

In the past Microsoft sold windows upgrades. Sold them for quite a lot. Giving away windows 10 was unprecedented for Microsoft - when was the last time they gave away something for free? Making Windows 10 and Windows 11 (for PCs that meet the requirements) upgrades free along with adding Linux binary compatibility and support for Android apps is probably a sign Microsoft realises a lot of windows users could switch to another platform if they had a reason to. The main thing keeping them on windows is that its simply the cheap and easy option - windows comes "free" with their PC and they don't have to learn something new.

Microsofts best bet at this point for making money from consumers is probably the windows app store plus services (Office 365, xbox live, xbox game pass) and maybe premium devices (surface).

like most subscription services it is all about price and content

If they set a Netflix/Amazon Prime level sub with a decent av/malware included they might be able to sell it

Problem is the huge installed legacy population who will see this as a retrograde step, having already paid for Windows in their pc purchase price; as far as they are concerned this means upgrade and support forever

It is interesting how people see paying for upgrades and support as a huge negative issue when they wouldn't think twice in other markets, like cars

A subscription model with a revised hardware spec requiring a substantial investment in new equipment is probably commercial suicide, at least for residential users

[Mattk]

The subscription approach is fast becoming a pathetic disease and there will be a point where it all goes pear shaped due to the corporate greed. 

[davidmc36]

.....Office 365,....

Surprisingly enough, it actually works quite well for work. Teams, Sharepoint, 365......it's like a mentality collective.

If I could be sure the hardware would be compatible and functional (not necessarily all the blingy updates) for 10-15 yrs, I'm in.

Otherwise, I don't really NEED Windows. Some software would be lost but there are alternatives to it all.

[Garth Bock]

Microsoft has finally clarified (?) things. On older pc's that don't meet the requirements you have to do a clean install from an iso to install Win11. On pc's that meet requirements you just use the Windows update.

https://www.theverge.com/22644194/microsoft-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements-processors-changes

[box]

Microsoft has finally clarified (?) things. On older pc's that don't meet the requirements you have to do a clean install from an iso to install Win11. On pc's that meet requirements you just use the Windows update.

https://www.theverge.com/22644194/microsoft-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements-processors-changes

Looks like plenty of caveats in that article,plus you need TPM and there is the possibility that windows update won't work

Looks like I will be staying with win10

[Mapantz]

If your mobo is fairly new (say 3 or 4 years) TPM is easily enabled.

I installed Win 11 a few days ago - stable version. Runs really nice! And the best bit is, Microsoft released the Windows Android Subsystem package, and it has already gotten in to the hands of some clever folks who have done a number of things to allow Google apps to run on it. I got it working last night, installed Google Play, signed in, and downloaded some of my apps - paid etc. They work like a dream!

https://ibb.co/VWjrPdV

[Garth Bock]

 This TPM and UEFI requirement is a kick in the gut for a lot of older computer owners. Instead of a smooth transition, suddenly your computer is no longer compatible. (Sure you can run Win11 but you won't get security updates). TV commercials are showing it to be a whole new operating system (it's not) it's just an enhancement on Win10. It's supposed to be faster (not true).

https://www.techspot.com/article/2349-windows-11-performance/

As for enhanced security well I have seen some articles that looks like hackers have found ways around it. So time will tell.

Also Win10 will be getting the new App Store, Widgets and possibly the  ability to run Android apps. So what's the big deal about Win11 ?

Also remember the every other version rule of Windows ? Ever other one sucks. Win10 was great. Already they have been sending out fixes for Win11 and it has barely launched. Remember WinMe, Win8 Win Vista ? Not very successful.

So I plan on riding out Win10 to the end because  there is no need to suddenly replace my i7 Dells just to do a pretty update that offers nothing really spectacular. Also being "forced" to buy a new computer in these uncertain times is ludicrous (Covid, economy, chip shortage). By the time that Win10 is dropped Win12 will be on the horizon and things hopefully will be much better. Who knows, Linux/Wine might be able to run all M$ apps by then.

[Mapantz]

Great. Stick to Windows 10 then. You're not forced to use Windows 11. You're not forced to upgrade your hardware, either.

No new operating system is going to bug-free at launch, Windows 10 was extremely buggy when it launched, so that's not an excuse.

Every time a new version of Windows is released, the same complaints and excuses arrive.

I have personally found 11 to be much better for gaming than 10. So I'm happy with it. Then again, I am running an i9-10850K which is just over a year old, so I'd expect it to work well.

Stick to what you know.

[Garth Bock]

Microsoft is now posting instructions on how to install Win11 on unsupported pc"s.

https://medium.com/pcmag-access/microsoft-offers-tpm-2-0-bypass-to-install-windows-11-on-unsupported-pcs-67fc8180893

[asigrijenny]

I've finally decided to take the plunge and update to Windows 11. I know there were a lot of controversies surrounding this new operating system, but I figured I might as well try it. Plus, I've been hearing some good things about it in terms of gaming performance, so I'm hoping that will be a nice bonus.
I did a little bit of research before making the switch, and I ended up finding a really good deal on a cheap windows 11 pro key online from a reputable source. It was definitely a lot more affordable than I was expecting, so that was a nice surprise.
Anyway, I'm excited to start using Windows 11 and see what all the talk is about.

Admin edit: remove questionable link

[broadstairs]

Interesting reading and for me totally irrelevant, I only have one PC not running Linux and that runs Windows7. Even that one will move to Linux in the not too distant future now I have WXSim almost running under Linux/Wine (just a couple of minor issues) and CumulusMX for the station which runs flawlessly under Linux/Mono. I will eventually have zero M$ PCs 

Stuart

[Garth Bock]

Why did you buy a Win11 key ? Or did you just want to plug a website? You don't need a key if the computer has been running Win10. I am not talking an upgrade but a fresh install. I test ran Winn11 on a Dell Optiplex 7050 i7-7700 with UEFI and TPM secure boot enabled. I downloaded a Win11 iso and the Rufus utility. The Rufus utility creates a bootable pen drive and can adjust it for no TPM checking and local account only. The install went smoothly.

Now my take on Win11. Is mixed. The center menu takes getting used to after M$ shifted everything from the XP/Win7 style to the live tiles Win 8 menu. And yes I know about Classic Start. Now we have a new menu to get used to and it's like Apple. The boot time was a bit faster but not much over Win10. What cracked me up was when I opened the control panel and found.. the old Win 7 control panel. So it looks like Win11 is a cludge. If you're a gamer Win11 gives a better experience. If you're a general user... I'd wait until the end of next year. Win12 is in the works and rumored to be out in 2024/25.

[Mapantz]

What cracked me up was when I opened the control panel and found.. the old Win 7 control panel. So it looks like Win11 is a cludge.

The control panel has been the same in 7, 8 and 10. 11 uses new icons. So, I'm not sure why you would call it a cludge?!

[Garth Bock]

What cracked me up was when I opened the control panel and found.. the old Win 7 control panel. So it looks like Win11 is a cludge.

The control panel has been the same in 7, 8 and 10. 11 uses new icons. So, I'm not sure why you would call it a cludge?!

The look was refreshed in Win10 with topics like Apps, Security, etc. The look of the Win11 control panel was identical to Win7 with like Program and Features. If this is an all new operating system then why wasn't this updated as well?

[Mapantz]

Windows 11:

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Windows 10:

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Garth Bock]

Looks like yours is from an upgrade. Mine is from a fresh install of Win10 Pro. The Win11 control panel that I got from a fresh install of Win11 looks like your Win7 version. I had a fresh download of an ISO from MS.

[Mapantz]

Looks like yours is from an upgrade. Mine is from a fresh install of Win10 Pro. The Win11 control panel that I got from a fresh install of Win11 looks like your Win7 version. I had a fresh download of an ISO from MS.

That's the windows settings menu.