Author Topic: RM Young Anemometer Adapter  (Read 1366 times)

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Offline doubleohwhatever

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RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« on: June 07, 2021, 03:32:08 AM »
Hi All,

Is anyone interested in an adapter that would allow an RM Young serial or 0-5v anemometer to be connected to a VP2 ISS (or standalone anemometer transmitter)? We have a need for such a device and have put one together. We're currently testing a prototype and the next revision of the PCB is on it's way from China. We'll likely do one or two more revisions before calling the design finalized. Any input on what should be included is welcome.

Prototype:
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Next Revision:
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

This is not something we'd be selling but if people are interested we can share the design files on github. We've kept the design as simple as possible and 100% through-hole for easy assembly. The board does require 12-24v DC (mains adapter or solar) but it does allow for a single cable to connect to the ISS and provide wind direction, wind speed, 5v for ISS power, and 2.5v for fan power. No ISS modifications are required. I'll post a photo of the ISS tomorrow.

We're still dialing in the performance via firmware but we're getting there. I've attached some screenshots from weatherlink.com. Red is a RM Young 9200 connected to an ISS on channel 1 and blue is a stock VP2 anemometer on a separate transmitter on channel 2. This is our test setup:
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

A few notes:
1) The 9200 is configured to update once per second (same as the Davis/LCJ sonic sensor) and take 200 samples per second (likely much higher than the Davis/LCJ sonic sensor).
2) The wind direction gap at north still exists. The VP2 is built around this and there's nothing we can do about it. Some resolution is also lost due to the wireless protocol stuffing the direction into 256 values.
3) The 9200 is has a much lower starting speed and thus wind direction is much more responsive to light winds. This could be adjusted via the 9200 configuration if desired.
4) We've tested emulating wind speeds up to 200MPH. So there is no practical upper limit imposed by the adapter.
5) Tested anemometers are RM Young 9100, 9200, 86000, and 05103V. However, basically any serial output or 0-5v output anemometers will work with firmware adjustments
6) We'll likely add RS485 support in the final design
7) Pinouts for the two RJ45 ports and the ISS connections currently look like this:

ADAPTER I/O PORT (RJ45):
1) Green/White (3.3v)
2) Green (5v)
3) Orange/White (GND)
4) Blue (TX TTL)
5) Blue/White (RX TTL)
6) Orange (SDA)
7) Brown/White (SCL)
8) Brown (A0/DAC)

ADAPTER ISS PORT (RJ45):
1) Green/White (ISS +5V)
2) Green (ISS GND)
3) Orange/White (WIND V+)
4) Blue (WIND DIR)
5) Blue/White (WIND GND)
6) Orange (WIND SPEED)
7) Brown/White (FAN +2.5V)
8) Brown (FAN GND)

ISS WIND (RJ11):
1) Orange/White (WIND V+)
2) Blue (WIND DIR)
3) Blue/White (WIND GND)
4) Orange (WIND SPEED)

ISS PWR (RJ11):
1) Green (ISS GND)
2) No Connect (CABLED ISS DATA)
3) No Connect (CABLED ISS DATA)
4) Green/White (ISS +5V)

FAN PWR (Molex 2510 Female):
1/Black) Brown (FAN GND)
2/Red) Brown/White (FAN +2.5V)

Offline azchrisf

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2021, 05:06:13 PM »
Davis used to make one of these that interfaced with RM Young and other Anemometers, but they stopped making it.
And even though I don't have an RM Young, yes, I think you should produce this. It is going to be a low volume, niche item though.

But what you are making will save people a lot of hassle and money - and if I had one - you would be a LIFESAVER.
So if you want to sell or just release the PCB CAD file and bill of materials - DO IT.

We need more people like you!
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 05:08:19 PM by azchrisf »
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Offline DaleReid

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2021, 07:16:55 PM »
This is exciting.

I don't have your talent, but always consider such things 'possible' if you have the training and time to pull something like this off.

A few years ago a smart guy down in FL, I believe, had come up with a way of taking info from more modern booms and converting it so old Heathkit 4001 and 5001s could interface, restoring them to usefulness, as they are still very functional until components start to fail.

Amazing, but I think that some problems with obtaining local info to fill in for missing sensors came about, and never heard more.

Ingenuity!

Almost all RMYoung stuff comes as raw output, 4-20 ma output and 0-1 or sometimes 0-5 v interface.  Is your setup able to take any or all of those types, or just the 0-5?
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Offline doubleohwhatever

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2021, 09:13:17 PM »
Davis used to make one of these that interfaced with RM Young and other Anemometers, but they stopped making it.
I really wish Davis made more adapters for 3rd party hardware. I can understand why they want to stick to their plug and play hardware though.

It is going to be a low volume, niche item though.
So if you want to sell or just release the PCB CAD file and bill of materials - DO IT.
We're not looking to make a profit or sell anything. Once the design is final and tested (mainly just to make sure it's ISS safe), we're going to upload everything to github with build instructions.

Almost all RMYoung stuff comes as raw output, 4-20 ma output and 0-1 or sometimes 0-5 v interface.  Is your setup able to take any or all of those types, or just the 0-5?
Most of the RM Young mechanical anemometers are offered by default as pulse output. However, almost all of those pulse output sensors can either be ordered with 0-5v instead *or* the sensor can be paired with the RM Young 05608C "pulse to 0-5v" translator. The newer anemometers RM Young has released have been mostly ultrasonic and all of those offer serial output with a few models tossing in 0-5v outputs in addition.

Note that our 0-5v interface can be scaled down via software to work with 0-1v at the same 16-bit resolution as 0-5v. No additional hardware is needed for that.

To make it clear, these are the interfaces that ARE supported:
  • RS232 Serial
  • RS485 Serial (currently via adapter but will be built-in with final design)
  • 0-5v (0-1v would use the same interface)

These are the interfaces that ARE NOT supported:
  • NMEA
  • SDI-12
  • 4-20 mA
  • Pulse Output

I'm 99.9% sure NMEA and SDI-12 support could be added via software without any hardware changes and we make look at these at a later date. We may also look at adding support for pulse output and 4-20ma output via a daughter board (or an updated main board design) in the future as well. For now though, we're going with serial for digital input and voltage for analog input.

Overall the hardware will support these (and likely other) models:
  • RM Young 86000/86004 via RS-232/RS-485 Half-Duplex *or* 0-5v
  • RM Young 91000/91500/91000B/91500B via RS-232/RS-485 Half-Duplex
  • RM Young 92000/92500 via RS-232/RS-485 Half-Duplex (All sensors othes than wind speed and direction ignored)
  • RM Young 03002V/05305V/05103V via 0-5v
  • RM Young 05106 via 0-5v provided by 05603C
  • RM Young 05108/05108-45 via 0-5v provided by 05608C
  • Vaisala WXT532 via RS-232/RS-485 Half-Duplex
  • Vaisala WXT533/WXT536 via RS-232/RS-485 Half-Duplex (All sensors other than wind speed and direction ignored)
  • Lufft WS200/Ventus/Venus-X via RS-485 Half-Duplex
  • Lufft WS500/WS501/WS502/WS503/WS504/WS540/WS600/WS601/WS700/WS800 via RS-485 Half-Duplex (All sensors other than wind speed and direction ignored)

The firmware is not going to be a massive all-in-one program. We're going to create a github repository for the hardware and will have a list there of other repos containing firmware. While we won't be providing firmware for *all* of the above models, we are going to provide two firmware packages to start off. One for the RM Young serial interface models in the above list and a second for 0-5v devices that will support the RM Young models listed but also any 0-5v sensor out there.

Btw, I've attached a photo of how our board connects to the ISS. It plugs into the existing ports on the ISS and uses a female molex connector to plug into the fan connector. No splicing or anything that would void a warranty.

Offline DaleReid

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2021, 09:26:28 PM »
Indeed a fine project.

I know those of  us above the freeze line can't depend upon ultrasonics for snow build up etc.  Vaisala has the WXT5xx series which is snazzy, but a real pain when we get wet or a heavy fast snow.

Thanks for all the work, and having dug into how these things work to be able to pull together  your project. 
I have no real love for 4-20 ma loops, but some of the surplus Young stuff out there on eBay, etc. has this.  The pulse or 3 ac cycles per revolution are a bit prone to noise in some situations, but all their 51xx can be wired to get that out if you don't mind very small wires!

None the less, I'm very interested and will keep looking for your posts on providing details when you are happy with the design.
Thx again.
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Offline Mattk

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2021, 11:58:25 PM »
.... I know those of  us above the freeze line can't depend upon ultrasonics for snow build up etc.

Ever tried something like a LUFFT Ventus-X under ice conditions?

Offline azchrisf

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2021, 12:58:24 PM »
Interesting what your using. Not sure what v2 will look like...
I see your using a Featherwing, looks like a 7805, an Opamp or comparator, etc....how are you getting the 2.5v? LM317?

The Featherwing could be condensed down to a single ATMega328 and ancillary components, just provide the flash .hex file or the Arduino source file. That's what I did with my custom ISS fan monitor project. You can add an ICSP header like I did for firmware upgrades.
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=41813.msg427952#msg427952 (see Transmitter board picture)
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 01:04:14 PM by azchrisf »
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Offline doubleohwhatever

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2021, 03:23:24 PM »
One of the goals is to keep the board as simple as possible in order to make assembling it doable for almost anyone. Cost is important but ultimately secondary to this goal.

how are you getting the 2.5v? LM317?
The prototype board in the photo up above is just using a hacked on dc-dc converter. We uh, forgot to include a 2.5v regulator on that board #-o

Every board since that one uses a 2.5v and 5v regulators from Traco Power. We like them because they have built in filter caps but they aren't cheap. However, they are pin compatible with cheaper regulators if someone wants to go that route.

The Featherwing could be condensed down to a single ATMega328 and ancillary components, just provide the flash .hex file or the Arduino source file. That's what I did with my custom ISS fan monitor project. You can add an ICSP header like I did for firmware upgrades.

We went with a feather board design for a number of reasons:
  • Going with a dev board like a Feather reduces the number of different components that have to be soldered onto the board. It's much easier for someone to solder on a couple of headers and plug in an entire MCU than have to solder on individual components.
  • Going bare bones with a microcontroller IC and an ISCP header is also out of the question because it's not nearly as user friendly as plugging in a USB cable for firmware upgrades.
  • Doing firmware upgrades in the field is going to be super easy because we can just swap out the feather board.
  • Feather boards were chosen due to the footprint. It's basically a standard now and as such there are numerous board models and wings available.
  • Lastly, this board is not going to be single purpose. We have plans for future projects involving the board and different Feather boards will be needed for those projects. One PCB for numerous projects is a win f

For this use of the board, we went with an M0 because we don't really work with 328/32u microcontrollers anymore. We really only work with M0/M4 and ESP8266/ESP32 microcontrollers now.

Offline azchrisf

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2021, 03:39:24 PM »
Quite interesting. Thanks for the reply!
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Offline giusCB

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2021, 04:16:16 PM »
this is a fantastic project, just what davis stations need.  UU If you need a beta tester, I'm available! I have over 40 weather stations in my region.

Offline azchrisf

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2021, 09:46:47 PM »
I'd like to see more projects like this that can support not only Anemometers, but rain gauges and temperature/hum probes as well.
Davis and the SHT31 is starting to get long in the tooth, there are better SHT sensors and even more accurate ones from Vaisala, etc. out there.

If the OP would entertain that idea, I think he would be a MASSIVE benefit to the community. Rain gauges and temp probe conversion shouldn't be as hard as an Anemometer as there isn't as much math involved.

I mean imagine the possibilities!
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Offline doubleohwhatever

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2021, 01:28:06 AM »
Hi All,

I'm out of town this weekend with very slow internet access. I'll post an update on the wind project on Monday.

As for interfacing different rain buckets, that should be super simple as long as the bucket is 0.01 inch per tip. It's just a matter of figuring out the pinout for the rain RJ11 port. I'll take a look when I get home. I may have to order a spare tipping spoon assembly to take apart. I know two wires are for the reed switch but at least one of the remaining wires will be connected to something in order to let the ISS board know the rain sensor is connected.

The temperature/humidity sensor is a bit trickier. The problem is that Davis has thus far chosen to not switch the temp/hum sensor over to an I2C variant. They've stuck with the older Sensirion Bus chips because they don't want to go through the expense of changing the ISS board design. I imagine since the radio is integrated into that board they'll have to get the updated design FCC tested and approved which is costly. Unfortunately for them, the older Sensirion Bus chips are no longer manufactured. I'm sure they have a massive stock of the chips but at some point they are going to have no choice but to go with a different temp/hum chip that communicates via SPI, I2C, or voltage (analog). I2C would be my bet but any of those would make it super easy to swap out the temperature and humidity sensor. As it is now, you would have to emulate the Sensirion Bus protocol. I'm honestly not sure going down that path would be worth the time seeing as how Davis is going to have to modernize the temperature/humidity sensor in the relatively near future.


Offline azchrisf

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2021, 01:39:47 AM »
Exactly. My question would be could the I2C returns (i.e. query bus and it returns 83.1 as temp via i2C via the SHT library for ATMega or ESP32, can it be mapped out voltage wise to send analog returns back to the ISS ex. 4.22v for that return), or is the Sensiron bus a special protocol in itself that does not lend itself to doing that?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 01:43:07 AM by azchrisf »
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Offline doubleohwhatever

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2021, 01:57:07 AM »
The Sensirion Bus is a digital bus similar to but not compatible with I2C. You would have to have an intermediary microcontroller that reads an I2C sensor and outputs Sensirion Bus to the ISS.

I don't think it would be impossible to do and I think I came across a project on GitHub at some point that could read from Sensirion Bus sensors using an arduino's I2C port. That project would likely have a majority of the code needed.

It'll probably take another three weeks to get the anemometer project wrapped up (mainly due to PCB shipping from china). After that I'll take a look at the temp/hum sensor. I think an adapter for that would be useful for at least a few people.

Offline azchrisf

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2021, 01:59:07 AM »
Interesting and again wow I'm stoked. Glad to have you here and thanks again for the replies!
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Offline doubleohwhatever

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2021, 11:38:43 PM »
Quick update. We're still waiting on the latest PCB to arrive. We should have it either tomorrow or the next day.

We've concluded our comparison testing between the RM Young 92000 using our adapter and the stock Davis anemometer. I've attached a chart from today. We were initially trying to get the two anemometers to agree as much as possible. However, we've come to realize that is just pointless. The 92000 performs great in light winds (<2mph) while the Davis anemometer just doesn't due to it being mechanical. It's an apples to oranges comparison no matter what and I think it's as good as it's going to get. Notes:

1) Our 92000 was calibrated just a few months ago.

2) During lab testing for wind direction, whatever value our adapter sent the ISS was reported accurately to weatherlink.com and the console within plus or minus two degrees. Wind direction is hard due to the dead zone in the stock anemometer which the ISS accounts for *and* the fact that the Davis wireless protocol squeezes 360 degrees into 256 values. Dead on accuracy just isn't going to happen.

3) During lab testing for wind speed, whatever value our adapter sent the ISS was reported accurately to weatherlink.com and the console. I hesitate to say it's perfect but we did not notice any errors. 5mph was reported as 5mph. 4.4mph was reported as 4mph. 4.5 mph was reported as 5mph.

4) The 92000 performs very well at low wind speeds (<2mph) where as the stock Davis anemometer does not due to it being a mechanical sensor.

5) When no wind pulse is sent to the ISS, it will stop reporting wind direction. This happens often with the stock anemometer due to its starting speed. It's rare for the 92000 to register no wind and thus is almost always sending wind pulses (via adapter board) to the ISS. Even if it's reporting 0.2mph, it's still sending pulses which results in the ISS still sending wind direction even if the wind speed is rounded down to 0mph. You'll see this in the attached chart as breaks in the blue line on the wind direction comparison.

6) When reading the attached chart, keep in mind that blue is the stock anemometer and red is the 9200. Also note the North to North North-West wraparound on the wind direction comparison.

7) Either the mechanical sensor is picking up gusts better than the 92000 or it's overrunning (or both).

8) All variations on the attaches chart on within tolerances for the respective anemometers.

9) Bottom line is that we know our 92000 is calibrated and we know that what the adapter sends to the ISS is reported correctly. We're going to see if we can put together some kind of demo to show the accuracy later this week.

this is a fantastic project, just what davis stations need.  UU If you need a beta tester, I'm available! I have over 40 weather stations in my region.

Sorry I missed your post. I'm hoping we'll have something we can put on GitHub by the end of the month.


Offline giusCB

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2021, 02:44:37 PM »
are there any problems in heavy rain and fog with the sonic anemometer?

Offline doubleohwhatever

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2021, 05:54:58 PM »
are there any problems in heavy rain and fog with the sonic anemometer?

The answer depends on the model you're referring to. Currently we use Young 86000 units when heating is needed and Young 91000 (black) units when heating is not needed. We also have a number of Young 91000 units. We've had zero issues with these models. They basically use the same

We've used quite a number of sonic anemometers over the years and they basically fit into three categories. I'm sure there are proper names but this is what I call them:

1) Cross-firing: We've used RM Young 86000, 91000, etc and Vaisala WXT models. We've never had an issue with any of these in any weather situation. That said, NOAA reportedly had an issue with Vaisala WXT models on buoys reporting erroneous wind spikes. We never encountered that issue. We stopped using WXT models because the cables and the connectors are expensive.

2) Upward-firing: We've used numerous Lufft models but primarily the WS200. 99% of our stations are located in Alabama where it's warm and snow/ice is rarely a concern. However, we have done stations in slightly colder areas and we found that the transducers on the lufft stations would get blocked by even light snow a lot more frequently than the RM Young 86000/92000. We eventually switched all of these stations out to heated Young 86000 units. Lufft makes heated variants and I am 100% sure those would work great. Again, we stopped using Lufft sensors due the cost of the connectors and the premade cables.

3) Downward-firing: You tend to see these on consumer-grade and cheaper professions stations and sensors. There's a reason for that. I really don't want to discuss this too much because it'll lead to discussing the consumer-grade stations that use these sensors and at the end of the day I'm just happy to see people enjoying the hobby. If you're going to spend $1k USD on a sensor for a professional station, go with cross-firing or upward firing.

Note that we've never had a use for 3D sonic anemometers have no experience with them.

Back on topic... the PCB for the latest version of our adapter board arrived today. I'll get one built and start playing with it tomorrow. Unless we find any issues with this board, we really only need to do one more revision adding RS-485, test that revision, and then we're good to release everything.

Offline doubleohwhatever

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2021, 03:06:51 PM »
Hi All,

I just wanted to post a quick update. We're still moving along on this project but it's been a bit slow going. A shipment of boards got lost in the void of customs and some parts were backordered. However, we now have the second iteration of the board built and installed on the test station. A photo of the board is attached.

The next version has a few minor issues resolved but we've run into a small problem that we're having to decide how to handle. We want to keep the board 100% through-hole in order to make it easy to assemble. However, through-hole components are larger and we're running into routing issues while trying to add rs-485 support to the board. Basically, we have two options:
1) Ditch the IO RJ45 port and add RS-485 half duplex support
2) Leave off RS-485 support and require an external adapter

Using an external RS-485 to RS-232 adapter isn't a big deal and a lot of wind sensors offer RS-232 anyway. However, having it onboard makes for a cleaner install.

For those not familiar, this is an example of an adapter:
https://www.amazon.com/Electromagnetic-RS232-RS485-Converter-Transmission/dp/B08CBX497H/

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Offline giusCB

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2021, 03:38:24 PM »
why two rj45 ?

Offline doubleohwhatever

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2021, 12:14:21 AM »
The left RJ45 port voltage outputs, I2C, TTL serial, and a 0-3v DAC output.

Offline doubleohwhatever

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2021, 01:55:39 AM »
Hi All,

We've sent off the (hopefully) last board revision (v3) for manufacturing. We'll test this last revision when it arrives and then we'll upload everything to github.

This revision just contains non-critical fixes from the previous version (v2). We've had one of the v2 boards running without issue for a few days now. So I'm attaching the gerbers in case anyone wants to give it a go. JLCPCB is who we use and the attached gerbers will work there without issue.

Offline giusCB

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2021, 05:41:47 AM »
the site you mentioned is also able to assemble the various components on the pcb and flash the firmware to make it work in a "plug and play way"? For non-expert users it would be essential, otherwise only few people would be able to produce working parts.  UU
« Last Edit: July 06, 2021, 10:00:08 AM by giusCB »

Offline doubleohwhatever

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2021, 03:21:57 AM »
the site you mentioned is also able to assemble the various components on the pcb and flash the firmware to make it work in a "plug and play way"?

I'm afraid not. You'll be able to order bare boards from JLCPCB or pretty much any other fab house using the gerber files we provide. You'll then need to order the components in the BOM (bill of materials), solder the components onto the board, and flash the firmware (just an arduino sketch) onto the microcontroller (Feather M0 Basic Proto).

The current BOM cost is around $78 USD not including the PCB but you can leave a few components off if you don't plan on using certain features. I've attached the current BOM we've been working off of. I had to zip it in order for it to upload. It's just an excel/google sheets file.

As mentioned above, the firmware is just an arduino sketch. It's not complicated nor it is anything fancy. I've attached what we're currently running on our stations. The target board is an AdaFruit Feather M0 Basic Proto and you'll need these two libraries:
https://github.com/khoih-prog/SAMD_TimerInterrupt
https://github.com/jmalloc/arduino-mcp4xxx

Again though, once we've received/built/tested the final board revision, we'll upload everything to github. I'm just attaching what we have now in case anyone reaaaally want's to build one now.

I do apologize if all of this is more complicated than some people thought it would be. If someone wants to take what we have and turn it into a commercial product then they have permission. We needed this adapter for our own stations and are simply sharing it as-is. It's free as in beer. No license, no conditions, no warranty, no guarantees.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 03:35:22 AM by doubleohwhatever »

Offline azchrisf

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Re: RM Young Anemometer Adapter
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2021, 10:12:47 AM »
Can I ask why your not using caps on the VR? I see no space for them. If it's a 7805 it'll need 0.1 and 0.33uf caps on it to prevent oscillating. Different may need some other combo per datasheet.

Granted you can get away without using them I've done it just not best design practice.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 10:18:19 AM by azchrisf »
Davis Vantage Pro 2 Plus 6163 w/ 8 Transmitters!
Also doing Soil and Leaf 4x
WU: KAZGLEND106 CWOP: FW1398 (F1398) Purpleair: 98793/LAZGLEND8

 

anything