Topic: The bushfires in Australia are so big they're generating their own weather

[nincehelser]

https://www.insider.com/australia-bushfires-generate-pyrocumulonimbus-thunderstorm-clouds-2019-12

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[CW2274]

I've seen this looking from my own back yard over the Rincon Mountains. It's fascinating to witness.

[Mattk]

Just keep one thing in perspective, these fires are not the worst Australia has experienced, the media is hyping up these particular fires as that is what the media do 

[Waimarie]

We are getting the smoke over in New Zealand.  It's hazy every day and at times, the colour of the sky varies from blue to grey to brown to pink.  Really weird.

Some interesting photos here https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/118551037/australian-bushfire-smoke-causes-orange-sky-for-south-canterbury
and
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118546900/blood-red-sun-greets-nz-on-new-years-day-as-australian-bushfire-smoke-stains-skies

Photo from Stuff.co.nz
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[mark_adel_oz]

Just keep one thing in perspective, these fires are not the worst Australia has experienced, the media is hyping up these particular fires as that is what the media do

Perhaps you can point out to us the year(s) that Australia has experienced fires that exceeded this intensity and distribution before the start of the New Year?

There have been larger areas burnt across Australia over a whole season, but this fire season has not even reached its peak yet, so any valid comparison must consider the same time period, otherwise it is essentially making the claim that there will be no more fires for the rest of the season.

Mark
 

[ValentineWeather]

Reports I've seen say many Australian bushfires are either arson, or suspected arson started. 

[mark_adel_oz]

Reports I've seen say many Australian bushfires are either arson, or suspected arson started.

It is certainly true that firebugs start a lot of fires across the nation and it happens every year. I don't know if the fires started by firebugs are believed to proportionally higher this season. I don't think firebugs are an exclusively Australian disease.

From what I recall there was a study a couple of years ago by the Institute of Criminology (I think ) that said about 15% of bushfires were known to be arson with about 35% suspicious. IFIRC, about 10-15% were caused by natural causes, including reignition/spot fires, with just over a 1/3 were caused accidentally (hot exhausts, sparks from grinding/welding, back-burning, campfires, etc).

Caution was advised about the results because just under half of fires did not have an clearly identified cause, but there is no doubt in the report that humans intentionally or unintentionally, caused most bushfires.

Mark

[txbayou]

I have become more informed about wildfire reading this site https://wildfiretoday.com/.

[Bushman]

Interesting how Mother Nature creates its own weather from cataclysmic events.  Cue the Climate Change histrionics. 

[mark_adel_oz]

Interesting how Mother Nature creates its own weather from cataclysmic events.  Cue the Climate Change histrionics. 

The failure to account for the Dunning-Kruger Effect easily trumps nearly all attempts of even the most expert of atmospheric scientists to convince everyone that climate change is real.

[waiukuweather]

some of the fires were started by lightning strikes (as its so dry, after Australia had its hottest and driest year on record)

[ValentineWeather]

Over the last 50 years average, Australia has actually been wetter than normal during the raining season causing extra brush growth and high fuel load. By giving into activists demands not to have controlled burns this is what can happen especially when you get a dozen or more arsonists running around starting fires.

[davidmc36]

Over the last 50 years average, Australia has actually been wetter than normal during the raining season causing extra brush growth and high fuel load. By giving into activists demands not to have controlled burns this is what can happen especially when you get a dozen or more arsonists running around starting fires.

I saw a good news magazine show they did with some indigenous people and they were showing how ill advised it was to not have controlled burns.

[mark_adel_oz]

Over the last 50 years average, Australia has actually been wetter than normal during the raining season causing extra brush growth and high fuel load. By giving into activists demands not to have controlled burns this is what can happen especially when you get a dozen or more arsonists running around starting fires.

Can I ask where you are getting this data?

It would seem that it has extrapolated the increased rainfall in Northern Australia across the whole of Australia which is inaccurate. Over the last 30 years in the southern part of Australia (where most of the fires currently are) there has been an 11% decrease in rainfall. I suggest that you read the "State of the Climate 2018" from the Bureau of Meteorology because it does not match your rainfall assertions.

It is about as likely that the "flat earth" activists will be successful, as it is that "no fuel reduction burn" activists will succeed. The Australian Government document "Current Issues Brief no. 8 2002-03
Bushfires: Is Fuel Reduction Burning the Answer?" is interesting as it addressed a lot of the issues relating to fuel load reduction burn-offs. I don't think you need fear that the "no burn" activists will get their way, except is perhaps some areas that have would receive a dubious benefit from burning off.

[Mattk]

Just keep one thing in perspective, these fires are not the worst Australia has experienced, the media is hyping up these particular fires as that is what the media do

Perhaps you can point out to us the year(s) that Australia has experienced fires that exceeded this intensity and distribution before the start of the New Year?

There have been larger areas burnt across Australia over a whole season, but this fire season has not even reached its peak yet, so any valid comparison must consider the same time period, otherwise it is essentially making the claim that there will be no more fires for the rest of the season.

Mark

Gee sounds like you are a climate change fanatic who justifies their claims on very specific and deliberate claim, when you are dead buddy you are dead and it really doesn't matter if that fire was the 31/12 or 1/1 or 2/1 you are done so try and not discredit yourself as you have absolutely no proof re your climate change claims, they are just claims and you know that also   

[Mattk]

The claims are really weird when events like this happen, all the self centred claims come to attempt so many justifications it's rather questionable, one that really does amuse me is the claim that National Park lockouts and subsequent removal of cattle have caused the all this damage, hello how long have cattle been in Oz and what did these so called national park country do before there were cattle, I'll tell you, it would have burnt regardless

Droughts and weather in general is not something people can justify in unscientific claims for funding, continually repeating the claims don't make them correct either     

[ValentineWeather]

Over the last 50 years average, Australia has actually been wetter than normal during the raining season causing extra brush growth and high fuel load. By giving into activists demands not to have controlled burns this is what can happen especially when you get a dozen or more arsonists running around starting fires.

Can I ask where you are getting this data?

I was looking at the whole continent average on rainfall going back to 1970.  Not specifically a certain region.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ValentineWeather]

https://caldronpool.com/abc-deletes-story-about-climate-protesters-halting-protection-burns-prior-to-devastating-bushfires/

[Mattk]

Lets hope nobody tries to justify temperature data based on BOM interference, anything that originally represented valid actual data has been totally manipulated (apparently ) to justify opinions based on a totally different set of so called facts   

[mark_adel_oz]

Lets hope nobody tries to justify temperature data based on BOM interference, anything that originally represented valid actual data has been totally manipulated (apparently ) to justify opinions based on a totally different set of so called facts   

Lets hope nobody tries to justify temperature data based on BOM interference, anything that originally represented valid actual data has been totally manipulated (apparently ) to justify opinions based on a totally different set of so called facts   

Over the last 50 years average, Australia has actually been wetter than normal during the raining season causing extra brush growth and high fuel load. By giving into activists demands not to have controlled burns this is what can happen especially when you get a dozen or more arsonists running around starting fires.

Can I ask where you are getting this data?

I was looking at the whole continent average on rainfall going back to 1970.  Not specifically a certain region.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

I suggest looking at the rainfall where the major fires are would be more appropriate for your comparison. Rather obviously, it is areas that are drying out that are becoming more flammable.

[Mattk]

Being a little selective aren't we really would have thought all the creditable information should be taken into account?

[mark_adel_oz]

Lets hope nobody tries to justify temperature data based on BOM interference, anything that originally represented valid actual data has been totally manipulated (apparently ) to justify opinions based on a totally different set of so called facts 

Presumably, this has to be an on-going global conspiracy where all the USA's deadly enemies are in on it with them, but not telling. 

[Mattk]

Lets hope nobody tries to justify temperature data based on BOM interference, anything that originally represented valid actual data has been totally manipulated (apparently ) to justify opinions based on a totally different set of so called facts 

Presumably, this has to be an on-going global conspiracy where all the USA's deadly enemies are in on it with them, but not telling. 

NASA and NOAA had to admit what they are doing, are you in denial?

[mark_adel_oz]

Being a little selective aren't we really would have thought all the creditable information should be taken into account?

Sorry lost context there. What "credible information" are you talking about?

Just saw your comment. I have to profess ignorance.  Where did NOAA, etc confess?

[Mattk]

Australia is one of the most fire prone countries in the world, it has always burned, it will always burn, the 1938 Black Friday fires had over 70 fatalities, destroyed 0ver 3500 homes and was one of the worst fires ever occurred in the world not just Australia but today the excusers want to blame so called climate change, people were more realistic with fires in years gone by and they did not have an agenda either