Author Topic: WS80 owner data anomalies...?  (Read 6547 times)

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Offline Mapantz

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2021, 06:22:14 AM »
I don't understand why companies are bothering to continue with ultrasonic anemometers?! They are flawed, simple as that. The Weatherflow ones are exactly the same, and Davis' are also prone to crazy readings in extreme elements.

Save your money and stick to the traditional wind cups and vane.


Offline Quagmire

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2021, 09:18:46 PM »
I don't understand why companies are bothering to continue with ultrasonic anemometers?! They are flawed, simple as that. The Weatherflow ones are exactly the same, and Davis' are also prone to crazy readings in extreme elements.

Save your money and stick to the traditional wind cups and vane.

I'm not sure the odd erroneous value is enough to warrant calling all ultrasonic anemometers flawed. I personally gravitated towards the WS80 because I was interested in a device without moving parts. Here in Atlantic Canada, our winters are long and nasty; most of our precip is freezing rain and/or wet snow followed by rapid deep-freezes. Essentially, everything is encrusted in multiple layers of ice for months on end so unless you clean off anything you deem important immediately after each storm, it will be rendered useless until spring.

I would have preferred the WS68 with its cool looking spinning cups and moving weather vane but wasn't confident it would be able to operate without significant downtime in this climate so I chose the WS80 with its built in heater. So far, it has performed without interruption (and no erroneous readings) since I put it up in early January. My WS40 on the other hand :roll: I guess it's flawed.

Offline Mandrake

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2021, 03:29:12 AM »
Glad to hear that!
By the way some folks have modded the WS40 with a low level heater to keep that functioning in your more extreme climates.
I think that's a cool mod that Ecowitt should consider for a future variant of the WS40 rain gauge.
If you search I am sure that you will find it on here.
G1ZFO

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Offline wardie

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2021, 06:57:08 AM »
I'm not sure the odd erroneous value is enough to warrant calling all ultrasonic anemometers flawed. I personally gravitated towards the WS80 because I was interested in a device without moving parts. Here in Atlantic Canada, our winters are long and nasty; most of our precip is freezing rain and/or wet snow followed by rapid deep-freezes. Essentially, everything is encrusted in multiple layers of ice for months on end so unless you clean off anything you deem important immediately after each storm, it will be rendered useless until spring.
In those conditions do you find the top of the WS80 dome stays clear enough for the solar panels to function? I'd be concerned about that frosting over and limiting the power into the PV cells, eventually draining the batteries. From what I saw in a cold spell here (well, relative for UK) the heater kept the area of the sensor clear OK but I doubt it was transmitting much heat up to the top section of the device... which you can see in the awesome thermal imaging in this post #59 here:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=40977.msg422578#msg422578
Froggit HP1000SE Pro-C console (HP2551-C)
Froggit HP1000SE Pro ultrasonic multi sensor with Ecowitt EC0002 heater (WS80)
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Offline Mapantz

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2021, 08:32:39 AM »
I'm not sure the odd erroneous value is enough to warrant calling all ultrasonic anemometers flawed.

I think you should do some searching then.. it's not the "odd" value, there's discussions regarding all ultrasonic anemometers, Netatmo, WeatherFlow, Davis.. they all suffer the same problems.

Rain and airborne debris in strong winds are a substantial pitfall for them.


Offline Quagmire

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2021, 01:15:29 PM »
Glad to hear that!
By the way some folks have modded the WS40 with a low level heater to keep that functioning in your more extreme climates.
I think that's a cool mod that Ecowitt should consider for a future variant of the WS40 rain gauge.
If you search I am sure that you will find it on here.

Thanks. Yes I'm in the process of adding a heater to my WS40. I've read the (very long) thread on the Davis area of the forum and got some ideas. Sadly, the WS40's bucket is tiny in comparison to the Davis so a reptile heater cord will not fit. Got some Nichrome wire which I think will do the trick.

In those conditions do you find the top of the WS80 dome stays clear enough for the solar panels to function? I'd be concerned about that frosting over and limiting the power into the PV cells, eventually draining the batteries. From what I saw in a cold spell here (well, relative for UK) the heater kept the area of the sensor clear OK but I doubt it was transmitting much heat up to the top section of the device... which you can see in the awesome thermal imaging in this post #59 here:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=40977.msg422578#msg422578

The top of the WS80 can stay iced up for quite a few days after a storm but I use Energizer Lithiums in the unit so I'm not worried about power. I'll change them out once a year.

I think you should do some searching then.. it's not the "odd" value, there's discussions regarding all ultrasonic anemometers, Netatmo, WeatherFlow, Davis.. they all suffer the same problems.

I've read all the topics I can and I'm aware of the issues. I'm not saying ultrasonic anemometers are without fault, just that like any device subject to the whims of mother nature, there's no perfect one for every climate. My snowblower, which is expressly designed to deal with winter, is always needing maintenance and repairs: carburetor icing, belts slipping, ice build-up in the chute, throttle cables frozen and stuck, shear pins...sheared etc. etc. etc. Is it faulty? Nah, it's just that our climate is extremely hard on anything. Speaking of, the attached pic is what my car looked like yesterday (today it's covered in more snow).  :lol:

Rain and airborne debris in strong winds are a substantial pitfall for them.

About the only type of weather we don't get here. Winds over 60 Km/h are rare in my immediate area so rain being driven sideways is not common. Snow flying sideways and every which way? We get truckloads and so far, no devious snowflake has caused any crazy readings. Must be something to do with raindrops.

Offline Mandrake

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2021, 04:16:16 AM »
There was some tips here for the ws40 heater mod:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=38366.0

I am sure there was some more posts that showed the mod in place but I cant seem to find them for now
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Offline giusCB

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2021, 05:31:48 AM »
The best WS ever had...i will recomend it to everybody...7th 144kmh error in 60 days...considering sending back to Froggit...

I've also noticed it is correlated with moderate rain events and gusty conditions - see the graphs - so maybe the sensor is getting disrupted by water somehow, I don't know.


very simply, this is the problem. There isn't a solution to this, also ecowitt/fineoffset know this.
I hope in a new version of a ws68 with stainless construction for surviving in every condition  [tup]
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Offline wardie

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2021, 09:20:41 PM »
How funny, I was just catching up on the forum and reading this thread. I had another spike a couple of days ago, again correlated with medium winds (say 30-50kph) and a rain shower. But I didn’t have time to post it yet. I just went to my HP2551C and look... reasonably stormy outside and just started raining...
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Froggit HP1000SE Pro-C console (HP2551-C)
Froggit HP1000SE Pro ultrasonic multi sensor with Ecowitt EC0002 heater (WS80)
Ecowitt Anemometer 5-in-1 array (WS68)
Froggit DP80 rain gauge (WH40) with spikes
Froggit indoor temp/humidity/pressure (WH32B)
Froggit DP50 Internal temp/humidity x2 (WH31)
Ecowitt Outdoor temp/humidity & RS-00001 shield (WH32)
Froggit DP200 PM2.5 outdoor (WH41)
Ecowitt indoor CO2 PM2.5 PM10 (WH45)
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Offline wardie

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2021, 05:00:26 AM »
And here’s the data from the last two spikes. Given that I have this all on dashboards I can easily see the correlation with rain events (dark blue line, top) and it is there - at least for me. Also now I can compare it to my adjacent WS68 (light blue lines) vs WS80 (pink lines) which is plotted on the same graphs.

I’m also really thinking I should switch by upload of data to public web services to the WS68.

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Froggit HP1000SE Pro-C console (HP2551-C)
Froggit HP1000SE Pro ultrasonic multi sensor with Ecowitt EC0002 heater (WS80)
Ecowitt Anemometer 5-in-1 array (WS68)
Froggit DP80 rain gauge (WH40) with spikes
Froggit indoor temp/humidity/pressure (WH32B)
Froggit DP50 Internal temp/humidity x2 (WH31)
Ecowitt Outdoor temp/humidity & RS-00001 shield (WH32)
Froggit DP200 PM2.5 outdoor (WH41)
Ecowitt indoor CO2 PM2.5 PM10 (WH45)
Froggit DP100 soil moisture (WH51)
Froggit DP60 Lightning detector (WH57)
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Offline Mandrake

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2021, 12:16:48 PM »
I am sorry that you are seeing these errors.
I really cannot understand how I am so lucky not to have seen this behaviour.
Apart from the low battery situation I have observed mine really has been faultless.
G1ZFO

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Ecowitt WS80 Ultrasonic Anemometer (pre-prod test)
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Offline wardie

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2021, 05:23:09 AM »
I am sorry that you are seeing these errors.
I really cannot understand how I am so lucky not to have seen this behaviour.
Apart from the low battery situation I have observed mine really has been faultless.
Lucy too me that there are apparently two slightly different versions of the WS80 although hard to tell them apart externally. I’m trying to ascertain which I have from the dates from Froggit but n luck so far... I’ll keep talking to Lucy to see where it leads... she suspected both my original and replacement WS80 were the older type. But I have no details behind that.
Froggit HP1000SE Pro-C console (HP2551-C)
Froggit HP1000SE Pro ultrasonic multi sensor with Ecowitt EC0002 heater (WS80)
Ecowitt Anemometer 5-in-1 array (WS68)
Froggit DP80 rain gauge (WH40) with spikes
Froggit indoor temp/humidity/pressure (WH32B)
Froggit DP50 Internal temp/humidity x2 (WH31)
Ecowitt Outdoor temp/humidity & RS-00001 shield (WH32)
Froggit DP200 PM2.5 outdoor (WH41)
Ecowitt indoor CO2 PM2.5 PM10 (WH45)
Froggit DP100 soil moisture (WH51)
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Offline Mandrake

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2021, 07:22:09 AM »
Well you cant get any older than mine as it was a pre-production unit and is slightly differerent from production. It does not have a heat plate or the screening over the sensors for instance.
G1ZFO

Ecowitt HP2551A + WH65 Tri-Wing (Wunderground: IGUILDFO67)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Wunderground: IGUILDFO68)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Mk2) test environment driving CumulusMX on a RPi 3b
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Ecowitt WS90 Wittboy - Test
Ecowitt WH51 (x6) Soil Moisture Sensor
Ecowitt WH41 PM2.5 AQM Sensor
Ecowitt WH31 (x8) Thermo/Hygro Sensor
Ecowitt WS80 Ultrasonic Anemometer (pre-prod test)
Ecowitt WH57 Lightning Sensor -test
Ecowitt WH32-EP (SHT35) + Davis 7714 Screen
Ecowitt WH45 CO2/PM2.5/PM10 -Test
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Offline wardie

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2021, 01:01:45 PM »
Well bit of an update on this... With the help of @mauro63 (thanks) we talked to the Fine Offset techs. Looks like it could be caused by excess water build up around the sensor. So anyway upon advice I've just applied a liberal coating of lubricant to both the sensors and the gauze to see what happens. No rain as yet, but wind data reporting looks normal. Interesting to see if this is a workaround.
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Froggit HP1000SE Pro-C console (HP2551-C)
Froggit HP1000SE Pro ultrasonic multi sensor with Ecowitt EC0002 heater (WS80)
Ecowitt Anemometer 5-in-1 array (WS68)
Froggit DP80 rain gauge (WH40) with spikes
Froggit indoor temp/humidity/pressure (WH32B)
Froggit DP50 Internal temp/humidity x2 (WH31)
Ecowitt Outdoor temp/humidity & RS-00001 shield (WH32)
Froggit DP200 PM2.5 outdoor (WH41)
Ecowitt indoor CO2 PM2.5 PM10 (WH45)
Froggit DP100 soil moisture (WH51)
Froggit DP60 Lightning detector (WH57)
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Online Rover1822

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2021, 01:05:47 PM »
Looking at the lubricant you used, a dry PTFE, can't in my head, hurt. :)
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Offline giusCB

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2021, 12:40:36 PM »
Well bit of an update on this... With the help of @mauro63 (thanks) we talked to the Fine Offset techs. Looks like it could be caused by excess water build up around the sensor. So anyway upon advice I've just applied a liberal coating of lubricant to both the sensors and the gauze to see what happens. No rain as yet, but wind data reporting looks normal. Interesting to see if this is a workaround.
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you've put the ptfe directly on transducer?
please keep us updated, it will be very useful for many ws80 owners!  UU
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Offline wardie

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2021, 05:26:32 PM »
you've put the ptfe directly on transducer?
please keep us updated, it will be very useful for many ws80 owners!  UU
Yes that is what I did, as advised. I will see what happens. Need some decent April showers to test it out! Unlike the flakes of snow (!!!) today in Hertfordshire, not the Highlands.
Froggit HP1000SE Pro-C console (HP2551-C)
Froggit HP1000SE Pro ultrasonic multi sensor with Ecowitt EC0002 heater (WS80)
Ecowitt Anemometer 5-in-1 array (WS68)
Froggit DP80 rain gauge (WH40) with spikes
Froggit indoor temp/humidity/pressure (WH32B)
Froggit DP50 Internal temp/humidity x2 (WH31)
Ecowitt Outdoor temp/humidity & RS-00001 shield (WH32)
Froggit DP200 PM2.5 outdoor (WH41)
Ecowitt indoor CO2 PM2.5 PM10 (WH45)
Froggit DP100 soil moisture (WH51)
Froggit DP60 Lightning detector (WH57)
Froggit DP1500 server dongle (GW1000A) x2
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Offline ramblinche81

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2021, 08:35:40 PM »
I will jump in only due to my previous quality control calibration and process capability experiences.


Data is data. The machine does not fabricate or create random data.  As others noted, debris, water, moisture,pole vibrations, a variety of interferences likely, but the device is highly unlikely to create a random stray data point electronically. The SENSOR responds to an environment.

Related to global warming analytics there were researchers who discarded spurious data without considering the validity. It is as much art as science to say a data element doesn't fit and could should be discarded. Maybe it was a real reading and should not be discarded. The scientist has to have some awareness if the data point is possible, not just likely.

There was an extensive thread related to rain measurement variability. I won't call it error. It is variability.

So, given the nature of the site placement  and adjacent structures, it is possible there are turbulences which mimic the readings shown.

It is risky science to say it is bad data.
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Offline wardie

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2021, 06:28:35 PM »
I do understand the sensor point you make but the instrument is clearly in some situations not accurately measuring the real wind velocity through it, for whatever reason. If I was experiencing sustained 144kph winds around my house I would know about it! I also have a second sensor nearby to compare.
Froggit HP1000SE Pro-C console (HP2551-C)
Froggit HP1000SE Pro ultrasonic multi sensor with Ecowitt EC0002 heater (WS80)
Ecowitt Anemometer 5-in-1 array (WS68)
Froggit DP80 rain gauge (WH40) with spikes
Froggit indoor temp/humidity/pressure (WH32B)
Froggit DP50 Internal temp/humidity x2 (WH31)
Ecowitt Outdoor temp/humidity & RS-00001 shield (WH32)
Froggit DP200 PM2.5 outdoor (WH41)
Ecowitt indoor CO2 PM2.5 PM10 (WH45)
Froggit DP100 soil moisture (WH51)
Froggit DP60 Lightning detector (WH57)
Froggit DP1500 server dongle (GW1000A) x2
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Offline ramblinche81

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2021, 09:15:48 PM »
I do understand the sensor point you make but the instrument is clearly in some situations not accurately measuring the real wind velocity through it, for whatever reason. If I was experiencing sustained 144kph winds around my house I would know about it! I also have a second sensor nearby to compare.

The reading is the reading. I doubt it suffers a electrostatic discharge in the circuitry which sparks an erroneous voltage variance etc etc

Note vibration harmonics are additive. A steel pole vibrating at a frequency will.add frequency to sensor values. A sheet of water flowing has 100 times the density of the air. Conservation of momentum.says a sheet.of water.will induce vibration 100x bigger than air.

I am not saying that is the speed.of air. I am only saying.that is the reading the sensor experienced. The challenge is figure.out the root cause..
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Offline ullises

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2021, 08:37:50 AM »
Another beautiful data reporting... [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Offline Quagmire

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2021, 11:31:48 PM »
Well, after 4 months of owning the WS80, I can now say I've joined the 'anomaly' club.



What's strange is that it wasn't raining or even all that windy; a pretty benign weather day. The image above shows the huge wind speed spike as well as the single point of extreme direction change which likely didn't actually occur. The only thing I can think of is that my mast isn't the most sturdy and when I looked at it, it had a slight but fairly rhythmic sway going on.

Regardless of the reason, this type of data anomaly should be trivial to filter out as it's clearly so far outside the surrounding data-points that it can be nothing but erroneous. Of course that would mean the data would have to be filtered as opposed to just reading the raw sensor data and uploading it like it seems to do now.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 11:34:21 PM by Quagmire »

Offline Mandrake

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2021, 04:20:24 AM »
I guess the question we have not ruled out (or at least I have not noticed) is whether this is a question of bad data being transmitted by the WS80 or of bad data being received/interpreted by the console/GW1000?

For those that have seen these anomolies has it been observed on say both the HP2551 and a GW1000 at the same time as data points? that would indicate it is indeed a WS80 issue.

Otherwise I am just wondering if its the reception software that is occasionally glitching!
G1ZFO

Ecowitt HP2551A + WH65 Tri-Wing (Wunderground: IGUILDFO67)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Wunderground: IGUILDFO68)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Mk2) test environment driving CumulusMX on a RPi 3b
Ecowitt GW2000 (Test)
Ecowitt WS90 Wittboy - Test
Ecowitt WH51 (x6) Soil Moisture Sensor
Ecowitt WH41 PM2.5 AQM Sensor
Ecowitt WH31 (x8) Thermo/Hygro Sensor
Ecowitt WS80 Ultrasonic Anemometer (pre-prod test)
Ecowitt WH57 Lightning Sensor -test
Ecowitt WH32-EP (SHT35) + Davis 7714 Screen
Ecowitt WH45 CO2/PM2.5/PM10 -Test
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Ecowitt WN34 Water Temp Sensor -Test
Ecowitt WN35 Leaf Moisture

Offline davidefa

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2021, 05:58:25 AM »
On an italian forum was reported that there is a production batch of ws80 that has this problem ( not every ws80 but most of them )
On the same forum user DVD82 reported that the spike appeared both on the display and on the gateway

Online broadstairs

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Re: WS80 owner data anomalies...?
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2021, 06:06:09 AM »
I've been watching this thread for a while because I now have a WS80 and was wondering if this might affect me? Mine is new and has only been active this month, but so far I've not seen any such spikes. I got mine direct from Ecowitt and it arrived just a few days before it went live. What sort of frequency have folks seen this? Is it often or rare and how long should I go before deciding this might not apply to my WS80?

Stuart
Ecowitt GW1003 with ultrasonic wind gauge, lightning sensor and PM2.5 sensor with Personal Weather Tablet as a console.