Topic: wired v wireless

[deltaT]

Regrettably I need to replace my Ambivalent  Weather WS2000 due to a catastrophic  display failure, just about 3 yrs-part not available which is fine as this Company would be my absolute last choice....    Most likely I will purchase either a Davis/Rainwise or Columbia station, other brand suggestions would be welcomed.
I do need help in selecting between a wired (allegedly faster) rather than a wireless connection and between a separate component rather than an 'all in one'; I'm really old school.

Input needed and appreciated.

[PaulMy]

I will purchase either a Davis/Rainwise or Columbia station,

In my 17 year experience having one, Davis is very good and very common.  Lots of support/suggestions from users like the hobbyists on this forum.  Various options for programs and web display.  I can't speak for the other 2 but I believe they are top notch.

I do need help in selecting between a wired (allegedly faster) rather than a wireless connection

I am not aware of one method being faster than the other as the sensor units transmit in set time, i.e. wind gust about 2.5 seconds for Davis.  Wireless is more flexible where you can install it.

and between a separate component rather than an 'all in one'

With separate components you have more flexibility where the sensors are mounted, and able to have the sensors in the more standard height and distance, i.e. anemometer up to 10m, temperature closer to the ground, rain at 1m.

But I think you know all of that already, enjoy your shopping

Enjoy,
Paul

[R.Sidetrack]

Regrettably I need to replace my Ambivalent  Weather WS2000 due to a catastrophic  display failure, just about 3 yrs-part not available

I think one option is to consider using an Ecowitt gateway to recieve data from your existing Ambient sensors. Take a look at this thread:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=37760.0

There are a variety of Ecowitt gateways available, including some that are fairly inexpensive that do not have displays, but do have internal web servers so you can retrieve/display data that way.  A GW1100 is an example.

[deltaT]

Tnks  for the replies, looking into the Ecowitt option. Rainwise out, surprisingly they do not offer a model which measures/calculates or displays dew point-they have an option but it involves getting the Kestrelmet Window from Ambient which sure looks like the data is being received from another source rather than from the weather station-plus its got the word -Ambient- in it AND to top it all off it appears that one has to scroll through screens to get the dew point value from where ever it comes from........

Waiting to get quotes from Davis and Columbia-any first hand info on the Capricorn model-is it worth nearly 4 large ??

Forgot: if you go to   www.weatherstationdepot.com   and scroll down and you will find an article on wired and wireless connections, curious as to what members think

[johnd]

Further to PaulMy's reply, I agree with all his points. In particular:

• For Davis models, wireless and wired variants offer the same sensor update rates.
• Again for Davis, wireless models are considerably more flexible in being able to add additional sensors, should you wish to do that. And yes agree on the convenience of sensor mounting for wireless also.
• All-in-one sensor assemblies always involve a compromise in sensor accuracy. For best results you need anemometer up high but with other sensors closer to ground level.

[deltaT]

No advantages at all for a correctly installed wired station ??

[johnd]

No advantages at all for a correctly installed wired station ??

Well, 2 minor advantages I guess:

1. The wire can provide power to the sensors so never any issue about needing to replace a battery on the sensors.

2. The wire provides a consistent and reliable path for data from the sensors to console/display indoors. There are no concerns about wireless range, variable wireless signal strength etc. That said, wired is not immune from issues. Over time wiring can deteriorate, especially at any joints, and be vulnerable to damage from animals especially rodents, unless carefully installed in a robust conduit. And a long wired connection can perversely act as an antenna and feed radio-frequency interference into the display, though this is uncommon unless the site is near to a source of strong wireless signals. There are also potential issues of ground loops. A wireless set-up does provide complete electrical isolation between sensors and console.

Overall there are pros and cons, but wireless generally wins out for sheer convenience and flexibility. But I know that a few user still strongly prefer a wired station. Ultimately of course, provided you understand the pros and cons, it's down to personal preference.

[WheatonRon]

….
Forgot: if you go to   www.weatherstationdepot.com   and scroll down and you will find an article on wired and wireless connections, curious as to what members think

I looked at weatherstationdepot.com comparison between cabled and wireless and it looks reasonable and fair. I have 3 Davis wireless pws (VP2s) plus a standalone wireless anemometer for my wind measurements. As a result, I use 4 of the 8 active wireless transmitter channels Davis has available for its wireless pws. So if you lived next to me you could not use those 4 channels without issues but you still have 4 more channels to use. There are several Davis stations within a few miles of me but they don’t interfere with the channels I use and I can’t receive their stations. Not sure what the other manufacturers use channel wise. Either way, cable or wireless you have maintenance—cleaning the ISS etc. Cable has the disadvantage of having rodents eat the wires and local building codes might give you issues too if you want a cable setup—like requiring the cables to run through expensive conduit. My preference, obviously, is wireless since I have so many. I will be replacing a significant portion of my oldest ISS (10+ years old) as the sun has deteriorated many of its components—that would be the case whether cabled or wireless.  Other than that, they have performed flawlessly other than an annual battery change and cleaning chores.

[deltaT]

10 years of reliable service from Davis weather stations 

Appreciate the replies very much, did not think about other stations in the hood of which there are three-nor have I thought about if there might be more in the future.

Would anyone venture a guess as to what might the maximum length of cable be or is this something that would be manufacturer specific??

[johnd]

Would anyone venture a guess as to what might the maximum length of cable be or is this something that would be manufacturer specific??

It won't be so much manufacturer specific as protocol specific for the data transfer protocol. Davis use RS422/485 for which I think the maximum length is usually quoted as around 1200m or ~4000 feet. But it is dependent on data rate, cable quality etc. Obviously much better to use a single length of cable wherever possible and avoid joints in the cable. Standard cable length that Davis provide is 30m (100') but you can buy 60m (200') as an extra.

[Mattk]

.... Would anyone venture a guess as to what might the maximum length of cable be or is this something that would be manufacturer specific??

Davis cabled station max cable length (Console to ISS) 300 metres, standard included cable length out of the box is 30 metres.

[deltaT]

 Thanks, another decision made-going wired; fewer electronic bits seems like a good idea to me...

Can anyone offer insight as to the benefit of paying for the NIST option-its somewhat confusing to me and I am hoping that a member can offer first hand, or reliable second hand results as to just how much difference the calibration makes from stock out of the box performance. Does one get enough of a meaningful difference to justify the cost or is it simply 'bragging rights'.

[deltaT]

another request please, if someone could go to:

https://www.columbiaweather.com/resources/manuals-and-brochures/capricorn-flx-docs/capricorn-flx-brochure.pdf

scroll down to the spec's and perhaps put this station into perspective with the performance of Davis/Ambient/Rainwise equipment ?

[davidmc36]

I have had wired and wireless VPs. Both are as reliable as the other for signal.

Wireless may actually be LESS electronic bits. You still need communication chips on each end. Just one is wire protocol,  the other wireless. And wired just makes another point of failure the way I see it. And maybe additional fail points if you add extensions.

[johnd]

Thanks, another decision made-going wired; fewer electronic bits seems like a good idea to me...

Actually, wired vs wireless makes little difference to the component count. You still need comms chips (admittedly simpler ones, but the wireless chips aer pretty bulletproof these days) for wired. Personally I think wireless wins out on installation convenience and flexibility, But as upthread there are pros and cons to each and I wouldn't challenge a properly informed decision either way..

Can anyone offer insight as to the benefit of paying for the NIST option-its somewhat confusing to me and I am hoping that a member can offer first hand, or reliable second hand results as to just how much difference the calibration makes from stock out of the box performance. Does one get enough of a meaningful difference to justify the cost or is it simply 'bragging rights'.

I can only speak for Davis, but personally I wouldn't bother with NIST. These are, I believe, only calibration checks and not adjustments. There is nothing on a T/H sensor or anemometer or rain gauge that you can easily adjust so all that the NIST check is doing I think is to ensure that you don't receive a bad production example, ie out of published specification (and in general the production line QC is pretty good). There are certain customers that need a NIST check if they operate in a rigorously controlled environment like airfields or eg if the data might be used in court evidence (eg police users) and they really like to have the equivalent of a calibration certificate. But for general users, no.

[WheatonRon]

Thanks, another decision made-going wired; fewer electronic bits seems like a good idea to me...

Can anyone offer insight as to the benefit of paying for the NIST option-its somewhat confusing to me and I am hoping that a member can offer first hand, or reliable second hand results as to just how much difference the calibration makes from stock out of the box performance. Does one get enough of a meaningful difference to justify the cost or is it simply 'bragging rights'.

Since you have decided to go cable, I think you would be well served to put the cable wire inside conduit to avoid rodents et al from chewing on the cable. However, I would first check your local building code is see if anything applies to laying cable from your house to the ISS. Where I live, local building code requires outside electrical wiring to be in conduit unless the setup is considered temporary, for example, Christmas tree lighting, and obviously your cable to the ISS would not be temporary.

[Mattk]

I can't see how any building code would affect laying a simple stranded cable in buried conduit? It's not like it is carrying any real power in it and would not be considered "electrical", yes there is a 5V pair but that's not even close to being "electrical"   

[WheatonRon]

I can't see how any building code would affect laying a simple stranded cable in buried conduit? It's not like it is carrying any real power in it and would not be considered "electrical", yes there is a 5V pair but that's not even close to being "electrical"

I agree. Can you help rewrite some local building codes for me? When I have argued a situation, I lose. That said using conduit for the wire is a good idea irrespective of local code.

[davidmc36]

I've had Davis phone type cables well above ground for years with no damage that was not self induced. On the ground I would choose conduit for rodent protection no matter the code. I know what they do to outdoor generator installations

[deltaT]

Checking with the local authorities would be very good advice if one has nosey / troublesome neighbors and in the State I am in the laying of cable underground DOES require getting what is called a 'dig safe' permit-I don't believe either the National electrical code or the code in my State addresses communication cable which is placed underground - I would use either Liquid Tight or the Carlton blue flexible conduit at a depth of just below the soil level which here is at roughly 8 inches or so.

Leaning towards the Capricorn; a quote should be arriving very soon-the Mrs likes it because she thinks it is 'elegant' looking and while I do like the appearance the fact that (according to the Company) the sensors and anemometer are either US or Swiss made goes a long way in understanding and justifying the cost difference in various stations.

Forgot to add that as for any contact with the Town by us for the install the answer is - nyet.

[TheBushPilot]

Regrettably I need to replace my Ambivalent  Weather WS2000 due to a catastrophic  display failure, just about 3 yrs-part not available which is fine as this Company would be my absolute last choice....    Most likely I will purchase either a Davis/Rainwise or Columbia station, other brand suggestions would be welcomed.
I do need help in selecting between a wired (allegedly faster) rather than a wireless connection and between a separate component rather than an 'all in one'; I'm really old school.

Input needed and appreciated.

deltaT,

Wired over wireless every time. At a certain point you reach systems that let you choose your record interval. If you're looking into the prospects of a station spec'd like a Capricorn I would suggest sourcing the parts and putting it together yourself. At the end of the day you are going to have to do all the wiring anyway, so why not have control over the entire process. All Columbia Weather Systems does is curate instrumentation into a marketable package. You can get a far more modular system not using their proprietary data acquisition system for way less than what they are going to quote you I would imagine. That way you future proof your station and are not locked into a non-compatible eco-system should the company discontinue support. (I am adamantly against proprietary systems. )

Assuming they quote you around $4000 (or more in all possibility), you could build something with significantly better measurement specifications for probably half that using an older but still IoT capable (wifi/ethernet) Campbell Scientific data logger with CRBasic programming language. Easily solar battery powered so it's a closed system. There are a lot of ways you can do this. I know it may be a little daunting but I'd be more than happy to help you put something together if you are interested in pursuing a mesonet quality station. I do research grade spec for fun.

Feel free to reach out over DMs or email.


Cheers

[WheatonRon]

Regrettably I need to replace my Ambivalent  Weather WS2000 due to a catastrophic  display failure, just about 3 yrs-part not available which is fine as this Company would be my absolute last choice....    Most likely I will purchase either a Davis/Rainwise or Columbia station, other brand suggestions would be welcomed.
I do need help in selecting between a wired (allegedly faster) rather than a wireless connection and between a separate component rather than an 'all in one'; I'm really old school.

Input needed and appreciated.

deltaT,

Wired over wireless every time.

….

As a 10+year user of 3 Davis wireless systems, I have yet to have ANY issues with the wireless feature of the ISS to console. Other issues, yes, but they are unrelated to the communication feature between the ISS and console. Could you explain why “wired over wireless every time” is the way to go? Just checked—my first Davis wireless VP2 was put in service March 2005, paid $451 and believe that included Davis’ WeatherLink software—version 5.5.1.

[vinceskahan]

Wired over wireless every time.... At the end of the day you are going to have to do all the wiring anyway.....

Disagree.  Disagree. Davis wireless sensor-to-console is rock solid.  No worries about lightning strikes traveling back into your house.  Excellent range and stability. No outside wires at all required.  I do not see any downside in 16+ years of use here.

Only 'potential' risk I can think of would be if you were in a location with 'many' Davis stations surrounding you and using up all the available channels.   I certainly have never experienced that here.   Lots of non-Davis cheapo gear in surrounding homes that I can pick up with a RTL-SDR dongle if I have the antenna high enough, but I've never seen any other Davis gear around here.

(now if you're talking 2.4GHz wifi for consoles like Ecowitt uses, yes that is a major major downside due to 90% of the residences having misconfigured wifi that interferes like crazy with correctly configured access points.  I still can't understand why nobody seems to support 5GHz yet after all these years)

[deltaT]

What appeals to me about a cabled system is what I’ll call  ‘simplicity’ both in design and troubleshooting; for me anyway - what might the average individual notice-if anything- about two of the same stations with one being cabled and one wireless with regard to data displaying/updating ?

To this 72yr old semi retired hvac tech the cabled install would have to be more reliable…

[TheBushPilot]

Regrettably I need to replace my Ambivalent  Weather WS2000 due to a catastrophic  display failure, just about 3 yrs-part not available which is fine as this Company would be my absolute last choice....    Most likely I will purchase either a Davis/Rainwise or Columbia station, other brand suggestions would be welcomed.
I do need help in selecting between a wired (allegedly faster) rather than a wireless connection and between a separate component rather than an 'all in one'; I'm really old school.

Input needed and appreciated.

deltaT,

Wired over wireless every time.

….

As a 10+year user of 3 Davis wireless systems, I have yet to have ANY issues with the wireless feature of the ISS to console. Other issues, yes, but they are unrelated to the communication feature between the ISS and console. Could you explain why “wired over wireless every time” is the way to go? Just checked—my first Davis wireless VP2 was put in service March 2005, paid $451 and believe that included Davis’ WeatherLink software.

I said "wired over wireless every time" because I was under the assumption deltaT was going for weather stations beyond hobby grade given his interest in the Capricorn system. Anything only transmitting data packets without redundant ISS storage is a bad idea at that scale. Ironically there's a sort of bell curve where at a certain point the weather stations becomes wireless again - but as a closed system where everything is hooked into the DAQ with either a WiFi device or cell modem.

$451 is completely reasonable for a high quality weather station, but in 2025 their flagship station is nearly x3.5 the cost and no longer entirely American made (correct me if I'm wrong). I argue if someone wants to they can do better for the same price point. On top of this the hobby grade systems do not have total user autonomy in what instruments they use, where they are located, what measurement interval they want, and what variables they want to measure. It's too rigid for me, but alas I probably take this hobby way too seriously.

And again, back to what the OP intends on doing goes beyond the realm of something bought on amazon.


Cheers