Author Topic: Redownloading data  (Read 750 times)

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Offline THE_Chris

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Redownloading data
« on: December 06, 2021, 11:25:33 AM »
Hi all, quick question. We have a good ole fashioned storm on the way tomorrow, and just in case there is a power cut - does the wind/rain pressure sensor up the pole actually store any data, or does it just send it? ie: If there is a power cut and the screen of my Froggit HP1000SE dies, is the data taken by the wind/pressure sensor lost completely, or does it store it somehow and is there a way to pull that data down later on?

My gut tells me no, if the screens are dead then that data is lost, but I figured I'd ask.

Thank a mil

Chris

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2021, 11:50:24 AM »
Sadly, they do not store data. Their basic operation to send data, they do not know if the data was received.

The intelligence is in the consoles, and depending on which ones, the only storage is on a target web site or other application. Some do have an SD card for data storage on the console, but getting that data to a website is usually not possible.

Ambient:
  WS-2000
  PM 2.5(2)
  WH31B(2)
  WH40E
  WH31P
EcoWitt:
  GW1100
  GW1000(4)
  WH31(2)
  WH57
  WH51(12),
  WH40
  WH5360B
  WN34S
  WittBoy WS90 + GW2000
  WS90 (other one) + GW1100
Personal Sites: Weather Cam

Offline Gyvate

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2021, 01:45:55 PM »
I'd suggest you get yourself a UPS (uninterrupted power supply) and - if not already existing - a microSD card for your console.
Regarding UPS
this could be the "big solution", encompassing also your router and internet access hardware and maybe even a RasPi which you use as data logger with some software like CumulusMX or weewx.
or you could go for the "medium solution" : console + data logger (e.g. Raspi) only, then you only lose your posting to weather sites
or even for the "small solution", the HP2551/HP1000SE Pro console only, then local data logging will be limited to the console itself.

For the latter a reasonably sized powerbank will suffice.
You'll need to get a connector from the power bank to the console though and keep the power bank loaded via a USB charger.
This will serve in general as a buffer also for very short power outages.
Like this you'll have the sensor array data in your console's internal memory and on the SD card - for later processing if you want to do so...
WS2350 1.6.5, GW1000(3) 1.7.6, WH2650 WiFi (2) 1.7.6 (test/backup), GW1100 2.2.3, GW2000(3) 2.2.3, HP2551 1.9.0, WN910 1.2.2;
Ecowitt WS90(2), WS80, WH40, WH65, WH31(5), WH31-EP, WN30, WN34L, WN35, WH32, WH32-EP, WH32B, WH57 [Lightning], WH41 [PM2.5] (2), WH51 (4), WH45, WH55
MeteobridgePro(2)[test,prod] 5.5 Oct 27 2022, 14855 - Blake-Larsen Sun Recorder - RPi4/weewx 4.8.0/CumulusMX 3244/Meteobridge RPi4B-2GB(2977)
Barani Meteoshield Pro, MetSpec Rad02 - Ecowitt 5763,34418;WU ISAARB3(WH4000SE), ISAARB22(HP2553), http://meshka.eu

Online Rover1822

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2021, 03:17:14 PM »
Keep in mind, if you go whole hog , and have UPS for your router, console, modem (or whatever internet interface) , if your internet goes out also with a power failure (as mine does as it is mains powered on the poles), hard to get around.

Gyvate mentioned some options, there are others, however, they do require a higher level of technical ability. Such as storing the data locally
 on your network on another system which is under your UPS.  For most users however, if the Internet is also down, not much you can really do.
Ambient:
  WS-2000
  PM 2.5(2)
  WH31B(2)
  WH40E
  WH31P
EcoWitt:
  GW1100
  GW1000(4)
  WH31(2)
  WH57
  WH51(12),
  WH40
  WH5360B
  WN34S
  WittBoy WS90 + GW2000
  WS90 (other one) + GW1100
Personal Sites: Weather Cam

Offline Bashy

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2021, 10:55:13 PM »
Keep in mind, if you go whole hog , and have UPS for your router, console, modem (or whatever internet interface) , if your internet goes out also with a power failure (as mine does as it is mains powered on the poles), hard to get around.

Gyvate mentioned some options, there are others, however, they do require a higher level of technical ability. Such as storing the data locally
 on your network on another system which is under your UPS.  For most users however, if the Internet is also down, not much you can really do.

There are a few routers out there now that also include 3g/4g so that if 1 fails it has the mobile network to fall back on, the ASUS DSL-AC88U AC3100 is a good example of this.
Kind regards
Bashy

Offline THE_Chris

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2021, 03:35:07 AM »
Thanks folks, I figured that would be the case alright.

In the end the power did go out for five hours right in the middle of the storm, so no data.

Seems to be a bit of a hole in the system TBH. Perhaps they need more active communication between base station and peripherals, or perhaps store more information on the peripherals and have them re-send the entire days data at say, midnight, to fill in any gaps caused by a power cut.

Given how infrequently we have powercuts I don't think a UPS would be needed really... I would need the base station as well as the router and modem all hooked up, its just not worth it really.

Offline Gyvate

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2021, 05:17:53 AM »
That's up to you to decide in your use case what's important and what's worth what.

I have a rather professional setup with two UPS - and my weather "branch" = 4 Raspi4, 3 GW1000, 2 WS2320E and one HP2551 consoles, a tablet, an extra 8-port switch for the weather infra only, the WiFi access point, the VPN router and an internet modem (most people nowadays have this combined in a WiFi-router-modem combo) are connected to one (a 940VA/540W UPS unit) - and this would hold for 72 minutes. If I took away the internet modem and the main VPN router, it would provide power for up to three hours, and I would still have all my data recorded and archived by my data loggers.

The absolute minimum - a little power bank for your HP2551/HP1000SE Pro console and a microSD card for the console (which you need anyway for an update of the console firmware every now and then) just costs the price for "an apple and an egg" as we say in my country (I guess the British would say "for next to nothing" or "for peanuts")  - and your data is safe at least in one place and can be rebuilt in other places from there if you want.
 
WS2350 1.6.5, GW1000(3) 1.7.6, WH2650 WiFi (2) 1.7.6 (test/backup), GW1100 2.2.3, GW2000(3) 2.2.3, HP2551 1.9.0, WN910 1.2.2;
Ecowitt WS90(2), WS80, WH40, WH65, WH31(5), WH31-EP, WN30, WN34L, WN35, WH32, WH32-EP, WH32B, WH57 [Lightning], WH41 [PM2.5] (2), WH51 (4), WH45, WH55
MeteobridgePro(2)[test,prod] 5.5 Oct 27 2022, 14855 - Blake-Larsen Sun Recorder - RPi4/weewx 4.8.0/CumulusMX 3244/Meteobridge RPi4B-2GB(2977)
Barani Meteoshield Pro, MetSpec Rad02 - Ecowitt 5763,34418;WU ISAARB3(WH4000SE), ISAARB22(HP2553), http://meshka.eu

Online Rover1822

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2021, 07:33:57 AM »
THE_Chris, where do you send your data normally ?
Ambient:
  WS-2000
  PM 2.5(2)
  WH31B(2)
  WH40E
  WH31P
EcoWitt:
  GW1100
  GW1000(4)
  WH31(2)
  WH57
  WH51(12),
  WH40
  WH5360B
  WN34S
  WittBoy WS90 + GW2000
  WS90 (other one) + GW1100
Personal Sites: Weather Cam

Offline box

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2021, 01:37:03 AM »
After our recent power cut and the discovery that my WiFi router was not plugged into the battery supported side of my UPS   #-o I have now added a second 7i00VA UPS

So I now have a mini UPS for the GW1000, which has to be located separately from my logging PC to receive data from all of my sensors. I tested that when I purchased it and it lasts 60 hours or so, unfortunately after an hour or so the data won't be going anywhere or being logged!

The logging PC (just the PC, no other devices) is on a 700VA UPS and I know that it will last about an hour. Logging is the only task running on that PC using CumulusMX

The new 700VA UPS supports the fibre modem, WiFi router/hub and telephone plus a 4way network switch and it reports  about 90 minutes for those devices. Not been tested yet but the sums seem to be about right

So my setup should be good for around an hour minimum, anything more than that would be a huge power disruption in this area and if it is that bad I suspect the UPS investment to do more would be very costly. Powerchute shuts down the logging PC at 5 minutes capacity, during our cut the other day we were down to 13 minutes (it was on battery for 57 minutes), I have moved the network switch to the new ups so we may get a few minutes more next time

The second ups also supports our telephone service (VOIP) just in case the local cell tower goes down at the same time for some reason (it didn't in our recent cut)

I think I've got as far as I can now, next stage will be looking into a raspberry pi

Offline Gyvate

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2021, 02:53:15 AM »
After our recent power cut and the discovery that my WiFi router was not plugged into the battery supported side of my UPS   #-o I have now added a second 7i00VA UPS

So I now have a mini UPS for the GW1000, which has to be located separately from my logging PC to receive data from all of my sensors. I tested that when I purchased it and it lasts 60 hours or so, unfortunately after an hour or so the data won't be going anywhere or being logged!

The logging PC (just the PC, no other devices) is on a 700VA UPS and I know that it will last about an hour. Logging is the only task running on that PC using CumulusMX

The new 700VA UPS supports the fibre modem, WiFi router/hub and telephone plus a 4way network switch and it reports  about 90 minutes for those devices. Not been tested yet but the sums seem to be about right

So my setup should be good for around an hour minimum, anything more than that would be a huge power disruption in this area and if it is that bad I suspect the UPS investment to do more would be very costly. Powerchute shuts down the logging PC at 5 minutes capacity, during our cut the other day we were down to 13 minutes (it was on battery for 57 minutes), I have moved the network switch to the new ups so we may get a few minutes more next time

The second ups also supports our telephone service (VOIP) just in case the local cell tower goes down at the same time for some reason (it didn't in our recent cut)

I think I've got as far as I can now, next stage will be looking into a raspberry pi
There's some more power saving potential:
when you move your CumulusMX to a Raspi (it also runs there on Debian 11/Raspbian 11), you will get a much longer time as it consumes comparatively little power. I did that. If you prefer Windows, you can even install Windows 11 on a Raspi and run CMX on it (I did that for test purposes with CMX, has to be a RPi4B minimum 4GB better 8 GB RAM and a max endurance microSD  card).  It runs nicely.  On a 700 VA UPS the GW1000 and the Raspi will run for many hours.
WS2350 1.6.5, GW1000(3) 1.7.6, WH2650 WiFi (2) 1.7.6 (test/backup), GW1100 2.2.3, GW2000(3) 2.2.3, HP2551 1.9.0, WN910 1.2.2;
Ecowitt WS90(2), WS80, WH40, WH65, WH31(5), WH31-EP, WN30, WN34L, WN35, WH32, WH32-EP, WH32B, WH57 [Lightning], WH41 [PM2.5] (2), WH51 (4), WH45, WH55
MeteobridgePro(2)[test,prod] 5.5 Oct 27 2022, 14855 - Blake-Larsen Sun Recorder - RPi4/weewx 4.8.0/CumulusMX 3244/Meteobridge RPi4B-2GB(2977)
Barani Meteoshield Pro, MetSpec Rad02 - Ecowitt 5763,34418;WU ISAARB3(WH4000SE), ISAARB22(HP2553), http://meshka.eu

Offline box

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2021, 05:02:26 AM »
After our recent power cut and the discovery that my WiFi router was not plugged into the battery supported side of my UPS   #-o I have now added a second 7i00VA UPS

So I now have a mini UPS for the GW1000, which has to be located separately from my logging PC to receive data from all of my sensors. I tested that when I purchased it and it lasts 60 hours or so, unfortunately after an hour or so the data won't be going anywhere or being logged!

The logging PC (just the PC, no other devices) is on a 700VA UPS and I know that it will last about an hour. Logging is the only task running on that PC using CumulusMX

The new 700VA UPS supports the fibre modem, WiFi router/hub and telephone plus a 4way network switch and it reports  about 90 minutes for those devices. Not been tested yet but the sums seem to be about right

So my setup should be good for around an hour minimum, anything more than that would be a huge power disruption in this area and if it is that bad I suspect the UPS investment to do more would be very costly. Powerchute shuts down the logging PC at 5 minutes capacity, during our cut the other day we were down to 13 minutes (it was on battery for 57 minutes), I have moved the network switch to the new ups so we may get a few minutes more next time

The second ups also supports our telephone service (VOIP) just in case the local cell tower goes down at the same time for some reason (it didn't in our recent cut)

I think I've got as far as I can now, next stage will be looking into a raspberry pi
There's some more power saving potential:
when you move your CumulusMX to a Raspi (it also runs there on Debian 11/Raspbian 11), you will get a much longer time as it consumes comparatively little power. I did that. If you prefer Windows, you can even install Windows 11 on a Raspi and run CMX on it (I did that for test purposes with CMX, has to be a RPi4B minimum 4GB better 8 GB RAM and a max endurance microSD  card).  It runs nicely.  On a 700 VA UPS the GW1000 and the Raspi will run for many hours.

Thanks for the tip

Been a long time since I dabbled in Linux!  I wasnt aware that a Rasp could run windows, not sure how you install it, I will have to investigate!

Offline Gyvate

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2021, 03:13:14 PM »
@box
look up https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-raspberry-pi
and page down to the chapter
"How to Install Windows 11 on the Raspberry Pi 4 Using a PC"
follow the instructions
I used these instructions.
As storage I am using a 128 GB microSD San Disk Max Endurance.
It is astonishingly fast on a RPi4 B 4 GB - much faster than the comments in the article and related articles made me expect.
You can also use an external SSD connected as USB drive.
Then you will have to modify the BIOS setup in order to boot from the external USB disk.
Don't use the RPi4/400 as target system but RPi4B !!! It's just an example in the article.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2021, 03:16:13 PM by Gyvate »
WS2350 1.6.5, GW1000(3) 1.7.6, WH2650 WiFi (2) 1.7.6 (test/backup), GW1100 2.2.3, GW2000(3) 2.2.3, HP2551 1.9.0, WN910 1.2.2;
Ecowitt WS90(2), WS80, WH40, WH65, WH31(5), WH31-EP, WN30, WN34L, WN35, WH32, WH32-EP, WH32B, WH57 [Lightning], WH41 [PM2.5] (2), WH51 (4), WH45, WH55
MeteobridgePro(2)[test,prod] 5.5 Oct 27 2022, 14855 - Blake-Larsen Sun Recorder - RPi4/weewx 4.8.0/CumulusMX 3244/Meteobridge RPi4B-2GB(2977)
Barani Meteoshield Pro, MetSpec Rad02 - Ecowitt 5763,34418;WU ISAARB3(WH4000SE), ISAARB22(HP2553), http://meshka.eu

Offline THE_Chris

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2021, 05:08:44 PM »
THE_Chris, where do you send your data normally ?

It goes to the Ecowitt servers. I haven't had the opportunity to set it up for Wunderground as yet, maybe someday.

Offline box

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2021, 06:08:43 PM »
@box
look up https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-raspberry-pi
and page down to the chapter
"How to Install Windows 11 on the Raspberry Pi 4 Using a PC"
follow the instructions
I used these instructions.
As storage I am using a 128 GB microSD San Disk Max Endurance.
It is astonishingly fast on a RPi4 B 4 GB - much faster than the comments in the article and related articles made me expect.
You can also use an external SSD connected as USB drive.
Then you will have to modify the BIOS setup in order to boot from the external USB disk.
Don't use the RPi4/400 as target system but RPi4B !!! It's just an example in the article.
thanks should be fun!

Offline Apollux

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2023, 07:27:15 AM »
Ecowitt sales their WS2320 console that has built-in power backup (3 x AA batteries) and saves the record on an internal non volatile memory for later retrieval through WIFI. On normal situation the data is both sent and cached locally. During a power interruption the data isn't sent to the internet but the local save keeps on as long as your AA batteries last, when power is restored the data keeps sending from that moment on. AFAIK, most internet weather servers won't access data time-stamped more than 5 minutes prior to the moment of actual data reception at the server, so there is no way to send the SD cached data to the weather service, but you can view and analyze it locally.

The catch: EcoWitt capped the WS2320 so that it ONLY works with a particular sensor array, namely their WS69 (I shaped 7-in-1 sensor). I wish they would include the built-in power backup on their others SD capable consoles  :roll:, or uncap the WS2320 to use more modern sensors.

Corrected: The WS2320 Doesn't have a SD card slot.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2023, 09:22:15 PM by Apollux »

Online olicat

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2023, 08:40:18 AM »
Hi!

Quote
EcoWitt capped the WS2320
No, Ecowitt has not artificially pruned this console. It only knows the sensors that existed at the time of launch and unfortunately there is no way for the user to update the firmware. I'm basically surprised that this console is still being sold after such a long time. Does anyone know how long this console has been on the market?

I share your desire for a battery backup in conjunction with the SD card slot. Unfortunately, all subsequent consoles only ever have one of the two. I hope Ecowitt will listen to us users when it comes to the successor to the HP25xxC.

Many users help themselves with a USB power bank or a USB UPS designed for this purpose.

Oliver

Offline Apollux

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2023, 11:34:50 AM »
Thanks for the explanation. I was under the impression that the WS2320 firmware was user upgradable.

Given the choice between having backup power or backup non volatile storage, I would also choose the storage and supply uninterrupted power by other means. Thatís why I took your advice on another thread (thank you again) and ordered the HP2560 console. (The 915 mHz version is currently on backorder with 45 days lead time, by the way :shock: )

« Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 11:37:19 AM by Apollux »

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2023, 11:39:39 AM »
Hi!

As far as I know (I don't own this device) there're also for this console 2 firmwares - the device firmware and the WIFI firmware.
The WIFI firmware is indeed user updatable - there was an update today. But the device firmware is not.

Oliver

Offline Gyvate

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2023, 12:02:36 AM »
Ecowitt sales their WS2320 console that has built-in power backup (3 x AA batteries) and a slot for a SD card to store weather logs. On normal situation the data is both sent and cached locally. During a power interruption the data isn't sent to the internet but the local save keeps on as long as your AA batteries last, when power is restored the data keeps sending from that moment on. AFAIK, most internet weather servers won't access data time-stamped more than 5 minutes prior to the moment of actual data reception at the server, so there is no way to send the SD cached data to the weather service, but you can view and analyze it locally.
Afaik the WS2320E console has NO SD card slot !
I have two of them and there is no SD card slot visible. It can store 3500 records in its internal memory though and does this also in battery mode.
If the power interruption is not just limited to the console (like unplugging the power supply), the remaining internet access infrastructure will also be impacted. None of the Ecowitt consoles will continue posting to the internet in case of power interuption - they will just stop working unless connected to an UPS system (or unless they have an inbuilt backup battery like the WS2320E) - and if the internet access infrastructure isn't covered by an UPS system either, the data even though posted by the console won't reach the external weather server(s).
« Last Edit: January 19, 2023, 12:05:38 AM by Gyvate »
WS2350 1.6.5, GW1000(3) 1.7.6, WH2650 WiFi (2) 1.7.6 (test/backup), GW1100 2.2.3, GW2000(3) 2.2.3, HP2551 1.9.0, WN910 1.2.2;
Ecowitt WS90(2), WS80, WH40, WH65, WH31(5), WH31-EP, WN30, WN34L, WN35, WH32, WH32-EP, WH32B, WH57 [Lightning], WH41 [PM2.5] (2), WH51 (4), WH45, WH55
MeteobridgePro(2)[test,prod] 5.5 Oct 27 2022, 14855 - Blake-Larsen Sun Recorder - RPi4/weewx 4.8.0/CumulusMX 3244/Meteobridge RPi4B-2GB(2977)
Barani Meteoshield Pro, MetSpec Rad02 - Ecowitt 5763,34418;WU ISAARB3(WH4000SE), ISAARB22(HP2553), http://meshka.eu

Offline wardie

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Re: Redownloading data
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2023, 04:31:05 PM »
Ecowitt sales their WS2320 console that has built-in power backup (3 x AA batteries) and a slot for a SD card to store weather logs. On normal situation the data is both sent and cached locally. During a power interruption the data isn't sent to the internet but the local save keeps on as long as your AA batteries last, when power is restored the data keeps sending from that moment on. AFAIK, most internet weather servers won't access data time-stamped more than 5 minutes prior to the moment of actual data reception at the server, so there is no way to send the SD cached data to the weather service, but you can view and analyze it locally.
Afaik the WS2320E console has NO SD card slot !
I have two of them and there is no SD card slot visible. It can store 3500 records in its internal memory though and does this also in battery mode.
If the power interruption is not just limited to the console (like unplugging the power supply), the remaining internet access infrastructure will also be impacted. None of the Ecowitt consoles will continue posting to the internet in case of power interuption - they will just stop working unless connected to an UPS system (or unless they have an inbuilt backup battery like the WS2320E) - and if the internet access infrastructure isn't covered by an UPS system either, the data even though posted by the console won't reach the external weather server(s).
My setup is that I don't bother with UPS for the HP2551 but I do have them for the GW1000's. For example the iLEPO Mini UPS I use. But as gyvate says you need to protect the whole data chain through to the "internet". So my Asus XT8 router mesh are all on their own UPSs and also is the cable modem the master connects to. The XT8 also supports failover of WAN so I use a USB 4G dongle to provide cutover, which works well (albeit with a bit of delay until it deems there's a WAN fail). Probably a bit over the top to be honest, but fun putting in resilience e.g. also for working from home.
Froggit HP1000SE Pro-C console (HP2551-C)
Froggit HP1000SE Pro ultrasonic multi sensor with Ecowitt EC0002 heater (WS80)
Ecowitt Anemometer 5-in-1 array (WS68)
Froggit DP80 rain gauge (WH40) with spikes
Froggit indoor temp/humidity/pressure (WH32B)
Froggit DP50 Internal temp/humidity x2 (WH31)
Ecowitt Outdoor temp/humidity & RS-00001 shield (WH32)
Froggit DP200 PM2.5 outdoor (WH41)
Ecowitt indoor CO2 PM2.5 PM10 (WH45)
Froggit DP100 soil moisture (WH51)
Froggit DP60 Lightning detector (WH57)
Froggit DP1500 server dongle (GW1000A) x2
Raspberry Pi 4 / WeeWx-GW1000 API interface
WU: IKNEBW2