Topic: Is a Vantage Pro 3 being developed?

[fkapp]

What I thought, but there is miles of complaints re the SHT31 and see refrence to SHT35 and 85 and people holding out for I2C bus.
Seems like VP2 is a dinosaur in terms if not keeping up (i'll admit i am do not fully understand the above bus and sensor benefits) but premium that is not current is a mind spinner

[galfert]

There is not a benefit to the I²C bus for sake of the bus itself. It isn't the bus difference that makes for a better sensor. The issue is that Senserion the manufacturer for the sensor only makes their better sensors available with the I²C bus. There are other sensor manufacturers (for temp/hum and other types of stuff like PM2.5) and the industry has pretty much embraced I²C as the standard. It is true that this is one of those issues where the VP2 is showing its age. But a Davis VP2 with SHT31 (LSS bus) is still better than an Ambient SHT30 (I²C bus) no matter what. At least you can easily replace the VP2 SHT31 for $50 and the VP2 will then continue to provide superior data.

[johnd]

I'm sure that many existing Davis customers would then not only update to the new ISS and new transmitters but also those that don't yet have a WLL. It would bring in a lot of sales from existing customers to get the new features.

I totally disagree with this - other than the few vocal critics of SHT31 on here, IMO it would make zero difference to prospective sales. YMMV and of course there might be other new features introduced at the same time that were more of a sales pull so it's rather a hypothetical question. And, let me repeat just for the record: Most of our customers' VP2 T/H sensors reach at least 5 years of service before any significant issue is reported and 10 years is not that uncommon.

But the point is perhaps moot in that I suspect the Davis EM node is more of a pointer to future interface options and includes analogue voltage & current inputs, pulse or contact closure counters, SDI-12 (probably most of the many sensors that aren't covered by the analogue inputs) and, yes, I2C. In a sense, an EM-based system might actually be a better model for a putative future VP3, but it would maybe use the EM's intrinsic ZigBee mesh network to communicate to a local receiver rather than a cellular base station.

[galfert]

I had not looked at the Enviromonitor that closely. Very nice to see I²C support! The WLL, Weatherlink.com 2.0 and the Enviromonitor shows that they aren't sitting on their laurels. VP3 is coming, the foundation is there. It has certainly taken longer than we hoped but they are certainly doing it right.

[fkapp]

Thanks re the SHT30 vs 31 vs 35. Went to Sensorian page and understand now the diff is a few 10ths of a degree or 1% or so RH based on were in range. Helps alot.
the I2C will give option for more sensors to be added but perhaps Davis will find a way to have WLL be able to receive this data from a remote transmitter kit ( i call them hub) to not require full VP2 ISS upgrade.
or at mimum make majority of sensors reusable so dont need to buy all in.

Really want to go VP2 route, but will stink if few years from now would have to go all new if Next Gen whatever is called comes out and invested a lot in non compatible VP2 sensors.
I would think a lot of people would be upset if this was case due to mass quantity of VP2 out there, unless most people have unlimited budget.

Thanks guys as I know am over analyzing this

[johnd]

Really want to go VP2 route, but will stink if few years from now would have to go all new if Next Gen whatever is called comes out and invested a lot in non compatible VP2 sensors.

I think you have to define your timescale. In 5 years, almost certainly there will be a son-of-VP2. In 1-2 years it's distinctly less likely, but no-one outside of Davis knows for sure. And then would you want to be a 1st-year guinea-pig for a brand new line of stations? (Which would of course have been well-tested, but that's no substitute for extended field testing by thousands of users in different climates around the world. Plus it's often the case that not all features, supplementary sensors etc etc are available at launch time.)

My advice would be to wait until eg January. By then the 2020 Davis catalogue is likely to have been published and you'll be able to see what new items are planned for availability in the 2020 year. There's usually at least a few new items, but sometimes minor and sometimes more major.

[fkapp]

Thanks for tip. when does Catalog usually come out in Jan?
Is Enviromonitor compatible with Wireless VP2?
Seems like path to have I2C and way to get the SHT 85 sensor to work with VP2

[johnd]

Thanks for tip. when does Catalog usually come out in Jan?

Unpredictable I'm afraid. Has occasionally been out in late December, but other years delayed for a month or two, though I think they do try and aim for Jan 1st.

Is Enviromonitor compatible with Wireless VP2?

Not as yet. It has been promised for a while and I'm guessing will really happen RSN. But you have to remember that EM uses a different wireless architecture (ZigBee IIRC) from VP2 so a VP2 wireless ISS won't be able to talk direct to an EM node without some sort of adapter. The next step may actually be to get a cabled VP2 ISS talking to an EM node. Or maybe there will be a VP2-type ISS version but fitted with a SIM board that can communicate with EM nodes. There are different possibilities that could I guess one day morph into a VP3.

[fkapp]

Thanks again.
Does WLL connect with Enviromonitor?
Maybe that will be the way to integrate

[johnd]

Does WLL connect with Enviromonitor?

Sorry, no. WLL listens to VP2 transmitters and so uses their wireless system. EM is something different. But who knows whether Davis have thought of a WLL for EM for the future

[galfert]

This is a great thread. I hope Davis is reading and taking notes.

After the VP3 (I²C support with new sensors and nicer display solution) then Davis needs to focus on the Vue 2. The fact that the individual sensors and super cap are not user replaceable parts on the Vue as they are on the VP2 is bad, very bad.

[fkapp]

I agree great discussion and hope these are already on the dev roadmap and in testing.
Too bad is so hodgepodge.  I am reading about enviromonitor gateway, and looks like is compatible with cabled VP2.
Where the costs kill you will be that the gateway requires cellular connection with exerpt of costs here:
Update Interval   Price   Product #
CDMA (US)   5 minutes   $280   6892
15 minutes   $220   6894
60 minutes   $160   6896
GSM (US/CAN)   5 minutes   $320   6892A
15 minutes   $260   6894A
60 minutes   $200   6896A.

These prices make WLL much more palletable.

Environmeter has some nice features for argiculture professionals.
Davis definitely seems to be evolving and positioning for future integrations
Based on this have to wonder if there will be a VP3, or if envirometer will be the professional grade future.
If this is the case A WLL for envirometer, or integration to existing one should be developed for people who have Internet Wifi based connectivity as not everyone needs expensing cellular option.


This is a great forum and getting me more pumped to get station up and running again

[johnd]

Remember that EM is a product line for use (primarily) in farm fields that may be some real distance (potentially several/many miles) from the farm office. So there is no option for the basic EM product but to use a cellular gateway - it's the only approach that can work pretty much anywhere. Then the data plan costs also include all the cellular comms - it's just a single all-in payment.

Cabled VP2 ISS units can be connected to an EM gateway, but not (yet) with EM nodes. (An EM system consists of a single communications gateway plus up to 80 nodes, each able to accept 4 sensor inputs.)

[Blatant plug: we are apparently the biggest EM reseller in Europe, according to Davis! So we have some experience with the EM product lines]

[fkapp]

Is 2 to 5 years the average life of STH sensor across all brands or what station has the best humidity sensor?
This sensor was demise of my WM II

[CW2274]

what station has the best humidity sensor?

My SHT31 is 5 months old and has no bias, certainly not to the degree that has been reported here before. However, that said, I'd vote the sensor that Rainwise uses. But that's Davis VP2 money as well, if not more.

[fkapp]

  Okay.how is th new single spoon rain guage accuracy? Another  new in validation item?
See several people say the use the rainwise ew111 guage with vp2, but not sure how?
Seems like rainwise is nudging ahead with sensors.  Not sure costs tho

[CW2274]

See several people say the use the rainwise ew111 guage with vp2, but not sure how?

It's as simple as twisting two wires together and plugging it into the ISS with the same type phone jack. Registers exactly the same as the stock tipper.

[fkapp]

Really easy stuff with water proof splice connector. Do you use rainwise rain guage? Does it have snow melt heater option? Or what do you use?
I have old double tipper  bucket from my wm2. May run side by side with vp2 if I go this route tocompare.
.  For the vp2 cost boggling rain guage sounds like weak pt alomg with temp sensor which is in new revalidating phase

[CW2274]

Really easy stuff with water proof splice connector. Do you use rainwise rain guage? Does it have snow melt heater option? Or what do you use?
I have old double ripper  bucket from my wm2. May run side by side with vp2 if I go this route tocompare.
.  For the vp2 cost boggling rain guage sounds like weak pt alomg with temp sensor which is in new revalidating phase

You don't need to waterproof anything, the wires are inside the bucket.
Can't comment on the heater, I'm in Tucson.
The nice think about using the RW bucket (at least for me) is that I was able to mount it on my cinder block wall an make it level as well as secure, something I couldn't do with the VP2 as it's on a tripod and was susceptible to shimmy. On paper the RW is twice as accurate (in real life, probably even better), has an 8" catch vs 6.5", and more consistent as well. Great mod, especially how easy it is to do.

[fkapp]

Any body using rainwise rainew111 guage with a heater?
What heater you using?

[CW2274]

Any body using rainwise rainew111 guage with a heater?
What heater you using?

Randy (ValentineWeather) is all over this. He'll chime in eventually.

[fkapp]

What stations or sensors run sht35 mentioned by galfert?
Is there a way to swap out sht35 with the sht31 stock sensor for vp2?
Ask as while we are discussing retrofit the vp2 and in effect creating our own Frankenstein vp3 want to go all in on mods feasible.
Thanks guys great discussion today

[CW2274]

What stations or sensors run sht35 mentioned by galfert?

Is there a way to swap out sht35 with the sht31 stock sensor for vp2?

None.

Not unless you've got a degree in electrical engineering.

[fkapp]

I have been reading more re the sensirion sensors.
Per their spec sheet here they only have one sensor not I2C: model SHT31-ARP-B which says analog

https://www.sensirion.com/fileadmin/user_upload/customers/sensirion/Dokumente/2_Humidity_Sensors/Sensirion_Humidity_Sensor_SHT3x_Table_Overview.pdf

They must have custom sensor being manfactured because VP2 specs dont match the above.
I am no expert but if all but 1 are I2C they may at some point need to evolve to this.
Wishful but sharing a thought

[galfert]

It's like this... there are three types of Sensirion temp/hum sensors.

• LSS (Legacy Sensirion Sensibus, a proprietary protocol that Davis uses)
• Analog
• I²C which is digital

Of these three types they now have stopped making the LSS type. Davis probably has stocked up on these in order to keep making the VP2 and the Vue stations and have spare parts available (only for VP2).  So yes the supply for LSS sensors is gone. Unless Davis has some special contract to be able to still order them and Sensirion is making them as a special order.  We just don't know. I hope the supply of LSS type is really gone so that Davis will be forced to switch to I²C soon.

The SHT35 never existed in any other form than digital I²C type.
The SHT85 is the same as an SHT35 that has been mounted onto a PCB that makes it easier for electronic hobbyist and probably small integrators to use. In other words the SHT35 has to be SMD (surface mounted soldering, but there is more to it as the soldering process can damage the sensor).

There are no stations with with SHT35 or SHT85 that I know of. But the Acurite and Ambient/Ecowitt stations use I²C sensors, so you could replace the SHT31 and SHT30 that each of those ship with for an SHT85 (or even an SHT35 if you've got the means).

Recently someone posted that they upgraded their Ambient/Ecowitt to SHT35. Kind of pointless in the case of Ambient/Ecowitt because in software it is limited to 10% - 99% RH range. That isn't a fault of the sensor, that is just how Ambient/Ecowitt have programmed their firmware.