Topic: Use a UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) powering your console, opinions?

[Rover1822]

I'm starting this thread to get input from others on the benefits of having a UPS power your console (all consoles/gateways)
I have a WS 2000, and I have it powered by a UPS , as that console has internal storage and I like to have the ability during power outages to maintain the data and also still see what is going on. Normally my power outages occur during heavy weather events (high winds , hurricanes, etc.)

I also have a number of GW1000s (3) , which do not have internal data storage or screens.

For those , that have a console that does not have internal storage , or a screen, and only transmit to the internet to a weather site, I imagine the UPS, may be of little benefit. Also have to take into account how your internet connection is provided and whether that can withstand the outage and is powered separately. Also If you have a reliable Internet connection that is not susceptible to power outages (in the same way), you would also want all of your internet connection equipment (routers/switches/modems) to be powered by a UPS. I have my routers / modems powered by a UPS as well.

For general information for others, please offer your opinion on benefit, or lack there of having a UPS   

[CW2274]

My UPS powers my laptop, modem, router, and console. The console needs it because of the data logger, it would kill the console batteries in a heartbeat. Also the UPS is a surge protector as well as a line conditioner so all my stereo gear and TV is also hooked to it. It has two output selections, one side is the battery back-up, the other side is not. I think it's five plugs available on each side.

[box]

I'm starting this thread to get input from others on the benefits of having a UPS power your console (all consoles/gateways)
I have a WS 2000, and I have it powered by a UPS , as that console has internal storage and I like to have the ability during power outages to maintain the data and also still see what is going on. Normally my power outages occur during heavy weather events (high winds , hurricanes, etc.)

I also have a number of GW1000s (3) , which do not have internal data storage or screens.

For those , that have a console that does not have internal storage , or a screen, and only transmit to the internet to a weather site, I imagine the UPS, may be of little benefit. Also have to take into account how your internet connection is provided and whether that can withstand the outage and is powered separately. Also If you have a reliable Internet connection that is not susceptible to power outages (in the same way), you would also want all of your internet connection equipment (routers/switches/modems) to be powered by a UPS. I have my routers / modems powered by a UPS as well.

For general information for others, please offer your opinion on benefit, or lack there of having a UPS

hi there
I went through a similar thought process

What I have done is put my WiFi router and windows pc (not the display or any peripherals) on a basic ups, second hand from eBay with a new battery. My fibre modem has its own UPS which lasts about an hour

I tested it and it lasts about 15-20 minutes which is usually long enough to work out why the power went off and reset things

My Gw1000 isn't yet protected but I plan to use a mini ups, effectively a phone power bank with a ups circuit. Originally it was going to be powered by a USB port on the windows pc so both would have been protected by the same UPS but it transpires that to get good radio reception it has to be located elsewhere in the house

As soon as that is done I'll be good for minor outages

[box]

My UPS powers my laptop, modem, router, and console. The console needs it because of the data logger, it would kill the console batteries in a heartbeat. Also the UPS is a surge protector as well as a line conditioner so all my stereo gear and TV is also hooked to it. It has two output selections, one side is the battery back-up, the other side is not. I think it's five plugs available on each side.

sounds like mine, the surge protection is a big bonus. Mines an APC BACK-UPS 700

[Rover1822]

OK, let's forget about stereo systems, what is the benefit to someone with a GW1000 based system?

[CW2274]

For general information for others, please offer your opinion on benefit, or lack there of having a UPS

OK, let's forget about stereo systems, what is the benefit to someone with a GW1000 based system?

Really? You ask the question above, I respond, ya know, so someone may say to themselves..."huh, I didn't know that", including yourself. Glad to help...

[Rover1822]

Naw, was trying to get benefit of use on weather station consoles , specifically those related to this channel. I figure most of us already know the benefit for other systems.

 

[box]

I'm starting this thread to get input from others on the benefits of having a UPS power your console (all consoles/gateways)
I have a WS 2000, and I have it powered by a UPS , as that console has internal storage and I like to have the ability during power outages to maintain the data and also still see what is going on. Normally my power outages occur during heavy weather events (high winds , hurricanes, etc.)

I also have a number of GW1000s (3) , which do not have internal data storage or screens.

For those , that have a console that does not have internal storage , or a screen, and only transmit to the internet to a weather site, I imagine the UPS, may be of little benefit. Also have to take into account how your internet connection is provided and whether that can withstand the outage and is powered separately. Also If you have a reliable Internet connection that is not susceptible to power outages (in the same way), you would also want all of your internet connection equipment (routers/switches/modems) to be powered by a UPS. I have my routers / modems powered by a UPS as well.

For general information for others, please offer your opinion on benefit, or lack there of having a UPS

hi there
I went through a similar thought process

What I have done is put my WiFi router and windows pc (not the display or any peripherals) on a basic ups, second hand from eBay with a new battery. My fibre modem has its own UPS which lasts about an hour

I tested it and it lasts about 15-20 minutes which is usually long enough to work out why the power went off and reset things

My Gw1000 isn't yet protected but I plan to use a mini ups, effectively a phone power bank with a ups circuit. Originally it was going to be powered by a USB port on the windows pc so both would have been protected by the same UPS but it transpires that to get good radio reception it has to be located elsewhere in the house

As soon as that is done I'll be good for minor outages

On reading this I thought I should make it clear the windows PC is running Cumulus MX, thats why it needs a UPS

[Mattk]

The basic idea is to get away from devices that require heaps of power, like PC, laptops etc and design the system around 24/12/5volt convertors/LVD and POE etc. With stuff like Davis and Meteobridge this is not a problem and especially with some of the Ubiquiti products like EdgePower and some of the POE/24V EdgeSwitch's with a POE router with no limitation on the size of the battery.

SunMAX solarSwitch is also an additional solar power option.

The main priority is to provide as much backup capacity as possible, trying to run displays and the like is simply wasting backup capacity in power outage situations.

[Rover1822]

Sorry, but this is in regards to the weather stations of this channel, and why it was posted here. This was in an effort to get a discussion going for those that have these stations and  whether an UPS is warranted.

[Mattk]

So WHY do these Weather Stations of this channel specifically require a UPS (as such)? Much like why does a Laptop actually require a UPS, same as routers/switches/modems, why does these specifically require a UPS and by UPS I believe the reference is being made to a main stream UPS on mains power.

[Rover1822]

No one said they required them, it's more of whether one should be used to prevent data loss in case of a power outage, as described in the original post.

[Mattk]

No one said they required them, it's more of whether one should be used to prevent data loss in case of a power outage, as described in the original post.

Well yes data loss is the main criteria which should be the primary focus of any weather system. What I am suggesting is look at alternatives other than mains supply UPS as they do not have much up time.

[WA4OPQ]

I can't remember where, but this was a discussion last year. I offered my opinion that using a UPS means you're converting AC to DC to AC to DC again. Very inefficient.
One of the posters bought a 5V cell phone booster pack. Much more efficient, it lasted several days.

[davidmc36]

Everything critical to Data storage and upload I have on UPS's. Of course including internet so that stays connected. All the TV receivers etc also to guard against HDD destruction on power fluctuations....been there.

It is partly about stopping power surge/drop as this can damage many things.

I dont care if the data is kept in a logger or anything really......I just want to be able to have everything stay powered and not need to reset or restart anything. It would have to be off quite a number of hours to deplete 6 large UPS's if I were not at home. If at home I can leisurely check Hydro web to get idea of duration and spin up generator if needed.

Maybe not required.......but its how I like it.

If I had no other TVs or whatever, I would probably go with a simple battery bank to keep consoles and RPIs running.

[Gyvate]

My UPS powers my laptop, modem, router, and console. The console needs it because of the data logger, it would kill the console batteries in a heartbeat. Also the UPS is a surge protector as well as a line conditioner so all my stereo gear and TV is also hooked to it. It has two output selections, one side is the battery back-up, the other side is not. I think it's five plugs available on each side.

sounds like mine, the surge protection is a big bonus. Mines an APC BACK-UPS 700

I also own and use two APC UPS systems - one for my weather equipment, one for the rest of important electronic equipment - details to follow.
I just wanted to comment on/explain the two vertical rows of power outlets from the APC UPS:
- left row (column) of outlets: surge and battery protected (i.e. uninterrupted power supply provided)
- right row (columns) only surge protected (i.e. no uninterrupted power supply here)

[Gyvate]

I don't want to bore you with my whole IT set up - that's rather a small data center.

I have split all my equipment into two sections:
1. weather related (APS BACKUPS 700)
2. non-weather related (APS BACKUPS Pro 1200)

Each one has got their UPS. As I understand the OP and OPer and his reactions on several posts, 2. is of no interest, and why would it be.

Let's come to the weather equipment - all my consoles (see my signature), the WiFi router used for the consoles, a WAN/LAN VPN firewall router (internet WAN interface), an ADSL2+ modem (they are separate in my case, with most people it's all in one box, but there are reasons [for me] to keep them separate), my Meteobridge Pro data loggers, my Raspberry Pi-s and a USB hub are connected to it.

In addition comes a Windows laptop on which the database software of my WH4000SE/WS2320E console runs and the temperature/humidity sensor data of my TFA Klimalogg Pro system (mainly greenhouse and sanity check of my WH31-EP) are recorded. Also the surveillance software of the UPS and Brian Hamilton's Weather Display; plus the data recording of my Blake-Larsen sunrecorder.

In short - (almost) all weather related components on one UPS.

My NAS systems which house backups of the weather data, record data from my weather cameras and also host a local version of my Weather34 website (parallel backup) and my PoE switch for my weather cameras are connected to my non-weather related UPS which protects the remainder of my IT infrastructure. That's an APC BACKUPS Pro 1200.

In case of a power outage in my absence, it (the APC 700) can keep the equipment running for 36 -42 minutes. In my presence, I could still reduce the load on the UPS such that it would result in 60 minutes by selectively shutting gracefully down my backup systems (mainly backup consoles and a backup RPi). Even up to 90-120 min if I shut down gracefully my Windows laptop (The connected consoles have an internal memory - only WD and SR data would get lost for the downtime). The APC 700 I use does regularly (once a month) a self-test, i.e. simulates a power blackout to check the functionality and give the batteries a discharge/recharge cycle.

An architecture scheme of it (without the TFA Klimalogg components) can be viewed on my Weathercloud presence -
https://app.weathercloud.net/d6650042043#profile

[box]

I don't want to bore you with my whole IT set up - that's rather a small data center.

I have split all my equipment into two sections:
1. weather related (APS BACKUPS 700)
2. non-weather related (APS BACKUPS Pro 1200)

Each one has got their UPS. As I understand the OP and OPer and his reactions on several posts, 2. is of no interest, and why would it be.

Let's come to the weather equipment - all my consoles (see my signature), the WiFi router used for the consoles, a WAN/LAN VPN firewall router (internet WAN interface), an ADSL2+ modem (they are separate in my case, with most people it's all in one box, but there are reasons [for me] to keep them separate), my Meteobridge Pro data loggers, my Raspberry Pi-s and a USB hub are connected to it.

In addition comes a windows laptop on which the database software of my WH4000SE/WS2320E console runs and the temperature/humidity sensor data of my TFA Klimalogg Pro system (mainly greenhouse and sanity check of my WH31-EP) are recorded. Also the surveillance software of the UPS and Brian Hamilton's Weather Display; plus the data recording of my Blake-Larsen sunrecorder.

In short - (almost) all weather related components on one UPS.

My NAS systems which house backups of the weather data, record data from my weather cameras and also host a local version of my Weather34 website (parallel backup) and my PoE switch for my weather cameras are connected to my non-weather related UPS which protects the remainder of my IT infrastructure. That's an APC BACKUPS Pro 1200.

In case of a power outage in my absence, it (the APC 700) can keep the equipment running for 36 -42 minutes. In my presence, I could still reduce the load on the UPS such that it would result in 60 minutes by selectively shutting gracefully down my backup systems (mainly backup consoles and a backup RPi). The APC 700 I use does regularly (once a month) a self-test, i.e. simulates a power blackout to check the functionality and give the batteries a discharge/recharge cycle.

An architecture scheme of it (without the TFA Klimalogg components) can be viewed on my Weathercloud presence -
https://app.weathercloud.net/d6650042043#profile

A NAS is probably overkill for my simple needs, currently I am simply backing up to Google drive although of course that relies on my router being available and is a weak point. My theory is it will back up until all power is lost after which time there's no data anyway!

[Gyvate]

A NAS is probably overkill for my simple needs, currently I am simply backing up to Google drive although of course that relies on my router being available and is a weak point. My theory is it will back up until all power is lost after which time there's no data anyway!

I wouldn't say so. A NAS can be anything from a so-called 1-bay NAS (1 hard disk inside) up to many-bay NAS.

In the simplest case it is an external hard disk attached to the network rather than directly to only one computer via USB or e-SATA or Thunderbolt
(you don't need an extra computer running for accessing it and keeping it accessible - and it can be accessed by many other computers in your network).

I would say it's a very simple but also very useful approach. With one disk your capacity can go up to 16 (even 18) TB these days. Or just a simple 500 GB/1 TB disk.
Just according to your needs. Doesn't need to be a large, high-capacity NAS server. Many years ago I started with a 1-bay NAS with a 500 GB disk.
Still have and use the enclosure (the very NAS).

In my opinion always better than a so-called cloud drive (like Google drive) housed/hosted somewhere else. Here you are dependent on an internet connection and the available bandwidth.
And it either costs you extra money or the factual ownership of your data. Especially in countries with hungry intelligence services like GCHQ in the UK or NSA in the U.S.
In Germany you can be rather safe (if the server where your data is hosted is located in Germany), but I like to have the control over my data whenever possible.

Your NAS (howsoever small or big) can be your private cloud. Total ownership and control over your data. And with some little knowledge you can access it safely even from outside.

But man's wish is his kingdom of Heaven as we say in my native language.

[box]

A NAS is probably overkill for my simple needs, currently I am simply backing up to Google drive although of course that relies on my router being available and is a weak point. My theory is it will back up until all power is lost after which time there's no data anyway!

I wouldn't say so. A NAS can be anything from a so-called 1-bay NAS (1 hard disk inside) up to many-bay NAS.

In the simplest case it is an external hard disk attached to the network rather than directly to only one computer via USB or e-SATA or Thunderbolt
(you don't need an extra computer running for accessing it and keeping it accessible - and it can be accessed by many other computers in your network).

I would say it's a very simple but also very useful approach. With one disk your capacity can go up to 16 (even 18) TB these days. Or just a simple 500 GB/1 TB disk.
Just according to your needs. Doesn't need to be a large, high-capacity NAS server. Many years ago I started with a 1-bay NAS with a 500 GB disk.
Still have and use the enclosure (the very NAS).

In my opinion always better than a so-called cloud drive (like Google drive) housed/hosted somewhere else. Here you are dependent on an internet connection and the available bandwidth.
And it either costs you extra money or the factual ownership of your data. Especially in countries with hungry intelligence services like GCHQ in the UK or NSA in the U.S.
In Germany you can be rather safe (if the server where your data is hosted is located in Germany), but I like to have the control over my data whenever possible.

Your NAS (howsoever small or big) can be your private cloud. Total ownership and control over your data. And with some little knowledge you can access it safely even from outside.

But man's wish is his kingdom of Heaven as we say in my native language.

An interesting point of view

Good point about cloud services, I currently spread my domestic backup over four cloud services (dropbox, google drive, Mega and BT), all based in different countries, plus an external hard drive (USB). 

I have it arranged so the loss of one service wont compromise my plan but of course it is reliant on my router!

Food for thought

[Mattk]

In critical circumstances one can only control their data on their own system and this has to be the most fundamental thinking in designing any weather system. One has to move away from backup power systems (especially UPS) of a few hours or way less towards the capability of maintaining data over extended periods, days, weeks even months which is very doable and especially in relation to remote systems.

UPS's are by far the most limited in regard any type of serious data maintenance capability, it doesn't matter how many UPS's one has they have very limited life in regard serious station data maintenance over outages that may last weeks into months due to circumstances and access.

One has to plan around service providers that simply don't have the capacity to keep WiFi or broadband networks running for more than a few hours during total blackouts in critical situations. At the lowest level your data and station continuance is totally in your own hands and if you couldn't pull all power right now and survive for several weeks plus then the question is, why not? It can be done but one has to think outside the box         

[Gyvate]

In critical circumstances one can only control their data on their own system and this has to be the most fundamental thinking in designing any weather system. One has to move away from backup power systems (especially UPS) of a few hours or way less towards the capability of maintaining data over extended periods, days, weeks even months which is very doable and especially in relation to remote systems.

UPS's are by far the most limited in regard any type of serious data maintenance capability, it doesn't matter how many UPS's one has they have very limited life in regard serious station data maintenance over outages that may last weeks into months due to circumstances and access.

One has to plan around service providers that simply don't have the capacity to keep WiFi or broadband networks running for more than a few hours during total blackouts in critical situations. At the lowest level your data and station continuance is totally in your own hands and if you couldn't pull all power right now and survive for several weeks plus then the question is, why not? It can be done but one has to think outside the box         

Possibly, if PWS stood for Professional Weather Station.
Sure, you can also install a gas-oil run power generator which is automatically started once the UPS comes to a close to a critical limit (or earlier if you don't like UPSs) - and you can install an automated refill system with an (at least) one cubic meter gas-oil tank to keep it running for a couple of days - or weeks - or months. "2012" says hello.

But maybe, in such tough conditions, your PWS might be your least concern.
It may be more important to have energy for your fridge then - or some power-independent alternative.
And for sure you will have to live sort of "out-of-the-box" in very many ways. 

And one of the results of a wider thinking might be that - as we say in my native language - "when the sky drops down, all sparrows will be dead".
You cannot protect yourself physically against everything.

But as we are talking here rather (at least that's my understanding) about private weather data, we might see the importance of such data in a different light.
They may be personally precious, but are not life- or survival-critical.
I think we are talking here more about short-term blackouts which occur here and there in daily life.

But it's not bad to recall once in a while the fact that you can't protect and insure yourself against everything ...

I take the liberty of making one more remark with reference to Mattk's quote below
"UPS's are by far the most limited in regard any type of serious data maintenance capability ..."
By the way, the batteries of WH65 or a WS80 are a factual UPS for these sensor arrays, and are very useful - and hold for years.

[davidmc36]

As long as it is not a Zombie Appoclypse and I can get gas for generator......

[Mattk]

No one can not protect the integrity of a station and observation data for ever but many quite frankly don't even understand what is really possible especially in remote situations but some are obviously thinking beyond reality as well.

Just putting forward the thinking people , this can be done, it's your option, nobody is forcing you to think outside of your own square, this has nothing to do with any professional weather station which most don't have a long run time anyway. Most are looking at this from the wrong end and maybe not understand just how simple the solution is?.   

[davidmc36]

.... automatically started ... an automated refill system.....more important to have energy for your fridge...

Pshaw.

Automatic is done with Natural Gas 10,000 watts or more. Live Large!