Author Topic: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements  (Read 20710 times)

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Offline wardie

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #275 on: October 24, 2020, 06:01:16 PM »
Well, I’ve got my manual rain gauge on the case now to compare too...

Edit: only a very brief initial snapshot over last 12h but I got manual 3.3mm WH40 3.1mm WH65 3.8mm so WH40 appears a bit closer, subject to margins of error, tiny sample yada yada... Roll on another storm LOL.

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« Last Edit: October 25, 2020, 06:42:30 AM by wardie »
Froggit HP1000SE Pro-C console (HP2551-C)
Froggit HP1000SE Pro ultrasonic multi sensor with Ecowitt EC0002 heater (WS80)
Ecowitt Anemometer 5-in-1 array (WS68)
Froggit DP80 rain gauge (WH40) with spikes
Froggit indoor temp/humidity/pressure (WH32B)
Froggit DP50 Internal temp/humidity x2 (WH31)
Ecowitt Outdoor temp/humidity & RS-00001 shield (WH32)
Froggit DP200 PM2.5 outdoor (WH41)
Ecowitt indoor CO2 PM2.5 PM10 (WH45)
Froggit DP100 soil moisture (WH51)
Froggit DP60 Lightning detector (WH57)
Froggit DP1500 server dongle (GW1000A) x2
Raspberry Pi 4 / WeeWx-GW1000 API interface
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Offline LazyDogFarms

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #276 on: October 26, 2020, 04:12:22 PM »
Had a significant rainfall event this past weekend. 

Overall, the WH40 recorded 3.95 inches or rain in an eighteen (18) hour period.  The Stratus recorded 4.08 inches of rain.  The WH40 under-reported .13 inches of rain or an error of 3.27%.  The highest rainfall rate during the event was 4.06 in/hr.

Offline solartempest

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #277 on: October 26, 2020, 05:48:51 PM »
The WH40 under-reported .13 inches of rain or an error of 3.27%.
I am pretty sure the WH40 under-reports compared to the stratus for two key reasons: aerodynamic undercatch (primarily) and tipping bucket inaccuracies.

By moving simply moving my own WH40 lower by 1.2ft and across <6ft, I was able to reduce the wind/aerodynamic effects on my rain gauge significantly. Before it was under reporting by 30-40% as compared to another Ecowitt rain gauge <700m away (and generally quite a bit lower than others in the nearby area).

After the installation change, it has been registering up to 10% more rain than those local gauges. The main difference is that originally it was sited in a spot that was very susceptible to wind-induced undercatch and now it is in a sort of pseudo-pit installation. In the future, I may fabricate some wind guards but need to put a lot of thought in how they would be mounted/supported.

Of course, I do understand that this is not a strictly scientific side-by-side comparison, but 40-50% difference in rain reporting for the same types of rain gauges is quite significant. The only thing I changed in the siting was to mitigate the undercatch with exact same exposure to sky/nearly same height/etc. To me, this was a good example of how susceptible these rain gauge designs are to wind/aerodynamics.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 05:52:14 PM by solartempest »
Ecowitt GW1000, HP2553BC, WS80, WH51x4, WH41, WH45, WH40, WH32, WH31x2, WH57x2.

Offline Rover1822

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #278 on: October 26, 2020, 06:10:14 PM »
Had a significant rainfall event this past weekend. 

Overall, the WH40 recorded 3.95 inches or rain in an eighteen (18) hour period.  The Stratus recorded 4.08 inches of rain.  The WH40 under-reported .13 inches of rain or an error of 3.27%.  The highest rainfall rate during the event was 4.06 in/hr.

With the technologies involved, 3.27% error , well, I would be OK with that
Ambient:
  WS-2000
  PM 2.5(2)
  WH31B(2)
  WH40E
  WH31P
EcoWitt:
  GW1100
  GW1000(4)
  WH31(2)
  WH57
  WH51(12),
  WH40
  WH5360B
  WN34S
  WittBoy WS90 + GW2000
  WS90 (other one) + GW1100
Personal Sites: Weather Cam

Offline LazyDogFarms

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #279 on: October 26, 2020, 07:20:54 PM »
Yes, I'm pleased with the results since the firmware upgrade.  The result from this weekend, even with the high rainfall rate at the peak of the rain event, is well within the advertised accuracy of ±5%.

And as I've posted earlier, the accuracy is spot-on with the Stratus gauge during rain events with a peak rainfall rate of <2.0 in/hr.

Offline wardie

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #280 on: October 26, 2020, 07:47:05 PM »
Ah is there some way to check & update firmware on the WH40 itself? I’m on latest versions of HP2551 and GW1000.
Froggit HP1000SE Pro-C console (HP2551-C)
Froggit HP1000SE Pro ultrasonic multi sensor with Ecowitt EC0002 heater (WS80)
Ecowitt Anemometer 5-in-1 array (WS68)
Froggit DP80 rain gauge (WH40) with spikes
Froggit indoor temp/humidity/pressure (WH32B)
Froggit DP50 Internal temp/humidity x2 (WH31)
Ecowitt Outdoor temp/humidity & RS-00001 shield (WH32)
Froggit DP200 PM2.5 outdoor (WH41)
Ecowitt indoor CO2 PM2.5 PM10 (WH45)
Froggit DP100 soil moisture (WH51)
Froggit DP60 Lightning detector (WH57)
Froggit DP1500 server dongle (GW1000A) x2
Raspberry Pi 4 / WeeWx-GW1000 API interface
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Offline Mandrake

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #281 on: October 27, 2020, 04:11:04 AM »
Sorry no there is no way to alter the WH40 itself.
Any updates are done via the receiving console (GW1000/HP2551 etc) to reflect values observed

The only sensor with any kind of update capability I have seen is the WS80 and that has never had an update since launch
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Ecowitt HP2551A + WH65 Tri-Wing (Wunderground: IGUILDFO67)
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Ecowitt WH31 (x8) Thermo/Hygro Sensor
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Ecowitt WH32-EP (SHT35) + Davis 7714 Screen
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Offline C-H

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #282 on: December 27, 2020, 07:12:55 PM »
Is the consensus that the WH65 overcounts the rain?

I have been comparing the data coming from my HP1000SE setup with the official stations. After some fiddling with the calibration, the temperature, air pressure, humidity and wind direction is perfectly accurate with the nearby stations at times when the weather is the same over the whole area.

Rainfall however doesn't quite match up. I'm getting readings of 10 - 100 % more than the average of those stations. I don't think it is vibrations from wind that creates false readings as it reports 0.0 mm rain even in strong winds. I've ordered a better manual rain gauge to compare with. Any advice when calibrating the rainfall on the console?

Offline kheller2

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #283 on: August 23, 2022, 08:28:03 PM »
So I’m bumping this since I didn’t see any real resolution to questions posed and I’m in the same situation where my 65>stratus>40.  My 65 seems to be over counting more than normal and the 40 is just wonky with the rare rain I get around these parts.   I’ve done some math and changed the gain on the 40 by 11%.  So I’ll see what happens if I ever get rain again. 
Ambient Consoles: WS-2000, WS-1900, WS-1200, WS-2902C, WS-3000-X3, WS-0900-IP(observerIP), WS-1001-WIFI
Ambient Arrays: WH65B
Ambient Sensors: WH31E(3), WH31B(2), WH32B, WH31SM(2), WH31PGW, AQIN, WH31LA(3)
Ambient Spares: WH24B(2), WH25B.
Ecowitt: HP2551BU, GW1000B(dead), GW1100B(2), GW2000B
Ecowitt Sensors: WH51, WN34BL, WN34(2), WH31, WH41, WH40

Offline KD7GFL

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #284 on: August 23, 2022, 10:56:37 PM »
So I’m bumping this since I didn’t see any real resolution to questions posed and I’m in the same situation where my 65>stratus>40.  My 65 seems to be over counting more than normal and the 40 is just wonky with the rare rain I get around these parts.   I’ve done some math and changed the gain on the 40 by 11%.  So I’ll see what happens if I ever get rain again.
   

I am not sure about the many others that contributed to this thread a couple of years ago, but I can share my results.  Since there was a belief that the WH40 funnel design was a big part of the problem, I swapped the larger WH40 funnel for the WH65 funnel from my old (now retired) 2902.  I spent a lot of time tweaking the rain gain and I also know there were some changes made to the firmware which caused me to make additional adjustments after I thought I was close.  At this point, two years later, I am pretty happy with the accuracy of the WH40 with the WH65 funnel.  My Rain Gain is set at 2.39 configured this way and I would say it is consistently within 2-3% of my Stratus gauge.  Often the results are dead on or +/- .01" depending on the amount for rain.  Obviously the more rainfall the larger the difference.   

I am curious to know if anyone has been able get accurate results using the larger WH40 funnel after the firmware was adjusted. Now that I have mine adjusted I probably won't go back to the large funnel myself.
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Equipment: GW1000, WS-68, WH40 (w/WH65 Funnel for improved accuracy), WH32-EP (Davis 7714), WH-31 X 2, WH-32, WH-57, HP2551-C, and an Ambient WeatherBridge.

Offline Feek

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #285 on: August 24, 2022, 07:54:30 AM »
I've had mine up for nearly two years and I couldn't even tell you which combo I've got up now, it's been that long.  I check my figures from time to time with other nearby stations and they pretty much match up so I'm happy with it.  I went up a ladder a couple of weeks ago, replaced the battery for the first time and gave the funnel a clean.

It's good enough for me, this is what I've got.


Offline kheller2

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #286 on: August 24, 2022, 09:06:29 AM »
I actually read every message in this thread and another on the WH40 and thought for a while that perhaps designing a funnel in between the two sizes and also deeper might make it better for a variety of rain types.  I also thought of hacking in another brands mechanism to the WH40. 

For now I’ll wait and see what happens with any rain.   
Ambient Consoles: WS-2000, WS-1900, WS-1200, WS-2902C, WS-3000-X3, WS-0900-IP(observerIP), WS-1001-WIFI
Ambient Arrays: WH65B
Ambient Sensors: WH31E(3), WH31B(2), WH32B, WH31SM(2), WH31PGW, AQIN, WH31LA(3)
Ambient Spares: WH24B(2), WH25B.
Ecowitt: HP2551BU, GW1000B(dead), GW1100B(2), GW2000B
Ecowitt Sensors: WH51, WN34BL, WN34(2), WH31, WH41, WH40

Offline WXDA

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #287 on: August 24, 2022, 09:28:07 AM »
I'm transitioning from a tri-wing setup to individual sensors and have just installed a WH40. We're forecast some heavy rain tonight (I hope, we badly need it). I raised the sides by 2.5cm with some thin plastic to try and address the splashing out I read about on here so it will be interesting to see how it fares. I've not done any calibration.

I found the WH65 was not great in light rain or quick showers. My old Netatmo rain sensor had a 0.1mm resolution and a bigger funnel and it regularly recorded rain where the 65 didn't. The 65 was much better in heavy rain though.


Ecowitt setup HP2550 C Weather Station Display Console | Barani Meteoshield Pro | WH31 EP Temperature and humidity Sensor | WS68 Wireless Solar Powered Anemometer with Light & UV Sensor | WH40 Wireless Self-Emptying Rain Collector Rainfall Sensor | WH41 PM2.5 Air Quality Sensor Monitor Outdoor | WH51 Wireless Soil Moisture Sensor x3 | WH32 Indoor 3-in1 Temperature and Humidity Sensor x2 | HP10 WittCam web camera

Offline Rover1822

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #288 on: August 24, 2022, 09:34:45 AM »
MY WH40s are always in agreement with my manual gauge, except in very heavy downpours. As is discussed throughout this thread.

Do you have a manual gauge to compare to?
Ambient:
  WS-2000
  PM 2.5(2)
  WH31B(2)
  WH40E
  WH31P
EcoWitt:
  GW1100
  GW1000(4)
  WH31(2)
  WH57
  WH51(12),
  WH40
  WH5360B
  WN34S
  WittBoy WS90 + GW2000
  WS90 (other one) + GW1100
Personal Sites: Weather Cam

Offline DelChard

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #289 on: August 25, 2022, 01:31:10 PM »
OK, I also feel this post left a few loose ends, but I still bought my WH40, despite having read all the existing posts at that time.
Like most posters, I've been reasonably happy with my WH40.
As can be seen in a typical chart the increased diameter allows it to detect lighter rainfall than the WS69 and slightly quicker.
Although they can both be slow compared to my leaf wetness sensor.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

More recently, I had a 30 min episode of vertical heavyish rain and next to no wind, that I wasn't so happy with.
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I've been mulling over possibilities for a while.
1. Get a VP2 and run another weewx instance. (I had better luck spending megabucks without the requisite payback, with my old pre-retirement FD than I'd get with the current purse holder). So not a good option, and there are VP2 users using rainwise???
2. Get a rainwise, and use the gpio service to override the WH40 values. (Problem the wires, with 3 German shepherds that like to go rallying round the garden, full opposite lock, handbrake turns, four paw drifts, and crashes. Hence the reason my WH40 is 10 feet up, and why I don't have a Stratus.)
3. Add a collar, I'd fabricate from sheet aluminium, needs to be 110mm high (Can't convince myself this is the main issue and it doesn't address airflow issues)
4. Bond a Davis aerocone to the WH40 funnel (Problems; The Davis users using rainwise. The aerocone is slightly smaller in diameter, so a calibration factor would be required and nothing is known about the supposed firmware algorithm.)
5. Live with what I've got and adjust the WS69 down (without a Stratus I'm reliant on limited data that suggests a factor of about 0.9).

1 and 2 are basically out. 3 and 4 need more info to determine potential effectiveness.

Splash out.
From another post, Gyvate is waiting for some decent rain to test his printed extension.

Tipping bucket.
From info earlier in this thread, then the max rain rate calculates at just under 14 1/2 in/hr.
Rainwise spec 7.8 in/hr, Barani 23 1/2 in/hr
Early in this thread, a degree of emphasis was placed on whether the poor bucket could keep up, and the quoted 50 tips in 49 sec supports that without actually determinig whether that is achievable or what is the actual limiting factor. Early WH40s used a reed switch ( should be good for at least 200cycles/sec ).
So I thought I would try and determine the max rain rate for both gauges, factor in the different collector areas, any other difference (if any) would be the result of any algorithm in the gateway/console firmware.
The max calculated rate for the WH40 equates to 125ml of water in the 49sec reporting interval.
Dumbo here, thought he could get close with a measuring jug and a watch.
How wrong, however, this minor embarrassement did throw up an unexpected result.
My rate wasn't very even (I'm stood on a tall step ladder that wobbled at every opportunity, when I overdid the rate I noticed the bucket stopped ticking).
Out of interest I removed the funnel and slowly poured directly into the bucket, go too fast, and the bucket goes down and stays down until the flow reduces.
Of course this is of no use without an even recordable flow rate.
Now I do have controllable flow rate valves, but they are currently in use as part of my irrigation system in my greenhouses. So a better experiment will be carried out in due course.
In the short term, I decided to see what maximum rate I could persuade the gauges to produce.
I removed the funnels and manualy performed a little finger dance on each bucket.

WS69     WH40 GW   WH40 HP2550
RainRate     RainRate        RainRate
1.189     3.260            3.26
6.291     7.323            7.323
7.016     7.323            7.323
7.016     7.323            7.323
7.016     7.323            7.323
7.016     7.323            7.323
7.016     7.323            7.323
7.016     7.323            4.063
7.016     7.323   
6.732     7.323   
2.173   

Note: I did not achieve 14 1/2 in/hr, but the repeatability suggests to me that I did hit the maximum.
At least any fiddle factor used is the same in both the gateway and the console.
At this stage I'm unsure about the relationship between the WS69 max and the WH40 max, I think I was expecting to see the 2.56 relationship from the difference in diameters

Anyway I'll try to come back with results from a controlled flow on the WH40.
I'll dismount it and clamp to a low table (with the hounds indoors), use various increasing flow rates until I stall the tipper
I'll check dispensed volumes with a kitchen scale.
I hope to determine
1. The true measurable max rain rate
2. The nature of any firmware corrections (if any).

My reasons for this post, are purely selfish, I hate inaccuracy and I hate not knowing how to fix it even more.
So please, feel free to shoot me down in flames.










Offline Gyvate

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #290 on: August 26, 2022, 02:44:50 AM »
Splash out.
From another post, Gyvate is waiting for some decent rain to test his printed extension.
not much rainfall yet,  :roll:, but so far promising ...
some more and potentially stronger rainfall expected today
I have all my three EW rain gauges now monitored by weewx
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WS2350 1.6.7, GW1000(3) 1.7.7,WH2650 WiFi (2) 1.7.7 (test/backup), GW1100 2.3.1, GW2000(3) 3.1.1, HP2551 1.9.5,5.1.5;HP3500 1.7.2,WS3800 1.2.8, WN1910 1.2.3,WN1980 1.2.3;
Ecowitt WS90(2)1.3.5/1.4.0, WS80(2)1.2.5, WS68, WS69, WH40, WH31, WH31-EP, WN30, WN34L, WN35, WH32, WH32-EP, WH32B, WH57 [Lightning], WH41 [PM2.5], WH51, WH45, WH55
MeteobridgePro(2)[test,prod] 5.8 Mar 01 2024, 15185 - Blake-Larsen Sun Recorder - RPi4/weewx 4.8.0/4.10.2/CumulusMX 3283/Meteobridge RPi4B-2GB(3169)
Barani Meteoshield Pro, MetSpec Rad02 - Ecowitt 5763,34418;WU ISAARB3(WH4000SE),ISAARB22(HP2553), http://meshka.eu

Offline DelChard

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #291 on: August 26, 2022, 04:09:13 AM »
Unfortunately, I had an issue with charting rain totals in Belchertown across multiple instances.
As, at that time, I'd seen reasonable parity, I stupidly ignored it  ](*,) and kept just the WH40 total.
That event made me go back and fix the issue.

The missing data for that event:
WH40 Total 1.07"
WH69 Total 1.34" (1.2" if 0.9 proves to be the correct calibration)
Still gives me approx 10% loss in what was 30mins of reasonably heavy rainfall.

I hate to say this, but I hope you get that soaking!!

Offline Gyvate

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #292 on: August 26, 2022, 06:39:13 AM »
Unfortunately, I had an issue with charting rain totals in Belchertown across multiple instances.
That's why I don't use Belchertwon for such comparisons - just Seasons skin is perfectly fine.
Still, even there, making the Cheetah and Image generator read from a 2nd instance hosted on another server was quite some challenge until I managed the weewx settings and Python nomenclature along with needed file sharing OS settings.
The big(ger) challenge is (was for me) how to tell the Cheetahgenerator to do what I wanted it do do.
Now my GW2000 provides WS90 and WH40 data and the WS69 data is read from a remote instance.
WS2350 1.6.7, GW1000(3) 1.7.7,WH2650 WiFi (2) 1.7.7 (test/backup), GW1100 2.3.1, GW2000(3) 3.1.1, HP2551 1.9.5,5.1.5;HP3500 1.7.2,WS3800 1.2.8, WN1910 1.2.3,WN1980 1.2.3;
Ecowitt WS90(2)1.3.5/1.4.0, WS80(2)1.2.5, WS68, WS69, WH40, WH31, WH31-EP, WN30, WN34L, WN35, WH32, WH32-EP, WH32B, WH57 [Lightning], WH41 [PM2.5], WH51, WH45, WH55
MeteobridgePro(2)[test,prod] 5.8 Mar 01 2024, 15185 - Blake-Larsen Sun Recorder - RPi4/weewx 4.8.0/4.10.2/CumulusMX 3283/Meteobridge RPi4B-2GB(3169)
Barani Meteoshield Pro, MetSpec Rad02 - Ecowitt 5763,34418;WU ISAARB3(WH4000SE),ISAARB22(HP2553), http://meshka.eu

Offline DelChard

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #293 on: August 26, 2022, 07:20:55 AM »
My instances are all on the same Pi, so fairly straightforward.
I got fooled by P.O.B's comment about his unique method of calculating rain totals.
Had a look at the code, but as my python successes have been limited to adding missing sensors and a custom sunrise to sunset timeframe for the solar rad plot (basically I don't know my tuple from my elbow), mistakenly guessed that the code might not work across multiple instances, so I left it there.
If I hadn't, I'd of spotted earlier, that whilst rainRate was being populated, rain wasn't.
Deleted that conf, recreated, and everything worked.

Offline DelChard

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #294 on: August 27, 2022, 10:56:30 AM »
WoooHooo!!!!
After my 25th Aug post I tripped over this one.
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=39141.msg443179#msg443179
I also found a few youtube vids.

So, as my irrigation system is controlled by a timer, and is only in use for 5mins every 8hrs I knicked the requisite items and set to work.
For those of you not familiar with the kit, it's controlled through a simple pressure regulator feeding 1/2" tubing with a variety of fixed or variable drippers, misters etc..
Initial test...Determine the max capable rain rate of the spoon.
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With the funnel removed, I adjusted the dripper until the spoon stalled.
I then backed off the dripper a smidgen and re-attached the funnel and ran a straightforward test with no attempt to capture the volume of water.
I recorded a max rate of 13.53"/hr, incredibly close to the 14.47"/hr calculated from the 50 tips in 49sec.
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in order to prevent the locals from constructing a new age ark, I swapped my normal sensor assignments, so the chart says WS69 but it is the WH40 values.
I then had a couple of trial calibration runs prior to lunch and my final runs'
Due to the range on the scales, I opted to hold a jug under the outflow and manually move the dripper over the funnel and then off after 2mins'
As can be seen from the data this results in quite a small number of tips, which I believe has influenced the results.
But I'm still pleasantly surprised
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Offline DelChard

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #295 on: August 27, 2022, 11:15:37 AM »
Sadly, I don't think Gyvate received his rain.
So based on my prevous post, I'm happy wth the mechanical abilities of the WH40.
Also, I do not believe there is any firmware compensation.
It remains to be seen whether I opt for a straight extension, or an aerocone.
A straight extension needs to be big to meet WMO guidlines

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Offline Gyvate

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #296 on: August 27, 2022, 01:15:10 PM »
Sadly, I don't think Gyvate received his rain.
correct  :roll: - a lot of lightning counts from a by-passing thunderstorm, but the rain didn't reach my place ...
need more time and patience ...
WS2350 1.6.7, GW1000(3) 1.7.7,WH2650 WiFi (2) 1.7.7 (test/backup), GW1100 2.3.1, GW2000(3) 3.1.1, HP2551 1.9.5,5.1.5;HP3500 1.7.2,WS3800 1.2.8, WN1910 1.2.3,WN1980 1.2.3;
Ecowitt WS90(2)1.3.5/1.4.0, WS80(2)1.2.5, WS68, WS69, WH40, WH31, WH31-EP, WN30, WN34L, WN35, WH32, WH32-EP, WH32B, WH57 [Lightning], WH41 [PM2.5], WH51, WH45, WH55
MeteobridgePro(2)[test,prod] 5.8 Mar 01 2024, 15185 - Blake-Larsen Sun Recorder - RPi4/weewx 4.8.0/4.10.2/CumulusMX 3283/Meteobridge RPi4B-2GB(3169)
Barani Meteoshield Pro, MetSpec Rad02 - Ecowitt 5763,34418;WU ISAARB3(WH4000SE),ISAARB22(HP2553), http://meshka.eu

Offline DelChard

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #297 on: September 08, 2022, 07:41:43 AM »
Following my little experiment, where I concluded that the WH40 tipping mechanism was capable enough for my needs.
I've been waiting patiently (in vain) for Gyvate to perfect his rain dancing technique.
TBH, mine hasn't been any better. Lots of thunderstorms, WH57 struggling to keep up, but very little rain.
I did (based on the limited data I could find) drop my WS69 rain calibration to 0.9.
Under light rainfall the 2 gauges now track in unison, but as the rate increases the WS69 starts to register a greater total increase compared to the WH40.
But in the meantime, I've been analysing the rain funnels (including the Davis Aerocone) with respect to the WMO standard, and my own take on reality.
The WMO standard requires the lip to be positioned at 90° to the funnel surface.
Both the WH40 and WS69 funnels fail this requirement, the WH40 cone requires a 318mm extension and the WS65/69 cone requires a 123mm extension in order to meet the requirement.
Realistically, an object needs to rebound with no loss of energy, be unaffected by gravity or drag and not collide with another object. A raindrop would lose energy from deformation on contact with the funnel and to a lesser extent from drag and gravity in travelling the 370mm distance required to reach the lip of the extension (WH40). Even a hailstone would struggle.
IMO a more realistic scenario would be vertical rain bouncing off the reflected angle, requiring an extension of 110mm for the WH40 or 8mm for the WS65/69. Again assuming no loss of energy etc..
This brings me to the Davis Aerocone, which using available images and dimensions, I've reverse engineered.
The Davis blurb majors heavily on the aerodynamic benefits with just a passing reference to the fact that it meets WMO standard. In reality I believe the shape is determined by the clever way the WMO standard has been met. Stand in the middle of a circle, throw a ball, and it will bounce straight back at you. Look at the section of the aerocone, you see the same, until it transitions to a cone (roughly where the debris screen sits).
I've decided that I may as well do the job properly, which means meeting the WMO requirement.
A WH65/69 cone loses the increased sensitivity afforded by the larger diameter.
A 318mm extension is a monster.
So I've ordered an Aerocone, which thanks to Weatherspares in the UK, should be with me tomorrow.
There are other advantages. Integral bird spikes (including the central one in the filter). And the filter itself, which allows rainfall to continue to drain, even with a substantial amount of debris.
As I'm not 100% sure how I'm going to attach it, I've also ordered a WH65/69 cone.
The alternatives (as well as the explanatory sketching for the above) are shown below.
From the left to right.
1. Bonded to the top lip of a WS65/69 cone. Requires a large hole cut in the WS65/69 cone for evicting spiders etc. ,and a degree of trimming of the Aerocone attachment skirt.
2. Bonded inside the WS65/69 cone. Requires almost all of the skirt to be removed.
3. Attached to the existing WH40 cone (either by fabricating a plate for the Aerocone to lock into or adding 3 jacking screws around the skirt to lock under the WH40 cone. This is my preferred option but until the beast arrives, I won't know for sure.

A calibration factor will be required. This will either be a simple ratio of the square of the diameters, or an extended flow and weigh test as previous. I haven't completely ruled out a Stratus (probably later).

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« Last Edit: September 08, 2022, 07:44:46 AM by DelChard »

Offline Gyvate

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #298 on: September 08, 2022, 02:09:24 PM »
I've been waiting patiently (in vain) for Gyvate to perfect his rain dancing technique.
Had a few rainfall events (mainly WS90 tier 1 and 2) and am getting closer to getting the WH40 (gain 1.04) and the WS90 (FW1.1.9) and a WS90 (FW1.2.5) aligned.
But not finalized yet - the "new" experimental gain factors have to prove useful still in more events to come ...
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WH40 (1.04), WS69 (1.0), WS90 FW1.1.9 (1:0.95, 2:1.2, 3:1.2, 4:1.0, 5:1.0), WS90 FW 1.2.5 (1:0.72, 2:0.69, 3:1.0, 4:1.0, 5:1.0 - not shown in picture)

rain events haven't been such yet that tiers 3-5 would be considered
WS2350 1.6.7, GW1000(3) 1.7.7,WH2650 WiFi (2) 1.7.7 (test/backup), GW1100 2.3.1, GW2000(3) 3.1.1, HP2551 1.9.5,5.1.5;HP3500 1.7.2,WS3800 1.2.8, WN1910 1.2.3,WN1980 1.2.3;
Ecowitt WS90(2)1.3.5/1.4.0, WS80(2)1.2.5, WS68, WS69, WH40, WH31, WH31-EP, WN30, WN34L, WN35, WH32, WH32-EP, WH32B, WH57 [Lightning], WH41 [PM2.5], WH51, WH45, WH55
MeteobridgePro(2)[test,prod] 5.8 Mar 01 2024, 15185 - Blake-Larsen Sun Recorder - RPi4/weewx 4.8.0/4.10.2/CumulusMX 3283/Meteobridge RPi4B-2GB(3169)
Barani Meteoshield Pro, MetSpec Rad02 - Ecowitt 5763,34418;WU ISAARB3(WH4000SE),ISAARB22(HP2553), http://meshka.eu

Offline DelChard

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Re: WH40 vs WH65 Rain Measurements
« Reply #299 on: September 08, 2022, 02:35:29 PM »
I've been waiting patiently (in vain) for Gyvate to perfect his rain dancing technique.
Had a few rainfall events (mainly WS90 tier 1 and 2) and am getting closer to getting the WH40 (gain 1.04) and the WS90 (FW1.1.9) and a WS90 (FW1.2.5) aligned.
But not finalized yet - the "new" experimental gain factors have to prove useful still in more events to come ...
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
WH40 (1.04), WS69 (1.0), WS90 FW1.1.9 (1:0.95, 2:1.2, 3:1.2, 4:1.0, 5:1.0), WS90 FW 1.2.5 (1:0.72, 2:0.69, 3:1.0, 4:1.0, 5:1.0 - not shown in picture)

rain events haven't been such yet that tiers 3-5 would be considered
I noted that your WH40 extension is white. I'm curious to know whether that was a deliberate choice.
To my mind black seems the wrong colour for a rain funnel.

Perversly, I'm now going to want a dry spell to carry out the mods.

 

anything