Author Topic: WS80 owner data anomalies...?  (Read 6546 times)

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Offline wardie

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2021, 01:38:30 PM »
On an italian forum was reported that there is a production batch of ws80 that has this problem ( not every ws80 but most of them )
On the same forum user DVD82 reported that the spike appeared both on the display and on the gateway
As you can see from my posts I see the same anomalies on both the GW1000 and the HP2551C.
Froggit HP1000SE Pro-C console (HP2551-C)
Froggit HP1000SE Pro ultrasonic multi sensor with Ecowitt EC0002 heater (WS80)
Ecowitt Anemometer 5-in-1 array (WS68)
Froggit DP80 rain gauge (WH40) with spikes
Froggit indoor temp/humidity/pressure (WH32B)
Froggit DP50 Internal temp/humidity x2 (WH31)
Ecowitt Outdoor temp/humidity & RS-00001 shield (WH32)
Froggit DP200 PM2.5 outdoor (WH41)
Ecowitt indoor CO2 PM2.5 PM10 (WH45)
Froggit DP100 soil moisture (WH51)
Froggit DP60 Lightning detector (WH57)
Froggit DP1500 server dongle (GW1000A) x2
Raspberry Pi 4 / WeeWx-GW1000 API interface
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Offline wardie

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2021, 01:41:08 PM »
What sort of frequency have folks seen this?
868MHz! Sorry could not resist that.

No set frequency, but all my events are correlated with rain and I would say its only happened once every couple of months. Only one time did I have to physically reset the unit to stop it, other times it seems to resolve itself.
Froggit HP1000SE Pro-C console (HP2551-C)
Froggit HP1000SE Pro ultrasonic multi sensor with Ecowitt EC0002 heater (WS80)
Ecowitt Anemometer 5-in-1 array (WS68)
Froggit DP80 rain gauge (WH40) with spikes
Froggit indoor temp/humidity/pressure (WH32B)
Froggit DP50 Internal temp/humidity x2 (WH31)
Ecowitt Outdoor temp/humidity & RS-00001 shield (WH32)
Froggit DP200 PM2.5 outdoor (WH41)
Ecowitt indoor CO2 PM2.5 PM10 (WH45)
Froggit DP100 soil moisture (WH51)
Froggit DP60 Lightning detector (WH57)
Froggit DP1500 server dongle (GW1000A) x2
Raspberry Pi 4 / WeeWx-GW1000 API interface
WU: IKNEBW2

Offline Mandrake

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2021, 04:00:03 AM »
OK, thanks for the replies so that definitely confirms its an anomaly caused by the sensor itself....not that I doubted folks, just that it occurred to me we had not established if it was any other cause!

Its known that ultrasonic can get upset by rain and I understand that the hydrophobic plate on the bottom of the sensor chamber was an attempt to improve that situation.
Personally my model which is pre-production does not have this and the bottom ultrasonic emitters/detectors are exposed and ironically I have yet to observe this anomaly which I am guessing is more down to luck.

However, I would think that it should be possible to code for these anomalies within the GW1000 and HP2551. The really old FineOffset stations that used to use USB to output the data were notorious for occasionally chucking out a rubbish/spurious value and software such as Cumulus had error trapping coded to ignore such values. What we need is the equivalent  of this in the receiving stations. It should not be too difficult one would think to compare the previous value and make a value decision on the data quality for wind and direction.
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Ecowitt WS80 Ultrasonic Anemometer (pre-prod test)
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Online Rover1822

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #53 on: April 16, 2021, 08:10:52 AM »
It should not be too difficult one would think to compare the previous value and make a value decision on the data quality for wind and direction.

That might be difficult with the ones from Wardie, as his don't appear to be singular spikes on occasion , but a plateau that stays over a number of readings.

« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 08:22:34 AM by Rover1822 »
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Offline davidefa

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2021, 10:22:05 AM »
One simple filter is to discard every sample greater then 143Km/h ( as most, but not all, spikes are 144Km/h ).
This also discards true ( but not so common, in my opinion ) 144Kh/h gusts.
But true solution is that Fine Offset addresses the cause of this malfunction ( the fact that sometimes the unit is 'stuck' in some condition means that something really wrong is happening in these units )

Online olicat

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2021, 11:57:49 AM »
Hi!

Quote
One simple filter is to discard every sample greater then 143Km/h ( as most, but not all, spikes are 144Km/h ).
I don't see how a simple filter would fix the problem.
My first thought was to use the last wind gust to assess whether a wind gust of 144kmh appears possible:
Code: [Select]
if current wind gust = 144kmh and last wind gust <100 {
   current wind gust = last wind gust
}
The station would have to temporarily save the last value in the RAM.

But the peaks are unfortunately not always exactly 144kmh but are variable. I already saw pictures in this thread with peaks of 87 kmh, 94.3kmh, 127kmh and 131kmh.
I also saw a picture on which the 144kmh were displayed over a very long period (2 hours).
I cannot output the value from two hours ago for two hours - that would not be a filter, it would be a lie.

Sometimes (but apparently not always!) windspeed is also affected in addition to wind gust.
And a picture can also be seen here that after a 144kmh peak, values that are clearly too low are output over a longer period of time.

At the moment I really don't know how to solve the problem in software afterwards.
Something has to be tinkered with in the firmware of the WS80 sensor. However, this only applies to future devices because we probably cannot change the firmware of the sensor ourselves.

And - as already communicated here in the forum - the Davis-US anemometers also share these problems.
So maybe an ultrasonic sensor is not suitable as an anemometer after all?

Oliver

Offline wardie

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2021, 03:37:10 PM »
Sometimes (but apparently not always!) windspeed is also affected in addition to wind gust.
And also direction seems, for me, to go to zero degrees when it happens.
And a picture can also be seen here that after a 144kmh peak, values that are clearly too low are output over a longer period of time.
Yes I had noticed that. My guess is that there must be some sort of auto-calibration going on from the raw sensor values, because it seems to rectify itself over time. But that is just speculation and I’m not an engineer nor have any knowledge of these sensors.
At the moment I really don't know how to solve the problem in software afterwards.
Something has to be tinkered with in the firmware of the WS80 sensor. However, this only applies to future devices because we probably cannot change the firmware of the sensor ourselves.
At the end of the day I would have thought software in the device is the way to go. Whatever algorithms are being used to derive the wind data could maybe be enhanced to compensate somehow for such conditions. Unless, when there is water in certain places, the sensor simply cannot return any meaningful data. But even reporting a NULL, if it can detect the sensor has an error condition, would be better than a false value - the 144kph feels a bit like a “max” output.

It does have a USB port so I would hope is upgradable in the field somehow. I have offered to try that.
Froggit HP1000SE Pro-C console (HP2551-C)
Froggit HP1000SE Pro ultrasonic multi sensor with Ecowitt EC0002 heater (WS80)
Ecowitt Anemometer 5-in-1 array (WS68)
Froggit DP80 rain gauge (WH40) with spikes
Froggit indoor temp/humidity/pressure (WH32B)
Froggit DP50 Internal temp/humidity x2 (WH31)
Ecowitt Outdoor temp/humidity & RS-00001 shield (WH32)
Froggit DP200 PM2.5 outdoor (WH41)
Ecowitt indoor CO2 PM2.5 PM10 (WH45)
Froggit DP100 soil moisture (WH51)
Froggit DP60 Lightning detector (WH57)
Froggit DP1500 server dongle (GW1000A) x2
Raspberry Pi 4 / WeeWx-GW1000 API interface
WU: IKNEBW2

Online Rover1822

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2021, 05:30:32 PM »
Wardie, from your previous graphs, some of your peaks last a while , hours in a flat high level. As Olicat alluded to, that would be almost impossible to correct in software (unless there is an actual software error) , that to me is a direct sensor issue .
Ambient:
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  WH31B(2)
  WH40E
  WH31P
EcoWitt:
  GW1100
  GW1000(4)
  WH31(2)
  WH57
  WH51(12),
  WH40
  WH5360B
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  WittBoy WS90 + GW2000
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Offline Mapantz

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2021, 01:40:23 PM »
Trying to workaround the problem via software is almost impossible. WeatherFlow spent a lot of time and effort with algorithms trying to solve the same issues, but it still occurs. Hydrophobic coatings are actually deemed a poor idea, as it can exacerbate the problem. Hydrophlic is the way to go.. Hydrophobic coatings cause water to bead up and that can add to the issue, whereas hydrophilic flattens water droplets out.


Offline Quagmire

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2021, 12:02:02 PM »
What sort of frequency have folks seen this?
868MHz! Sorry could not resist that.

No set frequency, but all my events are correlated with rain and I would say its only happened once every couple of months. Only one time did I have to physically reset the unit to stop it, other times it seems to resolve itself.

My only anomaly occurred when it wasn't raining so who knows :-k

Offline mauro63

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2021, 03:22:46 AM »
I confirm that this is a problem unfortunately common to all sensors of this type, the deposition of drops of water on the transducers or in their range of action can cause such distortions both in the speed and in the direction of the wind due to a sudden incorrect assessment of air density, the main parameter in the operation of ultrasonic anemometers.

Apart from possible software corrections, already perfectly described, Fine Offset is working on the hardware part to improve this aspect, and trying to limit the occurrence of this problem as much as possible, which I repeat, is not a defect of the Fine Offset stations but a common problem for this kind of sensors

sorry for my English
Mauro

Offline sunnysideal

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2021, 10:11:09 AM »
Looks like I'm joining the club. Only had mine a matter of days and getting 40 m/s winds on a rainy day. I'm a wee bit concerned that being in the UK I had to buy direct from Ecowitt in China, is this £100 down the drain?
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Online Rover1822

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #62 on: May 03, 2021, 10:19:51 AM »
Has anyone tried it indoors?... I am kidding :)
Ambient:
  WS-2000
  PM 2.5(2)
  WH31B(2)
  WH40E
  WH31P
EcoWitt:
  GW1100
  GW1000(4)
  WH31(2)
  WH57
  WH51(12),
  WH40
  WH5360B
  WN34S
  WittBoy WS90 + GW2000
  WS90 (other one) + GW1100
Personal Sites: Weather Cam

Offline davidefa

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2021, 10:37:41 AM »
An umbrella should be enough ; - )

@sunnysideal
Could you post another screenshot in the next few hours? It seems like it is slowly recovering
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 10:46:08 AM by davidefa »

Offline sunnysideal

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2021, 11:21:02 AM »
An umbrella should be enough ; - )

@sunnysideal
Could you post another screenshot in the next few hours? It seems like it is slowly recovering

Here you are. Interestingly the rain hasn't stopped yet...

Offline mauro63

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #65 on: May 03, 2021, 03:39:45 PM »
I have read a lot of professional comments, no doubt

EVERY ultrasonic wind sensor has the same problems, nobody can admit to had solved, the most professional sensors use a software correction, that removes the bad data before the user can read them, Fine Offset is trying the hardest way, and I mean to solve the problem on hardware, in order do not create problems to the computational algorithms

Mauro

Offline sunnysideal

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2021, 03:53:04 PM »
I had a weatherflow for a couple of months, no issues with the wind like this, just the rain detection on that was pretty awful.

Offline mauro63

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #67 on: May 03, 2021, 04:06:10 PM »
I had a weatherflow for a couple of months, no issues with the wind like this, just the rain detection on that was pretty awful.

I know, Fine offset has taken the decision to use software correction as the last attempt, we are working a lot on hardware to prevent or reduce the formation of drops on the transducers and the lower area of the sensor
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Mauro

Offline davidefa

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #68 on: May 03, 2021, 05:52:06 PM »
@sunnysideal

False alarm, no recovery in action, only a square pulse with a small dip, pulse width roughly 1h45'

Offline HansR

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2021, 11:58:50 AM »
This is a copy of my answer in a thread on the CumulusMX forum on the same problem @wardie had.

@Gyvate, @Carbonara :

I read the whole, interesting, tread. I would like to separate the spikes which are observed and the problem which is observed like by @wardie. That is similar to the problem I have. I don't think additional photo's will add anything. My photo's explaining the situation with water visible are not taken and my problem was of 5 days ago.

But let's be clear about one thing: the problem did not go away by itself (I had the longest duration, roughly nine/ten hours without touching the device). When I solved the problem, I took it down, emptied the cup (that's what it was) and the measurements resumed. I did not touch or reset software. Software will not solve this, that seems more something for incidental peak values.

I don't want to get in @Mapantzes argument that the ultrasone equipment is faulty and worthless by definition. I disagree. But apparently in some weather conditions water gathers on and below the gauze and if there is little wind it does not evaporate. Therefore I suggested a redesign to drain the water. I don't know the function of the gauze (protection of a sensor below?) but I am sure alternatives can be found. If there were a drain surely some cleaning routine would be necessary (it actually is necessary for any wind device).

Do photo's exist of the space below the gauze?

I'll put this response to the wxforum thread as well.

Offline ullises

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2021, 12:05:04 PM »
Untill it will be solved, an option to edit and corect the wind graphic in ecowwit.net would be fair.

Offline wardie

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #71 on: December 13, 2021, 05:14:01 PM »
Untill it will be solved, an option to edit and corect the wind graphic in ecowwit.net would be fair.
Well… I’ve just applied the firmware update to the WS80 (the original hardware design) so will see if that fixes it as claimed…
Froggit HP1000SE Pro-C console (HP2551-C)
Froggit HP1000SE Pro ultrasonic multi sensor with Ecowitt EC0002 heater (WS80)
Ecowitt Anemometer 5-in-1 array (WS68)
Froggit DP80 rain gauge (WH40) with spikes
Froggit indoor temp/humidity/pressure (WH32B)
Froggit DP50 Internal temp/humidity x2 (WH31)
Ecowitt Outdoor temp/humidity & RS-00001 shield (WH32)
Froggit DP200 PM2.5 outdoor (WH41)
Ecowitt indoor CO2 PM2.5 PM10 (WH45)
Froggit DP100 soil moisture (WH51)
Froggit DP60 Lightning detector (WH57)
Froggit DP1500 server dongle (GW1000A) x2
Raspberry Pi 4 / WeeWx-GW1000 API interface
WU: IKNEBW2

Offline ullises

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #72 on: December 13, 2021, 05:20:19 PM »
No fix for me.
It was ok for two months but i got 2 errors in the last week.

Offline Arkadiusz_w

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2022, 01:00:56 PM »
Unfortunately, one of my WS80s has also been affected. There were two big peaks with an unrealistic value. One for sure when there was rainfall and windy weather.

Previously, we had heavy snowfall in early April and one of my ultrasounds had no heating. Big disruptions started to appear regularly. The measurement could hang up for several hours. After a few days, the disturbance suddenly returned due to higher temperature and rainfall and strong winds. My second WS80 works fine and I have not noticed an anomaly. They were bought at a similar time, around February, March 2022.

Ecowitt WS90 1.3.8, WS80 1.2.5, Ecowitt WS68, Ecowitt WH31EP/WH32EP, WH40, WH57, WN34L, WH51, WN34D, HP2560_C, HP2550_C, GW1100, GW2000. Davis Vantage Pro 2, Davis Vue, Davis 6313, Hongyuv WDS2E

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Offline giusCB

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #74 on: April 05, 2022, 02:36:28 PM »
Try the new fw. version (march 2022 1.2.1) if your stations is near home (I hope)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 05:26:10 AM by giusCB »
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