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Miscellaneous Debris => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: chief-david on March 12, 2020, 09:51:24 AM

Title: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 12, 2020, 09:51:24 AM
Not meant to be a political thread.

It is crazy right now. Do what needs to be done to stay healthy and safe. Don't watch the Today show.

With that said-I took a leave from teaching. I have been home 3 weeks. Stress, disrespect, lack of support, rising heart rate and BP and developing anxiety was just too much. Total burnout. Even looking for a job outside of education.

This virus talk is not helping. I try not to watch the news.

We have already cancelled one trip to CA.  We may be cancelling the one to NYC for a college visit and Broadway intensive for kid #2.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 12, 2020, 10:22:49 AM
I'm also one that probably over worries but sometimes it does have advantages because I started prepping well over a month ago with supplies so never had any issues finding what I needed.

Good luck with your job search.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on March 12, 2020, 12:48:39 PM
There will be an epic fallout before it's all over.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 12, 2020, 01:40:22 PM
I work in higher education, and today is day one for everyone working from home.  Only three days ago, the president was still adamant that we would NEVER, EVER have a work-from-home policy.  Now, we sent all of the resident students home, and transitioned to online format classes for the next 2.5 weeks minimum.

The NY State governor ordered all state (SUNY) and NYC (CUNY) schools to transition to online-only for the rest of the spring semester (mid-May).  Other big schools like Princeton are following suit.

I was watching the early TV news on the NYC CBS affiliate this morning, and noticed that they have had a lot of second and third-string reporters on camera.  I think that it was yesterday that they announced two people in the CBS network news department tested positive, and the NYC local newsroom is in the same building.  They had their third-string weather woman doing her reports from their storm vehicle out in Columbus Circle, where they normally do it in-studio.  Their traffic woman was not in, and they were sorta filling her void with audio reports with camera video from their news chopper.

Interesting times we live in.....
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on March 12, 2020, 02:29:41 PM
The weather in Des Moines is cloudy and might rain, snow this weekend, but then it melts later.    I just got off of facebook commenting that a friend of mine (real friend)  is pissed off because she can't go to her credit union and get a free bag of popcorn. Trust me this lady licks her fingers.

The three state Universities in Iowa have extended spring break and now going online.  Grinnell college  is closing until June, canceling commencement and every class online as of tomorrow. 

Take precautions seriously. I'd even go as far as buying some rubber gloves , the surgical kind for going out and about in public, then tossing them in the trash and washing your hands.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 12, 2020, 03:53:43 PM
Not trying to scare anyone we have enough already. I was listening to some of the interviews with Infectious Disease expert Michael Osterholm explaining why this is so contagious. The primary way it infects is through the air secondary is touching face eyes nose.
 
Those people on the Crusie Liners stood no chance and why so many caught it. They recirculated the air on the ships so quarantine people to their rooms was the worst thing they could have done.

We really need to wear N95 mask in public or keep a 10-foot distance. I'm sure once the supply is built up so everyone can have a mask it will be recommended to wear in public. I wish the CDC would just be honest about this.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: BeaverMeadow on March 12, 2020, 04:36:33 PM
Never touch a public door knob with a bare hand. Also those pens in stores that you need to use to use to sign credit card pads -- never was a very good idea.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DoctorKnow on March 12, 2020, 04:40:15 PM
Gas station pump handles are bad also. Crazy days we find ourselves mixed up in... The most important thing is to not panic.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Waimarie on March 12, 2020, 05:03:40 PM
We really need to wear N95 mask in public or keep a 10-foot distance. I'm sure once the supply is built up so everyone can have a mask it will be recommended to wear in public. I wish the CDC would just be honest about this.

I worked on the "Bird Flu" threat a few years back for the NZ Government and one of the main issues we found was the ignorance around face masks.  N95 for the general public is a non-starter.  Very few will be able to get an air tight seal around the mask and without that there is little point in using one.  The biggest advantage of wearing any mask in this situation is to stop people touching their faces which is how the virus can get into the lungs, not from breathing it in.  For this a cheap paper filter mask is just as good as a full blown N95/P2 mask.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 12, 2020, 05:23:48 PM
We really need to wear N95 mask in public or keep a 10-foot distance. I'm sure once the supply is built up so everyone can have a mask it will be recommended to wear in public. I wish the CDC would just be honest about this.

I worked on the "Bird Flu" threat a few years back for the NZ Government and one of the main issues we found was the ignorance around face masks.  N95 for the general public is a non-starter.  Very few will be able to get an air tight seal around the mask and without that there is little point in using one.  The biggest advantage of wearing any mask in this situation is to stop people touching their faces which is how the virus can get into the lungs, not from breathing it in.  For this a cheap paper filter mask is just as good as a full blown N95/P2 mask.

The paper one size fits all are what we are talking about as long as they have an N95 rating.  The rubber cartridge type need to be fitted yearly.  I've worn both since 1978 in the fossil fuel power industry. 
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Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 12, 2020, 05:47:39 PM
Unprecedented...NCAA tournament canceled, men and women; NHL canceled; MLB spring training canceled with at least a two week delay to the regular season. Already getting stir-crazy... :shock:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 12, 2020, 06:05:01 PM
Live tracking of every plane in the air at this very moment. Second image is a close-up. After midnight tonight no more flights in, with some exceptions. It will be interesting to see what this looks like tomorrow.

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Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 12, 2020, 06:37:56 PM
Hopefully this won't get to a 9/11 scenario where not one single aircraft, except military, was airborne over the US a few hours after the second tower fell. That would trash the economy even worse than Wall Street.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 12, 2020, 06:52:00 PM
Tonight's local TV news on their NYC station was out of the CBS Los Angeles news studio, using the Los Angeles anchor.  The NYC regular evening weather guy was reporting from the empty streets of a village on coastal Connecticut, using what I assume is their second storm remote truck because they have two and one was in NYC for the morning broadcasts.  The weather guy didn't even know the name of the anchor that he was throwing back to at the end of his segment.  Remember, this guy is in the #1 TV market in the country, and frequently appears on the CBS network news when there is a weather story in the northeast.  It is obvious that there is a lot of confusion in their shared NYC broadcast center right now.

In terms of content, it looks like a few of the NYC field reporters are still filing stories, but everything was about Coronavirus.  It also looked like the Los Angeles folks were scraping the national virus stuff to fill the rest of the 30 minutes.  Not one subway turnstile jumper, bodega robbery, parking scandal, or "feels good" filler piece.....
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 12, 2020, 07:05:47 PM
I'm glad I don't need toilet paper.  The east side Wal-Mart in Stillwater was totally sold out of toilet paper.  I guess people associate flu with the runs.

OSU and OU in Oklahoma have extended spring break and will go online.   Thunder basketball game in Oklahoma City was suddenly canceled because a Utah Jazz player tested positive.  Cher concert in OKC got canceled.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 12, 2020, 07:17:11 PM
Speaking of TP I read a lot of funny jokes on social media yesterday, Like

" If the first thing you do when you panic is buy toilet paper. You suck at panicking. "
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 12, 2020, 07:19:26 PM
Speaking of TP I read a lot of funny jokes on social media yesterday, Like

" If the first thing you do when you panic is buy toilet paper. You suck at panicking. "
[tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bushman on March 12, 2020, 08:18:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR0lOtdvqyg
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on March 12, 2020, 08:39:15 PM
This is the scary scenario that can happen.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/who-gets-hospital-bed/607807/
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bushman on March 12, 2020, 08:44:57 PM
This is the scary scenario that can happen.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/who-gets-hospital-bed/607807/

This already happens:  it's called triage.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on March 12, 2020, 10:58:15 PM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/12/tom-hanks-coronavirus-actor-has-covid-19-diabetes-heres-risk/5030111002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/12/tom-hanks-coronavirus-actor-has-covid-19-diabetes-heres-risk/5030111002/)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 13, 2020, 03:34:56 AM
How did China defeat the spread? Aggressive “social distancing” measures implemented in the entire country included canceling sporting events and shuttering theaters. Schools extended breaks that began in mid-January for the Lunar New Year. Many businesses closed shop. Anyone who went outdoors had to wear a mask.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/china-s-aggressive-measures-have-slowed-coronavirus-they-may-not-work-other-countries
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 13, 2020, 04:29:23 AM
Tests indicate HCoV-19 can survive through air transmission is plausible, as the virus can remain viable in aerosols for multiple hours and on surfaces up to days,"

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487110-tests-indicate-coronavirus-can-survive-in-the-air?fbclid=IwAR1wj-VwIhrc7xaUpng6510FPBYI_vT7FGtkhWYr_G61muSS0RRLgNDVvtA&mod=article_inline
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on March 13, 2020, 05:37:29 AM
This is the scary scenario that can happen.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/who-gets-hospital-bed/607807/

This already happens:  it's called triage.

Triage of combat situation proportions was the point. If you let it overrun you the next wave of patients will be the PTSD of the ones who had to make those calls.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 13, 2020, 08:16:58 AM
My school district closed today. Parent says he/she was in contact with someone with CV.

taking caution.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on March 13, 2020, 10:34:08 AM
My college kid is home for the rest of the semester. Remote classes start in two weeks. High school kid home for a minimum of two weeks to be reassessed end of the month. Metro Boston is one of the hot spots (do a web search on "biogen boston coronavirus") so we're taking this pretty seriously. No one in the house is in the compromised-health population but I don't want to get it and pass it on to anyone who is.

Saw some estimates from epidemiologists today that predict the peak isn't coming until May.

Whoever said "may you live in interesting times" is no friend of mine...
 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on March 13, 2020, 11:00:21 AM
All provincial funded schools here closed for three weeks. More to follow I'm sure.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on March 13, 2020, 11:02:21 AM
...

Saw some estimates from epidemiologists today that predict the peak isn't coming until May.

I saw reports that 3 months hence they are returning to public at the epicenter.

So when did it start for your locale?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on March 13, 2020, 11:30:34 AM
I saw reports that 3 months hence they are returning to public at the epicenter.

So when did it start for your locale?

First case in MA was Feb. 1, but the Biogen meeting that is considered the start of the wider outbreak was March 5. By the 10th, 92 cases were identified (presumptive and confirmed).

Edit: The Biogen meeting was the previous week. March 5 is when three cases from that meeting were identified.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 13, 2020, 01:27:58 PM
Hopefully this local message stays true:

There is a rumor about there being an active case of COVID-19 at Stillwater Medical Center. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE! However, if we do end up with a case, we are prepared to handle it and will keep our patients and our staff safe. Thank you.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 13, 2020, 02:12:34 PM
We had a similar rumor going around that there was a positive also turns out false. Oh and this was from a supposedly reliable source... NOT.
They do have the clinics here testing possible cases but we also have the influenza A going around.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 14, 2020, 02:42:38 PM
So much for this travel ban. Not seeing the number of planes decrease from a couple days ago. See my previous post on this thread for a comparison before the travel ban.

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Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 14, 2020, 03:24:49 PM
Some good news yesterday the Nebraska Dept of health said only 2% tested for suspected COVID-19 has been positive. So basically 14 cases statewide and 7 of whom were from the same family that recently traveled to California and Nevada.

The clinics here in small-town have tested around 10 people suspected with zero reported positive.

This whole thing may be more bark than bite.

Correction 7 in the family.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 14, 2020, 03:26:35 PM
I can see a decrease in density for sure in your picture comparison re flights
re testing
sometimes follow up tests are needed
but for every 1 person positive there could be 100's more unknown cases (and even those people do not know) due to the incubation period can be long
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on March 14, 2020, 04:15:36 PM
I sure dont see the accelerated rate of cases here that was seen in China, Italy, and now Spain. I think we are just not as densely packed kids all the time by default.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bushman on March 14, 2020, 04:37:50 PM
I sure dont see the accelerated rate of cases here that was seen in China, Italy, and now Spain. I think we are just not as densely packed kids all the time by default.

US is only about a week in.  You need to look at the acceleration rate - that is  going to rise a lot of the next 7-10 days.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on March 14, 2020, 05:40:12 PM
I was musing about time line. Some acceleration  to come yet no doubt but with such widespread shutdowns at an early stage surely will curb or at least flatten the curve, surely.

I've not had the intestinal fortitude to check Mutual account in like two weeks.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: BeaverMeadow on March 14, 2020, 05:56:39 PM
There's a very illuminating interactive chart at the link below that illustrates the different potential impacts of covid-19 on the U.S. population depending on the speed of implementing precautionary measures and the intensity of those interventions. The link should be accessible without a subscription as a few articles are usually allowed to be viewed before any restrictions are applied via cookies.

To quote the authors of the accompanying article:
None of us know what lies ahead. But the wise uncertainty of epidemiologists is preferable to the confident bluster of television blowhards. The one thing we can be confident of is that enormous risks lie ahead — including a huge loss of life — if we don’t take aggressive action.


 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/13/opinion/coronavirus-trump-response.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage



Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: tweatherman on March 14, 2020, 07:16:22 PM
This has been around since the 1960's!

Coronaviruses were first discovered in the 1960s.[8] The earliest ones discovered were an infectious bronchitis virus in chickens and two in human patients with the common cold (later named human coronavirus 229E and human coronavirus OC43).[9] Other members of this family have since been identified, including SARS-CoV in 2003, HCoV NL63 in 2004, HKU1 in 2005, MERS-CoV in 2012, and SARS-CoV-2 (formerly known as 2019-nCoV) in 2019. Most of these have involved serious respiratory tract infections.
Almost everyone gets infected with a coronavirus at some point. Usually, the symptoms are mild and last for just a few days. In rare cases, a coronavirus infection can lead to a more serious problem like pneumonia or MERS, a severe infection of the respiratory tract that hasn't been found outside of the Arabian Peninsula.

tweatherman
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on March 14, 2020, 07:40:07 PM
This is a coronavirus for which no one has immunity (hence the "novel" tag). Everyone who has had the common cold has had a coronavirus. But that doesn't do you any good if you catch this one.

The two biggest issues at this point:

1) Preventing infection of those who would be most vunerable (older population, those with other health conditions that lower their ability to fight it).

2) "Flattening the curve" - spreading the infections out over time so that at no particular point does the health care system get overwhelmed.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 14, 2020, 10:04:13 PM
The Stillwater Jazz Band concert wasn't canceled and neither was the big bike race. 

The rain still fell, mud was still splattered and champagne still sprayed on the winner.  Despite the national emergency regarding the coronavirus, Stillwater’s annual gravel bicycle race The Mid South happened Saturday.

About half the field of entrants showed up – which still numbered over 1,000 – and after a short lightning delay in the morning, started their races across Payne County a little after 8 a.m.

With the rain pouring down and cowbells ringing down Main Street, the riders pressed on, most for 50 miles and some for the challenging 100-mile course.

Event manager Sally Asher said she was pleased with how the race was still able to go on in spite of many events closing around the country over the past week.  More at:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/the-show-goes-on-the-mid-south-bike-race-crowns/article_aec31909-3458-5579-b3c3-16d21e0a5c13.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/the-show-goes-on-the-mid-south-bike-race-crowns/article_aec31909-3458-5579-b3c3-16d21e0a5c13.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 14, 2020, 11:41:35 PM
Things must be about to go bad here in the UK ...

One of the UKs largest supermarkets (In the early hours of a Sunday) is sending out this email to customers ...
Quote
Dear **********,

You will have seen that, due to the ongoing uncertainty around the full impact of Coronavirus, supermarkets have been much busier than usual and customers are choosing to stock up.

I wanted to personally reassure you that we have more food and other essential items coming to us from manufacturers and into our warehouses and distribution centres. If we all shop just for the food that we and our families need, there will be enough for everyone.

I also wanted to let you know that at Sainsbury's, we are working really hard to ensure this remains the case. Over the past two weeks we have:

- Ordered more stock of essential items from our suppliers

- Put more capacity into our warehouses and

- Set limits on a small number of items, including some cleaning products, soap and pain relief.

This is a precautionary measure - if everyone shops normally, there will be enough for everyone.

There are gaps on shelves because of increased demand, but we have new stock arriving regularly and we're doing our best to keep shelves stocked. Our store colleagues are working tirelessly and doing the best job they can.

Which brings me onto a request. Please think before you buy and only buy what you and your family need. If we all do this then we can make sure we have enough for everyone. And please help elderly and vulnerable friends, family and neighbours with their shopping if you can.

I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for your continued support and to thank our colleagues who are all working incredibly hard to ensure we can continue to serve our customers well.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 15, 2020, 05:04:55 AM
That supermarket chain is missing the big picture. People are not stocking up because they fear that there will be shortages. No, people are stocking up because they are self quarantining to limit potential exposure to the virus. People don't want to go to the grocery store every 3 days as they previously were accustomed to.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 15, 2020, 05:22:20 AM
Yes, that was why I started stocking a month ago was to limit exposure and minimize chances being I'm now at a higher risk above 60.
The Novel tag is what worried me about this not really knowing about the long term especially with people still testing positive after 40 days in the Nebraska Disease Control Center is a little scary.
Hopefully, the virus is dead they are petri dish testing now. If they find the virus still active this would be bad, I'll leave it at that.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on March 15, 2020, 06:35:27 AM
The supermarket situation is pretty much mirrored here. Ridiculous really. It is downright abhorrent though the couple buying out wipes and marking up outrageous amount.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 15, 2020, 07:16:18 PM
Effective March 15, Wal-Marts that have been open 24 hr a day will start closing at 11pm and reopen at 6am.   It's to better keep up with customer demand by stocking products, and to clean and sanitize stores.

Meanwhile:

"A person in Payne County has tested positive for the novel coronavirus, according to the Oklahoma State Department of Health.

The OSDH released a situation update Sunday. The update included three new positive cases in Payne, Cleveland and Tulsa counties.

"County health officials are working with each case to determine close contacts and any further need for testing," the release states. "Moving forward, the CDC is no longer confirming presumptive positive cases. All positive cases reported in the Oklahoma State Department of Health public health laboratory will stand as confirmed.

"We continue to work with health care providers and are testing individuals who are recommended for testing by a provider."

Oklahoma now has seven total cases five women and two men. Three are in the 18-49 range, three are in the 50-64 range and one is is 65-plus.

A rumor last week tried to tie a case to Stillwater Medical Center. That was unfounded, and SMC published a statement earlier today that said Payne County's COVID-19 has nothing to do with the hospital.

"We have not yet received detailed information from OSDH, as they are continuing their investigation," the statement reads. "At this point, we can assure you that this case is NOT connected to Stillwater Medical Center or Oklahoma State University."

After learning the news, Stillwater Mayor Will Joyce tweeted that it "was not surprising."

"It's not surprising that the coronavirus has shown up close to home, and it's not a reason to panic," he wrote. "As we announced Friday, the City is taking steps (to) impose and encourage social distancing in Stillwater, and we all need to commit ourselves to slowing the spread of the virus to the full extent possible.

"We will be in communication with State and local health officials and evaluating whether additional mitigation plans should be implemented. I will do my best to keep you informed as we move forward."

The City of Stillwater on Friday sent out a release that discouraged large gatherings but did not call for an out-right ban as some cities have. It is also closing the Senior Activity Center. Nursing homes around town have discouraged visitors and several events have been canceled.   Excerpt from the March 15 Stillwater News Press. "
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 15, 2020, 08:43:21 PM
UK government is quietly 'suggesting' that people aged 70+ might think about closing their doors for three to four months !

Recommending that others do their shopping, knock the door and run  :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on March 15, 2020, 08:45:13 PM
Massachusetts has ordered all K-12 schools (public and private) closed through April 6. Restaurants and bars closed until April 17, but kitchens can stay open for takeout and delivery. No gatherings over 25 people. The Governor said just yesterday he wasn't going to do this, but the lack of voluntary adherence (particularly as displayed all over social media) forced his hand.

164 cases known in the state, fewer than 800 tests done so far. These numbers will be changing dramatically over the next few days.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on March 15, 2020, 08:52:48 PM
UK government is quietly 'suggesting' that people aged 70+ might think about closing their doors for three to four months !

Recommending that others do their shopping, knock the door and run  :roll:

Grocers here are advertising the service for free. Just pay for grub and get a drop and run delivery.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 15, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Oh, no, this is probably how it going to look like in towns across much of America in coming days.  Just one case can do it at least in Oklahoma.

Stillwater Declares State of Emergency Over COVID-19: City to close some facilities, cancel activities and meetings in City-owned facilities until April 5

MEDIA RELEASE

(STILLWATER, OKLAHOMA / March 15, 2020) — Due to a recently confirmed case of COVID-19 in Payne County, Mayor Will Joyce has declared a state of emergency in Stillwater in response to the spreading COVID-19 virus.

This declaration closes some City-owned facilities, cancels events and meetings, and highly encourages local restaurants, bars and businesses to impose strict social distancing measures. It will begin Monday, March 16 at 12 a.m. and will remain in effect until Sunday, April 5—but it can be extended if need be.

The City-owned facilities that will be closed during this time are listed below:
• Stillwater Public Library
• Stillwater Community Center
• Stillwater Senior Center
• Stillwater Parks and Recreation (facilities and events)
• Stillwater Area Sports Association (leagues and events)

All core City services will remain operational and all City employees will report to work as usual.

This declaration includes the cancellation of all activities and meetings at the Stillwater Community Center, the Senior Activity Center, Stillwater Area Sports Association (SASA) and Stillwater Public Library. Park shelter rentals will be closed, though residents are still permitted to use Stillwater’s parks. Events at Lake McMurtry will be cancelled, however individual use of the lake will be allowed. Planning Commission, citizen task force and City advisory board meetings are cancelled during this time. Municipal Court dockets are cancelled—the court clerk will issue written notification of new court dates.

Stillwater City Council, Stillwater Utilities Authority (SUA), and the Stillwater Medical Center Authority will meet as usual and remain open to the public, although steps will be taken to maintain social distancing for in-person attendees. Council and SUA meetings will remain televised. Check stillwater.org/agenda to see potential meeting cancellations.

In addition, the City strongly encourages the cancellation of all in-person gatherings. Restaurants, bars and similar facilities are encouraged to limit the number of patrons allowed inside and to pursue take-out or delivery options. Gym facilities are also encouraged to discontinue group activities.

“We understand these are major disruptions to local businesses and to all of our daily routines. However, this was not a decision that was taken lightly,” said Mayor Will Joyce. “The spread of COVID-19 is a serious public health emergency and we must be aggressive in our efforts to protect the lives of our community members. We are in close contact with all public health authorities and our local partners. We will continue to be vigilant and responsive as the situation evolves.”
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 16, 2020, 07:41:01 AM
Looks like all sporting events are canceled now they even played the Nebraska state championship BB games without fans only allowing immediate family members this past Saturday but one thing the virus can't cancel is my enthusiasm for the weather.  :grin:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: BeaverMeadow on March 16, 2020, 08:51:34 AM
... one thing the virus can't cancel is my enthusiasm for the weather.  :grin:

Hopefully warmer weather will diminish covid-19 just like it does with the seasonal flu.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CKayaks on March 16, 2020, 10:19:26 AM
So much for this travel ban. Not seeing the number of planes decrease from a couple days ago. See my previous post on this thread for a comparison before the travel ban.


Many of the EU airports have a "use it or loose it" rule for the routes. I do not recall if that applied to domestic or international flights or both. Might be empty planes flying. I'll see if I can find the reference I read on this. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CKayaks on March 16, 2020, 10:24:24 AM
This has been around since the 1960's!

Coronaviruses were first discovered in the 1960s.


Saying "coronavirus" is almost analogous to saying "bird".  Lots of difference between a sparrow and a hawk. Wise to consider this one might have more of a bite than some of the others.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CKayaks on March 16, 2020, 10:28:48 AM
So much for this travel ban. Not seeing the number of planes decrease from a couple days ago. See my previous post on this thread for a comparison before the travel ban.


Many of the EU airports have a "use it or loose it" rule for the routes. I do not recall if that applied to domestic or international flights or both. Might be empty planes flying. I'll see if I can find the reference I read on this.

The article...
https://www.secretflying.com/posts/airlines-running-ghost-flights-to-hold-on-to-use-them-or-lose-them-airport-slots/ (https://www.secretflying.com/posts/airlines-running-ghost-flights-to-hold-on-to-use-them-or-lose-them-airport-slots/)


BUT so much for that theory on the graphics...
https://www.secretflying.com/posts/eu-suspends-use-it-or-lose-it-airport-slot-rule/ (https://www.secretflying.com/posts/eu-suspends-use-it-or-lose-it-airport-slot-rule/)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 16, 2020, 11:42:21 AM
Watched an interview of a woman today, she and the husband were on a cruise ship both tested positive but were asymptomatic (showing no signs) even the husband had serious other issues but had no signs of the virus.
The husband is still in quarantine after 3 weeks because he is still showing positive.

This virus is a strange one for sure asymptomatic for some while deadly for others. I'm hearing there are two different strains at least so it has mutated at least one time. I take it they had the less dangerous strain as the virus mutates its usually not as bad because the virus tries to stay alive and not kill the host.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 16, 2020, 12:33:23 PM
 At my local Walmart this morning, toilet paper was still totally sold out and now paper towels are out, too. Clorox bleach is running low with cheaper generic sold out.  I was mainly shopping for food and had everything I wanted.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on March 16, 2020, 12:46:00 PM
At my local Walmart this morning, toilet paper was still totally sold out and now paper towels are out, too. Clorox bleach is running low with cheaper generic sold out.  I was mainly shopping for food and had everything I wanted.

My sister is in the planning stages of a bathroom remodel and the owner of the store she's dealing with said that all of a sudden people are asking about getting bidets installed.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 16, 2020, 12:54:32 PM
Feeling fortunate living in a lower populated area. We still have lots of food for some reason exception fresh vegetables and fruits are low that could be a supply issue, however. Even IGA had toilet paper on sale yesterday as you enter the store.

Meanwhile, Houston area 4 million people where much of family lives is a nightmare. One daughter told me every store is empty they can only stay open for about 6 hours and then close down to restock which takes about 18 hours. Lines outside are in the 1000's waiting for doors to open at places like Walmart, Costco, Sams.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on March 16, 2020, 01:00:03 PM
...
My sister is in the planning stages of a bathroom remodel and the owner of the store she's dealing with said that all of a sudden people are asking about getting bidets installed.
I was ahead of the curve in that I ordered a bidet toilet seat from Costco 2 weeks ago.  A handyman adroitly installed it and the needed GFI electrical outlet on Friday.  He also serviced my chimney-mounted Vantage Pro2+ and Vantage Vue along with several other chores like replacing my Moen kitchen faucet with a Kohler I had on hand, again from Costco circa 2018.

Try wiping peanut butter from a hardwood floor with just dry paper towels.  (Good luck with that.)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DRoberts on March 16, 2020, 03:36:18 PM
Feeling fortunate living in a lower populated area. We still have lots of food for some reason exception fresh vegetables and fruits are low that could be a supply issue, however. Even IGA had toilet paper on sale yesterday as you enter the store.

Meanwhile, Houston area 4 million people where much of family lives is a nightmare. One daughter told me every store is empty they can only stay open for about 6 hours and then close down to restock which takes about 18 hours. Lines outside are in the 1000's waiting for doors to open at places like Walmart, Costco, Sams.

We average about 5 people per sq mile in this county, about 1,000 sq miles.  Our county  seat grocery store looked like it had been hit by blizzard fever. There were a lot more than average numbers roaming the aisles today when I was there. Low to nothing left in the paper aisle; frozen veg section, sanitizers of all kinds missing; fresh veg/produce varied, but a lot of bare spaces. Restocking is usually on Tuesday, but this is way not normal for our store.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 16, 2020, 04:15:39 PM
Hopefully warmer weather will diminish corvis-19 just like it does with the seasonal flu.

What were the average temperatures in Tehran last week?  Iran has a huge infection, and I'm too busy patching up work-from-home stuff to look and see for myself.....
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 16, 2020, 04:49:21 PM
Looks like all sporting events are canceled now
I'm already jonesing, and I'm sure I'm not alone and we've just started. MLB just stated they won't even attempt to start play til mid-May. Frankly, I'm even dubious about that. Maybe sports will resume initially without fans in attendance...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on March 16, 2020, 05:50:04 PM
I hear ya about the sports.
The only problem is the weather sucks too. Nothing to look forward too. It's like the virus took all the fronts away.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 16, 2020, 05:59:12 PM
The only problem is the weather sucks too. Nothing to look forward too. It's like the virus took all the fronts away.
Not for my neck of the woods. Rain Wednesday with decent shot at T-storms as the upper low of the coast showing a very nice cold core. \:D/
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 16, 2020, 06:38:09 PM
Weather is giving some entertainment at least.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on March 16, 2020, 06:49:33 PM
Good for you guys. 86 plus here for a while.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on March 16, 2020, 10:19:08 PM
Tomorrow (17-Mar-2020) the shelter-in-place health order for 7 SF Bay Counties (6+Million people) begins for 3 weeks.
Grocery, Pharmacy, Gas, Banks remain open.  Restaurants for take-out only. Bars and other businesses close.

We're hunkering down here in Saratoga (Santa Clara County).  The toilet paper madness hit our local Safeway and Costco.
Surprisingly, we have plenty on hand from one normal purchase at Costco two weeks ago to last for 2 more months :)
Stay healthy, all!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: BeaverMeadow on March 16, 2020, 10:51:16 PM
Hopefully warmer weather will diminish covid-19 just like it does with the seasonal flu.

What were the average temperatures in Tehran last week?  Iran has a huge infection, and I'm too busy patching up work-from-home stuff to look and see for myself.....

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on March 17, 2020, 02:41:45 AM
doesnt look like the warmer weather theory is plausible ..

Sharp rise in South East Asia

Jonathan Head
BBC South East Asia Correspondent
The sudden rise in coronavirus infections in several South-east Asian countries has dimmed hopes that warmer weather might slow the spread in this region.

Malaysia recorded the sharpest rise on Monday, 190 new infections, bringing the total to 428. The new government has imposed the strictest lockdown in the region, banning Malaysians from travelling overseas and foreign visitor entry, closing all schools, universities, places of worship and most businesses for two weeks.

Thailand saw sharp rises over the weekend to a total of 147 cases.

In both Malaysia and Thailand new infection spikes are being linked to specific mass gatherings of people.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 17, 2020, 03:30:51 AM
I had this long conversation with several people living here yesterday that think the virus has been around since January. It has caused pneumonia in many including a family of 4 all getting really sick at the same time. Very unusual when 3 family members get hospitalized at the same time with pneumonia. When I asked about Influenza that was the kicker all showed negative and all had the same symptoms being described now as Covid 19.

Other people have been saying when they got sick this year it was the worst cases of the flu ever but few if any were actually tested to confirm they had the Influenza.

When I was arguing about what about the reports out of China and Italy of 350 deaths a day they said many have died here also of unexplained pneumonia even one person said their mother passed away but there was no testing or kits available.

So there is a group of people locally at least that think we are being duped to collapse the economy with all these closures and cancellations and the Coronavirus has been here since at least January.

I'm still skeptical but WOW, what if?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 17, 2020, 04:38:54 AM
I'm still skeptical but WOW, what if?
One thing for sure, we'll all find out..one way or the other.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 17, 2020, 04:53:54 AM
I'm still skeptical but WOW, what if?
One thing for sure, we'll all find out..one way or the other.

Yep,  my sentiments also. If they are right its been around for a few months and doesn't get much worse we may have already peaked. Cases will rise of course because we now have testing. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 17, 2020, 05:26:09 AM
[youtube]https://youtu.be/zfjcEiW-Rzc[/youtube]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on March 17, 2020, 06:36:03 AM
Dr. Drew above has it almost right, but the medical community has dropped the ball on testing.  Only looking for viral shedding in those individuals who display active symptoms of fever and cough is like fencing hogs with two strands of barbed wire a la cattle.  It doesn't work at all because the asymptomatic carriers you're not looking for are wandering the world undetected and unhindered.  The epidemiologists and infectious disease mavens have conned us into thinking they know what they're doing while in reality the disease has been roaming unchecked for an undetermined amount of time.  Yet the 'experts' haven't acknowledged this obvious fact!

Only testing for past disease with a specific antigen-antibody serological test will reveal the true extend of COVID-19's global spread.  Testing for current viral shedding in people with symptoms is like trying to stop a rainstorm with a tennis racket.  You may keep hail off, but you're still getting soaked.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 17, 2020, 10:13:30 AM
To cut a long story short ...

the beteljuice has a chronic condition that requires the observation / attention of (at least) a nurse once or twice a week.

My doctors practise has just called with 30 mins notice to cancel my appointment(s) as 'Non-essential' plus I'm counted as 'At Risk', and by the way "Do I have a cough ?"

If I really need their attention try calling to see what they can do !

I have a hospital appointment for a MRI scan 25th March - I'm expecting a call about that !!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 17, 2020, 11:17:51 AM
The restrictions in the other big college town in Oklahoma are even worse:

COVID-19 has landed in Norman and Mayor Breea Clark is taking big steps to mitigate the virus spread by closing all bars, some restaurants and other businesses inside city limits.

Effective at the close of the special session Monday night, all bars will close within 48 hours. The rule also applies to restaurants that do not offer delivery or curbside pickup, Clark declared. Those allowed to remain open must close by 9 every night.  Businesses also affected include private clubs, gyms, health studios, theaters and commercial amusement facilities. The declaration forbids gatherings of more than 50 people.
 
The mayor's action comes after she proclaimed a state of emergency for the city on Friday following U.S. President Donald Trump’s national declaration.

Clark said her actions are less restrictive than other nations who have strangled all businesses from opening unless they offer essential services.

“What has been happening around the world, banks, pharmacies and grocery stores have been permitted to stay open for obvious reasons,” Clark said. “We’re all trying to be proactive in this and hopefully by being proactive we’re closed a shorter amount of time. I think people realize that.”

Monday afternoon, Gov. Kevin Stitt held a conference call with state and city leaders but Clark was not satisfied with his recommendations.

“I was really hoping for statewide mandate,” Clark said. “A true message that this is how we’re going to approach this as a state and his failure to do that as a state, keeps this piece-meal, city-by-city approach which benefits no one. Again there’s no walls around cities.”

Other cities have taken similar measures to Norman. Clark read from an ordinance Dallas adopted. Houston has done the same.

Restaurants which do not qualify but remain open could be fined, but Clark said she did not have the details.

“There is the ability to fine people,” Clark said. “What I’ve asked our police to do is start with a warning. This is real. This is serious. Then move forward with fining after that.”
https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/norman-mayor-decrees-bars-some-restaurants-other-businesses-to-close/article_1bbf0434-47ee-5323-b44d-2287a91392d5.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/norman-mayor-decrees-bars-some-restaurants-other-businesses-to-close/article_1bbf0434-47ee-5323-b44d-2287a91392d5.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Garth Bock on March 17, 2020, 12:46:39 PM
I am amazed at the disinformation and hoaxes that are flooding the internet. Some of my friends who have college degrees have been re-posting not only hoaxes but pure garbage science about this. It seems they don't see the red flags in some of these supposed preventions/cures that scream hoax. I feel like sending them an email telling them that they have won the lottery and need to send me $5000 to collect their winnings (  :grin: ). When a posting says..."send to all your friends/contacts" it is a hoax. Here are some real loo-loos....
1) Get a blow dryer, set it on low and breath in the warm air to kill the virus in your sinuses.
2) Turn off your cell phone or disable 5G because the virus started in China right after they deployed 5G
3) Drink only distilled water because it will kill the virus (no it just drains minerals from the body - reverse osmosis)
4) The government is letting this virus get out of control while they break encryption/passwords/security so they can monitor your emails and internet activity
5) Taking a colloidal silver solution will kill the virus in 48 hours (Jim Bakker - former PTL minister and prison inmate - his new survivalist ministry - Morningside is just 10 miles down the road from me)
6) Oil of oregano prevents the disease...(some garlic, tomato sauce, and a few other ingredients and you have Marinara sauce)
7) Wearing a mask such as the ones you wear when drywalling or sanding that you can buy at a hardware store will protect you
8)  The virus was released to discredit Trump before an election
9) Warm weather, a  hot bath or shower or sitting in a sauna will kill the virus
10) China/Taliban/Dr. Evil released the virus to bring the US to its knees prior to a nuclear attack (Nooooklear Weapons - Chekov in Star Trek)
11) The government is using it to invoke Marshall Law ( notice that it is the wrong one...should be Martial Law) to gain control of the country

I am reminded of the State Farm commercial where a lady proclaims ..."it must be true...I saw it on the internet".
Just remember the immortal words of Franklin Delano Roosevelt..."we have nothing to fear...but fear itself"
 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 17, 2020, 01:39:09 PM
Disinformation is always on social media and should be expected but liars and hoaxes is another story.


#7 may be correct if it's an N95 rated mask. Our government is purchasing industrial versions from companies around the country for health workers because the green medical versions are still in short supply. One of the first things brought up at today's press briefing about the mask shortage. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Garth Bock on March 17, 2020, 01:46:25 PM
Disinformation is always on social media and should be expected but liars and hoaxes is another story.


#7 may be correct if it's an N95 rated mask. Our government is purchasing industrial versions from companies around the country for health workers because the green medical versions are still in short supply. One of the first things brought up at today's press briefing about the mask shortage.

True....but the public is being misled into buying those cheap mask you get in the hardware store

I saw the funniest picture on FB...a guy had strapped a coffee filter to his face and had written on it ...Couphy Filter.... :grin: :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 17, 2020, 02:41:33 PM
(https://images.hvtraffic.com/images/2020/03/16/20200316003839-f59c9976.png)


.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 17, 2020, 04:38:23 PM
Stillwater will step up it's restrictions starting Wednesday.  Oklahoma City and Tulsa are doing the same.  But this is surely a reflection of what it's going to be like in a lot cities across the USA.  Oklahoma schools closed until April 6.  I was surprised the local Planet Fitness looked kinda busy Monday night:

Stillwater Mayor Will Joyce made an emergency declaration Tuesday that shuts down gyms, fitness facilities, entertainment venues, movie theaters, bowling alleys, skating rinks, private clubs, bars and lounges “located within the corporate limits of the City of Stillwater.” The closures begin Wednesday.

The new emergency order comes following new guidelines from the federal government on social distancing in light of the novel coronavirus. It runs through April 5, unless terminated earlier by proclamation.

“We realize the COVID-19 prevention strategies that have rolled out this week by schools, businesses, and all levels of government are concerning for community members,” Joyce said in a news release. “We empathize and want to thank Stillwater residents and businesses for their flexibility and willingness to make adjustments to their daily lives to help protect and promote the health and wellbeing of their neighbors.”

Also included in the order are dining-in options at restaurants and other eateries.

“Restaurant dining rooms and other dine-in service areas such as ‘food courts’ and ‘buffets’ shall be closed to the public until the expiration of this emergency declaration, although ‘pick up’ and ‘delivery service’ may remain open to the pubic and is encouraged until the expiration of this emergency declaration,” the proclamation reads.

Joyce has also prohibited gatherings of 50 or more people, “excepting political subdivisions and state entities over which the City of Stillwater has no control” and asks citizens to follow President Donald Trump’s guidelines to avoid gatherings of 10 or more people.

The City Council has called an emergency meeting for Wednesday to discuss COVID-19.

The City of Stillwater released a statement that core services would continue as usual, and that disconnection notices on utilities could be disregarded until Council considers an action at its March 23 meeting.

https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/update-in-emergency-proclamation-stillwater-mayor-declares-bars-restaurant-dining/article_1944c366-6883-11ea-9697-7ba4fee473f7.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/update-in-emergency-proclamation-stillwater-mayor-declares-bars-restaurant-dining/article_1944c366-6883-11ea-9697-7ba4fee473f7.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 17, 2020, 05:11:06 PM
Been hearing on local radio restaurants are still providing some driveby pickup or home delivery like pizza.
Personally, any time I see no evidence doesn't make me want to order unless its something like pizza I can nuke and make sure is safe.
Off CDC website:


Q: Can I get COVID-19 from a food worker handling my food?

A: Currently, there is no evidence of food or food packaging being associated with transmission of COVID-19. However, the virus that causes COVID-19 is spreading from person-to-person in some communities in the U.S. The CDC recommends that if you are sick, stay home until you are better and no longer pose a risk of infecting others.

Anyone handling, preparing and serving food should always follow safe food handling procedures, such as washing hands and surfaces often.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 17, 2020, 05:20:55 PM
This thread is great and all, but nobody wants to talk about weather station stuff  :-(
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 17, 2020, 06:06:05 PM
Q: Can I get COVID-19 from a food worker handling my food?
A: Currently, there is no evidence of food or food packaging being associated with transmission of COVID-19.
I may be completely overreacting, but I swore off take-out til this crap is gone, only cook my own.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 17, 2020, 07:58:03 PM
Q: Can I get COVID-19 from a food worker handling my food?
A: Currently, there is no evidence of food or food packaging being associated with transmission of COVID-19.
I may be completely overreacting, but I swore off take-out til this crap is gone, only cook my own.

Be thankful that you know how to cook. I love cooking too. Just hope that I can find all the ingredients I need. Today for St. Patrick's we made corned beef. But there was no cabbage at the store. So it was just corned beef, potatoes and carrots. No time to lament because I'm sure that there are many that aren't as fortunate. I feel bad for those that can't cook.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 17, 2020, 08:26:39 PM
Q: Can I get COVID-19 from a food worker handling my food?
A: Currently, there is no evidence of food or food packaging being associated with transmission of COVID-19.
I may be completely overreacting, but I swore off take-out til this crap is gone, only cook my own.

Be thankful that you know how to cook. I love cooking too. Just hope that I can find all the ingredients I need.
I'm certainly no Gordon Ramsey, but I almost always prepare something satisfyingly good for myself, and winging it is always an option, just like tonight. That said, I will surely miss my carne asada burrito and Chinese food from down the street. :sad:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: tweatherman on March 17, 2020, 08:27:43 PM
I am amazed at the disinformation and hoaxes that are flooding the internet. Some of my friends who have college degrees have been re-posting not only hoaxes but pure garbage science about this. It seems they don't see the red flags in some of these supposed preventions/cures that scream hoax. I feel like sending them an email telling them that they have won the lottery and need to send me $5000 to collect their winnings (  :grin: ). When a posting says..."send to all your friends/contacts" it is a hoax. Here are some real loo-loos....
1) Get a blow dryer, set it on low and breath in the warm air to kill the virus in your sinuses.
2) Turn off your cell phone or disable 5G because the virus started in China right after they deployed 5G
3) Drink only distilled water because it will kill the virus (no it just drains minerals from the body - reverse osmosis)
4) The government is letting this virus get out of control while they break encryption/passwords/security so they can monitor your emails and internet activity
5) Taking a colloidal silver solution will kill the virus in 48 hours (Jim Bakker - former PTL minister and prison inmate - his new survivalist ministry - Morningside is just 10 miles down the road from me)
6) Oil of oregano prevents the disease...(some garlic, tomato sauce, and a few other ingredients and you have Marinara sauce)
7) Wearing a mask such as the ones you wear when drywalling or sanding that you can buy at a hardware store will protect you
8)  The virus was released to discredit Trump before an election
9) Warm weather, a  hot bath or shower or sitting in a sauna will kill the virus
10) China/Taliban/Dr. Evil released the virus to bring the US to its knees prior to a nuclear attack (Nooooklear Weapons - Chekov in Star Trek)
11) The government is using it to invoke Marshall Law ( notice that it is the wrong one...should be Martial Law) to gain control of the country

I am reminded of the State Farm commercial where a lady proclaims ..."it must be true...I saw it on the internet".
Just remember the immortal words of Franklin Delano Roosevelt..."we have nothing to fear...but fear itself"

I second this.

tweatherman
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: wxthomson on March 17, 2020, 08:46:27 PM
Looks like all sporting events are canceled now
I'm already jonesing, and I'm sure I'm not alone and we've just started. MLB just stated they won't even attempt to start play til mid-May. Frankly, I'm even dubious about that. Maybe sports will resume initially without fans in attendance...

I'm starting to realize how dull my life  has become without sports to follow!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on March 17, 2020, 10:07:34 PM
I'm starting to realize how dull my life  has become without sports to follow!

The loss of the NCAA basketball playoffs is particularly hard to take for me. But it was the right decision.

Regarding weather stuff, all my equipment is working fine, even the NWS API is behaving itself. At a point where I could use a project, nothing is breaking.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 17, 2020, 10:58:57 PM
@Jasiu ..
Quote
At a point where I could use a project, nothing is breaking.
Too many years ago the beteljuice produced a script for crop spraying conditions.

Now with a little tweak here and there ????????????
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 17, 2020, 11:20:29 PM
I'm sorry my favorite bar has to shut down:

With the announcement Tuesday that shut down many more Stillwater venues, including bars and lounges, and restrictions for restaurants, the impact of the declaration was felt around town.

Chris Ward, owner of Finnegan’s Pub in downtown Stillwater, said he had been expecting something like this was coming to Stillwater.

But now that the reality has hit, Ward said he and his staff will fill out unemployment paperwork this week because none of them have ever done so before.

He said he has been thinking about remodeling the bar, and with the sudden closure, that might be a possibility. He said he could try to hire some of his staff on an hourly basis to work on renovations in order to help them have a paycheck.

Finnegan’s will also be hit by the fact that with the Mid South gravel bike race had a lesser turnout than usual, as well as fewer people being out for St. Patrick’s Day.

Ward said there are going to be many kegs of beer that will likely not be sold, as it will expire in about two to three months.

Kaeley Goodwin, manager of Willie’s Saloon and The 19th Hole, also expected something could occur soon, especially after Norman city officials announced Monday that its bars would shut down.

“We were trying to prepare for it and we were hoping that it would be toward the end of the week and we would have a couple more days left because we work off tips and hourly wages,” Goodwin said. “We are hoping to have money saved up. It is just going to be hard. We are praying they have some sort of assistance for people that can’t work right now. It is not like our building burnt down or we got fired. The government shut us down.”

More at:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/latest-decree-rocks-local-bars-restaurants/article_12cedd7c-85c7-5ba2-9b02-0ad7da44b2b5.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/latest-decree-rocks-local-bars-restaurants/article_12cedd7c-85c7-5ba2-9b02-0ad7da44b2b5.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 17, 2020, 11:53:54 PM
It is a little unsettling to hear this quote from this restaurant manager, "It is not like our building burnt down or we got fired. The government shut us down." It is just wrong to put it that way because it makes it as if the fault is that of the government that shut them down. Funny they say that it isn't as if the building burned down or they got fired....well it is like that...there is a friggin' deadly virus pandemic and we need to all do our part to save as many of our fellow elderly and at risk individuals with compromised immune systems.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 18, 2020, 02:47:28 AM
Agreed, we may have as many as 85% that catch the virus asymptomatic or show very little sign so lets put the blame where it belongs and not with the government on this for trying to save lives, anyone doing this is despicable.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 18, 2020, 03:55:15 AM
one worrying thing is that flattening the curve (which needs to happen) means its all here for longer

i.e 6 months
ie so the peak is 3 months away (2 months for Europe)
so the question is then how long is the now extreme social distancing to last..does it not start to ease until after  the peak...and then only gradually...so as to not cause a second wave peak?
(or maybe the solution is to have just manageable small wave peaks instead of one big peak)
if so , then everyone will have to get used to the new world we now are living in , for the next 3 months at least  :shock:

(do nothing and the pandemic runs rampant, peaks, then ease right back in only 2 months....but that would be like a  zombie Apocalypse...millions dead and hospitals over flowing onto the streets and nothing operating because everyone is sick at once)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 18, 2020, 04:58:06 AM
Very worrisome for sure, our best hope is it goes away like many coronaviruses after a 3-month life cycle.  I'm really concerned about a real depression with everything being shutdown. This is by far the most serious thing our nation and world have faced in my life other than the Cuban Missile Crisis where we were on the brink of nuclear war.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 18, 2020, 07:42:10 AM
For comparison I suggest studying the Spanish Flu of 1918 during World War I. This example shows two cities that acted totall different. In Philadelphia they peaked early as there was a late order to social distancing and lockdown, but they got over it quicker at a cost. In St. Louis they took it serous early and the lockdown order was put in place early. You can see how the results cause Philadelphia to suffer way more and lost more lives and stressed the heathcare system. In St. Louis the curve was flattened. But as you said toward the end people run out of patience and the curve peeked a little like a second mini wave or small peak.

https://qz.com/1816060/a-chart-of-the-1918-spanish-flu-shows-why-social-distancing-works/

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on March 18, 2020, 07:50:38 AM
A few days ago I became interested in what % of the population needs to be immune to provide herd immunity - the point at which we break the chain of transmission and can get back to "normal" interaction.

It can't be nailed down because the numbers are all estimates at this point, but it looks like somewhere between half and two-thirds of the population needs to be immune (more than flu; much less than measles). If we are successful in flattening the curve, that will take quite some time to occur through contraction and recovery (it obviously means that many people have to get it).  It may not happen until we get a vaccine.

So it's looking like social interaction may return in baby steps and "normal" is a long way off.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 18, 2020, 03:30:02 PM
Interesting how different this flu virus is being treated.  Several years ago a professor died of the flu at home.  But the mayor didn't shut down anything in town in response.  No doubt the main thing different about COVID-19 virus is that it is killing a significantly higher percentage of people than other flus.  And probably making a higher percentage of people seriously ill, too, while being more contagious.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 18, 2020, 03:39:06 PM
we are on e-learning prep this week and spring break next week.

If the e-learning is going to be extended-I may end my leave and do e-learning at home.
There is a possibility that this could last for 8 weeks. That is almost the end of the year.
We shall see.

I have had 2 teachers email and beg me to come back.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 18, 2020, 04:01:55 PM
2978 Dead now in Italy from this virus (in only a 3 weeks or so)
and its still spreading exponentially there despite being in lock down for a week
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on March 19, 2020, 12:56:25 AM
It is kids like this going to spread the virus and they don't give a rats ass either.
https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1240371160078000128 (https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1240371160078000128)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 19, 2020, 01:52:02 AM
It is kids like this going to spread the virus and they don't give a rats ass either.
True, no excuses now, but that's because they're dumb-ass, "invincible" kids. Hopefully some sense will reign. The fault is with the "adults" on the other side of the globe.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 19, 2020, 04:38:09 AM
Some disturbing reports out of Italy are large numbers of millennials are landing in the ICU's.  The thinking of why not many in that age group from China were infected or died is unlike here and Italy they heeded the warnings and curfews.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 19, 2020, 06:07:41 AM
Here is a simple webpage shows world wide. Noticed Italy had highest number of deaths even exceeding previous days of around 350 spiked to 475 yesterday.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]



Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 19, 2020, 07:20:06 AM
NYC's local CBS TV news is again being anchored and produced out of the Los Angeles station's newsroom, as the NYC studio building is closed again.  They have added a new twist, having the two NYC anchors standing 6' apart on the sidewalk outside the closed building entrance every half hour giving the local COVID-19 stats, thanking the LA folks for helping them out, and then handing off to LA.

On yesterday evening's broadcast, the LA anchor apparently met NYC's meteorologist John Elliott for the first time.  He is occasionally featured on the morning network news, and the best way to describe him is calling him ball lightning because he is so full of energy in front of a camera.  On one toss-back, the LA anchor commented that the guys in the control room said that he's "lit" even during the times they're waiting to go to him live.....
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 19, 2020, 10:15:32 AM
took a second dose of anxiety medicine today.

We have a lot of food. As long as essential services keep going (gas, elec, water, internet) we will be ok for a while.

Will not go to the store unless we have a long list of needed items.

It is interesting to watch the news here use multiple screens to do the news. Like the Brady Bunch boxes.  dont know how they do the control room.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 19, 2020, 10:44:07 AM
It is interesting to watch the news here use multiple screens to do the news. Like the Brady Bunch boxes.  dont know how they do the control room.

In bunny suits?  :grin:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on March 19, 2020, 01:12:31 PM
Remember if you run out of tp go to cvs and buy some gum.  Take a paper receipt
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 19, 2020, 01:37:54 PM
Oklahoma has 44 cases with the first death from Tulsa County.  He was in 50s.  No recent travel experience, so community caused.  He was a grounds maintenance employee for Oral Robert University.  He died the day after tested positive.

Stillwater Medical Center has put out a call to local seamstress in the Stillwater community to begin sewing them 4 layer cloth masks and drop them off at the Stillwater hospital so they can wash and reuse them.

Walmart further restricting hours from 7:00 AM to 8:30 PM.

How Stillwater barbers are coping:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/barbers-face-financial-crunch-during-covid--pandemic/article_796d24c0-05b9-5064-9874-3d058020d514.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/barbers-face-financial-crunch-during-covid--pandemic/article_796d24c0-05b9-5064-9874-3d058020d514.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 19, 2020, 01:43:54 PM
(https://images.hvtraffic.com/images/2020/03/19/20200319174214-3ad23818.jpg)


.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 19, 2020, 04:54:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pZ7gBnM.png)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 19, 2020, 05:32:26 PM
keep the humour coming
we are all going to need it
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on March 19, 2020, 05:43:30 PM
(https://images.hvtraffic.com/images/2020/03/19/20200319174214-3ad23818.jpg)


.
Now it all makes sense.
 #-o
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 19, 2020, 05:51:45 PM
social distancing pickup lines

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SocialDistancingPickUpLines&src=typeahead_click&f=live
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on March 19, 2020, 07:27:48 PM
how about a nice cake...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 19, 2020, 07:31:20 PM
Feel free to get your vintage Queen garb out.....  #-o

Coronavirus Rhapsody:
by: Dana Jay Bein (#DJB) @danajaybein

Is this a sore throat?
Is this just allergies?
Caught in a lockdown
No escape from reality.
Don’t touch your eyes
Just hand sanitize quicklyyyyy
I’m just a poor boy, no job security
Because of easy spread, even though
washed your hands, laying low
I look out the window, the curve doesn’t look flatter to me, to me

mama, just killed a man
i didn’t stay inside in bed
I walked by him, now he’s dead
mama, life was so much fun
but now I’ve caught this unforgiving plague

mama, oooooh
didn’t mean to make them die
if I’m not back to work this time tomorrow
carry on, carry on as if people didn’t matter

oo late, my time has come
sends shivers down my spine
body’s aching all the time
goodbye everybody, I’ve got the flu
gotta leave you all behind and face the truth
Dana Jay Bein (#DJB)

mama, oooooh
I don’t wanna die
I sometimes wish I never went out at all

I see a little silhouette of a man
what a douche, what a douche
did he even wash his hands though
security is tightening
very very frightening me
Gotta lay low (gotta lay low)
Gotta lay low (gotta lay low)
Gotta lay low masturbate
Masturbate O O O O

I’m just a poor boy, facing mortality
HE’S JUST A POOR BOY FACING MORTALITY
spare him his life from this monstrosity

Touch your face, wash your hands, will you wash your hands?
BISMILLAH NO WE WILL NOT WASH OUR HANDS! (WASH YOUR HANDS!)
BISMILLAH NO WE WILL NOT WASH OUR HANDS! (WASH YOUR HANDS)

BISMILLAH WE WILL NOT WASH YOUR HANDS! (WASH YOUR HANDS!)
WASH YOUR HANDS! (never, never, never wash your hands oh oh oh oh oh oh oh)
No no no no no
Oh mama mia, mia (mama mia wash your hands!)
COVID-19 has a sickness put aside for me, for me

So you think you can stop me and just shake my hand?
So you think we can hang out and not break our plans?
Oh baby, can’t do this with me, baby,
Just gotta stay home, just gotta stay home with my fever

oooooh

Curving can get flatter
Anyone can see
Curving can get flatter
Curving can get flatter, you’ll see

Just look out your windows….

FLATTEN THE CURVE
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 19, 2020, 07:55:02 PM
Worried your stash of TP will run out?

https://howmuchtoiletpaper.com/

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 19, 2020, 07:57:16 PM
Night at the Opera was one of the very first records (yeah, that vinyl stuff...) I ever bought in 1976. I still have it, and a remaster, which basically sucks, as most digital remasters on vinyl do (God bless analog). Not sure whether you've wrecked that for me or not...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 19, 2020, 08:03:01 PM
Meanwhile back ....

... and still a bit of dark humour ...

The UK government has started TV 'info' ads that seem to have the same producers as those in the Second World War.

On a brighter note ...
Apparently NY has cleaner air than it has done for years.

So if you remove mankind from the planetary equation, Earth would be a nice place to visit !
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 19, 2020, 08:11:30 PM
So if you remove mankind from the planetary equation,
Immediately after 9/11, atmospheric scientists here got to study the sky without any contrails.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 19, 2020, 10:34:30 PM
Stillwater Regional Hospital gets first patient:

Stillwater Medical received a positive test of COVID-19 for a patient currently in the care of their facility. The results were received earlier today and the proper precautions have been made to keep our healthcare workers and other patients as safe as possible.

Infection Control teams at Stillwater Medical are using best practices and tracking technology to help ensure that COVID-19 does not spread to other patients, healthcare employees or the community. This includes having protective barriers and isolation areas to protect staff and others from exposures.

CEO, Denise Webber said that they are treating this development as an emergent situation and are working with an internal team of leaders, physicians and infection prevention specialists and many more who are planning, creating protocols and new work flows for COVID-19.

As a response to this case, Stillwater Medical has established new visitor policy guidelines that will further restrict visitation to the 3rd floor and ICU. The new policy will be in place until the transmission of the novel coronavirus, COVID-19, is no longer perceived as a threat to patients, staff and community. The decision to not allow visitors was made with careful consideration.

"This is a difficult decision to make, but it is critically important that we do all we can to keep our patients and healthcare workers safe during this outbreak,” said Webber.

Exceptions include:
• Patients who are at the end-of-life or other extenuating circumstances may have be allowed visitors
• Minors under age 18 may have one parent or guardian.
Those who have been granted exceptions must leave the hospital as soon as they leave the patient’s room and may be asked to wear a mask while in the facility.

"Infection control is always paramount in the protection of our patients, visitors and staff," said Webber. "The best way to protect yourself from transmission of the virus is to practice social distancing and by washing your hands often, avoiding close contact with others, staying home if sick, covering coughs and sneezes and cleaning and disinfecting frequently touched surfaces daily.”

Webber emphasized that the due to a state shortage of testing supplies, Stillwater Medical is required to only test those who meet strict criteria which includes those with a fever and symptoms of acute respiratory illness, hospitalized patients with signs and symptoms, others with chronic conditions and/or immunocompromised, or any person, including healthcare personnel, who had close contact with a confirmed COVID-19 patient.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Garth Bock on March 19, 2020, 11:59:21 PM
When this is all over Hollywood will probably make a movie reboot of an old film but with a new title....

The Year The Earth Stood Still
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on March 20, 2020, 12:12:07 AM
The rest of California has joined the SF Bay Area 9 counties in doing a shelter-in-place by Gov. Newsom's order tonight.
Good.  We started the shelter-in-place on 17-Mar-2020 with order applying through April 7th.  The State order currently has no expiration date as we await increased testing and see new cases diminish.

My wife and I are fine so far -- we're both in the senior high-risk category.  Visiting the grandkids/kids via Facetime and not in person.  Grocery run every few days is the only outing for now.  Stay healthy out there.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 20, 2020, 09:15:51 AM
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCe5PaeAeew[/youtube]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 20, 2020, 11:46:04 AM
The governor of Oklahoma is still letting cities decide for themselves if a shutdown of anything is warrented, so you have this statement coming from Ponca City, even though 2 cases have been reported in their county:

"The City of Stillwater made the announcement on Tuesday that all bars, restaurants and fitness facilities would be closed until further notice.
Ponca City Mayor Homer Nicholson said he would not do the same in Ponca City. “We are not going to do that at this time,” he said. “My belief is that Stillwater did this due to the fact that they are a college city with thousands of students that frequent restaurants and bars.”

“I continue to urge the public to be cautious, wash your hands, keep your distance and our plan in Ponca City is to maintain business as usual and try to maintain a comfort level so that no pandemonium happens.”

“We will not do what the City of Stillwater has done unless there is a reason to do so here in Ponca City.”
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on March 20, 2020, 12:12:04 PM
forgive me for not knowing but what is the distance between stillwater and ponca ? so real possible scenario ponca is open lets go there .. dangerous scenario is when you leave your back door open there are those that will walk through it because it is open.. brian
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 20, 2020, 01:36:05 PM
Governor No-No has just ordered the State of NY to prohibit employers from having ANY employees working away from home, except in critical jobs that are spelled out.  He had WFH at 50% two days ago, raised it to 75% yesterday, and now it is 100% WFH or else.

I was out a little while ago running a critical errand, and some idiot came in the door where I was and crowded up less than a foot behind me in line.  I made a violent step sideways, to give him the hint.  About 30 seconds later, he invaded my social distancing bubble a second time and I stepped back violently again to give him another hint.  Maybe I should have coughed in his direction without covering my mouth to deliver the hint?????  :twisted:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 20, 2020, 02:39:01 PM
Italy now over 4000 dead and 620 in one day and now military deployed to enforce lock down as China told them their lock down is not strict enough
don't end up like Italy...take it seriously now before its too late
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 20, 2020, 03:01:32 PM
Most doubted the numbers coming out of China were real because reports from eyewitnesses were 10's of thousands had actually died. Funeral homes around Wuhan alone were handling 2-3,000 bodies a day during the peak and there were 13 different funeral homes in the city.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 20, 2020, 03:14:22 PM
forgive me for not knowing but what is the distance between stillwater and ponca ? so real possible scenario ponca is open lets go there .. dangerous scenario is when you leave your back door open there are those that will walk through it because it is open.. brian

40 miles.  Doubt that distance manners much, since drive up and curbside food service still allowed in Stillwater.   The only casino in the county, 10 miles away, closed since March 18.  I don't believe all casinos in Oklahoma have chosen to close.  Rumor has it the governor may decide to go with what some state cities are doing and order a statewide shutdown.

Stillwater Regional Hospital has released info that its COVID-19 patient is a resident of Kay County, has no connection to OSU or public school systems, was exposed by family members who had traveled out of state and that the patient is in good condition.   Ponca City is the biggest town in Kay County.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 20, 2020, 03:26:01 PM
Most doubted the numbers coming out of China were real because reports from eyewitnesses were 10's of thousands had actually died. Funeral homes around Wuhan alone were handling 2-3,000 bodies a day during the peak and there were 13 different funeral homes in the city.

COVID-19 Patient No. 1 in the USA had recently returned from visiting family in Wuhan.  News of this was released on January 21.  He is in Washington state, one of the hardest hit states.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 20, 2020, 05:31:32 PM
UK government has stated from tomorrow all pubs, bars, clubs, theatres, cinemas, gyms etc. etc. to close indefinitely - upto a year !

This directly effects the livelihood  of at least 18 million, mostly self employed and / or with leases.
Quite apart from the supply chain and any affect on morale.

the beteljuice suggests regardless of mortality rate, three months and "Vive La Revolution !"
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 20, 2020, 11:07:40 PM
from what I am seeing in a lot of countries is people are not taking it seriously enough
and thinking it won't happen to us
that is what Italy thought

with up to a 5 day incubation period and people able to spread it before they show symptoms, once its spreading in the community invisibly and silently
then you are going to see exponential growth in cases and deaths
which means in 3 weeks you have a collapse on your health system
all because people did not do their bit re social distancing etc early enough and when told to do so
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 20, 2020, 11:36:30 PM
Latest in an email from a supermarket ...
Quote
And we would prefer you to pay with card rather than cash at our tills.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on March 21, 2020, 07:02:42 AM
the psychological part of this keep your distance.. here in turkey we dont drink tap water for the fear of stomach sickness if we do we boil it first sometimes twice.. however we always every two weeks order and have delivered fresh drinking water 2 x 20l containers.today our regular delivery guy turned up there was a moment my wife ,myself and he hesitated , someone we have come to know over the years he is a friendly guy ,it was uncomfortable and a little reminder of things to come . it wasn’t hesitant because of dislike or being unclean it was the psychological feeling of trying to adapt todo whats best for all.. even exchanging the money hands were hesitant... :-(
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 21, 2020, 12:42:48 PM
We have home delivery not sure how many are actually using it, nobody comes in the house all deliveries are left at front porch. Also, we wash hands or use disinfectant after touching anything including the mail along with any packaging with disinfectant wipes.
Luckily we have 2 stores that deliver groceries now and even one of the liquor stores is home delivering alcoholic beverages.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 21, 2020, 05:16:10 PM
How long before deliveries stop ?

Just had an email from one of UK top utility providers - "Don't call for an engineer unless it's an emergency"

Of course the email also contained lots of information on how you could still pay them whilst in isolation / shutdown !
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 21, 2020, 07:46:17 PM
Not much evidence of clear skies in the US at the moment !

https://www.radarbox24.com/@29.65049,-57.64771,z3

https://www.radarbox24.com/coronavirus
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 21, 2020, 07:55:57 PM
Not much evidence of clear skies in the US at the moment !
As long as we keep our air-traffic controllers, as we state in the profession, "on the boards".

https://www.foxnews.com/us/faa-brief-departure-suspend-air-traffic-control
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 21, 2020, 08:04:48 PM
Numbers out of Italy keep going up almost 800 deaths today so far.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 22, 2020, 07:46:58 AM
UK - West Midlands

email received with less 24hr notice ..
Quote
Travel Advice

From next week you will still be able to get to where you need to go but you may need to change the time you normally travel.

    * The frequency of train services across the UK will reduce from Monday 23 March.

    * Most bus operators including National Express West Midlands (NXWM) will be reducing the frequency of bus services from Wednesday 25 March. No NXWM routes will be stopped at this stage, just made less frequent. The usual first, last and night services will remain in operation.

... and so on

It is already wearing a bit thin of edicts with very little notice.
Of course urgency of action is appreciated, but it is impossible to plan any travel or shopping or ...

It is a little alarming just what measures are being taken that didn't occur even in the blitz.
At the moment it is with the consensus of the people, but as time passes ???
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 22, 2020, 10:15:27 AM
Maybe if everyone heard the real death toll out of China it would convince more people to stay home. My best friend and wife were there with family during the Lunar year outbreak of February. They were stuck 2 weeks trying to get a flight out of Changsha.

They use an app called WeeChat and communicate between each other the estimates out of Wuhan alone was 20k a day dead and this may have gone on for months. The numbers communist China published are a joke. You can see that now with Italy surpassing China in deaths. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on March 22, 2020, 10:50:39 AM
Maybe if everyone heard the real death toll out of China it would convince more people to stay home. My best friend and wife were there with family during the Lunar year outbreak of February. They were stuck 2 weeks trying to get a flight out of Changsha.

They use an app called WeeChat and communicate between each other the estimates out of Wuhan alone was 20k a day dead and this may have gone on for months. The numbers communist China published are a joke. You can see that now with Italy surpassing China in deaths.
I know why these communist regimes are so tight lipped about disasters in their countries. It's because they don't want their people to know what is happening. The more they stay in the dark the more they control them. But how do you continually let people die just to keep the status quo?? Russia did the same thing with Chernobyl.  Just a sad commentary on the importance of peoples lives in these places. :-(
The numbers coming out of Italy are quite disturbing. Beginning to think shutting down all but essential services nationally is the way to go. Civil unrest could be a huge problem and the National Guard and the Army would most likely have to be deployed. I know that's radical but what other choice is there.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 22, 2020, 11:15:06 AM
Our Government knows the deaths were much higher. They also had inside contacts and is most likely why they have taken these extraordinary steps.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 22, 2020, 11:19:09 AM
The fact they are trying to get 100's of thousands of additional ventilators should tell us all something.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 22, 2020, 11:39:33 AM
It just feels like a sci-fi movie. I can't believe this is happening. Every day I wake up thinking, "that was a bad dream," only to realize it isn't a bad dream, it is reality. It just seems so incredulous. If you had told me before all this went down that this could happen, I wouldn't believe you and I'd think you were some sort of conspiracy theorist.

This is a 9/11 moment in history. We will never be the same. We will get over it but many lessons have been learned. I think we will become less reliant on China. I think the handshake will go away forever. I never liked it anyway and I started fist bumping a few years ago, but now not even fist bumping is acceptable. I guess the elbow bump might be the thing, but we will have to see.

The FDA I suspect might implement changes to restaurants before they reopen, cleaning of tables, how silverware and plates are handled, self serve plastic utensil dispensers will go away (gross). Having a diverse investment portfolio might take on a different meaning (indispensable industry). Social distancing might remain a thing when waiting in line, waiting room seat placement, restaurant table proximity, and airplane seats cramped in like sardines and shared arm rests (that never made sense to me), other public transportation changes (busses). Will cruise ships ever recover as they already have a stigma of being Petri dishes?

So so so much more. How about dating? That first kiss is going to be so much harder to get, you'll feel like you scored just to hold hands. Well maybe not dating as the younger generation is not taking this seriously.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 22, 2020, 01:05:50 PM
Starting to hear more talk of this being a manufactured biological weapon because it doesn't act like a normal virus.

Sheds rapidly without symtoms so spreads undetected:  Normal virus shows symptoms during shedding you have cough, congestion and other flu symptoms while shedding. (spreads)

Attacks those with the most mature immune system those with many years of built-up immunities and leaves those without many immunities alone. : Normal virus attacks those with the least immunities like the young or those very old with compromised immune systems.  I can attest to this I never get a flu shot and never catch the flu or cold anymore because I've had most versions of the strains going around.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on March 22, 2020, 01:09:45 PM
Our Government knows the deaths were much higher. They also had inside contacts and is most likely why they have taken these extraordinary steps.
That inside info and these senators and members of congress selling stock is pure BS!
Doesn't matter what side of the aisle, they all need to go.
Even in the face of a crisis greed is still king.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 22, 2020, 01:21:29 PM
Beginning to think shutting down all but essential services nationally is the way to go. Civil unrest could be a huge problem and the National Guard and the Army would most likely have to be deployed. I know that's radical but what other choice is there.

Have you looked at NY State recently?  100% of non-essential businesses forced to WFH or close, National Guard deployed to testing sites and hospitals, Navy hospital ship inbound, Governor asking feds to have the Army Corps of Engineers build four temporary field hospitals, and also asking FEMA to deploy *four* of their 250-patient field hospitals into the huge trade show floor at the Javitz Convention Center.  Coming soon to a state near you.....
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 22, 2020, 01:30:15 PM
 Actual patient the hell he went through to survive.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/-E3zAozkA0Q[/youtube]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on March 22, 2020, 01:30:43 PM
Starting to hear more talk of this being a manufactured biological weapon because it doesn't act like a normal virus.

Sorry, this just BS. There is a wide spectrum of virus behaviour and COVID isn't anything out of the normal range of characteristics. It's somewhat more contagious than the regular influenza virus hence the rapid spread (R0 - the measure of how many others will be infected by one patient - estimated at 2-4, cf flu 1.5, but polio = 5-7 and measles, one of the most contagious diseases known, is 12-18!) and its ACE2 receptor unfortunately happens to be be strongly expressed in the ciliated epithelial cells of the lung - obviously a vital organ, which doesn't take well to being targeted and compromised. If anything, once it's eventually triggered, the body's inflammatory response is sometimes too strong in the elderly (look up 'cytokine storm'). Because this particular coronavirus has only just jumped species from the bat (where it was fairly well known) there is no existing immunity in humans. Best hope right now is that the Gilead antiviral remdesivir will slow the disease enough in vulnerable patients to allow life-saving treatment (but IMO it will need to be given early in the course of the infection - it can't be of much benefit once the lungs have been seriously damaged). Other comments on drug therapy like chloroquine or HIV therapies targeted at the retroviral protease are largely also BS right now - the COVID protease is in a quite different class of proteases. And evidence on chloroquine is pretty weak as yet - it's an odd drug and seems to have all sorts of weak effects on a range of diseases, but I really wouldn't bet the house on it. Remdesivir is the only compound right now known to have relevant anti-coronaviral activity. (In a previous life, just in case you're wondering, drug discovery/development used to be my day job.)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 22, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
Starting to hear more talk of this being a manufactured biological weapon because it doesn't act like a normal virus.

Sorry, this just BS. There is a wide spectrum of virus behaviour and COVID isn't anything out of the normal range of characteristics.

Like I said its just talk and could be as you said BS. Sure the truth will come out either way still very curious how it attacks those healthy with mature immune symptoms.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on March 22, 2020, 02:02:02 PM
I guess the elbow bump might be the thing, but we will have to see.

Does it seems a little odd we're being told to cough into our elbows, and then do elbow bumps?  :?

I guess we could make it a habit to cough into our left elbow and bump with our right, just make sure the person you're greeting knows that.

But then it doesn't matter if we're to keep six feet apart, unless you have really long forearms.

Maybe if we carry ten foot poles to greet each other with?  Then they could be used to deter guys like this:
I was out a little while ago running a critical errand, and some idiot came in the door where I was and crowded up less than a foot behind me in line.  I made a violent step sideways, to give him the hint.  About 30 seconds later, he invaded my social distancing bubble a second time and I stepped back violently again to give him another hint.  Maybe I should have coughed in his direction without covering my mouth to deliver the hint?????  :twisted:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on March 22, 2020, 02:57:15 PM
Or, how about just nods of the heads acknowledging, if needed, each other's presence.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on March 22, 2020, 03:00:04 PM
It's somewhat more contagious than the regular influenza virus hence the rapid spread and its ACE2 receptor unfortunately happens to be be strongly expressed in the ciliated epithelial cells of the lung - obviously a vital organ, which doesn't take well to being targeted and compromised. If anything, once it's eventually triggered, the body's inflammatory response is sometimes too strong in the elderly (look up 'cytokine storm'). Because this particular coronavirus has only just jumped species from the bat (where it was fairly well known) there is no existing immunity in humans. Best hope right now is that the Gilead antiviral remdesivir will slow the disease enough in vulnerable patients to allow life-saving treatment. Other comments on drug therapy like chloroquine or HIV therapies targeted at the retroviral protease are largely also BS right now - the COVID protease is in a quite different class of proteases. Remdesivir is the only compound right now known to have relevant anti-coronaviral activity. (In a previous life, just in case you're wondering, drug discovery/development used to be my day job.)
I was reading about cytokine storms the other day...seems like that is a good trail to follow for some of the researchers.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Garth Bock on March 22, 2020, 03:23:33 PM
johnd - Excellent succinct review of good facts  =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

On the lighter side.....I keep thinking about the Mash episode where Hoolihan keeps ragging Hawkeye during surgery "...you touched your nose....I clearly saw you touch your nose...."

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 22, 2020, 04:32:31 PM
cytokine storm was what happened with the Spanish flu pandemic (patient zero was from Kansas seemingly for that virus, was only called the spanish flu because spain's news was not suppressed  as it was neautral in the war and so it was heard about more what was going on there and so it got to be called the spanish flu)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 22, 2020, 05:15:36 PM
It's just so damned depressing. All you see on TV 24/7 is this crap, no sports that you haven't already seen, can't really go anywhere, can't go visit friends, wondering when not if I'll get it and how I'll handle it along with friends and relatives as well, how long ALL of this will go on....No wonder I stay in bed til whenever.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on March 22, 2020, 05:27:27 PM
It's just so damned depressing. All you see on TV 24/7 is this crap, no sports that you haven't already seen, can't really go anywhere, can't go visit friends, wondering when not if I'll get it and how I'll handle it along with friends and relatives as well, how long ALL of this will go on....No wonder I stay in bed til whenever.
Have a cure for your ills my friend. A ten hour video of watching grass grow.
Turn up the sound and enjoy. :lol:
https://youtu.be/kiXY7ynw6ek

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on March 22, 2020, 05:31:37 PM
It's just so damned depressing. All you see on TV 24/7 is this crap, no sports that you haven't already seen, can't really go anywhere, can't go visit friends, wondering when not if I'll get it and how I'll handle it along with friends and relatives as well, how long ALL of this will go on....No wonder I stay in bed til whenever.
Seriously though if you have a firestick, jailbreak that puppy and start watching just about anything you want.
Been watching some Cheers, Barny Miller, Honemooners, Northern Exposure etc.
Great way to pass the time. Can only hang on the internet for so long.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 22, 2020, 05:34:12 PM
It's just so damned depressing. All you see on TV 24/7 is this crap, no sports that you haven't already seen, can't really go anywhere, can't go visit friends, wondering when not if I'll get it and how I'll handle it along with friends and relatives as well, how long ALL of this will go on....No wonder I stay in bed til whenever.
Have a cure for your ills my friend. A ten hour video of watching grass grow.
Turn up the sound and enjoy. :lol:
https://youtu.be/kiXY7ynw6ek
You're a lifesaver!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 22, 2020, 05:36:07 PM
It's just so damned depressing. All you see on TV 24/7 is this crap, no sports that you haven't already seen, can't really go anywhere, can't go visit friends, wondering when not if I'll get it and how I'll handle it along with friends and relatives as well, how long ALL of this will go on....No wonder I stay in bed til whenever.
Seriously though if you have a firestick, jailbreak that puppy and start watching just about anything you want.
Been watching some Cheers, Barny Miller, Honemooners, Northern Exposure etc.
Great way to pass the time. Can only hang on the internet for so long.
Oh, I've got plenty to watch on the tube, problem is I'm sick of that already too. March on...that's all any of us can do.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 22, 2020, 05:37:16 PM
My kid is at NDSU. Home for Spring Break last week.
She is going online for the semester. Crushed her.
She is also going to teach her dance class from the basement. So I built a ballet barre and put down plywood for her to tap on.

Applying to other teaching jobs.


Watching a lot of TV. good and bad idea.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on March 22, 2020, 05:58:23 PM
My kid is at NDSU. Home for Spring Break last week.
She is going online for the semester. Crushed her.
She is also going to teach her dance class from the basement. So I built a ballet barre and put down plywood for her to tap on.

Applying to other teaching jobs.


Watching a lot of TV. good and bad idea.
Hey Dave you watching reruns of the Super Bowl?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 22, 2020, 06:27:58 PM
4 times this week. [tup]

Have this in my house
(https://fanatics.frgimages.com/FFImage/thumb.aspx?i=/productimages/_3812000/altimages/ff_3812201-0e0f1697e4bef8522abaalt1_full.jpg&w=900[img])[/img]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 22, 2020, 07:51:18 PM
Inevitable but DESPICABLE !

Just had an email pretending to be from W.H.O. asking for bitcoin donations !
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 22, 2020, 10:54:36 PM
It's just so damned depressing. All you see on TV 24/7 is this crap, no sports that you haven't already seen, can't really go anywhere, can't go visit friends, wondering when not if I'll get it and how I'll handle it along with friends and relatives as well, how long ALL of this will go on....No wonder I stay in bed til whenever.

Brahm's ice cream store is still open here, so I went there to get some stuff, including, of course, some comfort food--ice cream.   Their seated dining area is closed, though.   If I want to go for a walk around the lake, I'm going to.  We're not that heavily restricted.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 22, 2020, 11:06:12 PM
It's just so damned depressing. All you see on TV 24/7 is this crap, no sports that you haven't already seen, can't really go anywhere, can't go visit friends, wondering when not if I'll get it and how I'll handle it along with friends and relatives as well, how long ALL of this will go on....No wonder I stay in bed til whenever.

Brahm's ice cream store is still open here, so I went there to get some stuff, including, of course, some comfort food--ice cream.   
Ice cream is unequivocally my kryptonite. If I started down that path, for that matter, don't even know if the stores have any, I'd weigh 800 lbs by the time this is over.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 22, 2020, 11:27:54 PM
There is plenty of ice cream at the grocery stores. People don't have room for ice cream when they are trying to pack their freezer with more important things like frozen pizza, hot dogs, beef and poultry.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Waimarie on March 23, 2020, 12:41:42 AM
New Zealand calling..... We've just gone into stage 3 lockdown, Final stage 4 comes in in 48 hours.  Everything except essential services stops. (for about 4 weeks at the moment)  Just arranged to go to grocery and prescription home delivery, so don't have to go out except for flu shot on Thursday and hospital blood tests in a week or so.   I used to work in health preparing for things like bird-flu pandemics which never happened, so I missed the real action.

Good luck to all who still have to work, travel or whatever.  Stay safe out there!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: BeaverMeadow on March 23, 2020, 08:48:57 AM
Latest in an email from a supermarket ...
Quote
And we would prefer you to pay with card rather than cash at our tills.

If you have to sign the c/c terminal with the pen that hangs by its side-- watch out!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 23, 2020, 09:50:03 AM
If you did not know  The Far Side cartoons are now FINALLY on the net


https://www.thefarside.com/?referrer=https://www.gocomics.com
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 23, 2020, 02:46:53 PM
I have the box set of MASH
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 23, 2020, 02:49:09 PM
Quote
Quote from: Garth Bock on Yesterday at 02:23:33 PM
johnd - Excellent succinct review of good facts  =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

On the lighter side.....I keep thinking about the Mash episode where Hoolihan keeps ragging Hawkeye during surgery "...you touched your nose....I clearly saw you touch your nose...."

Where's Hawkeye when we really need him?

I think of the episode where everyone has the flu.

The Army sends out a vaccine- Hawk tells Margaret. You know that shot you gave me for the flu? It works. I got it.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 23, 2020, 04:46:02 PM
UK - Just announced by the Prime Minister (21:30 local)

From tomorrow ...
(We go into lock down ...)

You cannot leave you home except for:
Medical reasons.
Shopping for basic necessities
Travel for essential work.

Non-essential shops to close.
No more than two people together in public unless same household.
Ban on ALL social events including weddings etc.

BTW. 'Travel' includes those lucky enough to to have 2nd / holiday home they think they can 'escape' to.

Suggestion is to make more use of on-line stores / delivery.
Except virtual shelves are empty and delivery 'slots' are over a week away !
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on March 23, 2020, 05:35:11 PM
I had to post this.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 23, 2020, 06:09:50 PM
the beteljuice has just returned from the local gas / convenience store.

I was the last customer under new hours regime.

Only one denomination of notes in the ATM.
No bread, No pasta, No ready meals, few tins etc. etc

I managed to buy a bag of potatoes as the youngsters have forgotten how to cook  ;)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 24, 2020, 06:40:07 AM
Rural Nebraska wasn't too bad yesterday other than food services like restaurants only having takeout. Gas stations looked busy fast food like MacDonalds also had multiple cars at the drive-thru.
Grocery stores look normal with 30-40 cars in each parking lot. 
Still, no positive cases in Cherry county which is sparsely populated most all cases are near the populated Cities Omaha, Lincoln exception North Platte 30k population has 3 cases.

The announcement here is school will start back up on March 31st. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 24, 2020, 09:01:43 AM
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DoctorKnow on March 24, 2020, 09:17:20 AM
If you are feeling like you need to do something, drink some tonic water... It has quinine in it, which is used in Cloroquine. Everything is going to be just fine... If you wipe down surfaces with the disinfecting wipes, wear gloves for handles and such, and proper masks in areas with a lot of people, there is nothing to fear but fear itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonic_water (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonic_water)
If you look at the map of infection, you can clearly see that areas known to take Cloroquine did not have but just a few deaths from the Virus.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 24, 2020, 11:02:55 AM

The announcement here is school will start back up on March 31st.

That surprises me. So soon.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 24, 2020, 12:00:49 PM

The announcement here is school will start back up on March 31st.

That surprises me. So soon.

I guess it could change but announced yesterday on local radio and posted on school signs.
Arizona has extended start-up to April 10th according to family living there. They have options for each district to decide on its own beyond that date when to reopen.

Statewide of those tested with symptoms 5% positive.

Total number of cases – 52
Cases that tested negative – 975*
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 24, 2020, 12:28:08 PM
Ah ...

The hidden powers of those that be, starting to be revealed ....

All mobile phones receiving text from UK Government on lock down measures !
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 24, 2020, 01:14:02 PM
Welp!

Shortly after 11AM today, Valentine Community Schools announced that classes would be suspended for the rest of the school year. The announcement stated that based on recommendations from NCDHD and Nebraska Department of Education, classes would be suspended. Students and staff will continue the alternative learning environment format. The situation will be monitored and adjustments will be made when possible.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on March 24, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
If you are feeling like you need to do something, drink some tonic water... It has quinine in it, which is used in Cloroquine.
..snip..
If you look at the map of infection, you can clearly see that areas known to take Cloroquine did not have but just a few deaths from the Virus.
Reminding all that anecdotal 'evidence' is not generally trustworthy.  NO ONE should self-medicate based on internet-circulated claims of  (unsubstantiated) efficacy. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 24, 2020, 01:39:20 PM
why is Trump talking about wanting americans to go back to work and scaling back solcial distancing already?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on March 24, 2020, 01:55:00 PM
why is Trump talking about wanting americans to go back to work and scaling back solcial distancing already?

$$$$$
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on March 24, 2020, 01:58:48 PM
why is Trump talking about wanting americans to go back to work and scaling back solcial distancing already?
It's almost like he wants people who are sick to get better, and those who aren't sick not to get sick, and people to be able to get back to work and lead happy productive lives, and for the economy not to be completely destroyed.  Now isn't the time for our leaders to display optimism?  :?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on March 24, 2020, 01:59:49 PM
Quote
Reminding all that anecdotal 'evidence' is not generally trustworthy.  NO ONE should self-medicate based on internet-circulated claims of  (unsubstantiated) efficacy.

In particular, read this story before you even think about self-medicating.

  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/man-dies-after-ingesting-chloroquine-in-an-attempt-to-prevent-coronavirus/ar-BB11B8qd (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/man-dies-after-ingesting-chloroquine-in-an-attempt-to-prevent-coronavirus/ar-BB11B8qd)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on March 24, 2020, 02:00:07 PM
why is Trump talking about wanting americans to go back to work and scaling back solcial distancing already?
It's complicated!  The daily White House briefings have been covering this in depth, and I don't want to paraphrase their arguments pro and con.  The press have tried repeatedly to pin the White House team down regarding a specific timetable, but they have explained ad nauseum why this isn't yet possible.  Still, a return to a semblance of normal MUST be talked about, don't you think?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on March 24, 2020, 02:06:00 PM
It's complicated!  The daily White House briefings have been covering this in depth, and I don't want to paraphrase their arguments pro and con.  The press have tried repeatedly to pin the White House team down regarding a specific timetable, but they have explained ad nauseum why this isn't yet possible.  Still, a return to a semblance of normal MUST be talked about, don't you think?

The problem is that it's putting the cart before the horse. Or kinda like trying to have a baby in less than 9 months. If distancing measures are relaxed as early as a week from now (as mentioned yesterday), we are going to see both an epidemic and an economic meltdown. The economy can't function with so many sick and dying and with hospitals full (and if you think people are avoiding the public now...).

The best way to get back to normal is manage the current pandemic in an aggressive fashion and get the production of needed testing and protective equipment ramped up as fast as possible. Trying to do it any other way is going to be a disaster.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 24, 2020, 02:43:18 PM
Quote
till, a return to a semblance of normal MUST be talked about, don't you think?
no
simply because it will make people start to relax on the social distancing right at the wrong time...now
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on March 24, 2020, 02:56:16 PM
So there's no place for optimism at a time like this.  :?

Nobody has been told to relax social distancing as of yet.

The fact is, no matter what is said or not said, what is done or not done, people always see a need to criticize.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 24, 2020, 02:58:04 PM
good luck america, you are going to need it then
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 24, 2020, 02:58:50 PM
Everyone has an opinion here is mine. We know for a fact the country can't keep shut down for an extended period without dire consequences. Just a reminder money doesn't grow on trees unless you are Venezuela with a 500,000% inflation rate. This can be done if carefully handled without a total nation collapse. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on March 24, 2020, 03:07:43 PM
good luck america, you are going to need it then
But of course new zealand will be fine!

Quote
Covid-19: New Zealand government accused of 'flat-footed' response

Opposition claims not enough is being done to stimulate economy, despite Jacinda Ardern saying nation is in robust position to fight coronavirus
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/covid-19-new-zealand-government-accused-of-flat-footed-response
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on March 24, 2020, 03:16:32 PM
This can be done if carefully handled without a total nation collapse.

Agree. But, to do that, we need the tests. Until we get to the point where we get asymptomatic people tested, we won't know everyone who is spreading the virus. Returning to normal social mixing without that means the "R" value remains over 1 and the number of cases grow.

Until we get to that point, we're unfortunately stuck with brute force distancing methods.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DoctorKnow on March 24, 2020, 03:16:58 PM
If you are feeling like you need to do something, drink some tonic water... It has quinine in it, which is used in Cloroquine.
..snip..
If you look at the map of infection, you can clearly see that areas known to take Cloroquine did not have but just a few deaths from the Virus.
Reminding all that anecdotal 'evidence' is not generally trustworthy.  NO ONE should self-medicate based on internet-circulated claims of  (unsubstantiated) efficacy. 

I disagree. If someone is sick, drinking a little bit of tonic water could help them immensely. They are telling people not to go to a hospital, to stay home unless it is severe. If someone came out and said "stick yourself with a needle", that would be different. Some would probably form a line though...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 24, 2020, 03:36:37 PM
Quote
But of course new zealand will be fine!
NZ is going into national lock down in 18 hours time from now,and that was originally announced with only just over 100 confirmed cases
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 24, 2020, 04:33:37 PM
A very appropriate quote:  "A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."  America Strong,
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 24, 2020, 05:09:10 PM
And the longer the US stays out of work and the economy continues on the road to depression, not just recession, which could last for years, the more the rest of the planet will feel the effects as well. As ironic as this saying is right now, it's certainly applies..."America sneezes and the rest of the world catches a cold."
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on March 24, 2020, 05:29:55 PM
I disagree. If someone is sick, drinking a little bit of tonic water could help them immensely.

That doesn't compute. The two drugs that are being talked about as potential anticoronaviral agents are chloroquine and its hydroxy analogue. While quinine also has a quinoline ring (ie in common with the other two) the rest of the molecule's structure is very significantly different and so almost certainly has markedly different therapeutic properties. But even if they were all comparable, there's apparently about 80mg/l of quinine in tonic water so you'd need to drink around 5-10l for one dose - that's a strange definition of 'a little bit'! And that's just for one single dose. However, if you were to stand out in bright sunlight after several doses I'm pretty sure that you'd fluoresce like mad, (but can't remember whether it's blue or green). And maybe we shouldn't mention the haemorragic and cardiotoxic side-effects of quinine  :shock:

So, agreed, a small glass of tonic water is unlikely to do a patient much harm. But equally it's most unlikely to have any antiviral effect (assuming activity comparable to the antimalarial effect) - the dose would be much too small even if it did have antiviral activity.

NB https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52012242 (hope that's accessible outside the UK?)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on March 24, 2020, 05:50:51 PM
GM, Ford, and Tesla offer to make ventilators to help deal with the pandemic. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8133245/GM-Ford-Elon-Musk-offer-make-ventilators-faces-shortage-amid-coronavirus-crisis.html

VW and Audi change their logos in the spirit of social distancing. https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/audi-and-vw-revise-logos-to-promote-social-distancing/ar-BB11DMtP

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

What are GM, Ford and Tesla thinking? Don't they know they have to have their plants open and have people come to work to make ventilators?

VW and Audi are more responsible, logos make a profound statement and can be designed on computers at home.


 :lol:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 24, 2020, 05:58:34 PM
GM, Ford, and Tesla offer to make ventilators to help deal with the pandemic. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8133245/GM-Ford-Elon-Musk-offer-make-ventilators-faces-shortage-amid-coronavirus-crisis.html

Reminiscent of WWII when it was GMC (I think) that was converted into making tanks. Least we forget, the Allies won that war as well.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on March 24, 2020, 06:04:09 PM
Least we forget, the Allies won that war as well.
Yeah, but we'll never know what would have happened if the Axis had stayed home and redesigned logos on things like the "people's car".


 :-)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ambientweather on March 24, 2020, 07:41:19 PM
We added a COVID-19 layer to our interactive weather map.

www.AmbientWeather.net (http://www.AmbientWeather.net)

Stay safe out there.



(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90564516_2711864865599035_1767281993222979584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=R2h4DUvHEXkAX-iLvUO&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=b0148f75441b94162700d774068448a2&oe=5E9FA8B6)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 24, 2020, 08:34:17 PM
Quote
"America sneezes and the rest of the world catches a cold."
that has not been the case for a few years now, as China has stepped up for trade etc in its place (and China is now recovering from this virus and are getting back to work after a 2 month  brutal lock down )
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 24, 2020, 08:42:25 PM
Quote
"America sneezes and the rest of the world catches a cold."
China has stepped up for trade etc in its place
And I've preached for several years..every day..to those who'll listen..to make that go away. Can't be fast enough. ](*,)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on March 24, 2020, 09:27:38 PM
Quote
"America sneezes and the rest of the world catches a cold."
that has not been the case for a few years now, as China has stepped up for trade etc in its place (and China is now recovering from this virus and are getting back to work after a 2 month  brutal lock down )
Oh, so that's what you have against Trump!  He's trying to get away from being reliant on the communist regime that you love and look up to!  Now I understand.  If only the US would handle the virus in the same thoroughly competent way China did.  :shock:  :roll:

Well, maybe I still don't fully understand why you have such strong feelings about what Trump is doing or saying as it doesn't affect you.  After all I don't even have a clue about what your president, prime minister, chief, or whatever is doing; or even what his/her/its name is because it really doesn't affect me.  nz sneezes and no one even hears.  :-(
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 25, 2020, 01:37:14 AM
In Oklahoma, the governor ordered the closure of "non-essential businesses" in the 19  of 77 counties with confirmed positive cases of COVID-19 for 21 days.  "Non-essential businesses" are defined by federal CDC guidelines.  The governor is also restricting all gatherings to 10 people or less throughout the state. In addition he’s issuing a 14-day suspension of all elective surgeries, minor medical procedures and non emergency dental procedures.  The state will immediately suspend all visitation to nursing home and long-term care facilities.   The number of CODVID-19 cases climbed to 109 on Tuesday, but because of a shortage of testing supplies and few tests being administered, the governor said he believes the actual number is closer to 500. The state expects that many 1000s more tests will be made available at the end of the week.  Three cases in my county.   
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 25, 2020, 03:26:04 AM
@SnowHiker   I care about what Trump is doing and his policies because I have a lot of friends in the USA that I am concerned about
stay safe everyone and everyone work together
(I did live in the USA for a year as an exchange student once)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on March 25, 2020, 04:14:23 AM
...stay safe everyone...
You too.  I hope everyone got a chance to give all their friends and acquaintances hugs and kisses before you went into lock-down since you may not see them for awhile. (Well, at least got to wave goodbye from at least 6 feet apart.  :-))

...and everyone work together...
Can we work together when we're being social at a distance?

Anyway, make the best use of your lock-down however you can.  :-)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 25, 2020, 04:45:23 AM
Health dept. out of California reported the first death of a child COVID-19 was a 17-year-old boy.
 
Meanwhile locally we had a cruise night. Noticed cars full of teenagers having a good time and didn't really look like social distancing. The local Frosty looked like a scene straight out of American Graffiti with carhops jam-packed.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on March 25, 2020, 04:52:18 AM
Health dept. out of California reported the first death of a child COVID-19 was a 17-year-old boy.

Has that been confirmed?

Quote
March 25, 2020 at 1:35 AM CDT - Updated March 25 at 1:35 AM

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Los Angeles County health officials backtracked Tuesday on their announcement that a child died from coronavirus, saying it’s possible the death was caused by something else.

During their daily briefing, the county health department said the unidentified child from the city of Lancaster was among four new deaths.

Hours later, after Gov. Gavin Newsom had cited the death of the teenager as evidence the virus can strike anyone, the county issued a new statement.

“Though early tests indicated a positive result for COVID-19, the case is complex and there may be an alternate explanation for this fatality" and the case will need evaluation by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the statement said.
...
https://www.kswo.com/2020/03/25/boy-with-coronavirus-dies-cases-surge-california/

In any case they and their parents need to be taking things more seriously.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 25, 2020, 05:39:39 AM
Nice!  I live smack dab in the middle of 389.....  #-o


We added a COVID-19 layer to our interactive weather map.

www.AmbientWeather.net (http://www.AmbientWeather.net)

Stay safe out there.



(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90564516_2711864865599035_1767281993222979584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=R2h4DUvHEXkAX-iLvUO&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=b0148f75441b94162700d774068448a2&oe=5E9FA8B6)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 25, 2020, 06:01:00 AM
Nice!  I live smack dab in the middle of 389.....  #-o


We added a COVID-19 layer to our interactive weather map.

www.AmbientWeather.net (http://www.AmbientWeather.net)

Stay safe out there.



(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90564516_2711864865599035_1767281993222979584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=R2h4DUvHEXkAX-iLvUO&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=b0148f75441b94162700d774068448a2&oe=5E9FA8B6)

If you must go into the public please wear a mask. This virus can be airborne in low humidity suspending for up to 3-hours so social distancing may not be sufficient. (official study) You can look at the Asian countries nobody is in public without a mask. It protects everyone the filter prevents spread going both ways.
The fact we are not doing the same nationally is our biggest mistake IMO of stopping this. But then again not enough mask available.  ](*,)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: catdon on March 25, 2020, 10:24:12 AM
It's just hard to believe that we're going thru such a global pandemic in 2020...This is something that we thought couldn't happen again...A century ago yes but not now....scary.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DoctorKnow on March 25, 2020, 10:36:19 AM
It's just hard to believe that we're going thru such a global pandemic in 2020...This is something that we thought couldn't happen again...A century ago yes but not now....scary.

It can happen, when you have mad scientists messing with things that they should let alone, and also when people are doing things with bats that is disgusting. ( I will not relay what I saw about that) These things can happen with bio weapons as well.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on March 25, 2020, 10:44:19 AM
It's just hard to believe that we're going thru such a global pandemic in 2020...This is something that we thought couldn't happen again...A century ago yes but not now....scary.
Well, I for one don't think we're so much smarter than our ancestors.  We possess much greater connectivity via travel and instantaneous worldwide communication, and we have technologies that our forebears could only dream of.  But our forebears were just as smart as we are!  Unfortunately many of them were just as susceptible to emotional manipulation as our contemporaries.

None of these things preclude a pandemic!  In fact our travel connectivity often gives a new pathogen a lift everywhere before we're even aware of its presence.  Diseases are always seeking chinks in our armor, and they will always find them.  Only after these chinks are exploited will we be able to bring the full force of our technology to bear in order to shore up our defenses once again.  Meanwhile we endure pandemics and all of the problems they entail.
Edited for clarity.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 25, 2020, 04:22:02 PM
It's just hard to believe that we're going thru such a global pandemic in 2020...This is something that we thought couldn't happen again...A century ago yes but not now....scary.

The scary part to me is that the only reason why we in NY State are reporting so many cases is because we are testing suspected cases in huge numbers compared with other states.  The positive test rate as of a few days ago was about 25%.  I suspect that most other areas in the country also have a large number of infected people...but haven't done the testing yet.

In checking one of our local news web sites, they are reporting the first fatality in our county.  The latest count is 539 positives.....

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on March 25, 2020, 05:23:41 PM
Massachusetts report:

+679 identified cases for 1838 total

+4 deaths for 15 total

About 6000 new tests for just under 20K total.

School opening has been pushed back to May 4.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 25, 2020, 08:58:01 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-will-worsen-over-next-month-if-restrictions-eased-top-pentagon-doctor-says
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: wxthomson on March 25, 2020, 09:15:22 PM


[/quote]Oh, so that's what you have against Trump!  He's trying to get away from being reliant on the communist regime that you love and look up to!  Now I understand.  If only the US would handle the virus in the same thoroughly competent way China did.  :shock:  :roll:

Well, maybe I still don't fully understand why you have such strong feelings about what Trump is doing or saying as it doesn't affect you.  After all I don't even have a clue about what your president, prime minister, chief, or whatever is doing; or even what his/her/its name is because it really doesn't affect me.  nz sneezes and no one even hears.  :-(
[/quote]

I thought we were trying to keep politics out of this discussion?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on March 25, 2020, 09:26:26 PM
Sorry wxthomson... the above post is not acceptable content.  A: political. B: personally defaming/denigrating.

Refrain from such posts in the future or be banned.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: wxthomson on March 25, 2020, 09:53:29 PM
Sorry wxthomson... the above post is not acceptable content.  A: political. B: personally defaming/denigrating.

Refrain from such posts in the future or be banned.

I was commenting on post#211 regarding politics

I find post#211 unacceptable comment
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on March 25, 2020, 10:05:55 PM
Ahhh... sorry, the garbled quotes made me attribute the poster incorrectly.  I apologize for the error.

@SnowHiker is the guilty party:

Quote
"America sneezes and the rest of the world catches a cold."
that has not been the case for a few years now, as China has stepped up for trade etc in its place (and China is now recovering from this virus and are getting back to work after a 2 month  brutal lock down )
Oh, so that's what you have against Trump!  He's trying to get away from being reliant on the communist regime that you love and look up to!  Now I understand.  If only the US would handle the virus in the same thoroughly competent way China did.  :shock:  :roll:

Well, maybe I still don't fully understand why you have such strong feelings about what Trump is doing or saying as it doesn't affect you.  After all I don't even have a clue about what your president, prime minister, chief, or whatever is doing; or even what his/her/its name is because it really doesn't affect me.  nz sneezes and no one even hears.  :-(

SnowHiker: the above post is not acceptable content.  A: political. B: personally defaming/denigrating.

Refrain from such posts in the future or be banned.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 25, 2020, 10:07:47 PM
Yes, GOD FORBID we have a civil, intelligent conversation about the most crucial moment in our, our children, and our children's children's lives since October of 1962. :roll: Like it or not, blame is to be reckoned with.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on March 25, 2020, 10:10:27 PM
Civil, intelligent conversation is encouraged.  Political speech and personal denigration is not.  Easy to separate out.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 26, 2020, 02:54:13 AM
Waiukuweather started the political attack on our President.  Taking the MSM talking points and regurgitating its offensive relentless lies and attacks to me and others that believe our president is doing a bang-up job is extremely offensive to those supporting our president. 

Civil, intelligent conversation is encouraged.  Political speech and personal denigration is not.  Easy to separate out.



why is Trump talking about wanting americans to go back to work and scaling back solcial distancing already?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 26, 2020, 03:12:29 AM
Quote
why is Trump talking about wanting americans to go back to work and scaling back solcial distancing already?
As an 'alien' having seen and heard the gentleman's statements on reliable news media, this seems to be a reasonable question  :?

Not a poison arrow to warrant xenophobic rhetoric  :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 26, 2020, 03:50:22 AM
I was offended and bit my lip because it was a media hate Trump talking point the rest of the world gets fed daily and taken out of context as usual of what was actually being said about the timeline to get the nation moving again. He's our President if he wants parts of the nation to get moving I say great and support his decision.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 26, 2020, 04:05:57 AM
I was offended and bit my lip because it was a media hate Trump talking point the rest of the world gets fed daily and taken out of context as usual of what was actually being said about the timeline to get the nation moving again. He's our President if he wants parts of the nation to get moving I say great and support his decision.
=D>
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on March 26, 2020, 06:06:26 AM
Quote
why is Trump talking about wanting americans to go back to work and scaling back solcial distancing already?
As an 'alien' having seen and heard the gentleman's statements on reliable news media, this seems to be a reasonable question  :?

Not a poison arrow to warrant xenophobic rhetoric  :roll:
To reiterate: https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=38990.msg401658#msg401658

Just when is it permissible in your esteemed (sorry, got carried away :oops:) view to discuss such things?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 26, 2020, 07:29:09 AM
Fellow Nebraskans I've been in contact with DHHS about building an interactive map to help follow the spread so we can take extra precaution and they came through.

https://nebraska.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/4213f719a45647bc873ffb58783ffef3
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on March 26, 2020, 07:42:53 AM
Great job, Randy.  Thanks for pursuing this! =D> \:D/ =D>
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: BeaverMeadow on March 26, 2020, 08:09:29 AM
Fauci said that even if covid-19 subsides with warm weather it will most likely be back next near because the flu season is just beginning in the S. Hemisphere. Hopefully we will have a vaccine by then.

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DoctorKnow on March 26, 2020, 08:43:28 AM
I was offended and bit my lip because it was a media hate Trump talking point the rest of the world gets fed daily and taken out of context as usual of what was actually being said about the timeline to get the nation moving again. He's our President if he wants parts of the nation to get moving I say great and support his decision.

Me too. UU
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on March 26, 2020, 08:46:12 AM
Fellow Nebraskans I've been in contact with DHHS about building an interactive map to help follow the spread so we can take extra precaution and they came through.

Not criticising the principle at all, but doesn't that tell you where the threat was 5-10 days ago rather than where it is now? One of the problems with viral diseases like COVID is that it's being actively spread before the sufferers realise that they're significantly sick, let alone hospitalised or tested.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on March 26, 2020, 08:53:38 AM
I was offended and bit my lip because it was a media hate Trump talking point the rest of the world gets fed daily and taken out of context as usual of what was actually being said about the timeline to get the nation moving again. He's our President if he wants parts of the nation to get moving I say great and support his decision.
It will be a "very well done" to your President, if he can do that in the time period his video interviews indicate he is aiming for.

While the perspective of the link below is clearly about Australia, the global infection information, provided by various countries including the US, is what is causing people to have questions about whether the time frames being aimed for by your President are realistic given the actions and outcomes elsewhere. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-26/coronavirus-covid19-global-spread-data-explained/12089028

P.S. That ABC is the Australian Broadcasting Commission, not the American Broadcasting Company
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 26, 2020, 08:56:30 AM
Please refrain from pointing fingers in the thread. If you see a problem then use the "Report to moderator" link on the message and it will get handled.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 26, 2020, 09:12:54 AM
Fellow Nebraskans I've been in contact with DHHS about building an interactive map to help follow the spread so we can take extra precaution and they came through.

Not criticising the principle at all, but doesn't that tell you where the threat was 5-10 days ago rather than where it is now? One of the problems with viral diseases like COVID is that it's being actively spread before the sufferers realise that they're significantly sick, let alone hospitalised or tested.

We need to know what areas the virus is spreading no matter how old the information is so we can be more diligent in preventing spread.  I see no advantage in being blind and having no information at all? 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: AWL on March 26, 2020, 09:23:40 AM
If we don't get the country back to work as soon as possible in a couple of months the news ticker on Fox News won't be a coronavirus update but rather all about food shortages due to supple line disruptions. People think it's bad now just wait until everyone starts getting hungry.


Doug
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on March 26, 2020, 12:18:14 PM
Just because someone doesn't agree with something, or the way it's stated, doesn't make it "xenophobic", "racist", "hateful", or whatever.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 26, 2020, 12:48:51 PM
Just because someone doesn't agree with something, or the way it's stated, doesn't make it "xenophobic", "racist", "hateful", or whatever.

Haven't you read the playbook yet? It's always the same.  [-X   :grin:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on March 26, 2020, 12:58:52 PM
Haven't you read the playbook yet? It's always the same.  [-X   :grin:

You're just trying to egg me on to get me banned.  :lol:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 26, 2020, 01:55:07 PM
 :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on March 26, 2020, 03:53:43 PM
Trying to contact the bank in regards to mortgage help.
Waited on hold yesterday for over 2 hours. On hold as I write this for 2 hours today.  :evil:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 26, 2020, 05:37:37 PM
the USA now has the most cases of anywhere in the world now
(which means though lots of testing is been done which is good)
(although the chinese data is very suspicious)
deaths numbers are also increasing exponentially too in the USA
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 26, 2020, 06:30:42 PM
I just saw the most mind-blowing stupid 21 year old "women" that licked the toilet seat on an airplane being interviewed on Dr. Phil. Mind....Blowing....Stupid... If that what this generation is bringing to the table the next 30 years, we're doomed as a country. Forget the virus.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 26, 2020, 07:12:08 PM
I just saw the most mind-blowing stupid 21 year old "women" that licked the toilet seat on an airplane being interviewed on Dr. Phil. Mind....Blowing....Stupid... If that what this generation is bringing to the table the next 30 years, we're doomed as a country. Forget the virus.

All I can think of is a nasty case of hepatitis. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on March 26, 2020, 07:12:26 PM
Trying to contact the bank in regards to mortgage help.
Waited on hold yesterday for over 2 hours. On hold as I write this for 2 hours today.  :evil:
On hold for 5 hours and 1 minute but I finally got through. No mortgage for 3 months. Just add it  to the end. I'll probably be out of work next week. :sad:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 26, 2020, 07:17:03 PM
I just saw the most mind-blowing stupid 21 year old "women" that licked the toilet seat on an airplane being interviewed on Dr. Phil. Mind....Blowing....Stupid... If that what this generation is bringing to the table the next 30 years, we're doomed as a country. Forget the virus.

All I can think of is a nasty case of hepatitis. 
I just saw the most mind-blowing stupid 21 year old "women" that licked the toilet seat on an airplane being interviewed on Dr. Phil. Mind....Blowing....Stupid... If that what this generation is bringing to the table the next 30 years, we're doomed as a country. Forget the virus.
Obviously, she never saw the movie LOGAN'S RUN (dead after 30) nor read the history behind the 1918 Spanish Flu in school.
When this is out on YouTube or whatever and you choose to watch...prepare yourself.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 26, 2020, 07:21:25 PM
Trying to contact the bank in regards to mortgage help.
Waited on hold yesterday for over 2 hours. On hold as I write this for 2 hours today.  :evil:
On hold for 5 hours and 1 minute but I finally got through. No mortgage for 3 months. Just add it  to the end. I'll probably be out of work next week. :sad:
Sorry bro...Hopefully OUR "House" will do their job.  :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: wxthomson on March 26, 2020, 08:34:02 PM
Civil, intelligent conversation is encouraged.  Political speech and personal denigration is not.  Easy to separate out.

Thank you
Couldn't agree more.
It would be great if just one part of my daily life could be free of politics!
I was hoping a weather forum could be that place.

You can't turn on any cable news without witnessing people arguing and yelling at each other.
I'm tired of it and I have to believe many others are as well.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 26, 2020, 08:46:54 PM
Civil, intelligent conversation is encouraged.  Political speech and personal denigration is not.  Easy to separate out.
You can't turn on any cable news without witnessing people arguing and yelling at each other.
I'm tired of it and I have to believe many others are as well.
There's a reason why they're arguing and yelling. It's called Congress. We're ALL tired of it.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on March 26, 2020, 11:24:16 PM
I disagree with Trump, the Iowa GOv and others.  Dr. Fauci says 10 weeks and it won't be over by Easter.   It is not us that sets the timeline, the virus sets the timeline.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on March 27, 2020, 01:27:48 AM
While it is widely reported that the President is contemplating selective lifting of the Federal orders, the epidemiologists continue to caution that lifting before the slope of increase in infections declines would likely lead to the very surge in cases we're trying to avoid. 
I agree that it is wise to let the course of the infections flatten the curve before we begin 'getting back to normal' in a measured pace.

I agree that the virus and our mitigation efforts that sets the pace.  Without a vaccine, we're mostly left with shelter-in-place and physical distancing to halt the spread to new cases.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 27, 2020, 02:06:20 AM
It has been clearly stated in briefings if people would just listen there is no set in stone timeline of easing restrictions to go back to work as being falsely and widely distributed by the media.
 
They are currently working on a schedule based on new data being gathered as stated multiple times yesterday and would have further information in the week ahead when easing restrictions would be implemented. This is all being done under the advice of medical personal on the coronavirus task force and other professionals.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 27, 2020, 02:29:34 AM
Trying to contact the bank in regards to mortgage help.
Waited on hold yesterday for over 2 hours. On hold as I write this for 2 hours today.  :evil:
On hold for 5 hours and 1 minute but I finally got through. No mortgage for 3 months. Just add it  to the end. I'll probably be out of work next week. :sad:

I hope all works out hate to hear all the hardships.
My daughter in social services is out of a job currently, the other daughter is still on payroll being management but the business has came to standstill so the future is unknown. My son is in healthcare so business is booming and doing well.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 27, 2020, 02:35:22 AM
Trying to contact the bank in regards to mortgage help.
Waited on hold yesterday for over 2 hours. On hold as I write this for 2 hours today.  :evil:
On hold for 5 hours and 1 minute but I finally got through. No mortgage for 3 months. Just add it  to the end. I'll probably be out of work next week. :sad:
My son is in healthcare so business is booming and doing well.
Talk about a double edged sword...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 27, 2020, 02:47:05 AM
@ Valentineweather :Good to hear then that Trumps goal of church's filled to the brim for Easter sunday is only a nice if could happen thing only
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 27, 2020, 02:58:28 AM

Talk about a double edged sword...

He is the technician over a bunch of health clinics in Utah and Arizona so travels between St.George Utah and Tuscon almost weekly.  His wife is really on the frontline in nursing.  They do have at least 19 covid-19 cases where she works Coconino county so it's there.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 27, 2020, 02:59:51 AM

Talk about a double edged sword...

He is the technician over a bunch of health clinics in Utah and Arizona so travels between St.George Utah and Tuscon almost weekly.  His wife is really on the frontline in nursing. 
=D>
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 27, 2020, 01:29:42 PM
I see the USA is running at 1.5% death rate
which is low compared to some other countries
which will be a reflection of lots of testing (good)
total numbers who have it nearly 100,000 now
because there is like a 2 week delay with the pandemic curve for deaths , compared to cases, then in a couple of weeks from now the total deaths will be (currently that is  over 1,300) 92,000 times 1.5% , i,e 9,200  (i.e hospitals will be having to decide who dies and who lives by then..this is the stark reality)..which is where Italy is now

I see even the Prime Minister of the UK has it now  :shock:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on March 27, 2020, 02:44:35 PM
I see the USA is running at 1.5% death rate

I suspect that it's actually significantly lower than that, maybe in the range 0.5-1.0% or conceivably even <0.5%. Problem is that even in regions with good testing, there are probably many people with mild symptoms who simply don't get tested. Until we get proven reliable antibody testing (ie rather than the current antigen testing for active virus) and implemented on population-wide samples, there's just no real way of knowing. And that information is still probably some months away.

Even then, the death rate would need to be age adjusted (ie calculated as an SMR) to allow for different age profiles in different populations. Ultimately, it might be better to calculate the impact as Qualy's lost rather than a crude death rate.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 27, 2020, 02:50:52 PM
yes, the death rate is like over 15% for older people
the seasonal flu death rate is only 0.1% for the whole population (i.e so for the vast majority seasonal flu is a not a killer)
(deaths is U shaped for seasonal flu, i.e very young and very old succumb to it)
but you could argue that is a bit low because the older people get vaccinated for seasonal flu

this new virus is killing people under 65 (most are over)  even people in their 20's/30's
over 20 doctors in Italy have died from this new virus...they don't die from the normal flu (long working hours and stress would not have helped during this pandemic)

people need to take this pandemic very seriously and stay at home to flatten the curve. There is no vaccine (yet) and no proven anti viral treatments (there are some being trialled)
 as it is more contagious than the normal flu and people are spreading it without knowing they have it too
(a positive case here the contact tracing came down to just borrowing someones pen!)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 27, 2020, 03:32:02 PM
Trying to contact the bank in regards to mortgage help.
Waited on hold yesterday for over 2 hours. On hold as I write this for 2 hours today.  :evil:
On hold for 5 hours and 1 minute but I finally got through. No mortgage for 3 months. Just add it  to the end. I'll probably be out of work next week. :sad:

Chase bank here and hold time says that current hold time is 39 hours! Their hold music sucks and is full of static.

I don't understand why they don't just enable a simple form within your online account management to enroll. This is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 27, 2020, 03:52:25 PM
Trying to contact the bank in regards to mortgage help.
Waited on hold yesterday for over 2 hours. On hold as I write this for 2 hours today.  :evil:
On hold for 5 hours and 1 minute but I finally got through. No mortgage for 3 months. Just add it  to the end. I'll probably be out of work next week. :sad:

Chase bank here and hold time says that current hold time is 39 hours! Their hold music sucks and is full of static.

I don't understand why they don't just enable a simple form within your online account management to enroll. This is ridiculous.

...and I just got disconnected after less than an hour on hold. Frankly I don't know why I bothered to stay on. It was just a test to see when they would update the hold time remaining. The automated hold assistant would come on every few minutes and say that someone would be with me shortly <gasp> but it never mentioned the hold time estimated as that was only mentioned at the beginning of the call. They close at 6PM Eastern on Friday anyway. Not open on the weekend. So this will have to wait till Monday morning. I'll try and get on first thing to see if that is any better.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on March 27, 2020, 03:54:11 PM
Trying to contact the bank in regards to mortgage help.
Waited on hold yesterday for over 2 hours. On hold as I write this for 2 hours today.  :evil:
On hold for 5 hours and 1 minute but I finally got through. No mortgage for 3 months. Just add it  to the end. I'll probably be out of work next week. :sad:

Chase bank here and hold time says that current hold time is 39 hours! Their hold music sucks and is full of static.

I don't understand why they don't just enable a simple form within your online account management to enroll. This is ridiculous.
Holy crap 39 hours?
Makes my 5 hours seem like nothing.
I imagine they will go to some kind of on line registration. But when.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 27, 2020, 04:05:42 PM
Holy crap 39 hours?
Makes my 5 hours seem like nothing.
I imagine they will go to some kind of on line registration. But when.

Yes 39 hours!

Another option they could do is to sign up for some automated call back system. They are certainly not prepared for this.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 27, 2020, 04:08:28 PM
Someone sent me a text that says to gas up vehicles there could be a gas shortage. Sounds crazy I thought we had an abundance of gas. Is this just another bad prank to instill panic buying like with toilet paper? ....  :evil:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Mabcmb on March 27, 2020, 04:13:52 PM
If this is already on this thread I apologize . But if not here's the link to the Corvid19 tracker worldwide from John Hopkins  . Has alot of info and updates frequently . Since yesterday the US has gained 14,000 new positive people but that's just due to people finally getting tested . But please remember the greatest number of people who get the virus do recover by a large percentage .

Link : https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on March 27, 2020, 04:17:22 PM
Someone sent me a text that says to gas up vehicles there could be a gas shortage. Sounds crazy I thought we had an abundance of gas. Is this just another bad prank to instill panic buying like with toilet paper? ....  :evil:

If it's anything like Europe, it's just a sensible precaution. If you have an enforced lockdown then there'll be minimal driving and also best to avoid gas stations. But you might feel more comfortable to have a full tank, just to be on the safe side...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 27, 2020, 04:19:38 PM
If this is already on this thread I apologize . But if not here's the link to the Corvid19 tracker worldwide from John Hopkins  . Has alot of info and updates frequently . Since yesterday the US has gained 14,000 new positive people but that's just due to people finally getting tested . But please remember the greatest number of people who get the virus do recover by a large percentage .

Link : https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

I read that refineries are running out of place to put oil. I don't see how that translates to a shortage...quite the opposite problem.

https://fortune.com/2020/03/27/coronavirus-gas-prices-oil-industry-storage-crude-production/
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Mabcmb on March 27, 2020, 04:24:47 PM
Someone sent me a text that says to gas up vehicles there could be a gas shortage. Sounds crazy I thought we had an abundance of gas. Is this just another bad prank to instill panic buying like with toilet paper? ....  :evil:

 The gas station I usually go to has shut down . The owner didn't want people to infect his employees and his station doesn't have a window for people to pay at . He was going to make it pay at the pump only but he told me that was still a headache so he decided to just shut down the station . Maybe others are doing that also .
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 27, 2020, 05:05:24 PM
Miracles do happen...President Trump just signed the 2T$ relief bill into law. Hopefully this will help alota folks out.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: AWL on March 27, 2020, 07:19:04 PM
There is more to a barrel of refined oil than just gas and diesel. Propane, butane, kerosene(jet fuel) and the heavy  products that go into motor oil lubs ect.  If any one of these products are not being shipped out of the refineries then on site storage begins to be a problem as tank space is limited.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 27, 2020, 08:03:56 PM
Still, bad news coming out of Italy. The highest number of deaths to date. WOW, 46 doctors have died. These unselfish brave people putting their lives on the line to save lives.
Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


5909 new cases and 919 new deaths in Italy. Highest number of new deaths since the beginning of the epidemic in Italy [source] [video]. 46 doctors have died to date (with 4 additional deaths today). 6414 health workers have tested positive [source]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on March 27, 2020, 08:30:46 PM
and Italy thought it won't happen to them
now the same thing is happening in Spain
and other countries are following
don't think it won't happen to your country /state
the only way to beat it is to break the chain of transmission
i.e stay home
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 28, 2020, 08:34:34 AM
There is more to a barrel of refined oil than just gas and diesel. Propane, butane, kerosene(jet fuel) and the heavy  products that go into motor oil lubs ect.  If any one of these products are not being shipped out of the refineries then on site storage begins to be a problem as tank space is limited.

I read an article last night saying that Western Canada oil is selling for US $5.00/barrel...and might go negative pricing.  Perfect time to refill the US strategic reserve.....
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 28, 2020, 10:37:18 AM
Minnesota went under a stay at home order last night. Essential trips only. Which is what we have been doing for the last two weeks anyway.

My man cave has been converted to a dance studio. 2 4x8 sanded plywood sheets and built a ballet barre. Set the daughter up with a connection so she can teach her Fargo dance class from Minneapolis.

My in-laws came back from CA last night. I had to get them. I found two masks in the garage, from painting, and sent them out so they could wear them.  Hell bent to come home. Ugh.
We told them they had to stay in their apt for 14 days, no contact. We will bring them groceries.

MSP was a ghost town. Very weird.

My wife will get to cut my hair today. No pics.

Schools are closed until May 3. I am expecting it to be longer. SO-I told HR that I would come off leave and do my classes long distance. I have seen what has been put on for the  last weeks and it was crap. I am trying to be the solution. Waiting to see if my principal has burned me.

I have also applied to other districts. A lot of jobs open. I am sure interviews will not happen until this stuff is settled.

Happy days all.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on March 28, 2020, 10:52:26 AM
Down here in Boca Raton Florida moving my daughter out of college.
Quite the cluster if you know what I mean. 😵
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bushman on March 28, 2020, 11:01:58 AM
There is more to a barrel of refined oil than just gas and diesel. Propane, butane, kerosene(jet fuel) and the heavy  products that go into motor oil lubs ect.  If any one of these products are not being shipped out of the refineries then on site storage begins to be a problem as tank space is limited.

I read an article last night saying that Western Canada oil is selling for US $5.00/barrel...and might go negative pricing.  Perfect time to refill the US strategic reserve.....

Less than $5 actually.  But it is Western Canada Select  - heavy oil.  If only there was a pipeline to get more of it to sales points or storage.  ;)  It will never go negative; producers are stopping production is all.  Canada has been under seige by the environmental cause/greenies.  And where are their protests now??  BTW, once there is control over Covid-19 you will see a very long backfill time. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 28, 2020, 11:51:46 AM
BTW, once there is control over Covid-19 you will see a very long backfill time.

... and also stores will not have any room to put the abundance of TP.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 28, 2020, 12:03:37 PM
BTW, once there is control over Covid-19 you will see a very long backfill time.

... and also stores will not have any room to put the abundance of TP.

Well, maybe they will find a new use for the extra supply.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on March 28, 2020, 02:29:48 PM
home value
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: BeaverMeadow on March 28, 2020, 04:44:59 PM
Some people are more generous than others--

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaID_kKgKdY
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 28, 2020, 08:52:14 PM
I had to go to the local Big Lots for some essentials. Only several people were there.  I was glad the store was looking out for customers, probably done out of local government directive.  The entrance doors were propped open, so you didn't have to touch them to come in.   At checkouts,  X's were marked on the floor for distancing.   Of course, the cashier would have to cough in her elbow, but a small clear plastic screen was set up in front of her. 

Here is the mayor's Saturday update:

Payne County now has 12 positive COVID-19 cases, up from 7 yesterday. This is consistent with our expectation, and there are still a number of unconfirmed cases in our community. The rising case numbers reflect the availability of testing, but not a lot of other insight.

Our concern continues to be on the number of hospitalizations and deaths, which may reflect more about the ongoing spread of coronavirus. Deaths in Oklahoma jumped from 8 to 15 overnight.

OKC and Tulsa jointly issued new “shelter in place” orders today. These orders expand Governor Stitt’s “safer at home” policy, which applies only to vulnerable populations, to all residents of OKC and Tulsa. Both cities continue to use the Governor’s list of nonessential business closures.

As I wrote earlier this week, we are all vulnerable to this virus and we should all abide by the safer at home guidelines: Stay home except for essential errands or to work at an essential business. Many of you have pointed out to me that our community is not following this advice, and I share this concern.

City staff is working on a shelter in place order for Stillwater that will align with OKC, Tulsa, and Norman, which issued a similar order earlier this week. Stillwater’s order will likely take effect on Tuesday morning, as we work to determine the details of enforcement and application.

Our efforts to slow the spread of this virus are best undertaken collectively and regionally, so that we can all protect each other. I urge other communities in Oklahoma, as well as the Governor, to adopt these more stringent standards as well.

 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 28, 2020, 09:07:34 PM
It is apparently becoming more evident that merely "occupying" the same open space (i.e. grocery store) as an effected person for a short amount of time is not necessarily a "favorable" way to catch it compared to touching ones face with contaminated hands. That's a SURE way of transmission. As the title of the thread states...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 28, 2020, 09:47:56 PM
Speaking to my son today they are dealing with many cases in Arizona especially on the Navajo reservation where they have clinics. He said even the desk workers are fully PPE out even with eye protection. One thing that caught my attention he said people forget about shoes when they come home they need to be sterilized with disinfectant.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 29, 2020, 02:31:53 AM
Info on how to boost your immune system.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/h-4bqs6YDz0[/youtube]


Part 2 more detailed on vitamin D and how it works with acute respiratory infections

[youtube]https://youtu.be/4f7NxpAreQs[/youtube]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on March 29, 2020, 12:20:04 PM
I recommend that people take such advice as above with skepticism.  There have been many tropes circulating regarding 'boosting immune system' and 'nasal heat treatments' (etc) that have not been validated by double-blind/peer-reviewed studies.  The novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 is novel meaning humans haven't experienced it before and have no built-in immunity so we are all susceptible, and there is currently no established cure nor vaccine available (but both are being worked on currently).

For now, social distancing, stay-at-home, and hygine are the available methods to slow the spread. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on March 29, 2020, 12:30:48 PM
At the 5:30 minute mark this so called Dr. calls Dr. Fauci corrupt. At that point I stopped watching. This is not medical advice. These are opportunists and are spreading conspiracy theory propaganda. Sure there is some valid message about eating and being healthy, but the method of message delivery is deceitful. Holistic medicine didn't save Steve Jobs.

I don't have a problem telling people to live healthy lives, but not at the expense against our trusted medical leaders.

Doctors often disagree with each other. This is why often people seek a second opinion. But respectable doctors when they disagree they do it in a respectful way. That video was not professional.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 29, 2020, 12:44:26 PM
For now, social distancing, stay-at-home, and hygine are the available methods to slow the spread.

My new sing-a-long while washing my hands way too frequently:

If you're healthy and you know it, wash your hands!
If you're healthy and you know it, wash your hands!
If you're healthy and you know it, and don't wanna die from COVID,
If you're healthy and you know it, wash your hands!

Sing it twice with soap and hot water, and practice safe social distancing.....
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 29, 2020, 04:16:35 PM
For now, social distancing, stay-at-home, and hygine are the available methods to slow the spread.

My new sing-a-long while washing my hands way too frequently:

If you're healthy and you know it, wash your hands!
If you're healthy and you know it, wash your hands!
If you're healthy and you know it, and don't wanna die from COVID,
If you're healthy and you know it, wash your hands!

Sing it twice with soap and hot water, and practice safe social distancing.....
Thanks....now I got the damn song stuck in my head... ;)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on March 29, 2020, 05:47:30 PM
Thanks....now I got the damn song stuck in my head... ;)

Stay healthy, my friend.....  [tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on March 29, 2020, 07:12:25 PM
Watching the evening national news is quite sobering.
 :sad:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 29, 2020, 07:12:40 PM
Decided to go back to teaching tomorrow. Distance learning from the luxury of my couch!!!!!!

May be the best thing for me.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on March 29, 2020, 07:14:40 PM
Watching the evening national news is quite sobering.
 :sad:

I quit watching.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 29, 2020, 07:24:57 PM
Watching the evening national news is quite sobering.
 :sad:

I quit watching.
Same. It's bad enough the other issues I have in my personal life right now (the timing of this crap is beyond belief), and I absolutely support "knowledge is power", but the 24/7 down your throat is getting super old super fast...and NO known end in sight.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: cospringswx on March 29, 2020, 07:41:01 PM
Hi all,

Haven't been active here in some time due to full time college and working full time. I hope everyone is well. The situation in Colorado is getting worse by the day as is within every other state. I am currently a customer service manager in a retail store here in the Springs and there are thousands of people come in every day. It really is a ticking time bomb.
When they close the ski resorts across Colorado,  that's a big deal!
Ryan
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on March 30, 2020, 09:43:39 AM
My new sing-a-long while washing my hands way too frequently:

If you're healthy and you know it, wash your hands!
If you're healthy and you know it, wash your hands!
If you're healthy and you know it, and don't wanna die from COVID,
If you're healthy and you know it, wash your hands!

Sing it twice with soap and hot water, and practice safe social distancing.....

Pro tip: Don't clap when you normally would during this song. Makes a mess. Trust me.  :grin:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 30, 2020, 10:00:06 AM
Watching the evening national news is quite sobering.
 :sad:

I quit watching.
Same. It's bad enough the other issues I have in my personal life right now (the timing of this crap is beyond belief), and I absolutely support "knowledge is power", but the 24/7 down your throat is getting super old super fast...and NO known end in sight.

Well stay strong this is a hard-on everyone can't imagine having side issues I'm very fortunate with no income or other issues threatening and it's still hard. I had to fully dress PPE for a renter yesterday spent over an hour in the house and she works 25 yo with the public daily and it's not a good feeling did you screw something up taking the mask or goggles off touching your face. Did you spread it into the vehicle or house on clothing etc? We will get through this.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on March 30, 2020, 12:09:33 PM
Interesting times .... and the resourcefulness of mankind.

In 100hr the University College of London Hospital and Mercedes F1 have redesigned, manufactured and tested a COPD. Simple to use and non-intrusive, leaving ventilators free for the most serious cases. Mercedes hopeful of manufacturing 10,000 / week.
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/mar/ucl-uclh-and-formula-one-develop-life-saving-breathing-aids-nhs

In the same vein a consortium Of Dyson, JCB and others are awaiting regulatory approval to produce ventilators by the thousands - unavailable / short supply parts being made by 3D printers !
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 30, 2020, 03:32:19 PM
Beginning today at 11:59 p.m., the City of Stillwater has issued a Shelter in Place order, which requires residents to stay home and only leave for essential activities or business.  There are 14 cases in the county.

What does Shelter in Place mean?

• Stay home. Exceptions are listed below.

• You can shop for medicine, gas, repairs, and other essential goods and services.

• You can go to a restaurant for takeout or drive thru service.

• You can go to the doctor and take care of other essential needs.

• You can exercise outside, including on sidewalks, trails and in public parks. You can enjoy outdoor activities like long walks, bike rides and fishing. Green spaces in parks are open. But all playgrounds are closed. City-owned playgrounds and other park equipment like sport courts (basketball, tennis, volleyball, etc.) are closed.

• You can go to work in an essential job. You can also do business with someone working in an essential job. Those jobs are defined by the State of Oklahoma, using a federal list and one provided by the Governor. Find out more at okcommerce.gov/covid19. No special letter or permit is needed.

• You can drive, bike and walk. You don’t need special ID or a permit. Police aren’t asking people to prove why they’re outside their home.

• You can work from home if you work in a job defined by the State as non-essential. You can also work with someone doing a non-essential job from home. Even if it’s an essential job, employers are encouraged to allow employees to work from home if possible.

• Staff are allowed on site even at closed non-essential businesses for basic tasks like maintenance and security.

• You can check on someone in need.

• You can donate at blood drives, volunteer at food banks and participate in other disaster response activities.

• Staff can be at faith-based sites to record or broadcast services.

• Stay 6 feet away from others, for your safety and theirs.

• Wash your hands before you leave your house, and as soon as you get home.

• You can call 911 if you have specific information about someone violating the order. Police may investigate. Officers will ask for voluntary compliance, but may use discretion to issue citations if necessary.

The city manager said, “We’d like to stress that while police will not be stopping residents for leaving their homes nor asking for permits or letters, the City is taking the situation very seriously in order to protect the community. Police are taking every step to use education and warning before issuing a fine; however the order allows up to a $500 fine for violation.”
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Farmtalk on March 30, 2020, 04:54:50 PM
Beginning today at 11:59 p.m., the City of Stillwater has issued a Shelter in Place order, which requires residents to stay home and only leave for essential activities or business.  There are 14 cases in the county.

What does Shelter in Place mean?

• Stay home. Exceptions are listed below.

• You can shop for medicine, gas, repairs, and other essential goods and services.

• You can go to a restaurant for takeout or drive thru service.

• You can go to the doctor and take care of other essential needs.

• You can exercise outside, including on sidewalks, trails and in public parks. You can enjoy outdoor activities like long walks, bike rides and fishing. Green spaces in parks are open. But all playgrounds are closed. City-owned playgrounds and other park equipment like sport courts (basketball, tennis, volleyball, etc.) are closed.

• You can go to work in an essential job. You can also do business with someone working in an essential job. Those jobs are defined by the State of Oklahoma, using a federal list and one provided by the Governor. Find out more at okcommerce.gov/covid19. No special letter or permit is needed.

• You can drive, bike and walk. You don’t need special ID or a permit. Police aren’t asking people to prove why they’re outside their home.

• You can work from home if you work in a job defined by the State as non-essential. You can also work with someone doing a non-essential job from home. Even if it’s an essential job, employers are encouraged to allow employees to work from home if possible.

• Staff are allowed on site even at closed non-essential businesses for basic tasks like maintenance and security.

• You can check on someone in need.

• You can donate at blood drives, volunteer at food banks and participate in other disaster response activities.

• Staff can be at faith-based sites to record or broadcast services.

• Stay 6 feet away from others, for your safety and theirs.

• Wash your hands before you leave your house, and as soon as you get home.

• You can call 911 if you have specific information about someone violating the order. Police may investigate. Officers will ask for voluntary compliance, but may use discretion to issue citations if necessary.

The city manager said, “We’d like to stress that while police will not be stopping residents for leaving their homes nor asking for permits or letters, the City is taking the situation very seriously in order to protect the community. Police are taking every step to use education and warning before issuing a fine; however the order allows up to a $500 fine for violation.”

We have orders like these. I'm in the news business (meteorologist, but I produce and do some reporting as well), and I find it interesting that in most cases, police are not enforcing this.

Regardless of how you feel about shelter in places, quarantines, etc., there are always people that are going to do what they want because they feel they do not need to abide by the law/order/recommendations. Why would police not put forth more of an effort to enforce these? And how could they enforce these closely?

I read that some states close to New York have police officers looking for New York license plates - I feel that is not an efficient method of use because I have many friends in the news business that work in West Virginia that still have license plates from Pennsylvania, Nebraska - wherever they worked most recently.

It's an interesting time for sure.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on March 30, 2020, 05:05:02 PM
https://www.kgns.tv/content/news/Texas-governor-restricts-travelers-from-coronavirus-hot-spots-569224891.html
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 31, 2020, 12:14:58 AM
Arizona has now joined the list of states with "stay at home orders" til 4/30.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on March 31, 2020, 05:00:38 PM
Arizona has now joined the list of states with "stay at home orders" til 4/30.
Good. You rowdies need to stay out there :-P
Seriously, I'm surprised Florida hasn't done it yet. The gov just doesn't want to.
All theme parks are closed. Beaches, boat ramps, bars, restaurants etc etc.
Working in Gainesville today the University of Florida campus is a ghost town. Kind of eerie really. He needs to pull the trigger for the month of April and then reassess.
 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on March 31, 2020, 05:13:59 PM
The EAS alert just went off on my phone.  The SF Bay Area Counties have extended the Shelter-in-Place Order with new restrictions through May 3, 2020.  https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/DiseaseInformation/novel-coronavirus/Pages/home.aspx and the order at https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/DiseaseInformation/novel-coronavirus/Pages/order-health-officer-033120.aspx

Santa Clara County is reporting 848 cases and 28 deaths as of 30-Mar-2020 2:30pm

The wife and I continue hunkering-down at home with electronic visits to friends/family via Facetime or Zoom.  Our two scheduled cruises (April and May) were cancelled by the cruise companies (good, as we got complete refunds).  Looks like we're settling in for an extended haul and wait for therapeutic treatments and vaccines for us high-risk older folks.

Be safe and healthy.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on March 31, 2020, 05:16:22 PM
Iowa continues to have problems in Linn County at a care facility .  The problem is that the Gov. Reynolds won't do a shelter in place order or even allow mayors of towns to have that authority.   
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: alanb on April 01, 2020, 01:39:00 PM
Iowa continues to have problems in Linn County at a care facility .  The problem is that the Gov. Reynolds won't do a shelter in place order or even allow mayors of towns to have that authority.
Yeah ... our Reynolds ... originally appointed rather than elected. And speaking of that, why do we never hear anything about our famous ambassador Branstad in China? He was silent even when the pandemic peaked in China.

Between Linn and Johnson counties, we now seem to be the epicenter in Iowa. I'm trying to do my part, but we still have to eat so I went to the grocery store today during the time reserved for old people like me. I have been trying to use Hy-Vee's online system for delivery or curbside pickup, but whenever I try every time slot is booked.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 01, 2020, 02:28:50 PM
Iowa continues to have problems in Linn County at a care facility .  The problem is that the Gov. Reynolds won't do a shelter in place order or even allow mayors of towns to have that authority.

What does shelter in place for everyone have to do with a care facility they have their own set of rules. My 84-year mother is going through this in Houston.


Restrict all volunteers and non-essential healthcare personnel (HCP), including non-essential healthcare personnel (e.g., barbers)
Cancel all group activities and communal dining
Implement active screening of residents and HCP for fever and respiratory symptoms


 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 01, 2020, 02:36:13 PM
Iowa continues to have problems in Linn County at a care facility .  The problem is that the Gov. Reynolds won't do a shelter in place order or even allow mayors of towns to have that authority.
Yeah ... our Reynolds ... originally appointed rather than elected. And speaking of that, why do we never hear anything about our famous ambassador Branstad in China? He was silent even when the pandemic peaked in China.

Between Linn and Johnson counties, we now seem to be the epicenter in Iowa. I'm trying to do my part, but we still have to eat so I went to the grocery store today during the time reserved for old people like me. I have been trying to use Hy-Vee's online system for delivery or curbside pickup, but whenever I try every time slot is booked.
I went online and did the order online with a pickup time from hyvee.  their system was having problems, but I got about a 2 week supply of food.  No TP.  I did offer the wife to hook up the garden hose and use it as a bidet for her should she get the need, she for some reason declined.   Yeah  Iowa is one of a few states that will not have the stay at home order although the death toll involved 1 in polk county.   I am tired of Reynolds and her damn metrics.  Didn't she just get her degree in college in adminstration?   I wish  someone would ask her at her dog and pony show briefing, "Is this how you want history to remember you as the gov who refused to grow a pair and order the state to have a stay at home, or at the very least authorize mayors to do that?"  And the Deputy Health bimbo, she always looks pissed off  like a kid who had a month to write the oral book report, forgot about it and now trying to make some thing up.   Anymore, I use multiple sources as the Register is worthless, but there is a page https://idph.iowa.gov/emerging-health-issues/novel-coronavirus (https://idph.iowa.gov/emerging-health-issues/novel-coronavirus) I can get more information, but yet not city by city.  I'd love to see the city, age, numbers with the virus, in the hospital, recovered .  But not the farm state.  I apologize, I am 72 and my wife is certain I am going to get this and die.   

I have asthma, high blood pressure and now type 2 diabetes. Oy vey   but I am optimistic.    I know if I get it what my last words will be..."I put the million dollars in cash in the...."
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on April 01, 2020, 04:01:35 PM
The gov must have read my post. Florida is now stay at home.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 01, 2020, 05:14:14 PM
Not sure how accurate this list is published on TV news station out of Florida. Looks less restrictive than what Nebraskans, at least my city, are already practicing without any need for a stay at home order.
All large gatherings including churches are voluntarily closed around here.

What you can do:
- Work from home
- Go to grocery store or pharmacy
- Attend religious services
- Participate in recreational activities (consistent with social distancing guidelines) such as walking, biking, hiking, fishing, hunting, running, or swimming
- Take care of pets
- Care for or assist a loved one or friend

Essential businesses include:
- Grocery stores
- Restaurant delivery and drive-thrus
- Airlines, taxis and other private transportation providers
- Gas stations
- Laundromats
- Veterinarian offices
- Businesses engaged in food cultivation, including farming, livestock, and fishing
- Businesses that provide shelter and social services
- Hardware and gardening stores
- Firearm and ammunition supply stores
- Newspaper, television, radio and other media services
- Businesses that provide food and shelter
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DRoberts on April 01, 2020, 05:21:10 PM
Iowa continues to have problems in Linn County at a care facility .  The problem is that the Gov. Reynolds won't do a shelter in place order or even allow mayors of towns to have that authority.
Yeah ... our Reynolds ... originally appointed rather than elected. And speaking of that, why do we never hear anything about our famous ambassador Branstad in China? He was silent even when the pandemic peaked in China.

Between Linn and Johnson counties, we now seem to be the epicenter in Iowa. I'm trying to do my part, but we still have to eat so I went to the grocery store today during the time reserved for old people like me. I have been trying to use Hy-Vee's online system for delivery or curbside pickup, but whenever I try every time slot is booked.
I went online and did the order online with a pickup time from hyvee.  their system was having problems, but I got about a 2 week supply of food.  No TP.  I did offer the wife to hook up the garden hose and use it as a bidet for her should she get the need, she for some reason declined.   Yeah  Iowa is one of a few states that will not have the stay at home order although the death toll involved 1 in polk county.   I am tired of Reynolds and her damn metrics.  Didn't she just get her degree in college in adminstration?   I wish  someone would ask her at her dog and pony show briefing, "Is this how you want history to remember you as the gov who refused to grow a pair and order the state to have a stay at home, or at the very least authorize mayors to do that?"  And the Deputy Health bimbo, she always looks pissed off  like a kid who had a month to write the oral book report, forgot about it and now trying to make some thing up.   Anymore, I use multiple sources as the Register is worthless, but there is a page https://idph.iowa.gov/emerging-health-issues/novel-coronavirus (https://idph.iowa.gov/emerging-health-issues/novel-coronavirus) I can get more information, but yet not city by city.  I'd love to see the city, age, numbers with the virus, in the hospital, recovered .  But not the farm state.  I apologize, I am 72 and my wife is certain I am going to get this and die.

I can feel the frustration. Sorry. My wife has a pre-existing respiratory condition and I think she feels same as your wife does. Right now, she is busily working to complete "make at home masks" on her sewing machine. We are pretty rural here. If this stuff hit our health care system, we could be overwhelmed quickly. I'm nearly 74. Don't apologize. I have to credit our governor for shutting schools first in the nation and issuing shelter in place this past weekend. She has taken a lot of heat for it in Kansas from a vocal minority.

I hope you stay safe and healthy. I enjoy your posts on here.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 01, 2020, 07:05:34 PM
I had no idea the shelter in place was this widespread.
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Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 02, 2020, 12:06:14 AM
To update Oklahoma, Gov. Stitt on Wednesday extended his executive order to include the remaining counties that don't have any COVID-19 positive cases.  Stitt's order includes closure of all non-essential businesses and prohibits gatherings of 10 or more people.   With more testing made available, it's highly likely Oklahoma cases will surpass 1000 in a day or two.  The Gov. is hopeful the state has enough ventilators for the April peak.

Meanwhile, my local Wal-Mart just said, "At this time we want to inform our customers that we will only be opening our grocery side doors during operating hours. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and appreciate your understanding and cooperation."

So far, don't know if the Wal-Mart on the opposite side of town will do likewise. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: AWL on April 02, 2020, 06:38:46 AM
Still not enough test kits in Oklahoma. Read the state had to purchase 11,000 kits last Thursday. Opening a drive thru testing site in Ardmore today. Only for those showing symptoms.


The Carter County Health Department will be conducting a regional testing drive-thru location on Thursday, April 2, 2020 at the Ardmore Convention Center located at 2401 N. Rockford Road, Ardmore, OK. The drive-thru times are 10:00 am to 3:00 pm, or while supplies last. The tests are free and people must meet all of the following criteria for testing:

Only 150 kits on site.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 02, 2020, 07:07:41 AM
Only people showing symptoms are getting tested being their are 330 million people.  Wish they would include those with known exposure so to get as many asymptomatic people as possible in quarantine.
 
I can't wait for the antibody test. Many here think it may have came through due to an unusual rash of mysterious cases of pneumonia back in January. I've heard from a source that works at the hospital they suspect these were COVID19 cases. One was a whole family of 4 all tested negative for influenza showed same symptoms. Two of those were ill enough they got hospitalized but no testing was available to confirm.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on April 02, 2020, 07:15:35 AM
The talking heads on this morning's NYC local TV news reported that EMS workers have been told that cardiac arrest patients should be hit with the paddles.  If that doesn't bring them back, just declare them dead.  Do not administer CPR, do not transport to the hospital.

If you're healthy and you know it, wash your hands!!!!!

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 02, 2020, 10:32:37 AM
I had no idea the shelter in place was this widespread.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Notice Iowa still refuses. Why?  The leaders are mentally deficient and have no , well you know.   I see groups of people riding their bicycles and they do not look related.  The golf course (waveland) was packed with so many duffers that I am certain they have had some golf course collisions and the parking lot over flowing.  Then there is us. My wife working on teaching her online writing classes 20 hours a day most of the time, on 4 hours sleep, taking care of me, the dog, worrying about everything.  US trying to stay at home and not venture out , except to the grocery , and trying to let them fill our grocery list and pick the stuff up later.   I have washed my hands with so much foaming soap, that when I pee  I clean the bowl.   And yet, Iowa is still stuck in the mud of time, assuming that the entire population will do the right thing.  I am about to the point of screaming out loud if Gov. Reynolds and her blonde side kick once more says, "we are looking at the metrics,"  rather than say, "I am issuing a stay at home order now."
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Mabcmb on April 02, 2020, 11:13:18 AM
Unbelievable !!!  " Georgia’s Governor Brian Kemp gave a press conference on Wednesday, announcing a new shelter-in-place order that’s been long overdue. But Kemp also admitted something that should terrify every person living in and around Georgia: Kemp claims he didn’t know until this week that the new coronavirus could be spread by people who aren’t showing symptoms of covid-19."   https://gizmodo.com/georgias-idiot-governor-says-he-didnt-know-people-could-1842636191
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on April 02, 2020, 11:20:57 AM
I saw that Florida has issued shelter-in-place orders now.  Oddly enough, it classified religious gatherings as essential and exempted from the order.  Other states who were late in issuing orders found that religious gatherings spread the virus rapidly.  We in California have been doing services online only since March 17th -- it's not quite the same as in-person, but is a fair substitute to keep down the spread of the virus.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 02, 2020, 12:21:05 PM
I think that's a mistake not including religious gatherings.  It looks rather hoaky allowing religion to be an exception.
Criticism deserved IMO. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 02, 2020, 02:42:13 PM
Still not enough test kits in Oklahoma. Read the state had to purchase 11,000 kits last Thursday. Opening a drive thru testing site in Ardmore today. Only for those showing symptoms.


The Carter County Health Department will be conducting a regional testing drive-thru location on Thursday, April 2, 2020 at the Ardmore Convention Center located at 2401 N. Rockford Road, Ardmore, OK. The drive-thru times are 10:00 am to 3:00 pm, or while supplies last. The tests are free and people must meet all of the following criteria for testing:

Only 150 kits on site.

The Oklahoma Animal Disease Diagnostics Laboratory at OSU in Stillwater got certified by the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services to run tests for COVID-19 to determine results.  Formerly tests taken were being sent out of state to obtain results:   https://www.ocolly.com/news/osu-diagnostic-lab-joins-battle-against-covid-19/article_efb243ea-73a2-11ea-b894-cfa32a3305fe.html (https://www.ocolly.com/news/osu-diagnostic-lab-joins-battle-against-covid-19/article_efb243ea-73a2-11ea-b894-cfa32a3305fe.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 02, 2020, 03:10:56 PM
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/health/2020/04/02/shelter-in-place-iowa-covid-19-benchmark-guidance-tool-waits-for-hospitalization-outbreaks/5111747002/ (https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/health/2020/04/02/shelter-in-place-iowa-covid-19-benchmark-guidance-tool-waits-for-hospitalization-outbreaks/5111747002/)

This is the benchmark, released today by someone who also is irritated, why Iowa isn't doing what everyone has figured out.  Essentially when more of the older population dies, then she will do something.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on April 02, 2020, 03:17:02 PM
I'm not saying it is right or wrong...but I think that Florida is trying to stay out of legal trouble with the religious gatherings because of separation of church and state. I'm no legal expert. Just sharing what some other people are thinking.

Where I live in Florida even though the governor finally acted to place this shelter at home order, everyone I've spoken to was already sheltering in place and the roads have been empty for a long time. I've only seen it because of the bicycle rides I have been enjoying. 5 PM rush hour feels 3 AM.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 02, 2020, 03:27:33 PM
I'm not saying it is right or wrong...but I think that Florida is trying to stay out of legal trouble with the religious gatherings because of separation of church and state. I'm no legal expert. Just sharing what some other people are thinking.

Where I live in Florida even though the governor finally acted to place this shelter at home order, everyone I've spoken to was already sheltering in place and the roads have been empty for a long time. I've only seen it because of the bicycle rides I have been enjoying. 5 PM rush hour feels 3 AM.

However, you still can have church services and those crowds will spread it further.   You know you can, like the rest of us, pray at home and frequently.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on April 02, 2020, 03:38:29 PM
I'm not saying it is right or wrong...but I think that Florida is trying to stay out of legal trouble with the religious gatherings because of separation of church and state. I'm no legal expert. Just sharing what some other people are thinking.

Where I live in Florida even though the governor finally acted to place this shelter at home order, everyone I've spoken to was already sheltering in place and the roads have been empty for a long time. I've only seen it because of the bicycle rides I have been enjoying. 5 PM rush hour feels 3 AM.

However, you still can have church services and those crowds will spread it further.   You know you can, like the rest of us, pray at home and frequently.
Exactly!
Pray at home, your back yard, in the woods, online etc.
Church is just bricks and mortar for like minds.
What do these people not understand??
The ignorance in this country is really rearing it's ugly head. :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on April 02, 2020, 03:58:31 PM
Oddly enough, it classified religious gatherings as essential and exempted from the order.  Other states who were late in issuing orders found that religious gatherings spread the virus rapidly.

Here in NY State, our very first case (that later evolved into a cluster and later a containment zone enforced by the National Guard) started at a religious gathering!

Without going into religious details, there is a similar high-density religious community near me that allegedly accounts for over half of our county's 2,000+ confirmed cases and 30 deaths.  The County Executive asked the Governor to declare this town as a cluster/hotspot, and enforce a quarantine on them as well.  The Governor refused to do anything beyond the ongoing "New York on PAUSE" stuff that applies across the state.....
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 02, 2020, 04:47:17 PM
I'm not saying it is right or wrong...but I think that Florida is trying to stay out of legal trouble with the religious gatherings because of separation of church and state. I'm no legal expert. Just sharing what some other people are thinking.

Where I live in Florida even though the governor finally acted to place this shelter at home order, everyone I've spoken to was already sheltering in place and the roads have been empty for a long time. I've only seen it because of the bicycle rides I have been enjoying. 5 PM rush hour feels 3 AM.

Bet you're right. We have no such order and the last thing you would see are church gatherings. In fact they were the first to cancel 5 weeks ago well before schools closed. So likely done to avoid multitudes of lawsuits.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 02, 2020, 09:52:53 PM
....an unusual rash of mysterious cases of pneumonia back in January....
It just clicked in a week or so ago. My wife's sister and husband came back from Dominican through Florida and Up-State NY, then by car into Canada. Third or fourth week of January.

A few days later she got ALL the classic symptoms: dry painful cough, fever, aches, headache, tired, short of breath, really short of breath, lost smell and taste.......they said pneumonia????......Antibiotics did nothing. Went on for two weeks. A few days after her husband got sick with carbon copy very, very, light symptoms.

Never connected the dots at the time. She's very fortunate.

It's been three weeks since I had contact with their mother who had contact with her a week before that. So like two week gap from her recovery to contact with mother.

What if the contacts were a bit sooner.......I might be in the throes of it right now........or worse.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on April 03, 2020, 03:31:34 PM
Reality check.
Lost my job today.
 :sad:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Farmtalk on April 03, 2020, 03:51:32 PM
Reality check.
Lost my job today.
 :sad:

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear that. Thoughts and prayers pal. Keep your head up!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on April 03, 2020, 04:05:25 PM
Reality check.
Lost my job today.
 :sad:

Really sorry to hear that. What was your job? But keep that private if you want. Up to you if you want to share what you do as it never hurts to network with groups of people to see where the next job opportunity may come from.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DRoberts on April 03, 2020, 05:27:27 PM
Very sorry to hear, Ocala
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on April 03, 2020, 06:19:16 PM
I'm not saying it is right or wrong...but I think that Florida is trying to stay out of legal trouble with the religious gatherings because of separation of church and state. I'm no legal expert. Just sharing what some other people are thinking.


I'm speachless. Why is it always Florida???
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/3/florida-county-declares-churches-essential-service/

A Florida county has aided a pastor who held worship in defiance of “safer-at-home” rules by declaring religious services to be “essential services” during the coronavirus pandemic.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 03, 2020, 09:38:45 PM
I'm not saying it is right or wrong...but I think that Florida is trying to stay out of legal trouble with the religious gatherings because of separation of church and state. I'm no legal expert. Just sharing what some other people are thinking.


I'm speachless. Why is it always Florida???
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/3/florida-county-declares-churches-essential-service/

A Florida county has aided a pastor who held worship in defiance of “safer-at-home” rules by declaring religious services to be “essential services” during the coronavirus pandemic.

I wonder if the preacher will consider it quite essential for church attendees to wear masks and/or everybody to stay at least 6 ft. apart?  Will the choir have to sing?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 04, 2020, 01:18:02 AM
Great.  My county is offering FREE drive by curbside tests if certain conditions are met:

The Payne County Health Department has announced curbside COVID-19 testing will be available – by appointment only – beginning April 6 at the Payne County Health Department building, 1321 West 7th, Stillwater, while supplies are available.

The Payne County Health Department encourages those individuals 18 years and older who are experiencing a fever of 100.4 or higher, cough, or shortness of breath to contact the Payne County Health Department at 405-372-8200 to reserve an appointment. Testing is free and does not require insurance. Instructions for utilizing the curbside testing service will be provided at the time the appointment is made.

A physician’s order is not needed in order to be tested through the Health Department’s curbside testing option. However, PCHD does encourage established patients seeking testing to contact their primary care provider.

Please remember COVID-19 testing at the Payne County Health Department is being done curbside, by appointment only. Individuals are asked to remain in their vehicle at all times.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bushman on April 04, 2020, 06:08:14 PM
Reality check.
Lost my job today.
 :sad:

Well that sucks.  I am sitting at home when I was supposed to get a lucrative contract overseas.  Wife (medical professional!) got notice that office is closed so we are sitting around waiting for spring.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on April 05, 2020, 09:02:32 AM
Can anyone fathom the evacuation repercussions if COVID-geddon lockdowns continue into the east coast hurricane season?????
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on April 05, 2020, 10:08:37 AM
Can anyone fathom the evacuation repercussions if COVID-geddon lockdowns continue into the east coast hurricane season?????

One would hope planning for that eventuality (the season is forecast to be active) is happening. But given that several of the coastal states that would be most affected are way behind the curve on their initial response, I doubt that's the case.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 05, 2020, 10:42:53 AM
Think times are tough it could be much worse. Yellowstone  :-(

On the positive side, this virus is making me want to prep more and changed my thinking about certain things.


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 05, 2020, 12:43:55 PM
 
Dr. Fauci is supposed to be THE virus expert.  Numero Uno.  And yet, prediction after prediction has failed, and now he tells us on the Sunday shows, models don't even work.

The man is a big pharm puppet and a clown.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on April 05, 2020, 01:21:24 PM
Randy I look at from a mets point of view. All the models say this and the weather does something else.
This virus is no different. Since it's new to humans we can only speculate until we get more data.
There's really no play book to go by. Just seat of your pants. :-|
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 05, 2020, 01:36:47 PM
I'm beginning to think we've been hoodwinked. Some areas have a flat curve because it's over.

This goes along with what health workers and others are saying here in Valentine and down in North Platte some talking back and forth on FB. 

Mysterious flu with negative influenza results causing pneumonia came though hitting the community hard .  Yes, we did have more than normal elderly deaths caused by pneumonia this year and several that barely pulled through. 



Funny how CDC comes out and wants every death considered COVID19 even without a positive result.

From CDC Website: Hospitals to List COVID-19 as Cause of Death Even if It's "Assumed to Have Caused Or Contributed to Death" - Lab Tests Not Required


https://medium.com/morozko-method/the-curve-is-already-flat-2de80eed1bd0
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on April 05, 2020, 03:44:21 PM
Some areas may have a 'flat curve' due to insufficient testing availability.  In California, the test are ramping up slowly.  I hardly think that is 'being hoodwinked'.

What we do know based on the experiences:
1) the novel caronavirus can infect everyone since it's 'novel' -- our immune systems haven't seen it before, so we're susceptible.
2) some people can fight off the symptoms better than others who may have diminished immune systems due to chronic/pre-existing conditions or age.
3) people who feel no symptoms can be carriers/spreaders of the virus to others.
4) severe cases usually have pulmonary function collapse and need oxygen/ventilator support.  In some cases, the immune system becomes hyperactive while fighting the virus and causes organ disfunction/failure that can lead to death.

As a percentage of population, the USA is well behind testing numbers for other countries (as of 5-Apr-2020) .. until more testing is completed, we won't have a better picture.

Models are not 'cast in stone', but based on the available evidence at the time and offer guidance to the epidemiologists for their recommendations.  I, for one, respect the guidance by the medical professionals and treat others with an increasingly large grain-of-salt.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 05, 2020, 11:56:23 PM
Iowa still doesn't have a stay at home order. Governor Reynolds,  a Republican, doesn't think we need it. That Iowans are doing the right thing.  this picture was taken on April 4th downtown.  She is an idiot.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 06, 2020, 05:26:13 AM
Evidence from China  "The researchers concluded that “blood group A had a significantly higher risk for COVID-19 compared with non-A blood groups. Whereas blood group O had a significantly lower risk for the infectious disease compared with non-A blood groups.”
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on April 06, 2020, 07:17:47 AM
Iowa still doesn't have a stay at home order. Governor Reynolds,  a Republican, doesn't think we need it. That Iowans are doing the right thing.  this picture was taken on April 4th downtown.  She is an idiot.
By any reasonable standard, it isn't the governor who is the idiot!  It looks like Idiots Out Wandering Around (IOWAns) are the idiots.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 06, 2020, 07:39:57 AM
Iowa still doesn't have a stay at home order. Governor Reynolds,  a Republican, doesn't think we need it. That Iowans are doing the right thing.  this picture was taken on April 4th downtown.  She is an idiot.
By any reasonable standard, it isn't the governor who is the idiot!  It looks like Idiots Out Wandering Around (IOWAns) are the idiots.
[tup]

Watching the news this morning a doctor said the go-to medicine many hospitals in NY are using is vitamin C so found this article. Not a sexy new found drug so you don't hear much about it.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/new-york-hospitals-treating-coronavirus-patients-with-vitamin-c/?utm_source=url_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on April 06, 2020, 07:51:08 AM
Iowa still doesn't have a stay at home order. Governor Reynolds,  a Republican, doesn't think we need it. That Iowans are doing the right thing.  this picture was taken on April 4th downtown.  She is an idiot.
By any reasonable standard, it isn't the governor who is the idiot!  It looks like Idiots Out Wandering Around (IOWAns) are the idiots.
That is a great acronym. :-)
Nothing against the good people of Iowa who are doing the right thing.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on April 06, 2020, 07:53:25 AM
Been trying for  3 days to apply for unemployment.
System keeps crashing. ](*,)
Oh well, have nothing but time on my hands.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 06, 2020, 05:17:07 PM
Guthrie, a town between me and Oklahoma City, in an unanimous decision decided to mandate wearing face masks for those venturing outside their homes. https://guthrienewspage.com/city-of-guthrie-issues-shelter-in-place-face-masks-now-mandatory/?fbclid=IwAR23EdOs0IpkdmDB49chHYSoAIXt7hbIzbzqjfDYOF9RTk80BgceIgex3KE (https://guthrienewspage.com/city-of-guthrie-issues-shelter-in-place-face-masks-now-mandatory/?fbclid=IwAR23EdOs0IpkdmDB49chHYSoAIXt7hbIzbzqjfDYOF9RTk80BgceIgex3KE)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 06, 2020, 06:28:29 PM
Iowa still doesn't have a stay at home order. Governor Reynolds,  a Republican, doesn't think we need it. That Iowans are doing the right thing.  this picture was taken on April 4th downtown.  She is an idiot.

Sac and Calhoun counties still do not have any known cases.  My wife does not want us to move back to the farm.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 06, 2020, 07:38:38 PM
This may be old news for most: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has been moved to ICU. 
Hoping for the best.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on April 07, 2020, 09:13:32 AM
At last, something truly useful from one of UKs major supermarkets ..

NHS = National Health Service
Nightingale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Nightingale) = generic name being given to emergency Intensive Care hospitals being built in exhibition halls etc.

Quote from: Tesco
...
Yesterday we confirmed that we’re the retail partner of SalutetheNHS.org which will provide one million free meal parcels to frontline NHS workers. We’ll donate all the food and ingredients used in the production of these food parcels.

Also yesterday, we began work on our first dedicated NHS Nightingale Hospital pop-up store, at the NEC in Birmingham. We’ll provide NHS staff with on-site 24-hour access to the food and household products they need.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on April 07, 2020, 09:36:20 AM
Guthrie, a town between me and Oklahoma City, in an unanimous decision decided to mandate wearing face masks for those venturing outside their homes. https://guthrienewspage.com/city-of-guthrie-issues-shelter-in-place-face-masks-now-mandatory/?fbclid=IwAR23EdOs0IpkdmDB49chHYSoAIXt7hbIzbzqjfDYOF9RTk80BgceIgex3KE (https://guthrienewspage.com/city-of-guthrie-issues-shelter-in-place-face-masks-now-mandatory/?fbclid=IwAR23EdOs0IpkdmDB49chHYSoAIXt7hbIzbzqjfDYOF9RTk80BgceIgex3KE)

good its a positive move , its mandatory here in turkey and it is now illegal to sell masks at inflated prices , sell masks from unauthorized outlets .also we simply go online fill in a simple form from a government run site with our citizen id number and receive 5 free masks per individual once used go online and repeat process and another 5 are delivered . there are also local municipality staff handing out free masks all over the city . deliveries these are arranged and delivered through the local municipality postal services so your requests is dealt with locally.

we also have tight restrictions on traveling from one city to another or region(state) all traveling must be authorized and be essential as per guidelines issued ,so food,fuel and other essentials still flow . other restrictions if you are aged below 20 your not permitted to leave home , if you are over 65 you are not permitted to leave home . again local municipalities provide food deliveries,medication,pensions,to those over 65 or with disabilities.

there are many other beneficial small ideas that have materialized, we have a simple app if you need a small amount of grocery like coffee,tea,milk,bread,cigarettes etc it connects you to a store within a few km and delivered within 30 minutes on average and of course online food shopping for large amounts is around 3-4 days from the larger stores..

we have been in admiration of how these things have materialized has they have all been beneficial to the everyday folk whilst adapting to the stay at home.. we do not have an 100% lockdown however that maybe imminent but I think in general here in istanbul we have adapted with the help of municipalities. 

forgot too add its not all about online each service as telephone number to order through if those not familiar or do not have internet..brian
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on April 07, 2020, 10:07:01 AM
At last, something truly useful from one of UKs major supermarkets ..

Which supermarket? Just curious as the person who did the shopping there when we visited.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 07, 2020, 11:04:54 AM
Iowa has almost a Stay in Place order.  Many who are disagreeing, and saying they are not going to do this, risk the fines, etc.    Of course golf courses and live stock auctions still are going on.   

Temperature to be near 80F today, the sun just breaking through the clouds.   The rest of the week back into the 50s but if the sun comes out, then I can hang on.  We are isolated as much as we can.   I have to hold out .  I put on the calendar for June, to have someone come out and replace our thermostat with something that we can actually maneuver . My worry is that if I die, my wife has to be able to adjust the temperature.  of course I plan on getting the 15 years more.

Be safe.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on April 07, 2020, 11:14:44 AM
@ Jasiu

"Quote from Tesco" - big hint  ;)

Must point out the meal parcels is not their initiative, nor are they the sole supplier of food. There are many large and small retailers, restaurant suppliers, logistics, etc. etc. who are involved and keeping their re-purposed businesses running with skeleton staff in the process.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on April 07, 2020, 11:41:19 AM
@ Jasiu

"Quote from Tesco" - big hint  ;)

LOL.  I'm a few hours behind on the caffeine consumption here. Figured it was them or Sainsbury.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on April 07, 2020, 02:15:42 PM
I thought that Tesco operates horse stables?????  :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 07, 2020, 04:07:51 PM
Anyone hearing about this disease as more like high altitude sickness? There was a Florida doctor talking about it the other day on TV and was worried the ventilators are being used wrong and damaging lungs.
Now I've just watched a NY doctor on Youtube also say something similar. Problem with the video some woman at the end edited into video comes on talking a bunch of BS about 60 Ghz so I won't link the video. I was interested in what the doctor had to say though.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bushman on April 07, 2020, 06:49:28 PM
Interesting hypothesis on High Altitude Pulmonary Edema.  Hmmm...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: wxthomson on April 07, 2020, 09:16:02 PM
Since I've had some extra time lately I've been doing a lot of reading.
I just finished a book, "The Splendid and the Vile" by Erik Larson

He writes about the leadership of Winston Churchill during the early days of WWII (1940-41).

45,000 people died in the nightly German bombings that went on for weeks and a like number were seriously injured. They were expecting a land invasion at any time.
Churchill was able to guide the people by straight talk, honesty, and convincing them that he was one of them and that no matter how bad things got he was with them to fight it through to the bitter end.

It made me think about how important good strong leadership is to a nation going through a crisis.

So if you find you have time on your hands I highly recommend it.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on April 07, 2020, 10:47:40 PM
A rather damning report on the impact of pollution and the greatly increased lung problems for Covid 19 sufferers, based on a US study ..

 https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/07/air-pollution-linked-to-far-higher-covid-19-death-rates-study-finds
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 08, 2020, 02:51:33 AM


It made me think about how important good strong leadership is to a nation going through a crisis.



Yes, and we have a great one now. We will get through this and come out stronger and greater as a nation.

What I've learned through all this is just how important borders are and how dependent we have allowed ourselves to become on others. This must never happen again.

My advice to these weak-kneed bureaucrats more worried about offending someone because of skin color if another virus outbreak happens wherever this nation has to go on lockdown to travelers from the rest of the world now, not tomorrow.

We cannot rely on WHO or others to be telling the truth about the severity of an outbreak. This can never be allowed to happen again.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on April 08, 2020, 08:29:12 AM

Yes, and we have a great one now. We will get through this and come out stronger and greater as a nation.


If criticizing the leadership is a political post, so is this.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on April 08, 2020, 10:15:59 AM
Well, lets see:  We have politics and climate change in this thread.  Anyone want to try for the trifecta and add religion? :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on April 08, 2020, 10:21:36 AM
Well I think someone has noted the issue of churches still in session, so we're there already, no??

 :grin:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on April 08, 2020, 10:27:51 AM
Well I think someone has noted the issue of churches still in session, so we're there already, no??

 :grin:
Ok, Ok.  I dismissed that as an argument over the right of assembly, but your point is well taken. :oops:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 08, 2020, 10:48:24 AM
Yeah and take note who started every one of them.  :evil:  I'm fine let's leave politics and religion totally out. But don't expect crickets if you want to bring politics into it. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 08, 2020, 11:19:45 AM
In the USA, we can assign blame to our elected or appointed officials when we have got through to whatever our new normal is.  November we can elect a different president, or keep the present one in office. We can keep or replace senators, representatives, governors, and all those folks later.  We will hopefully have 4 years to have new trials, witch hunts, Easter egg hunts, where did I put my glasses hunts.   Right how however, isn't the time for this.  We can go after religious zealots who were so wrong in their guidance to their flocks.   

What we can do is look out for each other, offer advice, protect those who have no protection.  We can urge family, friends, and the A$$hat down the block to shelter in place, just a little longer, until those infected develop the disease and hopefully recover, to realize stopping the spread is the key here, until those infected either survive or not. I know it sounds cruel.

We can do what we can to help everyone including ourselves during these times. Write a book, a screen play, develop online classes, code software for the mac weather , or for the PC.   Tweak the weather equipment, all of those things we normally do not have any time for.   Plan for the future, make the neighbors really wonder what we are up to with our weather things.

We are all up to this, but assigning blame (and I am one who does that),  we have Election day.

Now, pour yourself a cup of your favorite, kick off your shoes, sit a spell.  Just plan to make it through this , no matter how long it takes.   

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 08, 2020, 11:31:23 AM
It is a little tiresome that people can come on here and attack politicians while pointedly pointing out their political party, attack the "farm state" (when it's very doubtful that the Idiots Out Walking Around  :lol: were farmers).  People from within and outside our nation can question our leadership while we're not supposed to respond because conservatism and patriotism are political.  People are accused of denigrating others while falsely being called "xenophobic" and such.

Someone can quote someone's comments, and when those comments aren't viewed in the context they were written in, the admin suddenly sees them as unacceptable and threatens to ban the one who wrote them, when he didn't see any problem with them before.  Then the person who dutifully reported the posts he didn't like because they were political then brings up politics.  :?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 08, 2020, 11:34:56 AM
It is a little tiresome that people can come on here and attack politicians while pointedly pointing out their political party, attack the "farm state" (when it's very doubtful that the Idiots Out Walking Around  :lol: were farmers).  People from within and outside our nation can question our leadership while we're not supposed to respond because conservatism and patriotism are political.  People are accused of denigrating others while falsely being called "xenophobic" and such.

Someone can quote someone's comments, and when those comments aren't viewed in the context they were written in, the admin suddenly sees them as unacceptable and threatens to ban the one who wrote them, when he didn't see any problem with them before.  Then the person who dutifully reported the posts he didn't like because they were political then brings up politics.  :?

Ditto  [tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 08, 2020, 11:43:09 AM
  We can go after religious zealots who were so wrong in their guidance to their flocks.   

 

And it continues because its okay to bash religion as long as its conservatives, and not Islam God forbid. 
Oh and I'm not religious. But this is not okay.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 08, 2020, 12:25:40 PM
then let's have a little humor.

First-just want to say with the school year I was having-this was the best thing to happen to me. I have the worst class I have ever had. 28 years.

I make lessons-post them at 7:30.
Drink coffee. Also changed to Mt Dew Zero.
walk on the tread mill (new for me)
eat breakfast
check in a few times
I am working about a week ahead of time so I am ready. My associate teacher and I are sharing jobs. No stress.

I am going to link some things from another forum I am on-with the attempt at humor.
Remember-I teach 8th grade

Quote
"Half of us are going to come out of this quarantine as amazing cooks. The other half will come out with a drinking problem.

I used to spin that toilet paper like I was on Wheel of Fortune. Now I turn it like I'm cracking a safe.

I need to practice social-distancing from the refrigerator.

Still haven't decided where to go for Easter ----- The Living Room or The Bedroom

PSA: every few days try your jeans on just to make sure they fit. Pajamas will have you believe all is well in the kingdom.

Home-schooling is going well. 2 students suspended for fighting and 1 teacher fired for drinking on the job.

I don't think anyone expected that when we changed the clocks we'd go from Standard Time to the Twilight Zone

This morning I saw a neighbor talking to her cat. It was obvious she thought her cat understood her. I came into my house, told my dog..... we laughed a lot.

So, after this quarantine.....will the producers of My 600 Pound Life just find me or do I find them?

Quarantine Day 5: Went to this restaurant called THE KITCHEN. You have to gather all the ingredients and make your own meal. I have no clue how this place is still in business.

My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.

Day 5 of Homeschooling: One of these little monsters called in a bomb threat.

I'm so excited --- it's time to take out the garbage. What should I wear?

I hope the weather is good tomorrow for my trip to ‘’Puerto Backyarda’’. I'm getting tired of ‘’Los Livingroom’’.

Classified Ad: Single man with toilet paper seeks woman with hand sanitizer for good clean fun.

Day 6 of Homeschooling: My child just said "I hope I don't have the same teacher next year".... I'm offended.

Better 6 feet apart than 6 feet under…."


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 08, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/92310473_2595858194017092_3185629169597808640_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8024bb&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=tm4jO4J0fTcAX96PYgi&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&_nc_tp=14&oh=f57b26e8a3039f0f0fddd0f2722365de&oe=5EB43CFA)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 08, 2020, 12:27:42 PM
https://youtu.be/ojrtwXqqc6g

https://youtu.be/M5azNpTwVk8
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 08, 2020, 12:29:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cnomqNf.jpg)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 08, 2020, 12:30:00 PM
(https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aZ75r1V_700b.jpg)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: tbrasel on April 08, 2020, 01:05:42 PM
It is a little tiresome that people can come on here and attack politicians while pointedly pointing out their political party, attack the "farm state" (when it's very doubtful that the Idiots Out Walking Around  :lol: were farmers).  People from within and outside our nation can question our leadership while we're not supposed to respond because conservatism and patriotism are political.  People are accused of denigrating others while falsely being called "xenophobic" and such.

Someone can quote someone's comments, and when those comments aren't viewed in the context they were written in, the admin suddenly sees them as unacceptable and threatens to ban the one who wrote them, when he didn't see any problem with them before.  Then the person who dutifully reported the posts he didn't like because they were political then brings up politics.  :?

Ditto  [tup]

Ditto head 2  [tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 08, 2020, 02:04:59 PM
[img][/imhttps://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90357537_10218490679193085_6248737031208304640_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_oc=AQnA5656Fsu8SiZjcukfUOEYql43KnOrkgEjjigFeMfRaB8S2fbMi6rTsfzSxjr1ig4&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-1.fna&oh=d18ddba62a24ff2ece1985a6c49175cf&oe=5EB2AF19g]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 08, 2020, 05:25:14 PM
Does anyone else have an issue with this?
In NY heart attacks deaths are way down, wonder why?
 
This came out 6 days ago a directive from CDC to list suspected deaths as COVID19.

Straight from CDC website:
In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot
be made, but suspected or likely it
is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as
“probable” or “presumed.”

It does say to later test when time permitted for covid19 virus but results for a correction could come months from now.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on April 08, 2020, 05:58:59 PM
The CDC statement will based upon https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/cardiac-calls-911-new-york-city-surge-they-may-really-n1179286
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on April 10, 2020, 05:07:40 PM
Since I been out of work I've keeping busy with stuff around the house.
Took today off. Felt good.
Watched 4 movies which is  huge for me cause I watch about 1 movie a year.
Monty Python and the Holy Grail
Major League
Blazing Saddles
Bat 21.
Putting together another 4 for the weekend.
Ok, back to my boring furlough.  :sad:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 11, 2020, 01:59:43 PM
Iowa is to get snow as I am guessing Minnesota  .   Supposedly less toward the South tier of counties.  Then cold at night. My fruit trees are just breaking bud, hopefully those who have not will be safe.   
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 14, 2020, 10:22:46 PM
Officials in my county are hopeful for the future. No deaths, so far. From newspaper story:

"Payne County officials are encouraged by the public’s cooperation in taking steps to slow the spread of COVID-19 and are optimistic as the projected peak for hospitalizations and deaths in Oklahoma approaches.

The state's peak has been projected for some time next week, although the date varies from model to model.

As of Tuesday, the Oklahoma State Department of Health reported 2,184 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the state and 108 total deaths related to the virus.

Payne County Commissioner Chris Reding noted Monday that the 28 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Payne County remained low considering the population of the county.

“Citizens are practicing good habits – we are seeing a lot more masks in use in public and it looks like the numbers are peaking and getting ready to trend down,” Reding said.“I want to encourage the citizens of Payne County to keep up the good work.”

Reding said he’s hopeful things can start to “open up” by the end of the month.

Emergency Management Director Jeff Kuhn echoed Reding’s comments and noted that Payne County had not yet suffered a death from the virus."
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Farmtalk on April 14, 2020, 11:31:05 PM
Harvard researchers are saying that some social distancing may need to continue through 2022....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-14/harvard-researchers-say-some-distancing-may-be-needed-into-2022?utm_medium=social&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 14, 2020, 11:49:47 PM
Harvard researchers are saying that some social distancing may need to continue through 2022....
Never happen. Either we start back to "normal" in the near future and it will kill us all via the virus itself or lack of feeding the masses. This is getting ridiculous.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 15, 2020, 03:39:26 AM
Just looking at the source says it all. Cheerleaders to keep the economy shutdown through November. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 15, 2020, 04:02:27 AM
Just looking at the source says it all. Cheerleaders to keep the economy shutdown through November.
Yes.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bushman on April 15, 2020, 12:02:09 PM
Just looking at the source says it all. Cheerleaders to keep the economy shutdown through November.

So Harvard is going to stay closed to students for 2+ years?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 15, 2020, 12:55:10 PM
Just looking at the source says it all. Cheerleaders to keep the economy shutdown through November.

So Harvard is going to stay closed to students for 2+ years?

My best guess we should have a vaccine well before 2 years maybe even this fall.
We could roll right now in parts of Nebraska with many businesses taking precautions of course with the vulnerable.
This won't be easy for sure but it has to be done. We will not survive shut down much longer. Throwing money at it won't stop a total disaster of business collapses nationwide on a scale we haven't seen. Permanent unemployment for millions. I expect inside of 4 weeks to see some Governors moving to reopen certain areas even before the June date. Once parts of the economy start opening it will be a snowball effect.  Hard hit areas like NYC may not get open for some time and may even have to wait for a vaccine. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: AWL on April 15, 2020, 02:58:39 PM

My best guess we should have a vaccine well before 2 years maybe even this fall.
We could roll right now in parts of Nebraska with many businesses taking precautions of course with the vulnerable.
This won't be easy for sure but it has to be done. We will not survive shut down much longer. Throwing money at it won't stop a total disaster of business collapses nationwide on a scale we haven't seen. Permanent unemployment for millions. I expect inside of 4 weeks to see some Governors moving to reopen certain areas even before the June date. Once parts of the economy start opening it will be a snowball effect.  Hard hit areas like NYC may not get open for some time and may even have to wait for a vaccine.


Yepp. Those that push for this shutdown to go on for months might should imagine themselves and their family standing in line at a soup kitchen waiting for a meal.... Could get really ugly.


Doug
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on April 15, 2020, 05:14:44 PM
Interesting times .... and the resourcefulness of mankind.

In 100hr the University College of London Hospital and Mercedes F1 have redesigned, manufactured and tested a COPD. Simple to use and non-intrusive, leaving ventilators free for the most serious cases. Mercedes hopeful of manufacturing 10,000 / week.
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/mar/ucl-uclh-and-formula-one-develop-life-saving-breathing-aids-nhs

Testing in hospitals and approval now given.
10,000 units as promised dispatched to National Health Service.

The modified design and manufacturing details have made a free download !

On a grey note ...
Another forum I am connected with have their first known COVID 19 hospitalization.
He is in New Zealand where they went into lock down after only two confirmed cases !

Closer to my (UK) home ... Local Heath Authority report total 146 Hospital deaths - In UK only hospital confirmed cases are used for statistics.
Those who die in care homes and at home with no test having been done are NOT included in daily totals.

The real 'cost' can only be guessed at for the moment  :sad:

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 15, 2020, 05:48:10 PM

My best guess we should have a vaccine well before 2 years maybe even this fall.
We could roll right now in parts of Nebraska with many businesses taking precautions of course with the vulnerable.
This won't be easy for sure but it has to be done. We will not survive shut down much longer. Throwing money at it won't stop a total disaster of business collapses nationwide on a scale we haven't seen. Permanent unemployment for millions. I expect inside of 4 weeks to see some Governors moving to reopen certain areas even before the June date. Once parts of the economy start opening it will be a snowball effect.  Hard hit areas like NYC may not get open for some time and may even have to wait for a vaccine.


Yepp. Those that push for this shutdown to go on for months might should imagine themselves and their family standing in line at a soup kitchen waiting for a meal.... Could get really ugly.


Doug

I'm confused. You prefer to line up at the morgue?

When some "Think Tank" or other says "some measures" in place for extended period of time, why do some e think it will be extreme measures, strangling to economics?

"Some measure" might be masks by default and sanitizer on every lamppost.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Vasjo on April 17, 2020, 11:21:12 AM
All I do for the past weeks is washing my hands, keeping social distance and eating a lot. Should start doing some sport I guess but my Greece property https://tranio.com/greece/ is not that big. Will try to move some furniture to make some space I guess.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on April 17, 2020, 04:03:34 PM
Trying not to eat as much but can't help it.
When I do it's mostly tuna just because it's low in fat.
I am sick of tuna!
I want a plate of wings with a huge side of fries for breakfast lunch and dinner. :grin:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Mabcmb on April 17, 2020, 04:14:47 PM
Trying not to eat as much but can't help it.
When I do it's mostly tuna just because it's low in fat.
I am sick of tuna!
I want a plate of wings with a huge side of fries for breakfast lunch and dinner. :grin:

 Get a good air fryer !!! Man we cook shrimp / chicken strips  and fries with no oil so I feel I'm not eating the fat  :grin: :grin: . We use the you know what outta ours .
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 17, 2020, 04:54:39 PM
Trying not to eat as much but can't help it.
When I do it's mostly tuna just because it's low in fat.
I am sick of tuna!
I want a plate of wings with a huge side of fries for breakfast lunch and dinner. :grin:

Tuna sandwiches made right are one of my favorites. 2 boiled eggs chopped, dill pickle chopped, 5 oz can Starkist tuna, add miracle whip to taste.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 17, 2020, 05:18:10 PM
Just to give me an added layer of TV watching-I grabbed a simple OTA ears for the tv.

There is MEtv, antennatv, decades and H and I-Heroes and Icons. On Fridays H and I runs Numbers. Great show.


Then it hit me----Too bad Scorpion, Numbers and Big Bang were not all on at the same time.

GEEK CROSSOVERS!!!!!!!!!!!

A station called Comet had Quantum Leap
Another had Knight Rider.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 17, 2020, 05:27:51 PM
Trying not to eat as much but can't help it.
When I do it's mostly tuna just because it's low in fat.
I am sick of tuna!
I want a plate of wings with a huge side of fries for breakfast lunch and dinner. :grin:

Tuna sandwiches made right are one of my favorites. 2 boiled eggs chopped, dill pickle chopped, 5 oz can Starkist tuna, add miracle whip to taste.
Oh hell yeah! On toast! Only thing I add is diced sweet onion, and using miracle whip instead of mayo is also a winner. I also put Tabasco on my samich. Yum.

Crap now I want it.... :-(
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DRoberts on April 17, 2020, 05:56:52 PM
Tuna sandwich = good eating... and cats love the tuna water! Double win.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on April 17, 2020, 06:38:33 PM
Tuna sandwich = good eating... and cats love the tuna water! Double win.
Your not kidding about cats.
Me and wifes cats do not get a long, but when I open up a can they cozy up to me real quick.
I just have my tuna in water out of the can with a little salt and pepper.
I can put on weight real easy and being out of work I'm not getting the work out I usually get.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 17, 2020, 08:45:57 PM
Trying not to eat as much but can't help it.
When I do it's mostly tuna just because it's low in fat.
I am sick of tuna!
I want a plate of wings with a huge side of fries for breakfast lunch and dinner. :grin:

Tuna sandwiches made right are one of my favorites. 2 boiled eggs chopped, dill pickle chopped, 5 oz can Starkist tuna, add miracle whip to taste.
Oh hell yeah! On toast! Only thing I add is diced sweet onion, and using miracle whip instead of mayo is also a winner. I also put Tabasco on my samich. Yum.

Crap now I want it.... :-(

I grew up with it "Miracle Whip". I thought it was mayonnaise for many years. The only way to go.  [tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 17, 2020, 09:06:05 PM
Trying not to eat as much but can't help it.
When I do it's mostly tuna just because it's low in fat.
I am sick of tuna!
I want a plate of wings with a huge side of fries for breakfast lunch and dinner. :grin:

Tuna sandwiches made right are one of my favorites. 2 boiled eggs chopped, dill pickle chopped, 5 oz can Starkist tuna, add miracle whip to taste.
Oh hell yeah! On toast! Only thing I add is diced sweet onion, and using miracle whip instead of mayo is also a winner. I also put Tabasco on my samich. Yum.

Crap now I want it.... :-(

I grew up with it "Miracle Whip". I thought it was mayonnaise for many years. The only way to go.  [tup]
About the only thing I prefer mayo on over MW is fresh sliced tomato..salt and pepper mandatory. ;)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 17, 2020, 09:16:34 PM
Not wanting to pile on Dr. Deborah Birx because I like her we are the same age and all but her not knowing Montana or Oklahoma on a map wasn't a shocker.  Worked with  MIT Ph.D. professors at a power plant and you would be surprised how once out of their element of expertise how dumb people are.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 17, 2020, 09:34:53 PM
A month ago my post was deleted for using the "C" word...and it wasn't Chinese. Wonder how that feeling is now...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 17, 2020, 10:12:08 PM
Figured it out a long time ago. 3 classes of people pretty much make up the country. 1-What I call freeloaders not that intelligent so looking for an easy way all the time, 2-Very smart people that excel in usually one area of expertise and then you have 3- people that learn fast and know a little about everything. Excel in areas of interest, the backbone of America. 

Deborah is a #2, knows her stuff but outside of it is limited. That's okay we need experts.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 18, 2020, 02:34:41 AM
Amazing death rate numbers here what 3-8 deaths in cites larger than NYC, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
Who continues to lie and deceive?
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]



Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 18, 2020, 03:58:44 AM
BTW the virus was started in a WUHAN level 4 lab, That will be the final USA Government analysis guaranteed. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 18, 2020, 06:37:20 AM
And it will be backed up by the In-Built Tactic of ASA, (Asymptomatic Spread Ability). If you released it in a widespread, coordinated, strategic way; it could be in 99% of the population before it is detected.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 18, 2020, 06:42:01 AM
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/scientists-strong-evidence-coronavirus-originated-naturally/story?id=70207409&cid=clicksource_4380645_2_heads_hero_live_hero_related
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on April 18, 2020, 08:23:15 AM
Guys, lets keep the politics out of it.
We can ALL find links, websites, youtube videos, etc to support our point of view, what ever that may be.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 18, 2020, 09:27:42 AM
redirect---Hi all. Hope you are still doing well.
My kids are going stir crazy.

Seeing a lot of states doing distance learning until the end of the year.

Golf courses and fishing open in Minnesota. I have not been called in to work at the course yet.

may get to 60 today!!!!!! Shorts weather.

attempt at humor

(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91826911_10219114176422920_6417225441429422080_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=SXt5Xff5j-sAX8acNQ0&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=11fa7131c2c4dda92565f335bf1995b7&oe=5EC15E6D)



Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: vreihen on April 18, 2020, 10:42:11 AM
(https://images.hvtraffic.com/images/2020/04/16/20200416000727-f59a3522.jpg)


.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 18, 2020, 11:00:44 AM
redirect---Hi all. Hope you are still doing well.
My kids are going stir crazy.

Seeing a lot of states doing distance learning until the end of the year.

Golf courses and fishing open in Minnesota. I have not been called in to work at the course yet.

may get to 60 today!!!!!! Shorts weather.

attempt at humor

(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91826911_10219114176422920_6417225441429422080_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=SXt5Xff5j-sAX8acNQ0&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=11fa7131c2c4dda92565f335bf1995b7&oe=5EC15E6D)


Ya know, you could do that, who is going to come around and check?????
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 18, 2020, 11:20:44 AM
that would be fun!!!!!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 18, 2020, 12:10:15 PM
Guys, lets keep the politics out of it.
We can ALL find links, websites, youtube videos, etc to support our point of view, what ever that may be.

Thanks, I  deleted my reference to the news.  [tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 18, 2020, 01:44:24 PM
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/scientists-strong-evidence-coronavirus-originated-naturally/story?id=70207409&cid=clicksource_4380645_2_heads_hero_live_hero_related
It can still have originated naturally, and still have been released from a lab where it was being studied.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 18, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
yes, its possible that could have happened accidentally, especially as it now seems to be more contagious that first thought (ie airborne) ,but does not mean it was a bio weapon or similar
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 18, 2020, 07:06:00 PM
Who needs cords???

I spent the afternoon cleaning out boxes of cords.

video/RCA/Red-white-yellow/RGB/Serial/USB printer/antenna/phone chargers/RJ11 cords/s-video/firewire,

Have 2 speaker selector splitters. An RF modulator and a Remote extender.

I called it my own personal Radio Shack. Who needs all that crap in today's world?

I sorted out and threw away tons of cords. Hopefully I can get rid of them at the county dump.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 18, 2020, 07:30:20 PM
Who needs cords???

I spent the afternoon cleaning out boxes of cords.

video/RCA/Red-white-yellow/RGB/Serial/USB printer/antenna/phone chargers/RJ11 cords/s-video/firewire,

Have 2 speaker selector splitters. An RF modulator and a Remote extender.

I called it my own personal Radio Shack. Who needs all that crap in today's world?

I sorted out and threw away tons of cords. Hopefully I can get rid of them at the county dump.
I'll see your Radio Shack and raise you 1 receiver, 2 pre-amps, 1 pair of floor speakers, 1 turntable, 1 phono pre-amp, 1 cassette deck, 1 CD deck, 1 equalizer, 1 55" Sony LCD TV... All spares, and all old, but working. I like redundancy.  :-)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 18, 2020, 07:43:50 PM
need any cords?

Old tech is still good. and sounds great.
I dumped a few electronics years ago. I have two sets of outdoor speakers that I have little use for in the new house.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 18, 2020, 07:46:32 PM
need any cords?
OMG no.  ;)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 18, 2020, 08:24:05 PM
Old tech is still good. and sounds great.
Yes, I have a lights out vinyl set-up, but my new digital set-up is very close to my best vinyl. It was inevitable.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 18, 2020, 10:48:57 PM
Meanwhile, getting back on topic and from the local angle:

Stillwater has 21 known positive cases of COVID-19, according to the Oklahoma State Department of Health.

The OSDH has now released slightly more detailed data, including some city information. Payne County remains without a known fatality from COVID-19.

Stillwater’s most recent publicly known case involves a daycare worker, according to a report from KOCO News 5. The owner of Oak Tree Children’s Academy in Stillwater told KOCO’s Erin Beu that a part-time teacher tested positive and they had closed the facility until at least the end of next week. The teacher had been around eight children and six other staff members according to KOCO. The owner told KOCO that the other employees would be tested.

While schools have closed campuses and moved online, child care facilities are considered essential work, and necessary for other essential employees to be able to go to work with more children now in the home.

The state’s latest report also provided cases associated with nursing homes. There were no Payne County nursing homes with known positives in the report counted through midnight April 15.

The report through April 16 also listed 1,331 people recovered. There were 528 Oklahomans who had been hospitalized for COVID-19 overall, with 154 currently hospitalized and 62 in ICU. The average age of those hospitalized is 65.2, and the average age of cases not hospitalized is 51.0.

Gov. Kevin Stitt has taken a possible trend of decreasing hospitalizations as a sign that Oklahoma may be able to open some businesses that had been closed under his Safer at Home Order. That order was extended for vulnerable people to May 6.

Stillwater imposed Shelter at Home orders for non-essential works before the state order. Stillwater Mayor Will Joyce last week extended Stillwater’s order through April 30. The Council will meet again Monday.

“Re-opening local businesses and re-starting community life is absolutely essential, but must be done carefully,” Joyce wrote at the time. “If we allow the virus to surge again, all of our hard work to this point will have been in vain.”
FROM:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/stillwater-has-21-known-positive-cases-of-covid-19/article_51606b8c-80da-11ea-b183-db364b03016a.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/stillwater-has-21-known-positive-cases-of-covid-19/article_51606b8c-80da-11ea-b183-db364b03016a.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 19, 2020, 12:58:00 AM
Quote
“Re-opening local businesses and re-starting community life is absolutely essential, but must be done carefully,” Joyce wrote at the time. “If we allow the virus to surge again, all of our hard work to this point will have been in vain.”
Exactly
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 19, 2020, 01:30:01 AM
Quote
“Re-opening local businesses and re-starting community life is absolutely essential, but must be done carefully,” Joyce wrote at the time. “If we allow the virus to surge again, all of our hard work to this point will have been in vain.”
Exactly
Yes, exactly. So, exactly...when is exactly?

Exactly...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 19, 2020, 03:15:09 AM
yes, its possible that could have happened accidentally, especially as it now seems to be more contagious that first thought (ie airborne) ,but does not mean it was a bio weapon or similar
Nobody that I'm aware of necessarily said it was a bio weapon.  But given the loss of life, and all the other devastating effects, it behooves us to investigate all the possibilities as to how it happened, and how it was (mis)handled.  I don't think anybody should want to just assume that there was no ill intent, negligence, or cover-up, and bet millions of lives it won't happen again.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 19, 2020, 04:02:09 AM
It can still have originated naturally, and still have been released from a lab where it was being studied.

Almost anything is possible. Is an accidental lab release likely? IMHO no. Why look for long-odds causes when there are much simpler explanations available?

Species-jumping amongst viruses, especially RNA viruses, is a well-known phenomenon - indeed there's speculation that this is how many human viral diseases originated and potentially before any lab was set up. Where did HIV come from for instance, which was AFAICR unknown (maybe outside of tropical Africa) before 1980 or thereabouts? Or SARS-1 or MERS?

Some RNA viruses (including COVID-19, though that's not the worst offender because it does apparently have some error correction in its RNA Polymerase process, though still with nothing like the fidelity of DNA replication) are extremely prone to mutation, indeed to the extent that very few of the virus copies in an infected individual are literally identical. It only takes one of these mutations to be favourable to replication inside a different species of host (eg humans) and exposure to that mutant (eg exposure to camel cough/sneeze in the case of MERS), for new viruses to be able to start spreading in humans.

The threat  of naturally-occurring new viruses (eg son of COVID-19 or a related coronavirus more generally) will be with us for years to come. It's fortunate that COVID-19 is not more contagious than it is. If a mutant were to develop that was as contagious as measles for example (R0 of 15 or so IIRC, rather than around 3 of COVID) then that really would spread like wildfire.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 19, 2020, 04:20:42 AM
Why look for long-odds causes when there are much simpler explanations available?
Again, I think we need to look at all the possibilities, and all the evidence, before coming to final conclusions.

The virus appears to have originated near a research lab (or two) that deals with such things.

Evidence is reportedly destroyed.

Outside experts are said to have been denied access.

The wet markets, or whatever they are called, that it is said to have originated in are quickly reopened.

The officials don't seem to be forthcoming with accurate information.

Doctors silenced and disappearing.

Those are just some of the things I've heard off the top of my head.

Coincidence?  Maybe.  But again, are you willing to bet millions of lives on your simple explanations?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 19, 2020, 04:56:28 AM
But again, are you willing to bet millions of lives on your simple explanations?

I've obviously lost the thread of the argument here. In what sense are millions of lives at risk even if an investigation were able to establish beyond reasonable doubt (which I seriously doubt it could) that a more malign or at least human-mediated explanation was the cause? That's just rewriting a piece of history.

Millions of human lives are at risk anyway from new viruse threats evolving via perfectly natural processes (which they will, almost certainly), just like they are from other potential disaster events which, while they may be the raw material for many films and are less easy to protect against, are largely ignored in practice, like Jellystone Park blowing up, meteorite impacts, extensive, high-magnitude earthquakes in heavily populated areas etc.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 19, 2020, 05:42:46 AM
had to laugh, sorry, at Jellystone (not sure if you were being funny or not there Johnd) (Yogi bear?)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 19, 2020, 01:09:56 PM
I've obviously lost the thread of the argument here. In what sense are millions of lives at risk even if an investigation were able to establish beyond reasonable doubt (which I seriously doubt it could) that a more malign or at least human-mediated explanation was the cause? That's just rewriting a piece of history.

Millions of human lives are at risk anyway from new viruse threats evolving via perfectly natural processes (which they will, almost certainly), just like they are from other potential disaster events which, while they may be the raw material for many films and are less easy to protect against, are largely ignored in practice, like Jellystone Park blowing up, meteorite impacts, extensive, high-magnitude earthquakes in heavily populated areas etc.
If there was malfeasance, or negligence, and people aren't held accountable, and corrective measures taken, it's likely to happen again, and keep happening, and millions more could die.  It's not that difficult to follow.

For example, people are at risk from murderers, drunk drivers, etc.  It doesn't mean that we shouldn't investigate deaths and auto accidents because so many people die natural deaths.  Any avoidable deaths aren't excusable simply because people die from natural disasters.

History isn't being rewritten by trying to find out the facts, that doesn't even make sense.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 19, 2020, 01:27:58 PM

Millions of human lives are at risk anyway from new viruse threats evolving via perfectly natural processes (which they will, almost certainly), just like they are from other potential disaster events which, while they may be the raw material for many films and are less easy to protect against, are largely ignored in practice, like Jellystone Park blowing up, meteorite impacts, extensive, high-magnitude earthquakes in heavily populated areas etc.
You may note that I've also questioned the length to which we go to attempt to mitigate the effects of the virus in an earlier post by pointing out that we could move people away hurricane and earthquake prone areas and potentially save lives.

I guess one difference is that people like me choose to live near "Jellystone Park" knowing the risks.  If someone dynamites my house, or knows of some disaster that's about to happen and fails to warn me or stop it if they can, they can't excuse themselves by saying I accepted the risk by living near "Jellystone".

had to laugh, sorry, at Jellystone (not sure if you were being funny or not there Johnd) (Yogi bear?)
I suspect John is like tourists who seem to learn about life from cartoons, and go to the park and try to take selfies with the bears because they seem just so good natured on TV.  :lol:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 19, 2020, 02:46:53 PM
I hope an investigation is done into handling of the virus outbreak by countries, as mistakes and or lost  opportunities squandered ,have been made
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 19, 2020, 03:33:14 PM
I hope an investigation is done into handling of the virus outbreak by countries, as mistakes and or lost  opportunities squandered ,have been made
I'd be interested in exactly how you would determine that.  By the percentage of lives lost directly due to the virus?  By whether or not the economy has been completely destroyed (keeping in mind a destroyed economy will cause many more lives)?  By whether or not citizen's freedoms have been taken away never to return as they were before?  Some combination of the above, or something else?

And who (WHO?) is going to make that determination?  Whatever, I suspect many people have already predetermined which countries will pass their criteria, even if they have no idea what that criteria is yet.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 19, 2020, 04:24:16 PM
For the avoidance of doubt, let me just reiterate my personal view:

1. All the scientific evidence points to a species jump of the coronavirus that became COVID-19 from bat to human, probably with patient 0 (not that they'll ever be identifiable as such) being a farmer in the Wuhan region, but with the jump not necessarily happening at the so-called wet market. So in my book this is far and away the most plausible explanation.

2. But if instead this was a deliberate or inadvertent release of a strain of coronavirus 'created' in a laboratory then there are two possibilities. One is that it came accidentally from a Chinese laboratory somewhere around Wuhan. The second is that it was a deliberate release either by China or some western power (and the US is not out of the picture, as some rumours circulating widely suggest) or some other nationality. Again FOAD, I don't think any of these is likely but just playing along with the narrative.

By all means have an investigation and genuine good luck to it, but I just cannot see it revealing much of value. If it was accidental then I don't believe that the Chinese will allow any of the blame to end up with them - they will simply just not provide any useful background detail. And ditto in spades if it was deliberate.

I would much rather that this COVID-19 episode acted as a demonstration of the dire health and economic consequences of a serious pandemic and that it prompts nations around the world to be better prepared on all fronts to handle the next pandemic, which will surely happen from natural causes just like it has many times in the past. Imagine, for example, a SARS or MERS related virus (with their considerably higher mortality than the current one) but with the infectivity of measles; that would be multiple times worse than the present COVID-19 virus.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 19, 2020, 04:54:18 PM
If it was accidental then I don't believe that the Chinese will allow any of the blame to end up with them - they will simply just not provide any useful background detail. And ditto in spades if it was deliberate.
So, since they are not, and have not been, providing any useful background detail, not allowing their doctors to talk, or others to investigate, and providing misinformation, what does that tell you?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 19, 2020, 05:01:06 PM
If it was accidental then I don't believe that the Chinese will allow any of the blame to end up with them - they will simply just not provide any useful background detail. And ditto in spades if it was deliberate.
So, since they are not, and have not been, providing any useful background detail, not allowing their doctors to talk, or others to investigate, and providing misinformation, what does that tell you?

Doesn't tell me anything at all, except that they're instinctively paranoid about avoiding criticism at all costs. It's just so ingrained in the Chinese authorities' genes. But I don't have any other preconceptions about the Chinese so cannot read anything else into it.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 19, 2020, 05:52:04 PM
Doesn't tell me anything at all, except that they're instinctively paranoid about avoiding criticism at all costs. It's just so ingrained in the Chinese authorities' genes. But I don't have any other preconceptions about the Chinese so cannot read anything else into it.
Oh okay.  :lol:

Sorry, I just have to laugh at completely meaningless statements like this:
If it was accidental then I don't believe that the Chinese will allow any of the blame to end up with them - they will simply just not provide any useful background detail. And ditto in spades if it was deliberate.

when they do it "ditto in spades" no matter what the situation is.  :lol:

I guess I might find it more funny if more people hadn't died than needed to because accurate information wasn't forthcoming, and we're basically told to forget about it.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bushman on April 19, 2020, 06:49:42 PM
...
I would much rather that this COVID-19 episode acted as a demonstration of the dire health and economic consequences of a serious pandemic and that it prompts nations around the world to be better prepared on all fronts to handle the next pandemic, which will surely happen from natural causes just like it has many times in the past. Imagine, for example, a SARS or MERS related virus (with their considerably higher mortality than the current one) but with the infectivity of measles; that would be multiple times worse than the present COVID-19 virus.

Compare and contrast to other causes of death.  This "pandemic" is far from the critical health issues that plague humanity.  Example:  "On average, 15 000 children under-5 die each day" (WHO)  And for the UK:  https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/articles/leadingcausesofdeathuk/2001to2018
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 19, 2020, 07:24:49 PM
Quote
By whether or not citizen's freedoms have been taken away never to return as they were before?
so going along with that a person would rather than stay home and save lives  would rather to have the freedom to do they want and not what they are told to do for the greater good?
'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few' -> Star Trek
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 19, 2020, 08:37:34 PM
Quote
By whether or not citizen's freedoms have been taken away never to return as they were before?
so going along with that a person would rather than stay home and save lives  would rather to have the freedom to do they want and not what they are told to do for the greater good?
'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few' -> Star Trek
You are free to do as you please.  Go out , be happy,  don't give a flying F about anyone. Just promise me one thing. Should you get this virus, stay at home, get well but don't you dare go to any hospital and ask for treatment or help.  That would take away resources from the people who need it.  Instead, kick back on the couch, pour yourself a tall scotch or whatever, and put a song on your device  , Frank Sinatra's  "Doing it my way."    You will love it.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t8kAbUg4t4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t8kAbUg4t4)

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 19, 2020, 09:11:49 PM
Things have changed.  In the past people died for freedom.  Today people are scared to death of freedom and beg for it to be taken away.

As for being socially responsible, I wonder who are more so. Those taught "moral values" by the public schools and the state, who have to it legislated to them; or real freedom loving hardworking individuals taught real values by their parents and/or their faith?

With freedom comes responsibility.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 19, 2020, 09:35:51 PM
Things have changed.  In the past people died for freedom.  Today people are scared to death of freedom and beg for it to be taken away.

As for being socially responsible, I wonder who are more so. Those taught "moral values" by the public schools and the state, who have to it legislated to them; or real freedom loving hardworking individuals taught real values by their parents and/or their faith?

With freedom comes responsibility.
The problem is that not all parents and faiths agree what "real freedoms" and "real values" are. Did you actually mean your parents and your faith, rather than just making a general statement about any parents and any faith?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 19, 2020, 09:53:45 PM
The problem is that not all parents and faiths agree what "real freedoms" and "real values" are. Did you actually mean your parents and your faith, rather than just making a general statement about any parents and any faith?
Actually, I think most real freedoms and moral values are self-evident, despite how you may wish to deny any type of absolute truth.

If freedom and values are so nebulous, then why put any stock in the laws at all?

At the risk of getting banned, I think the US Constitution does a fine job of outlining such things and has worked well.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: wxthomson on April 19, 2020, 10:33:53 PM
Why look for long-odds causes when there are much simpler explanations available?
Again, I think we need to look at all the possibilities, and all the evidence, before coming to final conclusions.

The virus appears to have originated near a research lab (or two) that deals with such things.

Evidence is reportedly destroyed.

Outside experts are said to have been denied access.

The wet markets, or whatever they are called, that it is said to have originated in are quickly reopened.

The officials don't seem to be forthcoming with accurate information.

Doctors silenced and disappearing.

Those are just some of the things I've heard off the top of my head.

Coincidence?  Maybe.  But again, are you willing to bet millions of lives on your simple explanations?


Interesting

I "heard" that Santa Claus hires elves to make toys at the North Pole and he personally delivers them to children on the night of December 24th.

Many people have told me that.

Of course there is no reliable proof of that either.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: wxthomson on April 19, 2020, 10:39:07 PM
Today people are scared to death of freedom and beg for it to be taken away.

I hadn't heard that.

Can you quote just some of these people saying they are scared to death of freedom and beg for it to be taken away.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 19, 2020, 11:04:08 PM


Interesting

I "heard" that Santa Claus hires elves to make toys at the North Pole and he personally delivers them to children on the night of December 24th.

Many people have told me that.

Of course there is no reliable proof of that either.
Just a little snarky aren't you. :lol:

There is a difference between looking at evidence and considering the possibilities, especially when it concerns human life, and totally disregarding something because it goes against reason.  As far as I know, Santa Claus isn't responsible for anyone's death.  The virus is.  Don't you think maybe that would make us want to get to the bottom of what caused it, and consider all evidence, and find out why the people where it originated haven't been forthcoming?  Do you think it is impossible that the virus was being studied in a lab when it was released, or do you just think it doesn't matter?  Can you refute any of the points I mentioned?
Today people are scared to death of freedom and beg for it to be taken away.

I hadn't heard that.

Can you quote just some of these people saying they are scared to death of freedom and beg for it to be taken away.
You may want to try going back and rereading this thread.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 19, 2020, 11:21:37 PM
Today people are scared to death of freedom and beg for it to be taken away.

I hadn't heard that.

Can you quote just some of these people saying they are scared to death of freedom and beg for it to be taken away.
Actually, maybe they're just begging for other's rights to be taken away so they can feel safe, not realizing or caring that their rights are necessarily being taken away also.  I'll give you that point.  :-)

Besides rereading this thread, you may want to look at the news.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on April 19, 2020, 11:30:41 PM
Just because I'm not posting in this thread every day, doesn't mean I'm not reading it.

Do you want me to shut it down and lock it up?

Please cut the insults.
Also cut the politics out.

You can say something without insulting the opposing view. It is about respecting each other. You may think that the opposing view person is an idiot, but that is just too bad, you can't express that. You still have to respect them. Or just leave and don't read and don't post and don't start it up. Don't stir the pot.

There are plenty of other forums to go on and be irate and to insult others if that is your thing. Here you have to be nice.

These are difficult times for many. Tensions are high. We are living in unprecedented times. I dare you to make your point without insulting those with opposing views. You'll be respected if you do, and only then may you stand a chance to change minds. And even if you don't change minds, you'll get people to agree to disagree, which is a good situation which often leads to compromise and consensus.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 19, 2020, 11:54:53 PM
I dare you to make your point without insulting those with opposing views.
Not saying it's right, because it's not, but this is nothing more than a reflection of the travesty that the bias media now shoves down our throats every single day.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 20, 2020, 12:12:52 AM
The problem is that not all parents and faiths agree what "real freedoms" and "real values" are. Did you actually mean your parents and your faith, rather than just making a general statement about any parents and any faith?
Actually, I think most real freedoms and moral values are self-evident, despite how you may wish to deny any type of absolute truth.

If freedom and values are so nebulous, then why put any stock in the laws at all?

At the risk of getting banned, I think the US Constitution does a fine job of outlining such things and has worked well.
No problem, we are free to think what we want, but that freedom is a two-way street. It comes with the inconvenience of having to accept everyone else can have their own version what the "self-evident absolute truth" is even if we don't like the fact that they think our "self-evident absolute truths" are not self-evident nor true.

If somehow I implied people should put no stock in the law, I'm aologise, because that was not my intention in asking my question.


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 20, 2020, 01:38:59 AM
No problem, we are free to think what we want, but that freedom is a two-way street. It comes with the inconvenience of having to accept everyone else can have their own version what the "self-evident absolute truth" is even if we don't like the fact that they think our "self-evident absolute truths" are not self-evident nor true.

If somehow I implied people should put no stock in the law, I'm aologise, because that was not my intention in asking my question.
I guess if there is no absolute truth, then you can't be right and I can't be wrong.  :grin:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 20, 2020, 03:40:40 AM
Do you want me to shut it down and lock it up?

Not on my account certainly. I'm happy to marvel at other people's world views. And anyway everyone seems to be exercising at least a modicum of restraint.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 20, 2020, 03:51:51 AM
I guess I might find it more funny if more people hadn't died than needed to because accurate information wasn't forthcoming, and we're basically told to forget about it.

No-one is suggesting that you forget about it.

What I'm commenting on is (IMHO of course) the sheer futility of expecting that any sort of investigation is going to establish new 'facts' about the true origin of how COVID-19 jumped from bats to humans. There are too many reasons why this just isn't going to happen, so why pretend otherwise? Even if a Chinese lab was responsible (which is perhaps at the 1-2% level of probability) then do you really think they're going to put their hands up and say Ok it's a fair cop? Just to be crystal clear, I don't condone this for a second and wish everyone concerned were more transparent (like they are for plane crashes for instance), but that's just not reality.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 20, 2020, 04:13:28 AM
I guess I might find it more funny if more people hadn't died than needed to because accurate information wasn't forthcoming, and we're basically told to forget about it.

No-one is suggesting that you forget about it.

What I'm commenting on is (IMHO of course) the sheer futility of expecting that any sort of investigation is going to establish new 'facts' about the true origin of how COVID-19 jumped from bats to humans. There are too many reasons why this just isn't going to happen, so why pretend otherwise? Even if a Chinese lab was responsible (which is perhaps at the 1-2% level of probability) then do you really think they're going to put their hands up and say Ok it's a fair cop? Just to be crystal clear, I don't condone this for a second and wish everyone concerned were more transparent (like they are for plane crashes for instance), but that's just not reality.

This Wuhan lab was known for its sloppiness. The virus came from this lab I would say its more like a 99% probability.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 20, 2020, 04:14:16 AM
This from https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8218817/State-Department-warned-2018-Wuhan-lab-cause-new-SARS-like-pandemic.html (a UK publication even)

Quote
State Department warned in 2018 that Wuhan lab testing bats for coronavirus had sloppy safety precautions and had the potential to cause a 'new SARS-like pandemic'
Still pretty coincidental for something that apparently originated around that lab and yet has only a "1 to 2% level of probability" of being associated with that lab, don't you think?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 20, 2020, 04:19:57 AM

This Wuhan lab was known for its sloppiness. The virus came from this lab I would say its more like a 99% probability.
I'm no expert, but given facts like I linked to above, I think that's a lot closer than 1-2%.  :-)  (Hopefully it's okay to link, as I see you removed one of yours, but people seem to be in denial that there could have been serious problems at that lab.)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 20, 2020, 05:22:56 AM
Even if a Chinese lab was responsible (which is perhaps at the 1-2% level of probability)
You can't possibly be serious...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 20, 2020, 05:47:31 AM
You can't possibly be serious...

Why not? Where do you think all the other viral epidemics in history came from? What about MERS, SARS, all the various influenza epidemics down the years and so on. Do you believe that Chinese labs were responsible for the Spanish flu in 1918? Viral epidemics are a natural event (facilitated these days by international travel & trade) and the simplest explanation here is yet another natural event. To me that's far more plausible than some second-hand reporting of a tabloid journalist who probably never even studied science in school. For anyone who's not aware, the Daily Mail reportage is largely a joke here in the UK, especially - to change tack slightly - when it comes to weather matters.

Remember that viruses, especially RNA viruses, evolve (in an infected host) in essentially real time because of their huge replication rate and poor error correction, so given the right circumstances it's perfectly possible for species jumps to happen.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 20, 2020, 06:02:45 AM
Washington Post
Josh Rogin
Columnist
April 14, 2020 at 5:00 a.m. CDT

Two years before the novel coronavirus pandemic upended the world, U.S. Embassy officials visited a Chinese research facility in the city of Wuhan several times and sent two official warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety at the lab, which was conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats. The cables have fueled discussions inside the U.S. government about whether this or another Wuhan lab was the source of the virus — even though conclusive proof has yet to emerge.

In January 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing took the unusual step of repeatedly sending U.S. science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which had in 2015 become China’s first laboratory to achieve the highest level of international bioresearch safety (known as BSL-4). WIV issued a news release in English about the last of these visits, which occurred on March 27, 2018. The U.S. delegation was led by Jamison Fouss, the consul general in Wuhan, and Rick Switzer, the embassy’s counselor of environment, science, technology and health. Last week, WIV erased that statement from its website, though it remains archived on the Internet.



What the U.S. officials learned during their visits concerned them so much that they dispatched two diplomatic cables categorized as Sensitive But Unclassified back to Washington. The cables warned about safety and management weaknesses at the WIV lab and proposed more attention and help. The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic.

“During interactions with scientists at the WIV laboratory, they noted the new lab has a serious shortage of appropriately trained technicians and investigators needed to safely operate this high-containment laboratory,” states the Jan. 19, 2018, cable, which was drafted by two officials from the embassy’s environment, science and health sections who met with the WIV scientists.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on April 20, 2020, 06:25:54 AM
Done with this thread. You guys battle it out. :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 20, 2020, 04:45:50 PM
You can't possibly be serious...

Why not? Where do you think all the other viral epidemics in history came from? What about MERS, SARS, all the various influenza epidemics down the years and so on. Do you believe that Chinese labs were responsible for the Spanish flu in 1918? Viral epidemics are a natural event (facilitated these days by international travel & trade) and the simplest explanation here is yet another natural event. To me that's far more plausible than some second-hand reporting of a tabloid journalist who probably never even studied science in school. For anyone who's not aware, the Daily Mail reportage is largely a joke here in the UK, especially - to change tack slightly - when it comes to weather matters.

Remember that viruses, especially RNA viruses, evolve (in an infected host) in essentially real time because of their huge replication rate and poor error correction, so given the right circumstances it's perfectly possible for species jumps to happen.
Okay, misunderstanding on my part...I read your post to mean that you thought the Chinese government themselves were only 1-2% responsible with their cover-up. That part is unequivocal. Whether it came from a lab or not is TBD, and the world will find out come hell or high water.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 20, 2020, 11:13:32 PM
Why should China admit to causing the COVID-19 pandemic, if it really did,  and in world court risk being found guilty and held responsible for many billions of dollars in damages?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 20, 2020, 11:38:35 PM
Why should China admit to causing the COVID-19 pandemic, if it really did,  and in world court risk being found guilty and held responsible for many billions of dollars in damages?
Admit it or don't. Do you not think the remaining entirety of a rational, infected planet doesn't know better? Please...

BTW, billions don't even scratch the surface, and that's just in this country alone.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 21, 2020, 12:57:38 AM
no bio labs back then: - > https://www.albanyherald.com/news/world_nation/in-1911-another-epidemic-swept-through-china-that-time-the-world-came-together/article_2ee89efd-d853-58d9-879a-d1d185a0cf6d.html
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 21, 2020, 02:54:23 AM
Why should China admit to causing the COVID-19 pandemic, if it really did,  and in world court risk being found guilty and held responsible for many billions of dollars in damages?
I agree, China will not admit to any such thing, nor would any other country in the same circumstances - their lawyers would gag them first.

The World Court might rule against China, but it is exceptionally unlikely that China would end up with an enforceable  damages bill.

The UN charter allows the UN Security Council to take all necessary steps to enforce the judgement, BUT like the US, China is one of the five permanent members that can veto any resolution. All permanent Security Council members have used their veto in the past to protect themselves, so it would be a sure bet that the resolution would be vetoed by China, if it ever get to that, which I doubt.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 21, 2020, 04:13:17 AM
Why should China admit to causing the COVID-19 pandemic, if it really did,  and in world court risk being found guilty and held responsible for many billions of dollars in damages?
I agree, China will not admit to any such thing, nor would any other country in the same circumstances - their lawyers would gag them first.

The World Court might rule against China, but it is exceptionally unlikely that China would end up with an enforceable  damages bill.

The UN charter allows the UN Security Council to take all necessary steps to enforce the judgement, BUT like the US, China is one of the five permanent members that can veto any resolution. All permanent Security Council members have used their veto in the past to protect themselves, so it would be a sure bet that the resolution would be vetoed by China, if it ever get to that, which I doubt.
:lol: Oh, it'll go waaay beyond this joke.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 21, 2020, 04:16:20 AM
Why should China admit to causing the COVID-19 pandemic, if it really did,  and in world court risk being found guilty and held responsible for many billions of dollars in damages?
Admit it or don't. Do you not think the remaining entirety of a rational, infected planet doesn't know better? Please...

What I think doesn't matter (in all sorts of ways I'm sure  :grin:). We all know that China is notoriously secretive (at least about anything that it doesn't want the rest of the world to know about) and is also highly averse to criticism. Wishing it were otherwise won't change this fact. China is a big player in the world these days, big enough to call its own shots. When is it estimated to become the #1 world power, economically at least, 2025, 2030 - something like that?

But all that said, I still remain very skeptical that this was anything other than a Chinese cultural problem (wet markets, rural farmers using bat guano etc). All high containment labs receive critical reports from time to time - wasn't an important part of Fort Detrick in the US closed by the CDC last year because of poor containment practices?. Hmm, yes here's one link at random:

https://wjla.com/news/local/cdc-shut-down-army-germ-lab-health-concerns

And is there any evidence at all that Chinese labs were working on any coronavirus with strong homology to COVID-19 (as opposed to SARS or MERS I mean). If someone has a link to any hard evidence then let's see it please - all I've seen so far is flimsy circumstantial stuff, stoked by anti-China sentiment.

To be clear, there seems to be little doubt that Patient Zero was in China and so the outbreak started there. And it would be great if China could be encouraged to stamp out these cultural practices that provide a breeding ground for viral species-jumping - no doubt whatsoever about that. But to start trying to claim reparations for that is quite a slippery slope. For instance, do we think that the US should be liable for inventing the fast food (eg burger) chain culture that is arguably a bigger threat to world health than COVID-19?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 21, 2020, 04:17:00 AM
Why should China admit to causing the COVID-19 pandemic, if it really did,  and in world court risk being found guilty and held responsible for many billions of dollars in damages?
I agree, China will not admit to any such thing, nor would any other country in the same circumstances - their lawyers would gag them first.

The World Court might rule against China, but it is exceptionally unlikely that China would end up with an enforceable  damages bill.

The UN charter allows the UN Security Council to take all necessary steps to enforce the judgement, BUT like the US, China is one of the five permanent members that can veto any resolution. All permanent Security Council members have used their veto in the past to protect themselves, so it would be a sure bet that the resolution would be vetoed by China, if it ever get to that, which I doubt.
:lol: Oh, it'll go waaay beyond this joke.
how?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 21, 2020, 04:25:50 AM
Why should China admit to causing the COVID-19 pandemic, if it really did,  and in world court risk being found guilty and held responsible for many billions of dollars in damages?
I agree, China will not admit to any such thing, nor would any other country in the same circumstances - their lawyers would gag them first.

The World Court might rule against China, but it is exceptionally unlikely that China would end up with an enforceable  damages bill.

The UN charter allows the UN Security Council to take all necessary steps to enforce the judgement, BUT like the US, China is one of the five permanent members that can veto any resolution. All permanent Security Council members have used their veto in the past to protect themselves, so it would be a sure bet that the resolution would be vetoed by China, if it ever get to that, which I doubt.
:lol: Oh, it'll go waaay beyond this joke.
how?
I dunno..how 'bout a breach of contract on humanity..
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 21, 2020, 04:30:09 AM
Why should China admit to causing the COVID-19 pandemic, if it really did,  and in world court risk being found guilty and held responsible for many billions of dollars in damages?
Admit it or don't. Do you not think the remaining entirety of a rational, infected planet doesn't know better? Please...
For instance, do we think that the US should be liable for inventing the fast food (eg burger) chain culture that is arguably a bigger threat to world health than COVID-19?
As funny as that is, you don't breathe in a burger.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 21, 2020, 04:57:48 AM
As funny as that is, you don't breathe in a burger.

So the route of transmission is an important factor??? But OTOH China is not selling this around the world and making $$$'s out of the damage it's doing to world health.

But, sure, this wasn't of course intended as an exact parallel, more an illustration of the questions & issues you open up once you go down the reparations route. Personally I'd much rather use whatever leverage the world might have over China now to prompt it to stamp down on the cultural practices that seem to cause these viral species jumps - that would be the best outcome.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 21, 2020, 05:18:46 AM
good stuff johnd
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 21, 2020, 05:36:51 AM
As funny as that is, you don't breathe in a burger.
So the route of transmission is an important factor???
Your argument is utter lunacy. I can choose to eat the burger or not.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 21, 2020, 05:46:33 AM
Personally I'd much rather use whatever leverage the world might have over China now to prompt it to stamp down on the cultural practices that seem to cause these viral species jumps - that would be the best outcome.

They really care, China didn't even wait for the dying to stop before they reopened the same wet markets while the world is going through a pandemic. Of course, they know where the virus originated.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 21, 2020, 05:49:17 AM
Personally I'd much rather use whatever leverage the world might have over China now to prompt it to stamp down on the cultural practices that seem to cause these viral species jumps - that would be the best outcome.
Of course, they know where the virus originated.
:-"
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 21, 2020, 01:52:52 PM
But all that said, I still remain very skeptical that this was anything other than a Chinese cultural problem (wet markets, rural farmers using bat guano etc). All high containment labs receive critical reports from time to time - wasn't an important part of Fort Detrick in the US closed by the CDC last year because of poor containment practices?. Hmm, yes here's one link at random:

https://wjla.com/news/local/cdc-shut-down-army-germ-lab-health-concerns



So John, was there a major outbreak of Ebola, smallpox, or anything else from Maryland after the critical report was released?

Did the Chinese equivalent to the CDC investigate the Wuhan lab, and did the Chinese police themselves and shut it down?

It's astounding to me how certain countries get passes no matter what they do, while other countries are attacked and criticized no matter what they do, and then some of the same people who apply different standards to different people will call others xenophobic and racist (not you John, I haven't seen you do that, at least not explicitly, but I'm sure others here have and will).  Again risking getting banned for being political, China is a closed society that oppresses its people, and as even you readily acknowledge, lies.  So guess which country seems to get a pass here; the one that is responsible for untold deaths and other human misery, and I'm not just referring to the virus.  Yes, I'm sure more people will come here and spout moral equivalence about how Western countries, one in particular, are just as guilty, because that seems to be the popular thing to do regardless of the facts.  And it's all hamburgers to viruses. 

Why do you make statements like this
By all means have an investigation and genuine good luck to it, but I just cannot see it revealing much of value. If it was accidental then I don't believe that the Chinese will allow any of the blame to end up with them - they will simply just not provide any useful background detail. And ditto in spades if it was deliberate.
and then turn around and say it doesn't mean anything when the Chinese in fact act like you say they would do if it was from the lab?

I'm glad you're not the head of any intelligence agency, or involved in any diplomacy, or even a part of any government if you really believe that no action or retribution can be taken to avoid something like this and its effects in the future. And, no, I'm not just talking about pandemics in general, but the way this one was handled by a government that was not honest when lives could have been saved and still is not being honest.  I think it is irresponsible to say that what's done is done and not try to get to the bottom of the matter.  And naive to think that evidence isn't there or can't be found and nothing can be done.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 21, 2020, 02:20:18 PM

So the route of transmission is an important factor??? But OTOH China is not selling this around the world and making $$$'s out of the damage it's doing to world health.
I'm not really following your burger analogy, maybe you should stick to virology,  :? (I didn't know a large part of the world was hiding in their houses in fear of burgers, so IMO another nonsense analogy) but are you sure China is not profiting off of the virus?  Where does much (most?) of the PPE, medical equipment and parts, medications and ingredients come from?  Do you not think that it might not help China's position in the world the more all the other countries are weakened by the virus and its effects?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 21, 2020, 02:23:52 PM
Quote
Do you not think that it might not help China's position in the world the more all the other countries are weakened by the virus and its effects?
are you serious?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 21, 2020, 02:31:25 PM
Quote
Do you not think that it might not help China's position in the world the more all the other countries are weakened by the virus and its effects?
are you serious?
Yes, I am, while I know China may also be somewhat weakened, it only stands to reason that the more other countries are weakened, the stronger you are relatively, which may be another reason China isn't concerned with being too forthcoming.

Do you seriously think China doesn't consider such things in their pursuit of dominance, and take advantage of any situation whatsoever, given their disregard of human life to begin with?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 21, 2020, 02:33:05 PM

I'm not really following your burger analogy, maybe you should stick to virology,  :? (I didn't know a large part of the world was hiding in their houses in fear of burgers, so IMO another nonsense analogy)

Is this what you're trying to say?

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 22, 2020, 03:23:20 AM
Quote
Do you not think that it might not help China's position in the world the more all the other countries are weakened by the virus and its effects?
are you serious?
Yes, I am, while I know China may also be somewhat weakened, it only stands to reason that the more other countries are weakened, the stronger you are relatively, which may be another reason China isn't concerned with being too forthcoming.
So basically it seems you are saying that China knew that these countries would handle the outbreak much more poorly than they did? With all this analysis and planning, why start the outbreak in China in the first place, where they would surely carry the flak? Why not just put some people out on a few international flights and let them start an infection elsewhere? The insurgents would have had a week to get away before the disease became started to become obvious. Interestingly, at least one Chinese politician suggest that this is exactly what the USA did. People always love to have someone(else) to blame. Having the "USA Virus" would have been much better propaganda that the current "Chinese Virus".

Indeed if the Chinese had planned this, there would have be no Chinese infection (especially in a significant medical products manufacturing area), no need to shut down some of their regions, weld doors shut, and lose trade due to closed factories.

But let's look at how some other governments all around the world dealt with initial exposure, the response initially seemed quite similar. "It nothing much, just like a cold or flu", "It won't last long", "Don't disrupt the economy". I don't think they had been subverted by a Chinese plan, they were just doing what politicians do everywhere.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 22, 2020, 04:03:38 AM
Quote
Do you not think that it might not help China's position in the world the more all the other countries are weakened by the virus and its effects?
are you serious?
Yes, I am, while I know China may also be somewhat weakened, it only stands to reason that the more other countries are weakened, the stronger you are relatively, which may be another reason China isn't concerned with being too forthcoming.
So basically it seems you are saying that China knew that these countries would handle the outbreak much more poorly than they did? With all this analysis and planning, why start the outbreak in China in the first place, where they would surely carry the flak? Why not just put some people out on a few international flights and let them start an infection elsewhere? The insurgents would have had a week to get away before the disease became started to become obvious. Interestingly, at least one Chinese politician suggest that this is exactly what the USA did. People always love to have someone(else) to blame. Having the "USA Virus" would have been much better propaganda that the current "Chinese Virus".

Indeed if the Chinese had planned this, there would have be no Chinese infection (especially in a significant medical products manufacturing area), no need to shut down some of their regions, weld doors shut, and lose trade due to closed factories.

But let's look at how some other governments all around the world dealt with initial exposure, the response initially seemed quite similar. "It nothing much, just like a cold or flu", "It won't last long", "Don't disrupt the economy". I don't think they had been subverted by a Chinese plan, they were just doing what politicians do everywhere.
Please read what I said.

I did not say that China planned and purposely released the virus.  I am saying that once it was started I don't believe that they would be above taking advantage of the situation to the extend they could.  So please don't add to what I said.

Quote
"It nothing much, just like a cold or flu", "It won't last long"
Yeah, or like "it's not transmissible from human to human" as we were being told by the Chinese before we had any evidence we could see for ourselves?

Quote
So basically it seems you are saying that China knew that these countries would handle the outbreak much more poorly than they did?
Where are you getting all these ideas?  Again, it's not from what I said.

Whether the pandemic is/was handled well or not, there is in fact much damage to life and the economy.  The Chinese did not help in their response, to the point they even denied that it could be spread human to human.  If they had been more forthcoming to begin with then some of the damage may have been mitigated.  Do you believe the Chinese cared about mitigating the effects in other countries once their country was damaged?  Once their country was damaged, I think they would have no problem seeing other countries damaged so that they wouldn't lose whatever world dominance they had. 

Quote
People always love to have someone(else) to blame.
And some people seem to want to place blame everywhere except where it is due.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 22, 2020, 04:35:32 AM
So John, was there a major outbreak of Ebola, smallpox, or anything else from Maryland after the critical report was released?

I've no idea. Very probably it would have been hushed up anyway - all nations do that in matters of perceived national security or embarrassment.

Quote
Did the Chinese equivalent to the CDC investigate the Wuhan lab, and did the Chinese police themselves and shut it down?

Very probably, but given how secretive China is about such matters there's no way for me  to know. But again and in any event where is the evidence that this lab was actively working on SARS-CoV-2? You seem obsessed with this idea while ignoring the much more credible explanation of a simple species jump of a zoonotic virus, which we know happens regularly in China and elsewhere (eg Middle East with MERS) and with many other examples see eg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQWwWq3ofA

Quote
Why do you make statements like this
By all means have an investigation and genuine good luck to it, but I just cannot see it revealing much of value.

I, for one, am not giving China any kind of 'pass'. All we're doing is to recognise the futility of thinking an investigation is likely to uncover anything of value in deciding the origin of the virus. Given the secrecy and bureaucracy of China I just can't see it happening.

The real villains of the piece who I suspect are the local party officials who tried to keep the lid on the initial SARS-2 outbreak and who in all probability have already been shot, as is the way with such transgressions in China. They do things their own way, right or wrong, amd are not going to be influenced by other countries, including the US.

Quote
And naive to think that evidence isn't there or can't be found and nothing can be done.

Not nearly as naive as those who might think that it can.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 22, 2020, 05:03:36 AM
So John, was there a major outbreak of Ebola, smallpox, or anything else from Maryland after the critical report was released?

I've no idea. Very probably it would have been hushed up anyway - all nations do that in matters of perceived national security or embarrassment.

Quote
Did the Chinese equivalent to the CDC investigate the Wuhan lab, and did the Chinese police themselves and shut it down?

Very probably, but given how secretive China is about such matters there's no way for me  to know.

You seriously believe that there may have been an Ebola outbreak in the US that was covered up?

You seriously believe that the Wuhan lab was shut down?  Even the Chinese don't claim that.

Quote
Not nearly as naive as those who might think that it can.
Sorry John, I'm having a hard time taking you seriously.  Even if you studied a little about viruses and consider yourself an expert, you seem to be ignorant of certain facts, you seem somewhat ignorant of geopolitical matters,  and you compare burgers to viruses.   :lol:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 22, 2020, 05:25:04 AM

The real villains of the piece who I suspect are the local party officials who tried to keep the lid on the initial SARS-2 outbreak and who in all probability have already been shot, as is the way with such transgressions in China. They do things their own way, right or wrong, amd are not going to be influenced by other countries, including the US.
And what about the doctors that can show that it was all just an innocent species jump of the virus and verify how it started?  I guess they've all been shot too?

I wonder why some people just don't trust them.  :???:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 22, 2020, 05:55:21 AM
Quote
But again and in any event where is the evidence that this lab was actively working on SARS-CoV-2?
What evidence do you have that they weren't?  Even if there was evidence that COVID-19 originated in this lab, would you acknowledge it?  You even dismissed the evidence presented in the publications that were referred to here.


A couple more facts:

Area of China: 9,596,961 km2 (3,705,407 sq mi)

Population of China: about 1.4 billion or so

Area of Wuhan (including all the surrounding area): 8,494.41 km2 (3,279.71 sq mi) (about .09% of China)

Population of Wuhan: 11 million (about 0.8% the population of China)

This would seem to give some idea of just how coincidental that the virus would have seemed to start in the city that had the virus lab that was under suspicion.  I guess the farmer who got infected from the guano that he was using, or whoever the first noted patient was,  just happened to live in or near that city.  That would seem to be circumstantial evidence.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 22, 2020, 06:04:02 AM
[...]Do you believe the Chinese cared about mitigating the effects in other countries once their country was damaged?  Once their country was damaged, I think they would have no problem seeing other countries damaged so that they wouldn't lose whatever world dominance they had.
Sorry, I did misread your post in part. However, I will comment about your quote above.

"At least five governments have reported that the US has diverted safety equipment in transit to them. "In what one German official called “an act of modern piracy”, 200,000 masks bound for Berlin from China were confiscated en route in Thailand and then diverted to the US on April 3.""

To paraphrase your response above "Do you believe the US cared about mitigating the effects in other countries once their country was damaged?"

It would be more productive to fix our own internal pandemic response plans and attempt to help China and others fix their systems to where all could respond better and trust the information. I'm sure the people who are in the next pandemic would prefer that course of action, but I have my doubts that anyone will be talking to each other too much for quite a while.


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 22, 2020, 06:25:10 AM
[...]Do you believe the Chinese cared about mitigating the effects in other countries once their country was damaged?  Once their country was damaged, I think they would have no problem seeing other countries damaged so that they wouldn't lose whatever world dominance they had.
Sorry, I did misread your post in part. However, I will comment about your quote above.

"At least five governments have reported that the US has diverted safety equipment in transit to them. "In what one German official called “an act of modern piracy”, 200,000 masks bound for Berlin from China were confiscated en route in Thailand and then diverted to the US on April 3.""

To paraphrase your response above "Do you believe the US cared about mitigating the effects in other countries once their country was damaged?"

It would be more productive to fix our own internal pandemic response plans and attempt to help China and others fix their systems to where all could respond better and trust the information. I'm sure the people who are in the next pandemic would prefer that course of action, but I have my doubts that anyone will be talking to each other too much for quite a while.

Totally debunked about mask being diverted from Germany; It never happened, yes headlines went out around the world because The left-wing politician, who represents Germany's Social Democratic Party, had described the shipment's disappearance as 'an act of modern piracy'. Even the very left-leaning Washington Post corrected this.


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 22, 2020, 07:13:47 AM
....? Why not just put some people out on a few international flights and let them start an infection elsewhere? ...
Now that wouldn't look fishy at all.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 22, 2020, 08:13:32 AM
Totally debunked about mask being diverted from Germany; It never happened, yes headlines went out around the world because The left-wing politician, who represents Germany's Social Democratic Party, had described the shipment's disappearance as 'an act of modern piracy'. Even the very left-leaning Washington Post corrected this.
Interesting. I found that article, thanks. There are missing a million missing masks but not from 3M. However, while looking, I found reports from Canada about this practice with a shipment alleged to have ended up Ohio. Claims by France and other NATO countries have been raised elsewhere, but in the French case it appears it was not theft as such because the French pay after delivery. Apparently "Americans" paid large sums of cash to buy the delivery while it sat on a tarmac when in transit to France. Not piracy, I would imagine, as technically the supplies was still owned by the supplier until payment, and probably hard do anything about legally, but I'm sure it p'ed the French off no end.

Our (right wing) Health Minister addressing the House Of Representatives (like the Congress, I guess) during Question Time: "I want to be honest. There have been some practices where masks bound for Australia have been diverted by countries at borders." Similar to the other alleged events involving the US, but to be fair, he did not name names in parliament, so it could have been any country.

I think the incidents may be by "Americans", but I think it is likely to be about profiteering, rather than government policy. Still the perception that appears to be forming about perceived US COVID behaviors in interesting the context of this thread.

On the topic of COVID profiteering. I was amused when a person tried to return $10,000 worth of toilet paper and hand sanitiser to a local supermarket because eBay had cut off his account when he tried to sell the stuff at inflated prices. He was apparently unhappy that the supermarket wouldn't give him a refund because he had paid a lot of people to collect it while shopper limits were in force. :grin:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 22, 2020, 08:41:32 AM
....? Why not just put some people out on a few international flights and let them start an infection elsewhere? ...
Now that wouldn't look fishy at all.
No, it wouldn't. There are lots of Chinese tourists going all around the world (over 2.3 million visited the USA during 2015) and they tend to travel in groups.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 22, 2020, 09:25:05 AM
Take it out but not leave any behind.........suuuuuuuuuuuure.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 22, 2020, 02:42:01 PM
Sorry John, I'm having a hard time taking you seriously. 

Pot, kettle, black comes to mind. Look I'm interested only in the science here, not in stooping to personal insults - happy to leave that to you. And I'd much rather  let the science speak for itself than blindly follow the instructions of some Fox fake news polemic.

If you are interested in the science then tale a look at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQWwWq3ofA

This is a good solid lecture by an experienced and well-known virologist who really knows his stuff and that was actually only uploaded yesterday (21st April). Parts of it may be a little heavy-duty but much of it isn't difficult for the lay person to follow. The whole video is relevant to anyone interested in newly emerging viral threats, but probably not many here will want to stay the whole course so:

The section on SARS-CoV-2 starts around the 1hr 10min mark, but if you just want to cut to the chase about the origin of this specific virus then jump to around 1hr 15:40 point and listen for just 2-3 minutes.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 22, 2020, 03:05:43 PM

Pot, kettle, black comes to mind. Look I'm interested only in the science here, not in stooping to personal insults - happy to leave that to you. And I'd much rather  let the science speak for itself than blindly follow the instructions of some Fox fake news polemic.

Sorry John, no insult intended.  But along with science I'm also interested in facts.

The facts are there were no outbreaks of Ebola, smallpox, or anything else from Ft. Detrick as you said there may have been.

The fact is the Chinese did not police themselves and shut down the Wuhan lab as you said was probable.

The facts are that nations have been influencing each other via various means; diplomatic, clandestine, warfare, etc. every since nations have existed.  And intelligence agencies have discovered facts that you seem to believe can't be found.

Part of point concerning the difference between the Chinese operated lab in Wuhan, and the lab at Ft Detrick was to demonstrate how differently open societies and closed societies operate, that seems to have been lost on you in your efforts to create some kind of moral equivalence.

You can disregard certain news outlets all you want, no matter how much they may prove to be correct, but that's part of the problem; picking and choosing what you want to believe.

Maybe your insults were more discreet, things to the effect of "I marvel at people's worldview" and saying it's due to "anti-China bias", but your condescension is there.

The fallacies of your analogies have been pointed out, and all you do is double down.

I could go much farther into the difference between open and closed (dare I say "godless"?) societies that shoot anyone who states facts, but it would most likely would be to no effect.  So I'll just point out that the differences are burgers to viruses.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 22, 2020, 06:47:23 PM
Oklahoma governor Kevin Stitt wants to begin reopening the state quickly-- but Stillwater isn't following suit.

Stillwater city manager Norman McNickle released a statement Wednesday explaining the city's plan to continue its shelter-in-place policy until at least April 30.

"Regardless of what Governor Kevin Stitt said at his April 22 press conference, Stillwater will follow its existing Emergency Proclamation, which includes the shelter-in-place order that ends April 30," McNickle said in a statement. "There are ongoing discussions with local officials about reopening businesses and services. Stillwater City Council will discuss the issue at its next meeting April 27. City officials did not receive advanced notification of the Governor’s intentions."

Stillwater mayor Will Joyce had a similar message in a series of tweets on Wednesday.

"Governor Stitt released an outline today of his plan for rolling back the state's social distancing guidelines," Joyce said in a tweet. "I appreciate that he intends to rely on data and take a phased approach based on that data. The charts and figures he used today are not readily available on the state website, and we do not have access to that data for our local area. We continue to work with our local health officials to see whether current local conditions meet the CDC, national and state guidance.

"That being the case, the emergency declarations in place in Stillwater will remain effective through at least April 30. The businesses identified by the Governor as opening this week will remain closed in Stillwater for the time being. We have meetings scheduled this week to talk with local businesses, officials, and other groups to determine the appropriate steps for our community. The City Council will also meet Monday, April 27 to discuss these issues. COVID-19 continues to be a serious public health crisis in our city and our state. It is imperative that we all take all possible precautions to keep it from spreading. Please stay home and keep our community safe."

This statement comes hours after Stitt put a plan in place to have some Oklahoma businesses reopen as soon as April 24.

According to ok.gov, Stillwater currently has 22 COVID-19 cases, 0 deaths and 16 recoveries.
FROM:  https://www.ocolly.com/news/stillwater-to-continue-shelter-in-place-order-despite-stitts-plan/article_13ae59fe-84de-11ea-835d-bf73c6deca78.html (https://www.ocolly.com/news/stillwater-to-continue-shelter-in-place-order-despite-stitts-plan/article_13ae59fe-84de-11ea-835d-bf73c6deca78.html)

It looks like Oklahoma will enter phase 1 of reopening its economy in 2 different stages beginning Friday:

https://www.fox23.com/news/local/stitt-announces-plan-reopen-oklahoma/B7XFT2YNLZFLNDG3V7AHEM25B4/
April 24, 2020, the following businesses can reopen:

    Personal care businesses, such as hair salons, barbershops, spas, nail salons, and pet groomers can reopen for appointments only, must adhere to sanitation protocols, and follow guidelines posted on the Oklahoma Department of Commerce website regarding social distancing between customers and visitors at personal care businesses.
    State parks and outdoor recreation should be reopened
    Grocery stores should continue to maintain hours for vulnerable populations

May 1, 2020, the following businesses can reopen:

    Dining, entertainment, movie theatres and sporting venues can operate using CDC recommended social distancing and sanitation protocols.
    Gyms can reopen if they adhere to CDC-recommended social distancing and sanitation protocols.
    Places of worship can reopen for in-person meetings or worship if they leave every other row or pew open and adhere to CDC-recommended social distancing and sanitation protocols, plus the recommended guidelines from the Oklahoma Department of Commerce.
    Bars should remain closed.
    Tattoo Parlors can reopen for appointments only and must adhere to sanitation protocols and social distancing protocols for distancing between customers and visitors.'
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 22, 2020, 07:33:04 PM
Oklahoma governor Kevin Stitt wants to begin reopening the state quickly-- but Stillwater isn't following suit.
And the way it should be. Delegation is essential, whether the calls made turn out for better or worse. Unless something overtly stupid is about to incur, leave it to the lowest level. They're paid to govern.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on April 22, 2020, 09:53:43 PM
It must be remembered that the measures put in place are to reduce the critically ill / mortality rate to numbers that (put your government here) can be coped with.

Unless it mutates to a non-pathogenic form this virus will take its long term tally.
Restaurants re-opening with a two metre distancing policy, serving a handful of customers who have a 'app' that says they are probably clear ?

Anyone who is still working in the hospitality trade had better look elsewhere for a couple years.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 22, 2020, 10:41:08 PM
Oklahoma governor Kevin Stitt wants to begin reopening the state quickly-- but Stillwater isn't following suit.
And the way it should be. Delegation is essential, whether the calls made turn out for better or worse. Unless something overtly stupid is about to incur, leave it to the lowest level. They're paid to govern.

Oklahoma Gov. Stitt was asked if he would force cities to follow his plans. He said “he would cross that bridge when he got there.”  This could be interesting.  But the governor never objected to the cities shutting things down locally before he did statewide.

The Oklahoma City mayor is also not going along with Gov. Stitt's plan for now.  More on the governor's multi phase plan:

Gov. Stitt says in Phase One, Oklahomans should continue to do the following: avoid social gatherings that don't allow for social distancing and minimize non-essential travel. He says employers should create phases for people to return to work, while keeping common areas closed and honoring requests and accommodations for high risk employees.

Gov. Stitt continued by adding that personal care businesses can reopen Friday for appointment only, and must have strict sanitation. This would include such businesses as pet groomers, hair salons, spas, etc.

Grocery stores should continue to have special hours for the most vulnerable in the community.

Beginning May 1, Gov. Stitt says the following businesses can reopen, if they comply to all of the precautions:
-Restaurants
-Movie Theaters
-Gyms
-Churches
-Sporting Venues

During Phase One, bars will remain closed, says Gov. Stitt.

Gov. Stitt says it is important to note that if hospital data remain manageable for two weeks then we will go onto Phase Two.

During Phase two, the most vulnerable in the community will still partake in implementing precautions. Sporting events and bars will be able to reopen, and funerals and weddings can resume with more than 10 people.

If hospital data continues to be manageable for another two weeks after the beginning of Phase Two, then Phase 3 will be implemented.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 23, 2020, 11:57:37 AM
The county I live in has 3 cases of the virus which means in 966 square miles populated by 22,000 people we have a grand total of .014% infection rate and zero deaths. Yet this morning I went to get some sheetrock mud and got hollered at for going in the wrong door, the same door I've been going in for 5 years? I feel like the dog who just peed on the living room carpet, I'm going to start carrying a rolled up newpaper to hand to people to spank me for doing the same things I've done forever.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 23, 2020, 12:02:14 PM
There were at least 30 people at the park yesterday playing basketball and standing around.
Then one, cuts through the neighbors yard and comes within 2 feet of those of us talking very far away from each other.

I coughed as he went by.

Looks like Minnesota distance learning the rest of the year.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 23, 2020, 02:57:38 PM
Quote
The county I live in has 3 cases of the virus which means in 966 square miles populated by 22,000 people we have a grand total of .014% infection rate and zero deaths.
remember, so many places thought it wont happen to us
next minute
this is an invisible contagious deadly virus that needs to be taken seriously
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 23, 2020, 03:55:58 PM
So is driving my car but I do it almost every day. I had the H1N1 in MX, it didn't get me and it's not likely this one will either. Now, my high blood pressure from being treated like a petulant child may kill me. The count I saw today was for every 1 death in the US, 556 jobs have been lost, yes, it's a deadly, but not in mortality, it's deadly in lives destroyed, small businesses lost. And, you notice that none of the people making these rules has lost their job or paycheck.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 23, 2020, 04:31:28 PM
Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I think places like Oklahoma are going to do better than expected as they reopen.  It's seems many of the predictions have been overly dire, which may be understandable considering how many unknowns there are and how unsettled the science is.  I am a little sympathetic to the politicians (you won't hear me say that very often) as they have to live with the consequences and take the blame, no matter what choice they make.  (But then, they'll just pass on the blame, so maybe I'm not that sympathetic.) 

I am afraid that our kids and grandkids will be living with the effects of our decision to protect our own lives to the extent we have.  But then, there is always an opportunity to learn some things from this experience that may make their lives better.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 23, 2020, 04:42:00 PM
I believe this covers it fairly well:
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 23, 2020, 04:46:10 PM
I am a little sympathetic to the politicians (you won't hear me say that very often) as they have to live with the consequences and take the blame, no matter what choice they make. 
Understatement of the century.  :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 23, 2020, 11:32:25 PM
I believe this covers it fairly well:
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation

It appears the Oklahoma State Medical Association does not agree.  Maybe it's concerned on April 18th 45% of ICU beds were available.  Now at 35%:

Oklahoma State Medical Association
Yesterday at 5:47 PM ·

Oklahoma State Medical Association President George Monks, M.D. said, “We are concerned Gov. Stitt’s plan to reopen the state is hasty at best. Even without widespread testing, Oklahoma has seen an ongoing growth in the number of cases, hospitalizations and deaths in the past week alone. According to the Trump administration, states should not begin this process until they’ve seen a two-week downward trajectory in COVID-19 cases, and we are far from this point.

"Oklahoma’s physicians, nurses and other healthcare workers continue to care for those who are ill from this savage disease. To increase the danger of widespread infection by opening prematurely not only discounts their efforts, but also the sacrifices made by their loved ones.

The measures the state previously put in place have made a difference in the fight against coronavirus, and we applaud Oklahoma City Mayor David Holt, Tulsa Mayor GT Bynum and Norman Mayor Breea Clark for their continued commitment to protecting public safety. We urge Gov. Stitt to follow suit."
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 24, 2020, 10:50:51 AM
Like I said, you notice all the people making the rules are still getting a regular paycheck. Cut that off and well see if their opinions (and that's all they are, wild guess's) change.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 24, 2020, 11:36:39 AM
This was posted on local school teacher FB page:

There are those wanting to reopen yet they’re being classified as selfish. There are those that rely on all kinds of people to supply them while they cower in fear at home. Isn’t that being selfish too?

You expect your garbage to be picked up, you expect the grocery store to be open so you can get milk, you expect truck drivers to supply the stores, you expect farmers, meatpackers, fruit and vegetable pickers all to keep food in that grocery store.

You expect Amazon to still ship all the things you’re ordering while you sit at home shopping. You expect the delivery driver to leave it on your doorstep. You expect your phone to work, your power to stay on, and your mail to show up rain, sleet, or shine.  And most important, you expect the doctors and nurses to be there if you need them although many of them across the country have been furloughed because their units and services have been shut down while the entire system focuses only on COVID19.

The whole premise of shelter in place is based on the arrogant idea that others must risk their health so you can protect yours. There is nothing virtuous about ignoring the largely invisible army required to allow people to shelter in place.

I know there are some of you that are screaming mad about what I just said but stop and really think about what is allowing you to stay safe in your home.
I truly believe that with some common sense on my part, I could easily go back to life as it was. I want to go to restaurants, I want to shop at the little store just up the road.

And yes, I could catch COVID-19. I could also catch the flu or a cold.  I could get run over by a bus.  I could get struck by lightning. We take risks everyday. If you choose to stay home, that is absolutely your choice. And please don’t start screaming at me about how I’ll just spread it. Why are you worried? You won’t get it because you’re staying in your home. Are you going to shelter in place every time a new strand of the flu happens?

Our economy can’t withstand much more of this. If our economy collapses, so will the rest of the world’s. If that happens, you will see the rise of tyrants.
I absolutely don’t want people to die...from COVID or anything else. I want people to live.

But sheltering in place is not living.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 24, 2020, 11:56:55 AM
Well said, there needs to be a return to sanity.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 24, 2020, 12:12:45 PM
Well said, there needs to be a return to sanity.

Yes, agree we need to start using some common sense especially in light of antibody reports both east and west coast this virus was likely circulating 2 months earlier than expected and the world didn't come to an end.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 24, 2020, 01:54:21 PM
[youtube]https://youtu.be/wVs5AyjzwRM[/youtube]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 24, 2020, 02:52:32 PM
you guys are completely missing the point
everyone should pretend like they actually have it
so to break the chain of transmission and to stop it spreading, you stay home to keep others safe
otherwise its just going to keep on circulating which means social distancing measures will be in place for longer
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DRoberts on April 24, 2020, 02:53:46 PM
 Thanks. I needed a laugh
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 24, 2020, 02:54:52 PM
its no laughing matter
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 24, 2020, 02:59:35 PM
Yes, agree we need to start using some common sense especially in light of antibody reports both east and west coast this virus was likely circulating 2 months earlier than expected and the world didn't come to an end.
Even here I know at least two people who I regularly interact with who think they've had it, one as early as late December.  I remember they described it as like nothing they've ever had before, and that was before we even heard of Wuhan as I recall.  If they had it there's a very good chance I and many others I know were infected.  Of course that's all circumstantial until there's more testing.  I wouldn't bet one way or the other.

Well said, there needs to be a return to sanity.
I'd settle for a return to normal.  :-)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 24, 2020, 03:09:14 PM
a return to normal will see a second wave and then you will have to have stricter social distancing again (and probably stricter than now to flaten the curve) so that the hospital system is not overrun
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 24, 2020, 03:10:58 PM
Thanks. I needed a laugh

I think that's still allowed in most locations.  In fact don't they say that's the best medicine?

I think someone, CW2274 if I recall, tried to start a thread with lighthearted news, and as I recall someone else said it wasn't the time for good news.

Good night, don't we need some relief?

For instance I read a headline that said: "5 tigers, 3 lions, and 2 pet cats have all tested positive for the coronavirus in New York", and now I need some kind of humor or something to get that stupid song out of my head: "Lions and Tigers and Burgers, Oh My!  Lions and Tigers and Burgers, Oh My!"
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 24, 2020, 03:45:40 PM
Been thinking about it, if the polls aren’t safe to go to in November, maybe we could all vote at Walmart. Home Depot or Lowes .. seems perfectly safe there. Walmart's are so safe and busy they had to hire more people.  :lol:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 24, 2020, 03:54:49 PM
you guys are completely missing the point
everyone should pretend like they actually have it
so to break the chain of transmission and to stop it spreading, you stay home to keep others safe
otherwise its just going to keep on circulating which means social distancing measures will be in place for longer
Except your logic is exactly wrong, you're extending the "season" by isolating. Several studies in NY and CA are showing 50-80 times more people have had it than previous thought and developed anti-bodies which is the way herd immunity is created, by association, not isolation. The fact that so many people had it and didn't know also makes the death percentage dramatically lower than forecast. Yes, high risk people should isolate, I'm 77 with asthma so am high risk but I'm not concerned in the least. I take my temp several times a day and before I'm going to be in public and check my blood oxygen levels and I don't have a problem. Now, if you want to crawl under the covers and hide, you're completely free to do that, just don't expect me to also put my life on hold.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DRoberts on April 24, 2020, 03:57:56 PM
Thanks. I needed a laugh

I think that's still allowed in most locations.  In fact don't they say that's the best medicine?

I think someone, CW2274 if I recall, tried to start a thread with lighthearted news, and as I recall someone else said it wasn't the time for good news.

Good night, don't we need some relief?

For instance I read a headline that said: "5 tigers, 3 lions, and 2 pet cats have all tested positive for the coronavirus in New York", and now I need some kind of humor or something to get that stupid song out of my head: "Lions and Tigers and Burgers, Oh My!  Lions and Tigers and Burgers, Oh My!"

Thanks. I agree. This lady isn't mocking the seriousness of the pandemic. She is satirizing. I still have a sense of humor even though I am in an at-risk group.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 24, 2020, 04:35:17 PM
Thanks. I needed a laugh
I think someone, CW2274 if I recall, tried to start a thread with lighthearted news, and as I recall someone else said it wasn't the time for good news.
Yeah, it was me. I think it took one, maybe two threads into it til someone pooped in the punch bowl...so I removed it...then was lectured to (again) like a 5 year old because I wasn't patient enough.
That doesn't work well with me.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 24, 2020, 04:44:20 PM
Some of the things I find encouraging are simple things like this:

FedEx driver wipes down packages for at risk girl:

[youtube]https://youtu.be/g8BuqxS_h5A[/youtube]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 24, 2020, 04:49:11 PM
Frankly I've lost my sense of humor, I used to enjoy going shopping and chatting and kidding with the checkers and others. I usually wear a funny tee shirt and people often comment. Now, the checkers are in a plexiglass cage with masks, I'm forbidden to move from the red square on the floor until they "release" me to leave the checkout lane, there's no kidding, no niceties, nothing pleasant there. I'm stone faced, I don't talk, I don't respond unless absolutely necessary, "thank you" isn't in the vocabulary any more. Everyone peers at each other like they have the black plague when we used to exchange smiles, now it's brutal survival.

Most of all I've lost my sense of optimism, we were coming off three years of very positive growth for Americans, wages were up, businesses were doing well, down here a number of new small businesses were opening. Now, even the lottery is cut in half leaving little optimism for even trying to win it. My friends in MX and Canada are in no better circumstances and all this is for what is beginning to look like little more than a nasty virus. My optimism has tanked, I see ripples beyond my years here in this place.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 24, 2020, 04:51:12 PM

:lol: Oh, that was priceless...and spot on! Great find!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 24, 2020, 04:59:12 PM
Most of all I've lost my sense of optimism, we were coming off three years of very positive growth for Americans, wages were up, businesses were doing well,
Besides the "dying" part of all this, this really is the salt in the wound. I can only imagine if this had happened several years ago what the economy would look like. "No soup for you..." Hopefully it'll never come to that.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 24, 2020, 05:12:04 PM
you guys are completely missing the point
everyone should pretend like they actually have it
so to break the chain of transmission and to stop it spreading,

I thought we were all supposed to pretend like we were already dead, so it would go away and leave us alone.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 24, 2020, 05:37:06 PM
The 4th largest city in America 6.3 million just reported its 35th death. The first one without underlining health issues. Houston you have a problem. It’s now mandatory to wear a mask for 30 days!

Flu season kills 1,700 in Houston using their own table of 29 deaths per 100,000 people.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on April 24, 2020, 06:44:10 PM
"There are Lies, damn lies and statistics !"

This was being said 6 weeks ago [ Source (https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/npr/2020/03/10/813641072/u-s-flu-season-beginning-to-ease-modelers-say/) ]
Quote
The CDC estimates that there have been 20,000 to 40,000 [flu] deaths in the United States so far this year.

Just for comparison, that's a thousand times more deaths in the United States than have been blamed on the coronavirus so far.
Sadly Times change ... by a thousandfold
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 24, 2020, 07:59:15 PM
STATEMENT BY MAYOR WILL JOYCE REGARDING CURRENT STATUS OF COVID-19 ERADICATION EFFORTS IN STILLWATER

Released:Apr 24, 2020
Mayor Will Joyce announced today that the current “shelter in place” order in effect for the City of Stillwater will be permitted to expire at 11:59 p.m. on Thursday, April 30, 2020.  On May 1, 2020, those types of businesses identified in Phase One of Governor Kevin Stitt’s “Open Up, Remain Safe” (OURS) Program will be permitted to open under guidelines and regulations established by the City in a new proclamation that will be issued early next week.

Mayor Joyce, like his peers in other Oklahoma cities, expressed reservations about the timing of relaxing social distancing requirements, especially given the continued absence of a vaccine or treatment for COVID-19. “As Mayor Bynum noted, Tulsa and other areas of the state are not seeing consistent declines, but with other communities resuming these activities, the public health benefit of our current measures will be effectively nullified. Without a clear benefit to public health, it would be unfair to require Stillwater businesses to stay closed while similar enterprises in other cities were allowed to open.”

According to current data from the Oklahoma State Department of Health, Stillwater and the Payne County meet the “gating criteria” established by the Center for Disease Control (CDC) for decline in the reporting of new cases over the past fourteen days. Stillwater Medical Center has indicated that it can currently treat patients without crisis care, and local testing resources are able to keep up with current demand. “Stillwater residents have done a great job of helping us flatten the curve locally and to protect our medical system from an overwhelming surge,” said Mayor Joyce, “Oklahoma State University’s quick decision-making also contributed significantly to limiting the spread of COVID-19 in Stillwater to date.”

Mayor Joyce stressed that COVID-19 has not gone away and as these restrictions are relaxed, it will be even more important for residents to be vigilant in their efforts to protect themselves and others from the spread of this deadly virus. “We are continually monitoring the data, and if there are indications of a sharp increase in cases or hospitalizations, we will again act quickly to intervene as necessary,” he stated. One key factor to eradicating COVID-19 is the wearing of face coverings whenever in public or when social distancing is not possible. The Mayor noted that the upcoming proclamation establishing guidelines and regulations for businesses and gatherings will stress the availability and wearing of masks in public situations as a condition of re-opening. Read more about the City's encouragement of wearing face coverings at http://stillwater.org/news/view/id/558

Those businesses and other entities planning to re-open on May 1 with the expiration of the current shelter-in-place order should watch for the upcoming proclamation.  In the interim, the Mayor recommends that the Oklahoma Department of Health guidelines issued this week for personal service entities and state guidelines for retail businesses be consulted and followed by those businesses intending to re-open.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 25, 2020, 12:47:54 AM
The 4th largest city in America 6.3 million just reported its 35th death. The first one without underlining health issues. Houston you have a problem. It’s now mandatory to wear a mask for 30 days!

Flu season kills 1,700 in Houston using their own table of 29 deaths per 100,000 people.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
   BUT the covid19 virus kills .  The flu you are talking about,  has a treatment that works,   . this thing has killed in the uSA 50,000 and more.
don't be a pansy, wear the F mask when out and about fo r30 days. I have been doing it since the middle of Feb
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: kan6526 on April 25, 2020, 08:57:15 AM
Hello everyone! I am Taiwanese ,People with bad English.
We have good luck and masks
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 25, 2020, 01:29:40 PM
Payne County, where Stillwater is, has had it first CORVID-19 death as of Saturday, the 25th.  It was a man in the 65-and-older range, among the 18 total cases linked to Cushing. Positive cases in the county have moved up to 43 for the 17th largest amount in the state.  As of Saturday, Oklahoma has 3193 cases with 194 deaths.  Meanwhile, OU and OSU plan to hold classes on campus this fall. OU expects to utilize larger classrooms to space students out, increase on-campus COVID-19 testing, encourage use of masks and conduct thorough cleaning.  Summer classes will remain online.   OSU sports doctor has seen positive indicators that lead him to believe there could be football this fall.
https://www.si.com/college/oklahomastate/football/fall-classes-on-campus-at-oklahoma-state-could-mean-football-being-played (https://www.si.com/college/oklahomastate/football/fall-classes-on-campus-at-oklahoma-state-could-mean-football-being-played)

It may seem late for such an offering,  but is in time for the city of Stillwater to start opening up on May. 1  The city will give away masks on Tuesday in the lobby of the police station.
http://stillwater.org/news/view/id/558 (http://stillwater.org/news/view/id/558)

Stillwater Mayor Will Joyce's latest comments as of Friday:

The decisions we've been dealing with the last few days have been the most difficult of the past six weeks. When is the right time to ease social distancing? What is the best way to protect public health? Which way of the looking at the data is the most accurate?

The Stillwater community has done a wonderful job of helping flatten the curve and protect our local health case system. Our hospital is not overwhelmed right now, and they've been able to prepare better for the potential of increased cases.

But I am not confident that this is the right time to re-open businesses in Stillwater. Several areas of the state are still seeing daily increases. Our community is a crossroads, only an hour from OKC and Tulsa, and we attract many visitors from around the region. We have been looking at data from those other places, too, and it's not all as positive as ours.
At the same time, keeping businesses closed in Stillwater while the rest of the state is open provides very little public health benefit. Many of our residents will visit other areas with higher infection rates to shop or dine, then return home. The virus doesn't die off at the city limits.

Given all of the circumstances, we don't have much choice but to comply with the Governor's plan. We will talk extensively at our City Council meeting on Monday night about the specific restrictions that should be in place to ensure maximum safety as we enter phase one. Elderly and vulnerable individuals will be asked to continue sheltering in place. Masks will be required. Physical distancing rules will remain.

We still have work to do to keep COVID-19 from spreading in our community. I will continue to make every effort possible to protect the health of this city, and I know that every resident of Stillwater will commit to do the same.






Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 25, 2020, 02:09:00 PM
When the State tells you it’s safe to go to Home Depot to buy a sponge but dangerous to go and buy a flower, it’s not about your health.

When the State shuts down millions of private businesses but doesn’t lay off a single government employee, it’s not about your health.

When the State bans dentists because its unsafe, but deems an abortion visit is safe, it’s not about your health.

When the State prevents you from buying cucumber seeds because it’s dangerous, but allows personal lottery ticket sales, it’s not about your health.

When the State tells you it’s dangerous to go golf alone, fish alone or be in a motor boat alone, but the Governor can get his stage make-up done,
and hair done for 5 TV appearances a week, it’s not about your health.

When the state puts you IN a jail cell for walking in a park with your child because it’s too dangerous but lets criminals OUT of jail cells for their
health- It’s not about YOUR health!

When the state tells you it’s too dangerous to get treated by a doctor for chiropractic or physical therapy treatments yet deems a liquor store
essential- It’s not about your health!

When the State lets you go to the grocery store or hardware store but is demanding mail-in voting, ITS NOT ABOUT YOUR HEALTH.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 25, 2020, 02:14:33 PM
Hello everyone! I am Taiwanese ,People with bad English.
We have good luck and masks

Hi Kan,

I suspect there's more to it than luck, especially as you don't exactly have the WHO on your side.

I've heard you've taken proactive measures.  Are you shut down and staying home to the extent most other countries are?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 25, 2020, 02:45:56 PM
Taiwan is the model response
they had the first case outside of China (they are right next to Chine)
Their leader has a background in epidemics
they quaranteed people entering the country  and people tested positive were isolated and contact traced
even hostesses on an aeroplane were in full ppe gear

they have not had to do go through lockdown and schools have remained open
kids have their hands and feet disinfected at arrival
disinfectant is sprayed in public places
they only have just 429 cases and 6 deaths
they took it seriously very early and acted fast and hard
We had a couple of Taiwanese students stay with us back in Feb
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 25, 2020, 03:05:21 PM
Taiwan is the model response
they had the first case outside of China (they are right next to Chine)
Their leader has a background in epidemics
they quaranteed people entering the country  and people tested positive were isolated and contact traced
even hostesses on an aeroplane were in full ppe gear

they have not had to do go through lockdown and schools have remained open
kids have their hands and feet disinfected at arrival
disinfectant is sprayed in public places
they only have just 429 cases and 6 deaths
they took it seriously very early and acted fast and hard
We had a couple of Taiwanese students stay with us back in Feb

Interesting that you see Taiwan as a model response when the haven't gone through lockdown, and you seem to be the biggest proponent of lockdown for the foreseeable future.

I guess the difference is they were able to see the problem and act quickly while China and the WHO continued to lie to the rest of the world about it for weeks or months?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 25, 2020, 03:10:16 PM
Quote
and you seem to be the biggest proponent of lockdown for the foreseeable future
not true

in my country we are about to come out of lockdown, because we went early and hard
and we are on track to elminate  covid19
and in a couple of weeks we will be down to level 2 lock down only
good news for us
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 25, 2020, 03:26:57 PM

and we are on track to elminate  covid19


That remains to be seen.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on April 25, 2020, 03:27:35 PM
When the State tells you it’s safe to go to Home Depot to buy a sponge but dangerous to go and buy a flower, it’s not about your health.

When the State shuts down millions of private businesses but doesn’t lay off a single government employee, it’s not about your health.

When the State bans dentists because its unsafe, but deems an abortion visit is safe, it’s not about your health.

When the State prevents you from buying cucumber seeds because it’s dangerous, but allows personal lottery ticket sales, it’s not about your health.

When the State tells you it’s dangerous to go golf alone, fish alone or be in a motor boat alone, but the Governor can get his stage make-up done,
and hair done for 5 TV appearances a week, it’s not about your health.

When the state puts you IN a jail cell for walking in a park with your child because it’s too dangerous but lets criminals OUT of jail cells for their
health- It’s not about YOUR health!

When the state tells you it’s too dangerous to get treated by a doctor for chiropractic or physical therapy treatments yet deems a liquor store
essential- It’s not about your health!

When the State lets you go to the grocery store or hardware store but is demanding mail-in voting, ITS NOT ABOUT YOUR HEALTH.

I think the individual state orders vary widely.  In California (one of the first states to enact state-wide stay-at-home), the list of essential functions/businesses was enumerated.  Liquor stores were not on the list.  Stores that sell food were on the list.  Auto repair and hardware were deemed essential.  Personal care like barber/hairdresser are not essential.  Restaurants open for take-out only.
With the orders in place since mid-March, our county (Santa Clara (https://www.sccgov.org/sites/covid19/Pages/dashboard.aspx)) has had mercifully few cases and deaths, despite having the first death in the USA in February and an area population of 1.9M.

You can gripe about the inconsistency of what is declared essential/non-essential, but the net effect on the spread of the disease (to which we're all vulnerable) has been successfully mitigated by the stay-at-home, wash your hands, stay 6 feet away, wear a face covering and our hospitals are not overwhelmed.  Yes, I regret all the economic impact to folks who lose jobs and thereby health insurance. I do not regret being unable to do other (non essential) things due to the stay-at-home order, and I'm glad our local and state governments acted early to 'flatten the curve'.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 25, 2020, 03:42:54 PM
I guess the difference is they were able to see the problem and act quickly while China and the WHO continued to lie to the rest of the world about it for weeks or months?

Just for the record, looking at reports, it appears that Taiwan attempted to do the right thing and warn the WHO and the world when they recognized the truth.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 25, 2020, 04:01:02 PM
and we are on track to elminate  covid19

Very unlikely I'm afraid. COVID-19 is now endemic around the world and will keep reappearing, even if/when the current outbreaks are dowsed as far as they can be. And we're very possibly stuck with this viral disease now for the indefinite future.

The reason that smallpox is eradicated (and polio is well on the way too) is a combination of widespread use of cheap and effective vaccines and the fact that unlike influenza, COVID-19 (& the original SARS, MERS) etc, there seems to be no animal reservoir from which eg a close relative of smallpox can easily jump species. (Yes, there are of course more distant animal pox viruses, but smallpox seems to have migrated to humans long enough ago in human evolution that the process (fortunately) can no longer easily be repeated because of genetic divergence, at least not to cause infections as serious as smallpox.)

So the future to keep COVID-19 infections at bay seems to be threefold:

1. Hope that an effective vaccine can be identified that can easily and cheaply be produced on the necessary scale. There are vaccines for many infections so one can be reasonably optimistic, but the search for a vaccine against eg HIV or malaria (which of course is not a virus) goes on despite many years of research so nothing is guaranteed. There's also the risk of antigenic drift in the strain of CV-19 with the result that once-potent vaccines are no longer effective.

2. Hope also that good treatments for COVID can be found, both antiviral drugs and also better ways to manage the virus-induced pneumonia, blood clotting etc that is what typically kills patients, ie rather than the virus itself. This approach has obviously been the successful strategy for HIV.

3. Where an outbreak does occur that it be dealt with as quickly and aggressively as possible, eg test, track & trace; border controls; new lockdowns if necessary etc. This may well be easier in a smaller, more sparsely populated country like NZ (which does seem to have quite a lot going for it!)

My main concern is that, nasty as it is, COVID-19 is nothing like as dangerous as one could imagine. Patients infected with the virus are constantly producing literally billions of mutant viruses (viral replication is quite an error-prone process). The overwhelming vast majority of these mutants do not survive or cannot replicate, but imagine if a version of COVID-19 were to emerge with the infectiousness of measles (maybe 5x that of CV-19) and with the case fatality rate of MERS (say 50%). Sweet dreams :shock:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 25, 2020, 05:39:05 PM
We are on track to eliminate
But that simply means any new cases must be jumped on
Quickly and will need fast contact tracing
We only have a few new cases a day now, all related
To existing clusters (16 clusters only ).islands in the Pacific are now free of it.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: kan6526 on April 25, 2020, 10:52:29 PM
We can see through the lies,
Because the language is interlinked

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 26, 2020, 03:33:32 AM
We are on track to eliminate

But only until an overseas visitor sparks off a new outbreak. As we agree I think, by having a rigorous test/track/trace regime in place this may work (though it won't stop new cases appearing completely, hence no absolute elimination/eradication) though it may be difficult to sustain indefinitely. But while this is more feasible in a smaller and relatively isolated country like NZ, in the bigger regions like Europe, US, China, India etc it's a much bigger ask.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 26, 2020, 05:20:56 AM
When the State tells you it’s safe to go to Home Depot to buy a sponge but dangerous to go and buy a flower, it’s not about your health.

When the State shuts down millions of private businesses but doesn’t lay off a single government employee, it’s not about your health.

When the State bans dentists because its unsafe, but deems an abortion visit is safe, it’s not about your health.

When the State prevents you from buying cucumber seeds because it’s dangerous, but allows personal lottery ticket sales, it’s not about your health.

When the State tells you it’s dangerous to go golf alone, fish alone or be in a motor boat alone, but the Governor can get his stage make-up done,
and hair done for 5 TV appearances a week, it’s not about your health.

When the state puts you IN a jail cell for walking in a park with your child because it’s too dangerous but lets criminals OUT of jail cells for their
health- It’s not about YOUR health!

When the state tells you it’s too dangerous to get treated by a doctor for chiropractic or physical therapy treatments yet deems a liquor store
essential- It’s not about your health!

When the State lets you go to the grocery store or hardware store but is demanding mail-in voting, ITS NOT ABOUT YOUR HEALTH.



Add this one to your list of essential businesses dog grooming.  I'll attach the order.  The same person that put the mandatory face-covering restrictions on. Pet groomers are okay because they provide care owners cannot. Mind you these are not veterinarians they shampoo, groom, and cut nails. 
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 26, 2020, 09:23:26 AM
Another of Judge Hidalgo's little projects.
https://www.westernjournal.com/houston-looking-dismantling-17m-temp-hospital-didnt-see-single-patient/?utm_source=site&utm_medium=protrumpnews&utm_campaign=can
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 26, 2020, 09:45:59 AM
Another of Judge Hidalgo's little projects.
https://www.westernjournal.com/houston-looking-dismantling-17m-temp-hospital-didnt-see-single-patient/?utm_source=site&utm_medium=protrumpnews&utm_campaign=can

That pet grooming place happens to be special because it's where all the NASA employees go.  You can go around Houston and won't find others open. She's as corrupt as they come.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on April 26, 2020, 10:09:03 AM
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" - John Dalberg-Acton
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 26, 2020, 11:41:03 PM
Quote
We are on track to eliminate

But only until an overseas visitor sparks off a new outbreak.

our border is locked down to overseas visitors
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Waimarie on April 26, 2020, 11:46:40 PM
Quote
We are on track to eliminate

But only until an overseas visitor sparks off a new outbreak.

our border is locked down to overseas visitors

You want to be in the Wairarapa.  Only 1 road in from Wellington and the same one out to Palmerston North.  The Police regularly have checkpoints to stop "shopping tourists".  We have no active cases and no queues or shortages in the supermarkets.  We would like to keep it that way thank you  [tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 27, 2020, 01:48:55 PM
Have the goalposts changed?  It used to be that we were to "flatten the curve" to keep the health care system from being overwhelmed.  That seems to have worked, and the shortage of beds, ventilators, and such fortunately didn't come true to the apocalyptic extent predicted.  We've had time to get stocked up on masks and such, unless we're waiting for testing kits to test everyone, and to continue to test everyone until nobody has it or everyone has antibodies.

Are we still afraid of an unmanageable spike if we let up, are we going to wait months/years for a possible vaccine or improved treatment, or are we pretending we can eliminate it?

I would think that if we get back to normal there may be a spike, but not anywhere near what was feared at the beginning, and maybe some hot spots could be dealt with more regionally.  I suspect that any place that thinks they have it eliminated is going to suffer more spikes over a longer period of time unless they can really continue to keep their guard up and restrict travel forever.  But then being careful with immigration is never a bad thing.

Taiwan has been called the model response.  How much back to normal are they, or will they have to wear masks and gloves everywhere and continually spray disinfectant everywhere all the time for the foreseeable future?  (Somehow I suspect that constant contact with disinfectant and stuff would have its own problems.)  I do think Taiwan is one country that does deserve credit and respect for standing up from the start.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 27, 2020, 02:39:25 PM
Quote
U.S. officials and the intelligence community have confirmed to Fox News that they have taken the possibility of the coronavirus being man-made or engineered inside China as some sort of bioweapon off the table and have ruled it out at this point.
so that idea hopefully will die a natural death.

Quote
Have the goalposts changed?
that happens,when mitagation efforts work (i.e social distancing), i.e the models get adjusted in real time
but experts continue to warn of a second wave if mitagation efforts are relaxed too soon

Quote
I suspect that any place that thinks they have it eliminated is going to suffer more spikes over a longer period of time unless they can really continue to keep their guard up and restrict travel forever.
Forever?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 27, 2020, 02:51:18 PM


Quote
Have the goalposts changed?
that happens,when mitagation efforts work (i.e social distancing), i.e the models get adjusted in real time
but experts continue to warn of a second wave if mitagation efforts are relaxed too soon



Experts? Give me a break!  =; 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 27, 2020, 02:59:04 PM
Quote
U.S. officials and the intelligence community have confirmed to Fox News that they have taken the possibility of the coronavirus being man-made or engineered inside China as some sort of bioweapon off the table and have ruled it out at this point.
so that idea hopefully will die a natural death.
As always you need to read what is said, not what isn't said.  It does not say that there is no possibility that this virus was released from the Wuhan lab, just that it wasn't produced as a bioweapon.  So I think you may be taking it out of context just the same way what I said earlier was taken out of context and added to.


Quote
Have the goalposts changed?
that happens,when mitagation efforts work (i.e social distancing), i.e the models get adjusted in real time
but experts continue to warn of a second wave if mitagation efforts are relaxed too soon
So what are the goalposts and models saying now?

Quote
I suspect that any place that thinks they have it eliminated is going to suffer more spikes over a longer period of time unless they can really continue to keep their guard up and restrict travel forever.
Forever?
Well, maybe just until there is no such thing as coronavirus anymore.  So, yeah, that could pretty much be forever.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 27, 2020, 03:11:40 PM
Quote
U.S. officials and the intelligence community have confirmed to Fox News that they have taken the possibility of the coronavirus being man-made or engineered inside China as some sort of bioweapon off the table and have ruled it out at this point.
so that idea hopefully will die a natural death.
BTW: that quote was copied from an article from April 17.  The article starts out saying:
Quote
EXCLUSIVE: The U.S. is conducting a full-scale investigation into whether the novel coronavirus, which went on to morph into a global pandemic that has brought the global economy to its knees, escaped from a lab in Wuhan, China, Fox News has learned.

Intelligence operatives are said to be gathering information about the laboratory and the initial outbreak of the virus. Intelligence analysts are piecing together a timeline of what the government knew and “creating an accurate picture of what happened,” the sources said.
Did you miss that part, or purposely leave it out?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 27, 2020, 03:17:03 PM
And more interesting tidbits from that article:

Quote
“And most importantly, we know they’ve not permitted the world’s scientists to go into that laboratory to evaluate what took place there, what’s happening there, what’s happening there even as we speak,” he said.

There has been speculation for months, not just in the U.S., that the virus originated in a Chinese laboratory. A February study on the origins of the virus from the South China University of Technology concluded: “In addition to origins of natural recombination and intermediate host, the killer coronavirus probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan."

So now, after quoting Fox News to back up your point, you'll probably start saying how unreliable they are, even though like most people who bash it, you probably can't really say why.   :-P
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 27, 2020, 06:48:02 PM
Yahoo news article about nicotine and bat flu: The researchers said that a “nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR)” plays a key role in infection from the coronavirus and that nicotine may act to protect this receptor from attack. It may also lessen the overreaction of the body’s immune system that has been found in the most severe cases of Covid-19 infection.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/smokers-four-times-less-likely-151203823.html
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 27, 2020, 06:49:58 PM
Yahoo news article about nicotine and bat flu: The researchers said that a “nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR)” plays a key role in infection from the coronavirus and that nicotine may act to protect this receptor from attack. It may also lessen the overreaction of the body’s immune system that has been found in the most severe cases of Covid-19 infection.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/smokers-four-times-less-likely-151203823.html
Does that mean we should become chain smokers?  ;)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 27, 2020, 07:35:03 PM
Yahoo news article about nicotine and bat flu: The researchers said that a “nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR)” plays a key role in infection from the coronavirus and that nicotine may act to protect this receptor from attack. It may also lessen the overreaction of the body’s immune system that has been found in the most severe cases of Covid-19 infection.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/smokers-four-times-less-likely-151203823.html
Does that mean we should become chain smokers?  ;)

Who knows?  #-o  Watch for a run on nicotine patches...  :lol:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 27, 2020, 07:39:24 PM
Yahoo news article about nicotine and bat flu: The researchers said that a “nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR)” plays a key role in infection from the coronavirus and that nicotine may act to protect this receptor from attack. It may also lessen the overreaction of the body’s immune system that has been found in the most severe cases of Covid-19 infection.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/smokers-four-times-less-likely-151203823.html
Does that mean we should become chain smokers?  ;)

Who knows?  #-o  Watch for a run on nicotine patches...  :lol:
Ha! Probably will be just as hard to find as TP still is for me.. :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 27, 2020, 07:42:33 PM
Quote
So now, after quoting Fox News to back up your point, you'll probably start saying how unreliable they are, even though like most people who bash it, you probably can't really say why.
why do you keep on putting words into peoples mouths?
I check on multiple news sites for balance
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 27, 2020, 07:43:36 PM
Quote
Experts? Give me a break!
ah so you do not believe in experts and science?
it all makes sense now
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 27, 2020, 07:49:13 PM
Quote
So now, after quoting Fox News to back up your point, you'll probably start saying how unreliable they are, even though like most people who bash it, you probably can't really say why.

I check on multiple news sites for balance
Yeah, well, absolutely NO such thing 99% of the time in the States....NONE. It's as big of a problem as the virus itself...if not BIGGER. "Pathetic" doesn't even scratch the surface.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 27, 2020, 07:59:06 PM
Quote
Experts? Give me a break!
ah so you do not believe in experts and science?
it all makes sense now

I believe in science that relies on facts, not junk science relying on models based on manipulated data to support a narrative.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 27, 2020, 09:00:40 PM
I check on multiple news sites for balance
If you cared about balance, would you have quoted part of a news article to refute something no one here has said, while leaving out parts that would back up what they did say?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 28, 2020, 03:38:23 AM
Stillwater City Council wrestles with safely re-opening businesses:

With pressure mounting to get businesses open, the Stillwater City Council expressed frustration Monday as the councilors discussed how the city should approach the challenge.

Stillwater’s leaders have consistently joined Norman, Oklahoma City and Tulsa in enacting measures that are more stringent than state restrictions, and enacting them before Gov. Kevin Stitt moved at the state level.

They have been frustrated for the past few months, first by a lack of consistent policy for the state as a whole, and now by a state government that is opening things up before Oklahoma’s COVID-19 infections have dropped significantly.

Vice-mayor Pat Darlington said she is very unhappy that Stillwater’s city government has been put in this position. She wishes the city would have had the option of waiting at least one week, ideally two, before opening.

There is no data set that shows Oklahoma having decreases in infections, Mayor Will Joyce said. In fact, the state has had day-over-day increases since March 23.

“To be entirely honest, these are not decisions we should be making from a city standpoint,” Joyce said when the council met via video-conference Monday. “But we are not washing our hands of this … None of us wants to be here, I think, but we are here.”

After talking with other mayors, Joyce has concluded that most are following the governor on when to open and what type of businesses to open.

It doesn’t seem like Stillwater really has an option, he said. Given the fact that other communities will be loosening restrictions, there isn’t much reason for Stillwater not to. The economic detriment Stillwater experiences from closure is only worthwhile if it’s producing public health benefits.

He said staying closed would amount to taking a moral stand on the backs of Stillwater’s businesses.

The city’s Shelter in Place order will be allowed to expire at midnight Thursday. Other orders will need to be replaced with new requirements.

A continued shortage of testing and the lag in reporting, combined with varying models, makes it hard to know whose numbers are correct, Joyce said.

Although Stillwater has maintained relatively low numbers of infections and Stillwater Medical Center has done a good job of maintaining and building its capacity, they don’t exist in a vacuum.

Many of Stillwater’s residents commute to Oklahoma City or Tulsa for work, and people from surrounding communities come to Stillwater for the same reason.

As other communities open up, people will have more opportunity for exposure to COVID-19.

Joyce noted that Stillwater Medical’s system serves a good portion of the North Central region of Oklahoma with a catchment area that includes 185,000 people.

“We have to think of ourselves regionally,” he said.

The councilors agreed that the White House and State plans should be starting points, with any suggested safety measures becoming requirements in Stillwater.

Councilor John Wedlake, who is a physician, said he thinks masks and face coverings in public are an essential part of the city plan for re-opening.

Councilor Amy Dzialowski said she had noticed there is information some businesses and people need that seems to be spread out across the websites of several organizations.

She and Councilor Alane Zannotti called for city staff to compile all the links and information, including any Stillwater-specific requirements, in one place on the City of Stillwater website.

Over the next few days, Joyce and city staff will be developing procedures for maintaining proper social distance or reducing the risk of spreading illness as businesses move toward opening.

Darlington said it will take business owners some time to gather the things they need to operate because many cleaning and disinfecting supplies still aren’t readily available.

City leaders need to be diligent in monitoring infections and hospitalizations and ready to re-escalate restrictions at a moment’s notice, Wedlake warned.

City Manager Norman McNickle announced that the city pool in Couch Park will not be opening this year. It was determined that it wouldn’t be possible to keep common areas disinfected and with so many students already gone for the year, it would be difficult to hire enough lifeguards, he said.

City staff will monitor the situation and make a decision about whether to open the splash pads in Southern Woods and Boomer Lake parks later this year.
https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/city-council-wrestles-with-safely-re-opening-businesses/article_b237b04c-88fe-11ea-a5aa-d3dc426b7a13.html
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 28, 2020, 05:39:48 AM
 Two California doctors who interpret data using facts, not computer models.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/oGVRqleTzzMi/
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 29, 2020, 12:06:13 AM
A sign of the times in downtown Stillwater.  The green man statue wears a mask.

(https://stillwaterweather.com/photos/greenmanstatue.jpg)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Waimarie on April 29, 2020, 12:37:12 AM
Another sign of the times.  New Zealand in the middle of a weekday.  State Highway 53.  This section outside my place is 3.5km's dead straight.  Can you see any traffic?

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Neither can I......
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 29, 2020, 01:14:28 AM
Quote
Two California doctors who interpret data using facts, not computer models.
the models change as the data changes (like weather models do)
at one point they were predicting 60,000 deaths for USA by August
that number has been nearly reached
so now the models have had to be adjusted, and so the new estimate is 75,000 deaths
due to less mitigation measures in place now
I would say that might be conservative given that now positive cases have gone past 1 million and counting  :shock:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on April 29, 2020, 03:13:50 AM
on a positive note or somewhat positive daily for the last month i have seen pods of dolphins in our nearby sea front , everyday i sit on the balcony and just sit back and enjoy the view. since lockdowns and restrictions the seafront is void of regular small fishing boats, sailing boats etc .dolphins are not rare here but seldom do they venture into our bay . other things ive noted though perhaps an everyday thing for those living in less urban areas but i live in a city densely populated so wildlife is not so frequently observed but too wake upto see wild ducks swimming around the swimming pool is a first in my 12 years here .. Coronavirus: Wild animals enjoy freedom of a quieter world https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-52459487
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

perhaps you have seen some differences ? please share some positivity
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 29, 2020, 04:02:10 AM
perhaps you have seen some differences ? please share some positivity
I live in a pretty rural area to begin with, so the wildlife doesn't seem to have any idea anything is different.

Until you get some more first hand pictures, someone did send me this:

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Hopefully you'll get some a little more positive.  :-)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on April 29, 2020, 04:22:25 AM
 :grin: i guess a dose of bleach  :shock: i would probably see something like that and my wife probably think yep youve lost it time for me to move to the garden shed until it wore off..  share your positives if you have any not memes .. ps city life often you dont get time to observe too busy trying to get from one place to another so things ive seen in recent weeks .
bright green parrots  , early morning owls normally only seen at night and only dark silhouettes in the night . storks walking around the wasteland .. noticeable lower daytime humidity readings somewhat difficult to achieve being near the sea front distinct lack of mist or smog from the city, distant mountain tops covered in snow viewable best part of the day normally difficult to observe clearly due to pollution levels  .. just a few notable things ..
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 29, 2020, 02:21:47 PM
For anyone interested in a podcast summarising the latest COVID situation, mostly US-focused but of broader interest too:

https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-607/ (there's a download link available on that page)

Warning: This is a 60-minute podcast by scientists (and not eg by politicians or self-appointed experts or clinicians (who may be great doctors, but whose knowledge of science and statistics is sometimes tenuous)), but generally accessible and with very little obscure science. This is as good and as objective a summary of the present status and prospects for emerging from lockdown as I've come across.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 29, 2020, 06:56:04 PM
the models change as the data changes (like weather models do)

Would you say the virus models are as accurate as the weather models?  How many pandemics have we been able to study and tweak the models on as compared to weather?  Do the models take in to account the long term economic, sociological, and political effects?  If so, are they able to predict what the effects will be even next year as accurately as meteorologists are able to model next year's weather?

For anyone interested in a podcast summarising the latest COVID situation, mostly US-focused but of broader interest too:

https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-607/ (there's a download link available on that page)

Warning: This is a 60-minute podcast by scientists (and not eg by politicians or self-appointed experts or clinicians (who may be great doctors, but whose knowledge of science and statistics is sometimes tenuous)), but generally accessible and with very little obscure science. This is as good and as objective a summary of the present status and prospects for emerging from lockdown as I've come across.



I would ask the same things about this video, what is the expertise of the scientists on the long lasting effects of the damage to society and the economy?

Interestingly, the main scientist on this video seems to be a professor who is also an expert on climatology, atmospheric science, mosquitoes, and who knows what.  I wonder how accurately his name, Shaman, describes his profession.  I'm sure he is intelligent, but I do have problem with the idea that as a "scientist" we can't question to what extent he really knows what he's talking about, or whether he's trying to make a name for himself, or even if he could be wrong.  He's a SCIENTIST! [-o&lt; We need to listen to him!  Everyone else are just lowly self-appointed experts, or politicians, or just simple doctors, who aren't really able to study or think things out for themselves.  Just know-nothings who "take their instructions from polemics on ..." 

It's also interesting that our resident expert is a retailer of weather instruments.  I guess expertise in weather, weather instruments, and epidemiology just naturally go together.  :-)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 29, 2020, 08:46:05 PM

I would ask the same things about this video, what is the expertise of the scientists on the long lasting effects of the damage to society and the economy?
Actually the Great Shaman did answer that previously in an article on phys.org:
Quote
"The psychological, emotional and economic costs to individuals could be enormous," he said. "It could, if not managed well, spawn years of unemployment. It would kill small businesses, and many people don't even have three months of savings to live on. How are they going to recover from this? Are we going to be locked into a decade of depression afterwards? Are we going to lose an entire generation in their 20s and their opportunities? That's the cost you're looking at, and that cost may be greater than anything that we're talking about from this disease. We don't know."
So he is actually asking some of the same questions I am, and even has the same concerns I do, yet for all his expertise as a great scientist his final answer is "We don't know"!  So we'd better listen to him!

He also talks a lot to the effect about climate change and COVID being pretty much the same thing.  One is just faster acting.  But for both I guess we need to drastically adjust our way of life.

So as a scientist, we can be assured he has no biases, no preconceptions, no political agenda, no peer pressure from a liberal college.  Just pure unadulterated facts with no possibility of error.  :?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on April 30, 2020, 07:20:28 AM
 [tup] SnowHiker,

The virus is spread much wider than initially thought according to sciencemag.org antibody test from Germany, the Netherlands, and several locations in the United States, find that anywhere from 2% to 30% of certain populations have already been infected with the virus making the death rate .37%.

If this holds true the question is was this worth shutting the world economy down over? How many others will die from poverty and long term economic collapse? Shouldn't we just quarantine the most vulnerable and allow for herd immunity?
Coronaviruses are very difficult to find a working vaccine like the common cold, and Sars (after years still none), so herd immunity is the likely outcome anyway. Lots of questions for sure.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 30, 2020, 03:56:18 PM
to counter that, some countries have not included deaths outside hospitals, so deaths are higher than reported
and the antibody tests have proven to be unreliable
Quote
Shouldn't we just quarantine the most vulnerable
Sweden tried to do just that
and have done the least amount of mitigation
and their death toll is now way above neighbouring countries
so either stay home to save lives or people parents and grandparents die for what..the economy?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 30, 2020, 03:58:13 PM
Quote
Would you say the virus models are as accurate as the weather models? 
where did I say that?
stop putting words into peoples mouths
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on April 30, 2020, 04:30:17 PM
also the notion I keep on seeing comparing the deaths to seasonal flu misses the point
that
a:) those deaths are for a whole season (i,e 6 months) (the deaths from Covid19 are passing those totals in only 6 weeks)
b:) those deaths occur with no social distancing and with a vaccine (i.e so if no social distancing was done for covid19 and because no vaccine then you would have millions dead)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 30, 2020, 04:52:27 PM
Quote
Would you say the virus models are as accurate as the weather models? 
where did I say that?
stop putting words into peoples mouths
Asking a question is not putting words in people's mouths.  :lol: :lol: :lol:  If you can't answer a question, just don't answer it.

Stop making false accusations.




Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 30, 2020, 05:38:42 PM
Time to chill....
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on April 30, 2020, 06:18:32 PM
Time to chill....
[tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on April 30, 2020, 06:42:50 PM
Time to chill....
[tup]
[tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on April 30, 2020, 07:56:48 PM
I like what xkcd.com has to say today:

(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/everyones_an_epidemiologist.png)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 30, 2020, 08:10:36 PM
How do you know that getting to the bottom of the hill faster isn't the better choice? You don't...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on April 30, 2020, 08:37:27 PM
a/ The reference was mountain.

b/ Increased risk of avalanche endangers all those who are at the bottom.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 30, 2020, 08:44:29 PM
a/ The reference was mountain.

b/ Increased risk of avalanche endangers all those who are at the bottom.
Oh, well that settles it. :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 01, 2020, 02:47:26 AM
Slowly trying to get back to normal only very carefully:

"Effective Friday, a broad range of businesses and venues that closed in March under emergency declarations from the City of Stillwater will be allowed to re-open.

Although many people are anxious to get back to normal, with COVID-19 still moving through the state, it won’t quite be business as usual.

On Wednesday, the City of Stillwater released the rules businesses must follow if they want to open after the city’s current shelter in place order expires at 11:59 p.m. Thursday.

The city plan for re-opening businesses is based on Gov. Kevin Stitt’s Open And Recover Safely plan, but goes further in some areas, making state recommendations into city requirements.

The City of Stillwater is also advising business owners who have not been using their facilities for a number of weeks to flush their water lines, drain and re-fill their water heater tanks and dump and re-fill their ice makers.

Stillwater has consistently restricted business activity and social gatherings more aggressively than the State of Oklahoma has over the past six weeks in an attempt to “flatten the curve” of COVID-19 infections.

President Donald Trump declared COVID-19 a national emergency on March 13, but Stitt did not put in place a state declaration of emergency until March 24.

Mayor Will Joyce signed a series of proclamations in response to the COVID-19 pandemic beginning March 15 that gradually decreased the number of people allowed to attend organized gatherings and closed businesses and venues the Oklahoma Department of Commerce classified as “non-essential.”

On March 17, organized gatherings were limited to fewer than 50 people. Bars, lounges, gyms, fitness facilities, entertainment facilities and restaurant dining rooms were ordered to close.

On March 23, organized gatherings were limited to fewer than 10 people and hair salons, barber shops, nail salons, tanning salons and tattoo parlors were ordered to close.

On March 29, all residents were ordered to shelter in place unless working an essential job or running an essential errand and the remaining “non-essential” businesses were ordered to close.

Under a new emergency declaration that becomes effective when the previous one expires at 11:59 p.m Thursday, social gatherings of 10 or more people are still prohibited and people at high risk of contracting or becoming seriously ill from COVID-19 are still ordered to shelter in place.

People considered to be at high risk and still subject to the shelter in place order include all residents age 65 or older and people with underlying health conditions like:

Chronic lung disease; Moderate to severe asthma; Severe heart conditions; Compromised immune systems due to cancer treatment or other medical conditions like poorly controlled HIV and AIDS; Use of immune-weakening medications like corticosteroids; Bone marrow or organ transplants; Diabetes; Chronic kidney disease and/or undergoing dialysis; Liver diseaseSevere obesity (BMI of 40 or higher); Smoking.

As before, they are allowed to leave their homes for essential activities like working an essential job, buying essential supplies like food or medicine, caring for family members and engaging in outdoor activity or exercise like walking, biking or running while following social and physical distancing guidelines.

Although the order does not specifically address non-essential retail businesses, City Manager Norman McNickle said Gov. Stitt’s OARS plan reclassified almost all businesses as essential.

The only businesses that cannot open after Friday are bars, lounges, hookah and vaping lounges and tattoo parlors.

The new order specifically states that personal care businesses like beauty salons, barber shops, tanning salons and spas, nail salons and dog groomers can open by appointment only. Walk-in customers are still not allowed.

Before anyone, client or staff, enters the building at any of the named businesses, they must take their temperature to make sure it doesn’t exceed 100.4 degrees.

They must be asked if they have had a cough or fever, if they have been around anyone exhibition those symptoms within the past 14 days, if they are living with anyone who is sick or quarantined.

Social distance of at least 6 feet is required except when receiving services.

There should be no more than 10 people, including staff, grouped together within the establishment at any time.

Masks or face coverings must be worn by both the employee and the client. Face shields are recommended for employees when servicing clients.

Hand washing standards remain in effect and some businesses are required to wear gloves while providing services.

The rules include enhanced standards for cleaning and disinfection at all businesses. Waiting areas must be cleared and high-touch surfaces must be frequently disinfected.

Surfaces and tools must be thoroughly cleaned and sanitized using disinfectants that are EPA registered and labeled as bactericidal, virucidal and fungicidal.

Work stations and equipment, including shampoo bowls and pedicure bowls, must be cleaned and disinfected between clients.

Items with soft or porous surfaces should only be used one time.

Other specific rules apply as mandated by the OARS plan, the Oklahoma State Board of Cosmetology and the City of Stillwater.

Curbside drop-off and pick-up is strongly recommended for pet groomers.

Gyms and health facilities must meet enhanced cleaning and disinfection standards and the number of people allowed inside the building or in group fitness classes must be limited to ensure at least 6 feet of distance between patrons.

Patrons are to use face coverings.

Roller rinks and bowling alleys must encourage patrons to bring their own shoes, skates and other equipment. They must disinfect rented or loaned equipment.

Entertainment venues like movie theaters and bowling alleys must allow at least 6 feet between patrons who are not part of a group.

Patrons must wear face coverings and hand sanitizer must be available to patrons.

Churches must also configure seating to allow 6 feet between groups.

Retail stores and other essential businesses should also limit the number of people allowed inside to ensure 6 feet between customers.

All employees and customers are required to wear masks.

Although movie theaters are allowed to open, multiple media outlets have reported that AMC, which operates Stillwater’s only theater, does not plan to re-open its facilities until possibly mid-summer due to a lack of new releases from movie studios."
https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/stillwater-lays-out-rules-for-opening-businesses/article_f19c9fc0-9222-5753-bb80-7ce464b44dd6.html
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 01, 2020, 05:20:34 AM
to counter that, some countries have not included deaths outside hospitals, so deaths are higher than reported
and the antibody tests have proven to be unreliable
Quote
Shouldn't we just quarantine the most vulnerable
Sweden tried to do just that
and have done the least amount of mitigation
and their death toll is now way above neighbouring countries
so either stay home to save lives or people parents and grandparents die for what..the economy?

Sweden is twice as populated as Norway and Finland. True Swede's approach was herd immunity but they didn't protect the vulnerable especially nursing homes where a majority of the country's deaths occurred. They are nearing herd immunity experts say while the rest of the world is still locked down with economies trashed and just delaying the inevitable without a working vaccine. (Herd immunity)
The lockdown was to slow the curve it worked hospitals were not overrun in fact they are empty with health care workers being furloughed.  Lots of questions for sure in my mind on the correct approach with the virus not near as deadly as originally thought.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on May 01, 2020, 06:18:02 AM
They [Sweden]are nearing herd immunity experts say...

Nowhere close I'm afraid:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-01/covid-19-sweden-hasn-t-cracked-the-coronavirus-code

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cYjjEB3Ev (first 10-15 mins is relevant to Sweden).

South Korea looks like a better example of a country that's handled the epidemic well as a result of very extensive testing and a highly aggressive track,  trace, quarantine operation. But reports suggest that this was made easier by SK's experience of a serious MERS outbreak (another coronavirus related to COVID) a few years ago which made them realise just what a threat these respiratory viruses can represent. (And not forgetting NZ of course, though its natural isolation, smaller population and early action will have helped a lot there.)

It's also not known for sure whether herd immunity even applies to COVID-19 - there's just no hard information on that yet. It could be that as with some of the coronavirus common colds any antibody response is short-lived and does not prevent reinfection. (Hopefully this isn't the case, I hasten to add, but it's in the category of we really don't know as yet, just as we hope that a vaccine is possible and that COVID-19 is not in the same camp as eg HIV or malaria where the search for a cheap effective vaccine has drawn a blank so far.)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 01, 2020, 07:16:53 AM
They [Sweden]are nearing herd immunity experts say...

Nowhere close I'm afraid:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-01/covid-19-sweden-hasn-t-cracked-the-coronavirus-code



It's also not known for sure whether herd immunity even applies to COVID-19 - there's just no hard information on that yet. It could be that as with some of the coronavirus common colds any antibody response is short-lived and does not prevent reinfection. (Hopefully this isn't the case, I hasten to add, but it's in the category of we really don't know as yet, just as we hope that a vaccine is possible and that COVID-19 is not in the same camp as eg HIV or malaria where the search for a cheap effective vaccine has drawn a blank so far.)

So you reference an opinion piece from Bloomberg.  :lol:

What I'm referencing is what spokespersons for the Swedes are saying. They expect herd immunity in May. The question is will antibodies stop reinfection? We will soon see.
Don't hold your breath on a vaccine but we can hope.

https://www.newsweek.com/sweden-stockholm-coronavirus-herd-immunity-reinfection-1500342
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on May 01, 2020, 07:45:30 AM
What I'm referencing is what spokespersons for the Swedes are saying. They expect herd immunity in May.

You did see that those comments were withdrawn as erroneous?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 01, 2020, 07:55:28 AM
What I'm referencing is what spokespersons for the Swedes are saying. They expect herd immunity in May.

You did see that those comments were withdrawn as erroneous?

Did you see Dr. Mike Ryan, WHO’s top emergencies expert, suggests learning from Sweden — which never shut down completely — as a “model” for battling the coronavirus?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on May 01, 2020, 08:16:22 AM
Did you see Dr. Mike Ryan, WHO’s top emergencies expert, suggests learning from Sweden — which never shut down completely — as a “model” for battling the coronavirus?

The most recent quote from him that I can quickly see is: 'In a World Health Organisation (WHO) press conference on April 29, Dr Mike Ryan, Executive Director of the WHO Health Emergencies Programme, said that “there may be lessons to be learned” from Sweden’s “very strong strategic approach,” though he noted that it “remains to be seen” whether its approach has been successful.' That seems to be a good deal more cautious than you're suggesting. What's your source?

TBH the bottom line seems to be that no-one knows for sure at this stage. Right now it looks like South Korea is the better model, but maybe things will change? Until all the excess deaths data are fully available in maybe 12 months time (suitably expressed on a population basis and corrected for different age distributions etc) it won't be possible to set up a league table of 'who did best'. And then that will have to be weighed against the economic damage that different countries have suffered and we'll have some measure of what one death is considered to be worth in different places.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 01, 2020, 08:32:28 AM
Did you see Dr. Mike Ryan, WHO’s top emergencies expert, suggests learning from Sweden — which never shut down completely — as a “model” for battling the coronavirus?

The most recent quote from him that I can quickly see is: 'In a World Health Organisation (WHO) press conference on April 29, Dr Mike Ryan, Executive Director of the WHO Health Emergencies Programme, said that “there may be lessons to be learned” from Sweden’s “very strong strategic approach,” though he noted that it “remains to be seen” whether its approach has been successful.' That seems to be a good deal more cautious than you're suggesting. What's your source?

TBH the bottom line seems to be that no-one knows for sure at this stage. Right now it looks like South Korea is the better model, but maybe things will change? Until all the excess deaths data are fully available in maybe 12 months time (suitably expressed on a population basis and corrected for different age distributions etc) it won't be possible to set up a league table of 'who did best'. And then that will have to be weighed against the economic damage that different countries have suffered and we'll have some measure of what one death is considered to be worth in different places.

Agree we won't know the outcome until its all over. Those doing hard mitigation will continue to have cases for a long time to come so which approach worked better time will tell. If antibodies don't stop reinfection then  mitigation will likely be the correct approach and let's hope we get a vaccine.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on May 01, 2020, 09:33:17 AM
...If antibodies don't stop reinfection then  mitigation will likely be the correct approach and let's hope we get a vaccine.
This is an oxymoron, Randy.  If antibodies don't prevent reinfection, then there's no hope for a vaccine because they rely on inducing appropriate antibodies for their effectiveness.

Hence mitigation isn't the correct approach if a vaccine isn't forthcoming.  It delays the inevitable and flattens the curve.  Events still play out, just over a longer time span.

There are too many unknowns with COVID-19 to allow an accurate prediction as to our future vis-a-vis the virus.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on May 01, 2020, 09:59:05 AM
I made the border run to Acuna, MX yesterday and Del Rio looked fairly normal except everyone had masks and of course the usual things were closed. Mexico was about the same, all the restaurants/bars were closed but other businesses seemed open, most everyone was wearing a mask. Of course when I got back home I rarely see a mask around here.

Now we are into the political phase of this charade, some of the governors are feeling their oats and the pushback is mounting rapidly, it's going to get ugly early. And stores that are open are being driven by their corporate lawyers assuring them that they will be sued if they don't go to extreme measures customer relations be damned. It's all unnecessary, but being the obedient little sheeple we are, most have fallen in line - at least for now, we'll see.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on May 01, 2020, 10:09:40 AM
This is an oxymoron, Randy.  If antibodies don't prevent reinfection, then there's no hope for a vaccine because they rely on inducing appropriate antibodies for their effectiveness.

Hence mitigation isn't the correct approach if a vaccine isn't forthcoming.  It delays the inevitable and flattens the curve.  Events still play out, just over a longer time span.

Buying time is a valuable strategy though. In part, it stops health services being totally overwhelmed, with all the misery and avoidable deaths (eg too few ventilators being available) that would involve.

And in part it allows better understanding of the disease and better treatments to develop. Clinicians already have advanced their knowledge to an extent, eg don't ventilate too early, proning, watch coagulation status carefully etc. Pointless therapies with potential side-effects are being discarded. Proper trials of antiviral agents with patients at different stages of disease will have time to report and be refined and tried further, more effective anti-immune treatments for the cytokine storm may have emerged and so on. Another 6-12 months of accumulated clinical experience could be invaluable.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on May 01, 2020, 10:19:46 AM
...Another 6-12 months of accumulated clinical experience could be invaluable.
We're past the point of mitigation's effectiveness.  What is its current and future cost?  A depression the likes of which we haven't seen for 80 years with its accompanying deaths and destruction of lives?  The economy has to enter into your equation at some point despite your desire to continue mitigation seemingly indefinitely.  The 'even one more life lost is too many' viewpoint is naive and untenable.  Face facts of life not romantic fantasy.

There are multiple problems regarding COVID-19:

President Trump is right when he says we don't know what it is because some scientists have reported at least 9 different strains of COVID-19, which is a huge problem in and of itself.  How do you manufacture an effective vaccine against such a protean pathogen?  No such vaccine was ever possible against the congener virus, SARS, so why would this be any different?  Hope is fragile against such odds.  Herd immunity via symptomatic or asymptomatic infection will probably be the ultimate resolution of this epidemic.

We have no real data regarding COVID-19.  The initial testing done for the presence of the virus used the ridiculous standard of showing signs of a respiratory illness before any testing was even warranted!  This fit well with the fact that reliable, i.e. sensitive and specific, tests weren't available much less widely available, and there is argument even today regarding testing for the presence of COVID-19.  So, if we had no real idea who was secreting and spreading the virus because we weren't randomly testing even a portion of our population, how is containment via a traditional public health approach of contact identification, testing, and isolation even remotely possible?  Asymptomatic carriers are, and have been, the fly in the containment ointment's strategy.  Widespread testing of a significant percentage of the population for viral shedding at this time will yield interesting data that holds little implication for disease containment.

We don't know if and when people infected with COVID-19 no longer spread the virus.  Some studies have shown viral RNA shedding for up to 9 days.  Moreover, we don't know if what our tests detect are actually viable infectious particles or merely fragments of inactive viral RNA that continue to be shed.  Only expensive, time-consuming tissue culture tests can display viral activity in vitro.  These aren't currently being used even though they're the 'gold standard'.

Immunity against the virus will be the eventual outcome for the majority of us.  Tests for such are being developed and tested.  They will provide an interesting retrospective to this epidemic and can possibly pinpoint those who are probably not a shedding threat to those vulnerable persons who are being isolated and protected from potential COVID-19 infection.  Passively transmitting the virus via hands and inanimate objects is an entirely different issue.

We will emerge from this into a dramatically different world, no doubt.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on May 01, 2020, 10:46:48 AM
We're past the point of mitigation's effectiveness.

I don't know what that means. But there's a wealth of steps between full lockdown and total free-for-all. I guarantee you that the latter wouldn't last for long

Quote
The 'even one more life lost is too many' viewpoint is naive and untenable.

Who is suggesting that? I can't spot anyone.

Quote
President Trump is right when he says we don't know what it is because some scientists have reported at least 9 different strains of COVID-19, which is a huge problem in and of itself.  How do you manufacture an effective vaccine against such a protean pathogen?  No such vaccine was ever possible against the congener virus, SARS, so why would this be any different?  Hope is fragile against such odds. 

That's quite a big misunderstanding of the position. The so-called strains of COVID-19 are actually (relatively) very minor variants and none, to my knowledge, have mutations in the more antigenic region of the spike protein which is likely to be the prime antigen in most (all?) of the various vaccine projects. So a vaccine against one would be expected to be active against all known variants. (Now whether that would be true for future variants is a different call of course, but let's not be too pessimistic). SARS is a much more distant relative of COVID, even IIRC using a different attachment receptor.

Quote
Herd immunity via symptomatic or asymptomatic infection will probably be the ultimate resolution of this epidemic.

In the absence of any good therapy (which remember has worked for HIV) that's axiomatic. It's just a question of how and when to get there.

Quote
how is containment via a traditional public health approach of contact identification, testing, and isolation even remotely possible?

That strategy appears to have worked well in S Korea.

Quote
Asymptomatic carriers are, and have been, the fly in the containment ointment's strategy. 

That's debatable. Asymptomatic 'carriers' probably shed relatively little virus (at least relative to symptomatic individuals), otherwise they would be more symptomatic. But I agree it's one of many areas that needs more investigation.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 01, 2020, 01:34:55 PM
This isn't good news:

Expert report predicts up to two more years of pandemic misery.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/30/health/report-covid-two-more-years/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/30/health/report-covid-two-more-years/index.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on May 01, 2020, 01:55:15 PM
The "experts" credibility is totally shot, now they're trying to scrounge up some relevance to justify their paychecks.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on May 01, 2020, 02:05:17 PM
We're past the point of mitigation's effectiveness.
... (elision)
You elided my main contention about the mitigation's social and economic costs while adducing 'scientific' guesses in the remainder your response.

My point is simply that guesswork is the ultimate basis for all of this mitigation.  Nobody has a clear picture of the future of this epidemic and its sequelae.  To aver otherwise is merely to enter into political advocacy of one course of (in)action over another.  I say 'political' because battle lines have been drawn mainly along an axis which revolves around progressive-liberalism with enforced strictures versus conservatism with freedom, personal choice and individual responsibility.  In other words, science won't settle this debate; events will, while science follows closely on the events' heels.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on May 01, 2020, 02:40:33 PM
Quote
Nobody has a clear picture of the future of this epidemic
there is
by looking at other countries that are ahead on the timeline and look at what worked best and learn from those countries
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on May 01, 2020, 05:20:45 PM
This is a contrarian view more in line with my thinking: https://wmbriggs.com/post/30633/

Here's George Gilder (https://www.bing.com/search?q=George+Gilder&FORM=ANCMS9&PC=U531) on the subject today:

Quote
Back to Bloodletting!
Dear Daily Prophecy Reader,
Can statistical models — “big data” — tell you what we should do about COVID-19? Or about climate trends?
Can statistics possibly justify shutting down the economy to fight a virus or change the climate? Or would bloodletting, as performed and tested by surgeons for millennia on their patients, be a far better course of action?
Artificial intelligence (AI) and “machine learning” — based on “big data” modeling — are the foundations of a new generation of information tools that are being used and abused widely by policymakers.
Jeopardizing their usefulness are ideas of their capabilities no more realistic than 18th century illusions about the effects of leeches on disease.
These days, we hear constantly of the need to respect what is called science, whether of climate change or of coronavirus effects. But when the so-called science is scrutinized, it nearly always turns out to mean more leeches, a statistical model.
A Telic AI Explanation for the Ages
In previous prophecies, you have met statistical philosopher William Briggs, now blogging incandescently on the COVID viral new mania. Read his blog by clicking here.
In his book, Uncertainty, he proves the inexorable limits of big data. Statistics simply cannot prove cause. If you don’t know the cause, you cannot differentiate noise from signal in the statistics.
The original authority on cause was the ancient Greek philosopher Aristotle, who divided causality into formal, material, efficient, and telic (purpose-based) explanations.
For an example, take a vase. The formal cause is its shape, but the shape cannot produce the vase without appropriate material such as clay or silica (glass). The material and the shape together are immediate causes of the vase. But they are impotent to produce it without an efficient cause, the hands of a potter or the breath of the glass blower — and an external heat source such as a kiln.
However, the final or telic cause is the mind of the potter himself, who conceives the purpose of making a vase rather than an ashtray or a bowl or a pipe. Without reading his mind, which a machine can never do, your understanding of the vase is trivial and almost irrelevant.
Suitably programmed and structured by human minds, AI can seem to reveal formal, material, and efficient causes. But actual purposes are beyond it. Thus, AI is intrinsically a rearview mirror. It can predict the future only by assuming continuity with the past and disregarding the power of human free will to reverse a trend.
For example, to address a more topical set of causes, we might return to COVID-19, the disease that is deranging the world in 2020. The form is the ostensible aspect — people getting sick with the flu; the material is the invisible substance involved — a novel coronavirus; the efficient cause is normally some kind of mechanism — the spread of the virus from raw bat markets in Wuhan to the world through human contact; the telos is the rub — the purpose, the essence of viruses. The telos reveals not what, but why an event happened.
Where does artificial intelligence fit in this scheme? Using a structured and filtered assemblage of big data from hospitals, a machine learning algorithm could resolve on a pattern of symptoms that represents the form of the disease. Through masses of carefully structured testing data, AI could identify a particular material pathogen that is present in all these cases. By poring through records from cellphones, tele-thermometers and other tracking devices or hospital reports, AI might show that personal interactions with infected parties account efficiently for the spread of the disease.
Aha! a policy-maker might declare. Stop all personal interactions and the disease will die!
The AI algorithms, appropriately deployed, arguably could contribute significantly to a description of “what happened.” Why the disease occurred and how it can be appropriately remedied, however, presents a conundrum beyond the data.
Knowledge of cause is above and beyond and deeper than knowledge of “what happens.” It reflects the grasping of essences through induction of universals beyond the material world. It entails grasping the biology and informatics of viruses, the way they function and communicate, how their RNA codes, peptides, and proteases can be generated through Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) machines. It requires knowledge of immunology and herd immunity and vaccines and hygiene and mutation of DNA and RNA. It requires a transcendent multidisciplinary understanding of the world utterly absent from AI.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 01, 2020, 09:09:03 PM
Point of matter. How other countries do their business is irrelevant to me at this moment. MY country and how the Constitution of the United States is being thrown under the bus by clueless underlings is completely unacceptable. This MUST be quashed....NOW.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 01, 2020, 09:17:10 PM
Point of matter. How other countries do their business is irrelevant to me at this moment. MY country and how the Constitution of the United States is being thrown under the bus by clueless underlings is completely unacceptable. This MUST be quashed....NOW.

Exactly  [tup]
Did you see the thousands of people at Hunting Beach California telling the Gov where to stick it?   
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 01, 2020, 09:35:08 PM
Point of matter. How other countries do their business is irrelevant to me at this moment. MY country and how the Constitution of the United States is being thrown under the bus by clueless underlings is completely unacceptable. This MUST be quashed....NOW.

Exactly  [tup]
Did you see the thousands of people at Hunting Beach California telling the Gov where to stick it?   
Tip of the iceberg. State/local government best get their ducks in a row or this will unfortunately get reeeealy ugly.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 01, 2020, 09:53:45 PM
Point of matter. How other countries do their business is irrelevant to me at this moment. MY country and how the Constitution of the United States is being thrown under the bus by clueless underlings is completely unacceptable. This MUST be quashed....NOW.

Exactly  [tup]
Did you see the thousands of people at Hunting Beach California telling the Gov where to stick it?   
Tip of the iceberg. State/local government best get their ducks in a row or this will unfortunately get reeeealy ugly.

I think there's more to the story, this is Orange County and the only area I'm aware of where the gov decided going to the beach was too dangerous. I think most can put 2 and 2 together and see what's going on here and what pissed so many off.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 01, 2020, 10:08:29 PM
Good lord, apparently because the city of Stillwater wrongly interpreted the outcome of a recent court case, it thought it could require wearing masks when entering a store.  The court case was dismissed because the complainant didn't even have a case--no citation, not because a city requiring mandatory mask wear was ruled constitutional.  At one of the Wal-Marts, workers were not letting people in without a mask, stirring up tempers.  So the city issued a revision--now no masks required:

Emergency Proclamation Amended
Released: May 01, 2020

"Mayor Will Joyce announced that an amended Emergency Proclamation affecting the opening of certain businesses within the City was issued this afternoon. The amendment is in response to concerns voiced by business proprietors and citizens about the proclamation going into effect early this morning.  The changes are related to wearing face coverings and extends the duration of the proclamation to May 31 at 11:59 p.m. This proclamation will be subject to continued amendments as necessary.

City Manager Norman McNickle said, “In the short time beginning on May 1, 2020, that face coverings have been required for entry into stores/restaurants, store employees have been threatened with physical violence and showered with verbal abuse.  In addition, there has been one threat of violence using a firearm.  This has occurred in three short hours and in the face of clear medical evidence that face coverings helps contain the spread of COVID-19.

“Many of those with objections cite the mistaken belief the requirement is unconstitutional, and under their theory, one cannot be forced to wear a mask. No law or court supports this view. In fact, a recent Federal lawsuit against Guthrie’s face covering order was fully dismissed by the United States District Court for the Western District of Oklahoma.

“It is further distressing that these people, while exercising their believed rights, put others at risk.  As mentioned, there is clear medical evidence the face coverings prevent COVID-19 spread; they are recommended by both the CDC and the Oklahoma State Department of Health. The wearing of face coverings is little inconvenience to protect both the wearer and anyone with whom they have contact.  And, an unprotected person who contracts the virus can infect their own loved ones and others.

“It is further well settled that a business is private property to which people do not have unfettered right of entry.  Just as a business has the right to enforce 'No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service,' the business can require a face covering as a condition to entry.

“The City of Stillwater has attempted to keep people safe by the simple requirement to wear a face covering to protect others.  It is unfortunate and distressing that those who refuse and threaten violence are so self-absorbed as to not follow what is a simple show of respect and kindness to others.

“In that effort to insure the safety of others, we now have to weigh the safety of store owners and employees to threats of violence.  We cannot, in clear conscience, put our local business community in harm’s way, nor can the police be everywhere. Accordingly, we will now be asking our local stores and business to encourage, but not require, patrons to cover their faces. Of course, each business can choose to adopt a more stringent approach, and we ask everyone to respect and abide by such decisions.

Wearing a face covering is an easy way to support the health of your community and speed our recovery from this pandemic.  Please do so.”
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 01, 2020, 10:12:05 PM
Point of matter. How other countries do their business is irrelevant to me at this moment. MY country and how the Constitution of the United States is being thrown under the bus by clueless underlings is completely unacceptable. This MUST be quashed....NOW.

Exactly  [tup]
Did you see the thousands of people at Hunting Beach California telling the Gov where to stick it?   
Tip of the iceberg. State/local government best get their ducks in a row or this will unfortunately get reeeealy ugly.

I think there's more to the story, this is Orange County and the only area I'm aware of where the gov decided going to the beach was too dangerous. I think most can put 2 and 2 together and see what's going on here and what pissed so many off.
Well, the droves that showed up at the state capitol in Lansing with their Second Amendment right in hand should be a sobering eye-opener.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 01, 2020, 10:19:18 PM
Stillwater Police Chief Jeff Watts also had some words in a statement issued Friday afternoon.

“We, Stillwater Police Department, are not stopping motorists to ensure the driver is wearing or in possession of a face covering. We are not responding to complaints of citizens not wearing face coverings in businesses. We are not ticketing citizens for failing to wear a face covering in public,” Watts wrote.

The police department will continue to respond to complaints of gatherings with 10 or more people and will take action according to the guidelines outlined in the proclamation. All people who violate the provisions are subject to a fine of $500 each.

Watts explained that under the amended proclamation, people are encouraged to wear face coverings while visiting both essential and non-essential businesses, and are required to wear them while patronizing personal care businesses that require close contact.

People who enter a business and are uncomfortable with other patrons not wearing a face mask have the option of leaving the business or continuing to shop, he said. But business owners have the legal right to require their patrons to wear face coverings.

“If a business requires you to wear a face covering and you refuse to do so the business has the right to refuse you service and/or demand you leave their establishment,” Watts wrote. “If you refuse to do so, you could be cited and/or arrested for trespassing if the business call the police and requests to make a citizen’s arrest.”
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on May 02, 2020, 01:38:40 AM
the 75,000 deaths in the USA might be exceded now going by latest predictions with hopes it wont eventually get to 100,000 deaths
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 02, 2020, 03:40:57 AM
Point of matter. How other countries do their business is irrelevant to me at this moment. MY country and how the Constitution of the United States is being thrown under the bus by clueless underlings is completely unacceptable. This MUST be quashed....NOW.

+100

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 02, 2020, 06:08:41 AM
the 75,000 deaths in the USA might be exceded now going by latest predictions with hopes it wont eventually get to 100,000 deaths

Based on what the same models that had us lockdown because if we didn't predicted as many as 2.2 million would die? This is science? LMAO
Besides the fact the models have been pathetically wrong even death numbers are suspicious when not confirmed but still classified as Covid19.

This was admitted by Dr. Deborah Birx “I think in this country, we’ve taken a very liberal approach to mortality, “There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing condition, and let’s say the virus caused you to go to the ICU [intensive care unit] and then have a heart or kidney problem. Some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death.”

To make no bones about it, each COVID19 case the hospital makes money and here's how.

The CARES Act created a 20% add-on to be paid for Medicare patients with COVID-19 plus the act further created another $100 billion fund that is being used to financially assist hospitals so it adds up big.

Meanwhile, heat attack and stroke deaths are oddly down 40-60% in certain areas with high Covid death numbers.

As far as this obsession with the United States? Many have died for the defense of our freedoms and stopping totalitarian rule. Americans will always choose freedom it's who we are and why we fight not to become part of a world order that is willing to roll over and hike its leg like a whipped dog every time someone says boo.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on May 02, 2020, 09:04:08 AM
Here's something that's thought provoking:
https://lovebreedsaccountability.com/2020/05/01/your-mask-is-making-you-meaner-dumber-more-afraid-less-safe/?utm_source=whatfinger
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 02, 2020, 05:14:13 PM
(https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/05/IMG_9696.png?resize=600%2C598&ssl=1)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 02, 2020, 05:16:55 PM
 :lol: Righteous!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on May 02, 2020, 05:18:14 PM
Question time:   How many who are offering their opinion or comments  have tested positive for the virus?
                        How may of those positive have had the virus and are now in the recovery phase ?
                        How many of you are in the Boomer Remover age group, 60-81+?
                        How many of you are social distancing when going out of where you live into public for whatever reason?
                        How many of you believe this is just Darwinism?

I will go first.   
  I am social distancing.  I am retired, 72.  I have type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, anemia (no idea why, but my red cells are of different sizes, some big and strong, some wimpy), mild asthma.   Darwinism?  could be  I want to be one of those who lasts another 15 years with my sweet wife.  and yes, I am social distancing, wear a mask for your protection and gloves when needed. I am not positive or had the virus.  really don't want it.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on May 02, 2020, 05:48:20 PM
I'm 77 with asthma and blood pressure under control. I'm forced to social distance or get hollered at by a 20-something snowflake who is the designated traffic cop for the day. We've still only had 3 cases in my county and no deaths so it's unlikely I've been exposed. I wear my mask here at the house because I'm sanding sheetrock mud on my latest project, otherwise I don't, had to yesterday to get into the Home Depot in Del Rio, they're stuck on stupid.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 02, 2020, 06:03:48 PM
they're stuck on stupid.
By-product of the virus.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 02, 2020, 06:10:23 PM
I am social distancing.
I am doing all school work from home.
I wearing a mask IF I need to go out.
I am a bit of a germaphobe.
No one I know has been tested positive-a few feel like they have been exposed.

The retirement home within eye sight of my house has had at least 50 deaths. I worry about a friends dad that is there and the nice guy that comes to the golf course on league night. Was told that half of the residents have it. *******************

Glad my mom is not around for this. She would be freaking out even though she never went many places and lived a half mile away from anyone. Also glad she is not in the nursing home.
Dad would not care at all and do what he always did.  But their county in Iowa just had its first confirmed case of CV19.


I will add this article from the Onion. Oldie by a goodie.
https://www.theonion.com/planet-earth-doesnt-know-how-to-make-it-any-clearer-it-1819572679


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 02, 2020, 06:25:48 PM
Has anyone looked at the CDC provisional death counts as of May 1st? What struck me was the number of unrelated pneumonia deaths already 64K. You hear crickets about this death count. Better start getting a pneumonia vaccine.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on May 02, 2020, 06:47:21 PM
i am in istanbul
i adhere to social distancing
i have been wearing a mask since Feb 13th it is now compulsory when leaving house.
we have 100% lockdowns every weekend current one is 3 days as may 1st was a public holiday
I have 4 close friends locally who have tested positive
2 were in ICU for 10-14 days and recovered but still struggling both are mid 40s both still having lingering health problems.
1 american journalist friend here suffered badly wouldnt wish it on his worst enemy he is recovering he is in late 40s but struggling with chest pains and and extreme shortness of breath , still struggling with loss of smell and taste..him being from texas has a love for taco but he no longer can taste anything that he was familiar with.
1 young turkish friend early 30s tested positive had mild symptons of fever and diarrhea recovered but still in isolation 5 weeks on.
i know of others that i only know or met perhaps once .
myself and my wife leave the house for short exercise or only if absolute necessary and that is basically only when we need to replenish our masks which are supplied free 5 per week per citizen.

in short not even risking or taking anything for granted whilst my friends were in hospital they had NO visits from any family due to strict quarantine so think about that because it may be the last time they will ever see you alive all because you thought you were safe or didnt follow the advice.the lockdowns we have adjusted too and locally here in turkey lifting the restrictions gradually have a target to begin end of may until then you just have to accept it and look for the positive news ..
one rule for all here not state,regional,city exceptions ..

ps its not an obsession about America just somewhat shocked how it is all seems so divided and polarized at such a turbulent time . being a foreigner in foreign land watching overseas news was a daily thing but i gave up three weeks ago not seen or watched any international news just follow our local news once a day.

do take care ..
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 02, 2020, 06:50:57 PM
weather34--I quit watching the news too. Only local. Nothing else. Sometimes that is too much.

Also am tired of commercials. We are supposed to try to go on about our business but every business wants us to see how self serving they are and remind us they care. Ugh.


What really stinks is that it is a great day-but the wind is too strong for a good bonfire tonight. Red flag warnings.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on May 02, 2020, 06:55:33 PM
i sympathize and i have a strong connection to our k12 international school so you can relate to the shear uncertainty,teachers feeling the strain yet all still are employed  adapting to teaching online but  graduation this year isnt happening and unlikely school will reopen before end of school year June 3rd week.. turbulent and uncertainty ...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 02, 2020, 07:01:50 PM
ps its not an obsession about America just somewhat shocked how it is all seems so divided and polarized at such a turbulent time .
This "time" has nothing to do with it, this has been on going for 3.5 years and will continue...virus or not. It's truly an unbelievable sad state what has become.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 02, 2020, 07:04:36 PM
Also am tired of commercials.
Commercials?? What's that? I haven't watched one of those in basically 15 years and love every second I don't. God bless the DVR. =D&gt;
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 02, 2020, 08:00:14 PM
I attached an antenna to the TV to get more channels. Get them there.

Then getting them on Hulu. Very political. ugh
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 02, 2020, 08:12:26 PM
So far I never had to wear a mask yet.  I wouldn't be against wearing one temporarily if it really helped keep people around me from panicking any more than they already are, whether it's rational or not; or if a store I patronize required it, I think they have that right.  I don't always fault people for their fears, and it probably wouldn't do much good to try to reason with them on the street.  I always carry a bandana anyway.

But I think I would fight against something like this:
“We, Stillwater Police Department, are not stopping motorists to ensure the driver is wearing or in possession of a face covering.
  :shock:
I appreciate they're not stopping people for driving in their own cars without face masks.  I assume they're not entering people's houses to make sure they're not sleeping without one on their face or on their bed stand either.

As to keeping score between nations/regions, even if all we're looking at are the numbers, I think we should keep in mind that the game isn't over yet, even if some think they've already won the game.

It seems there are at least two extremes; those who think they've beat it, and those who may live in fear of it for the rest of their hopefully long lives.

ps its not an obsession about America just somewhat shocked how it is all seems so divided and polarized at such a turbulent time . being a foreigner in foreign land watching overseas news was a daily thing but i gave up three weeks ago not seen or watched any international news just follow our local news once a day.
Keep in mind that we have a news media that is really playing up to and trying to stoke the division.  Rather than just reporting the news they seem more intent on causing a revolution or something.  I guess division and panic sells papers, and they think they're being moral by trying to shape people's minds into what they want everyone to believe.  They want to make news rather than report it.

It's not like I'm constantly at war with my neighbors or something.  At least much of the disagreement here seems to be international, people telling people from other countries what they should to do.

Is the virus worse in Istanbul and places much like it was worse in NYC here?  How about the little sheepherder villages and places?  It's been thirty years, but the places I remember were already pretty isolated without many visitors or means of transportation.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 02, 2020, 08:24:49 PM
Then getting them on Hulu. Very political. ugh
Pay not to get them there either. Can't even imagine which way the bias goes.... :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on May 02, 2020, 08:47:32 PM
My wife watches about the virus on the tube most of the day.  Same old stuff.  I often get the morning report from her before my first cut of coffee. Anyway, When I drive to the store, that is I order online from Hy-Vee what I would love to have in my cart, and go pick it up at a reserved time.  I wear my paper surgical mask.  Not the N95 but the kind the doctors use when they are cutting away on some poor sap.   I also have extra large surgical gloves.  i bought a lot a year ago, when I had hand surgery and needed to cover the hand because I wipe my hiney with that hand.  Anyway, so If I am pumping gas, then yeah, I can put on a pair of these and then toss them in the trash bin before I get back into the car.   I have foaming hand soap and i wash with that.   My wife wears her cloth mask,  goggles, gloves, a scarf and takes the dog out or when she drives.  I do caution her that she should remove it from her face so she doesn't hyperventilate with the carbon dioxide concentration .   

I really don't want the virus, the 2 week high fever , the chills  really do not make me want it.  I had Mono in college and remember still the chills, shivers. The guys in the dorm piled blankets on me at night. the fever bleah...  and not being able to make it to the bathroom isn't going to be a good option.  Going out the window probably the neighbors would object.  And with my luck something would go wrong on my weatherstation and I couldn't fix it.

I don't mind social distancing.  I am normally home and with the exception of going to Rube's Steakhouse for a wonderful steak dinner, (damn that salad didn't do it for me. Maybe the Hickory Farms salami in the basement is beckoning me to bring it up for a sandwich) i am content with my cooking and the wife as well. She is grading college finals this week and next so between the virus and her calls from students in the final throes of realizing they should have been writing those compositions...

we had plans on driving up through Wisconsin, into Northern Michigan, cross into Ontario at St. Sault Marie, overnighting at Bruce Mines at Bobbers, then Pembroke down into NY State , stopping at Moors for a nice lunch with homemade bread into Vermont, ending up in Montpeiller and dinner a Julios  just isn't going to happen this year and it is annoying but something we need to do.

IF I can prevent getting sick along with the wife, then I am going to do the mitigation.  I have a firm belief we are scratching the surface of finding out how to control this virus if we get it. Shaving 4 days off recovery if you live that long doesn't sound like much , but it is huge as something works, now to find whatelse works. Vaccine maybe 2 years for one that I can go to CVS and have them poke me as they do with the regular flu would be wonderful.

My daughter and granddaughter, they go out and about. We don't have lockdown in Iowa, so they get take out. I miss the chinese place up the street = mongolian beef calling my name.  Iowa has 99 counties.  We also have 22 that are locked down.  Polk county has the highest number of new cases - ages 19-60  the working class.   We also have a bozo governor who claims we are flattening the curve.  Probably the sick in the nursing homes are dying and there is a finite number of them.

I have always felt that people will do what they feel like doing.   Some, like us, will isolate and hopefully not get cabin fever and eat the squirrel in the trees. Some will go out and socialize, they don't give a flying F and will go for it.  Some will be in the middle.  I would say, if you are upset with the restrictions,  go where you want to go, do what you wanna do..   hopefully you will be one who either doesn't get it or a mild case and if you get to the vent, give the middle finger and say "Idid it my way."

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/iowa (https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/iowa)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 02, 2020, 09:28:14 PM
Some, like us, will isolate and hopefully not get cabin fever and eat the squirrel in the trees.
Nothing wrong with squirrel meat.  I've hunted and eaten many in the past.  Around here they're just too small to mess with, I don't even know if they have a season or not here.

My dog and I do get quite a few gophers, I've never thought about trying to eat them, and my dog just carries them around like they're her babies until they rot away.  We just kill them for pest control.

Anyone know what gophers taste like?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 02, 2020, 10:16:47 PM
Some, like us, will isolate and hopefully not get cabin fever and eat the squirrel in the trees.
Nothing wrong with squirrel meat.  I've hunted and eaten many in the past.  Around here they're just too small to mess with, I don't even know if they have a season or not here.

My dog and I do get quite a few gophers, I've never thought about trying to eat them, and my dog just carries them around like they're her babies until they rot away.  We just kill them for pest control.

Anyone know what gophers taste like?

Only Hawkeyes know!!! Go Iowa!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on May 02, 2020, 10:21:06 PM
Here's a map by county https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS-USA/0100B5K8423/index.html
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 03, 2020, 12:08:03 AM

Only Hawkeyes know!!! Go Iowa!
:-)

Aardvarks eat insects that burrow underground, but I guess even Iowan Aardvarks don't eat burrowing rodents.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on May 03, 2020, 01:35:34 AM
Quote


Is the virus worse in Istanbul and places much like it was worse in NYC here?  How about the little sheepherder villages and places?  It's been thirty years, but the places I remember were already pretty isolated without many visitors or means of transportation.

in comparison to NYC no a big no if it were i would be looking for a route out , istanbul has changed in that 30 years a lot .population alone in istanbul is around 17-18 million . smaller villages have grown in to small district towns very few left .
one of important  things we have to adhere too since mid march is you can not travel between cities,regions without a permit and those permits have to be applied for. this keeps the food flowing as we are NOT dependant on imported food , imported food is a luxury we also have a strong textile,component manufacturing industry many have been kept running by manufacturing and providing medical PPE and other medical equipment hence Turkey is shipping tons of medical based stuff weekly to various countries including USA , i think 83 tons ! of ppe,equipment was sent to UK . think you can now understand why we are somewhat shocked at the diversity,polarization of USA at present .there is no panic here , concern yes but continous adapting with hope .flights internal are non existent, international flights are probably 1 or 2 per day but most of them are expatriates being repatriated.

brian
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 03, 2020, 01:51:40 AM
Quote
Is the virus worse in Istanbul and places much like it was worse in NYC here?  How about the little sheepherder villages and places?  It's been thirty years, but the places I remember were already pretty isolated without many visitors or means of transportation.
think you can now understand why we are somewhat shocked at the diversity,polarization of USA at present
And as I stated above Brian, the "diversity, polarization" is merely a continuation of what HAS been occurring. This is 95% political here, and that's a fact. This virus is nothing more than a "good crisis not going to waste".
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on May 03, 2020, 02:04:16 AM
Quote
Is the virus worse in Istanbul and places much like it was worse in NYC here?  How about the little sheepherder villages and places?  It's been thirty years, but the places I remember were already pretty isolated without many visitors or means of transportation.
think you can now understand why we are somewhat shocked at the diversity,polarization of USA at present
And as I stated above Brian, the "diversity, polarization" is merely a continuation of what HAS been occurring. This is 95% political here, and that's a fact. This virus is nothing more than a "good crisis not going to waste".

lets hope in the future many will look back at this period and change their ways or may be they wont and it will just become a normality of how things get handled good or bad. anyway you take care i dont want offend anyone or ruffle their feathers all i wish for is a stable outcome but make no mistake this period has highlighted many things to those outside .. perhaps its always been like that.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on May 03, 2020, 06:37:14 AM
...all i wish for is a stable outcome but make no mistake this period has highlighted many things to those outside .. perhaps its always been like that.
I watched 'The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance' on Amazon Prime last evening.  It's a 68 year-old Western made in that genre's best traditions of Melodrama, i.e. good vs. evil.  It depicts a fictitious frontier town victimized by a lawless bully and his gang.  The inchoate lives of those who are trying to live and thrive there coalesce around a young lawyer who tries to civilize the place.  The lawyer rallies the town together under the U.S. Constitution's promises, not of universal harmony but of peaceful compromise between armed vocal, and sometimes violent competing interests, ostensibly between farmers and open-range cattlemen.

Of particular interest is the newspaper publisher's take on his role in the community when the town makes him one of their territory's two delegates to the statehood convention!  What he says is so true, and yet this fundamental property of any 'news' media isn't acknowledged by our exalted, in their own eyes anyway, media today.  Suffice it to say that during such times innocence is hard to come by and both sides end up with blood on their hands, but one side much more so than the other.

This old movie depicts allegorically how the USA was created and how it manages to survive: through vigilant compromise between competing interests.  One of the aphorisms carved into the Nebraska State Capitol is 'The salvation of the State is watchfulness in the citizen'.  It has never been more true.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 03, 2020, 01:24:10 PM
Here's a map by county https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS-USA/0100B5K8423/index.html
Case totals in Kansas and Nebraska have spiked well ahead of Oklahoma, due to more meat processing plants affected.  In light of that, I don't see how sporting events and concerts can resume without people wearing masks and temperature checks.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on May 03, 2020, 03:02:24 PM
Iowa still has cases, no curve flattening.   I am in one of those moods.   Sure let the people go back to work, open their businesses, hire back their staff.  However, there is no guarantee that anyone will go out to eat, especially the  older population who has the money to spend because they have been saving their nest egg for times like this. 

Nothing is going to be normal again, maybe a new normal.  No guarantee we will have a vaccine, a treatment, a pill to take if you get this thing.   

I looked at the numbers (the math geek , that I am) and it is the ages 19-60 who are leading the pack in getting the virus, in Iowa.   Gov. Reynolds tries to say it is the Latino workers who may or might not be legal, in the meat plants causing the numbers to rise.  Yet the deaths are in the nursing homes. Iowa has lost 184 people.  I am guessing that if someone in those places get it, they die in their beds, not going into the hospital.

I digress.   So let these folks go back to work.     Iowa has this testiowa which has flaws. In fact Iowa has to go back and redo many tests "to validate the results," which means they are not sure if they were done right.  Yeah Ashton Kutcher told Gov reynolds, he knew of a company that could do these tests.  SOunded to me much like that company that did the ill fated caucus app earlier.  Anyway,   We filled out the online form and do not qualify, although I have conditions that would be nice to see how we are doing. No, I don't think I have been exposed so far, nor the wife.   today we are going out for gasoline for her buggy and mail a check to the lawn mower guy.

Anyway,   there is an old chinese curse " May you live in interesting times.' boy they got that right.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 04, 2020, 12:46:26 AM
People young and old really need to take seriously the need to wear masks when going to stores. It's a way to go forward, rather than backward from this virus crisis. Some people may regard wearing a mask as a sign of the person as being weak, but ending up in the hospital from not wearing a mask is a much greater sign of being weak as well as stubbornly stupid. 

An Oklahoma state rep who was sick from being positive with COVID-19 and had to be hospitalized for a day thinks the first steps authorized by the Oklahoma governor was too early to start going back to normal. Hopefully, enough people willing to wear masks will prove the rep wrong.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on May 04, 2020, 11:11:06 AM
Menards and Costco in Des Moines is now requiring masks into the stores, plus no one under the age of 16.   I have relatives in Los Angeles. they say they can't go into any store without wearing a mask.  they can purchase them anywhere but if they don't have one on, stores won't let them in the doors.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: alanb on May 04, 2020, 12:28:35 PM
Menards and Costco in Des Moines is now requiring masks into the stores, plus no one under the age of 16.   I have relatives in Los Angeles. they say they can't go into any store without wearing a mask.  they can purchase them anywhere but if they don't have one on, stores won't let them in the doors.
The Cedar Rapids area Menards need to adopt this policy! I was at Menards in Marion on Saturday to pick up some lawn and gardening items. They were very busy with most checkout lanes open. I wore a mask and gloves and all the Menards employees were wearing masks but only about 1/3 of the customers had masks. I held back in the cleckout line to maintain distance from the person in front of me and you might know someone not wearing a mask rudely cut in front of me into the space I was leaving so I had to change to a different lane! I was very uncomfortable there and got in and out as fast as possible.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on May 04, 2020, 12:35:09 PM
Watching Gov. reynolds on the latest updates of 534 new cases , 4 deaths and she is avoiding reporters questions , in particular in areas that she has opened up have deaths and more case.   She says "Iowans need to work and we are not political and we are opening the state."   OMG.    Trump gave Branstad an ambassadorship to China, maybe he will give her one to North Korea or Yemen.    398 are right now in hospitals, ICU and only 1/3 recovered.

I wish this was over and we'd be talking about weather again, but right now  it looks like rain, my wife doesn't feel well and trying to get an appointment at University hospital clinic in Coralville.  I'll hide out in the car to avoid going in.    I hate this isolation, but then again,  I don't want to get sick, even a mild case of it.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: alanb on May 04, 2020, 12:41:23 PM
I hope your wife is OK Aardvark! An article in the CR Gazette today said 54% of Iowans approve of Gov. Reynolds handling of the COVID-19 pandemic. Seems like you and I are in the minority again  :sad:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 04, 2020, 03:01:22 PM
The Cedar Rapids area Menards need to adopt this policy!
Did you let them know?  If not I'm sure you can contact them and let them know your feelings as a customer.

I don't believe in just leaving everything up to the state to regulate.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 04, 2020, 03:14:55 PM
I thought Menards and Costco was requiring this as of today.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on May 04, 2020, 04:51:31 PM
The EAS alert came regarding the extension of the shelter-in-place order through May 31, 2020 ( https://www.sccgov.org/sites/covid19/Pages/order-health-officer-050420.aspx).  The COVID19 Dashboard for Santa Clara County (https://www.sccgov.org/sites/covid19/Pages/dashboard.aspx) shows 2244 confirmed, 117 deaths, 131 currently hospitalized in the county to date.

Some additional businesses are permitted to open (landscape supply). Out-of-home requires masks/face covering, 6ft social distancing, and washing of hands as per before.  The wife and I (both in our 70s) are staying home except for the weekly grocery shop or pickup from a restaurant, and even if the shelter-in-place is lifted, we don't see relaxing that until a vaccine is available.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 05, 2020, 04:09:33 AM
Stillwater City Council addresses constitutional concerns:

Riley Flack, an outspoken critic of the City of Stillwater who has lately taken issue with measures adopted to slow the spread of coronavirus, addressed the councilors Monday night via Zoom.

“I know many of you have probably read some difficult comments to read from me and I just want to first acknowledge that you guys all up there are valuable beyond the ideas you espouse and the policies that you prescribe,” Flack told the councilors. “You have intrinsic value that goes beyond what I say or what anyone else says. I appreciate you guys more on a human level than a Facebook comment can afford me.”

But Flack said it’s also been difficult for him to read statements made by Mayor Will Joyce and City Manager Norman McNickle. He particularly found a statement saying “No law or court supports this view” about people who believe being required to wear a face covering violates their constitutional rights. He objected to the idea that what he views as constitutional rights protecting citizens from the government could be “so flippantly thrown aside.”

Flack said he understands the difficulty of writing the restrictions that were part of the mayor’s emergency declaration and he doesn’t think it was done lightly.

He takes issue with the data and modeling being used to arrive at and support the mayor and council’s decisions. He also takes issue with what he views as the council’s dismissal of arguments that the restrictions place on residents as a result of the emergency order could be unconstitutional.

“I don’t question the motives of you folks,” he said. “Being fellow citizens of Stillwater, you want the best for Stillwater … I would just appreciate a little more consideration for my rights as an American ...I would just appreciate more discussion with respect to the rights of the citizens that you seemingly have flippantly disregarded.”

Later in the meeting, Mayor Will Joyce responded to Flack’s comments saying, “I certainly don’t mean to be flippant about anybody’s constitutional rights. I am an attorney, a licensed attorney and as a member of this council, sworn to uphold the constitution as well. I take that very seriously. I think we all do, I know we all do.

“My comments about mask orders is that the constitution certainly doesn’t mention anything about face coverings, especially in the time of a pandemic and so it is a law or potential law that would have to be interpreted by the courts … and my comment is, I haven’t seen anything from a court, certainly not the Supreme Court that would say that it does. Several states and cities have these in place already and so to my knowledge, there is not a court ruling or a law out there that would say the city’s not allowed to make that rule.

“That was the point of my comment, it certainly wasn’t meant to be flippant about people’s constitutional rights and I think we all, again, want to maintain those to the extent we can. But everything we do here, we have to weigh the safety of our community against all those other considerations as well … We’re not just going out and trying to make as many rules as we can.”

He said the City’s goal is to treat the pandemic with the caution and the concern that it deserves.

Joyce gave an update of the COVID-19 situation in Stillwater, including a brief recap of the controversy generated by a city requirement that shoppers wear face coverings when they entered stores.

“It was a quiet weekend in Stillwater from a COVID-19 standpoint, but not really at all,” he said.

The face covering mandate was part of an emergency declaration that took effect Friday and by afternoon, it had been repealed because stores had trouble enforcing it. Some people responded angrily, when told they couldn’t enter without one, causing store employees to feel threatened.

An anonymous caller later made a threat to the Stillwater Police Department.

Joyce said the mask requirement was rescinded because he didn’t think it was fair for store employees to have to deal with that.

The story caught the attention of national and international media.

“There was quite a reaction to that modification,” Joyce said. “Lots of people interpreted it in lots of different ways … I think the most unfortunate thing about it in terms of the coverage, for me, was a somewhat skewed view of our town in terms of people talking about ugliness and things that were happening here … I was disappointed in some places to see Stillwater portrayed as some sort of lawless, Wild West town, which I don’t think was the case but we also wanted to make sure we weren’t creating problems for folks at the stores.”

He said Friday’s events don’t represent the general atmosphere in Stillwater in these trying times.

“The community has been very positive in its response to everything we’ve been doing over the last 6-8 weeks,” Joyce said, noting that compliance had been widespread.

In spite of the controversy over face coverings, Joyce said he heard the re-opening of businesses that chose to open Friday in accordance with Gov. Kevin Stitt’s plan generally went well.

The modified order remains in effect until the end of May. City leaders will evaluate the situation as it ends to see if Stillwater should move into phase 2 of the re-opening or if cases of COVID-19 are spiking and the city needs to re-implement stricter guidelines.

FROM:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/city-council-addresses-constitutional-concerns/article_1275488c-a480-5df2-b4fe-723bc80a2601.html
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on May 05, 2020, 02:11:39 PM
in iowa, people are getting sick, mostly ages 19-40.  People are dying  19 from yesterday. Hyvee is limiting meat purchase starting May 6. As many people at meat plants and manufacturing are getting sick.   We have over 10,000 total cases, and 77 counties have been opened up.   Wife and I have predicted that in 3 weeks we will have a spike upward in cases in those counties.   Anyway, the Gov isn't doing anything to mitigate anything and the mayor of Des Moines isn't requiring anyone to do any mitigation other than the standard, 6 foot rule .   People and flocking in crowds to parks and businesses in those counties. 

I have no problem with people going back to work. In fact some of the eateries in the open counties are noticing no one wants to go there.  And from one of the federal labs ,  the virus has mutated.

Oh shit.  So lookie, if you want to go out and get in a huggy group go for it, just don't complain if  you get sick.  ME?   hunkering down.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 05, 2020, 04:30:06 PM
Meanwhile, in Oklahoma's other major college town, Norman, salon owners sued for not being allowed to open along with other businesses.  They won.

https://www.normantranscript.com/news/district-judge-balkman-issues-temporary-injunction-on-mayor-clarks-order/article_698b93d8-8e51-11ea-b817-d3e2082fe791.html (https://www.normantranscript.com/news/district-judge-balkman-issues-temporary-injunction-on-mayor-clarks-order/article_698b93d8-8e51-11ea-b817-d3e2082fe791.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 05, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Some people don't seem to understand, or care, that not everyone is getting a pension and has the luxury of hiding behind their doors and have nothing to do but to whine and complain.  Even if they open restaurants and salons, so what, there's no law that I have to go.  I'm not going to complain about others going either.  And I'm especially not going to root for people to get sick for going, or take glee in someone's restaurant business failing because people didn't go either.

People are going to get sick.  It's a pandemic. It's sad.  But so is seeing lives destroyed and ruined based upon guesses and fear.  If you're on a pension, don't need to work, don't have to worry about losing your livelihood, then by all means, hide and whine and complain about people who want to have a life to go back to.




Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on May 06, 2020, 06:07:23 AM
Even pensioners and us who were required to continue working won't have any resources or reason eventually.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 06, 2020, 09:32:07 AM
Me.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p960x960/95538737_2771416599573786_469223695324282880_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=3knPT5M1HjUAX8j6nB3&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=eb48479fd2caffb2940978004f378f36&oe=5ED663E6)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 06, 2020, 09:50:54 AM
Worth posting again from a local teacher her post is below, withheld name.

Myself, I'll predict this virus for any chance of burning out or going away will require community immunity, so around 60%-70% with antibodies. A vaccine is nothing but a pipe dream. We should have done as the Swedes but a much better job protecting the vulnerable than either did. Nursing homes in both countries was a disgrace and disaster, totally inexcusable. Everyone was being told of a much higher mortality rate than actual so it scared the snot out of everyone but once we realized the true rate it's time to pull up our big boy pants and reopen. 

This was posted on local school teacher FB page:

There are those wanting to reopen yet they’re being classified as selfish. There are those that rely on all kinds of people to supply them while they cower in fear at home. Isn’t that being selfish too?

You expect your garbage to be picked up, you expect the grocery store to be open so you can get milk, you expect truck drivers to supply the stores, you expect farmers, meatpackers, fruit and vegetable pickers all to keep food in that grocery store.

You expect Amazon to still ship all the things you’re ordering while you sit at home shopping. You expect the delivery driver to leave it on your doorstep. You expect your phone to work, your power to stay on, and your mail to show up rain, sleet, or shine.  And most important, you expect the doctors and nurses to be there if you need them although many of them across the country have been furloughed because their units and services have been shut down while the entire system focuses only on COVID19.

The whole premise of shelter in place is based on the arrogant idea that others must risk their health so you can protect yours. There is nothing virtuous about ignoring the largely invisible army required to allow people to shelter in place.

I know there are some of you that are screaming mad about what I just said but stop and really think about what is allowing you to stay safe in your home.
I truly believe that with some common sense on my part, I could easily go back to life as it was. I want to go to restaurants, I want to shop at the little store just up the road.


And yes, I could catch COVID-19. I could also catch the flu or a cold.  I could get run over by a bus.  I could get struck by lightning. We take risks everyday. If you choose to stay home, that is absolutely your choice. And please don’t start screaming at me about how I’ll just spread it. Why are you worried? You won’t get it because you’re staying in your home. Are you going to shelter in place every time a new strand of the flu happens?

Our economy can’t withstand much more of this. If our economy collapses, so will the rest of the world’s. If that happens, you will see the rise of tyrants.
I absolutely don’t want people to die...from COVID or anything else. I want people to live.

But sheltering in place is not living.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on May 06, 2020, 10:20:21 AM
I've known for a long time how anti-social I am and I love it, it's a lifestyle. The only thing that has changed in my life is when I got to town and get horsed around by merchants who bought into this charade. We still only had 3 cases in the county who I'm sure have long since recovered and no deaths, yet I'm mandated to do stupid things in the name of? - well, in the name of I don't know actually? As far as masks, I'm beginning to look suspiciously at people wearing them. Do they have the virus and think they're not sharing it? Or, maybe they're like the Charley Brown character with his security blanket? In any case they are on my suspect list to be avoided. Laughter, courtesy, good manners have long since left the station.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on May 06, 2020, 10:42:00 AM
... Do they have the virus and think they're not sharing it?......

Well, that is the whole idea of the mask. If you do have it, and everyone wears a mask, and washes hands, there is a very small percentage of passing it along. So assume you may have it and wear a mask. It is good for everybody.

Do you know for sure nobody can bring it into your county? Are you locked down? If not, being asked to take a small precaution does not seem much like bullying.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on May 06, 2020, 11:14:38 AM
Ok, how about you document the last in depth study from a reputable organization proving that wearing a mask, any mask, assures you won't spread the virus, or get it for that matter? And, of course more and more factual numbers are coming in showing you are far from guaranteed to die even if you get it, in fact, you may not even get "sick" which is, of course, creating the herd immunity. Of course the dogooders are padding the death numbers of anyone who dies of almost any cause as virus related, so the real death toll will never be known, but go ahead and refer me to the study that assures wearing a mask prevents spread.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on May 06, 2020, 11:40:20 AM
No one ever said wearing a mask "ensures" that you don't spread it. If you decide you don't want to be convinced of something, nothing will convince you but anyway, it has to do with trapping the transmission of larger particles - like water droplets from a sneeze or the normal amount of moisture we expel just talking.

Here's an analogy from an epidemiologist, if that helps.

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on May 06, 2020, 12:08:26 PM
Oh, so now we're down to 3rd grade level analogies? Please post the name of the epidemiologist, I'd not ever want to consider them as a serious medical source. Tell you what, here's an article quoting the CDC, Dr. Birx and some others, they're making a living at these kinds of things, so maybe they're a bit above 3rd grade level.

https://khn.org/news/to-curb-coronavirus-whats-behind-the-wearing-of-a-mask/

I don't sneeze, cough or pass wind in public, I consider it a courtesy to others.

PS: Was the effectiveness of this logic actually tested, or was it derived from a "model"? - you see the problem here, everyone is an expert?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on May 06, 2020, 12:40:35 PM
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/marc-lipsitch/ (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/marc-lipsitch/)

The example was meant to be humorous. And, as with everything that even seems the slightest bit political these days, if something goes against what one believes, they expect everyone else to make an airtight case to support it and totally lose the ability to even do simple dotting i's and crossing t's.

The info is out there. Find it yourself if you really want to know.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on May 06, 2020, 01:10:30 PM
Back about 1990 I did a short stretch as a head hunter and it was an education for me. I've always revered people who had the perseverance and opportunity to get a specialized higher education, masters, doctorate etc. But when I was immersed in reading these people's CV's, resumes etc and then trying to place them I began to understand the old adage which says those who work do, those who can't (or won't) teach. Now, that's a bit harsh and obviously not across the board true, it did illustrate my findings. I had one guy with a 25 page CV and to read it, it's approached divinity, this guy should have been able to walk into any company in America - I couldn't find anyone even interested in him. My point being that all these highly educated people often don't have the common sense to come in out of the rain. Yet today we're sitting here in our caves because they claim we should? - who made them lord and master over me a free American?

Obviously I have no belief in the validity of this charade except to understand it for the scam it is. If you do, fine, wear your mask, hide under the bed at home for as long as you want, it's your prerogative, but hear me and hear me clearly; do not attempt to coerce me into participating in your imaginings, either political or real. Do not come to my door and expect me to contribute one cent to your fantasy by way of tax etc. Do not force me to stand in a red square waiting for Pavlov's bell to tell me to move forward. Generally; either lead or follow, get out of the way, I've got a limited number of years left to live and you'll know me when you see me coming, I'll not be wearing a mask.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on May 06, 2020, 03:13:31 PM
U don't fart in public......

So how about considering it a courtesy to wear a mask to ally after people's 'unfounded' precautions.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on May 06, 2020, 04:09:52 PM
Produce the documentation and I'll consider it - until then "get off my lawn".
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 07, 2020, 02:15:12 AM
LOL, this satirical piece comes from the Lost Ogle, named that way after apparently one of the other Ogles brothers was missing after the famous Ogle identical  twins in Oklahoma City split up.  One became a news anchor at channel 4 and the other became a news anchor at channel 9:

Stillwater residents fight for their right to spread COVID-19:  https://www.thelostogle.com/2020/05/04/stillwater-residents-fight-for-their-right-to-spread-covid-19/

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 07, 2020, 03:50:15 AM
 :lol: :roll:

I kind of miss Mad Magazine.  It had far higher journalistic standards and was actually funny. 

I'm sure a site that promotes pot is really concerned about public health and safety.  :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on May 07, 2020, 10:41:28 AM
:lol: :roll:

I kind of miss Mad Magazine.  It had far higher journalistic standards and was actually funny. 

I'm sure a site that promotes pot is really concerned about public health and safety.  :roll:
Yeah, Alfred didn't really care who he dissed while being one of the leading politicians of the past century.  :lol:
(https://www.chisholm-poster.com/large/CL50915.jpg)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 07, 2020, 01:00:27 PM
(https://scontent.fmci1-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/96283972_3811761092199692_8230958966247522304_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=zr3SMcnK9YUAX_s2tDh&_nc_ht=scontent.fmci1-4.fna&oh=4630e343e08fc06a59ee479569309b11&oe=5ED924B5)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on May 09, 2020, 04:59:07 AM
my local american texan friend here in istanbul  still recovering but take note of his experience , its not a media sensationalism post its real words from a real experience. i think its when you actually know someone with first hand experience it kind of makes you think wiser.. [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on May 09, 2020, 09:23:24 AM
It seems that now various mutations can be 'aged' and tracked, the US West Coast was first infected directly from China.

... but ...

The most virulent and incapacitating variety that has spread across the US came in to New York later via the UK.

Sorry about that  :-|
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 09, 2020, 10:50:59 AM
Wearing an N95 mask may make you feel good and provide some protection but without goggles or face shield it's still like playing Russian roulette. This virus can and will easily penetrate the eyes when airborne, ask any health worker everyone wears face shields or goggles. The area my daughter-in-law works in training RN in Arizona has had 75 cases in a town of 7,800 and happens to be just off the Navajo Rez, which is one of the hardest-hit areas with a high death rate due to mainly secondary health issues.
 
Back in Nebraska locally they don't recommend the cloth mask at all, in fact, one of the doctors did a public service health announcement on local radio despite the recommendation by CDC about wearing cloth face-covering informing the public of the risk and how unsanitary moist coverings are and how they become a virus attractant and petri dish for infections.  The health risk outweighs the benefit.  Yes to N95 and surgical but no to the cloth mask.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 09, 2020, 11:04:30 AM
The golf course I work at is open.

Clubhouse is closed except for bathrooms.
No walk ups. Appointment only-even though we are a small par 3.
We do business through a window and card only.
Can sell sealed beverages and food. No cooking of food.
After a cart comes back-we spray it down with disinfectant.

We are given gloves, masks, eye ware and it is our choice to wear them.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 09, 2020, 11:54:14 AM
Nice story why the Irish are helping the hard-hit Navajo's.
 
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/173-years-170-why-irish-people-are-donating-help-native-n1200811?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR0r_-rfVimpuGi0ONRAoiEgOr2RiMweuqwbK6WVoIz77S7ha5ZDJwdn2IE
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 09, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
Oklahoma ready to do in state processing of saliva tests for COVID19.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/alternative-to-the-dreaded-nasal-swab-osu-lab-ready-for-covid-tests-using-simpler-safer/article_78999f02-4abe-5e20-87b8-3bbb1822ba27.html#1 (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/alternative-to-the-dreaded-nasal-swab-osu-lab-ready-for-covid-tests-using-simpler-safer/article_78999f02-4abe-5e20-87b8-3bbb1822ba27.html#1)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Garth Bock on May 09, 2020, 08:40:39 PM
Down here in the Ozarks the reopening has begun but weeks before I saw people walking around, going into grocery stores with no masks or gloves. I think there is an attitude that " I don't know anyone who is sick and I feel okay so it isn't happening here ". Me..I wear long sleeve shirts, my biker glasses that seal around my eyes, cloth and dust mask and leather gloves. When I get home I throw everything in the washer and jump into a hot shower. I am treating this like nuclear fallout.

Not to go all conspiracy or SciFi on everyone but what if a foreign country wanted to take down their adversary. Nukes are too messy so why not release a disease. ? Sure it will kill some of their citizens but that is an acceptable loss. Then offer a cure but the one their citizens get is a cure but the one going to their adversary is not a complete cure. Their adversary has losses that are lower but enough to keep them crippled. Hate to sound suspicious but China can't be trusted.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 09, 2020, 09:26:11 PM
China can't be trusted.
=D&gt;

FACT.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 10, 2020, 02:42:47 AM
Wearing an N95 mask may make you feel good and provide some protection but without goggles or face shield it's still like playing Russian roulette. This virus can and will easily penetrate the eyes when airborne, ask any health worker everyone wears face shields or goggles. The area my daughter-in-law works in training RN in Arizona has had 75 cases in a town of 7,800 and happens to be just off the Navajo Rez, which is one of the hardest-hit areas with a high death rate due to mainly secondary health issues.
 
Back in Nebraska locally they don't recommend the cloth mask at all, in fact, one of the doctors did a public service health announcement on local radio despite the recommendation by CDC about wearing cloth face-covering informing the public of the risk and how unsanitary moist coverings are and how they become a virus attractant and petri dish for infections.  The health risk outweighs the benefit.  Yes to N95 and surgical but no to the cloth mask.

I wonder how masks are working out in real life.  Are many people complaining they always wore masks in public but came down with COVID-19 anyway?   While not as effective as medical grade masks, homemade cloth masks are found to be better than nothing from this study:  https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/diy-homemade-mask-protect-virus-coronavirus/ (https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/diy-homemade-mask-protect-virus-coronavirus/)

Meantime, according to Gov. Stitt, Oklahoma is on track to begin phase two of the state’s reopening plan starting May 15.

Here are the guidelines for phase two:

"Individual guidance:

Continue following safer-at-home guidelines if they are over 65 or part of a vulnerable population.
Maintain social distancing from others when in public.
Avoid socializing in groups that do not readily allow for appropriate social distancing.
Consider resuming nonessential travel.

Employer guidance:

Close common areas or enforce social distancing and sanitation protocols.
Honor requests of personnel who are members of a vulnerable population for special accommodations.
Employers are recommended to implement social distancing protocols, which include proper sanitation and use of protective equipment when interacting with the public.

Specific Employer guidance:

Organized sports activities can reopen and operate under proper social distancing and sanitation protocols.
Visits to senior care facilities and hospitals should still be prohibited.
Bars can operate with diminished standing-room occupancy, where applicable and appropriate, and under social distancing and sanitation protocols.
Funerals and weddings can resume under social distancing protocols.
Children’s nursery areas in places of worship can reopen.

If hospital and incident rates remain at a manageable level for 14 days, the state will move to phase three."

In my town, I'm glad things haven't spiked, so far, from phase 1.  Positive cases in town remain at 22 with 21 recovered.  Nevertheless, I have shuddered when driving by the most popular Mexican restaurants, such as Palomino's, El Tapatio, and Mexico Joe's, while observing things looking mighty busy, leaving me wonder how social distancing at the tables can be followed.  I haven't visited them, and if I do it will be at a slack time.  Red Lobster still hasn't reopened.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 10, 2020, 03:04:50 AM

Back in Nebraska locally they don't recommend the cloth mask at all, in fact, one of the doctors did a public service health announcement on local radio despite the recommendation by CDC about wearing cloth face-covering informing the public of the risk and how unsanitary moist coverings are and how they become a virus attractant and petri dish for infections.  The health risk outweighs the benefit.  Yes to N95 and surgical but no to the cloth mask.

  While not as effective as medical grade masks, homemade cloth masks are found to be better than nothing from this study: 
No doubt this is uncharted territory, but just another example of why we are all constantly ](*,)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 10, 2020, 05:56:20 AM
There was a random cloth clinical trial (RCT) done back in 2015.

This was the conclusive summary:
This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection.

The doctor who was on the radio said the moisture retention and bacterial growth was a real concern with cloth mask.  Combined with poor filtration suggested the risk outweighed the benefit. Plus knowing the way this virus infects people without proper eye protection I'm sure was included in the risk-benefit factor.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on May 10, 2020, 09:48:55 AM
You know you can wash a cloth mask ?   I bet you could put it out in the car with the windows rolled up , right on the dash and let the heat do its best.  You need to wash those masks.

Do remember the cloth mask won't keep you from getting sick,  it helps keep me well because most of your sputum is absorbed in that mask.  So that is why you wash it in hot water.   Soap,  dry it with heat.   wait, you won't do that, you probably don't wash your underware either
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 10, 2020, 10:54:57 AM
You know you can wash a cloth mask ?   I bet you could put it out in the car with the windows rolled up , right on the dash and let the heat do its best.  You need to wash those masks.

Do remember the cloth mask won't keep you from getting sick,  it helps keep me well because most of your sputum is absorbed in that mask.  So that is why you wash it in hot water.   Soap,  dry it with heat.   wait, you won't do that, you probably don't wash your underware either

You have options its called stay at home or wear the proper PPE for yourself when out it's that simple. Then you have no worries about others, do you? Telling people to wear something that's not only ineffective for self-safety but becomes an attractant of viruses and bacteria because of moisture so you can feel good is the epitome of selfishness but its what I've come to expect so not surprising.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on May 10, 2020, 02:30:51 PM
so someone wants to stay alive and they are called selfish?
where has kindness gone in this world?
here we have been told from the very top to be kind to one another during this pandemic and together we will get through
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on May 10, 2020, 03:44:37 PM
I'll guarantee you that there aren't smiling faces behind those masks, there are grinding teeth and scowls, this has robbed us of common courtesy etc.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 10, 2020, 04:08:40 PM

Yeah, Alfred didn't really care who he dissed while being one of the leading politicians of the past century.  :lol:
(https://www.chisholm-poster.com/large/CL50915.jpg)
The "What-Me Worry?" Party.  That would be such a refreshing change to the "Panic and Hide - the World is Ending Party".

I am learning things from this thread, such as if you don't wear a mask you might as well not wear pants.  Science you can use.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 10, 2020, 04:17:26 PM
I laugh at people that have masks on but only cover their mouths.....What good does that do?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 10, 2020, 05:14:34 PM
I laugh at people that have masks on but only cover their mouths.....What good does that do?
Protects against diarrhea of the mouth?

Against those who accidentally vomit or spit in public, just like pants protect against those who accidentally relieve themselves in public?

Or maybe a fashion statement, like wearing baggy pants half-way down your ***?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 10, 2020, 05:29:06 PM
I laugh at people that have masks on but only cover their mouths.....What good does that do?
On a more serious note, I guess it's possible that there are people with chronic respiratory problems who need to have their breathing unimpeded as much as possible, but still want to do what they see as their "civic duty" and wear a mask.

That's one of my concerns about "mask shaming", or whatever you call it.  What about people who may have legitimate health reasons and concerns not to wear a mask, besides the already questionable science?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on May 10, 2020, 05:31:08 PM
Telling people to wear something that's not only ineffective for self-safety but becomes an attractant of viruses and bacteria because of moisture so you can feel good is the epitome of selfishness but its what I've come to expect so not surprising.

Wearing a cloth mask for 20 minutes while I'm grocery shopping isn't creating a bacteria factory. If someone is wearing one all day, though, that's a different story.

I'd quote y'all something about "amount of virus" and "time of exposure", but it's from one of them pesky "expert" y'all don't like.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on May 10, 2020, 05:32:11 PM
The purpose for asking people to use a face covering (surgical mask, bandana, homemade mask) is not to protect YOU from getting the disease, it's to minimize your possible infection spread to others by slowing down cough/breathing/exhalations and the moisture particles it contains.  It's your gift to others, so be a little altruistic and help others out.   Yes, you'll probably need to sanitize your covering when you return home and remove it, but it's a simple wash/dry task.  And yes, wear it over both nose and mouth to be effective.
It's a simple task to show you support humanity during this pandemic.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 11, 2020, 03:15:50 AM
You know you can wash a cloth mask ?   I bet you could put it out in the car with the windows rolled up , right on the dash and let the heat do its best.  You need to wash those masks.

Do remember the cloth mask won't keep you from getting sick,  it helps keep me well because most of your sputum is absorbed in that mask.  So that is why you wash it in hot water.   Soap,  dry it with heat.   wait, you won't do that, you probably don't wash your underware either

Never mind the underware part.  In other words, as you should treat every gun as if it is loaded, you should treat your body as if it is loaded with COVID-19.  So wear a mask.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 11, 2020, 06:39:02 AM
Let's stay on subject here we are talking about cloth mask, not approved N95 or surgical mask. Show me the science? The only science available is they don't work and are dangerous with zero evidence they reduce transmission. Whether it reduces the transmission of the virus when speaking is also only theory and conjecture.

Everyone being required to wear cloth mask don't always have this luxury of washing and drying to kill the bacteria several times a day. I have a grandson and daughter both required to wear this crap on 8 to10-hour shifts and have told me just how unsanitary cloth masks are. For anyone to preach how this is the neighborly thing to do is being heartless and selfish and not thinking of those actually being forced to wear this garbage day in and out.

Go ahead keep cowering at home agreeing with anything these clueless officials say so the world keeps moving while you're nicely tucked away safe at home.   :evil:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on May 11, 2020, 08:41:01 AM
I guess I'm getting old and my memory is failing but I don't remember many cross words on this forum in the past. Oh, possibly a little disagreement, but not to the level illustrated by this thread and this subject. Our losses from this charade are incalculable. One of the losses is the loss of civility and yes, that includes me. I told someone recently this whole charade has taken my sense of humor, my sense of civility, of common courtesy and my sense of optimism. All of these things I had mastered in my 77 years are now gone. I'm not a very social person, so much of this means little to me except as a casual observer, but I see what it's doing to other people and it engenders a great sadness in me for the loss of the country I love.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: wvdkuil on May 11, 2020, 08:42:23 AM
I guess I'm getting old and my memory is failing but I don't remember many cross words on this forum in the past. Oh, possibly a little disagreement, but not to the level illustrated by this thread and this subject. Our losses from this charade are incalculable. One of the losses is the loss of civility and yes, that includes me. I told someone recently this whole charade has taken my sense of humor, my sense of civility, of common courtesy and my sense of optimism. All of these things I had mastered in my 77 years are now gone. I'm not a very social person, so much of this means little to me except as a casual observer, but I see what it's doing to other people and it engenders a great sadness in me for the loss of the country I love.
1+  :sad:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on May 11, 2020, 09:03:09 AM
I guess I'm getting old and my memory is failing but I don't remember many cross words on this forum in the past. Oh, possibly a little disagreement, but not to the level illustrated by this thread and this subject. Our losses from this charade are incalculable. One of the losses is the loss of civility and yes, that includes me. I told someone recently this whole charade has taken my sense of humor, my sense of civility, of common courtesy and my sense of optimism. All of these things I had mastered in my 77 years are now gone. I'm not a very social person, so much of this means little to me except as a casual observer, but I see what it's doing to other people and it engenders a great sadness in me for the loss of the country I love.
2+  :-(

I have resigned myself from participating in this thread because it is full of vile interchange. I review it for adherence to our forum guidelines and I find that it hinges on marginal acceptability. I can't wait for this to be over. I worry about how much of the animosity created in this thread will later spill over to other topics between our members, just because the people involved here will have created biases against other members.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 11, 2020, 09:12:47 AM
locking is option. let me know.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on May 11, 2020, 09:23:23 AM
Yes locking is an option that I have too, if it were bad enough. I think is is good to have a place to discuss other matters, even important ones such as this whole pandemic. I just wish that it didn't tear us apart and that we could discuss matters and respect each other more. I don't want to take this away and neither does Ken.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 11, 2020, 09:51:24 AM
I am trying to find more humorous things to post. It is getting tougher to find.  Sad.

I took my wife for a drive yesterday. Not for any more reason than to get out of the house. Went to Wayzata and a little west. Just had to get away.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Tarma on May 11, 2020, 09:53:35 AM
So leave the mask on your dashboard and let the sun help sanitize it. Too bad we can't make a mask for this topic!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on May 11, 2020, 12:47:59 PM
I took my wife for a drive yesterday. Not for any more reason than to get out of the house. Went to Wayzata and a little west. Just had to get away.

 [tup]

Getting out for a drive or walk or other exercise is essential. I happen to have a daughter on a driving permit so it has been a boon toward getting her driving hours in (and luckily the worst white-knuckles part is past - she's pretty competent now). I had to go into Boston the other day and had her drive a route I never would have taken her down in actual rush hour traffic.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on May 11, 2020, 01:04:25 PM
 wearing a mask is an act of solidarity, with a small effort to protect others from the disease.as documented some who been tested positive show no symptoms,some who tested positive with no previous underlying health conditions show no symptoms. i see it has  nothing else but a humanitarian gesture for others.. been wearing a mask since february  and will continue todo so for as long as necessary, like many others in this world i have not seen my elderly relatives since february and they live only 1 km away..why ? one is battling a health condition and requires a oxygen ventilator every hour..

as for lockdown of thread no need let them bury themselves let them challenge anything and everything , let them chase the google search for info and read a 15 minute article and then portray themselves as knowledgeable.as i said before when you know someone who is close in friendship who has tested positive and gone through hell and trying to recover the reality of this disaster hits home. i now know of six friends who are positive and i have listened to their experiences and I just do everything within capability to reduce the risk however small or useless it may seem to others. everyone i know who has tested positive lives in a very densely populated area where the practices of social distance is hard to maintain not because of ignorance but the shear dense population in there areas.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 11, 2020, 01:34:35 PM
I don't mind the discussion getting sharp as long as there is no name calling.  Whether a mask should be worn in public is worthy of serious discussion.  I am hoping in my town wearing a mask will be considered less crucial to public officials,  due to few new cases in coming weeks and months.  Hopefully, no spikes.  So far, so good with phase 1. 

As a layman, I think a successful reopening of the economy will most depend on hospitals not being overwhelmed by new patients as restrictions let up from phase to phase.   Possibly this can be accomplished my older people, especially those with pre-existing health conditions, continue to stay at home and away from positive people.  Maintaining social distancing with easier and faster testing will also help.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 11, 2020, 01:53:10 PM
You can believe the Chinese or not, but NPR has reported that Wuhan is reporting a small cluster of six new COVID-19 cases — the first to be confirmed in Hubei province in at least 35 days.  Most were hard-to-detect asymptomatic cases.
More at:  https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/05/11/853731869/wuhan-reports-new-covid-19-cases-the-first-in-more-than-a-month?utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on May 11, 2020, 02:55:31 PM
The purpose for asking people to use a face covering (surgical mask, bandana, homemade mask) is not to protect YOU from getting the disease, it's to minimize your possible infection spread to others by slowing down cough/breathing/exhalations and the moisture particles it contains.  It's your gift to others, so be a little altruistic and help others out.   Yes, you'll probably need to sanitize your covering when you return home and remove it, but it's a simple wash/dry task.  And yes, wear it over both nose and mouth to be effective.
It's a simple task to show you support humanity during this pandemic.
+1   [tup]

I've been following the thread from the beginning and have enjoyed seeing reports of local conditions like Bunty's and Weather34's. Chief David's humor has been great and much needed. The, "I'm right and you're wrong" arguments not so much.

I'm 70 and retired so things haven't changed a lot. I used to go to the grocery store every day now I try to stretch it out to once a week or 10 days. It's been a challenge. When I go to the store I wear a mask. As weather34 said it's an act of solidarity. I'm smiling behind the mask and other mask wearers seem to be too (you can see it in their eyes even if you can't see their mouth). Kind of like here the angry, grumpy people invariably aren't wearing one.

Some other local observations, toilet paper is back on the shelf in very limited quantities, flour is available but no yeast yet, so far no sign of any meat shortage.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 11, 2020, 02:56:15 PM
Let's stay on subject here we are talking about cloth mask, not approved N95 or surgical mask. Show me the science? The only science available is they don't work and are dangerous with zero evidence they reduce transmission. Whether it reduces the transmission of the virus when speaking is also only theory and conjecture.

Everyone being required to wear cloth mask don't always have this luxury of washing and drying to kill the bacteria several times a day. I have a grandson and daughter both required to wear this crap on 8 to10-hour shifts and have told me just how unsanitary cloth masks are. For anyone to preach how this is the neighborly thing to do is being heartless and selfish and not thinking of those actually being forced to wear this garbage day in and out.
Yes. I definitely don't see how you can be boosting your immune system by restricting your flow of oxygen and possibly subjecting yourself to more bacteria no matter how often you may try to wash it.  It just isn't the way we were meant to breathe.  And it seems to me now is when we would want our immune system to be at its peak.

I live at high altitude, and while I have no respiratory problems, it does concern me if people started expecting everyone, the elderly, those with underlying health issues, or even unacclimated visitors to wear masks.  You think the mask police who would want to shame everyone not wearing a mask would take such things into account?  I don't see how people in warm climates could be at all comfortable as summer approaches either.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on May 11, 2020, 03:35:34 PM
I've been following the thread from the beginning and have enjoyed seeing reports of local conditions like Bunty's and Weather34's. Chief David's humor has been great and much needed. The, "I'm right and you're wrong" arguments not so much.

I'm 70 and retired so things haven't changed a lot. I used to go to the grocery store every day now I try to stretch it out to once a week or 10 days. It's been a challenge. When I go to the store I wear a mask. As weather34 said it's an act of solidarity. I'm smiling behind the mask and other mask wearers seem to be too (you can see it in their eyes even if you can't see their mouth). Kind of like here the angry, grumpy people invariably aren't wearing one.
Yeah, the smiling behind the mask I've witnessed.  I often tell my grandkids that I can tell their true smiles by seeing it in their eyes...not on their lips.  Same with most people...the eyes will tell you a lot about their feelings.  I agree, too, that that most of the scowling, worried-looking  people usually aren't wearing masks.  It's almost like they know they should be wearing a mask and are for some reason angry that they've been "caught" without one (though they knew very well when they left the house they weren't wearing one).  Go figure, eh? :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on May 11, 2020, 04:10:35 PM
The Real Reason to Wear a Mask (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/dont-wear-mask-yourself/610336/)
Models show that if 80 percent of people wear masks that are 60 percent effective, easily achievable with cloth, we can get to an effective R0 of less than one. That's enough to halt the spread of the disease. Many countries already have more than 80 percent of their population wearing masks in public, including Hong Kong, where most stores deny entry to unmasked customers, and the more than 30 countries that legally require masks in public spaces, such as Israel, Singapore, and the Czech Republic. Mask use in combination with physical distancing is even more powerful.

Doctors keep discovering new ways the coronavirus attacks the body (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/10/coronavirus-attacks-body-symptoms/?arc404=true)
In case you're not really the brilliant virologist that everyone thinks you are, here is a crash course on viruses in general and COVID-19 in particular.  This is a very good article written in layman terms (even I can understand most of it!).  Somewhere about the middle of the article is a short video that is very good in explaining what makes the COVID-19 virus such a bad one.  Highly recommended what ever your mask-orientation may be.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 11, 2020, 04:12:13 PM
Let's stay on subject here we are talking about cloth mask, not approved N95 or surgical mask. Show me the science? The only science available is they don't work and are dangerous with zero evidence they reduce transmission. Whether it reduces the transmission of the virus when speaking is also only theory and conjecture.

Everyone being required to wear cloth mask don't always have this luxury of washing and drying to kill the bacteria several times a day. I have a grandson and daughter both required to wear this crap on 8 to10-hour shifts and have told me just how unsanitary cloth masks are. For anyone to preach how this is the neighborly thing to do is being heartless and selfish and not thinking of those actually being forced to wear this garbage day in and out.
Yes. I definitely don't see how you can be boosting your immune system by restricting your flow of oxygen and possibly subjecting yourself to more bacteria no matter how often you may try to wash it.  It just isn't the way we were meant to breathe.  And it seems to me now is when we would want our immune system to be at its peak.

I live at high altitude, and while I have no respiratory problems, it does concern me if people started expecting everyone, the elderly, those with underlying health issues, or even unacclimated visitors to wear masks.  You think the mask police who would want to shame everyone not wearing a mask would take such things into account?  I don't see how people in warm climates could be at all comfortable as summer approaches either.

I've read where people have passed out from lack of oxygen right in the stores. 

For the record, I've protected my lungs for years wearing mask and do wear an approved N95 mask (Not Cloth) and goggles when needed. Working in the power industry wearing a mask comes second nature when dealing with coal and flyash dust.

Most around here don't wear anything even in crowded stores so I'm usually the odd person out when it comes to protection. 
But no one is required to wear a mask so I don't shame people for not wearing a mask I protect myself and stay out of their business. 


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 11, 2020, 04:27:51 PM
I agree, too, that that most of the scowling, worried-looking  people usually aren't wearing masks.  It's almost like they know they should be wearing a mask and are for some reason angry that they've been "caught" without one (though they knew very well when they left the house they weren't wearing one).  Go figure, eh? :roll:
I kind of find that hard to believe based on my experience.  But while we're getting into psychology I'll just point out that most people respond in kind to you.  So if you have a superior attitude and think that you "caught" the non-mask wearer, that would go a long way to explain your observation.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on May 11, 2020, 05:21:31 PM
I'll just point out that most people respond in kind to you. 
I totally agree. To quote Thackery "The world is good-natured to people who are good natured."
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 11, 2020, 06:53:58 PM
"caught" the non-mask wearer

I'm curious now, who is it?  #-o

As weather34 said this isn't something anyone wants, I would suggest everyone protect themselves properly, and like I've said several times don't forget the eyes. 
My old home town Page (pop 7.500) Arizona of 43 years now has 87 cases.
Located just off the Navajo Rez. where they are being hit really hard with 55 deaths in just one county.
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Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 11, 2020, 07:28:24 PM
Located just off the Navajo Rez. where they are being hit really hard with 55 deaths in just one county.
I hope they are doing thorough studies and find ways to prevent this in the future.

My county has had one confirmed case, long since recovered (a rate of 10.2 per 100,000 residents).  The next county over, but effectively separated by the mountain range has 180 cases with 55 recovered (458.5 per 100,000).  Out of 23 counties in the state, a full third of the cases are in that county with the Wind River Reservation.  Out of 7 deaths in the state, 4 were Northern Arapaho, 3 related.  I understand a lot of it has to do with a shortage of housing and other underlying health issues, but I'm not sure that would account for everything.  It's been years since I've been to the reservation so I'm not real familiar with life there, but I took a friend to the clinic there and remember thinking I was better off with the VA.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 11, 2020, 08:09:44 PM
Located just off the Navajo Rez. where they are being hit really hard with 55 deaths in just one county.
I hope they are doing thorough studies and find ways to prevent this in the future.

My county has had one confirmed case, long since recovered (a rate of 10.2 per 100,000 residents).  The next county over, but effectively separated by the mountain range has 180 cases with 55 recovered (458.5 per 100,000).  Out of 23 counties in the state, a full third of the cases are in that county with the Wind River Reservation.  Out of 7 deaths in the state, 4 were Northern Arapaho, 3 related.  I understand a lot of it has to do with a shortage of housing and other underlying health issues, but I'm not sure that would account for everything.  It's been years since I've been to the reservation so I'm not real familiar with life there, but I took a friend to the clinic there and remember thinking I was better off with the VA.

A friend I've kept contact with lost his mom and brother back in mid-March both lived in Page. One word according to this friend "diabetes". Runs rampant for some reason with some Native families. This friend also is diabetic we spoke about it a lot because it was hindering his ability to be a firefighter and ERT member.

Page is a big tourism hub for Lake Powell, Grand Canyon, Zion, Bryce Canyon, Monument Vally, and the Escalate Grand Staircase.  The brother was in his 40's worked at Safeway one of the places tour busses stopped and likely passed it on to the mother.  The son passed away first, 10 days later the mother.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 11, 2020, 08:41:11 PM
One word according to this friend "diabetes". Runs rampant for some reason with some Native families.
I guess that's why I should take it more seriously having been diagnosed with type-2 diabetes.  Kind of curious, as far as I know all my Native American blood comes from my mother's side, and I'm not aware of diabetes running in her family, or my father's for that matter.  I guess I just got lucky.  Or maybe I'm just paying for living on burgers and fries most of my life.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 11, 2020, 08:50:52 PM
One word according to this friend "diabetes". Runs rampant for some reason with some Native families.
Or maybe I'm just paying for living on burgers and fries most of my life.
As has the rest of the USA for the last 50 years.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on May 11, 2020, 09:10:37 PM
A friend I've kept contact with lost his mom and brother back in mid-March both lived in Page. One word according to this friend "diabetes". Runs rampant for some reason with some Native families.
So sad. I'm very sorry for your friend's loss.  :-(

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 11, 2020, 09:51:50 PM
A friend I've kept contact with lost his mom and brother back in mid-March both lived in Page. One word according to this friend "diabetes". Runs rampant for some reason with some Native families.
So sad. I'm very sorry for your friend's loss.  :-(
Thanks, yes it was tragic for the family. Very nice people too. These were some of the first known cases and it spread like a wildfire through the Nazarene Chruch they attended with many other members also succumbing to the virus.   
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on May 12, 2020, 02:08:09 PM
....wear this crap on 8 to10-hour shifts .....

I don't know about anybody else but I never expected the home made cloth would be appropriate for a shift at work. Short trips here and there with fresh mask.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on May 12, 2020, 03:17:28 PM
....wear this crap on 8 to10-hour shifts .....

I don't know about anybody else but I never expected the home made cloth would be appropriate for a shift at work. Short trips here and there with fresh mask.

I know two things you can make with a bra.  Cut them in half and you can have a mask and if you are very good 2 beanies with chin straps
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 12, 2020, 03:44:08 PM
....wear this crap on 8 to10-hour shifts .....

I don't know about anybody else but I never expected the home made cloth would be appropriate for a shift at work. Short trips here and there with fresh mask.

Its not appropriate. This came from left field. Appropriate mask are still unavailable for most. This is where most of my family resides along with 6 million others.

April 25, 2020: Harris County Judge Lina Hidalgo on Wednesday announced a mandatory face-covering order for Harris County, under which everyone over the age of 10 will be required to wear a simple cloth face covering while out in public places, unless they’re, for example, exercising. The order takes effect Monday and will last 30 days. Violations could be punishable by fines of up to $1,000.
Because of the order, all businesses are required to have employees also wear face coverings.  This order continues through the end of May.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 12, 2020, 03:49:31 PM
I don't know about anybody else but I never expected the home made cloth would be appropriate for a shift at work. Short trips here and there with fresh mask.
I don't know what the current supply of commercial masks is like now, but when masks first became a big thing people were making them because there was a huge shortage.  A lady who was involved on making cloth masks was talking about delivering a bunch to the grocery store, where I assume the employees were expected to wear them.  So like Randy said while I was posting this.


I know two things you can make with a bra.  Cut them in half and you can have a mask and if you are very good 2 beanies with chin straps

That's what I like to hear, people being productive and keeping themselves gainfully employed making things while they're stuck at home!   [tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on May 12, 2020, 04:46:34 PM
I don't know what the current supply of commercial masks is like now, but when masks first became a big thing people were making them because there was a huge shortage. 
My wife is a quilter and was part of a group organized by a local fabric store that made several thousand cloth masks at the request of the fire department. Later they did the same thing for the nearby air force base.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 12, 2020, 07:28:45 PM
My wife is a quilter and was part of a group organized by a local fabric store that made several thousand cloth masks at the request of the fire department. Later they did the same thing for the nearby air force base.
No matter how much I like wearing them, each one represents the concern and care that went into making them.  I look forward to when they're just souvenirs to remind us.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 12, 2020, 07:40:50 PM
My wife is a quilter and was part of a group organized by a local fabric store that made several thousand cloth masks at the request of the fire department. Later they did the same thing for the nearby air force base.
I look forward to when they're just souvenirs to remind us.
You can bet things such as this will eventually be in the Smithsonian to do exactly that.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on May 12, 2020, 07:41:32 PM
I know two things you can make with a bra.  Cut them in half and you can have a mask and if you are very good 2 beanies with chin straps
Thongs ??? - I really don't want to know  :-P
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 12, 2020, 08:09:21 PM
You can bet things such as this will eventually be in the Smithsonian to do exactly that.
I'll donate mine!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Garth Bock on May 12, 2020, 08:11:54 PM
I know two things you can make with a bra.  Cut them in half and you can have a mask and if you are very good 2 beanies with chin straps
Thongs ??? - I really don't want to know  :-P

And Elly Mae Clamppet used it for her sling shot... :grin:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Garth Bock on May 12, 2020, 08:18:00 PM
My wife is a quilter and was part of a group organized by a local fabric store that made several thousand cloth masks at the request of the fire department. Later they did the same thing for the nearby air force base.
I look forward to when they're just souvenirs to remind us.
You can bet things such as this will eventually be in the Smithsonian to do exactly that.

Remember the AIDS quilt ? When this is over I think everyone who lost a  loved one could donate a cloth mask or have one sewn into a large rememberance quilt..

( Then it could be dropped over China so they wouldn't see the incoming  ICBMS....just kidding. )
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 12, 2020, 08:18:51 PM
And Elly Mae Clamppet used it for her sling shot... :grin:

Did she kill two birds with one shot?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 12, 2020, 08:44:18 PM
And Elly Mae Clamppet used it for her sling shot... :grin:

Did she kill two birds with one shot?
Yep...two boobies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booby
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on May 12, 2020, 08:56:29 PM
One word according to this friend "diabetes". Runs rampant for some reason with some Native families.
I guess that's why I should take it more seriously having been diagnosed with type-2 diabetes.  Kind of curious, as far as I know all my Native American blood comes from my mother's side, and I'm not aware of diabetes running in her family, or my father's for that matter.  I guess I just got lucky.  Or maybe I'm just paying for living on burgers and fries most of my life.
    I too am type 2 diabetic, I take 1000mg metformin a day.   It runs on the mom's side. My maternal grandmother died from it before insulin was working, lost both legs.  I have two cousins as well and it goes on. However, consider this, it has to start somewhere with someone.  You need to take your blood sugar regularly, keep it less than 200 ,2 hours after meals.  or you can find yourself in deep do-do.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 12, 2020, 09:12:24 PM
  I too am type 2 diabetic, I take 1000mg metformin a day.   It runs on the mom's side. My maternal grandmother died from it before insulin was working, lost both legs.  I have two cousins as well and it goes on. However, consider this, it has to start somewhere with someone.  You need to take your blood sugar regularly, keep it less than 200 ,2 hours after meals.  or you can find yourself in deep do-do.
Thanks.  Along with meds, diet and exercise really helps me, especially during the summer when I work hard anyway, then I have to be careful not to get too low, but I've never come close to passing out or anything, my stomach lets me know before that happens.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 13, 2020, 11:22:10 PM
Yeah, phase 2 of reopening starts Friday the 15th:

Beginning Friday, Stillwater moves into the second phase of opening businesses and public facilities. Mayor Will Joyce signed an amendment to the city’s emergency declaration Wednesday allowing the few businesses still closed to resume operations while exercising precautions.

Stillwater will now allow all retail businesses, restaurants, bars, gyms, health clubs, entertainment venues, personal care businesses and churches to be open to the public.

Enhanced disinfection requirements are in place and social distancing standards limit the capacity of restaurant dining rooms and other gathering places to 50% or enough to allow six feet of space between tables.

The amendment also opens city-owned baseball, softball and soccer fields for team practices. Playground equipment, pavilions and splash pads located in city parks will remain closed for the time being.

Joyce cited Stillwater’s lack of new confirmed new cases of COVID-19 over the past three weeks and total number of infections compared to its population as part of his reasoning.

He credited the community for responding to prevent the disease’s spread.

“Stillwater ranks 9th in population statewide, but only 34th in terms of confirmed cases,” he wrote. “Why? It's way too early to say for sure, but quick action by OSU, the City, our local churches and businesses, and the residents of our community have certainly helped us avoid more widespread infection.”

For the same reason, Joyce warned the community against letting its guard down.

“It’s not time to declare victory or let down our guard,” he wrote. “There's no magic immunity here in Stillwater. There is still no vaccine nor proven treatment, and while testing has become more available, there are still backlogs and delays. Some communities in our state, big and small, are seeing increased new cases, and local outbreaks can grow very quickly. We must keep working together to protect each other.

“It has been good to see a mostly smooth Phase One of our recovery. We're not back to normal, but stores and restaurants are serving patrons again, and many shaggy heads (including my own) have been trimmed and styled. As far as I've seen, businesses are doing well at taking the proper precautions and keeping their customers safe.”

Stillwater will follow Gov. Kevin Stitt’s decision to move the state into Phase 2 of his Open Up and Recover Safely plan, Joyce said. Most of what Stillwater already has in place will not change on Friday.

The biggest changes are allowing bars to open with occupancy limits and allowing youth sports leagues to hold practices.

Gatherings of up to 50 people will be allowed under the revised declaration.

Joyce reminded people that increased activity around town means increased opportunity to transmit infection. He asked people to continue being careful and safe.

“We are easing back into social activities slowly, and we will continue to keep a close eye on the spread of coronavirus,” he wrote. “Each of us should embrace our responsibility to protect our neighbors: wear a face covering when around other people, avoid crowds and minimize personal contact, wash your hands frequently, cover your coughs and sneezes. You could be carrying the coronavirus right now without any symptoms. Do everything you can to keep from infecting someone else.”

Key provisions of the amended emergency declaration include:

Gatherings of 50 or more people are still prohibited.
Residents 65 or older and those with compromised immune systems must continue to shelter in place.
Athletic field in city parks are open for practices only.
Splash pads and shared facilities like pavilions and playgrounds remain closed.
Face coverings are still strongly encouraged for all people entering businesses.

Violating the emergency order can result in a penalty of $500 per violation, although police have been encouraged to educate and warn the public before taking enforcement action.

The amended emergency declaration expires at 11:59 p.m. on June 15 unless extended, rescinded, superseded or amended in writing.
https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/phase-2-reopening-looms/article_c12b9b28-9587-11ea-9f15-2bb4582d9623.html#utm_source=stwnewspress.com&utm_campaign=%2Fcovid-19%2Fphase-2-reopening-looms%2Farticle-c12b9b28-9587-11ea-9f15-2bb4582d9623.html%3Fmode%3Demail%26-dc%3D1589422261&utm_medium=auto%20alert%20email&utm_content=headline (https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/phase-2-reopening-looms/article_c12b9b28-9587-11ea-9f15-2bb4582d9623.html#utm_source=stwnewspress.com&utm_campaign=%2Fcovid-19%2Fphase-2-reopening-looms%2Farticle-c12b9b28-9587-11ea-9f15-2bb4582d9623.html%3Fmode%3Demail%26-dc%3D1589422261&utm_medium=auto%20alert%20email&utm_content=headline)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on May 14, 2020, 11:06:00 AM
  I too am type 2 diabetic, I take 1000mg metformin a day.   It runs on the mom's side. My maternal grandmother died from it before insulin was working, lost both legs.  I have two cousins as well and it goes on. However, consider this, it has to start somewhere with someone.  You need to take your blood sugar regularly, keep it less than 200 ,2 hours after meals.  or you can find yourself in deep do-do.
Thanks.  Along with meds, diet and exercise really helps me, especially during the summer when I work hard anyway, then I have to be careful not to get too low, but I've never come close to passing out or anything, my stomach lets me know before that happens.
  I bought some of those glucose tablets and keep them in my pants pocket for the times like that.  I have had but one time I needed it. Trust me they are not yummy but do the job.  I got them at the drug store back by the diabetic stuff.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on May 14, 2020, 11:12:23 AM
Iowa is opening up despite we are showing a steady increase in new cases and deaths.  COVID-19 Task Force: Des Moines is Hotbed for New Cases . Yet Gov Kimmie is opening it all up on Friday.   My prediction is that in 3 weeks we will increase at a higher rate than the 15.9% increase from yesterday.  In fact Gov reynolds said on camera "You can wear a mask if you want to, but you don't have to."   Wow.

Yeah, I would love to go out for a nice steak dinner, but not worth the risk.  we are home doing the best we can. thank the lord I don't have a lot of friends
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on May 14, 2020, 11:52:14 AM
I agree, too, that that most of the scowling, worried-looking  people usually aren't wearing masks.  It's almost like they know they should be wearing a mask and are for some reason angry that they've been "caught" without one (though they knew very well when they left the house they weren't wearing one).  Go figure, eh? :roll:
I kind of find that hard to believe based on my experience.  But while we're getting into psychology I'll just point out that most people respond in kind to you.  So if you have a superior attitude and think that you "caught" the non-mask wearer, that would go a long way to explain your observation.

I, in no way, act or acted superior to others as you've inferred.  It is evident that our experiences have been different, I was sharing mine.  Where wxforum was once a place of friendly debate on occasion I see that it is now a place for some members to point misguided fingers and promote their "you're wrong, I'm right, it's your fault" attitudes.  Respond as you will, but I'm through with this conversation.  Best wishes. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 14, 2020, 12:13:35 PM
For those of you that know me.....I got this from a Chiefs board.  Ocala will appreciate this

(https://i.imgur.com/nMJAg6o.png)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 14, 2020, 01:59:01 PM
I bought some of those glucose tablets and keep them in my pants pocket for the times like that.  I have had but one time I needed it. Trust me they are not yummy but do the job.  I got them at the drug store back by the diabetic stuff.
The little round individually wrapped peppermint candies are cheap, work, taste good, and you can find them anywhere.  :-) I also have a package of them in my trucks and any packs or bags I carry or travel with. Just take three of them.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 15, 2020, 03:54:45 AM
I, in no way, act or acted superior to others as you've inferred.  It is evident that our experiences have been different, I was sharing mine.  Where wxforum was once a place of friendly debate on occasion I see that it is now a place for some members to point misguided fingers and promote their "you're wrong, I'm right, it's your fault" attitudes.  Respond as you will, but I'm through with this conversation.  Best wishes.

I guess I missed the friendliness and smile behind your words when you wrote this:

I agree, too, that that most of the scowling, worried-looking  people usually aren't wearing masks.  It's almost like they know they should be wearing a mask and are for some reason angry that they've been "caught" without one (though they knew very well when they left the house they weren't wearing one).  Go figure, eh? :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 15, 2020, 09:08:06 AM
Yesterday-Most of the people and workers at Hyvee (grocery store) had masks on.
Still surprised the at a few that had it over their mouths and not noses.  #-o
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 15, 2020, 09:12:11 AM
We opened all restaurants but they can only be 1/2 capacity for a couple more weeks. Beauty salons and barbershops are open, very few are wearing mask, but I still do.

They just did a random 125 people test 2 days ago and found zero new cases.  =D&gt;

The shut down was done to stop hospitals from overflowing.  Most hospitals look like a ghost town. Who said this shutdown was to last until a cure was found?  Or is it just until November?  I think its the latter.

Those with the luxury of steady income like government workers school teachers or collect a pension and SS check ( I'm in this class) this is a piece of cake but not everyone has that luxury many businesses are at a financial breaking point of collapse if they can't reopen.

The last thing I'm going to do is complain about businesses reopening. I'll just protect myself most likely herd immunity will be the only way this ends anyway.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on May 15, 2020, 09:50:41 AM
Bad data => bad decisions.

https://wmbriggs.com/post/30833/

BTW, we still don't have data that's worth a darn!  They're still trying to make silk purses out of sows ears.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on May 15, 2020, 03:44:17 PM
I like XKCD's comic today

(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/common_cold.png)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on May 15, 2020, 05:10:06 PM
I made my weekly trip to the grocery store today for the essentials (beer and wine). Like last time about 2/3 of the people had masks but a few weren't wearing them correctly, not covering the nose or worse using them as chin guards.
There seemed to be plenty of TP but not a great selection.
Totally out of liquid dishwashing soap.
Plenty of flour and some yeast this week.
No noticeable meat shortage yet.
No shortage of milk or eggs.

I guess I missed the friendliness and smile behind your words...
That's the problem with forums and why threads sometimes go off the rails. You can't see the smile, or the twinkle in the eye, or hear the tone of voice.

Off topic but your user name reminded of a backcountry trip I did years ago (before I became elderly) in the Wind River Range. Here is a poor scan of one of my 35mm slides. That's Clark lake in the lower background, behind the skier, where we camped the previous night.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-geo-images/e0e50b5a-8bd3-4def-98ff-a21de52f5a19_l.jpg) (https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-geo-images/e0e50b5a-8bd3-4def-98ff-a21de52f5a19.jpg)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on May 16, 2020, 01:02:20 AM
I made my weekly trip to the grocery store today for the essentials (beer and wine). Like last time about 2/3 of the people had masks but a few weren't wearing them correctly, not covering the nose or worse using them as chin guards.
There seemed to be plenty of TP but not a great selection.
Totally out of liquid dishwashing soap.
Plenty of flour and some yeast this week.
No noticeable meat shortage yet.
No shortage of milk or eggs.
I've go to the store usually once every week or two, my buying habits haven't changed as I'm always stocked up on essentials and could go weeks/months, who knows how long if I had to.  I guess I'm kind of a survivalist at heart to begin with.  I haven't even had to buy TP, dishwashing soap, or anything since this all started, but it looked like the store here is stocked about the same as yours.  No shortages of anything I need yet. 

I think most of the employees wore masks, all correctly as far as I noticed, and about none of the shoppers.  But then I go in late at night when I am pretty much the only shopper.  But I think it was pretty much the same at the farm and ranch store today where basically only the employees were wearing masks.  But people do pretty much seem to keep their distance as requested.  (Which reminds me, I haven't checked to see if deodorant is in stock since the panic started either.)  I just think masks are not a big thing around here for good or bad.  Not to minimize it, but it all seems like kind of a big experiment to me as to what really works and where.  I'm not real social or live right on top of my neighbors or anything to begin with.



Off topic but your user name reminded of a backcountry trip I did years ago (before I became elderly) in the Wind River Range. Here is a poor scan of one of my 35mm slides. That's Clark lake in the lower background, behind the skier, where we camped the previous night.
[tup] Looks like you came a good time of the year, around the beginning of July?  :lol:  Beautiful country.  I don't think I've been to Clark Lake, though it's not far from where I've been cutting firewood.  Do you remember if you took the Highline Trail or came from New Fork Lake?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on May 16, 2020, 03:22:50 PM
Not to minimize it, but it all seems like kind of a big experiment to me as to what really works and where.  I'm not real social or live right on top of my neighbors or anything to begin with.
I agree. Your area hasn't been hit nearly as hard as mine so it make sense that people are less concerned. The population density is way less too which makes a big difference.

[tup] Looks like you came a good time of the year, around the beginning of July?  :lol:  Beautiful country.  I don't think I've been to Clark Lake, though it's not far from where I've been cutting firewood.  Do you remember if you took the Highline Trail or came from New Fork Lake?
We did the trip in early March, circa 1985. No trails that I ever saw, all cross country. We started from the ski area outside Pinedale and finished at New Fork Lake (car shuttle back). In order we camped, near Photographers point, Island Lakes (2 nights with a side trip to Titcomb lakes valley), Peak Lake, Clark Lake, and near New Fork Park.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 16, 2020, 05:38:03 PM
Stores looked more stocked this week.

Now for more humor. Apologies in advance.

(https://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/05/Screen-Shot-2020-05-14-at-8.24.46-PM.png?resize=600%2C575&ssl=1)

(https://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/05/IMG_2002.jpeg?resize=467%2C600&ssl=1)

(https://i2.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/05/lessons-1.jpg?resize=427%2C600&ssl=1)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/97347194_1480497982150201_8164623501303480320_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=d-0m7gE_WSsAX83a9r6&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=d78a509043b51038072507a0ca8d48b4&oe=5EE5D3B9)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 16, 2020, 05:52:54 PM
It is raining out. So I am inside.......

(https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=120174&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1585931497)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200402/873e7bde4390fb0490ace963cc03e4b8.jpg)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 16, 2020, 05:56:50 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200330/0bb9576bf02513eaf29720bff8201273.jpg)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 16, 2020, 06:03:56 PM
Stores looked more stocked this week.
Now the latest thing I can't find is dishwasher detergent. :roll: Guess I'll hafta remember how to do it the ole' fashion way.

PS: Bugs was the best... 8-)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: alanb on May 16, 2020, 07:09:30 PM
Dentist offices have reopened for non-emergency appointments here. I got a e-mail from my dentist wanting to reschedule the 6 month checkup that was cancelled a few weeks ago. I know my dentist is professional and will do all the correct recommendations to protect staff and patients. That said, I am not particularly comfortable about having someone standing over me working in my mouth at this time, so I think I will pass for the time being.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DRoberts on May 16, 2020, 10:48:53 PM
 :grin: chief-david
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on May 17, 2020, 06:05:05 PM
Stores looked more stocked this week.
Now the latest thing I can't find is dishwasher detergent. :roll: Guess I'll hafta remember how to do it the ole' fashion way.

PS: Bugs was the best... 8-)
My store had some dishwasher detergent but was out of a few brands. My wife buys it (and TP and paper towels) at Costco. They limit quantities but one of their packages is huge and lasts us for months so it isn't a big deal.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 17, 2020, 06:11:41 PM
Stores looked more stocked this week.
Now the latest thing I can't find is dishwasher detergent. :roll: Guess I'll hafta remember how to do it the ole' fashion way.

PS: Bugs was the best... 8-)
My store had some dishwasher detergent but was out of a few brands. My wife buys it (and TP and paper towels) at Costco. They limit quantities but one of their packages is huge and lasts us for months so it isn't a big deal.
Woohoo! Found detergent AND TP today!  \:D/
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 17, 2020, 06:34:43 PM
(https://twitter.com/jswilliams1962/status/1262066409485590538)

(https://twitter.com/JenTusch/status/1262069472770359299[img])[/img]
No workie..
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 17, 2020, 06:35:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYPFdr-XgAAIPqH?format=png&name=medium)


Les Nesman started social distancing.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYPCtZsWsAIwido?format=jpg&name=medium)



Having a hard time pasting tweets.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 17, 2020, 07:06:33 PM
Stillwater was a bustling this weekend.  It was the first weekend since the shutdown both restaurants and bars were open.  Shutdown relief was needed. I went to one of my favorite restaurants for dinner, Palomino's a Mexican.  It wasn't much of a surprise that it would be a different experience, due to heightened sanitation precautions.  In the main dining area, chairs were turned upside down on some tables for distancing.  Elsewhere, booths were partitioned off by white plastic panels.  The menu was printed in black and white on both sides of a sheet of paper.  It was far from the colorful plastic embossed menus.  Instead of salt and paper shakers, it was paper packets.  Eating utensils were plastic.  Wait staff were all masked except for the guy who brought out my selection, the Chicken Skillet from the kitchen.    Food was good.  My other favorite restaurant, Red Lobster, still isn't open.  I miss their Salmon New Orleans and biscuits.

Fortunately, positive cases in Stillwater remain at 22 after around 3 weeks.  All have recovered.  Hopefully, no spikes on the way to phase 3 of the reopening to start June 1.  Stillwater looks to have the least lively summer ever.   OSU summer classes will be online, meaning around 6000 students won't be in town.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on May 17, 2020, 07:08:38 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYPFdr-XgAAIPqH?format=png&name=medium)
Les Nesman started social distancing.
Having a hard time pasting tweets.
Perhaps I can help...

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTlZ3Is1N0O5oQsZiiulMo3jDYZrLYYC056KqDWC8jEGWidRMvc&usqp=CAU
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on May 17, 2020, 09:27:36 PM
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] It doesn't work ...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 20, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
(https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/05/Screen-Shot-2020-05-17-at-1.10.20-PM.png?resize=600%2C566&ssl=1)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 20, 2020, 02:49:57 PM
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: AWL on May 21, 2020, 12:16:31 PM
Part two of Covid-19 has began....wife went to the local store that has a meat market. Three ~2 pound packs of hamburger meat. A little over 6lbs. And the grand total was $60 and some change  :shock:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on May 21, 2020, 12:41:41 PM
That stinks. The great thing about living in cattle country, I just got back from the Valentine meat locker they do all there own butchering and packaging all USDA inspected and prices haven't budged.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on May 21, 2020, 02:03:28 PM
Part two of Covid-19 has began....wife went to the local store that has a meat market. Three ~2 pound packs of hamburger meat. A little over 6lbs. And the grand total was $60 and some change  :shock:
Wow, I haven't seen that here yet, 85% lean ground meat is on sale for $3 a pound right now.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on May 21, 2020, 02:37:37 PM
this is epidemiology 101 science, when you are on the start of a pandemic exponential curve:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/study-finds-earlier-coronavirus-restrictions-us-saved-36k/story?id=70808611&cid=clicksource_4380645_4_three_posts_card_image
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 21, 2020, 10:30:26 PM
(http://ace.mu.nu/archives/Road%20Runner.jpg)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 23, 2020, 12:54:19 PM
(https://i2.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/05/Screen-Shot-2020-05-22-at-1.36.13-PM.png?resize=600%2C428&ssl=1)

(https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/05/Screen-Shot-2020-05-22-at-7.52.19-PM.png?resize=461%2C600&ssl=1)

(https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/05/Screen-Shot-2020-05-22-at-10.19.30-PM.png?resize=600%2C429&ssl=1)

(https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/05/Screen-Shot-2020-05-21-at-10.24.39-AM.png?resize=600%2C574&ssl=1)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on May 23, 2020, 02:47:59 PM
A little help, some cheese will help too.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 23, 2020, 08:08:47 PM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/100659303_3066285310096650_1105170376037498880_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8024bb&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=7VFyrDocwR8AX_QN_tm&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&_nc_tp=14&oh=8115c09150fa9737c1b3ba89977dae6d&oe=5EEE0C88)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 28, 2020, 02:40:32 PM
Oh, happy day, Red Lobster and New China Super Buffet finally reopened in my town Tuesday.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ConligWX on May 28, 2020, 05:15:59 PM
So here are a few for you guys....

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ConligWX on May 28, 2020, 05:18:46 PM
and a few more


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on May 29, 2020, 10:36:55 AM
Notice the cop in the picture isn't wearing the mask correctly. It goes over the nose as well.  What does he think that the droplets from the angry lady only go to the mouth??
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: AWL on May 29, 2020, 11:56:40 AM
Notice the cop in the picture isn't wearing the mask correctly. It goes over the nose as well.  What does he think that the droplets from the angry lady only go to the mouth??


Would think the mask would only help the person wearing it from spreading the droplets out as far? As for helping you from breathing in the virus it's kinda like trying to catch a horse-fly with a barb wire fence....
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 29, 2020, 01:30:11 PM

Would think the mask would only help the person wearing it from spreading the droplets out as far? As for helping you from breathing in the virus it's kinda like trying to catch a horse-fly with a barb wire fence....

I still think wearing a mask is better than nothing.  I was sure glad I had one on when a guy sneezed fairly near me while I was in Wal-Mart the other day.   
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 29, 2020, 09:28:15 PM
I am not going to make this political.....I am under a curfew.

Shit is real here. I have no idea what is going to happen. It is like the Purge. Most of the Metro area is under curfew

A shopping center close by....

(https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/101066047_10219966921701607_9161394477657489408_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_oc=AQmXP62PiQJPGUOQ8BLz0zgzMIQNM226mrlD41PKZ-pqLns8LIU7hpzsrczi9gd-EInrmH9qaVQiJMUI1ceoOCc7&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=971d97f89f0ed320b159184e4a0c11a1&oe=5EF72171)

I will be up all night tonight.



Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 30, 2020, 01:12:06 AM
Sorry about the unfortunate situation.  Keep safe in more ways than one.  Maybe time for you to move to greener and more peaceful pastures.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on May 30, 2020, 01:14:10 AM
Today was my weekly shopping day again. Things are getting back to normal shortage wise. Plenty of TP, no meat shortage and even yeast is back in stock. They still didn't have my favorite brand of crunchy peanut butter but if I was desperate there's lots of other brands.

Mask wise nothing much has changed. About 3/4 of the customers have them, all the employees have face protection, either a mask or in a few cases a full face visor. Like last time a few aren't wearing them properly.

We've had a big up tick in cases over the last week going from 3 or 4 new cases a day, to 15 - 25 a day. "They" say this is because of an outbreak at a business that's under control and not community spreading.

I'm hoping to get a good nights sleep so I'm fully rested and ready for another full day of washing hands and looking out the window.  :-)

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on May 30, 2020, 01:26:02 AM
Interesting.  Thanks to Oklahoma reopening faster than other states means more things going on at the county fairgrounds this summer and maybe later when the county fair starts in late August.  If there is a cat show, I'm going.

"Noting only one active COVID-19 virus case in Payne County, Chris Reding, Payne County Commissioner for District 2, recommended moving to Phase 3 of Governor Kevin Stitt’s plan to open Oklahoma’s economy earlier than the Governor’s June 1 goal.

During Thursday’s end of the month meeting of the Payne County Board of Commissioners, all three commissioners voted in favor of moving ahead to Phase 3.

Reding told the News Press that the main reason for moving ahead as early as possible was to give the Payne County Expo Center a head start on booking events.

Expo Center manager Colin Campbell has been receiving a lot of phone calls from event organizers who had scheduled in other areas and other states that are not opening up yet, Reding said.

He sees an opportunity for the county to benefit from their need to find a new venue.

The move to Phase 3 doesn’t affect the Payne County Administrations building and road district offices, which have already opened to the public.

County courthouses are getting back to business, although social distancing requirements remain in place and trials have been rescheduled for after July 31, based on an order from the Oklahoma Supreme Court.

Phase 3 provides that employers can resume unrestricted staffing of worksites and summer camps for churches and schools can open.

A health care facility may allow one patient representative to accompany a patient on a health care visit but visits to senior care facilities are still prohibited.

Phase 1 of Stitt’s plan allowed dining, entertainment, movie theaters and sporting venues to open on May 1, using Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommended social distancing and sanitation protocols.

The CDC has updated considerations for restaurants and bars that recommend changing restaurant and bar layouts to ensure that all customer parties remain at least 6 feet apart.

Reding said the county’s move to Phase 3 allows bars and restaurants that aren’t located within a city’s corporate limits to operate.

“Let’s get this county back to work and back to business,” he said."

https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/payne-county-commission-approves-early-phase-3-re-opening/article_7c34fde1-81b0-551a-8671-6ee309d2d64e.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/payne-county-commission-approves-early-phase-3-re-opening/article_7c34fde1-81b0-551a-8671-6ee309d2d64e.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Waimarie on May 30, 2020, 01:43:34 AM
Hi  New Zealand here.  You may have seen us mentioned from time to time on the news.

As of today, we have just 1 active case.  Regretably a total of 22 people died.  We are still in a limited movement regime which is due to be reviewed next week.  Looks like our Government (in particular, PM Jacinda Ardern) got it right.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on May 30, 2020, 09:12:06 AM
You be careful up there, Chief.  Very careful.

I am not going to make this political.....I am under a curfew.

Shit is real here. I have no idea what is going to happen. It is like the Purge. Most of the Metro area is under curfew

A shopping center close by....

(https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/101066047_10219966921701607_9161394477657489408_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_oc=AQmXP62PiQJPGUOQ8BLz0zgzMIQNM226mrlD41PKZ-pqLns8LIU7hpzsrczi9gd-EInrmH9qaVQiJMUI1ceoOCc7&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=971d97f89f0ed320b159184e4a0c11a1&oe=5EF72171)

I will be up all night tonight.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on May 30, 2020, 09:41:48 AM
good here this morning. No issues.
I do say a thank you prayer that I do not live in MPLS proper. I have been telling co-workers for years to get out.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on June 12, 2020, 02:42:23 PM
Cases are spiking in Stillwater!  The Hideaway, a popular pizza place closed, due to a worker testing positive.  I was sure glad I was properly wearing a mask while getting a haircut yesterday.  The barber had a mask on but wasn't over the nose.   A message from the mayor:

LOCAL COVID UPDATE (June 12)
Monday, June 8: 3 new cases
Tuesday, June 9: 1 new case
Wednesday, June 10: 3 new cases
Thursday, June 11: 6 new cases
Friday, June 12: 12 new cases

Total for the last 5 days: 25 new COVID cases in Stillwater.
This week alone, Stillwater has more new COVID cases than we had in March, April and May, combined. The second wave is here, and it's spreading faster than the first.

This is very concerning, and clearly a factor of more residents back in Stillwater and more personal interaction among residents. Many, if not most, of these new cases are among young adults in our community. While this new outbreak has not resulted in substantial hospitalizations, I am worried that it is just a matter of time before these cases reach our more vulnerable populations.

YOU MUST DO YOUR PART TO KEEP OUR COMMUNITY SAFE. Even if you are young and healthy, you can catch COVID and you can spread COVID. You can give the disease to someone less resilient than you, and they can get very sick or even die.

Our local taskforce is meeting today to discuss the situation and potential responses. No matter what, each person in Stillwater needs to recognize the serious nature of this disease and choose to protect themselves and their neighbors by following CDC and state health guidelines.  Wear a mask in public. Avoid crowded areas. Wash your hands frequently. Keep your distance from other people.
Love your neighbor. Stop the spread.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on June 13, 2020, 04:13:28 PM
Eskimo Joe's, world wide famous for its cute T-shirt design, pictured, has elected not to close.  Not one of my top favorites, so glad I haven't been there.   As of Saturday, Stillwater positive cases increased by 22 in one day.  That's nearly the same number that had peaked out for the pandemic and settled there for around 6 weeks before this spike. 

Message from Eskimo Joe's:

"As you are likely aware, Oklahoma has incurred a spike in positive COVID-19 cases. Today we were notified that one of our employees at Eskimo Joe's has tested positive for the virus.

In consultation with the Payne County Health Department, we will continue to execute our extensive sanitation and safety protocols that follow CDC recommendations for restaurant operations. If you have concerns about your recent visit to any restaurant, please contact your local health department for guidance.

We are honored with every opportunity to serve our valued guests and we thank you for your continued support."

(http://okie.world/photos/ek.jpg)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on June 14, 2020, 05:14:25 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/102402251_158402809025909_1680249735269906859_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQn963FEDjlRx5JL7AIQtxaAIykX8HTMI265ZysB5m5BQrEuAuvQuG5LWLDeqhn7vsw&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=6d8f82723717aa1a10cb228e2e556ef2&oe=5F0D00D9)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on June 14, 2020, 05:15:06 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/103906317_3038077429612329_4800949617763418203_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQk62ntfFt-ffcTGut6yceP8XvU_GdHC7vY-uX3VP7-cmKHR77snzZou8tfzt8ShNr8&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=2bd405272add15a01a418f5492d42582&oe=5F0DDBFD)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on June 14, 2020, 07:13:56 PM
Well you got the riots, we got the covid.  Us and Missouri are the idiot states.  Everything is open from swimming pools, bars, casinos,,  you name it.  The numbers are fudged I am certain what is being released.    Any special ed teacher can see fudged data a mile away.  People are beginning to figure it out.  In any case, we are still isolating.

Talking with a tear in our eyes, wanting to go to Dairy Queen and get a Mr. Misty so bad and yet not take the risk of some nerd in the back scooping ice with his unwashed fetid hands into the ice bucket to go to the ice crusher.  So we are home,   Wife is reading , I am going nuts.  But we are trying to stay well. Temptation is there, but so is the need not to die.

72 with anemia, asthma, high blood pressure a good choice of a victim here.  No,  just going to stay home, and fester.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: 92merc on June 15, 2020, 10:00:19 AM
I really haven't been watching this thread, but here's my 2020 story.

I got sent home from work end of March.  I work in IT and I can do "most" of my job from home.  Would rather be in the office, but given the state of things, I'll make do.

My wife works from home in the medical field.  Two weeks into me being at home, she got laid off due to COVID.  Her job saw a major decrease in case load and she was let go.

Two weeks later, my wife is going crazy being stuck at home.  She's a busy body and needs something to do.  Gets a call from her doctor.  Abnormality in her mammogram.  Long story short, she has breast cancer at 50.  So we're just at the beginning of all that crap.  Chemo, surgery, radiation, they whole nine yards.  Luckily I have good insurance through my work, and my wife has the time to focus on anything that comes up.

But when you think it can't get any worse, it can.  So be happy with what you have.  Stay safe out there my friends!...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: PaulMy on June 15, 2020, 11:11:05 AM
merc, so sorry to hear that.  While you can't help but feel anxiety, etc. etc., I just want to say that we went through the same type of doctor call a number of years ago and my wife had all 9 yards of chemo, surgery, etc. and 15 years later she is as good as ever.


Both of you and family keep up your spirits and prioritize as needed.


Thinking and praying for you,
Paul
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on June 16, 2020, 08:29:52 AM
That's tough to hear merc. Hopefully it was caught early.
My sister got it and beat it! Your wife has some tough times ahead but ya'll will get through it.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on June 16, 2020, 01:39:30 PM
Cases are still spiking in Stillwater.  Friday went from 72 to 116 on Tuesday. Around 30 businesses report they have at least one employee with the virus.   Some have closed.  Others elect to remain open.   Even the tag agency is closed.  It expects to reopen on Thursday.   Locally and statewide, it's mainly affected the age group that doesn't get as severely sickened, 18-35, which hopefully explains why the hospitalizations and deaths aren't spiking as well.  I certainly won't be eating out again until things settle down considerably. 

Stillwater City Council weighs options as COVID-19 infections rise

The Stillwater City Council is pondering what it should do in light of the city’s recent dramatic growth in COVID-19 cases. Stillwater has seen a substantial increase since June 2, Mayor Will Joyce told the other city councilors Monday.

It led to a discussion about the need for increased communication with residents to provide reassurance and information on testing options and the need for a unified message from the City of Stillwater, Oklahoma State University, Stillwater Medical and the Payne County Health Department.

The current emergency order moving Stillwater into Phase III of the state’s Open Up and Recover Safely plan expires June 30, but City Attorney John Dorman has another emergency order ready to go that would roll back some Phase III provisions to protect the public health, the mayor said.

The specific provisions were not discussed at the meeting and the order has yet to be signed.

“There are so many moving targets,” Joyce said.

The other question the councilors are considering is: What has to happen to justify taking that action?

One of the criteria suggested was the number of cases requiring in-patient treatment.

Councilor John Wedlake suggested the council have a low threshold while monitoring that measure.

It’s hard to calculate the estimated exponential growth as the disease spreads through the community, Wedlake said. Based on numbers from the densely populated East and West coasts, COVID-19 has had a 2-3% death rate while the middle of the country was largely spared until now.

At one time, Stillwater Medical Center had the capacity to care for 13 people on ventilators but Wedlake said that may not be an accurate number anymore.

“None of us has a magic formula on when we worry,” Joyce said. “We’re not there, we haven’t been there.”

He said it’s really about maintaining the hospital’s capacity to treat critical care patients while allowing other patients to get care. The hospital has an incident command team that meets daily to monitor not only what is happening is Stillwater but throughout its service area.

Even under the current order, sheltering in place is still strongly recommended for anyone at higher risk from COVID-19, particularly people over age 65 and those with underlying health conditions.

The councilors all agreed that following the well-established social distancing guidelines and wearing face coverings in public will help minimize the risk of transmission, making it easier to keep things open but that message doesn’t seem to be getting through to all the people who need to hear it.

“If we can’t do that, we are going to end up places we don’t want to be in terms of limits on where we can go and what we can do,” Joyce said.

https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/city-council-weighs-options-as-covid-19-infections-rise/article_136478a3-5539-5a46-945d-4939a7b80e04.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/city-council-weighs-options-as-covid-19-infections-rise/article_136478a3-5539-5a46-945d-4939a7b80e04.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: METARMan on June 16, 2020, 04:42:06 PM
I believe the CDC most recent estimate for the COVID-19 death rate (iFR) is less than 0.3%.  That estimate is from about a month ago, and since then while cases in many places in the United States have increased the deaths attributed to COVID have decreased or remained constant.  For whatever reason perhaps the iFR is even less than the previous CDC estimate from just a month ago.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

There was also news today that it's likely basic and inexpensive corticosteroids are effective at reducing COVID death in hospitalized patients. 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/16/major-study-finds-common-steroid-reduces-deaths-among-patients-with-severe-covid-19/

A lot has been learned about COVID and it may be a lot less deadly than feared.  Anyway, the reason I point out these things is because I've spent a significant time of my life being a hypochondriac.  COViD is something to be concerned about AND some people seem to have become irrationally scared.  There is good data now about who is at risk and who isn't, I hate to see people being fearful when a very small amount are currently severely effected by the illness. 

The mental health of people in the NE of the United States has really declined, and I'm concerned it may take a long time for the anxiety to decline -- even though in some areas the new deaths are close to zero.

I'm in my 40s and had COViD in March as did my spouse.  It was a few weeks of on and off mild chest burning, but it was so mild I wouldn't even describe it as significant as a cold.  I work(ed) for a large company (international airline) and a few coworkers got more ill than I, but they all survived.  And this was in March/April.  The virus persists, but medical treatment and fatality rates have gotten much better than what happened in NY and NJ earlier in the year -- thank goodness.

I hope OK and other areas make a quick recovery.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on June 17, 2020, 04:02:56 AM
Update From Stillwater Mayor:

LOCAL COVID UPDATE (June 16)
Stillwater now has 94 new cases of COVID-19 since June 1. That number represents a 425% increase over our total infections prior to June 1. The state has also seen record increases in new cases. Why are our local numbers going up so quickly? There are several factors at play.

(1) We are testing more. Local testing has increased significantly this month, including among asymptomatic people.
(2) Our population has increased. Many students that did not return to Stillwater after Spring Break have come back to town with jobs available, new leases starting, and more stuff to do.
(3) Everything is open. Under Phase 3 of the state guidelines, all businesses are open, and while the state still recommends extra safety precautions, they are not being universally applied.
(4) WE ARE NOT FOLLOWING SOCIAL DISTANCING GUIDELINES! Too many people are gathering in large groups, not wearing masks, and not following health department guidelines.

The majority of these cases are in people 20-27 years of age. We have not seen new hospitalizations along with this spike in positive tests, yet. At this point, in discussing the situation with PCHD, SMC, Payne County, OSU, and City staff, we are working to step up education and communication around safety precautions, rather than re-instituting business and personal restrictions. That may change as we continue to evaluate the situation daily. 
We've done a great job locally up to this point, and we are not going to eradicate coronavirus through social distancing alone. There will be cases in our community going forward, so we all need to commit to keeping the virus in check.
 
If we work together, care for our neighbors, and take the recommended precautions, we can keep our community safe and healthy. Please wear a mask in public, stay home as much as possible, avoid crowds, and minimize personal contact.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on June 17, 2020, 10:35:49 AM
The emperor has no clothes.   Well that is how in Iowa it is being presented.  The data doesn't match up with the facts. Kim The Reaper, has opened up the entire state. Yeah the state fair she is pissed, didn't see that coming that people would figure a million people in close contact with no masks might have a few sickies in them, so the canceled it this year.

She has been peeing on our boots and saying it is raining, that is about the number of cases. She starts her thing,when it moves her, that  the number of people tested, number negative and lets it end there.

Yet people are getting sick in the 0-50 range at over 50% of the cases does bother her.  Rather than have the weekly report she ran off to be with Pence in Mason City.    As far as her and her political party, the virus is a hoax, it is over, time to (as Redd said in Shawshank Redemption ," Time to start living or start dying"  Maybe she thinks that if more people die, it will open places for others to live , and think of the job possiblities.

She constantly says, " Iowans will do the right thing. and old people need to stay home."
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on June 18, 2020, 12:46:29 AM
I haven't heard of any fairs canceled in Oklahoma yet. 

Stillwater mayor further discusses the heightened local virus crisis.  Total cases as of Wednesday at 130:

"In what feels like the snap of a finger, Stillwater’s coronavirus case total has spiked to unimaginable levels.

After holding steady with 22 total cases from the beginning of this pandemic until June 7, the total now stands at a whopping 130 before Oklahoma State University students return.

And this may only be the beginning.

“We’re focusing, right now, on ramping up our communication around the concern and around the social distancing protocols,” Stillwater Mayor Will Joyce told the Stillwater News Press. “And just making sure that people understand that this disease is still spreading in Stillwater.”

Much of the city has been living in a lax state of mind with the low case count, but Joyce said he isn’t too surprised by the rise.

With testing ramped up, some students returning to Stillwater for jobs and all businesses now open, a spike was anticipated.

What does surprise Joyce – and others – is the speed in which these cases have been compiled.

“We are very concerned at the rapid increase of positive COVID-19 cases, especially in the young adult population,” said Necia Kimber, Stillwater Medical Center Director of Infection Prevention and Control. “Since Oklahoma has moved forward to Phase II on May 15 and Phase III on June 1, the amount of family and social gatherings/activities has significantly increased.”

And that’s the thing.

While a majority of the cases came from young adults in the 20-27 age range, Joyce said it’s difficult to pinpoint exactly where the resurgence began.

But that uncertainty brings the social distancing guidelines back to the forefront of the discussion, which Joyce had already been preaching for these past several months – even when there were zero active cases.

“It’s just as crucial as it’s always been,” Joyce said. “I think we’re certainly seeing a situation where people aren’t focusing on that quite as much. Even when we were at zero active cases, that number is always a little bit misleading because so many, even of these new cases, are asymptomatic.”

People typically aren’t tested unless they’re in contact with somebody who has it. Or in the case of the OSU football players returning to campus, they had to be tested because of procedure.

The team found three asymptomatic cases, but it begs the question: how many more people in Stillwater are in the same boat?

It’s not practical or even possible to test the entire population every day, so preventative measures are needed.

“Our stance on taking proper precautions to prevent the spread has not changed,” Kimber said. “Wearing a mask and social distancing is the best way to contain this virus if you must be out in the community. Masks are about protecting others, and they work best if both parties have them on. Remember that the virus is still contagious even if the infected person does not have symptoms.”

These guidelines might be getting tiresome, but would anyone really want to take a step back?

“I asked our city attorney to be ready with a potential return to Phase II declaration if/when we feel like that’s a necessary thing to do,” Joyce said. “I want to avoid those steps back, if at all possible. We got to figure out a way to deal with this on an ongoing basis. We’re ready to do that if we see concern around hospitalizations and healthcare stress related to the cases we’re seeing in Stillwater.”

It’s a possibility, but Joyce hopes the spread of the virus will cut down with social distancing guidelines.

And that’s the backbone of the whole thing. Stillwater needs to get to a safe plateau so Oklahoma State University can return in the fall. Which would then rejuvenate stores, restaurants, hotels, etc. In turn, restimulating the economy.

It’s like a domino effect. But with the events of the past week, questions began to swirl around if OSU opening is feasible."

https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/this-disease-is-still-spreading-in-stillwater-mayor-joyce-discusses-recent-spike-of-coronavirus-cases/article_caba8226-df0c-56c4-97e9-7e71d1a7b28e.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/this-disease-is-still-spreading-in-stillwater-mayor-joyce-discusses-recent-spike-of-coronavirus-cases/article_caba8226-df0c-56c4-97e9-7e71d1a7b28e.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on June 18, 2020, 01:26:17 PM
Talk about fear and mental decline! Aardvark is almost coherent enough to be a speech writer for Joe Biden, who also seems to be suffering the same Wuhan Virus mental side effects.  :lol:

The emperor has no clothes.   Well that is how in Iowa it is being presented.  The data doesn't match up with the facts. Kim The Reaper, has opened up the entire state. Yeah the state fair she is pissed, didn't see that coming that people would figure a million people in close contact with no masks might have a few sickies in them, so the canceled it this year.

She has been peeing on our boots and saying it is raining, that is about the number of cases. She starts her thing,when it moves her, that  the number of people tested, number negative and lets it end there.

Yet people are getting sick in the 0-50 range at over 50% of the cases does bother her.  Rather than have the weekly report she ran off to be with Pence in Mason City.    As far as her and her political party, the virus is a hoax, it is over, time to (as Redd said in Shawshank Redemption ," Time to start living or start dying"  Maybe she thinks that if more people die, it will open places for others to live , and think of the job possiblities.

She constantly says, " Iowans will do the right thing. and old people need to stay home."
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on June 18, 2020, 01:35:19 PM
She constantly says, " Iowans will do the right thing. and old people need to stay home."
Of course people won't do what's right.  Among other things that's the effect of years of mindless liberalism being taught in public schools.

That's why we don't need leaders any longer, but mother figures.  We should look to NZ as an example.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on June 18, 2020, 02:04:21 PM
As far as her and her political party, the virus is a hoax,
By the way, lies and things like this taken out of context get tiresome, but I realize that misinformation is all some have on their side.

Here is what Snopes, not exactly a right wing site, says:
Quote
Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax.
He was talking about the falsehoods others were saying about the virus and his response to it.  Obviously those falsehoods continue.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on June 19, 2020, 12:38:49 AM
Come on guys... Here is a quote from the OP:

Quote
Not meant to be a political thread.

Let's take our personal, political, opinions somewhere else. I have mine too but this isn't the place.

I've enjoyed reading Bunty's updates and other's first hand experiences and I'd hate to see the thread get shut down because some want to use it as a sounding board for their political beliefs.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on June 19, 2020, 12:47:28 AM
WOW, Oklahoma spiked to 450 new positive cases on Thursday for an all time record increase.   Tulsa County set another daily record for new COVID-19 positives with 120.  Stillwater added on 23 new cases.  Staff members at the Oklahoma Dept. of Health are said to be overwhelmed by contact tracing efforts to try to blunt COVID-19’s spread, working seven-day weeks and unable to take time away.

Oh, no, one of my favorite restaurants, Mexico Joe's has been forced to close in dining.  I ate a nice sour cream chicken enchilada meal there a week ago. While there, I didn't observe anything wrong going on, such as a waiter wearing mask not over nose.  Fortunately, I'm still feeling fine.  Here is Mexico Joe's statement issued as of Thursday:

"With positive COVID-19 tests confirmed at Mexico Joe's, in addition to the many negative tests where our employees are being told to quarantine for 14 days, we only have staff to do Curbside Orders for the time being from 4pm-8pm. We appreciate our loyal customers continued support and concern for our team members. We will continue to evaluate the situation and hope we are reopened to dine-in experiences soon.

We feel strongly our safety and sanitation protocols are effective in protecting our team and guests inside our restaurant. Please practice social distancing and safe behaviors while in the community. We hope for the safe return of everyone to our operation. Thank you for your patronage and we look forward to seeing you soon. "
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on June 20, 2020, 10:33:28 AM
Just wanted to drop in with a thought.

I'm in the "err on the side of caution" group and in my early 60's and possibly in the "at risk" group.  I'll also say that I'm no genius nor very smart (no comments Slowmodem :lol: ).  The following may have been covered before (repeatedly, possibly) but I'm not going back through the thread to find out.  ;) 

Do posts stating "went up to 300 new positive cases" really put things into perspective?...to me it doesn't.  If there were 1000 tests done and there were 300 positives then that would be BIG...a 30% positive rate!  Now, if there were 10,000 tests done and there were 300 positives then that would not be quiet as big...a 3.0% rate.  Unfortunately, we may never know the correct/actual numbers as I'm not sure the "authorities" want us to know or whether they actually have the ability to keep up with it all.  We're at the mercy of the bean counters.

Just my mind trying to figure out what new "positive case" numbers mean if there isn't an associated number of new tests given with the figure?  What percentage of those tested are positive?  And, are they only testing people with symptoms or people who come in to a testing site to be tested?  Or, are they going out into the field...to the work places, people walking down the street, etc., for testing. 

I hope nobody takes this as argumentative or anything.  Just with testing (of any kind) there is so many variables involved that can skew the perceived results either painting a good or bad picture.

For me, I'm social distancing, wearing a mask in businesses, etc.,.  Probably not as well as I should, but I'm not hugging everybody at church, either.  Best wishes to you all.  Stay safe.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: zeppline on June 20, 2020, 12:41:17 PM
Hi I'm in the high risk group with type II diabetic and 79 years today. Is is hard to tell the TV channel all have different numbers. Some are reporting 4000 new cases a day an are opening and going to stage 3?. I try to stay home if I can, but if I have go out wear mask and stay away from people. When I get home take off mask and wash your hands. The more they open things the more numbers go up. All you can do is try to stay safe until they come up with a vaccine.     
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on June 20, 2020, 12:49:56 PM
the beteljuice has discovered living alone + isolating + face masks = dusty dentures  :-|
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on June 21, 2020, 12:23:00 AM
Locally, a rise in hospitalization is of bigger concern than more cases.  At the local hospital, there isn't much cushion for that.   Stillwater is number 10 on the list for Oklahoma cities.

In Stillwater, additional bars and restaurants have seen fit to close again.  This weekend, nights aren't as lively as usual.

Stillwater leaders eye hospitalizations as trigger for COVID-19 restrictions:

With the number of active COVID-19 cases in Stillwater rising from none to 147 over the course of two weeks, Stillwater’s city leaders, medical community and the Payne County Health Department are monitoring the situation closely and preparing to respond.

On Friday, the City of Stillwater released a statement that said a more restrictive emergency proclamation could follow if the disease’s spread isn’t slowed and Stillwater Medical Center sees an increase in patients requiring hospitalization.

The City of Stillwater has moved into Phase III of the state’s Open Up and Recover Safely plan, but could step back to Phase II provisions.

The first move would likely be a reduction in occupancy for businesses and limitations on the number of people who can attend gatherings, City Manager Norman McNickle told the News Press.

“We open it up and it explodes,” he said. “Let’s slow this thing down. We don’t want to shut things down again any more than people want us to … We are concerned. Those of us in local government are responsible for ensuring the health and safety of all of our residents. If we have to take action, we will.”

The city has seen especially rapid growth in confirmed infections over the past week, often jumping by more than 20 cases between reports and, according to the Oklahoma State Department of Health, driven by increases among people 35 or younger.

McNickle said City officials haven’t been privy to details from contact tracing of individuals but, based on generalizations, they understand that the source of many infections appears to be big groups of people in close quarters. Given the accelerating spread of the disease, he finds the number of people walking around without face coverings to be troubling.

And he worries that it will begin spreading from young, healthy people, to the older and more medically vulnerable population.

“It’s gonna jump,” McNickle said. “It’s gonna jump to the other group.”

Shyla Eggers, Stillwater Medical Center’s Director of Public Relations, says it’s already happening.

“In the last few days, we’re seeing more older patients with positive cases,” she said.

Whether Mayor Will Joyce rolls back Phase III provisions ultimately depends on how many patients with active COVID-19 infections are being treated at Stillwater Medical Center.

If the hospital shifts into its emergency plan, the city will also take action, McNickle said.

On Friday, Eggers confirmed that SMC had one patient.

If it begins to consistently see 3-4 patients, the hospital will go to its surge plan, she said. That expands its ICU capacity from 7 beds to 16. The hospital would have the ability to care for many more coronavirus patients in specific areas, while still treating other patients.

It’s something SMC’s administrators and staff would like to avoid.

“We’re disappointed that more people haven’t heeded the warnings,” Eggers said. “… It’s frustrating to see the numbers roll in.”

In a City of Stillwater release, Joyce stressed that he does not want to issue a new, more restrictive emergency proclamation, but that it may happen.

“Right now, we are focusing our efforts on more education and public outreach,” he said.

Residents are being asked to follow CDC recommendations.
FROM:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/stillwater-leaders-eye-hospitalizations-as-trigger-for-covid-19-restrictions/article_28ab03c9-e733-51f7-81de-5fcda329d5d9.html#tncms-source=block-contextual-fallback (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/stillwater-leaders-eye-hospitalizations-as-trigger-for-covid-19-restrictions/article_28ab03c9-e733-51f7-81de-5fcda329d5d9.html#tncms-source=block-contextual-fallback)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on June 21, 2020, 12:39:14 AM
Recently, at the Stillwater Lowe's, men in white were alarming customers by going about spraying disinfectant. As a weekly local paper columnist would likely put it, that is life in the Twilight Zone:

(http://okie.world/photos/lowes.jpg)



Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on June 21, 2020, 07:58:01 AM
Hopefully, we're not literally moving into the "twilight" zone...   Interestingly, the two non-mask-wearing guys on the left side appear to be paying attention to the "men in white" whereas the two masked people appear to be simply asking directions to something.  Interesting juxtaposition of the two groups.  But, the ones without masks are being protected by the mask-wearers while the mask-wearers are in danger from the non-mask-wearers.  People simply don't care or just "don't get" the idea of wearing masks is to primarily protect others.

I absolutely agree about hospitalizations for COVID-19 is of more concern that the total number of cases.  Using the rise and fall of patients in the ICUs, CCUs, on vents, etc., to gauge the level of infections is a much more solid way of judging the virus load for an area, IMHO.

In Montgomery, Alabama, the new mayor has put out an order for mandatory mask wearing, with conditions.  It is a $25 fine for not wearing one.  The city will first give you a mask and try all avenues to wear it before actually collecting the $25 fine.  The mayor stated that the goal is to have people wearing masks...not to collect fines.  At the same time he enacted mandatory mask wearing he canceled a curfew that had been in place.

Two things that disturbed me yesterday...

First...  I live several miles outside of our two-traffic-light town.  The town is small but is on a main US highway, US331, running north-south down the middle of the southern part of the state from Montgomery to Santa Rosa Beach, Florida, ending at US98.  US98 is a major east-west Florida panhandle route to the beaches.  Traffic from I-85, I-65, and US31 converge in Montgomery and much of that traffic follows US331...almost like a funnel for those wanting to go to Destin, Sandestin, Ft Walton, etc.,.  I went into town yesterday to do some work at my shop and upon getting to US331 (I live on an east-west state highway that intersects with US331) I was met by a surprising line of traffic...headed south.  At this point US331 is 2-lane and coming off the 2-lane side-road is simply a "yield" lane for entering US331.  I had to wait probably four minutes or so before there was a gap in the traffic so I could access 331!!!  The usual tags...Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, Illinois, etc., etc.,.   This was on a Saturday, mid afternoon.  Usually, the heavy beach-bound traffic is on Friday afternoons and late Sundays.  I can only imagine what the traffic was like Friday afternoon.  It appears that even though the media is reporting that Florida is a very large number of newly detected COVID-19 cases it isn't dampening people's vacation plans very much.   :shock:  #-o

The second thing, though on a much smaller local scale, is an antique auction that is held nearby...usually monthly.  I passed through the little dried up town between mean and the two-traffic-light town and they were having the sale!!!  There were probably 35 cars parked around place that houses the sale and a large crowd standing around outside the front entrance.  By large, I mean large for a small town....probably 30 or so people standing at the front of the store.  I'm not sure how many would be inside.  But, I saw *no masks* and *no social distancing*.  People were literally elbow-to-elbow. 

Small gatherings of the likes of the auction and larger masses of people traveling to a known "epicenter" for the virus...and that was seen in a single, 14-mile roundtrip from my rural home to my little town.  Similar things are most likely being seen all over the country.  Is there any wonder that we're seeing a second surge beginning?  :-(

Locally, a rise in hospitalization is of bigger concern than more cases.  At the local hospital, there isn't much cushion for that.   Stillwater is number 10 on the list for Oklahoma cities.

In Stillwater, additional bars and restaurants have seen fit to close again.  This weekend, nights aren't as lively as usual.

Stillwater leaders eye hospitalizations as trigger for COVID-19 restrictions:

With the number of active COVID-19 cases in Stillwater rising from none to 147 over the course of two weeks, Stillwater’s city leaders, medical community and the Payne County Health Department are monitoring the situation closely and preparing to respond.

On Friday, the City of Stillwater released a statement that said a more restrictive emergency proclamation could follow if the disease’s spread isn’t slowed and Stillwater Medical Center sees an increase in patients requiring hospitalization.

The City of Stillwater has moved into Phase III of the state’s Open Up and Recover Safely plan, but could step back to Phase II provisions.

The first move would likely be a reduction in occupancy for businesses and limitations on the number of people who can attend gatherings, City Manager Norman McNickle told the News Press.

“We open it up and it explodes,” he said. “Let’s slow this thing down. We don’t want to shut things down again any more than people want us to … We are concerned. Those of us in local government are responsible for ensuring the health and safety of all of our residents. If we have to take action, we will.”

The city has seen especially rapid growth in confirmed infections over the past week, often jumping by more than 20 cases between reports and, according to the Oklahoma State Department of Health, driven by increases among people 35 or younger.

McNickle said City officials haven’t been privy to details from contact tracing of individuals but, based on generalizations, they understand that the source of many infections appears to be big groups of people in close quarters. Given the accelerating spread of the disease, he finds the number of people walking around without face coverings to be troubling.

And he worries that it will begin spreading from young, healthy people, to the older and more medically vulnerable population.

“It’s gonna jump,” McNickle said. “It’s gonna jump to the other group.”

Shyla Eggers, Stillwater Medical Center’s Director of Public Relations, says it’s already happening.

“In the last few days, we’re seeing more older patients with positive cases,” she said.

Whether Mayor Will Joyce rolls back Phase III provisions ultimately depends on how many patients with active COVID-19 infections are being treated at Stillwater Medical Center.

If the hospital shifts into its emergency plan, the city will also take action, McNickle said.

On Friday, Eggers confirmed that SMC had one patient.

If it begins to consistently see 3-4 patients, the hospital will go to its surge plan, she said. That expands its ICU capacity from 7 beds to 16. The hospital would have the ability to care for many more coronavirus patients in specific areas, while still treating other patients.

It’s something SMC’s administrators and staff would like to avoid.

“We’re disappointed that more people haven’t heeded the warnings,” Eggers said. “… It’s frustrating to see the numbers roll in.”

In a City of Stillwater release, Joyce stressed that he does not want to issue a new, more restrictive emergency proclamation, but that it may happen.

“Right now, we are focusing our efforts on more education and public outreach,” he said.

Residents are being asked to follow CDC recommendations.
FROM:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/stillwater-leaders-eye-hospitalizations-as-trigger-for-covid-19-restrictions/article_28ab03c9-e733-51f7-81de-5fcda329d5d9.html#tncms-source=block-contextual-fallback (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/stillwater-leaders-eye-hospitalizations-as-trigger-for-covid-19-restrictions/article_28ab03c9-e733-51f7-81de-5fcda329d5d9.html#tncms-source=block-contextual-fallback)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on June 22, 2020, 03:12:37 PM
Hopefully, we're not literally moving into the "twilight" zone...   Interestingly, the two non-mask-wearing guys on the left side appear to be paying attention to the "men in white" whereas the two masked people appear to be simply asking directions to something.  Interesting juxtaposition of the two groups.  But, the ones without masks are being protected by the mask-wearers while the mask-wearers are in danger from the non-mask-wearers.  People simply don't care or just "don't get" the idea of wearing masks is to primarily protect others.

I guess you can really tell a lot from a total of four people at one point in time.  From your conjecture I have to assume the one who took the picture was a non-mask-wearer as he was paying attention to the men in white.  How do you know that the mask wearers just don't ignorantly see themselves as invincible because they're wearing masks.  How do you know that the non-mask wearers aren't paying attention because they're concerned about violating the six foot rule while the invincible mask wearers aren't.

Not only is everyone a virologist now, but we're also all psychiatrists.  :-P

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on June 22, 2020, 05:10:31 PM
I guess you can really tell a lot from a total of four people at one point in time.  From your conjecture I have to assume the one who took the picture was a non-mask-wearer as he was paying attention to the men in white.  How do you know that the mask wearers just don't ignorantly see themselves as invincible because they're wearing masks.  How do you know that the non-mask wearers aren't paying attention because they're concerned about violating the six foot rule while the invincible mask wearers aren't.

Not only is everyone a virologist now, but we're also all psychiatrists.  :-P
Actually, analyzing the photo further (not only am I a virologist and psychiatrist, but also a photo analyst now  :lol:); the photographer is obviously in front of the man on the left in the foreground.  When you see someone in front of you pull out a camera and point it past you, it's only natural to get out of the way of the camera, and to turn and look at what the cameraman is aiming at.  So the man's reaction appears to me to be completely natural.

I don't see anything strange about the other man on the left walking toward the men in white either, it is perfectly natural to glance at people as you walk by, especially men in white who someone is taking a picture of.  Look at the attention we're paying to them.  The oblivious shopper standing in the middle of the aisle, and the kid asking the man in white if he's an astronaut, could be quite normal too. :-)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on June 22, 2020, 06:03:27 PM
Thanks for playing the part of a shrink, Doc.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on June 22, 2020, 06:57:07 PM
Sometimes it just needs to pointed out to people that there are other more reasonable explanations, than just seeing what people want to see.

So who is showing more courtesy towards others; the man on the left who is attempting to get out of the way so that the photographer can get a clear shot, or the woman obliviously standing in the middle of the aisle forcing others to walk around her?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on June 22, 2020, 11:09:02 PM
Quote
... or the woman obliviously standing in the middle of the aisle ...
The lady (wearing mask) is standing next to someone hidden by man in white suit. It is reasonable to assume she is 'sharing space' as part of a family group which includes the adjacent youth (wearing mask)  ;)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on June 22, 2020, 11:35:49 PM
Good catch.  Could be.  Still shows the problem with reading into things what you want and declaring everyone who doesn't do what you think they should do as somehow inferior or even evil.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on June 23, 2020, 10:34:07 AM
Sometimes it just needs to pointed out to people that there are other more reasonable explanations, than just seeing what people want to see.

So who is showing more courtesy towards others; the man on the left who is attempting to get out of the way so that the photographer can get a clear shot, or the woman obliviously standing in the middle of the aisle forcing others to walk around her?
Since you are the only reasonable one here that knows what is going on I'll excuse myself from this thread.  Btw, you didn't mention that you were there.  Did you take the picture, too? 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on June 23, 2020, 01:05:28 PM

Since you are the only reasonable one here that knows what is going on I'll excuse myself from this thread.  Btw, you didn't mention that you were there.  Did you take the picture, too?
You don't have to be there to use a little bit of reason.

As I recall, you already removed yourself from the discussion.  Remember?  You talked talked something about how you have never been anything but all smiles and friendly to everyone and that you were done with the discussion.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on June 23, 2020, 01:16:15 PM
For the sake of accuracy, lest I'm accused of distorting someone's words:
I agree, too, that that most of the scowling, worried-looking  people usually aren't wearing masks.  It's almost like they know they should be wearing a mask and are for some reason angry that they've been "caught" without one (though they knew very well when they left the house they weren't wearing one).  Go figure, eh? :roll:
I kind of find that hard to believe based on my experience.  But while we're getting into psychology I'll just point out that most people respond in kind to you.  So if you have a superior attitude and think that you "caught" the non-mask wearer, that would go a long way to explain your observation.

I, in no way, act or acted superior to others as you've inferred.  It is evident that our experiences have been different, I was sharing mine.  Where wxforum was once a place of friendly debate on occasion I see that it is now a place for some members to point misguided fingers and promote their "you're wrong, I'm right, it's your fault" attitudes.  Respond as you will, but I'm through with this conversation.  Best wishes.
Still makes me wonder, if your assumptions regarding that photo can be shown to be questionable, can your perception of those you meet on the street also be questionable?  Also have to wonder, who is pointing misguided fingers and promoting their "you're wrong, I'm right, it's your fault" attitudes?  Surely not the one who's quick to condemn all non-mask wearers.  Or even those going to the beach, conducting business, and living their lives.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: METARMan on June 26, 2020, 11:45:55 AM
In Harris County, TX (Metro Houston) ICU bed usage was at 90% of capacity on May 30th.   On June 25th, there have been 76 more patients, the current ICU bed occupancy is 93% of capacity.

A 3% increase in about a month, 76 more ICU patients in a county of over 4,000,000 people.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on June 27, 2020, 07:32:27 PM
OSU and OU will require mask wear on campus.  Oklahoma State Fair in OKC canceled.

And Stillwater City Council still mulls over mask ordinance:

After months of pleading with the public to wear face coverings when they go out, the Stillwater City Council is considering a new city ordinance that would require people to wear masks in public.

The Stillwater City Council is expected to discuss the measure during its July 6 meeting, City Manager Norman McNickle told the News Press. It’s not something the councilors have wanted to do, given the backlash they faced in March after enacting an emergency declaration requiring masks be worn in a variety of businesses.

Mayor Will Joyce has been an outspoken advocate for the wearing of face coverings as a way to slow the spread of COVID-19 during the shutdown and continuing as more businesses and public gathering places opened up.

Until early June, Stillwater had held at 22 total and zero active cases for weeks. As of Thursday, Payne County’s cumulative total had climbed to 300 cases.

Stillwater, which represents about 61% of the county’s population, contributed 88% of those cases with a cumulative total of 264. That number included 109 recoveries and 155 active infections, 85% of Payne County’s 183 active infections.

“The rapid rise in cases is concerning, and we want to make sure we’re considering every possible option for the public’s health and well-being,” Joyce said Friday.

Younger people have made up the bulk of recently diagnoses cases and hospitalizations have remained low, but city and public health officials have said it won’t take much for infections to make the jump to more medically vulnerable populations, and that’s when hospitalizations would also start to rise dramatically.

People are asked to continue following social distancing guidelines, washing their hands, sanitizing, and wearing masks. Health officials also recommend avoiding close contact and large gatherings for more than 15 minutes at a time, McNickle said.

The City Council has indicated it will monitor hospitalizations as a cue to roll back Phase III openings or enact more restrictive measures. Stillwater Medical Center had not needed to enact its surge procedures at press time, but hospitals in neighboring states like Texas are reporting their Intensive Care Units are nearing capacity.
MORE AT:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/stillwater-city-council-mulls-over-mask-ordinance/article_c43c5751-e604-5df4-a8eb-31f79d335183.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/stillwater-city-council-mulls-over-mask-ordinance/article_c43c5751-e604-5df4-a8eb-31f79d335183.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: METARMan on July 01, 2020, 03:02:45 PM
How are things on the ground in Stillwater? 

The “surge” has been occurring for 4 weeks now but the news reports I’ve seen say the hospitals haven’t had a big increase in patients and I only see one death in the county.   When did that happen?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on July 01, 2020, 04:32:36 PM
You've probably noticed, for all the panic and hype from the media, they rarely, if ever, mention the death rate. Down here it's flat, so you got the flu, sorry, you'll feel better soon. Now, can I stop carrying around this rancid mangy mask in my pocket just to get in a store? - oh well, never mind, if you're stuck on stupid I'll just go somewhere else of buy it or get it on line.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on July 01, 2020, 06:21:55 PM
President Trump is finally saying now people should be wearing a mask
about time
also note that the death curve lags the cases curve by 2 to 4 weeks
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: havtrail on July 01, 2020, 08:31:35 PM
You've probably noticed, for all the panic and hype from the media, they rarely, if ever, mention the death rate. Down here it's flat, so you got the flu, sorry, you'll feel better soon. Now, can I stop carrying around this rancid mangy mask in my pocket just to get in a store? - oh well, never mind, if you're stuck on stupid I'll just go somewhere else of buy it or get it on line.

Steve, it depends on where you live. I think you are in Llano County, TX, where there have been no deaths attributed to COVID-19. The worst county in Texas, on the basis of deaths per 100,000 in population, is Crane County, where there have been 42 COVID-19 attributed deaths, which is one death for every 532 residents. The worst-hit county in the U.S. on this basis is Hancock County, GA with 1 COVID-19 attributed death for every 267 residents. These are deaths, not cases.

Data here (go down to the table "Cases and deaths by state and county":
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

Rich K.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on July 03, 2020, 12:40:27 PM
Ok, you want to trust the data being reported as factual, unvarnished actual honest what-is-happening data? - well, here's Collin County and what they're doing, you don't need to watch the whole things, the last few minutes tell you how "honest" and "accurate" the data we're seeing is. It's been well documented in recent weeks that in some areas you can die of a gunshot wound and if the autopsy shows Covid - you're listed as a Covid death. As you might imagine I have absolutely no confidence in what is going on, even here in Texas (and I thought we were smarter?) but it's basically designed to keep us locked down until November and then you'll see how quickly things change depending on the results Nov 4th.
https://www.facebook.com/shannicsewell/videos/10158632650664540/
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on July 03, 2020, 02:37:47 PM
How are things on the ground in Stillwater? 

The “surge” has been occurring for 4 weeks now but the news reports I’ve seen say the hospitals haven’t had a big increase in patients and I only see one death in the county.   When did that happen?

Positive cases still going up in Stillwater.  On Monday it was at 316.  Today, Friday, it's at 360.  As a result,  Stillwater rose up a notch and now rated as the no. 8 city in Oklahoma for number of cases.   That puts things a little out of proportion on the undesirable side from Stillwater being 9th in population.  Fortunately, still no deaths.  The only county death was in Cushing a couple or so months ago.

The city council meets Monday when it will be discussed if more restrictions are needed.  Unlike Texas, hospitals in Oklahoma currently aren't being overwhelmed by the upsurge.  Hopefully, it will remain that way.  But Oklahoma had 526 new cases, Friday.  The all time daily high is 585 set earlier this week.

Tulsa County where Trump was is no longer ahead in total cases as of today.  Oklahoma City is having a surge of its own and now leads in cases.  Oklahoma City mayor responded by requiring all workers in bars and restaurants to wear masks.  Bars must reduce capacity to 50%.  Tulsa did similarly.

4th of July fireworks canceled in Stillwater at Boomer Lake Park.  Happy 4th.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: havtrail on July 03, 2020, 04:12:53 PM
Ok, you want to trust the data being reported as factual, unvarnished actual honest what-is-happening data? - well, here's Collin County and what they're doing, you don't need to watch the whole things, the last few minutes tell you how "honest" and "accurate" the data we're seeing is. It's been well documented in recent weeks that in some areas you can die of a gunshot wound and if the autopsy shows Covid - you're listed as a Covid death. As you might imagine I have absolutely no confidence in what is going on, even here in Texas (and I thought we were smarter?) but it's basically designed to keep us locked down until November and then you'll see how quickly things change depending on the results Nov 4th.
https://www.facebook.com/shannicsewell/videos/10158632650664540/

Do you really believe that Georgia is trying to pump up its COVID fatality numbers?

Rich K.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on July 03, 2020, 04:52:50 PM
With the evidence across the country of what's going on, how can you seriously believe they're NOT pumping up the numbers?
Read it and weep, I can provide examples across the country as long as you deny reality. Look around, use some critical thinking.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8jy9hyl6iqjas6e/NEW%20Covid-19%20Case%20Definions.pdf?dl=0

PS: it's not my job to do your homework for you, if you want to know the truth, dig in and get off the main stream media hype and find the sources of actual truth and I don't mean going to the State's data, I just showed you why that's flawed.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on July 03, 2020, 05:36:23 PM
I find that Dropbox is likely not an authoritative source to be implicitly trusted -- too easy to forge misinformation and pass it off as legit.  Where is that document posted on a legitimate source like https://www.collincountytx.gov/public_health/Pages/default.aspx ?

Rooting around sketchy websites for truth is unlikely to reveal truth, but instead just assist promulgating disinformation.

The numbers of infections and deaths is horrific (even if potentially inflated by misclassification).  Mitigation is the appropriate response to reduce the spread. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on July 03, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
if you want to know the truth, dig in and get off the main stream media hype and find the sources of actual truth
=D&gt; MSM is an absolute scourge on this country, and not just Covid crap.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on July 03, 2020, 06:07:23 PM
Yes, I've dealt with the "sources" of information for years with folks who can't face the truth if it doesn't agree with their narrative. If it's not the NYT or some other MSM rag, it's not legitimate. Let's put it to you this way YOU PROVE YOUR SOURCES ARE CORRECT RATHER THAN SIMPLY EXCLUDING MY SOURCES AS WRONG. Try that for a change and see what you get. You just proved my exact point, the COUNTY is the source of bad information. But, I can see you still aren't willing to do some critical thinking, try this:https://www.dropbox.com/s/8jy9hyl6iqjas6e/NEW%20Covid-19%20Case%20Definions.pdf?dl=0

Yes, Yes, I know, you'd love to imagine away that this isn't a verifiable source of information. The real question I have to ask you is why are you so determined to believe the government and not the people who are watching the government to keep them honest? You answer that and you'll have your truth.




Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on July 03, 2020, 07:04:06 PM
I looked at the PDF file properties:
Title: Microsoft PowerPoint - Explanation.pptx [Read-Only]
Author: e010320
Created: 5/18/2020 10:30:06am
Modified: 5/18/2020 10:30:06am
Subject: <none>
Keywords: <none>

Odd that no mention of https://www.dshs.texas.gov/ or the Collin County DHS site itself in the PDF.

Could it likely have originated from https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort-worth/frisco/coronavirus/2020/05/19/new-covid-19-definitions-by-the-state-could-raise-case-counts-in-collin-county/ ?
That was written by Elizabeth Ucles | 6:27 PM May 19, 2020 CDT | Updated 3:20 PM May 20, 2020 CDT

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on July 03, 2020, 07:57:03 PM
I have grave reservations with the entire scenario as rendered by our infectious disease experts:

Look at the daily cases currently being seen in the NorthEast's 'Commuter States', i.e. NY, CT, NJ, etc.  (On the JHU site click on the lower right 'Daily Cases' tab to display this graph.)  Then on the left column select 'US'.  Then on the bottom of that column go to <Admin1>.  Then click on NY, NJ, CT, MA, or MD to see their curves on the lower right graph.  You will see that they're NOT experiencing an uptick in cases but have instead continued on their steadily descending curves.  Why is this, you wonder?  Are they so much better at contact tracing, wearing masks, sanitizing, and social distancing than the rest of us?  I seriously doubt it considering the severity of their epidemic at its outset.

A much more plausible explanation would be that the infection arrived via airplanes from Europe very early on, and spread throughout the population before any 'control' measures were begun.  No, they're not better at preventing COVID-19's spread!  What we're seeing now is probably the effect of 'herd immunity'.

Now, contrast the NorthEast's experience with that of Fauci's original poster children.  WA, OR, and CA are currently experiencing a second wave of cases far worse than the initial wave.  Why possibly is that?  Travel from China was curtailed very early on, thus limiting the exposure of these states' citizens to COVID-19.  Now that people are relaxing their Draconian measures a bit, the asymptomatic carriers, who incidentally have always been the jokers in this deck, are coming into contact with those who are more vulnerable to symptomatic infections.  Don't believe me?  Take a look at Montana's cases.  After being well-in-hand through early May a huge spike occurred in June, and it has persisted to this day.  Well-to-do people from urban areas in CA, OR, and WA have been building luxury summer homes all over the mountainous regions of the state where it's much less costly than back home, and May is when they returned to their roosts!  This coincides nicely with the increased number of cases seen.

The COVID-19 virus testing farce is not a useful control measure once the curve has been flattened and the health care facilities haven't been overrun.  There are too many ways that infections can be missed and subsequently spread by, you guessed it, asymptomatic carriers, as well as inanimate objects, e.g. your mail.  You need to test everybody every day in order for the tests to actually halt the spread of the virus.  Testing as it's now being done misses the incubation period!  And unless the individual is under strict quarantine with virtually no outside contact there's always the opportunity for new surreptitious infection which testing-just-once will not pick up.

We are inching our way across our country towards the only effective control measure for COVID-19:  herd immunity.  As this occurs we MUST protect those who are most vulnerable to the worst that this virus can do, namely, our elderly, chronically ill, and immune compromised citizens.  Vaccines offer some eventual hope of giving them the necessary immunity in order for them to return to normal social interactions.  But until then it is our responsibility to protect them.

Just my interpretation of the JHU data and the events as they transpire...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on July 03, 2020, 09:49:02 PM
Then click on NY, NJ, CT, MA, or MD to see their curves on the lower right graph.  You will see that they're NOT experiencing an uptick in cases but have instead continued on their steadily descending curves.  Why is this, you wonder?  Are they so much better at contact tracing, wearing masks, sanitizing, and social distancing than the rest of us?

As someone who lives in MA, I can emphatically say yes to this. The overwhelming majority of people are wearing masks when indoors and even outdoors when not near other people. The bars have not reopened yet and there is no intention to do so here until there is a vaccine (as I heard today). It's not ubiquitous, but the vast majority of people are taking it seriously and not putting themselves into the main situations (indoors, close proximity to others, prolonged exposure to other groups of people, alcohol) that provoke the spread.

There are still people getting sick here, and there are still people dying. But a whole lot of us would like the kids to be able to go back to school in the fall and are doing everything reasonably possible to knock the numbers down so that can happen. Just about everyone also knows someone who works in health care and the hell that they went through earlier this year - and don't want to inflict that on them again.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on July 03, 2020, 10:58:03 PM
Steve, it depends on where you live. I think you are in Llano County, TX, where there have been no deaths attributed to COVID-19. The worst county in Texas, on the basis of deaths per 100,000 in population, is Crane County, where there have been 42 COVID-19 attributed deaths, which is one death for every 532 residents. The worst-hit county in the U.S. on this basis is Hancock County, GA with 1 COVID-19 attributed death for every 267 residents. These are deaths, not cases.

Data here (go down to the table "Cases and deaths by state and county":
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

Rich K.
Rich, since there is no "like" button in this forum I'm going to quote your post and give it a +1.

It's nice to see someone that can express their opinion, intelligently, respectfully, without any name calling or suggesting that people who disagree are somehow, "stuck on stupid".

Thank you!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 03, 2020, 11:36:43 PM

It's nice to see someone that can express their opinion, intelligently, respectfully, without any name calling or suggesting that people who disagree are somehow, "stuck on stupid".

Thank you!
Of course you've managed to make your point without taking a jab at anyone on the forum.  :lol:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 04, 2020, 12:16:37 AM
I have grave reservations with the entire scenario as rendered by our infectious disease experts:

Look at the daily cases currently being seen in the NorthEast's 'Commuter States', i.e. NY, CT, NJ, etc.  (On the JHU site click on the lower right 'Daily Cases' tab to display this graph.)  Then on the left column select 'US'.  Then on the bottom of that column go to <Admin1>.  Then click on NY, NJ, CT, MA, or MD to see their curves on the lower right graph.  You will see that they're NOT experiencing an uptick in cases but have instead continued on their steadily descending curves.  Why is this, you wonder?  Are they so much better at contact tracing, wearing masks, sanitizing, and social distancing than the rest of us?  I seriously doubt it considering the severity of their epidemic at its outset.

A much more plausible explanation would be that the infection arrived via airplanes from Europe very early on, and spread throughout the population before any 'control' measures were begun.  No, they're not better at preventing COVID-19's spread!  What we're seeing now is probably the effect of 'herd immunity'.

Now, contrast the NorthEast's experience with that of Fauci's original poster children.  WA, OR, and CA are currently experiencing a second wave of cases far worse than the initial wave.  Why possibly is that?  Travel from China was curtailed very early on, thus limiting the exposure of these states' citizens to COVID-19.  Now that people are relaxing their Draconian measures a bit, the asymptomatic carriers, who incidentally have always been the jokers in this deck, are coming into contact with those who are more vulnerable to symptomatic infections.  Don't believe me?  Take a look at Montana's cases.  After being well-in-hand through early May a huge spike occurred in June, and it has persisted to this day.  Well-to-do people from urban areas in CA, OR, and WA have been building luxury summer homes all over the mountainous regions of the state where it's much less costly than back home, and May is when they returned to their roosts!  This coincides nicely with the increased number of cases seen.

The COVID-19 virus testing farce is not a useful control measure once the curve has been flattened and the health care facilities haven't been overrun.  There are too many ways that infections can be missed and subsequently spread by, you guessed it, asymptomatic carriers, as well as inanimate objects, e.g. your mail.  You need to test everybody every day in order for the tests to actually halt the spread of the virus.  Testing as it's now being done misses the incubation period!  And unless the individual is under strict quarantine with virtually no outside contact there's always the opportunity for new surreptitious infection which testing-just-once will not pick up.

We are inching our way across our country towards the only effective control measure for COVID-19:  herd immunity.  As this occurs we MUST protect those who are most vulnerable to the worst that this virus can do, namely, our elderly, chronically ill, and immune compromised citizens.  Vaccines offer some eventual hope of giving them the necessary immunity in order for them to return to normal social interactions.  But until then it is our responsibility to protect them.

Just my interpretation of the JHU data and the events as they transpire...
Since there is no "like" button in this forum I'm going to quote your post and give it a +1.

It's nice to see someone that can express their opinion, intelligently, respectfully, without any name calling or otherwise taking jabs at people you otherwise disagree with.

Thank you!

 :grin:

(It is interesting to watch how whether someone agrees with the poster or not determines whether that poster is praised or criticized for his perceived manner.)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: METARMan on July 04, 2020, 06:45:33 AM
I am (was) an international airline pilot who likely acquired COVID-19 in London or Madrid in the early Spring.  It was extremely mild and without the testing or knowledge I would have thought nothing of my symptoms.  I still test positive for antibodies, even after a few months.  I seem to be "typical" for flight crews.  With that said, many flight crews (the majority?) have clearly come in contact with COVID-19 yet not developed an antibody response, but they seem to be immune (perhaps t-cells, but not my field of expertise).

I've also been a hypochondriac at times in my life and wasted many days, weeks, months with irrational fear that I had a significant disease.  I see a lot of hypochondria going on today.

I understand coronaviruses typically cause problems for the elderly and those with other significant underlying health conditions.  It seems like COVID-19 is in that regard, like other coronaviruses.

I am extremely disappointed that moderate and potentially more reasonable expert voices were rejected to go down a path that not only appears to be unscientific and irrational but also incredibly destructive economically and socially.  I'm extremely disappointed that politicians have the legal power to remove freedoms and institute restrictions based on fear and hysteria.

I've been impressed with the work of John Ioannidis throughout this pandemic and I think it's a shame he wasn't taken more seriously as I believe we could have alleviated a lot of unnecessary suffering.  He's one of the most cited epidemiologists in the world with this famous paper:

https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124

Here are some articles referencing him in regards to COVID-19:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-bearer-of-good-coronavirus-news-11587746176

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2020/06/12/john_ioannidis_and_medical_tribalism_in_the_era_of_covid-19_111427.html

I do think the closing of schools, mass unemployment, lockdowns and curtailment of freedoms has been unethical and inhumane and while protections should be in place to protect those at risk from COVID-19 the disease was already likely significantly widespread before action was taken. 

I currently do not have any idea why any actions are taken at disease mitigation since it is already clearly so widespread.  Mitigation at this point seems totally ineffective and irrational.   If deaths do not substantially increase again I wonder if the public health experts, epidemiological community and politicians are even capable of acknowledging their failures.   They seem so attached and defined by increasingly unlikely theories I wonder how much more data and science can be collected before they change their agenda, if ever?

Death is as much of a part of life as being born.  If you are scared to die, then you have stopped living and you are wasting the remaining days you have left, with or without COVID-19.

Attached below indicates the 7-day COVID testing average of some developed countries.  The amount of testing going on in the US and more important the increase in testing should be noted -- I believe the reason it is omitted from the media and public health experts dialogue is intentional deception.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on July 04, 2020, 08:57:09 AM
@METARMan  [tup]

The immunology of COVID-19 is poorly understood.  According to some reports (https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200622/covid-19-antibodies-can-disappear-after-2-3-months) the antibodies can be evanescent in some people, i.e. they disappear after a short period of time.  (Bear in mind that the conclusion reached by the author of this article is unscientific nonsense!)  This doesn't mean that these individuals are again susceptible to COVID-19.  Rather their immune system is capable of ratcheting up quickly via an anamnestic immune response in order to ward off any further incursions by the virus.  This does, however, present a huge problem for those who wish to measure individuals' and society's level of protection by serologic testing for immunity.  And there's no way to bridge this gap in our knowledge, save one:  evidence of 'herd immunity' as currently seen in the NorthEast's Commuter States.

I wondered at the outset of the COVID-19 pandemic if the low case numbers reported by the Chinese were due to blatant lies or a covert immunization of their citizens prior to unleashing a possible bioweapon upon the world.  In my ignorance I missed the obvious explanation:  China is the world's largest repository of zoonotic viruses, coronaviruses being among them.  This almost certainly isn't the first time the Chinese have been exposed to similar but more benign congeners of COVID-19, thus giving them a level of herd immunity by default.  Hence the very low case numbers there.

Many thanks for the very helpful links.  John Ioannidis is a superbly honest scientist who isn't afraid to proclaim to all within shouting distance that 'The Emperor Has No Clothes'.  Would that there were more like him.

Happy Fourth of July!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on July 04, 2020, 02:02:54 PM
Oh, oh, Tulsa, where Trump was on June 20, has reclaimed the lead over OKC in having most number of cases, 2,709 to 2690.

Trump is to deliver a message next week concerning how we need to learn to live with the virus. It will be interesting to see what he means,
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/we-need-live-it-white-house-readies-new-message-nation-n1232884 (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/we-need-live-it-white-house-readies-new-message-nation-n1232884)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 04, 2020, 03:29:36 PM
Oh, oh, Tulsa, where Trump was on June 20, has reclaimed the lead over OKC in having most number of cases, 2,709 to 2690.
So how statistically significant is this, and with what basis do they arrive at those figures?  And what will the long term effects be for Tulsa as compared to OKC?  Will the places with the less diagnosed and claimed cases now suffer with less numbers over a longer period of time, or maybe peak some time later?  How many people from OKC went to see Trump in Tulsa?

I see that as a big part of the problem; statistics will be (mis)used and skewed to make virtually any point you want, and I see very little context with the numbers thrown about.  Other than to use them to attack people that they seemingly have an irrational hatred for.

But I'm sure people can take great pleasure in thinking that the spike (if there is one) in cases are Trump supporters who deserve it, after all it was their choice to accept the risk and get on with their lives.  :-P
Trump is to deliver a message next week concerning how we need to learn to live with the virus. It will be interesting to see what he means,
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/we-need-live-it-white-house-readies-new-message-nation-n1232884 (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/we-need-live-it-white-house-readies-new-message-nation-n1232884)
I think it's fairly clear that whatever he means, you and NBC have already formed your opinions of it.

Yep, NBC news  :lol:.  I like the way they slant the "news" from the first paragraph:
Quote
After several months of mixed messages on the coronavirus pandemic, the White House is settling on a new one: Learn to live with it.
As if all the "mixed messages" are coming from the White House, and of course none of it is coming from the epidemiologists and the supposedly settled, yet somehow ever-changing, "science".  It's not like the politicians on the other side of the aisle have changed their minds to the point of contradicting themselves since the pandemic began.

So what is your alternative to "living with the virus"?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on July 04, 2020, 05:08:58 PM
I'm extremely disappointed that politicians have the legal power to remove freedoms and institute restrictions based on fear and hysteria.
They DON'T. The Constitution is merely a "suggestion" to many of our elected officials. Get that part everyone....elected.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on July 04, 2020, 05:12:13 PM
Oh, oh, Tulsa, where Trump was on June 20, has reclaimed the lead over OKC in having most number of cases, 2,709 to 2690.
Yep, NBC news  :lol:.  I like the way they slant the "news"
MSM could be one million percent right and I still wouldn't trust one thing that comes outta all their pie-holes combined.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 04, 2020, 07:29:33 PM
So what is your alternative to "living with the virus"?
Until Bunty or someone answers the question, I can think of only a couple of alternatives: (1) find a cure, or eradicate it as one country has claimed to do, (2) or not live.

I can't see the first one happening in the immediate future, though I hope it does eventually.  And to lend balance to what NBC expects Trump to say, Trump's opponent, Biden, has already expressed his opposition to a cure.
Quote
We have to take care of the cure. That will make the problem worse, no matter what.
(From Biden's interview on ABC's "The View").

In the same interview, Biden also went on to address this question:
Will the places with the less diagnosed and claimed cases now suffer with less numbers over a longer period of time, or maybe peak some time later? 
Quote
We have to take care of the cure. That will make the problem worse, no matter what.  No matter what. We know what has to be done. We know you have to — you’re tired of hearing the phrase, you got to flatten that curve where it’s going up like this, people getting it, and then it comes down.
So Biden wants the curve to be flattened so that the number of cases will remain constant and won't go down.

So Trump's plan is reportedly to "live with the virus".  Biden has indicated that he wishes to avoid a cure and to keep the numbers of infection as constant as possible.

I'm not commenting on which position is better, or even if they're really that much different.  I just thought that as Trump is continually being attacked, it would be fair and balanced to compare the position of his opposition.  :-)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 04, 2020, 07:43:31 PM
Speaking of statistics, as of June 24 New York had 161 deaths per 100,000 people.  Wyoming has 3 deaths per 100,000.  The Wyoming governor has requested that we start wearing masks like they do in NY.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jai Soone on July 04, 2020, 08:24:18 PM
My understanding is that it can take up two weeks to develop symptoms if you are ever going to, then maybe a week to get sick enough to go to the hospital, and then maybe another week to croak. Deaths are not what you call a leading indicator for this virus. Time will tell.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on July 06, 2020, 05:37:14 PM
Hospitalisation rate graph in Texas
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 06, 2020, 06:47:11 PM
Hospitalisation rate graph in Texas
What's your point?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 06, 2020, 06:56:59 PM
This is from khou.com Jul 01:
Quote

Texas has been hit particularly hard by COVID-19.

Doctors say the numbers are moving in the wrong direction – except when it comes to deaths.

The death rate been declining statewide for the last month.

Data from Texas Health and Human Services showed the death rate in Texas peaked on May 26 at 2.7%.

“Our case fatality rate here in Harris County is a little over 1%, which is lower even than the rest of the state which is 1.6% as of today,” said Shreela Sharma, professor of epidemiology with UTHealth School of Public Health.
So obviously some graph found from who-knows-where by someone trying to stir the pot doesn't tell the whole story. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 06, 2020, 07:33:06 PM
I also wonder how much hospitalization will go up once "elective" procedures are again allowed, considering how they must have been piling up, and how many more severe cases of other diseases there will be as people have avoided going to the hospital, and what the death rate from them will be?

I'm sure whatever the true figures are, people will play junior-scientist with them to prove their points.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on July 06, 2020, 08:28:42 PM
Trolls will be trolls and the MSM will be the MSM. If as much energy was put into learning how to truly deal with our country's problems, present dilemmas, and stigma's as is stirring crap up for PURE political gain, I imagine things might be a little more "brighter".
Whatta an absolute, utter sad joke our society is becoming here. :sad:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 06, 2020, 08:48:33 PM
Yep, but really being an optimist (no matter how it may appear) I keep thinking people will wake up and see what's going on.  I know a few have.  [tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on July 06, 2020, 08:57:02 PM
Yep, but really being an optimist (no matter how it may appear) I keep thinking people will wake up and see what's going on.  I know a few have.  [tup]
I personally will do whatever in my power to quash the attempted destruction of the greatest country on earth.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on July 06, 2020, 09:43:08 PM
https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/tmc-daily-new-covid-19-hospitalizations/
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 07, 2020, 02:36:02 AM
https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/tmc-daily-new-covid-19-hospitalizations/
So again, what is your point?  And how does this hospital compare to other hospitals?  What is the cause of the increase?  What does all this mean long term?  Why is the death rate reportedly down?  Why not provide some context?

Wasn't it predicted infections would go up when the society started opening?  If so, I don't see why we need to act surprised, or need to place blame.  What was the alternative, not opening up society and the economy?  How many people in the long term would that kill?

I would think some would be happy with the news that deaths from the virus are down, and maybe even take that as a good sign.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on July 07, 2020, 03:47:31 AM
Mask wear to be required in Stillwater even though only 2 covid patients in Stillwater Regional Hospital.  But total cases had risen to 378 as of Monday.  Statewide, Oklahoma had 478 new cases for the most ever reported on a Monday.

Stillwater City Council advances mask ordinance for residents

After receiving hundred of emails, social media messages and phone calls, and hearing from 20 speakers during their live meeting, the members of the Stillwater City Council voted unanimously Monday to advance what may be the first ordinance in Oklahoma requiring people to wear face coverings in public.

The ordinance is supported by Oklahoma State University and Stillwater Public Schools, whose representatives appeared to express that support.

Norman Mayor Breea Clark, who appeared via Zoom to collect on a bet she made with Mayor Will Joyce over census response rates, said the Norman City Council will be considering a similar ordinance on Tuesday.

Stillwater’s ordinance will go to second reading at a time that has yet to be announced, with some changes to its original language. They include an exemption for pre-school age children and softened language regarding the responsibilities businesses have under the ordinance.

Although most of the councilors expressed a desire for more clarity in the language and several speakers asked that it be given more “teeth,” City Attorney John Dorman said it isn’t necessary to include a lot of specific penalties in the new ordinance because those are already provided in other ordinances already on the books.

The revised language the councilors discussed, at Joyce’s urging, includes changes to the phrasing regarding some issues from “shall” to “may,” to provide flexibility.

For example, the amended ordinance will require businesses to post signs – which the City of Stillwater will provide – informing people they are required to wear face coverings in the businesses. They have the option of asking people who refuse to wear face coverings to leave and having them charged with trespassing if they refuse, but the business owners won’t face a penalty for not confronting people who refuse unless their business becomes a consistent problem and begins to fall under nuisance or public health ordinances.

Business owner Austin Ray expressed concern about his employees being on the front line, charged with enforcing the ordinance and dealing with irate customers.

“… I’m not paying them to risk their safety,” he said.

The Stillwater Fraternal Order of Police also addressed the ordinance, with Miguel Najera, a former city councilor who is now a police officer, addressed the councilors and asked them to consider the ramifications for law enforcement.

Najera said the officers are not anti-mask. Most wear them regularly, and all wear them while working, as required.

The FOP argument centered on whether the ordinance is truly necessary. He said the public trusts them to enforce laws that are meaningful and have a purpose and noted that businesses already have the ability to require masks and ask people to leave if they refuse.

“The people who want to wear masks are already wearing them,” Najera said. “The people who don’t want to wear them are the ones we’ll have to deal with … the risk doesn’t outweigh the reward.”

He said the union is worried about staffing issues when the limited officers on duty are called on repeatedly to deal with mask issues.
MORE AT:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/early-adopter-stillwater-city-council-advances-mask-ordinance-for-residents/article_18453428-ace4-5310-9533-4a8d980ab81d.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/early-adopter-stillwater-city-council-advances-mask-ordinance-for-residents/article_18453428-ace4-5310-9533-4a8d980ab81d.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on July 07, 2020, 04:08:32 AM
I'm extremely disappointed that politicians have the legal power to remove freedoms and institute restrictions based on fear and hysteria.
They DON'T. The Constitution is merely a "suggestion" to many of our elected officials. Get that part everyone....elected.

Required mask wear isn't much more inconvenient or freedom robbing than making sure your private areas are covered every time you go out in public or to a store.  While they're not 100% effective, masks can prevent people from totally losing their freedom and liberty by ending up helpless in the ICU from the virus.

While young people are much less likely to die from the virus they may need months to fully recover.  Utah Jazz center Rudy Gobert, 28, was the first NBA player to report testing positive for COVID-19 back in March. Three months later, he still hasn't fully recovered.  Days before his diagnosis, Gobert had made light of the pandemic when he jokingly touched every microphone during a news conference.  He later publicly apologized and urged the public to not fall into a false sense of security like he did.  "I wish I would have taken this thing more seriously, and I hope everyone else will do so", he said.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 07, 2020, 05:26:55 AM
Is it ever going to end?  Suppose the virus is eradicated, or a vaccine is developed, or whatever, which doesn't appear to be in the near future, people may be be so conditioned to expect their health to be protected that they'll demand masks be worn during cold and flu seasons and any and all outbreaks, which could be anywhere from Fall to Spring to all year.  Or maybe just be worn in general anyway, after all you never know where someone has been or what and who they've come into contact with. All pandemics start somewhere.

I think people have already been developing weak immune systems from the over use of antibacterial products and stuff from way before this virus ever started.  It's probably just going to get worse.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 07, 2020, 03:18:37 PM
I found it kind of interesting:

The history of mask wearing during pandemics.  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/reference/european-history/plague-doctors-beaked-masks-coronavirus/

Quote
During the 17th-century European plague, physicians wore beaked masks, leather gloves, and long coats in an attempt to fend off the disease.
Quote
Plague doctors filled their masks with theriac, a compound of more than 55 herbs and other components like viper flesh powder, cinnamon, myrrh, and honey. De Lorme thought the beak shape of the mask would give the air sufficient time to be suffused by the protective herbs before it hit plague doctors’ nostrils and lungs.

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_doctor_costume)

So I guess that was Epidemiology 101 of the day.  Mask wearing has a proud history.  Now off I go to fill my mask with various herbs (I'll keep it legal), snake skins, and such. :-)  (Though actually, if two layers of cloth provide more protection than one, I would think another layer of 55 herbs and such should provide that much more.  Maybe add some more mint for freshness too.)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on July 07, 2020, 03:19:17 PM
Oh, oh, Tulsa, where Trump was on June 20, has reclaimed the lead over OKC in having most number of cases, 2,709 to 2690.
So how statistically significant is this, and with what basis do they arrive at those figures?  And what will the long term effects be for Tulsa as compared to OKC?  Will the places with the less diagnosed and claimed cases now suffer with less numbers over a longer period of time, or maybe peak some time later?  How many people from OKC went to see Trump in Tulsa?

I see that as a big part of the problem; statistics will be (mis)used and skewed to make virtually any point you want, and I see very little context with the numbers thrown about.  Other than to use them to attack people that they seemingly have an irrational hatred for.

But I'm sure people can take great pleasure in thinking that the spike (if there is one) in cases are Trump supporters who deserve it, after all it was their choice to accept the risk and get on with their lives.  :-P
Trump is to deliver a message next week concerning how we need to learn to live with the virus. It will be interesting to see what he means,
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/we-need-live-it-white-house-readies-new-message-nation-n1232884 (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/we-need-live-it-white-house-readies-new-message-nation-n1232884)
I think it's fairly clear that whatever he means, you and NBC have already formed your opinions of it.

So what is your alternative to "living with the virus"?

OKC now has slightly more positive cases than Tulsa.  But Tulsa can NOT get consolation from that.  Thanks to the  population in Tulsa being somewhat smaller than OKC, the Tulsa infection rate is 60% worse.  I would sooner it be the infection rate be much lower,  so as to suggest indoor gatherings in large facilities are safe.  But as a result, I still don't know if the Philadelphia Orchestra will perform as scheduled at the McKnight Center in Stillwater in September to kick off a new season. I am looking forward to going to it, but won't be shocked if it's canceled.

The alternative is to better accept mask wear when in public.  It's better than going back to closing stores.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 07, 2020, 04:02:54 PM

OKC now has slightly more positive cases than Tulsa.  But Tulsa can NOT get consolation from that.  Thanks to the  population in Tulsa being somewhat smaller than OKC, the Tulsa infection rate is 60% worse.  I would sooner it be the infection rate be much lower,  so as to suggest indoor gatherings in large facilities are safe.  But as a result, I still don't know if the Philadelphia Orchestra will perform as scheduled at the McKnight Center in Stillwater in September to kick off a new season. I am looking forward to going to it, but won't be shocked if it's canceled.

The alternative is to better accept mask wear when in public.  It's better than going back to closing stores.
Do you know what the infection rate of Tulsa vs OKC two or three weeks ago for a comparison?  I think that would be a start to get some ideas, but there would still be a lot of other variables (i.e. how much testing is done in Tulsa compared to OKC, how many people traveled from OKC to Tulsa, what percentage of the population of each attended the rally or other large gatherings, etc.).  Unfortunately, due to the state of the media and politics involved, I don't know if accurate and meaningful figures are readily available, if available at all.

Quote
The alternative is to better accept mask wear when in public.
Fair enough.  Yet I would think that the decision to go out in public, whether it means wearing a mask or not, as part of "living with it".  Going and watching a live orchestra is living, even if you wear a mask.  If you have to wear a suit and tie...well, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on July 07, 2020, 05:17:22 PM
Quote
Quote from: waiukuweather on Yesterday at 09:43:08 PM
https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/tmc-daily-new-covid-19-hospitalizations/
So again, what is your point?  And how does this hospital compare to other hospitals?

i see this is being repeated in other states now too (hospitlisation rates going up) and I see the deaths in the last 24 hours reported for the USA is gone up as well
not good
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 07, 2020, 05:19:47 PM
i see this is being repeated in other states now too (hospitlisation rates going up) and I see the deaths in the last 24 hours reported for the USA is gone up as well
not good
Thanks for pointing that out.  Very helpful.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on July 09, 2020, 02:42:48 AM
On Tuesday, Oklahoma set a new daily high of positive cases with 856.

This week paid contact tracers and the Oklahoma City County Health Department affirmed that the virus spread is occurring from the following: Bars, Weddings, Gyms, Funerals, Church Activities, Family Gatherings and Other Small Gatherings.  No mention of the Trump Rally in Tulsa on June 20. 

Also the OKC mayor and the director of the OCCHD both stated that protests in OKC were not a cause of the current spike.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on July 10, 2020, 04:44:02 PM
On Thursday evening, the Stillwater City Council approved a revised face-covering ordinance for public areas that will go in effect Saturday.  It was passed unanimously, 5-0. The councilors heard from about 20 speakers during the public comment portion of the meeting, with a strong contingent of residents who said they object to the ordinance because they believe it violates their personal freedom. One man against the ordinance wrapped up by including he would no longer shop at Stillwater businesses.  He then removed his masked and returned to his chair.  The mayor told him he had to put his mask back on or leave.  After hesitating, two cops walked up to him.  He got up and left, along with his masked little boy.  Video of him begins at 1:01:10 below.  Also two photos of the incident below.  https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/stillwater-city-council-passes-face-covering-ordinance/article_3ee9cde4-c249-11ea-9397-9f38f0ed0170.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/stillwater-city-council-passes-face-covering-ordinance/article_3ee9cde4-c249-11ea-9397-9f38f0ed0170.html) 

Unfortunately,  Stillwater recently had its first death from covid.  He was a 79 year old man who had been hospitalized in ICU for two weeks.  As of Friday, Stillwater had 407 positive cases with 343 recoverd.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtqTT6wgBmw[/youtube]

(http://okie.world/photos/mask.jpg)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on July 10, 2020, 05:22:03 PM
(https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106566252_973064443145232_8531834000690007032_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_oc=AQlJDmgUH4CfWAL5N37dyVPlvOohzcicRgVYIw7hely1KW9pqfLpr9Mn8x9nh43visHc_J-drozB1zm7wMneeZcZ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&oh=d0add71ade2c0284b018ec7c81deb255&oe=5F2ECDD1)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on July 10, 2020, 08:38:34 PM
(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/200703134828-vintage-store-viral-mask-sign-exlarge-169.jpg)

Quote
Unfortunately,  Stillwater recently had its first death from covid.  He was a 79 year old man who had been hospitalized in ICU for two weeks.

In early June, in Spokane county, we were seeing new cases in the single digits (typically 3 or 4), now they're averaging over 50. Not sure how many deaths but my wife was reading the local obits earlier this week (something I avoid) and noticed that someone we knew had passed from covid.

Washington state now requires businesses to refuse service to anyone not wearing a mask (No shoes, no shirt, no mask, no service). We've been camping for a week and shopping in Idaho so I don't know how well this is working.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on July 12, 2020, 04:15:43 AM
Stillwater News Press editorial concerning those who spoke out against the mandatory mask ordinance:

OUR VIEW: We choose compassion

Of all the preposterous ideas floated by the patriots and junior scientists standing up against the supposed tyranny of a face-covering ordinance at the City Council meeting, one stood out that we would hope isn’t shared by many.

That was the idea that the disease is somehow the sole responsibility of an individual to avoid contracting it. That truly healthy people with impeccable diets should have no fear of contracting the virus. That same idea was held in concert with the idea that others would bear no responsibility in spreading it. To this, we say, “huh?”

We wonder how many people share this sentiment, and we hope it isn’t many. Because, we have plenty of Oklahomans with underlying health conditions, especially when you start looking at the broad list of things that could complicate the virus – such as being overweight, having high blood pressure, having asthma or other chronic respiratory illness, cancer, having diabetes and list that stretches far enough to include a pretty large swath of the population.

Are there really people out there who don’t realize you can get a chronic illness despite how much you diet or exercise? Or does it just make people feel better to wrap every single issue where a little compassion could get us through tough times by believing personal responsibility is the key to all that ails us.

Why did the human race form societies? Why do we live in towns now? We do it because we need each other. And we need each other to care about each other.

Ken Chance lived his life for others. He death likely came from someone who had no idea they were spreading it. There is no shame in contracting this virus, having complications from the virus or succumbing to it. Spreading it, that’s another story, because we’ve been told by people who study these kinds of things what to do about it. We are well aware of the choices that are in front of us. We’re going to follow Mr. Chance’s example and choose compassion.
FROM:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/opinion/our-view-we-choose-compassion/article_00722d54-c325-11ea-b20a-2b60b38ed627.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/opinion/our-view-we-choose-compassion/article_00722d54-c325-11ea-b20a-2b60b38ed627.html)

The late Mr. Chance's story:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/stillwaters-chance-remembered-most-for-the-concern-and-compassion-he-showed-others/article_ea03dd72-4e03-5db4-b6aa-fa20d3c69ad6.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/stillwaters-chance-remembered-most-for-the-concern-and-compassion-he-showed-others/article_ea03dd72-4e03-5db4-b6aa-fa20d3c69ad6.html)

His daughter Kim Barwick says she is now much more passionate about the need for face coverings in public. “If it weren’t for this virus, I think we would have got him into his 90s,” she said. “I want people to be aware that it’s really a bad thing. We were supposed to be planning his 80th birthday party instead of his funeral, so it’s really sad that we’re in this situation.”
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 12, 2020, 01:31:19 PM
You can ask all kinds of questions about the effectiveness of wearing masks and isolating, and other measures, and about how it effects "herd Immunity", and whether masks are going to be required in society from now on as long as there are any communicable diseases, whether those who have had the Wuhan virus, and those with other respiratory problems will be required to wear the mask (and you can be sure the self-appointed mask police aren't going to differentiate), the long term effects, why fascists rioting in large crowds without masks supposedly don't spread the virus, etc., etc.  And as you can see, even on this thread, all the questions go unanswered as we promote the politically correct dogma, based on shaky "science", without addressing any unintended consequences, and all the time we're just concerned about making us feel better about ourselves.  Whether or not there is such a thing as "herd immunity", there sure is a herd mentality.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on July 12, 2020, 09:58:41 PM
What Dr. John Wedlake, Stillwater City Councilman had to say about supporting mandatory masks:

"As a medical doctor, the only practicing neurologist within at least a 50-mile radius, and one of Stillwater's City Councilors, I too speak to a multitude of doctors on a daily basis. All of the physicians I have consulted support the wearing of masks in areas of communal gathering as a means to mitigate the spread of COVID-19. We don't make this recommendation with our comfort, or even our convenience in mind...we do so because we have read the literature, we've seen the data, and the mounting evidence that properly-fitting masks limit incidence of disease and spread of SARS-COV-2. 

 I can empathize with your feelings regarding masks, but please try to understand that our decisions were based on trying to provide the greatest safety to our constituents and municipality, while minimizing disruption of normalcy. I know masks are not as convenient as ‘no masks,’ and for that I apologize. It was a decision with no perfect outcome, but one that had to be made."

Meanwhile, 100% compliance with everybody being required to wear masks in the Perkins Rd. Wal-Mart, Stillwater on Sunday morning.  A worker at the entrance provided free masks at the entrance for customers who didn't have any.


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 12, 2020, 10:31:59 PM
That's the thing.  All people can do is repeat the same old dogma.  Even doctors who probably haven't really studied things out for themselves.  If they dissent from the group think in this age of post free speech, it would probably hurt their professional status.  Note how all the questions above and in previous posts continue to go unanswered.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on July 12, 2020, 11:59:34 PM
What questions in the previous posts go unanswered?  Your opinions seem fairly obvious to all.  You are a doubter in the data, the methodology used to gather it, the expert conclusions reached from that data, and the recommendations by the epidemiologists and public health officials.

While you may not be personally impacted by the current pandemic, your strongly voiced dissent is unhelpful to the discussion of reasonable precautions needed to reduce the spread of the disease.  The science indicates the virus spreads via airborne droplets/aerosols.  Humans do not have built-in immunity at this time.  Asymptomatic carriers can spread it without knowing/feeling illness themselves.  The simple solution is to assume everyone is possibly asymptomatic and wear facial coverings to dramatically reduce droplet/aerosol spread, maintain social distance and clean hands/sanitize while outside your home.  It's not a 'freedom thing', it's a humanity thing -- something we do to protect ourselves and others.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on July 13, 2020, 12:25:27 AM
Here are a couple points that people don't seem to want to answer:
Quote
Unfortunately, no one is telling the frail elderly and those with lung diseases, such as COPD, emphysema or pulmonary fibrosis, of these dangers when wearing a facial mask of any kind—which can cause a severe worsening of lung function. This also includes lung cancer patients and people having had lung surgery, especially with partial resection or even the removal of a whole lung.

The importance of these findings is that a drop in oxygen levels (hypoxia) is associated with an impairment in immunity.
Quote
There is another danger to wearing these masks on a daily basis, especially if worn for several hours. When a person is infected with a respiratory virus, they will expel some of the virus with each breath. If they are wearing a mask, especially an N95 mask or other tightly fitting mask, they will be constantly rebreathing the viruses, raising the concentration of the virus in the lungs and the nasal passages. We know that people who have the worst reactions to the coronavirus have the highest concentrations of the virus early on. And this leads to the deadly cytokine storm in a selected number.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/face-masks-pose-serious-risks-healthy/5712649

Of course we could exempt certain people like the elderly with respiratory diseases from wearing masks, but again, I don't think the self-appointed mask police are going to understand or accept that.

It just would be nice to know what the long term effects of our decision to live for the moment will be, and how many lives will be lost in the long term due to going to all lengths to save ourselves in the short term.  But no one seems to be willing to answer those questions.  The response seems to be "wear your mask and shut up".

Personally, as I mentioned before, I think places like Walmart have a right to require people to wear masks in their stores, no matter how well based or not the science (which in today's world is often little more than hindsight, guesses, and popular opinion) is, it's their stores.  I also have the right to shop there or not.  I do have a problem with heavy handed government.

What questions in the previous posts go unanswered?  Your opinions seem fairly obvious to all.  You are a doubter in the data, the methodology used to gather it, the expert conclusions reached from that data, and the recommendations by the epidemiologists and public health officials.

While you may not be personally impacted by the current pandemic, your strongly voiced dissent is unhelpful to the discussion of reasonable precautions needed to reduce the spread of the disease.  The science indicates the virus spreads via airborne droplets/aerosols.  Humans do not have built-in immunity at this time.  Asymptomatic carriers can spread it without knowing/feeling illness themselves.  The simple solution is to assume everyone is possibly asymptomatic and wear facial coverings to dramatically reduce droplet/aerosol spread, maintain social distance and clean hands/sanitize while outside your home.  It's not a 'freedom thing', it's a humanity thing -- something we do to protect ourselves and others.
I asked many questions that have not been addressed.  Have you not read them?  Have you not noticed that the data and professional opinions are not static?

Humans do not have built-in immunity at this time. 
So how is built-in immunity developed?

What questions in the previous posts go unanswered?
To help you out, we can start with this just from a post yesterday:
You can ask all kinds of questions about the effectiveness of wearing masks and isolating, and other measures, and about how it effects "herd Immunity", and whether masks are going to be required in society from now on as long as there are any communicable diseases, whether those who have had the Wuhan virus, and those with other respiratory problems will be required to wear the mask, the long term effects, why fascists rioting in large crowds without masks supposedly don't spread the virus, etc., etc. 
Sorry if I missed where these questions were answered, along with what the long term effects of all this is that I asked several times.

Other recent questions:
Oh, oh, Tulsa, where Trump was on June 20, has reclaimed the lead over OKC in having most number of cases, 2,709 to 2690.
So how statistically significant is this, and with what basis do they arrive at those figures?  And what will the long term effects be for Tulsa as compared to OKC?  Will the places with the less diagnosed and claimed cases now suffer with less numbers over a longer period of time, or maybe peak some time later?  How many people from OKC went to see Trump in Tulsa?
I also wonder how much hospitalization will go up once "elective" procedures are again allowed, considering how they must have been piling up, and how many more severe cases of other diseases there will be as people have avoided going to the hospital, and what the death rate from them will be?
https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/tmc-daily-new-covid-19-hospitalizations/
So again, what is your point?  What is the cause of the increase?  What does all this mean long term?  Why is the death rate reportedly down?  Why not provide some context?

Wasn't it predicted infections would go up when the society started opening?  What was the alternative, not opening up society and the economy?  How many people in the long term would that kill?

Is it ever going to end?  Suppose the virus is eradicated, or a vaccine is developed, or whatever, which doesn't appear to be in the near future, people may be be so conditioned to expect their health to be protected that they'll demand masks be worn during cold and flu seasons and any and all outbreaks, which could be anywhere from Fall to Spring to all year.  Or maybe just be worn in general anyway, after all you never know where someone has been or what and who they've come into contact with. All pandemics start somewhere.
I know I got at least one answer when I asked what the alternative to "living with the virus" is:
The alternative is to better accept mask wear when in public. 
Which is implies to me that he believes wearing a mask isn't living.  I disagreed with that, and pointed out that you're living with it whether you choose to wear a mask or not.

As for my opinions being obvious, I believe many other's here are also very obvious, they'll bring up points oftentimes for seemingly no reason other than to criticize leaders or parties or even the leaders of other countries (that apparently I'm not supposed to respond in kind to), or even go on rants, and dodge questions and run away if you bring up counterpoints, and I thought this was supposed to be a discussion where other views and questions could be presented.  I at least attempt to answer honest questions when asked rather than just repeating the same things and pretending they were never asked.
 
I haven't told anyone not to wear a mask, nor have I even said I wouldn't, as far as I can recall.  Nor do I even recall mentioning a 'freedom thing', though I do take our freedoms seriously despite any disdain you may have, but you may not have been personally impacted by the cost it took to obtain and keep those freedoms.  I even mentioned I always have a mask on me, or at least a bandana, for whenever needed.  I don't demonize those who do or don't wear masks.  Yet by virtue of the very fact that I even ask about what the long term effects of our actions are on the disease and society, or dare question the experts or the changing data, I'm accused of being a dissident, unhelpful and apparently even inhumane. 


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on July 13, 2020, 07:31:39 AM
@ SnowHiker:  You are a superb polemicist and I'm just an all-around skeptic who doesn't basically disagree with you.  BUT I would caution you that when you get under the skin of the one person who has done more by far for our weather-enthusiast community, you are treading where most dare not go.  After all, he for all intents and purposes OWNS this forum.  While that doesn't mean his opinion means more than any other, he can control the narrative if he so wishes.  His post was an attempt to tone down the vituperative nature of our current discussion.  Please just be aware that nobody's patience is unlimited.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: BeaverMeadow on July 13, 2020, 09:30:36 AM
This interview with Dr. Fauci of July 9 on fivethirtyeight is an objective non-political assessment of the current covid situation. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjaGx0W4bdw
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on July 13, 2020, 09:38:24 AM
I think this thread has been most useful helpful when people have talked about their experiences, what works for them, what doesn't.

It has been least helpful when debating the science behind the virus / disease (where, unfortunately, politics always gets involved whether explicit or implicit). This isn't an epidemiology board. We're weather geeks. Some of us are software / programming nerds. If this is your ultimate source for pandemic science information, you are looking in the wrong place.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on July 13, 2020, 09:43:36 AM
Please just be aware that nobody's patience is unlimited.
You are correct on that one, my patience on this subject ran out long ago, so I rarely visit the forum any longer, it's become another virtue signaling group and if you don't join the group think then you're automatically wrong.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: alanb on July 13, 2020, 10:46:23 AM
@ SnowHiker:  You are a superb polemicist and I'm just an all-around skeptic who doesn't basically disagree with you.  BUT I would caution you that when you get under the skin of the one person who has done more by far for our weather-enthusiast community, you are treading where most dare not go.  After all, he for all intents and purposes OWNS this forum.  While that doesn't mean his opinion means more than any other, he can control the narrative if he so wishes.  His post was an attempt to tone down the vituperative nature of our current discussion.  Please just be aware that nobody's patience is unlimited.
polemicist and vituperative ... learned 2 new words today (well, new to me anyway)  :-)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DRoberts on July 13, 2020, 01:30:03 PM
"It's not a 'freedom thing', it's a humanity thing -- something we do to protect ourselves and others."

SaratogaWX: Thank you. That is exactly correct. [tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on July 13, 2020, 01:39:07 PM
I think this thread has been most useful helpful when people have talked about their experiences, what works for them, what doesn't.

It has been least helpful when debating the science behind the virus / disease (where, unfortunately, politics always gets involved whether explicit or implicit). This isn't an epidemiology board. We're weather geeks. Some of us are software / programming nerds. If this is your ultimate source for pandemic science information, you are looking in the wrong place.

I agree. I've enjoyed hearing about what people are doing individually and the situation in other parts of the country/world but wading through the arguments and political commentary is painful.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on July 13, 2020, 02:45:12 PM
I have done a lot of things around the house. Big and small. Completed 21 things.  Granted some were small like- clean bugs out of lights.
Not only cause of CV19 but just having a little more time when school was in session.

Next big job-sand and stain the deck. I power washed it and took off the old seal. It attracted more dirt than prevented wood rot.

I am not looking forward to school. I do not know how it is going to be done without having mass infections of people.  I do not care if they say kids are not as at much risk. They can bring it home to those they live with. As can I.

Social distancing in a school is impossible. So is expecting kids to wear a mask all the time.
This video shows what kids will be like.

https://www.facebook.com/gabe.thaman/videos/10101704345062634/

If they do hybrid instructions-I feel I will be creating 3 different lessons a day. Impossible.

We have not heard from our board/supt on what will happen. They are waiting for guidance from the state-Late July.

And our Supt is leaving and going to Madison, WI. (a good thing)(for us)

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on July 13, 2020, 03:25:49 PM
We picked a good year to decide to get some more elevated planters as we aren't going away, so they veggies are getting a lot of care. We are up to our necks in pickle cukes right now.  Greens beans are now producing and we're had our first few cherry tomatoes (doing larger ones too). Been using basil (Genovese and Thai) regularly. Oh, and scallions.

I've also taken the time to rehab a friend's Vantage Pro2. It was a good learning exercise taking the entire thing apart. I'm waiting on parts and debugging a thing or two.

We have kid one in college and one in high school. While there are preliminary plans, I'm not taking anything as more than a strawman. Particularly for the state's K-12 schools, there isn't a comprehensive test/trace plan in place. Without that, if they wait for a kid or staff member to become symptomatic, it'll be too late - the school will have to shut down for a couple weeks. While I think I have ideas, I'm awful glad I'm not in charge.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: alanb on July 13, 2020, 06:20:17 PM
...
I am not looking forward to school. I do not know how it is going to be done without having mass infections of people.  I do not care if they say kids are not as at much risk. They can bring it home to those they live with. As can I.

Social distancing in a school is impossible. So is expecting kids to wear a mask all the time.
This video shows what kids will be like.

https://www.facebook.com/gabe.thaman/videos/10101704345062634/

If they do hybrid instructions-I feel I will be creating 3 different lessons a day. Impossible.

We have not heard from our board/supt on what will happen. They are waiting for guidance from the state-Late July.

And our Supt is leaving and going to Madison, WI. (a good thing)(for us)
I can't agree with you more. Here in Iowa, the COVID numbers are going in the wrong direction with no end in sight. I just don't know how schools can reopen in 6 weeks without worsening the surge that is already in progress. It makes me glad I am retired and don't have to face the school reopening dilemma. That said, I have grandkids up there in the Twin Cities area so I still have the worry.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on July 13, 2020, 09:40:35 PM
I was not surprised when Sac and Calhoun Counties (home) were the last to have any confirmed cases.  That said-numbers everywhere are going up.

we got too lax too fast.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DRoberts on July 13, 2020, 11:18:17 PM
I am so glad I am a retired superintendent, not an active one. I feel for those who have to make the decisions about this virus and school children.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: alanb on July 14, 2020, 01:13:06 PM
I was not surprised when Sac and Calhoun Counties (home) were the last to have any confirmed cases.  That said-numbers everywhere are going up.

we got too lax too fast.
I grew up in Webster county ... guess we were neighbors  :-)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on July 14, 2020, 04:42:36 PM
I'm glad I wasn't taking a walk at Boomer Lake Park when someone was mistakenly trying to make trouble over people not wearing masks.  When I'm there, the only people I saw wearing masks appeared to be Asians, but are likely more used to it, in order to protect from air pollution in Asia.

Compliance High as Mask Ordinance Takes Effect
Disposable masks are a hot commodity in Stillwater after a city ordinance took effect Saturday, requiring most people over age 5 to wear face coverings while in public.

People who have legitimate medical conditions that cause breathing difficulties, or who have mental health conditions or developmental disabilities that make wearing a face covering an undue hardship are also exempted under guidelines developed by the CDC.

The ordinance was adopted by the Stillwater City Council last week to slow the community spread of COVID-19, now and in preparation for the arrival of thousands of Oklahoma State University students in just a few weeks.

According to the university, it has 24,649 students, 26% of whom are from out of state.

Stillwater’s rate of new infections has slowed and reported recoveries have exceeded new cases in recent days. A majority of new cases have been among younger people, who often don’t become as ill.

But the virus is still putting people in the hospital.

Stillwater Medical Center reported on Monday that it had three COVID-19 patients, one of whom was in ICU.

Most people seem to be complying with the new city ordinance, Stillwater City Manager Norman McNickle said. It was a quiet weekend for the most part.

He confirmed that police were called to a grocery store on Saturday morning after a customer refused to put on a mask before entering and began to create a scene. The person had left by the time officers arrived.

Officers were also called to Boomer Lake Park because someone mistakenly thought that people using the park were required to wear masks. That person began yelling at other people.

McNickle said police officers were able to clear up the misunderstanding when they arrived on scene.

The hotline established by the City to take questions and reports of non-compliance received about six calls over the weekend, he said. Several were just questions but at least one person called to report that a few people in a local store that tends to be very busy on the weekends were not wearing face coverings.

McNickle said his personal observation over the weekend was that a vast majority of the people in stores are wearing face coverings. He said others he talked with told him they saw the same.

In an effort to reduce the burden on local businesses that may have had limited time to prepare, the City has been providing disposable face masks for businesses to give to their customers who don’t have face coverings and pre-printed copies of the posters that businesses are required to post to let people know that masks are required.

Both the Stillwater Chamber of Commerce and Visit Stillwater helped distribute the supplies beginning late last week. They each handed out 15,000 disposable masks, 100 per business per day.

Visit Stillwater CEO Cristy Morrison reported that her office only had enough for 15 more businesses by Monday morning.

Stillwater Chamber President/CEO Justin Minges said his office had given out a total of 8,100 masks by the end of the day Friday.

The Chamber was completely out of masks by 9 a.m. Monday, Communications Coordinator Aubrie Bowlan said.

The City of Stillwater, which has allocated $100,000 to provide supplies and to operate both the hotline and a public education campaign, has ordered 30,000 more masks to give to businesses, McNickle said. The last order took about a week to come in and he hopes the new order comes in as fast.

"But they're becoming hard to get," he said.
https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/compliance-high-as-mask-ordinance-takes-effect/article_5b608621-ea5a-5209-9c6d-42ac68e92e31.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/compliance-high-as-mask-ordinance-takes-effect/article_5b608621-ea5a-5209-9c6d-42ac68e92e31.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Garth Bock on July 14, 2020, 09:30:52 PM
Interesting sign
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on July 14, 2020, 10:44:32 PM
Chief David, my daughter is a reading coach in a rural Title-1 school.  Recently the State of Alabama came out with their "Road to Reopening" plan.  It has basically left opening up to the local school districts.  Imagine a 1" paragraph on what the state department says they have to do, a 5" paragraph on things that the school districts *really* should consider doing, and then a two-page paragraph on "things" they should think about doing.  They're also looking at doing distant (internet) learning...possibly running in-class and online classes at the same time (that is a fine can of worms in itself).  There idea is that if 25% of the students stay home and do distance-learning then that will help with social-distancing for the students that do come to school.  But, it's a rural school and many students have spotty or no internet access at their homes...the answer is to park school buses with wifi close to these areas...let's see, there's a house here and another one a mile down the road then there's three houses together that are 2-1/2 miles on down the road.  Other things are like not having water fountains...the students have to bring their own water bottles.  Football players have to bring their own water bottles to practice.  Teachers rotate classes rather than students *OR*...maybe not.  :roll:   

Basically the state doesn't have a clue what to do and has passed it off to the local districts.  My daughter is an exceptional and dedicated teacher but she's shaking her head at ideas that so far have been floated around.  She's also a "Mama Bear" and has three little girls that follow her to school each day so she has a heightened concern with it all.    :sad:

I think there's a lot that people are just having to learn as they go...in all areas of our lives.  I certainly don't know what to do regarding school.  Heck, I don't hardly know what to do with my own much more simple life...much less handle several hundred or several thousand kids needing educated.  I admire all the educators, healthcare workers, first responders, our LEOs, the cashiers at the grocery store, the garbage collectors, everybody who is trying to keep things chugging along.  But, I just don't think anyone really knows what to do to keep themselves and others safe *and* still do normal things.  I tend to err on the side of caution.  I wish no one any harm and naturally don't won't to put myself or my family in harm's way, either.  I consider my fellow man and hope that he considers me and mine.  We've all got to make it through this together.

I read the other day that pandemics usually stretch out for around two years.  We're basically six months into this one, so we've got a ways to go.  Folks are gonna have understand that things are not the same as they were, that there will be a change and a new normal will come about.  I really hate it all for the kids, so many things we took for granted growing up is currently out of reach for them.

And, for those who think the virus is a joke or something, let them tell the fine lady in this article that it's a joke and that washing your hands often or wearing a mask or keeping six-feet away is dumb.  She's a pastor's wife and a really good person.  She had this interview basically for the purpose of letting folks know that this virus is nothing to argue about...
 https://www.wsfa.com/2020/07/13/woman-passes-tests-faith-endurance-amid-day-covid-hospitalization/


I have done a lot of things around the house. Big and small. Completed 21 things.  Granted some were small like- clean bugs out of lights.
Not only cause of CV19 but just having a little more time when school was in session.

Next big job-sand and stain the deck. I power washed it and took off the old seal. It attracted more dirt than prevented wood rot.

I am not looking forward to school. I do not know how it is going to be done without having mass infections of people.  I do not care if they say kids are not as at much risk. They can bring it home to those they live with. As can I.

Social distancing in a school is impossible. So is expecting kids to wear a mask all the time.
This video shows what kids will be like.

https://www.facebook.com/gabe.thaman/videos/10101704345062634/

If they do hybrid instructions-I feel I will be creating 3 different lessons a day. Impossible.

We have not heard from our board/supt on what will happen. They are waiting for guidance from the state-Late July.

And our Supt is leaving and going to Madison, WI. (a good thing)(for us)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on July 14, 2020, 11:14:06 PM
Well said, Ken.  Thanks.

What questions in the previous posts go unanswered?  Your opinions seem fairly obvious to all.  You are a doubter in the data, the methodology used to gather it, the expert conclusions reached from that data, and the recommendations by the epidemiologists and public health officials.

While you may not be personally impacted by the current pandemic, your strongly voiced dissent is unhelpful to the discussion of reasonable precautions needed to reduce the spread of the disease.  The science indicates the virus spreads via airborne droplets/aerosols.  Humans do not have built-in immunity at this time.  Asymptomatic carriers can spread it without knowing/feeling illness themselves.  The simple solution is to assume everyone is possibly asymptomatic and wear facial coverings to dramatically reduce droplet/aerosol spread, maintain social distance and clean hands/sanitize while outside your home.  It's not a 'freedom thing', it's a humanity thing -- something we do to protect ourselves and others.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on July 15, 2020, 08:24:17 AM
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on July 15, 2020, 08:54:18 AM
not sure what too make of that post

1. its not comic (cartoon worthy)
2. it paints a thought of money is more important than humanity
 (is that the current USA mindset that governs the decisions)
3. if none of above please explain because i dont see anything worthy just another messed up thought or totally warped humor .
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on July 15, 2020, 09:19:22 AM
not sure what too make of that post

1. its not comic (cartoon worthy)

There is a long history of editorial cartoons, particularly in US newspapers, that are not meant to be comic.

Quote
2. it paints a thought of money is more important than humanity
 (is that the current USA mindset that governs the decisions)

Now you're getting near the point.

Quote
3. if none of above please explain because i dont see anything worthy just another messed up thought or totally warped humor .

It is a simple expression of the messed up thought that sending people back into schools without the necessary safety measures in place at a time of a worsening pandemic is a better choice than not sending them. Editorial cartoons usually take something in the news and strip it down to its basics to get the point across. Sometimes there *is* humor involved, but not always.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on July 15, 2020, 09:35:57 AM
ha i see its an american thing forgive me  .. however the problem of schools adapting is a worldwide thing not only reopening but the home online schooling i have many friends here in istanbul who work in a international K-12 environment basically they found adapting to home schooling online was a mind blowing learning curve many put in a 15 hour day or more not just in educating but actually preparing for the day ahead and learning the software.

but there are many issues surrounding schools opening especially the means of commuting to schools to those who have to on a daily basis , food and dining areas and so on . sports is a big one basically all sports teachers i knew have all broken their contracts and returned to their native countries as the requirements are zero at present and unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.

nothing positive in any aspect of this current pandemic , we see a very polarized situation in the USA and hope somewhere along in the near future there is some form of unity in the political scene , science field etc..have a good day..
 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: galfert on July 15, 2020, 09:43:54 AM
Grade school US history books often have these polical cartoons in them to depict the actual cartoons that were published at the time in newspapers. They portraied the sentiment of that time in history (but I didn't much get it). I remember being a kid in school and saying to myself, "oh neat my school history book has cartoons." Then I would try and read them and not get it. Because alone they mean nothing. They are not funny. You had to read the chapter to understand what was going on and what the lesson was. Even after having read the chapter as a kid I thought to myself, "why are they making a cartoon of this horific thing?" As any kid knows cartoons are supposed to be funny. So yeah, back then I didn't much get history nor did I like it. It is interesting to grow up though and reflect and then get it. Interesting to now still learn that this is predominantly an American thing. Who knew. Very interesting how cultures are so similar and yet so different in other ways.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on July 15, 2020, 10:07:53 AM
Here is one of the more famous examples that gives us a term that survives today.

  https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_509530 (https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_509530)

Quote
The “Gerry-Mander” cartoon first appeared in the Boston Gazette, March 26, 1812, and was quickly reprinted in Federalist newspapers in Salem and Boston. The cartoon expressed opposition to state election districts newly redrawn by Massachusetts’ Jeffersonian Democratic-Republican Party, led by Governor Elbridge Gerry. Fearing that the Federalist Party would gain power in the 1812 election, Gerry consolidated Federalist voting strength in a salamander-shaped voting district. The practice—though not invented by Gerry—became known as a "gerrymandering".

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on July 15, 2020, 12:10:56 PM
Editorial cartoons go back to before the US was a country.

As for "gerrymandering" my little county here in south Alabama should get first prize for that.  We have a voting district than is a diagonal slice of area through the middle of the county but is not contiguous...it's broken up in several "islands".
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on July 15, 2020, 06:59:04 PM
Gov. Stitt of Oklahoma said today, Wednesday, that he checked positive for covid.  His symptoms have been mild, achy, feverish.  He's been in a bad habit of going places unmasked as this story reveals:  https://www.thelostogle.com/ (https://www.thelostogle.com/)  He's the first governor to come down with covid.  He says he's still against statewide mandatory mask wear.  Oklahoma City and Tulsa are moving closing to requiring mask wear.  Close to all of America's 50 largest cites require it.

On the same day, Oklahoma set a new one day record for positive covid cases found with 1075.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DRoberts on July 15, 2020, 07:30:27 PM
Governor of Kansas, D, will issue an executive order delaying school opening until after Labor day. Usual date for opening is around 2nd week of August. Not sure if this bit of a delay will make any practical difference. Also not sure if the other party will not come unhinged in response.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on July 16, 2020, 09:04:10 AM
....

On a grey note ...
Another forum I am connected with have their first known COVID 19 hospitalization.
He is in New Zealand where they went into lock down after only two confirmed cases !
The gentleman concerned spent his 77th in hospital and was eventually released.
Sadly he has finally  succumbed and has passed on.  :-(

He was a well respected and informed member of the NZ weather community.

... see the length of time involved - it will be a while more before truly meaningful statistics emerge  :sad:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on July 24, 2020, 04:22:30 AM
How sad.  The older sister of chief meteorologist Mike Morgan of KFOR-4 TV in Oklahoma City has died from covid.  She was 66.  In Oklahoma, people over age 65 are still dying by a huge majority from covid.  Oklahoma hospitals, so far, aren't overwhelmed from more covid patients.  Of greater concern is a shortage of doctors and nurses.

Meanwhile, saying they supported local control rather than state mandates, the Oklahoma State School Board voted 4-3 against mandating face coverings in schools. More at: https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/state-school-board-rejects-face-mask-mandate/article_735018d6-cd25-11ea-93de-cb4b680526ff.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/state-school-board-rejects-face-mask-mandate/article_735018d6-cd25-11ea-93de-cb4b680526ff.html)

Amidst some uncertainty, Stillwater schools expect to reopen Aug. 20.  The school reopening task force has been meeting and working on a plan that incorporates guidance from the CDC, the State Department of Education and the American Academy of Pediatrics along with plans from other schools in and outside the state.

All students and teachers will have their temperatures taken before they enter the building.  Masks required.  If desired by parents, online classes will be offered.  About 29% have opted for that. 

The spike in cases has reversed in Stillwater and started a little before required mask wear, but there are still at least a few cases daily.  It needs to return to zero.  At least Stillwater has dropped one notch for total number of cases in the state from 8th to 9th.

I had dinner Thursday evening at one of my favorite restaurants, Mexico Joe's.  I went during a less busy hour.   Tables are well distanced.  After seating me, the waiter told me to have a mask on if I need to leave the table, due to city ordinance.  The restaurant now offers paper menus only upon request. No more germy hands on their colorful laminated menus. You're given a barcode printed on a small piece of paper to scan with your phone to see their menu online.  For dinner, I enjoyed Bucky's Combo, consisting of a taco and enchilada with beans and rice.  It was good.   I asked the waiter if happy hour was still in effect.  No.  I asked if they still had their delicious tortilla soup.  No.  Darn, those were the main reasons I went there once or twice a week.  The good old days have gone.  Who is Bucky?  He's Mexico Joe's donkey. 

This week I had to go to the dreaded tag office. Over a month ago they had to close for a while from a clerk testing positive.  As expected everybody there was masked.   I was glad only a couple of people were ahead of me.  Since it was in the same complex, I also went to the office where I buy insurance to say hi to a couple of friends. The receptionist aimed an electronic thermometer at me.   It lighted green for good to go. One friend isn't happy with required masks and think it's a crock.  We were all annoyed at how the local restaurants have been abbreviating their menus.  But that is part of living life in the Twilight Zone as a local newspaper columnist would put it.

Mexico Joe's pictured
(http://okie.world/photos/mexicojoes.jpg)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on July 26, 2020, 02:05:12 PM
So how are people getting the virus in Oklahoma County? According to OKC-County Health Dept, contact tracing during July, the 4 hot spots for the virus have been faith based venues, restaurants, office settings and daycare. Bars, gyms, and warehouses are among other major areas of spread.

I was disappointed that the nearest suburb to Stillwater,  Perkins with a total of 31 positive cases, rejected requiring mask wear:

"A steady stream of Perkins residents opposed to an ordinance requiring them to wear face coverings in public addressed the Perkins City Commission Wednesday. It’s not clear if their arguments or the volume of opposition changed anyone’s mind, but they got what they wanted; A majority of the commissioners voted to reject a mandate and instead opt for a recommendation.

The commissioners were considering an ordinance based on the language adopted by cities like Stillwater, Tulsa and Ada, at the request of Commissioner David Lara.

Lara said he loves freedom and has considered himself a free spirit his whole life. But he knows many people who are immunocompromised or at greater risk of becoming very ill from COVID-19 because they are undergoing cancer treatment or have some other condition.

People talk about their freedom but he’s walked into many businesses where people are not social distancing, he said. He believes that people should be free to do whatever they want as long as they aren’t hurting other people.

Lara told the crowd that people worried about their risk of exposure have approached him to to ask, “What about my freedom?”

“What’s a life worth? Even if only a few?” he asked as he addressed arguments about infection and survival rates. “Freedom should be for everyone.”

He also expressed concern about the lasting health impact on even young people who survive COVID-19 infections

“Just because you didn’t die doesn’t mean you’re not going to have problems the rest of your life,” he said.

Stillwater Medical Infection Control Coordinator Necia Kimber urged the commissioners to adopt an ordinance, citing COVID-19’s potential long-term effects on the heart, blood vessels and lungs of survivors.

Lubbock, Texas, a city about three times the size of Stillwater, Perkins and Cushing combined is struggling to deal with its case load right now, Kimber said. Allowing cities in our area to get to that point could force a shutdown, something that would destroy local businesses.

Several business owners asked the commissioners to reject a mask mandate, saying it would hurt their businesses and drive away customers.

Mayor Jason Shilling told the News Press he has heard from several businesses that their sales are up, particularly among people from Stillwater.

Perkins resident Frank Wallick told the commission that if the ordinance were adopted, he would gladly drive to Cushing to buy groceries and eat out, just to celebrate his freedom.

“I will be damned before somebody tells me, on American soil, that I’ve got to cover my face to go out in public,” he said.

The Commissioners will encourage businesses to post signs asking people to wear masks and explaining CDC social distancing guidelines."

From:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/please-and-thank-you-perkins-city-commission-rejects-mask-mandate/article_73736fa2-bd24-5432-bd28-b90010bd6864.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/please-and-thank-you-perkins-city-commission-rejects-mask-mandate/article_73736fa2-bd24-5432-bd28-b90010bd6864.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on July 26, 2020, 02:34:19 PM
Our big decision gets laid down on the state of minn this week.

then we are told we will get more direction from the district the second week of Aug. Nothing like waiting until the last minute. Oh yeah, our supt took a job in Madison, WI.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Garth Bock on July 29, 2020, 05:40:04 PM
Branson, Mo. starts a mandatory mask ordinance on July 31st until September. Masks are required indoors and outdoors in public areas. Most of us locals have been careful. It's the idiot tourists that are showing up sick and want to be free of maks and isolation.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on July 29, 2020, 06:00:25 PM
I was in a clinical lab yesterday getting blood work done and the nurse wore a mask that said "this mask does nothing to stop the virus". Did it ever occur to anyone to ask the size of the virus and what the filter size of the cloth masks we're all forced to wear actually is? Sure, if you actually have it and are hacking and sneezing it stops the droplets, but what about the actual virus itself while we're all out there sucking our own carbon dioxide and bacteria out of our well used masks?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on August 02, 2020, 02:00:34 AM
(https://stillwaterweather.com/photos/fauci.jpg)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on August 03, 2020, 11:02:41 AM
I was at Walmart the other day.  I found that from my previous trip of a week or so ago that mask wearing was less prominent.  Most "associates" had masks on, though maybe using them for chin straps, and customers were a big mixed bag...some couples were split with one wearing and one not, many below-the-nose wearers, a few chin-strap wearers, and I saw one family of a husband and wife with 2-3 kids with no masks at all.  Then when I got to checkout I fumbled with my camera like checking a text message or something but this is what I was met with...
(http://www.beeweather.com/MiscDebris/IMG_0196pp(Medium).jpg)

I think she smelled a fish and within 3-4 seconds (more or less a nanosecond) the mask was over her nose...  ](*,)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on August 03, 2020, 03:39:24 PM
Monday 31st July my friend is feeling a bit under the weather  tired it was hot and humid he put it down to the heat exhaustion
Tuesday wakes up he has a sore throat and aching muscles and feeling lethargic
Wednesday extremely tired and a touch of diarrhea took the the day off work went to hospital was tested
Thursday receives phone call from hospital tests are positive rest of family is tested and all are positive,wife , mother,two sons.
Friday returns to hospital kept in under observation and treatment
Saturday mother very unwell admitted to ICU, wife and sons home isolation showing no symptoms.
Sunday he is admitted to ICU the last we heard from him .

he is a normal every day person hoes goes to work comes home has dinner watches a bit of tv goes to bed   ..

so the moral of this he has no idea who,where,what ,when he contracted this awful virus .he abided by the compulsory mask law here,carried hand sanitizer,regularly washed ,changed clothes twice a day, but like many of us when we are in familiar close family company we let our guard down we become complacent .

here in turkey and many other muslim countries the last few days has been the annual EID period a tradition which involves visiting relatives and enjoying the company ,this has been the first time i have not seen my relatives in person in twelve years ,whilst we exchanged greetings via phone it was just a 5 minute call , where normally we would spend the whole day together at times as many has 30 all sitting round the table enjoying the company and food.but not this year...we are anticipating a fresh lockdown which was lifted in June as the cases slowly creep up once again.i think in general the medical institutions and staff are better equipped and knowledgeable here to as they were at the beginning of the pandemic whilst our cases rise slowly the actual recovery rate with treatment is very high and the death rate is stable of being sub 20 per day . so there we are from turkey where political differences are not stifling in how it is being handled here .
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on August 03, 2020, 04:17:01 PM
Findings from the OKC-Oklahoma County Health Dept.  It might prove useful for your area:

(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116618651_10214522215844025_5306883859367178202_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4FMZGURdaLEAX_fM4l4&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=612f422bb1db0c1238adacccb9d8c660&oe=5F4E9870)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on August 03, 2020, 05:01:30 PM
the sooner people and leaders take it more seriously the sooner it can be brought back under control more and the sooner life can be brought back to more normality for businesses and schools etc etc
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on August 07, 2020, 12:07:23 PM
(https://res.cloudinary.com/dpcuee5rl/image/upload/v1594848513/hair-by-dog-groomer.jpg)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on August 07, 2020, 07:39:10 PM
My wife is a groomer. She did mine back in April. It came out ok. Wasn't as good as barber but I didn't expect it to be.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on August 07, 2020, 09:01:45 PM
A mask and 6 feet has not stopped me from smelling too much cologne and bad BO at the store.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on August 07, 2020, 10:02:52 PM
My wife is a groomer. She did mine back in April. It came out ok. Wasn't as good as barber but I didn't expect it to be.
But, the big question is whether you got the flea dip or not...   :grin:

Thankfully, my old elementary school buddy (dang...50 years ago!!!) was a barber so I see him for my bi-annual shearing...unless, of course, there's a special occasion or something.<grin>
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on August 08, 2020, 11:56:40 AM
Oklahoma Gov. Stitt thinks he got covid from hugging old friends.   I wonder if they got it from the Tulsa Trump rally.


Gov. Kevin Stitt contracted COVID-19 after hugging some friends from Tulsa who were visiting him, the governor said Thursday.

“I thought I got it down in Lawton because I was touring different facilities,” Stitt said in a brief interview at the state Health Department's new contact tracing center in Oklahoma City.

“But anyway, some of my buddies from — some older gentlemen from Tulsa came down to see me. They wanted to talk to me about a new ministry that they had in Tulsa between the police and the African American community and building bridges and so they came down to see me. I hadn’t seen them in a long time and broke my own rule, gave them all hugs. I’ve known them for years. And they ended up having it. So that’s how I got it.”

https://oklahoman.com/article/5668498/stitt-says-he-got-covid-19-from-tulsa-friends (https://oklahoman.com/article/5668498/stitt-says-he-got-covid-19-from-tulsa-friends)
Stitt announced on July 15 that he had tested positive a day earlier. He isolated himself for 14 days and said on July 27 that he had returned to work in his Capitol office.

The governor said Thursday, “Nobody that I came in contact with got it — my wife, my kids because I noticed the symptoms and was able to quarantine immediately. So that’s how it should work.”
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on August 08, 2020, 12:16:09 PM
Oklahoma Gov. Stitt thinks he got covid from hugging old friends...

“But anyway, some of my buddies from — some older gentlemen from Tulsa came down to see me. They wanted to talk to me about a new ministry that they had in Tulsa between the police and the African American community and building bridges and so they came down to see me. I hadn’t seen them in a long time and broke my own rule, gave them all hugs. I’ve known them for years. And they ended up having it. So that’s how I got it.”

as i said before we become complacent amongst close friends ,family ,familiar faces ..our guard drops momentarily..but that is all it takes..

my wife returned to work on monday , two of her colleagues become unwell in the week un seasonal symptoms both were went and got  tested both positive, well that was that my wife went into meltdown of we went to get tested we both came back negative but she has to return back on monday it really is a stressful situation never far in the back of your mind are you thinking what if , are you ...

situation here in turkey has seen an unforeseen spike in cases since last weekend another lockdown is imminent..
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ConligWX on August 09, 2020, 02:51:10 AM
Brian.

This is happening throughout the world, yet no one is actually learning from all these 2nd round of infections.

It amazes me that all the government's throughout the world and the WHO are totally incompetent to carry out a lockdown that is benefits the world rather than everyone's self indulged happiness to go on holiday or the beach.

Imagine if this virus was more fatal than it is.

We know new infections in countries that had no cases started  because of travel. Yet government's and the WHO turned a blind eye to this and still are.

As to complacency, yeah it's human nature.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on August 09, 2020, 03:28:40 AM
too easy wave the finger at governments  apart from those that continue to rebuke any professional advice ,end of the day each day is a learning curve for all in many ways .different countries have different problems, whats the population of your island not politically but north to south? istanbul has an estimated population of 18 million alone in probably in an area size of the whole of your island may be smaller . buried in that population are people that need to work too feed their families , pay the bills , pay the credit cards, pay the mortgages , pay the loans and whether we agree or not many of those will work in the tourist industry, food restaurant industry, leisure industry (sports,fitness etc) .
lockdowns can not be sustained for months on end , we had approximately 12 weeks of lockdowns and curfews many business in leisure , food , retail disappeared the ones that survived adapted to online methods but what we saw then the online market was just saturated in choice of identical items, food services..

i have few family  friends who have a family business  fish restaurant for 60 years it almost did not survive another few months of lockdowns would have just killed it off ..60 years gone in a hasty decision beyond there control..

 it is a difficult situation i have a sister in law who is a professional singer (she studied music at uni so she is not  just a karaoke bar singer but a trained singer,musician) she never worked for 4 months , began to ran out of money all outgoing nothing incoming, lived on the very basics of life not what we all became accustomed to have or doing doing day in day out when life is ok.that meant actually using things like electric,water etc only when necessary. the lockdowns can have a very adverse effect on your life if your means of employment is a part of restrictions.

i wouldnt choose or want to be in a government or any municipality position right now because difficult hard life decisions need to be made , you will please some and destroy others ..
as above each country has its own problems in how they manage the current situation and i think on the whole those fortunate to live in a low population country, island with no neighboring country borders then they have a greater chance of controlling the outbreak and sustain a reasonable lifestyle for the population..travel industry is a source of employment..

complacency yep so we are to blame or contribute  as much any other ?

ps the WHO look deeper they do more than what you may think look at past recent pandemics  , end of the day they dont decide whether you should lockdown or not ..
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on August 09, 2020, 04:13:52 AM
Quote
Brian.
This is happening throughout the world,
but its not
there are countries that are free of the virus in the population now, where life is normal (e.g my country) (apart from restrictions on international travel (i.e managed isolation etc )
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on August 09, 2020, 04:51:56 AM
Quote
Brian.
This is happening throughout the world,
but its not
there are countries that are free of the virus in the population now, where life is normal (e.g my country) (apart from restrictions on international travel (i.e managed isolation etc )

your very fortunate and long may it last but circumstances of countries are different very different in comparison to yours with a population of less than 5 million that in comparison to turkey with an estimated 82 million introduces a completely different situation in how its managed right across the board from employment  to food distribution. your nearest large neighbor australia highlights how difficult it can be to manage or control a densely populated city,region etc.. don’t misunderstand its good to hear new zealand is handling it with caution and humanity but scenarios are so different. like it or not air travel is an industry and source of employment that many have spent their lives in . my friends returned to new zealand last month and were full of appraisal for the quarantine accommodation new zealand provided unfortunately they were returning for a funeral which was took place some 5 weeks after their son passed away delays a mixture of finding flights from turkey to new zealand because the normal asia route was not a available so they flew via minsk to usa then a 7 day quarantine then onto new zealand with another 14 day quarantine..  we have too look deeper sometimes to get our head around of the actions or some governments, countries..
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: BigOkie on August 10, 2020, 10:23:47 AM
Oklahoma Gov. Stitt thinks he got covid from hugging old friends...

“But anyway, some of my buddies from — some older gentlemen from Tulsa came down to see me. They wanted to talk to me about a new ministry that they had in Tulsa between the police and the African American community and building bridges and so they came down to see me. I hadn’t seen them in a long time and broke my own rule, gave them all hugs. I’ve known them for years. And they ended up having it. So that’s how I got it.”

as i said before we become complacent amongst close friends ,family ,familiar faces ..our guard drops momentarily..but that is all it takes..

my wife returned to work on monday , two of her colleagues become unwell in the week un seasonal symptoms both were went and got  tested both positive, well that was that my wife went into meltdown of we went to get tested we both came back negative but she has to return back on monday it really is a stressful situation never far in the back of your mind are you thinking what if , are you ...

situation here in turkey has seen an unforeseen spike in cases since last weekend another lockdown is imminent..

My long time g/f works as a teacher in a daycare and has been working since the pandemic started.  Scares me to death but they are pretty careful about sanitation and temp checking and all that other stuff.  She's the only person I really hang around with now (we don't live together yet) but alas I have two co-morbs (T2DM and hypertension, both under control) so it scares her just as much.  If people would just wear masks.  I do whenever I go into any public facility.  I have for months, well before our city made them mandatory last month.

Workers like her (considered 'essential') should be getting hazard pay, IMO.  I'm lucky.  I was working from home before the pandemic started so I got a head start on how to configure for that.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on August 10, 2020, 10:54:37 AM
I will find out tonight what my district is planning. Rumor is DL. School starts Sept 8.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on August 11, 2020, 01:34:48 AM
The graph below shows evidence that city required mask wear works in Oklahoma. At least 13 cities in Oklahoma currently require it.   For my city, since required masks went into effect, it has declined from no. 8 to no. 12 city for total positive cases.  It will be interesting to see if being no. 12 can possibly be maintained after public schools and university start next week.  Around 20,000 college students are expected back.    Some locals think cases will increase so much that all classes will soon have to go back online.  Sports fans are wondering if all football games will have to be canceled.

Oklahoma is still coping okay with the virus situation.  It's starting to look like new cases as well as hospitalizations may have peaked last week and are trying to trend down.  The numbers in coming days may help confirm it.

(http://okie.world/photos/maskswork.png)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on August 11, 2020, 09:38:38 AM
Quote
Brian.
This is happening throughout the world,
but its not
there are countries that are free of the virus in the population now, where life is normal (e.g my country) (apart from restrictions on international travel (i.e managed isolation etc )

things do change from one day to another ....you face the same reality has us all sadly, containment and handling human movement ..lets hope this passes and is contained swiftly for you..

The four new cases were found in the same household in Auckland, but the source of the infections is not yet known.

In response, New Zealand's PM Jacinda Ardern announced that, as of noon on Wednesday, Auckland will move to "level 3" lockdown until midnight on Friday. This will mean everyone will be required to work from home apart from essential workers.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on August 11, 2020, 02:49:18 PM
yes, its like , next minute...
but as before we are going hard and early to stamp it out again
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on August 14, 2020, 10:48:51 PM
rt.live is an interesting website. It shows graphs and details by state of the reproduction level of the virus over time.
https://rt.live/ (https://rt.live/)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on August 15, 2020, 02:33:29 AM
This is good local news.  OSU has reported fewer than expected number of positive COVID-19 cases from students moving into on campus housing:

https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/breaking-osu-reports-22-positive-cases-while-testing-thousands-of-students-ahead-of-opening/article_84048296-de7f-11ea-841e-ff9a16486323.html#utm_source=stwnewspress.com&utm_campaign=%2Fcovid-19%2Fbreaking-osu-reports-22-positive-cases-while-testing-thousands-of-students-ahead-of-opening%2Farticle-84048296-de7f-11ea-841e-ff9a16486323.html%3Fmode%3Demail%26-dc%3D1597446361&utm_medium=auto%20alert%20email&utm_content=read%20more (https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/breaking-osu-reports-22-positive-cases-while-testing-thousands-of-students-ahead-of-opening/article_84048296-de7f-11ea-841e-ff9a16486323.html#utm_source=stwnewspress.com&utm_campaign=%2Fcovid-19%2Fbreaking-osu-reports-22-positive-cases-while-testing-thousands-of-students-ahead-of-opening%2Farticle-84048296-de7f-11ea-841e-ff9a16486323.html%3Fmode%3Demail%26-dc%3D1597446361&utm_medium=auto%20alert%20email&utm_content=read%20more)

Oklahoma State University is reporting that 22 returning students have tested positive for COVID-19. OSU is in the process of testing all students who will live on campus. The 22 students testing positive came from a pool of 3,049 test results.

So far, this number falls far below expectations. Stillwater Public Schools Superintendent Marc Moore, in discussing his district's report, said OSU had told him they expected anywhere from 5-8 percent positive.

The first official day of class for OSU on the Stillwater campus is Aug. 17.

In a release to employees, OSU called the results a "very low positivity rate."

"As was mentioned in the Employee Town Hall this week, OSU will be reporting weekly on positive cases associated with students, faculty and staff. While we are finalizing the details to begin publishing those statistics on our website, we wanted to inform you that students who were tested at move-in thus far are showing a very low positivity rate," the release reads. "Of the 3,049 students who were tested by University Health Services since the start of our move in process on Aug. 7, only 22 have tested positive, which is 0.72%.

"We know that as our students return to campus, the numbers will invariably go up, which is expected and something we have planned for over the last several months."


Mask enforcers: OSU expects students, faculty to report people not wearing masks — and there's no clear penalty:
https://www.ocolly.com/news/mask-enforcers-osu-expects-students-faculty-to-report-people-not-wearing-masks-and-theres-no/article_52a79bbc-dd89-11ea-841d-63499b46f414.html (https://www.ocolly.com/news/mask-enforcers-osu-expects-students-faculty-to-report-people-not-wearing-masks-and-theres-no/article_52a79bbc-dd89-11ea-841d-63499b46f414.html)

Concerns regarding Stillwater music festival continue to increase.
https://www.ocolly.com/news/concerns-regarding-stillwater-music-festival-continue-to-increase/article_5cff0024-dce8-11ea-b796-6fc19d23ec45.html#tncms-source=article-nav-next (http://"https://www.ocolly.com/news/concerns-regarding-stillwater-music-festival-continue-to-increase/article_5cff0024-dce8-11ea-b796-6fc19d23ec45.html#tncms-source=article-nav-next")
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on August 15, 2020, 08:34:45 AM
Folks need to get over the mask fantasy, they do nothing but cause anger and confrontation. If you'll notice the circled area on a package my friend opened the other day.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: BigOkie on August 15, 2020, 08:38:07 AM
Folks need to get over the mask fantasy, they do nothing but cause anger and confrontation. If you'll notice the circled area on a package my friend opened the other day.
Nobody to my knowledge ever suggested they 'eliminate' the risk of contracting disease. They sure as hell reduce it though. Since my city mandated masks, our county has seen a reduction in the seven day rolling average. But believe what you want I guess. I'll continue to wear mine when I'm out in public.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on August 15, 2020, 10:05:58 AM
You virtue signal all you want and be sure to toe the line - but don't come in my yard or get in my face expecting me to adopt the same level of uninformed stupidity.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on August 15, 2020, 11:37:03 AM
You virtue signal all you want and be sure to toe the line - but don't come in my yard or get in my face expecting me to adopt the same level of uninformed stupidity.
I'm a mask-wearer and I'm taking your broad inference of yours personally, that you're basically calling me stupid for wearing a mask.  I would debate the pros and cons of wearing a mask or maybe even call *you* names but I can see that you appear to be immovable with your feet encased solidly in buckets of anti-masker cement...I just hope you don't fall in the river.

As for your little picture with the red circle...  It doesn't state anywhere on the label anything about "aerosoled droplets" that can contain one or more COVID-19 virions.  It's not mentioned probably because the manufacture would have to do intensive testing to be able to add that to the label and the demand for masks is so large that rather than halt production for label approval they're putting them out (in currently labeled bags).

But guess what, those aerosoled droplets are many, many times larger than a bacteria cell or a smoke particle which the label states the masks having a 95% efficiency at stopping.  With that information a logical person who doesn't have dementia or some type of entitlement delusion can see that the masks can be and *are* very effective in hindering the spread of the virus.

There are rights and freedoms to fight and die for...the issue of mask wearing is not one of those.  And, btw, stay out of my yard, too.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: BigOkie on August 15, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
You virtue signal all you want and be sure to toe the line - but don't come in my yard or get in my face expecting me to adopt the same level of uninformed stupidity.
Wow. Snowflake much? Ignore the science at your peril. I've been on these forums over 10 years and always respected your opinion. My mistake. Have a nice day.

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Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on August 15, 2020, 11:57:23 AM
Don't treat COVID19 as a thoroughly understood pathogen.  No matter what you think, there's good reason to believe that it's wrong.

I've maintained from the outset of this COVID19 debacle that we don't know what the samhill we're doing, and to treat the 'science' as definitive is to commit yourself to backtracking at some point in the future.  Figures lie and liars figure in order to support whatever viewpoint, i.e. bias, they started out with.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: BigOkie on August 15, 2020, 12:04:41 PM
Don't treat COVID19 as a thoroughly understood pathogen.  No matter what you think, there's good reason to believe that it's wrong.

I've maintained from the outset of this COVID19 debacle that we don't know what the samhill we're doing, and to treat the 'science' as definitive is to commit yourself to backtracking at some point in the future.  Figures lie and liars figure in order to support whatever viewpoint, i.e. bias, they started out with.

True, but pathogens all do the same thing.  They spread via droplets, human contact, blood contact, whatever.  This one may not be understood very well yet by the very nature of it's newness to science, but it spreads in the same manner that many common pathogens do.  That much is known.

I'm not quite sure what 'virtue signaling' is, but I listen to scientists when they say wearing a mask helps.  I know it doesn't help much in keeping the wearer from infection, but if someone is asymptomatic and wearing a mask, that's a good thing.  Not everyone presents symptoms.  I have two co-morbidities (T2DM, and hypertension) and sure others have them as well, so I'm trying to be as responsible as I can.  If that means me wearing a mask for the duration of a visit to a store or what have you, then so be it.  Seeing all these people confronting others for either wearing masks or not wanting to wear a mandated mask in some facility tells me all I need to know about our civilization right now.

Stay informed.  Listen to science.  Listen to doctors.

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.".  Not from me, from Neal deGrasse Tyson.  He's not wrong.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on August 15, 2020, 12:15:09 PM
...
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.".  Not from me, from Neal deGrasse Tyson.  He's not wrong.
Almost true of the physical sciences.  Patently false with respect to the softer sciences.  Medicine is protean and evolving, which constantly invalidates the 'science' of the past.  Oh, BTW, I AM an MD with over half a century of experience.  I trained for a while just down the street from the CDC after graduating from JHU School of Medicine where a 'History of Medicine' course opened my eyes about medical knowledge's evanescence.  How medicine is practiced today is vastly different than it will be done in the future.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on August 15, 2020, 12:49:43 PM
@Stevebrtx if you have no background in science then don't preach or jump on viewpoints ,the best thing you can do instead of reading google searched based documents and when you read them thinking you know whats right or wrong or shoving humanitarian gestures back up someones ass . if you are unconvinced on the seriousness of this virus then get yourself off to the hospital and visit a patient recovering from the virus having come out of ICU  ol your viewpoint will vastly change if not then best we leave you to a miserable existence of don't give a dam  f*** about anyone else..  .

I said way back in January " the economy " will dictate how countries deal and handle this virus once it spreads. what this pandemic highlighted cracks in so called strong economies , weakness is business that had no contingency means , highlighted how business were not sustainable under various scenarios ...
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on August 15, 2020, 01:33:16 PM
Weather34, here's a simple yes or no question: If in fact I do have a science background with degrees from prestigious universities and a documented career, would you now believe me?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on August 15, 2020, 01:39:31 PM
Weather34, here's a simple yes or no question: If in fact I do have a science background with degrees from prestigious universities and a documented career, would you now believe me?

well you certainly don’t portray it you portray a rather self righteousness dont give a dam about anyone else. so if you have a background in science then show some educational viewpoints as opposed too your current dont give a dam viewpoint and this viewpoint wearing a mask causes anger well perhaps your in that mindset , i dont view it as anger and neither do i see others around me , perhaps frustrations of discomfort in the heat  but not anger and certainly not prejudice against anyone not wearing ....
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on August 15, 2020, 01:57:29 PM
That wasn't a yes or no answer, that's all I asked for.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on August 15, 2020, 02:11:42 PM
If in fact I do have a science background with degrees from prestigious universities and a documented career, would you now believe me?

If that is the case, rather than just a deflecting, hypothetical question, then it sure as hell wasn't in virology or any related discipline or you would know better. (Speaking as a PhD biochemist with a career in disease control and drug discovery.)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on August 15, 2020, 02:44:46 PM
It's time for this to be said, because it's the right thing to do. I've mostly sat back and watched this parade pass by with some amazement and a lot of distress. The primary thing that distresses me is what a collective bunch of whiny little snowflakes we've become regarding this subject. Most of us are products of the Greatest Generation, did we learn nothing from them? What ever happened to critical thinking, do we just fall in line like good little sheeple at the first call of a threat? Go back and look at who and what Americans are and how we react and persevere in the face of a threat.

In the early 20th century we fought and won a world war while at the same time facing the Spanish Flu pandemic which was a vastly more lethal killer than this current virus - but we didn't even consider shutting down our economy. We rebuilt and smacked right into the stock market crash of 1929, the Dust Bowl and the Great Depression, but as Americans we continued on and rebuilt. Then, a two front world war and we fought our way through to win and rebuild our economy and the American lifestyle even greater than before. Then the cold war and threat of a nuclear war. The Korean conflict had less impact on us, we continued on. Next Viet Nam and the unrest of the 60's, but we always looked to the horizon without fear and trepidation because we knew we were winners. We eventually faced down the enemy in the cold war and celebrated, moving on to a better tomorrow, secure in the knowledge we are Americans and we would win - we've faced and won each of the battles of circumstance that have come our way.

It's not the American way to crawl under a desk in the fetal position when confronted with something shocking and potentially scary, it never has been - at least until now when we've allowed ourselves to be panicked into crawling under the desk by bogus numbers generated by computer models, by inflated unsupported numbers coming out of testing labs and other suspect sources, not the least in the main stream media. When did we become the millennial snowflake generation cowering in fear over an imagined adversary? And, as for this new tactic of mask shaming me for not wearing one, you're wasting your time - it goes nowhere with me. If it's so dangerous to be around people with no masks, then you should stay home, no one forced you to come near me, you've placed yourself in harms way, no one but you is to blame. I certainly don't run around hugging and kissing people. For the rest of us, we have a life to live and things to accomplish that sitting inside a bubble watching netflix won't get done.

Look around, businesses and lives are being destroyed by this lemmings stampede to nowhere. Some small businesses are the life's work and dream of people and now they're gone, and for the imaginary safety of some cloth masks and anti-social distancing? What is the price of this mythological safety we're all being forced to dance to - certainly our freedom as we once knew it is already gone. Each life is precious, but people die every day from a thousand other causes. Now we're told that even if you show up mangled beyond recognition from a car accident but showing positive for the virus it's a covid death and for that we've sacrificed our freedom for some imagined safety?

I'm seventy seven with asthma and  I have a tactical belt with holster normally used for a small pistol which now contains my compulsory compassion mask and my emergency inhaler. I strap them on just before entering a business because I can't wear the mask for very long before I notice the reduced oxygen intake and the re-breathed carbon dioxide caused by the mask may force me to use the inhaler, imagine trying to explain that to some mask nazi at the grocery store. Besides losing my sense of humor, I've lost my dignity and my sense of community. And, mostly I've lost my faith in my generation who should know better than to be cowed by this sham. I have little faith in the millennial generation to carry on the traditions of America as laid out by the Constitution. I've believed we, the older generation, should continue on a logical course praying the next generation after the snowflakes will be up to the task and that America will survive until then. As Ronald Reagan said "freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction" - are we at that tipping point, driven by something as banal as a virus?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on August 15, 2020, 04:05:21 PM
you just don't get it
its not about just you, everyone is in this together. Be kind.
the virus is the enemy and people are the solution
break the chain of transmission
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on August 15, 2020, 04:54:46 PM
On the down side, OSU reports 23 positive COVID-19 cases from sorority:

According to the university, officials learned of the cases Friday night.

"Last night OSU officials learned of 23 positive COVID cases in an off-campus sorority house. The rapid antigen testing was performed at an off-campus health care facility. Due to the nature of this situation, the entire chapter house is in isolation or quarantine and will be prohibited from leaving the facility," a university press release reads. "One member of the sorority who lives elsewhere is among those who tested positive and will also remain in isolation. All involved are currently being monitored by OSU and Payne County Health Department and contact tracing is being conducted to further protect the campus community. The services of a third-party contractor have been enlisted to disinfect the facility and will do so again after the two-week isolation and quarantine period.

https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/breaking-osu-reports-23-positive-covid-19-cases-from-sorority/article_f87a9364-df32-11ea-bc63-eb4dc57de8c7.html (http://"https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/breaking-osu-reports-23-positive-covid-19-cases-from-sorority/article_f87a9364-df32-11ea-bc63-eb4dc57de8c7.html")
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on August 15, 2020, 04:57:00 PM
For those who value penetrating intellect, ascerbic wit, and a validated futurist's view, google George Gilder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Gilder).  He is an unabashed self-promoter, but then he has every reason to be.  His Daily Prophecy (https://gilderpress.com/category/gilders-daily-prophecy/) is eye-opening.

I apologize in advance if you are offended by him.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on August 20, 2020, 04:47:37 AM
Following many customers not masking up or taking other precautions while partying on the strip this past weekend, new emergency bar rules now in effect in Stillwater.  No more dancing allowed, so people now have to go outside of city limits to a nearby rural nightclub called Tumbleweed for that. But for this weekend one of the headliner singers to perform there, Parker McCollum, had to cancel and quarantine, because he came down with it.  After he could not taste or smell, he went to get tested.

The mayor of Stillwater opposes the country music festival Tumbleweed is putting on this weekend and wished the county commissioners could do something about it.  He said, "I don’t think it's time to move back to crowded music festivals at this point.  There’s a reason why you’re not seeing those virtually anywhere else.”  Tumbleweed is where famous country singer Garth Brooks worked as a bouncer and found his first wife.

COVID-19 is something not to be taken lightly. Whether young or old, you don't know what it will be like. In June, a young man in Stillwater came down with it real bad after working in a bar.  He still has lingering effects from it:  https://www.ocolly.com/news/my-experience-with-covid-19/article_90771cf6-dce9-11ea-8258-fbfc393744ed.html

(http://okie.world/photos/stwbarrules.jpg)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on August 20, 2020, 06:13:40 AM
i hope this image does not disturb anybody amongst others we see these all over the place ..on average a healthy human being takes 12 breaths per minute for natural oxygen intake .if the virus becomes aggressive in your body and weakens you , you will struggle without this treatment could last 10 days or more. the friends i have spoken too who have been through this all make the statement just because your out of ICU it aint over . i get it some will jump and say will say same as being in intensive care for any treatment but make no mistake 9 months ago this was not an everyday obstacle you had to avoid,prevent . unfortunately cases here in turkey are climbing again after a relatively stable period much of this rise in cases is down to gatherings its peak holiday period the weather hot and ideal for vacation. has for schools opening the whole thing is in turmoil and changes daily based on active new cases . we are now seeing whole families becoming infected generally ignited by one member of the family.. these are tough times in adapting and the more you challenge the changes in ways the harder it becomes..

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on August 20, 2020, 03:08:13 PM
our small surge from having no virus in the community (somehow has come across the border) is now coming back under control (only 5 new cases yesterday, and all cases , which peaked at 18 in one day,  are linked as a cluster too) and so hopefully we will come back down out of a regional only level 3 lockdown (ie click and collect still allowed etc) by monday.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on August 28, 2020, 08:18:35 PM
Renewed Spiking In Stillwater.  Stillwater back to its June peak of no. 8 city for cases in Oklahoma

Novel coronavirus cases in Stillwater and Payne County continued to increase this week, with a spike of 40 new cases countywide on Thursday, according to the Oklahoma State Department of Health.

Stillwater accounted for the vast majority with 37 new cases, pushing it to 8th in the state for cumulative cases.

The Payne County Health Department reported that approximately 70% of the new cases are in people 18-35 years old.

Stillwater City Manager Norman McNickle said he worries about how the spike among younger people could still affect medically vulnerable populations.

“If you think about it, the 18-24 year olds are often the ones waiting tables, stocking shelves and working other customer service roles,” he said Thursday in a City of Stillwater release. “While they are often not symptomatic, this makes it more likely they can spread the virus to more people.”

Stillwater Medical Center has reported it is feeling pressure in staffing due to an overall high number of patients, McNickle reported.

The hospital later clarified that its high census numbers are due to other illnesses. COVID-19 patients account for less than 2% of the overall patients.

Payne County entered the orange zone of the Oklahoma State Department of Health’s alert system on Friday, when the health department reported average new infections reached 15.23 per 100,000.
More at:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/payne-county-sees-40-new-covid-19-cases/article_89a52698-8d42-5393-bb2f-132ff0ba77ba.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/payne-county-sees-40-new-covid-19-cases/article_89a52698-8d42-5393-bb2f-132ff0ba77ba.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on August 28, 2020, 11:53:20 PM
I missed two doctor appointments because I had some type of a cold/allergy/low-grade-fever/etc.,.   I went and had a COVID test done, the regular non-rapid type of test.  But, it knocked me out of an orthopedic doctor appointment which was rescheduled for the next week.  It also knocked me out of a cardiology appointment which is now rescheduled for.....May 21st.<sigh>   The test came back negative...I got the results about an hour after my cardiology appointment was supposed to be.  Oh well. 

Well, the orthopedic appointment ended up with having an MRI and I'm slated for surgery next Friday for a large-to-massive rotator-cuff tear...two tendons.  Anyhow, the surgery center where this will take place has a rule that you have to have a COVID test within 5 days of the operation.  I dunno, this may be standard everywhere...????  Anyhow, talking with the nurse on the phone when they had to reschedule the surgery I told her the surgery center had not contacted me about the COVID test.  The nurse told me that looking at my BMI that they *might* not require me to have the test.  I'm just barely overweight for my height, definitely not a Mr. Universe or anything.  But, it sounds like body-mass-index might be something that affects surgeries and COVID testing.  I understand that obesity has been cited as being a bad thing to have in regards to overcoming the virus.  Just something I stumbled upon that I thought I'd share.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: DRoberts on August 29, 2020, 11:10:35 AM
Good luck with that surgery!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on August 29, 2020, 12:27:15 PM
https://www.kcrg.com/2020/08/29/state-is-under-reporting-the-positive-rate-of-covid-19-tests/ (https://www.kcrg.com/2020/08/29/state-is-under-reporting-the-positive-rate-of-covid-19-tests/)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on August 29, 2020, 04:03:15 PM
take your foot of the brake and this virus  quickly takes hold again as its very contagious (and people don't have any immunity so they can spread it easily with out even realising (hence why wearing masks is now a world wide thing..even here we now our wearing them).
e.g
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/1200-students-test-positive-covid-19-major-university/story?id=72699871&cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_hero_hed
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on August 29, 2020, 06:44:00 PM
Quote
... you have to have a COVID test within 5 days of the operation.
Certainly in my UK district it is the same.
I was required to have to have one just for the short experience of a having camera where you don't normally get to see  :shock:

Karma - as a young person the beteljuice was a pain in the bum - now older, has one  :-(
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on September 06, 2020, 01:10:02 AM
Unsurprisingly, college towns in America are cracking the current top 20 list for towns with most increased COVID-19 cases with Stillwater no. 13.   But the no. 1 town isn't a college town.  It's the Muskogee, Oklahoma area.  There has been a big outbreak in a women's prison:  https://oklahoman.com/article/5670765/muskogee-area-becomes-a-top-us-hot-spot-because-of-infections-at-prison?ocid=uxbndlbing (https://oklahoman.com/article/5670765/muskogee-area-becomes-a-top-us-hot-spot-because-of-infections-at-prison?ocid=uxbndlbing)

What the mayor of Stillwater thinks of the current local COVID situation.  The point made in the 2nd paragraph, I think, is very important:

Local Update
As you know, our community is seeing a large spike in COVID cases. Stillwater currently has 398 active cases, more than double the peak we saw in late June. As we saw then, the large majority of these cases are in the 18-35 year old age group. So far, there has not been a corresponding surge in hospitalizations. The City is in close contact with Payne County Health and Stillwater Medical to track the situation and determine if further action is warranted.

The sharp rise in cases is very concerning, and we must work together as a community to slow the spread. So far, contact tracing shows that these cases cannot be connected to any one activity,  event, or type of business. The cases are also not just in college students. Many of the positive cases are among younger adults who are very socially active and are taking few of the recommended precautions against the spread of disease.

It’s disappointing that so many of our neighbors refuse to take the situation seriously. Yes, many of them will never be seriously ill, but such carelessness has a huge effect on our community. Public schools cannot meet together for class. Non-profits have had to cancel fundraising events. Activities across the board have been limited or shut down. These decisions are necessary because the more the disease spreads in Stillwater, the more likely it is for vulnerable people to be infected, with far more serious consequences. 

Overall, individuals and businesses in our community have been doing a very good job with masks, limiting interactions, and operating safely. I am aware of the White House reports that indicate additional restrictions should be implemented statewide and in our local area. Currently, I’m not sure that it’s worthwhile for the City of Stillwater to adopt these guidelines alone, but I continue to talk with other state mayors and the Governor’s office to push for widespread action in accordance with Federal advice.
 
No matter what rules or regulations are in place, it is up to each one of us to make the right choices to protect ourselves and each other. Please wear your mask, wash your hands, and watch your distance. Avoid large gatherings. Get tested if you feel sick, if you’ve been in contact with a positive case, or if you’ve been out and about a lot recently. Above all, please recognize that you are part of a community, and we are all counting on you to do your part to keep the rest of us safe.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on September 12, 2020, 09:48:03 PM
survived surgery.1.5hr operation turned into 3hr.

stay safe.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jasiu on September 12, 2020, 11:00:58 PM
survived surgery.1.5hr operation turned into 3hr.

stay safe.

Glad to hear!  [tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: TraderGary on September 13, 2020, 01:08:17 AM
survived surgery.1.5hr operation turned into 3hr.

stay safe.

 [tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on September 13, 2020, 05:27:24 AM
survived surgery.1.5hr operation turned into 3hr.

stay safe.
Good news!
Now of course you do know your anny will need maintenance this week. :-)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on September 15, 2020, 03:27:24 AM
That's unfortunate.  Stillwater school sports games all canceled.   Yet, OSU still scheduled to play Tulsa in Stillwater this Saturday.  Doesn't seem fair. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/stillwater-schools-calls-off-sports-games-out-of-coronavirus-concerns/ar-BB192vc2?ocid=msedgdhp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/stillwater-schools-calls-off-sports-games-out-of-coronavirus-concerns/ar-BB192vc2?ocid=msedgdhp)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on September 15, 2020, 05:07:03 PM
That's unfortunate.  Stillwater school sports games all canceled.   Yet, OSU still scheduled to play Tulsa in Stillwater this Saturday.  Doesn't seem fair. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/stillwater-schools-calls-off-sports-games-out-of-coronavirus-concerns/ar-BB192vc2?ocid=msedgdhp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/stillwater-schools-calls-off-sports-games-out-of-coronavirus-concerns/ar-BB192vc2?ocid=msedgdhp)
$$$$$$$$
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on September 15, 2020, 05:22:02 PM
That's unfortunate.  Stillwater school sports games all canceled.   Yet, OSU still scheduled to play Tulsa in Stillwater this Saturday.  Doesn't seem fair. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/stillwater-schools-calls-off-sports-games-out-of-coronavirus-concerns/ar-BB192vc2?ocid=msedgdhp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/stillwater-schools-calls-off-sports-games-out-of-coronavirus-concerns/ar-BB192vc2?ocid=msedgdhp)
$$$$$$$$
You betcha. Covid is rendered inert by money, politics, and rioting.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on September 15, 2020, 09:46:11 PM
Old school district.  Distance learning only.

New School-JH kids at school with masks. Some virtual.
                   HS kids at school every other day-with masks.
                   Block schedule. working well so far.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on September 16, 2020, 02:25:31 AM
That's unfortunate.  Stillwater school sports games all canceled.   Yet, OSU still scheduled to play Tulsa in Stillwater this Saturday.  Doesn't seem fair. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/stillwater-schools-calls-off-sports-games-out-of-coronavirus-concerns/ar-BB192vc2?ocid=msedgdhp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/stillwater-schools-calls-off-sports-games-out-of-coronavirus-concerns/ar-BB192vc2?ocid=msedgdhp)
$$$$$$$$
You betcha. Covid is rendered inert by money, politics, and rioting.

Yep, point well taken.  No doubt, the Stillwater High School football coach is paid just a very tiny, tiny as much as the Oklahoma State University football coach.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on September 16, 2020, 02:34:25 AM
Local Update From Stillwater Mayor Will Joyce - MYTHBUSTERS EDITION: 

-"Only college kids are getting COVID in Stillwater. It's not a risk for the rest of us."

Not true. Yes, the highest portion of cases in Stillwater is among the 18-35 age range. But more than 50% of the population of Stillwater is 18-35. Our median age in Stillwater is 24 years old. The age group of people getting COVID is the same age range who work in offices with you, teach in local schools, serve in restaurants, and volunteer at your church. There is not a separate group of "college kids" in Stillwater that doesn't come in contact with the rest of the community. This is a small city--we all interact together, and we are all at risk for catching contagious diseases from each other.

-"If I want to take the risk of going to a large gathering/not wearing a mask/putting my mouth on the water fountain spout, my decision only affects me."

Not true. COVID-19 is a highly contagious disease. According to the state epidemiologist, Payne County has a very high rate of contagion--that is, the number of people infected by each positive case. We have one of the highest per capita infection rates in the country. That's happening because people who don't realize they are carrying the virus are going out and interacting with lots of other people in lots of places. You are not just taking a personal risk. You are putting other people at risk. And you have no idea how vulnerable those other people are. So even if you're healthy, the person you give it to might not be.

-"Hospitalization numbers aren't very high. No one in my family/at my office/in my school has COVID. We should be able to return to normal."

We have been taking precautions against COVID as a community for six months. Overall, Stillwater has been very proactive in keeping the virus at bay. That's likely part of the reason we've seen relative success in avoiding more serious ramifications. If the precautions being taken are helping, and the virus is still out there, it does not make sense to stop taking those precautions.

I know we are all tired of this pandemic and tired of having to disrupt our lives for the good of the community as a whole. Everyone has lost something during this time. People have lost their jobs and their businesses. Kids are missing their classrooms. Athletes are missing games. Weddings have been postponed. And over 900 Oklahomans have lost their lives because of this virus.

We are all making sacrifices, and we should all recognize and value what each member of our community has lost. When we understand that this is a COMMUNITY-WIDE problem, we will also realize it requires a COMMUNITY-WIDE solution. Each and every one of us must commit to reducing the spread of COVID-19. Wear your mask, avoid crowds, maintain physical distance from others, wash your hands. Please be willing to make these personal sacrifices for the good of your neighbors.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on September 16, 2020, 07:42:16 AM
Here (https://gilderpress.com/category/gilders-daily-prophecy/) is a brilliant counterbalancing albeit self-promoting genius with an excellent track record.  Ignore him at your and America's peril.  Oh, and BTW, bad data and flawed models still inform bad decisions.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on September 16, 2020, 02:05:47 PM
@gwwilk
Quote
The most important investment story from day to day is still the devastating economic shutdown in the face of a routine medical event. An event that has not even changed the fact that 2020 is one of the lowest years for all-cause deaths in my 80-year lifetime
a routine medical event?
200,000 dead and still 1000 a day dying in the USA with social distancing and mask use, is not a routine medical event
and you do realise that there is mitigation in use all around the world (i.e which lowers the death from the virus)?
(and to quote President Trump , if nothing was done then millions would have died...but no country was going to do nothing..even Sweden mitagation (the easiest is simply social distancing and washing your hands) was voluntary but was still done by the population out of common sense
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on September 18, 2020, 02:48:04 AM
Here (https://gilderpress.com/category/gilders-daily-prophecy/) is a brilliant counterbalancing albeit self-promoting genius with an excellent track record.  Ignore him at your and America's peril.  Oh, and BTW, bad data and flawed models still inform bad decisions.

But uh, oh, the reality is that COVID-19 hospitalizations at the Stillwater Regional Hospital has doubled to 8 as of September 17, 2020. Fortunately,, though, only two are in ICU.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on September 18, 2020, 08:40:58 AM
survived surgery.1.5hr operation turned into 3hr.

stay safe.
Good news!
Now of course you do know your anny will need maintenance this week. :-)
:lol: you're probably right!!!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on September 18, 2020, 09:20:00 AM
Here (https://gilderpress.com/category/gilders-daily-prophecy/) is a brilliant counterbalancing albeit self-promoting genius with an excellent track record.  Ignore him at your and America's peril.  Oh, and BTW, bad data and flawed models still inform bad decisions.

But uh, oh, the reality is that COVID-19 hospitalizations at the Stillwater Regional Hospital has doubled to 8 as of September 17, 2020. Fortunately,, though, only two are in ICU.
OK. ](*,)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: AWL on September 18, 2020, 10:51:11 AM
  A month or so ago my granddaughter, who we have had custody of since birth, came down with a 102° fever and cough. Oh Lord, we have covid-19 in the house.....we are all gonna die...call lawyer and get affairs in order. This rocked on for a couple of days waiting on the dreaded "positive" result. Well it came back negative and we breathed a sigh of relief since the wife has COPD and I have CLL we lived to see another newscast reminding us of how lucky we had been. Having raised children now for what seems my entire life we weren't terribly concerned about the 102° fever though we were watchful. Under 'normal' circumstances we would have taken her in to our Doctor with a ongoing fever but we didn't due to this covid-19 fear that had been beaten into out heads.
  All turned out OK as she improved after a few days but the moral of this story is don't fall for the covid-19 trap. I am so glad she didn't have something much more serious because we did not act as we would have normally acted in the past and gotten her on to the Doc. Be careful of peeking out from behind closed curtains and reacting(not reacting) to the day-to-day life events solely on covid fears. Only know of two people who have even had this crap and it was described as a 'cold' and not even a bad 'cold' at that. Did not pass it on to even one other person in houses full of family.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on September 18, 2020, 12:56:58 PM
I'm glad your granddaughter's situation turned out well for her.  I agree that if you have something that you need to see a doctor about then by all means see a doctor.  But, I don't think the families of the nearly 200k USA COVID-19 patients that have died would consider it just a "cold", though.  The possible millions of people that have long-term health issues after "surviving" COVID-19 probably won't refer to it as a "cold", either.

  A month or so ago my granddaughter, who we have had custody of since birth, came down with a 102° fever and cough. Oh Lord, we have covid-19 in the house.....we are all gonna die...call lawyer and get affairs in order. This rocked on for a couple of days waiting on the dreaded "positive" result. Well it came back negative and we breathed a sigh of relief since the wife has COPD and I have CLL we lived to see another newscast reminding us of how lucky we had been. Having raised children now for what seems my entire life we weren't terribly concerned about the 102° fever though we were watchful. Under 'normal' circumstances we would have taken her in to our Doctor with a ongoing fever but we didn't due to this covid-19 fear that had been beaten into out heads.
  All turned out OK as she improved after a few days but the moral of this story is don't fall for the covid-19 trap. I am so glad she didn't have something much more serious because we did not act as we would have normally acted in the past and gotten her on to the Doc. Be careful of peeking out from behind closed curtains and reacting(not reacting) to the day-to-day life events solely on covid fears. Only know of two people who have even had this crap and it was described as a 'cold' and not even a bad 'cold' at that. Did not pass it on to even one other person in houses full of family.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on September 18, 2020, 06:26:06 PM
I see that positivity and case numbers are going up again in many places in the USA , linked to college /University coming back
there is going to be another 100,000 deaths (on top of the 200,000 to date) by end of the year going by models projections used by the White House ( which have actually under predicted the deaths so far for every projection)..this will happen at the current 1000 a day deaths in the USA ...increased mask use by the public is predicted to decrease that by a significant amount.
I am surprised to see people on this forum and this thread basiclly still calling it a hoax
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on September 19, 2020, 07:57:06 AM
For the first time we have decided to apply the mitigation techniques designed to control STD's and extremely virulent, highly contagious, often fatal, and easily identifiable diseases to a somewhat more virulent, rarely fatal strain of a common cold virus.  We haven't applied these techniques to other such viruses, such as the influenza viruses, and for good reason.

This epidemic has become a political football despite all assertions to the contrary.  And this (http://www.tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?p=5446#p5446) is as apolitical as I can get on the subject.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: BeaverMeadow on September 19, 2020, 08:49:05 AM
Some perspective comparing Covid-19 to our annual influenza death rates--


U.S. Covid-19 deaths as of today: 198,603 and projected to reach 300,000 by the end of the year.

vs:

https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/cdc-us-flu-deaths-winter/

CDC: 80,000 people died of flu last winter in U.S., highest death toll in 40 years...

...."In recent years, flu-related deaths have ranged from about 12,000 to — in the worst year — 56,000, according to the CDC.

Last fall and winter, the U.S. went through one of the most severe flu seasons in recent memory. It was driven by a kind of flu that tends to put more people in the hospital and cause more deaths, particularly among young children and the elderly.

The season peaked in early February. It was mostly over by the end of March, although some flu continued to circulate.
Making a bad year worse, the flu vaccine didn’t work very well.....


But don't worry, Covid-19  is going away (someday) so let's all get together in large indoor spaces without masks.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on September 19, 2020, 02:51:14 PM
@gwwilk
do you not see that even with mitagation in use like social distancing, encouraging people to wash their hands, wear masks, the Covid 19 virus has still killed 200,000 people in the USA and another 100,000 are projected to die by the end of the year and yet here you are still trying to downplay it?
(and if more people took it seriously then the death toll would be lower)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on September 19, 2020, 03:19:15 PM
@gwwilk
do you not see that even with mitagation in use like social distancing, encouraging people to wash their hands, wear masks, the Covid 19 virus has still killed 200,000 people in the USA and another 100,000 are projected to die by the end of the year and yet here you are still trying to downplay it?

Assertions such as these aren't supported by hard facts.  When the CDC declared that anyone with a positive COVID-19 test who dies has to be counted as a 'COVID-19 death', all reason went out the window.  The models are flawed by similar biases so their predictions aren't aren't and haven't been reliable either.

Quote
(and if more people took it seriously then the death toll would be lower)

This is wildly speculative at best.  At its worst it's political mayhem.

To see a great example of mitigation fatigue, look at the stands in the OSU/Tulsa football game today.  Do you care to predict how many deaths will result from this wantonly social behavior?
 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on September 19, 2020, 04:13:41 PM
Do you at least accept that the Weekly number of deaths (from all causes) (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm#dashboard) 'threshold for excess deaths' has been surpassed every week since W/E 28 Mar 2020 - and to do nothing would be at least irresponsible if not actually negligent and immoral ?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on September 19, 2020, 04:45:32 PM
This epidemic has become a political football despite all assertions to the contrary.
Absolutely....til Nov.4th, then Covid will be shoved to the back burner so the "rigged election" witch hunt can begin. And I'm sure that just for starters.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on September 19, 2020, 05:14:48 PM
@beteljuice:  I hold your scripting skills in high regard!

Do you at least accept that the Weekly number of deaths (from all causes) (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm#dashboard) 'threshold for excess deaths' has been surpassed every week since W/E 28 Mar 2020

A 'gotcha' question in the best press conference tradition!  I think this number is accurate.  So, yes.

Quote
- and to do nothing would be at least irresponsible if not actually negligent and immoral ?

The evidence that doing the 'something' that's being done is 'something' that is useful is far from conclusive.  So, no.  Protecting the most vulnerable is a better approach which is moral and not negligent.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on September 21, 2020, 01:35:47 AM
@beteljuice:  I hold your scripting skills in high regard!

Do you at least accept that the Weekly number of deaths (from all causes) (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm#dashboard) 'threshold for excess deaths' has been surpassed every week since W/E 28 Mar 2020

A 'gotcha' question in the best press conference tradition!  I think this number is accurate.  So, yes.

Quote
- and to do nothing would be at least irresponsible if not actually negligent and immoral ?

The evidence that doing the 'something' that's being done is 'something' that is useful is far from conclusive.  So, no.  Protecting the most vulnerable is a better approach which is moral and not negligent.

Right, the most vulnerable need protected better somehow.  This 28 year old man with covid is very sick in the hospital in Oklahoma City.  It didn't help he has diabetes and is overweight:  https://kfor.com/health/coronavirus/28-year-old-moore-man-battling-covid-19-texts-his-mom-thank-you-for-everything-before-going-into-coma/ (https://kfor.com/health/coronavirus/28-year-old-moore-man-battling-covid-19-texts-his-mom-thank-you-for-everything-before-going-into-coma/)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on September 21, 2020, 03:11:25 PM
Quote
Protecting the most vulnerable is a better approach which is moral and not negligent.
which is done by everyone doing there part (via mitigation)
otherwise the only solution is to ship them all off to an offshore island
or are you saying let it run rampant in the rest of the population to build up herd immunity and cut off this part of the population (and the care workers) from their family and friends completely?. Sweden tried a form of that and their death toll is horrendous compared to neighbouring countries. Is that what you are proposing?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on September 21, 2020, 07:25:46 PM
Quote
Protecting the most vulnerable is a better approach which is moral and not negligent.
which is done by everyone doing there part (via mitigation)
...cut off this part of the population (and the care workers) from their family and friends completely?...
That's actually what is being done now to some extent.  My 90 y/o brother-in-law was hospitalized last month for several days after a fall resulted in a C-5 spinal fracture.  From there he went to a rehabilitation facility for a week or so.  In both facilities he was allowed NO visitors, only phone calls.  He's back home temporarily now.  I see my sister and him several times a week.  Because of this I'm very cautious about where I go, I always wear a mask, and I always sanitize my hands after I open my car door before I get aboard it.  Because he's now dependent on a walker and has other care needs, he's moving to an excellent assisted-living facility later this week where he will also be in a total lockdown, i.e. no visitors, for two weeks.

I agree that there are no easy answers.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on September 22, 2020, 09:57:14 AM
One thing I've done to boost my immune system is quercetin phytosome which is 20 times more absorbable than regular quercetin and zinc picolinate, bisglycinate or Life Extension OptiZinc®.  The problem with many supplements they don't absorb past the gut barrier.
Thorne Research has the patent on quercetin phytosome, best price I found was through MD Supplies out of Florida. Fast shipping too comes from the Thorne warehouse in SC.

Quercetin is a zinc ionophore allowing zinc into the virus and disrupting replication.  This is a prophylatic being recommended by many doctors.

My daily regiment is 250mg quercetin phytosome x3 and zinc bisglycinate 30mg daily along with vitamin D, C, bromelain, and bilberry.

I was exposed to the virus through friends and never came up positive one of them had other health issues and got hospitalized for 9 days and has recovered now and back home.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bushman on September 22, 2020, 01:16:36 PM
Quote
Protecting the most vulnerable is a better approach which is moral and not negligent.
which is done by everyone doing there part (via mitigation)
otherwise the only solution is to ship them all off to an offshore island
or are you saying let it run rampant in the rest of the population to build up herd immunity and cut off this part of the population (and the care workers) from their family and friends completely?. Sweden tried a form of that and their death toll is horrendous compared to neighbouring countries. Is that what you are proposing?
Have you actually looked what is happening now in Sweden? 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ocala on September 22, 2020, 06:48:01 PM
Randy nice to see you posting, if only sporadically.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on September 22, 2020, 06:56:48 PM
Randy nice to see you posting, if only sporadically.
=D&gt;
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on September 23, 2020, 11:15:48 PM
Thanks guys, Still testing if interested follow my blog tomorrow I'll post graphs of the Davis shield on steroids with a new fan vs the Meteroshield Pro.

https://www.valentinenebraska.net/blogpage.php
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on September 23, 2020, 11:51:05 PM
Thanks guys, Still testing if interested follow my blog tomorrow I'll post graphs of the Davis shield on steroids with a new fan vs the Meteroshield Pro.

https://www.valentinenebraska.net/blogpage.php
Wilco. I believe I sent you and Jerry both the e-mail about how I felt my 60cfm was over powered due to it's ability to suck too much insolation off the desert floor in the heat of the summer day causing ridiculous swings. Having an SF2 cap doesn't help either. Next service I was going to put in my 40cfm backup and see how it does. All that said, I highly doubt you'll have my "problem".
Look forward to your results.

PS: Another good thing about a big fan vs passive..never deal with bugs.

Edit: Sorry for the OT, don't want to upset anyone, we'll obviously move this elsewhere.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on September 24, 2020, 12:34:09 AM
Yeah the 40 cfm works good. 
Staying on topic check this out.  https://www.valentinenebraska.net/90.mp4    This explains why some of the people that were positive and should have gotten very sick like a 100-year-old and 84 year old here in nursing home never got sick with a positive test.

Part 2: https://www.valentinenebraska.net/part2.mp4
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on September 24, 2020, 12:56:58 AM

Staying on topic check this out.  https://www.valentinenebraska.net/90.mp4   

Part 2: https://www.valentinenebraska.net/part2.mp4
I'd say I was speechless, but nothing surprises me anymore.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on September 24, 2020, 01:01:05 AM
CW2274 I added some 100 thread silk at the inlet screen cap reduced the airflow on the 46cfm from sucking up a full page of computer paper to just a paper towel you might try. Plus you don't need a filter on sensor being the inlet has a filter.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on September 24, 2020, 01:18:39 AM

Staying on topic check this out.  https://www.valentinenebraska.net/90.mp4   

Part 2: https://www.valentinenebraska.net/part2.mp4
I'd say I was speechless, but nothing surprises me anymore.

Yup, crazy 90% of the positive test should be negative because they are amplifying the test results beyond the 30% scale. Crazy S going on because of the upcoming election. BTW daughter-in-law was positive asymptomatic. Brother 61-year-old caught the virus run a fever for 7 days just took Vit C and D at the time we didn't know about the Querecitin + zinc.  Couple friends here in town also have caught it so it's real for sure. We went from 6 cases to 71 positive yesterday in just a couple weeks but people here are only testing when actually sick, very few go to the drive by test.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on September 24, 2020, 01:52:36 AM

Staying on topic check this out.  https://www.valentinenebraska.net/90.mp4   

Part 2: https://www.valentinenebraska.net/part2.mp4
I'd say I was speechless, but nothing surprises me anymore.

Yup, crazy 90% of the positive test should be negative because they are amplifying the test results beyond the 30% scale.
I'm not sure this is analogous, but when I got drug tested in the agency, the tested substances had to meet a particular level of concentration before deeming it "in" the persons system. For instance, even if low levels of THC were detected in my urine, they couldn't definitively say I was a pot smoker just for the mere limitations of the test, i.e., a false positive. Think the general public knows that?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on September 24, 2020, 02:07:49 AM
Yeah, that's why there is an amplification cutoff. The Coronavirus is common and been around for ages if they keep amplifying they will find traces of it but the viral load is so insignificant yet we have schools making 6-year-olds wear face mask and cancelling HS sporting events over 1 positive case. This is all total hogwash as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ConligWX on September 24, 2020, 02:54:37 AM
Yup, crazy 90% of the positive test should be negative because they are amplifying the test results beyond the 30% scale. Crazy S going on because of the upcoming election.

Governments love project fear.  it keeps the public in line.  wait for round too, when Corvid-19 is replaced with Novichok  :shock:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on September 24, 2020, 06:58:36 AM
Yup, crazy 90% of the positive test should be negative because they are amplifying the test results beyond the 30% scale. Crazy S going on because of the upcoming election.

Governments love project fear.  it keeps the public in line.  wait for round too, when Corvid-19 is replaced with Novichok  :shock:

Thats what I love about the UK Scots and Brits free thinkers. Hey we are actually one of the same you might say just born in different countries.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: ValentineWeather on September 24, 2020, 07:10:09 AM
Unfortunately, the Marxists socialist are trying to take over America because of our ultra-liberal press they are allowed to say and do anything including censor any speech they disagree with. That's why I have gone out on my own, I'm not going to have them in any way rule the roost. Total BS and I won't participate so out of here for the most part.  I came back to give a tip on how to defeat this virus or not catch it and that's all because I care.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on September 24, 2020, 11:09:46 AM
You've got plenty of kindred spirits here, I believe, Randy.  Hang in there! [tup]
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on September 24, 2020, 03:55:09 PM
Unfortunately, the Marxists socialist are trying to take over America because of our ultra-liberal press they are allowed to say and do anything including censor any speech they disagree with.
[tup] Try telling that to the people that gobble this crap down hook, line, and sinker and think they're completely "in touch" with reality.

Reality IS coming and it ain't gonna be pretty, whether it's by the governments hand, by it's law abiding citizens...or both.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on September 24, 2020, 03:57:54 PM
Quote
Have you actually looked what is happening now in Sweden?
yes
and their outlook going into the autumn is not good
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bushman on September 24, 2020, 07:00:12 PM
Quote
Have you actually looked what is happening now in Sweden?
yes
and their outlook going into the autumn is not good
Really?  Day after day with no deaths.  No significant lockdowns.  Up here (Canada) there have been far more deaths from opioid overdoses than Covid.  Worl-wide, the total death count is a fraction of pretty much every scourge of mankind from cancer to heart disease to starvation.  Clearly, data is not your thing.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on September 25, 2020, 03:35:49 AM

Staying on topic check this out.  https://www.valentinenebraska.net/90.mp4   

Part 2: https://www.valentinenebraska.net/part2.mp4
I'd say I was speechless, but nothing surprises me anymore.

And I thought conservative sources did not like the New York Times:

"The claim that the U.S. has an inflated COVID-19 case count due to the sensitivity of the diagnostic PCR test for the virus that causes COVID-19 has been published in several media outlets including One America News Network, The Blaze, Red State, and Townhall Media. The claim is a misinterpretation of a New York Times news report published on 29 August 2020, yet versions of the claim have received more than a million interactions on social media platforms like Facebook, according to the social media analytics tool CrowdTangle.

In short, the high number of COVID-19 cases observed in the U.S. is due to a high number of infected people in the community, not the PCR test’s sensitivity. Hence public health measures, such as physical distancing and lockdowns, are important for reducing the rate of infection in the community. Given testing bottlenecks in the U.S., the number of COVID-19 cases is much more likely to be underestimated, rather than overestimated as these videos and articles claim."

 MORE at:  https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/misinterpreted-new-york-times-report-leads-to-false-claim-that-the-number-of-covid-19-cases-in-the-u-s-is-inflated-by-up-to-90/ (https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/misinterpreted-new-york-times-report-leads-to-false-claim-that-the-number-of-covid-19-cases-in-the-u-s-is-inflated-by-up-to-90/)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on September 25, 2020, 07:11:53 PM

Staying on topic check this out.  https://www.valentinenebraska.net/90.mp4   

Part 2: https://www.valentinenebraska.net/part2.mp4
I'd say I was speechless, but nothing surprises me anymore.

And I thought conservative sources did not like the New York Times:

"The claim that the U.S. has an inflated COVID-19 case count due to the sensitivity of the diagnostic PCR test for the virus that causes COVID-19 has been published in several media outlets including One America News Network, The Blaze, Red State, and Townhall Media. The claim is a misinterpretation of a New York Times news report published on 29 August 2020, yet versions of the claim have received more than a million interactions on social media platforms like Facebook, according to the social media analytics tool CrowdTangle.

In short, the high number of COVID-19 cases observed in the U.S. is due to a high number of infected people in the community, not the PCR test’s sensitivity. Hence public health measures, such as physical distancing and lockdowns, are important for reducing the rate of infection in the community. Given testing bottlenecks in the U.S., the number of COVID-19 cases is much more likely to be underestimated, rather than overestimated as these videos and articles claim."

 MORE at:  https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/misinterpreted-new-york-times-report-leads-to-false-claim-that-the-number-of-covid-19-cases-in-the-u-s-is-inflated-by-up-to-90/ (https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/misinterpreted-new-york-times-report-leads-to-false-claim-that-the-number-of-covid-19-cases-in-the-u-s-is-inflated-by-up-to-90/)
And I say again... "I'd say I was speechless, but nothing surprises me anymore."

Pick a side(s). :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on September 25, 2020, 09:15:01 PM


Wasn't the whole point of this thread to not pick sides, to not bring politics into the discussion. I thought we were supposed to discuss what was happening locally. What we were doing, what we see others doing, what the local government was doing...that sort of thing.

For my part I used to go to the grocery store every day (sometimes twice because I forgot something). Now I try to limit it once a week. Masks are required at the store. So far most are following this without too much complaint.

I know one, long time (40 years) friend that's died from covid and know quite a few others that have it, some have been hospitalized but most have recovered at home. One was scheduled for non elective surgery and it had to be postponed.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on September 25, 2020, 10:16:08 PM
Quote
Pick a side(s).
Wasn't the whole point of this thread to not pick sides, to not bring politics into the discussion.
That statement has nothing to do with politics, but division within the science(s). That said, this virus is driven at the helm by politics to sway the American people, just like everything else now.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on September 26, 2020, 07:34:56 AM
I have been at school for 3 weeks. (new school, private 7-12)

7-8 kids are there all days,

HS are every other day.


As of now, NO confirmed cases of CV19. Truly amazing.

Everyone wears a mask while on campus. No exceptions. One will be expected to be at home Monday for violating the rule. The only time I can be without a mask is in my room when I am alone.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on September 27, 2020, 04:07:05 PM
In Iowa, up in NW a lot of new cases, beware.   Not sure why, perhaps packing plants, but in Iowa  , they report the numbers but never tell where and who.

Stay safe, take no chances and be very,very happy.  You earned it.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on September 29, 2020, 02:27:54 AM
Stillwater hospital activates surge plan to deal with spike in COVID-19 hospitalizations
https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/stillwater-medical-activates-surge-plan-to-deal-with-spike-in-covid-19-hospitalizations/article_709411de-01e5-11eb-aba9-fb2af5146559.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/stillwater-medical-activates-surge-plan-to-deal-with-spike-in-covid-19-hospitalizations/article_709411de-01e5-11eb-aba9-fb2af5146559.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on September 29, 2020, 11:47:04 AM
People are not social  distancing, but clustering together like files on a turd.   No masks, they don't care.  And now we are at the 1 million mark world wide in deaths.

It is simple,  get your flu shot (wife and I are going to get ours today), wear a mask,  (we also use face shields),  distance,  keep away from indoor places and crowds.  Wash your hands and definitely don't suck your fingers.

Look control is easy,but you can't convince people when you have a leader mock people who do wear masks.     

I watched on NBC a old geezer saying that it was a hoax and he was going to party.    With that mentality, it is going to be a long time.   

On a positive thought, the funeral business would be something for career for a young kid, you know the strange one  you have wondered about for years
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on September 29, 2020, 04:18:20 PM
I watched on NBC
:lol:  Like they and everyone else in MSM don't have a blatant one sided agenda. Just keep gobblin' that down. :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on September 30, 2020, 01:29:35 PM
I watched on NBC
:lol:  Like they and everyone else in MSM don't have a blatant one sided agenda. Just keep gobblin' that down. :roll:

But NBC was certainly presenting that there was another side to the story.  I only take that the media is being biased when it only wants to present one side to a controversial story.  That is frequently the story.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Tarma on October 01, 2020, 08:41:37 AM
It's always the other guys sources that are biased....  :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on October 01, 2020, 08:41:58 AM
that said how you bias that debate is beyond anyone, as my american friend,neighbor put it to me yesterday, i asked who lost that debate because i couldnt fathom anything beneficial from it...he replied “us the american people we seem to be perceived and judged these days by the actions of our leaders regardless whether we are educated or not.we will never defeat this virus until we can distant ourselves from the political madness ..
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on October 06, 2020, 10:29:09 PM
An Oklahoma town, Chickasha, recently rejected mandatory masks 8 to 1.

“If we were to pass this resolution, we would be passing something to make us feel good. We would not be passing anything that would have any effect on the community,” a city council member said.

“We’re trampling on people’s liberties, personal liberties," another city councilor said. "It didn’t pan out well for Norman. I say we don’t do it here."

"I don’t necessarily think it’s our place to tell everybody what to put on their face,” another city councilor added.

https://www.koco.com/article/chickasha-city-council-votes-against-possible-mask-mandate/34278794 (https://www.koco.com/article/chickasha-city-council-votes-against-possible-mask-mandate/34278794)

That town has had 654 cases and 6 deaths.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on October 13, 2020, 12:30:52 AM
Oh, no, all ICU beds in Stillwater Regional Hospital are in use as of Monday. However, in the COVID unit, 9 out of 18 non-icu beds are still available. 21 out of 47 medical beds are still available. So things are not all bad.  Fortunately, new daily Stillwater covid cases have been trending down. There were only 9 cases on Monday. There were 21 cases on the statewide record setting day of Saturday, Oct. 10 when there were 1533 new cases reported. Recent peak day for Stillwater was 42 on Sept. 24.   Stillwater with 2138 all time cases as of Monday places it at no. 6  for most number of total cases of the cities in Oklahoma.

Meanwhile, the first round petition to vote to recall Stillwater mayor & city council members got enough signatures. The second required petition with more signatures needed for it to go on ballot is now out. Some people are unhappy over required business closures ordered last spring and later on the city ordinance requiring masks. But the city council had no other choice, since the Oklahoma governor last spring ordered a shutdown of "non-essential businesses" in 19 of 77 Oklahoma counties, which included the county Stillwater is in.  That order expired last summer.  Oklahoma governor still doesn't require people to wear masks statewide.  It's still left up to cities to decide if it's important enough to do that. I will not sign the petition.
 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on October 16, 2020, 11:19:26 AM
The State Department of Health on Thursday reported the seventh death in Stillwater related to COVID-19.

OSDH did not provide age and gender for Thursday’s fatalities. Earlier in the day, it sent a message to media that the daily report was delayed due to technical difficulties.

There were 10 other deaths across the state reported Thursday, four in Oklahoma County, and one each in Canadian, Cleveland, Craig, Delaware, Okfuskee and Stephens. Six men and five women were reported as the fatalities with nine being in the 65-and-older group, one 50-64 and one 36-49.

Stillwater has continued to trend down since coming off a September peak of active cases that numbered over 400. On Thursday, Stillwater had 175 active cases, according to OSDH.

Hospitalizations have been the main subject in the state’s mitigation efforts, with hospitals in Oklahoma City reporting capacity for ICU. Stillwater Medical Center on Thursday reported 6 of 7 ICU beds in use, with five of those being used by COVID-19 patients. SMC also reported having 14 COVID-19 patients in the regular COVID Unit, with four beds available.

In a news release Thursday, the Oklahoma Hospital Association noted that availability can also refer to staffing.

“Hospital ICU capacity is based on the number of staffed beds available. In other words, it doesn’t reflect the number of empty or occupied beds alone, rather the number of beds that the hospital has health care clinicians available to staff at a point in time,” the release reads. “To effectively manage hospital expenses, hospitals do not routinely staff empty beds on an ongoing basis. Capacity is tight at times year around even without a pandemic. As ICU needs arise, hospitals work to provide staff for more beds.”

In social media posts, SMC has noted that bed “types” can be fluid as rooms are converted from regular to COVID-19 rooms as needed, “and as equipment and care staff are available.” SMC also noted that their reported bed availability does not include maternal child health, rehab and emergency department beds.

OHA mentioned that one of the best ways to ensure that resources don’t get strained is if people continue to seek out regular health care.

“Regardless of hospital capacity and the current pandemic, it is important that Oklahomans do not delay needed health care,” the release states. “Hospitals across the state are safe and available to treat patients. Even when Oklahomans hear about low hospital capacity in their community, they should never hesitate to seek care when needed.”

https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/seventh-fatality-related-to-covid-19-reported-in-stillwater/article_b76b0e7c-0f47-11eb-a6a9-471a57253bec.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/seventh-fatality-related-to-covid-19-reported-in-stillwater/article_b76b0e7c-0f47-11eb-a6a9-471a57253bec.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on October 16, 2020, 11:32:11 PM
Numbers here are going up fast. Wisconsin is worse.

Schools have low numbers but a few have had outbreaks. Heard of one in ND that had 700.

My new school has 1. Hopefully no more-we pray. We can do that at a Catholic school.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on October 23, 2020, 09:26:38 AM
You can beat it! My 91 year old Uncle, a lifetime smoker, wasn't feeling good a week or so ago and went to the hospital and they said pneumonia. Did some testing and said covid, they gave him one, maybe two weeks, he was on oxygen. Yesterday he went home from the hospital, our family got a twofer, an October surprise and an early Christmas present. So, he joins the 99% that at his age beat it! And, as far as wearing my stupid mask until 2022 as suggested by last night's debate moderator - ain't gonna happen, not here and not ever!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on October 23, 2020, 02:53:31 PM
deaths and rates of serious/critical numbers and postive numbers are going up and up in the USA
as predicted, the Fall surge is happening
its up to everyone to try and do their bit to flaten the curve and save lives
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on October 23, 2020, 03:54:58 PM
You can beat it! My 91 year old Uncle... So, he joins the 99% that at his age beat it!

I honestly don't know how you have the nerve to post such nonsense. The COVID CFR (Case Fatality Rate) for someone at 90+ is usually quoted at somewhere between 1 in 2 and 1 in 3. So Fortune obviously smiled on him for having missed the bullet and I certainly wish him well, but it didn't miss by much.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on October 25, 2020, 04:26:05 PM
You can beat it! My 91 year old Uncle, a lifetime smoker, wasn't feeling good a week or so ago and went to the hospital and they said pneumonia. Did some testing and said covid, they gave him one, maybe two weeks, he was on oxygen. Yesterday he went home from the hospital, our family got a twofer, an October surprise and an early Christmas present. So, he joins the 99% that at his age beat it! And, as far as wearing my stupid mask until 2022 as suggested by last night's debate moderator - ain't gonna happen, not here and not ever!
In a rational world, people would actually be happy that your uncle lived and did so well, and take heart that not all news is bad and dire, and that there is hope, and that maybe even some of the stats may be exaggerated or the virus is attenuating.  But not on this forum, encouraging personal experiences, such as good news about your uncle, is unacceptable.

I honestly don't know how you have the nerve to post such nonsense.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on October 25, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
As usual creative editing by SH to make a provocative comment that has nothing to do with the original post.

The response specifically cited and decried the 99% figure. Also included " ...  and I certainly wish him well"
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on October 25, 2020, 05:41:17 PM
As usual creative editing by SH to make a provocative comment that has nothing to do with the original post.

The response specifically cited and decried the 99% figure. Also included " ...  and I certainly wish him well"
You're correct, I did misread that and misunderstood johnd.  I apologize.  It just seems that people might show more appreciation that an elderly man did so well rather than to respond to good news first with an attack that makes the well-wishing seem to be more of an afterthought and insincere. As for the 99% figure, does anyone really have valid and verified statistics?  I know of elderly people with "comorbidity" factors that have tested positive and done fine.

It's not like stevebrtx was encouraging elderly people to go out and get covid.  He may have been relating his experience that the majority of people survive with a little hyperbole. If the CFR is between 30 or so to 50 or so percent as johnd quotes, even that is a lot better than many people seem to want you to believe, and those figures aren't set in stone and most likely constantly changing.

Anyway, I am about done with this forum.  I have avoided responding for some time now as I have been seen the kind of people who respond on this thread.

@ SnowHiker:  You are a superb polemicist and I'm just an all-around skeptic who doesn't basically disagree with you.  BUT I would caution you that when you get under the skin of the one person who has done more by far for our weather-enthusiast community, you are treading where most dare not go.  After all, he for all intents and purposes OWNS this forum.  While that doesn't mean his opinion means more than any other, he can control the narrative if he so wishes.  His post was an attempt to tone down the vituperative nature of our current discussion.  Please just be aware that nobody's patience is unlimited.
Sorry gwwilk, while you are one of the most reasonable people here, I am not a respecter of persons.  I don't care how much someone has done for the community, no one has the right to mischaracterize people and accuse them of saying things that they didn't say, as is very common on this forum.  I responded to Ken's accusations and misrepresentations and, and of course have not received any kind of a correction from him.  Not that I expect to.  I don't entirely blame Ken; it's pretty obvious he had no clue what was going on, and probably just responding to the poor sensitive souls who kept hitting the "report" button because someone just didn't fall in line with the party dogma on this forum.  So now Galfert, or whatever his name is, can come along and edit my post with no notice, or ban me, or whatever pleases him.  It's not like I'm incapable of understanding or enjoying weather monitoring without their help or being a member of this forum, though I have enjoyed some of the info on this forum.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on October 25, 2020, 05:52:27 PM
As usual creative editing by SH to make a provocative comment that has nothing to do with the original post.

The response specifically cited and decried the 99% figure. Also included " ...  and I certainly wish him well"
You're correct, I did misread that and misunderstood johnd.  I apologize.  It just seems that people might show some appreciation that an elderly man did so well rather than just continually attacking. As for the 99% figure, does anyone really have valid and verified statistics?  I know of elderly people with "comorbidity" factors that have tested positive and done fine.

Anyway, I am about done with this forum.  I have avoided responding for some time now as I have been seen the kind of people who respond on this thread.

@ SnowHiker:  You are a superb polemicist and I'm just an all-around skeptic who doesn't basically disagree with you.  BUT I would caution you that when you get under the skin of the one person who has done more by far for our weather-enthusiast community, you are treading where most dare not go.  After all, he for all intents and purposes OWNS this forum.  While that doesn't mean his opinion means more than any other, he can control the narrative if he so wishes.  His post was an attempt to tone down the vituperative nature of our current discussion.  Please just be aware that nobody's patience is unlimited.
no one has the right to mischaracterize people and accuse them of saying things that they didn't say, as is very common on this forum.
Make no mistake, an absolute reflection of today's society.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on October 25, 2020, 08:56:26 PM
Some people in Iowa are wearing their masks wrong.  they leave their noses sticking out of the mask.  I am assuming that they haven't figured out that the virus goes in through the mouth and nose.  Oh well.

Iowa is leading in covid cases and deaths, and the people here don't seem to give a rats rear. I know of two people who still talk to me, believe they have immunity and I asked them to go get the antigen test and they get really uptight about that request. Yet they go everwhere, eat everwhere, drink everywhere. 

I get irritated because I miss going to the grocery store for a few items.  To pickup I have to order 30$ and maybe it is only a loaf of bread I need, yet these clowns keep the stats up.   Kovid Kim,the gov of Iowa has no clue and is blocking all mask mandates although Johnson and Story counties have told her to go fly away and are doing it . Of course the two state universities of any size are there.

So I am attaching a posting from FB from 1 of the 2 people mentioned above.   
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on October 25, 2020, 09:29:43 PM
Amazingly, we are still in school.  We have had a few cases, but the state says we can continue.

Kids are doing a great job keeping their masks on. So so at distancing. There are times they become white blood cells in the hallway.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on October 26, 2020, 11:03:38 AM
Seems like a politician, I misspoke, Uncle Gene, at age 91, isn't a 99 percenter, per the CDC he's ONLY A 95 PERCENTER! I'll be sure to inform him of his demotion and I'm sure his two older brothers will razz him about it? As to the naysayers who can't find joy in a good man given more time with us here, they're small and few in numbers and easily ignored.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on October 26, 2020, 04:47:53 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-covid-19-cases-testing/
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on October 27, 2020, 03:26:31 AM
Since the COVID unit in my local hospital has been at or near full capacity for days, I dare not go to stores any more than I need to or go to restaurants during a busy hour:

Metro woman battling COVID-19 transferred to Enid after no room in OKC hospitals:
https://kfor.com/news/metro-woman-battling-covid-19-transferred-to-enid-after-no-room-in-okc-hospitals/?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&fbclid=IwAR1p-t5jqWX3Pw1t3WrV4HGJY8c99mnLFkwwIklPKZFWDIyK_KTjtqtQQR8 (https://kfor.com/news/metro-woman-battling-covid-19-transferred-to-enid-after-no-room-in-okc-hospitals/?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&fbclid=IwAR1p-t5jqWX3Pw1t3WrV4HGJY8c99mnLFkwwIklPKZFWDIyK_KTjtqtQQR8)

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: waiukuweather on October 27, 2020, 05:02:21 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-hospitalizations-iowa-record-high

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hospitals-reporting-increases-covid19-hospitalizations-patients-2020-10-27/

come on America, don't give up
you can do this
you still can fight it
you just need to all work together
otherwise 10 of thousands more will loose their lives to it (models show over another 100,000 deaths more by Feb next year, and the models have been accurate so far at projected deaths for the USA)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on October 29, 2020, 12:40:15 PM
good to see the 90 year old man recover its a positive piece of news however here in istanbul the situation is or has become dire within the last two weeks , the official health minister here statement made today ..ill translate it ..

"TESTİ POZİTİF ÇIKAN HER 10 KİŞİDEN 4’Ü İSTANBUL’DADIR. Son 7 gündeki artış, geçen ayın ortalamasından %85 fazladır. Nüfus düşünüldüğünde, bu oran korkutucudur. "

"4 out of every 10 people who are tested are positive in istanbul
The increase in the last 7 days is 85% higher than last month's average.
 Considering the population, this ratio is scary. "

the recovery rate here in Turkey is quite high and much improved based on now the medical institutes/hospitals are better prepared and understand how to treat the patient, however spiraling upward cases is threatening how those institutes cope with increased number of patients .

population of Istanbul 17 million alone densely living  in a 200km radius !!!  . try social distancing in that !! masks are compulsory/law but it is not enough simply the population is to dense in a small area , curfews won't happen anymore the economy can not sustain it and neither can most households financially .. we simply adapt to the new life and rules , advice and try to carry on knowing full well of the risks , we cant just sit at home we are humans and we are social animals !!! people need to earn their living for their needs not all employment is capable of "work from home" try mentioning "work from home" that to a family run business in the food industry , try telling that someone automobile industry , try telling that to the hotel owners and so on.. ... the threat is real but so is getting knocked down by a vehicle , life is one big risk whether we like it or not..

state run app showing local density map of where I live zoomed in on 2km radius ...red area is obvious !!!


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Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: the beteljuice on October 29, 2020, 05:34:04 PM
... and you have the benefit of ocean breezes !

You (and everyone) take care where you can.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on November 16, 2020, 10:00:33 PM
As of Monday morning, 11/16/20, Stillwater Medical Center was once again full of COVID patients.  This graph  includes Emergency Room Hold beds. These numbers represent patients requiring COVID-19 inpatient care; however, no inpatient beds are available in house and other hospitals are not accepting transfers at this time.  This can serve as a reminder to continue to take precautions against covid, in case your local hospital is under similar pressing conditions.

(http://okie.world/photos/icunov16.jpg)

Fortunately, Stillwater City Council passes first reading of ordinance to extend mask mandate.  Stillwater Medical Center President and CEO were among those speaking in support of it:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/council-passes-first-reading-of-ordinance-to-extend-mask-mandate/article_ef3e039f-fe14-5e9d-ae9e-6529449389ee.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/council-passes-first-reading-of-ordinance-to-extend-mask-mandate/article_ef3e039f-fe14-5e9d-ae9e-6529449389ee.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on November 19, 2020, 01:06:37 AM
In Oklahoma, 3,017 (!!) new COVID-19 cases today, 11/18/20; 7-day rolling average a new record at 2,727.

26 more reported deaths, a single-day record.

Hospitalizations are 1,435 (+53) a new record.

ICU is 447 (+57!) a new record. Only 6% of ICU beds in the entire state of Oklahoma are still available.

Lots of rural Oklahoma people still not taking covid seriously enough as reflected by rural towns still refusing to pass required mask mandates. Even some suburban towns refuse to do so. So Oklahoma metro hospitals in Oklahoma City and Tulsa are taking in lots of rural and suburban patients.  Some are full.  It's believed weekend Halloween festivities helps explain much of  the upsurge.  Who knows how much worse the situation is going to get with Thanksgiving next?

Fortunately, Stillwater Medical Center had no sick covid patient waiting in the emergency room as of Wednesday for a bed in the covid unit, but that could easily change with the covid unit still being full! So be careful out there folks. Observe social distancing and wear a mask. Once again, you sure don't want to end up in a bed at the emergency room being told you'll have to wait for a bed in the covid unit to become available.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: METARMan on November 19, 2020, 01:51:15 PM
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

Masks didn’t seem to perform very well for the wearer in this large scale, randomized and controlled study.

Opinions on the study:

https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/vinay-prasad/89778

https://healthy-skeptic.com/2020/11/18/flash-on-the-danish-mask-study/
 

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on November 19, 2020, 08:18:57 PM
Masks didn’t seem to perform very well for the wearer in this large scale, randomized and controlled study.

I can only speak for myself but even going back to last March and April I've never thought that wearing a mask protects me. I do believe that wearing a mask does protect others from me if I happen to be sick. I wear my mask to help protect others and I appreciate it when others reciprocate. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: METARMan on November 20, 2020, 05:19:32 PM
Key messages

We are uncertain whether wearing masks or N95/P2 respirators helps to slow the spread of respiratory viruses.

Hand hygiene programmes may help to slow the spread of respiratory viruses.

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub5/full

The thread title “...wash your hands” is good advice.  Not sure I’d rely on a mask for much more than virtue signaling.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on November 21, 2020, 07:33:32 PM
A recent study in Oklahoma comparing masked vs unmasked cities found that masks are helpful: 

https://www.mcalesternews.com/oklahoma/governor-won-t-mandate-masks-despite-study-showing-slowed-spread/article_adbd596e-1da5-5b7e-8d05-d14e37b00808.html (https://www.mcalesternews.com/oklahoma/governor-won-t-mandate-masks-despite-study-showing-slowed-spread/article_adbd596e-1da5-5b7e-8d05-d14e37b00808.html)

People need to take precautions more than ever and not trust their luck.  Even a fireman can get covid so bad that he has been needing ICU care for days:

https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/residents-rallying-around-firefighters-battle-with-covid-19/article_9ce2f923-dd30-5313-bfe1-f0f346df7819.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/residents-rallying-around-firefighters-battle-with-covid-19/article_9ce2f923-dd30-5313-bfe1-f0f346df7819.html)

 

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: METARMan on November 22, 2020, 01:30:54 PM
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/researchers-withdraw-study-showing-efficacy-of-mask-mandates-after-increased-virus-cases-in-areas-observed

"We consider it is unwise to infer causation based on regional geographical observations as several proponents of masks have done," Heneghan wrote in July. "Spikes in cases can easily refute correlations, compliance with masks and other measures is often variable, and confounders cannot be accounted for in such observational research."
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: METARMan on November 23, 2020, 08:53:00 AM
Here is a comparison of COVID cases in New Mexico and Utah for the duration of the pandemic.

Two states very close together, one a little further north and west and with a larger metropolitan area, with very different masking policy implementations, but basically identical case curves. And look at those curves. When conditions are right for CV-19, it just explodes.

I feel this is a perfect example of the lack of benefit of mask policy.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on November 23, 2020, 09:16:52 AM
Here (https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/vinay-prasad/89778?eun=g6298999d) is a scientific Danish mask study.  It doesn't answer all mask questions, but it's conclusions are very interesting.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: BKS97 on November 23, 2020, 09:14:55 PM
During the Second World War, everyone at home in the U.S. was asked by the government to observe rules for rationing food and other products and materials to help with the war effort. Rationing helped assure that those on the front lines had everything they needed to fight the war.  The vast majority of Americans accepted rationing and abided by the rules. Today we refer to them as the “Greatest Generation.”  They made sacrifices for the good of the country.

With the controversy over mask mandates continuing even now with the worsening pandemic, I wonder how historians will refer to us, members of the current generation of Americans.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: FW8379 on November 23, 2020, 09:32:18 PM
During the Second World War, everyone at home in the U.S. was asked by the government to observe rules for rationing food and other products and materials to help with the war effort. Rationing helped assure that those on the front lines had everything they needed to fight the war.  The vast majority of Americans accepted rationing and abided by the rules. Today we refer to them as the “Greatest Generation.”  They made sacrifices for the good of the country.

With the controversy over mask mandates continuing even now with the worsening pandemic, I wonder how historians will refer to us, members of the current generation of Americans.

Just had this same conversation at the dinner table!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on November 23, 2020, 09:44:26 PM
During the Second World War, everyone at home in the U.S. was asked by the government to observe rules for rationing food and other products and materials to help with the war effort. Rationing helped assure that those on the front lines had everything they needed to fight the war.  The vast majority of Americans accepted rationing and abided by the rules.
Except back in WWII, you were issued "stamps" so as to keep everyone in compliance, like it or not.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on November 24, 2020, 12:23:42 PM
Today's Gilder's Prophecy (https://gildersdailyprophecy.com/), Nov 24, 2020, contains invaluable information about PCR and its pitfalls.  (PCR is the technology that underpins all COVID-19 antigen tests.)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: catdon on November 24, 2020, 08:03:11 PM
Anyone who has been following the economic stimulus negotiations the last few months, has to be pissed off about the politicians playing games while people suffer...im sure people would be much more supportive of restrictions etc. if we knew the govt had our backs, but they really don't seem to give a shit.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: tweatherman on November 24, 2020, 09:16:17 PM
Today's Gilder's Prophecy (https://gildersdailyprophecy.com/), Nov 24, 2020, contains invaluable information about PCR and its pitfalls.  (PCR is the technology that underpins all COVID-19 tests.)

Exactly...I know of a person who had 4 test for covid19 test same nurse and hospital. Results: 2 positive and 2 negative; figure that one out.

tweatherman
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: TraderGary on November 25, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Today's Gilder's Prophecy (https://gildersdailyprophecy.com/), Nov 24, 2020, contains invaluable information about PCR and its pitfalls.  (PCR is the technology that underpins all COVID-19 tests.)

Exactly...I know of a person who had 4 test for covid19 test same nurse and hospital. Results: 2 positive and 2 negative; figure that one out.

tweatherman

That's easy. Guy has 4 tests.
Test 1: Negative
Test 2: Negative
"Guy goes out and gets Covid"
Test 3: Positive
Test 4: Positive

  :roll: #-o
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: tweatherman on November 25, 2020, 10:37:31 PM
Not possible with it being the same day within hours of all 4 test. People just don’t get all the media junk going on out there.

tweatherman
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on November 25, 2020, 10:52:19 PM
People just don’t get all the media junk going on out there.
Gobble gobble....  ](*,)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on November 27, 2020, 10:30:40 PM
Not possible with it being the same day within hours of all 4 test. People just don’t get all the media junk going on out there.

tweatherman
Assuming that the nurse wasn't working more than 12 hour shifts, that is a test every THREE HOURS. The results of the first test would not be back before the subsequent extra three tests were taken. Your friend is pulling your leg.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: tweatherman on November 27, 2020, 10:46:33 PM
It wasn’t a friend it was Elon Musk who exposed the highly overrated covid19.

tweatherman
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: tweatherman on November 27, 2020, 10:48:31 PM
Over 99 percent recovery rate from this bad flu.

tweatherman
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on November 27, 2020, 11:25:53 PM
It wasn’t a friend it was Elon Musk who exposed the highly overrated covid19.

tweatherman
He would be an interesting person to know, where did you meet him?

Edit: Elon Musk was, by the way, speaking about a particular type of test called a "rapid antigen test". One of it characteristics is that they are are only accurate during a certain window of time.Either side of peak viral load, the likelihood of a false negative increases.

This is is not characteristic of the more accurate (but with longer testing times) PCR that is thread started with and why I could not understand why someone would have 4 tests in quick succession when the results would not be available.

Which test are you actually talking about?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: tweatherman on November 27, 2020, 11:46:27 PM
The owner of Tesla my friend.

tweatherman
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on November 28, 2020, 07:25:16 AM
The owner of Tesla my friend.

tweatherman
Ahh. So when you said "I know a man " and identified Elon Musk when I asked, you didn't actually know the man at all. It would be ironic if you got this story from any form of media since "People just don’t get all the media junk going on out there."   ;)

It's a pity that you didn't indicate whether you knew that you were talking about the PCR test and Mr Musk was talking about the significantly different Rapid Antigen Test, since the PCR doesn't underpin all COVID tests as was also erronously claimed in this thread. This would have made your comments clearer.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on November 28, 2020, 09:31:49 AM

... since the PCR doesn't underpin all COVID tests as was also erronously claimed in this thread. This would have made your comments clearer.
Sorry for not clarifying that I was referring to COVID-19 antigen tests, not coronavirus antibody tests.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on December 19, 2020, 10:48:12 PM
For a local covid update, the situation has gotten so much more busy at Stillwater Medical Center that it's been decided that the carpet has to go in the west conference room to turn it into more space for covid patients.  As of Friday, the covid ward was maxed out with 30 patients with one new patient waiting in the ER for a bed to become available.  The hospital indicates that 40% of the patients are from out of town with over 50% from places where mask wear in public is not mandatory. 

So let's look at how having a required city mask wear while indoors in public ordinance works out.  It doesn't work to eliminate positive covid cases but does appear to work better than having nothing:

Stillwater, OK, pop. 50,299, public mask wear indoors required, total positive COVID-19 cases:   4007, Deaths:  12.

Yukon, OK, pop.  28,828, public mask wear indoors NOTrequired:  total positive COVID-19 cases:  5042, Deaths:  16.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on December 29, 2020, 12:41:39 AM
500 Oklahoma City firefighters get the Moderna vaccine after one of them die from COVID-19.
https://kfor.com/news/local/oklahoma-city-firefighters-receive-covid-19-vaccines-one-day-after-coworker-dies-from-the-virus/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=referral&fbclid=IwAR2UelJUdc7gViPPz3Vil7yasci0inp2FtouDR83ilZULEfCsBELLwM_aME (https://kfor.com/news/local/oklahoma-city-firefighters-receive-covid-19-vaccines-one-day-after-coworker-dies-from-the-virus/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=referral&fbclid=IwAR2UelJUdc7gViPPz3Vil7yasci0inp2FtouDR83ilZULEfCsBELLwM_aME)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: weather34 on December 29, 2020, 05:07:33 AM
 it also takes more than just wearing masks strict lockdowns curb the virus spread , reduce the burden on medical staff and hospitals when they become overwhelmed the death rate climbs . here is what happened here, in November we saw a massive spike in new cases per day my own area become classed as High risk which is based on amount of people at any address that are tested positive within 1km !!

we had evaded any risk level since the pandemic outbreak upto November we were classed as Low Risk .

4 weekends of lockdowns and weekday night curfews has now finally put us back in the low risk area rating.That said I had 3 relatives within 1km one whole family with both husband and wife hospitalized in different hospitals due to not enough beds both have recovered .
many of the hospitals were extremely overwhelmed at one stage but here we are 4 weeks of restrictions and the results in new cases per day has halved also the hospital admissions have radically dropped . here is a chart that shows the curve when adhering to a strict lockdown to get the spread under control . Lockdowns are not pleasant but without them we would not have a future without all the awkwardness .lockdown effect generally takes 10 days to see any effectiveness its not a instant result.

Yes the vaccine is good news but now the chaos will begin on how that is rolled out.we are still under curfews restrictions until this is fully under control what we dont want is them lifted only to see all the recent perseverance goto waste..

take care all 

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Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on March 31, 2021, 07:58:59 PM
Been too long since a reply to this topic so...  It been much better across the country since February when covid cases started going down.  It got to the point where my local hospital decided to cease publishing capacity numbers  three times a week in Facebook.  When it's stopped, its covid unit was only around half full.

This month Oklahoma's average covid daily cases number has fallen from several thousand a day to now several hundred a day.  Hopefully, they can keep down, though other states haven't been able to say the same.

I finally got off the fence and decided to get my first covid shot, by Pfizer,  Tues. morning at the Expo Center, Payne County Fairgrounds, Stillwater. No real wait, even though I was there 5 minutes early. In and out in little more than 20 minutes.  The only waiting was expected where they have you go into a large room after the vaccination to sit with a bunch of other people spaced 6 ft. apart to wait 15 minutes for possible bad side effects. Nobody had any while I was there.  It's been no worse than getting a flu shot, or the after effects, now with shot site sore.   My friend said it was the same with her.

After my 2nd Pfizer shot and when the local city mask ordinance expires on May 25, I look forward to quit wearing a mask in stores and getting back to the good old normal days. One of my favorite local restaurants, Mexico Joe's, put salt and pepper shakers back on the tables, so that is a good sign local restaurants are getting anxious to get back to normal.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 31, 2021, 08:15:02 PM
I look forward to quit wearing a mask in stores and getting back to the good old normal days.
I try not to be "Debbie Downer", but I am a realist, and this will simply never be, virus or not. 9/11 was the same way, except this all is a thousand times worse.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on March 31, 2021, 08:25:10 PM
Lord save us from the dooms-dayers?

I'm looking forward to NE the 4th of July with family members from infant to 95. I asked my cousin there about the nazimasks and he laughed and said 6 family members had a meeting the night before, not one of them with shots and not one of them wear masks. I said great, I'll be there, I'm not packing a mask for the trip! Here in mid TX, except for the lawyer/supid driven chains, most business's are returning to normal - it's about time.

This has to end and now, I just rolled over 78 and I darn sure don't want to be laying in my coffin at the "viewing" looking up at people I don't recognize in masks mourning over me - not that anyone ever will!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on March 31, 2021, 08:53:04 PM
I just rolled over 78 and I darn sure don't want to be laying in my coffin at the "viewing" looking up at people I don't recognize in masks mourning over me
If I can look up at people when I'm in my coffin, I'm getting back out of it.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on March 31, 2021, 10:46:52 PM
Oh yeah. Can't wait for the good ol days when we were spreading snot and spitting all over each other. Have not seen one single person in normal contacts with cough, cold, or flu for over a year now.

Yeah, just cant wait to get back to the twice or thrice yearly snot fest.

If we don't learn something from this then we are doomed for the next one.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on March 31, 2021, 11:40:28 PM
If we don't learn something from this then we are doomed for the next one.
Boy you got that right. Keep hiding our heads in the sand and go through eternity locked up when exposure is the only way to fight mother nature. Only been doing it since the beginning of mankind.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on March 31, 2021, 11:47:44 PM
If only we were fighting nature.......
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 01, 2021, 12:09:46 AM
If we don't learn something from this then we are doomed for the next one.
Boy you got that right. Keep hiding our heads in the sand and go through eternity locked up when exposure is the only way to fight mother nature. Only been doing it since the beginning of mankind.
Well that certainly worked for Whooping Cough, Tetanus, Polio and TB, didn't it? Oops, Come to think of it, it didn't, did it?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 01, 2021, 12:27:22 AM
If we don't learn something from this then we are doomed for the next one.
Boy you got that right. Keep hiding our heads in the sand and go through eternity locked up when exposure is the only way to fight mother nature. Only been doing it since the beginning of mankind.
Well that certainly worked for Whooping Cough, Tetanus, Polio and TB, didn't it? Oops, Come to think of it, it didn't, did it?
And they all had vaccinations developed just like NOW. You didn't see the planet shut down. Ya gotta look through the forest to see the trees that countless more problems are created by this "stay in your corner crap" than not.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 01, 2021, 12:42:15 AM
So we look at numbers. With nearly 1/4 of all worldwide cases, way out of wack with percentage of world population, staggering numbers of cases and deaths per million compared to pretty much any other civilized country of any size.............and how is that herd immunity working out?

Imagine had there been ZERO mitigation efforts........this is not your father's Oldsmibile.

Didn't see the planet shut down for TB, Polio etc.????? Tell me about the infectious nature of those compared to Covid........
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 01, 2021, 12:55:45 AM
Yeah, and I'll bet you can pay your bills too. Just the tip of this "shutdown iceberg" and it's insidious effects on millions who can't. And that's just the adults...

I have nothing further to add.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: MchWxEnthusiast on April 01, 2021, 01:16:21 AM
Why don't we just kill humans?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on April 01, 2021, 01:26:03 AM
I finally got off the fence and decided to get my first covid shot, by Pfizer,  Tues. morning at the Expo Center, Payne County Fairgrounds, Stillwater. No real wait, even though I was there 5 minutes early. In and out in little more than 20 minutes.  The only waiting was expected where they have you go into a large room after the vaccination to sit with a bunch of other people spaced 6 ft. apart to wait 15 minutes for possible bad side effects. Nobody had any while I was there.  It's been no worse than getting a flu shot, or the after effects, now with shot site sore.   My friend said it was the same with her.
Congratulations! Good for you! The more of us that do this the better off we'll all be.

I was never, "on the fence" but I'm not much of a planner either. I figured it would happen when it happens. My wife on the other hand made an appointment through her, "health care provider" (god I hate that term) when she first qualified in early January. The earliest they could schedule was March 20(something) about 60 days out. A week later the morning news announced that a mass vaccination site was opening at the local arena. I was able to make an appointment and two hours later my first shot (Moderna) was a done deal. I was able to schedule my wife for the following week and we both got our second shots, on schedule, before the end of February.

I just rolled over 78 and I darn sure don't want to be laying in my coffin at the "viewing" looking up at people I don't recognize in masks mourning over me
If I can look up at people when I'm in my coffin, I'm getting back out of it.
:lol:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 01, 2021, 02:45:46 AM
I look forward to quit wearing a mask in stores and getting back to the good old normal days.
I try not to be "Debbie Downer", but I am a realist, and this will simply never be, virus or not. 9/11 was the same way, except this all is a thousand times worse.

Like I said I just hope there won't be another big surge, may God forbid,  by May 25 when the masks can come off locally.  But I bet my city council won't be hesitant to renew masks, if there is a surge.   Stillwater has seen a steady decline in active cases. The latest report had Stillwater with 134 active cases, down from 138 a week ago.
City reasserts stance on face coverings:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/city-reasserts-stance-on-face-coverings/article_27c3eb30-8dd3-11eb-a4ee-2b989e101d10.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/city-reasserts-stance-on-face-coverings/article_27c3eb30-8dd3-11eb-a4ee-2b989e101d10.html)

Unfortunately, all 5 of the new variants: UK, South Africa, Brazil, and 2 California variants are now in Oklahoma, according to Fox 25 news in Oklahoma City.  Hopefully, vaccines will be good against them. 

If only the most vulnerable people, like over age 65, had done a lot better job of protecting themselves, it would not have been a 1000 times worse.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 01, 2021, 03:02:30 AM
Why don't we just kill humans?
Because we're not ready to give up from ever getting out of the Twilight Zone.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 01, 2021, 03:36:46 AM
If we don't learn something from this then we are doomed for the next one.
Boy you got that right. Keep hiding our heads in the sand and go through eternity locked up when exposure is the only way to fight mother nature. Only been doing it since the beginning of mankind.
Well that certainly worked for Whooping Cough, Tetanus, Polio and TB, didn't it? Oops, Come to think of it, it didn't, did it?
And they all had vaccinations developed just like NOW. You didn't see the planet shut down. Ya gotta look through the forest to see the trees that countless more problems are created by this "stay in your corner crap" than not.
Well actually, we took notice of it at the start. Now our current outbreak started (just before Easter) resulted in a local lock-down of a couple of days, but partial travel restrictions from that area are still in place.

I quite understand that there are problems because of the current responses in the USA, but comparing the outcomes of countries like the USA and Brazil compared to countries like Vietnam, Australia and New Zealand that reacted strongly early can be informative. One would expect that if what you say is the case, these countries should currently be basket cases because of the issues you are alluding to.

Those countries did have serious lock-downs early and have come out the other side without crashing economically, medically or socially - although clearly everyone has a big problem with markets like International tourism and education. Australia is also locked in a costly trade stoush with China, so they have extra reasons to have tanked.

Given the country most attuned to what you seem to be proposing is Brazil, and it is also interesting to  see their medical and financial outcomes.

Still this could all be coincidence. Perhaps you can show a country that did what you suggest and had a good outcome.  Actual results are always more convincing than sayings like "you can't see the forest for the trees".

BTW, I was around as the Polio & TB vaccines started coming out.  Those diseases did not disappear "magically" when vaccines started being rolled out. If you are expecting COVID to magically disappear any time soon, you will be disappointed if history is any guide.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on April 01, 2021, 05:41:55 AM
Just like our cardiovascular system, our immune system needs 'exercise' in order to stay in shape.  Without exposure to the always changing hodgepodge of pathogens in our environment, made much more uniform in this age of ubiquitous air travel, we become as vulnerable as those Native American or Polynesian populations were to the ravages of new diseases their initial visitors often didn't even know they were carrying.

The law of unintended consequences is merciless and always exacts its price :twisted:.  It's pay me now in installments, or pay me in full later at a much steeper price.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 01, 2021, 06:34:33 AM
Just like our cardiovascular system, our immune system needs 'exercise' in order to stay in shape.  Without exposure to the always changing hodgepodge of pathogens in our environment, made much more uniform in this age of ubiquitous air travel, we become as vulnerable as those Native American or Polynesian populations were to the ravages of new diseases their initial visitors often didn't even know they were carrying.

The law of unintended consequences is merciless and always exacts its price :twisted:.  It's pay me now in installments, or pay me in full later at a much steeper price.
An interesting assertion. However, we do have evidence of people being essentially totally isolated for periods of 12 months from other people without evidence of major harm. Indeed, I have done so myself with a couple of year long trips with the Australian Antarctic Division (about 16 people) and a tour to a coral cay with just 3 other people with the Australian Bureau Of Meteorology. The USA and many other countries have similar groups that are more isolated that lock-downs in the 'burbs where you can go shopping and various other things.

I had a quick look and while immune response can wane to some degree over relative short periods, I couldn't find anything like your proposition.

Do you have any evidence to backup your assertions that we would, probably would or even might become "as vulnerable as those Native American or Polynesian populations" in such a short period of isolation that occurs with suburb lock-downs?


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on April 01, 2021, 06:36:15 AM
The 'experts' are leaning heavily toward a seemingly permanent lockdown with mandatory masking.  This is my nightmare scenario.  15 days to flatten the curve has gone on for over a year now, and there's no sign that the 'experts' can see an end point.  What are 'cases' are merely positive PCR tests taken to extreme replications, not true illnesses.  The 'experts' are abusing their power by misusing their tools.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: METARMan on April 01, 2021, 07:13:50 AM
I think it is very important to use science to make decisions.  Fauci or other government "experts" are not science.  Unfortunately we can believe in science, or we can believe in myth and lies.  The myth and lies have won.

Transmission is unlikely through asymptomatic persons:

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab271/6193430?searchresult=1

Lockdowns were not effective:

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/15/e2019706118

There was a lot of bad modeling:

https://www.jclinepi.com/article/S0895-4356(21)00087-1/fulltext#.YGIHDE_qYSY.twitter

The newest global iFR is 0.15%, which means 99.85% of the global population survives COVID:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13554

Mechanical ventilation was a bad idea:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.28.21254477v1

Antigen tests do a much better job at indicating those that could spread infection than PCR:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.27.21253966v1

There was a massive decline in cancer screenings during the pandemic:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/17/health/cancer-screenings-decline-breast-colon.html

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaoncology/fullarticle/2774867?guestAccessKey=8e9733f4-229b-4616-a1fe-169ee2e23abd&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=011421

People get COVID from family members, therefore strict lockdowns are ineffective:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.22.21254082v1

I have no idea how any reasonable person can justify mask mandates and economic restrictions, seeing that the highest case loads are once again in the areas with the most restrictions (NY, NJ, PA and MI) and not in areas that are significantly more free, like TX and FL.  Masks are simply not effective on a population wide basis.

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

The states with the most lockdowns, the most closed schools, the most masks have the highest community spread.  Science has shown this over, and over, and over again.

Quite honestly, the Salem Witch Trials were more rational than the response to COVID.

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 01, 2021, 07:40:40 AM
So it can be said masks and lockdowns do not work because we know everybody followed the mandates perfectly right from the beginning, before anything got out of hand, yet cases still skyrocket.   :?:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on April 01, 2021, 09:37:47 AM
This is the first time in medical history that a tool has been available to track the spread of a 'cold' virus.  It's use by 'experts' has been blighted by vacuous assumptions about the efficacy of this tool when applied in real-world situations, e.g. COVID-19.  The tool wasn't honed to this purpose until well after the world-wide dispersion of this virus; hence any assumptions regarding its efficacy can only be validated in hindsight.

Henceforth do we want to use this tool, PCR, as it has been applied thus far?  Do we chase down every new cold virus with it in order to 'protect' the most vulnerable among us, or do we protect the vulnerable by isolating them from possible contact like we've already been doing for years?  Cold viruses always have a certain incidence, albeit low, of severe sequelae and even death.  It's turning out that COVID-19, while on the upper end of this spectrum of problems, isn't all that unusual.  PCR testing is new, and it's still just a research tool.  To claim that all of the ramifications of this testing are known and predictable is folly.  To use it to mandate unproven measures across entire populations is arrogance nonpareil.  When the goal is to prevent a positive PCR test we're in muddy, muddy waters.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 01, 2021, 09:39:13 AM
The 'experts' are leaning heavily toward a seemingly permanent lockdown with mandatory masking.  This is my nightmare scenario.  15 days to flatten the curve has gone on for over a year now, and there's no sign that the 'experts' can see an end point.  What are 'cases' are merely positive PCR tests taken to extreme replications, not true illnesses.  The 'experts' are abusing their power by misusing their tools.
Not surprising that there is no end in sight in the USA. The USA seems exceptionally fractured and unstable, and distinctly anti-medical science, at the moment.

I suggest that it isn't the medical experts that are to blame in the USA, because they are suggesting exactly the things that have successfully been used to control COVID in other countries and were later relaxed as conditions eased. I would suggest that problem is that a significant slice of the US population think they are more competent medically than the experts. Rather astounding considering the USA has the worst per-capita death rate from COVID in the world - clearly the populous can't be that savvy, medically speaking.

We didn't like what our medical experts said, but we listened and acted as a population - now we are enjoying the rewards of the hard yards. Although it is a bit of a two-edged sword because the EU has stopped some shipments of the vaccines coming to us because our situation is so good.

We all reap what we have sewn. I think I know who got a better crop.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: METARMan on April 01, 2021, 09:46:04 AM
The 'experts' are leaning heavily toward a seemingly permanent lockdown with mandatory masking.  This is my nightmare scenario.  15 days to flatten the curve has gone on for over a year now, and there's no sign that the 'experts' can see an end point.  What are 'cases' are merely positive PCR tests taken to extreme replications, not true illnesses.  The 'experts' are abusing their power by misusing their tools.
Not surprising that there is no end in sight in the USA. The USA seems exceptionally fractured and unstable, and distinctly anti-medical science, at the moment.

I suggest that it isn't the medical experts that are to blame in the USA, because they are suggesting exactly the things that have successfully been used to control COVID in other countries and were later relaxed as conditions eased. I would suggest that problem is that a significant slice of the US population think they are more competent medically than the experts. Rather astounding considering the USA has the worst per-capita death rate from COVID in the world - clearly the populous can't be that savvy, medically speaking.

We didn't like what our medical experts said, but we listened and acted as a population - now we are enjoying the rewards of the hard yards. Although it is a bit of a two-edged sword because the EU has stopped some shipments of the vaccines coming to us because our situation is so good.

We all reap what we have sewn. I think I know who got a better crop.

This is complete misinformation.   The US is not even close to the highest death rate per capita. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

So much for being anti-medicine. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on April 01, 2021, 09:53:17 AM
The 'experts' are leaning heavily toward a seemingly permanent lockdown with mandatory masking.  This is my nightmare scenario.  15 days to flatten the curve has gone on for over a year now, and there's no sign that the 'experts' can see an end point.  What are 'cases' are merely positive PCR tests taken to extreme replications, not true illnesses.  The 'experts' are abusing their power by misusing their tools.
Not surprising that there is no end in sight in the USA. The USA seems exceptionally fractured and unstable, and distinctly anti-medical science, at the moment.

I suggest that it isn't the medical experts that are to blame in the USA, because they are suggesting exactly the things that have successfully been used to control COVID in other countries and were later relaxed as conditions eased. I would suggest that problem is that a significant slice of the US population think they are more competent medically than the experts. Rather astounding considering the USA has the worst per-capita death rate from COVID in the world - clearly the populous can't be that savvy, medically speaking.

We didn't like what our medical experts said, but we listened and acted as a population - now we are enjoying the rewards of the hard yards. Although it is a bit of a two-edged sword because the EU has stopped some shipments of the vaccines coming to us because our situation is so good.

We all reap what we have sewn. I think I know who got a better crop.
Assertions without meaningful data are meaningless.  My discussions get to the heart of what I see are the problems with the pseudo-scientific approach utilizing PCR as a means of mitigating a worldwide virus.  I'm not talking about what country did what better.  This discussion will only become meaningful quite some time from now after everyone resumes normal social commerce.  Do you see that happening any time soon?  Are Australians now hugging, shaking hands, gathering willy-nilly in pubs, attending sporting events just like you used to, and going utterly without masks?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 01, 2021, 11:47:21 AM
This is the first time in medical history that a tool has been available to track the spread of a 'cold' virus.  It's use by 'experts' has been blighted by vacuous assumptions about the efficacy of this tool when applied in real-world situations, e.g. COVID-19.  The tool wasn't honed to this purpose until well after the world-wide dispersion of this virus; hence any assumptions regarding its efficacy can only be validated in hindsight.
The very first google search I did found an article called ""Keeping Track of Viruses" from Microbial Forensics. 2005 : 55–97 which stated:
"The complete genomes of numerous viruses have been sequenced, allowing for the identification of species, strains, and mutants that could never before have been possible. When very little information is known about an emerging infection, the classification system and its wealth of descriptive information is useful; predicting possible routes of transmission and pathogenic consequences based on information known about similar well-studied and previously classified viruses may significantly impact public health practices while the new etiologic agent is under study."
That was 16 years ago, so 2020 is hardly the "first time in medical history". When berating 'experts', it best that the first sentences is not so easily rebuffed.
The 'experts' are leaning heavily toward a seemingly permanent lockdown with mandatory masking.  This is my nightmare scenario.  15 days to flatten the curve has gone on for over a year now, and there's no sign that the 'experts' can see an end point.  What are 'cases' are merely positive PCR tests taken to extreme replications, not true illnesses.  The 'experts' are abusing their power by misusing their tools.
Not surprising that there is no end in sight in the USA. The USA seems exceptionally fractured and unstable, and distinctly anti-medical science, at the moment.

I suggest that it isn't the medical experts that are to blame in the USA, because they are suggesting exactly the things that have successfully been used to control COVID in other countries and were later relaxed as conditions eased. I would suggest that problem is that a significant slice of the US population think they are more competent medically than the experts. Rather astounding considering the USA has the worst per-capita death rate from COVID in the world - clearly the populous can't be that savvy, medically speaking.

We didn't like what our medical experts said, but we listened and acted as a population - now we are enjoying the rewards of the hard yards. Although it is a bit of a two-edged sword because the EU has stopped some shipments of the vaccines coming to us because our situation is so good.

We all reap what we have sewn. I think I know who got a better crop.
Assertions without meaningful data are meaningless.  My discussions get to the heart of what I see are the problems with the pseudo-scientific approach utilizing PCR as a means of mitigating a worldwide virus.  I'm not talking about what country did what better.  This discussion will only become meaningful quite some time from now after everyone resumes normal social commerce.  Do you see that happening any time soon?  Are Australians now hugging, shaking hands, gathering willy-nilly in pubs, attending sporting events just like you used to, and going utterly without masks?
PCR is just a test that has around since at least 2005. The followup of potentially infected people and restricting them until the diseases runs its course is shown to be effective in quite a few countries around the world. Results speak for themselves. That is why how countries fared is relevant because successful countries used those techniques, other that did not fare so well, didn't or didn't do it well. I've provided a few examples of countries where it has worked, what do you suggest provides evidence that it is pseudo-science.

I don't wear a mask in public, going into public places or shops, on buses or trains, or in medical clinics or hospitals (except in the public wards). I have to wear a mask when in the airport and on a plane, I would guess. I *think* one has to wear a mask if the cinema is over 50% full. Except if there is an active outbreak, I can basically do what I like, where I like and when I like. If I want 50 to 200 people at my house for a party, I need a COVID-Safe Plan - pretty much a template exercise.

Not much into team sports, but recently saw reports of 40,000 and 50,000 at local stadium games - probably about 50%~60% capacity, but don't know normal crowd sizes. Also not into pub crawling these days, but no restrictions on dancing, groups can sit together, but there should be about 1.25 sq metres per person in the venue. I'd guess no mosh pit.

As to hugging and shaking hands. No change if you know the person, however for meeting a new person I have seen a change in automatic response to greetings that I think will be the "new normal" even after COVID.


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 01, 2021, 11:59:33 AM
This is complete misinformation.   The US is not even close to the highest death rate per capita. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

So much for being anti-medicine.
Apologies. you are absolutely correct and I am wrong. I missed the date on the page I was looking at.
It is currently the 12th (of 153 countries) as of 30th March 2021.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on April 01, 2021, 12:03:12 PM
Unless every person worldwide is tested simultaneously, there are gaping holes in the 'science'.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 01, 2021, 12:15:38 PM
Unless every person worldwide is tested simultaneously, there are gaping holes in the 'science'.
Sorry that doesn't make any sense to me. Are you suggesting that no test at all is worth a cracker, because that has never be done for ANYTHING, medical or otherwise?

What exactly about this medical test requires this rather extraordinary assessment?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on April 01, 2021, 01:45:16 PM
Unless every person worldwide is tested simultaneously, there are gaping holes in the 'science'.
Sorry that doesn't make any sense to me. Are you suggesting that no test at all is worth a cracker, because that has never be done for ANYTHING, medical or otherwise?

What exactly about this medical test requires this rather extraordinary assessment?
You're task is interdicting a virus with certainty.  You need to know where it is, and only if the PCR testing is accomplished simultaneously can you hope to prevent its further spread by isolating the proven carriers.  If you only test known contacts or those with suspicious symptoms, or random individuals it's game over because your pathogen will continue on its way from host to host.  This strategy was doomed to failure from the outset merely on theoretical grounds.  COVID-19 is with us, and it's not going away.

Protect the vulnerable and let us get on with our lives, please.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 01, 2021, 03:32:33 PM
......a significant slice of the US population think they are more competent medically than the experts. Rather astounding considering the USA has the worst per-capita death rate from COVID in the world ......

Herein lies much of the issue.

Maybe not the per capita.......but leading in most other factors. Not a distinction you want.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 01, 2021, 03:41:18 PM
I think it is very important to use science to make decisions.  Fauci or other government "experts" are not science.  Unfortunately we can believe in science, or we can believe in myth and lies.  The myth and lies have won.

Transmission is unlikely through asymptomatic persons:

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab271/6193430?searchresult=1

......

"Conclusions
Asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic transmission play an important role in spreading infection, although asymptomatic cases pose a lower risk of transmission than symptomatic cases. "

I think unlikely is the wrong modifier.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 01, 2021, 06:33:05 PM
Unless every person worldwide is tested simultaneously, there are gaping holes in the 'science'.
Sorry that doesn't make any sense to me. Are you suggesting that no test at all is worth a cracker, because that has never be done for ANYTHING, medical or otherwise?

What exactly about this medical test requires this rather extraordinary assessment?
You're task is interdicting a virus with certainty.  You need to know where it is, and only if the PCR testing is accomplished simultaneously can you hope to prevent its further spread by isolating the proven carriers.  If you only test known contacts or those with suspicious symptoms, or random individuals it's game over because your pathogen will continue on its way from host to host.  This strategy was doomed to failure from the outset merely on theoretical grounds.  COVID-19 is with us, and it's not going away.
I'm struggling to see the point of making these claims to me when I live in a country that successfully did exactly that.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on April 01, 2021, 06:49:38 PM
...
I'm struggling to see the point of making these claims to me when I live in a country that successfully did exactly that.
My apologies.  Congratulations are obviously in order on your country's successful eradication of COVID-19 from within your shores!

Oh, I also want to see verified PCR test documentation on your entire population as proof so we can trumpet this achievement to all.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 01, 2021, 07:18:07 PM
The Texas Rangers will play before 40,000+ fans tonight. Either Texas will cease to exist by morning....or it won't. Rather obvious what both sides think of the others opinion.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 01, 2021, 07:25:50 PM
We'll still be here smiling as usual. We've sacrificed enough on this alter to stupidity and politics, it's time to get back to normal living, let the chips fall where they may.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 01, 2021, 09:19:26 PM
Woo Hoo! Vaccine opened up to 55 plus here on Saturday.

Let us know how things are after Easter for y'all.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 01, 2021, 09:21:56 PM
My bad, the Rangers don't have their home opener til Monday. Texans get a reprieve.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: sky_watcher on April 01, 2021, 09:43:40 PM
...
I'm struggling to see the point of making these claims to me when I live in a country that successfully did exactly that.
My apologies.  Congratulations are obviously in order on your country's successful eradication of COVID-19 from within your shores!

Oh, I also want to see verified PCR test documentation on your entire population as proof so we can trumpet this achievement to all.
:lol: Good one. Had a great laugh - that one really cracked me up!!

I guess you are also worried because there is no "verified PCR test documentation on your entire population as proof" to show that we are not infected by a space-virus as well.  :lol:

It is always good to end with a giggle and that one certainly gave it to me. Have a nice day.


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: gwwilk on April 01, 2021, 09:47:51 PM
I just spent the last day mostly reading a truly fascinating book, "The Code Breaker", by Walter Isaacson.  The book's protagonist, Jennifer Doudna, along with her collaborator won a Nobel Prize (in an unprecedentedly brief 8 years after their seminal work) for their transformative discoveries in gene editing that alter the future of medicine, collaborative research, and humanity.  Ubiquitous home diagnostic test kits for viruses, bacteria, blood tests, and more could be just over the horizon.

Perhaps the future really is at hand!  There are some sticky ethical conundrums that come as baggage and which must be dealt with, but that's true of every revolutionary scientific breakthrough.

I highly recommend this book!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 01, 2021, 10:34:23 PM
I got my 2nd a few weeks ago. So I am fully vaccinated...I guess.

I feel uncomfortable in big crowds.  Still feel safe in school. Kids are apart, we have overflow space. Masks are expected.

All good here. Wife is done. Kid 1 is done. Kid 2 gets her first dose on Monday.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 02, 2021, 03:25:28 AM
Woo Hoo! Vaccine opened up to 55 plus here on Saturday.

Let us know how things are after Easter for y'all.

As of March 29, all Oklahomans 16 and older became vaccine-eligible.  Oklahoma currently ranks No. 45 for new daily cases at eight cases per 100,000 people. Hopefully, with many more people now able to get vaccinated, new cases won't go up fast.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 03, 2021, 04:59:51 PM
A second view of this whole kabuki dance. My friend of 50 years through thick and thin in Denver was the rock center of my life, unmovable, he was the bother neither of ever had. He had pneumonia recently and in late Feb drove himself to the ER with breathing problems. They worked on him and after extensive testing determined he had IPF Idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis. They continued to test him for Covid and could not find a single instance of the virus in him. He was allowed to go home into hospice care, I received news on March 25th (the worst Bday present ever) and wrote him a long letter expecting to visit him in July after the reunion in NE. I received a note from his widow Thursday saying he had passed Weds evening March 31st, it was that aggressive and that fast. She confirmed there was never a single test indicating Covid, how many others may have been misdiagnosed and passed with Covid on their death cert? We'll never know, the politics of this whole thing have completely obscured the truth.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 03, 2021, 06:08:30 PM
I'm sure there must be some. Nothing is absolute. I would not put credence in any assertion of malfeasance or mass occurence though.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 03, 2021, 06:15:08 PM
Ok David,
Help me with your assertion, I'm not a scholar and unpacking your prose leaves me empty? What exactly in poor mans language does that mean?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Jim_S on April 03, 2021, 07:27:12 PM
He was allowed to go home into hospice care, I received news on March 25th (the worst Bday present ever) and wrote him a long letter expecting to visit him in July after the reunion in NE. I received a note from his widow Thursday saying he had passed Weds evening March 31st, it was that aggressive and that fast.
That's terrible, I'm very sorry for your loss.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 03, 2021, 08:22:36 PM
Ok David,
Help me with your assertion, I'm not a scholar and unpacking your prose leaves me empty? What exactly in poor mans language does that mean?

It has been said numbers were inflated to great degrees through purposeful mis-reporting.

I concur.there must be more than the isolated incident you related but I dont believe in massive over-reporting.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 04, 2021, 12:38:12 PM
David, down here we've politicized everything from soup to nuts and this is a big one. I'd not bet a plug nickel on any number reported today by anyone. The numbers have been skewed by people with an agenda and we'll never know the truth of the matter. If you doubt that, you've not been paying much attention to your neighbor to the South who have embarked on an insanity tour to nowhere.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 04, 2021, 01:02:06 PM
Have no doubt. Overall the numbers on record cannot be accurate, lots occurred and never got logged I would bet.

Judging by what we have witnessed top administrators do I suppose one should not doubt nearly any level of unsavory acts.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 04, 2021, 03:51:12 PM
Just remember to always test the situation with "follow the money and power" to see who might gain from what is happening and you'll find the truth. And there is a lot of money flowing and a whole lot of petty, would be, dictators are feeling their oats right now.

And, in Texas, 3 weeks after the face diaper stupidity was lifted:
https://hotair.com/archives/allahpundit/2021/04/03/texas-sees-lowest-daily-average-covid-cases-since-last-june-three-weeks-mask-mandate-lifted/
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 04, 2021, 06:11:22 PM
I think the article lines it up pretty well. More outdoor action and no big increase in indoor "commercial" gathering plus a good step in vaccine.......makes sense that removing masks is not actually that risky for Texans.

The faster spreading variants are causing some.jurisdictions to see upticks even thouh other factors going well.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 04, 2021, 10:02:28 PM
Have no doubt. Overall the numbers on record cannot be accurate, lots occurred and never got logged I would bet.

Judging by what we have witnessed top administrators do I suppose one should not doubt nearly any level of unsavory acts.
I don't think the cases and deaths are far off.  I bet about any hospital administrator will tell that their huge case load of covid patients has been far more challenging to deal with than it was during the worst year from the flu.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 04, 2021, 10:19:42 PM
Have no doubt. Overall the numbers on record cannot be accurate, lots occurred and never got logged I would bet.

Judging by what we have witnessed top administrators do I suppose one should not doubt nearly any level of unsavory acts.
I bet about any hospital administrator will tell that their huge case load of covid patients has been far more challenging to deal with than it was during the worst year from the flu.
And I'll bet the reason for that is it's new, the incessant, impending doom that has been driven down our throats, so naturally people are unsure and afraid. Before covid, unless you have an underling issues or whatnot, I think a vast majority would never go to the hospital.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 07, 2021, 01:36:49 AM
I saw this comment about the fiasco of the little girl and her family on a Spirit Air flight from earlier today and thought I'd share.

"For those who want some perspective on masks, I was formerly with the US Army's Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical warfare department at Ft McClellan. I know what protects against viruses and what does not. The best mask one can get today is an N95 medical mask (though almost none of us can get one of these masks). An N95 mask will protect you against 95% of viruses and bacteria which are 300nm or larger. A coronavirus is 50nm. Expecting an N95 mask to stop a coronavirus is like expecting a softball can be stopped by a basketball hoop.

A normal medical grade mask is much less than 95% effective against any virus, even if you are replacing it every hour, which is proper mask protocol. In any event, masks are not designed to protect people from viruses, they are designed to protect against bacteria. When comparing size, imagining a bacterium to be the size of a man, a virus would be the size of a mouse.

The entire mask farce is ludicrous. First, almost everyone on that flight was wearing either a dust mask or a cloth face cover, neither of which are effective against stopping coronaviruses. Does Spirit Airlines actually check to see that everyone is wearing a clean new mask? Because a mask which has been worn for hours does not only not stop the transmission of viruses, it increases transmission. These masks accumulate viral matter, and once they are saturated, you are blowing out more viruses than if you were wearing no mask at all.
"
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 07, 2021, 08:22:06 AM
The face diaper tyranny will continue as long as we the sheeple allow it and dutifully fall in line without complaining. Sadly, some of us have not only fallen for the ruse but are promoting it.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: johnd on April 07, 2021, 08:42:11 AM
The face diaper tyranny will continue as long as we the sheeple allow it and dutifully fall in line without complaining. Sadly, some of us have not only fallen for the ruse but are promoting it.

Isn't the problem more the sheeple that seem totally unable to think for themselves and slavishly follow the instructions of their masters to use such ignorant phrases as 'the face diaper tyranny'?
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 07, 2021, 09:10:12 AM
I associated it more with South Park......but that's just me.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 07, 2021, 03:13:17 PM
I would think a virologist would respond to quotes like this concerning the efficacy of face masks:

I saw this comment about the fiasco of the little girl and her family on a Spirit Air flight from earlier today and thought I'd share.

"For those who want some perspective on masks, I was formerly with the US Army's Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical warfare department at Ft McClellan. I know what protects against viruses and what does not. The best mask one can get today is an N95 medical mask (though almost none of us can get one of these masks). An N95 mask will protect you against 95% of viruses and bacteria which are 300nm or larger. A coronavirus is 50nm. Expecting an N95 mask to stop a coronavirus is like expecting a softball can be stopped by a basketball hoop.

A normal medical grade mask is much less than 95% effective against any virus, even if you are replacing it every hour, which is proper mask protocol. In any event, masks are not designed to protect people from viruses, they are designed to protect against bacteria. When comparing size, imagining a bacterium to be the size of a man, a virus would be the size of a mouse.

The entire mask farce is ludicrous. First, almost everyone on that flight was wearing either a dust mask or a cloth face cover, neither of which are effective against stopping coronaviruses. Does Spirit Airlines actually check to see that everyone is wearing a clean new mask? Because a mask which has been worn for hours does not only not stop the transmission of viruses, it increases transmission. These masks accumulate viral matter, and once they are saturated, you are blowing out more viruses than if you were wearing no mask at all.
"


Rather than just criticizing someone for the way they compared face masks to diapers.

I agree the face mask and diaper analogy, while humorous, isn't very accurate.  Diapers work, they actually keep #### in.

I appreciate any virologist, especially one who accepts propaganda as fact and science, who is selling weather stations rather than making public policy.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 07, 2021, 05:12:46 PM
Just returned from a lovely day in the Hill Country of Texas having lunch with friends in the small town of Blanco. Wonderful food, the place was packed inside and out, we sat out in the TX sunshine and enjoyed the day and not a mask in sight inside or out. Stopped by the lake on the way home, no masks there, I'm sure some will cheer believing all of us in TX will die by the end of the month.

PS: snowhiker, I thought one of the big whines is about "don't you care about us, wear your mask so you don't contaminate others"? - or did I miss something. As I've said, I don't intend to get it, so the mask is tyranny to me. As far as protecting others, I haven't got it, how can I give it?

But then again I suppose some would take offense to my Come And Take It tee shirt, they'll get over it.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 07, 2021, 06:52:43 PM
Just returned from a lovely day in the Hill Country of Texas having lunch with friends in the small town of Blanco. Wonderful food, the place was packed inside and out, we sat out in the TX sunshine and enjoyed the day and not a mask in sight inside or out. Stopped by the lake on the way home, no masks there, I'm sure some will cheer believing all of us in TX will die by the end of the month.

PS: snowhiker, I thought one of the big whines is about "don't you care about us, wear your mask so you don't contaminate others"? - or did I miss something. As I've said, I don't intend to get it, so the mask is tyranny to me. As far as protecting others, I haven't got it, how can I give it?

But then again I suppose some would take offense to my Come And Take It tee shirt, they'll get over it.
Nice to see and hear about people who are actually enjoying life and trying to live like normal people.

Yeah, I just heard Dr. Fauci, Falsey, or whatever his name is, is “confused” as to why cases in Texas are way down after they dropped their mask mandate.  I think he said one factor may be people are doing a lot of things outside in Texas now.  I wonder if that means he'll give the okay for people to start coming out of their houses?  Probably not, he's still predicting dire consequences for Texas opening up, he's just not real sure as to why the Virus seems to be delaying its attack while the rate of infection is higher in more well-behaved and obedient states.

I forget the timeline and details so someone can correct me, but as I recall, Falsey first told us not to wear masks because they don't help.  Then he said he lied, but we should trust him from now on when he says to wear masks.  And then weren't we to wear them for 15 days or something to "flatten the curve"?  I guess days turn into months and months into eons.  Initially I think the idea was that we were to wear masks largely to protect ourselves, but then people realized it is easier to shame people into protecting others, so that became their focus. 

Even if masks were effective it doesn't seem reasonable to make people who have had the virus and those who have been vaccinated, and are thus presumably immune for at least some time, to continue to wear masks and hide under their beds.  It seems I heard it's even questionable if someone with no symptoms could spread it.  But then again, I guess they will shame you for making others feel uncomfortable because they don't know you have antibodies and/or aren't ill and should be safe.

Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 07, 2021, 07:17:04 PM
I don't allow anyone to shame me for anything, end of subject.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 08, 2021, 12:41:51 AM
Agreed.  People who do allow themselves to be manipulated will find that it never stops.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 11, 2021, 09:43:40 PM
2000 people got vaccinated with J&J on Thursday in my town on Thursday:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/osu-vaccine-pod-called-a-success-as-oklahoma-gains-ground-on-immunity-efforts/article_2b316f32-9999-11eb-8a4e-07f41f604a09.html (https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/osu-vaccine-pod-called-a-success-as-oklahoma-gains-ground-on-immunity-efforts/article_2b316f32-9999-11eb-8a4e-07f41f604a09.html)
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on April 15, 2021, 03:19:38 PM
Bunty, have you heard of anyone having problems after they took the vaccine?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/JJUpdate.html
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: AWL on April 16, 2021, 02:24:16 PM
New studies being released showing that the immune system of people who have had covid have a long lasting natural immunity is great news. Combining all the people who have had covid with those who have received the vaccinations is a large enough number that hopefully this will soon be a bad memory in our rear view mirror. Now if they focus on those who have not had covid to receive a vaccination we can hurry this along. Best of wishes for everyone!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Bunty on April 17, 2021, 03:20:03 AM
Bunty, have you heard of anyone having problems after they took the vaccine?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/JJUpdate.html

Not locally.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Garth Bock on April 17, 2021, 09:09:07 PM
I took a long nap the afternoon after i got my second. I told the nurse the list of side effects (joint aches, fatigue, etc.) were identical to old age.... 😆. Everyone in my family has gotten either the Pfizer or the Moderna with little to no side effects (we are over 60). I would go with the Pfizer because its numbers are better.

What makes me sad is there are so many that bought into the hoaxes on Fakebook. Now that there might be a need for a booster next year they are trying to use that as proof that this is either a hoax or the vaccine is poison or nonsense like that. I told one that he is the reason a booster will be needed and i hope he didn't bring it home and kill his wife, kids and parents. Luckily he read a story in the news about that happening to a family and went and got vaccinated.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 17, 2021, 10:16:54 PM
What makes me sad is there are so many that bought into the hoaxes on Fakebook.
You kiddin' me? Half the country is oblivious to what is happening in their own back yard. Exactly the way MSM, BT, SM, ect. want it.

People need to wise up....NOW.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 18, 2021, 11:34:10 AM
You totally misunderstand what is happening. I could care less about whether you wear a mask, gloves whatever makes you happy and secure, that's called freedom, liberty. If you want to become a hypochondriac fearing the slightest breath of change, go for it. Seal your house, seal your windows, seal your doors, do it all, live in a cocoon if you like, I don't care, why? - because it's none of my business how you choose to like as long as it's within the law. And that brings us to my doorstep, it's none of your business how I live, I believe I've made my position clear on masks, anti-social distancing etc. So, you live the way you want to, but get off my lawn, it's none of your business what I believe and don't come at me with threats and shaming, it doesn't work, I was born free, I live free. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 18, 2021, 01:28:56 PM
Maybe you can explain why Texas and Florida have open economies and are doing just fine while Michigan and NY have draconian measures and are spiking. Here's a little something for you to wade through https://americanconservativemovement.com/2021/04/17/stanford-study-quietly-published-at-nih-gov-proves-face-masks-are-absolutely-worthless-against-covid/ Of course it's from a little known second rate organization.

So far this foolishness has cost me the opportunity to visit two uncles and a dear friend of 50 years before they died. It's cost me money, it drives my blood pressure right off the map every time I have to buy groceries and depresses me when I see small and large businesses driven out of business. The suicide rates for all ages from children to elder are up significantly and yet you want me to pretend that wearing a piece of cloth on my face is making a difference - which BTW it can't because I don't have a virus so I can't give it, but that doesn't make any difference does it?

And yes, given the opportunity, I will die free, not encumbered by a lot of pseudo science.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 18, 2021, 03:16:17 PM
YET,  we are flooded on the media by people in congress who want us not to wear masks, gloves, they want us to pack into crowded venues and they really don't care. Maybe they figure if the right people get the virus and die, then others can take over their jobs and the employment rate goes up.
That's a big part of the problem today.  Rather than using a certain amount of reason, looking at facts, and not automatically believing everything the Socialist Pravda (MSM) says, people attack everything they don't agree with as EVIL.  "They don't care! They want us to die!"

People have been taught to be so simple minded today.  They are unable to understand concepts such as unintended consequences.  Something is right in their eyes, and anyone who disagrees is racist, sexist, or just plain evil.  Politics has even turned "science" into a joke.  "Science" is all just theory now.  Theory says everyone needs to wear a mask and live in a bomb shelter for the rest of their lives.  "Science" is no longer evidence based, people are unable to look at history or the results of their actions and see any correlation.  Their thoughts are good, so therefore they can't be wrong, and if you disagree with them, then you're bad.

I believe people are also more self-centered than ever today.  People who are on pensions with no gainful employment or much to look forward to, are telling others that they need to live as they do so that we can protect them.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 18, 2021, 03:38:41 PM

 I think I have put in my dues over the last 53 years to be retired.  I have a lot to look forward to and I am not going to tell you what to do with your life.
BUT your inference about us retired people says a lot about the people you think you represent.   Personally I do not care if you or your posse wear masks, social distance, vaccinate or drink out of the community garden hose.

I really believe in natural selection, maybe if all of you who scream about your rights, and that you don't care,  would you please get this virus and die off and leave the rest of what is left to those who built this country, rather than you self righteous cry babies with you gun rights , your first amendment rights.

You make me sick.
Here we see a great example of the reason and compassion of the left!

I'm glad Joe (Aardvark) doesn't do any of the things he accuses others of.  :lol:  :roll:
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 18, 2021, 03:53:24 PM

 I think I have put in my dues over the last 53 years to be retired.  I have a lot to look forward to and I am not going to tell you what to do with your life.
BUT your inference about us retired people says a lot about the people you think you represent.   Personally I do not care if you or your posse wear masks, social distance, vaccinate or drink out of the community garden hose.

I really believe in natural selection, maybe if all of you who scream about your rights, and that you don't care,  would you please get this virus and die off and leave the rest of what is left to those who built this country, rather than you self righteous cry babies with you gun rights , your first amendment rights.

You make me sick.
I just want to make it clear, I am not attacking retired people, just those who don't seem to realize that there are others who need to make a living and don't have the luxury of staying home and not continuing to live their lives.

Quote
BUT your inference about us retired people says a lot about the people you think you represent.
I'm glad you at least acknowledge that it is only an inference, as that at least helps show that you are reading into my words in order to attack rather than to reason.

Quote
I have a lot to look forward to and I am not going to tell you what to do with your life.
Quote
Personally I do not care if you or your posse wear masks, social distance, vaccinate or drink out of the community garden hose.
Yet all you've done is whine about and accuse those who aren't wearing masks everywhere and social distancing.  So your words mean nothing.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 18, 2021, 04:39:57 PM
The other evening I watched a 1961 movie Judgement At Nuremberg. Burt Lancaster playing the part of one of the accused judges on trial made an impassioned speech and to paraphrase he said "how could we not know what was going on (in Germany) were we deaf, dumb, blind, how could we not know - or was it because we didn't want to know? It was a great performance and I've re-watched it several times and it says a lot about human nature and our current times. Many people don't want to know, they don't want to think for themselves, they're led like the people in cattle cars in Germany, oblivious to the reality of what is happening and being perpetrated on their basic liberties as granted by the Constitution.

You cannot prove in a court of law a single person has not died by wearing a mask. You can speculate and throw numbers around, but you can't absolutely prove with empirical proof that masks have saved a single person. But, as the Stanford article noted, it can be proven the masks are detrimental in many ways, yet we drag them along with us.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 18, 2021, 05:46:04 PM
Do what you will, as I said, it's none of my concern until you show up at my door figuratively or actually. Otherwise I'm suffering liblexia on this thread and see no further need to continue.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Intheswamp on April 18, 2021, 06:06:30 PM
Quote from: Aardvark
I really believe in natural selection, maybe if all of you who scream about your rights, and that you don't care,  would you please get this virus and die off and leave the rest of what is left to those who built this country, rather than you self righteous cry babies with you gun rights , your first amendment rights.

You make me sick.
Quote from: Aardvark
I believe I am no longer going to post on this thread.   Seems that it is expected I play nice and respect other peoples opinion, but then again there are those people who say cruel, mean spirited things to other people.    Don't take it personally (unless you want to) but I am done here.   I am going to head toward weather items to see if I can lend a hand to someone who needs help with something.  1993 was when I started with the weather station and that time has passed so fast and I lost some real good friends along the way, life takes them away it seems.

A last thought.   You have to decide what is best for you.  I am just going to avoid being around you if I can. 

You did not delete your message before I saw it and started responding.  I wear masks and don't really mind it much.  I keep hand sanitizer in my Jeep.  I respect folks who want to social distance from me.  I'm not one who wishes to go inside to dine-in (at the moment).  I also believe that this virus has an extremely high level of politicization blended into it...so much that I don't know if we will ever know the true severity of it.  I believe, too, that people hiding out in there "safe places" will have health and psychological issues from isolating themselves from the rest of humanity.  But, I don't want to go to a crowded ballgame, either.  To be careful is one thing, to be paranoid is another.

I've mostly just followed along in this thread,...and seeing extremes on either side.  But, I will say that by your comment above, Aardvark, where you state "...would you please get this virus and die off...", that your credibility just turned to dust.  Your user name will only be passed by without noting what you say in the future.  Difference of opinions is one thing...ill will toward others as extreme as proposing death to someone is destructive and divisive...a totalitarian view lacking human compassion.  Btw, encouraging someone to die off...seems that's kind of nasty to say to someone.  I wish you well and hopefully a more loving heart towards your fellow man. 

Lastly I want to address an small comment that you made.  I believe in our Constitution.  "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."  December 15, 1791  It has stood the test of time for over 230 years.  It is not to be interpreted but is a literal statement.  Those who defend the Constitution and freedom of the USA are definitely not cry babies.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 18, 2021, 06:48:41 PM
Quote from: Aardvark
I really believe in natural selection, maybe if all of you who scream about your rights, and that you don't care,  would you please get this virus and die off and leave the rest of what is left to those who built this country, rather than you self righteous cry babies with you gun rights , your first amendment rights.

You make me sick.
  Those who defend the Constitution and freedom of the USA are definitely not cry babies.
No, we're not. I swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States not just once, but twice, and considered it an honor and privilege to do so. It is under unprecedented attack to be turned into nothing more than toilet paper. They obviously know we're too stoopid to see the truth.

BTW, we make you sick? Sounds like you have the bases covered already as is by yourself. Go hunker down with Joey in the basement....exactly where you/they want us all to be.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on April 18, 2021, 06:59:57 PM
Some food for thought.  The study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/) with the claims of non-efficacy regarding masks was a "theoretical hypothesis", and was deemed false/misleading here (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/apr/16/diamond-and-silk/medical-hypotheses-journal-article-lacks-evidence-/), yet widely spread by posts and some media.

A pandemic is an emergency, and we should do all we can to avoid spreading the disease to one another.  Yes, your 'liberty' might be impinged for the good of the larger society.  The sooner we curtail the spread, the less impact on the health care infrastructure, and then we can return to normal interactions.  Now, minimizing contact with people outside your household, minimizing droplet spread by distancing and masking when outside your household, and hand sanitizing are what we can do for each other while we wait for the vaccinated percentage to stop the spread.

That such simple public health items can be so vehemently resisted/politicized is something I don't understand.   
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 18, 2021, 07:17:28 PM
That such simple public health items can be so vehemently resisted/politicized is something I don't understand.
Because "Dr." Fauci is a nothing more than a political mouth piece that say what his "handlers" tell him to say and craves the limelight. He's waffled more than IHOP. Isn't it funny that the "left" states that are still locked down are continually seeing the jump while the "red" states have kids in school, no mask requirement, ect. and life is "somewhat" returning to normal and Covid is dropping like a rock. Hmmmm...now that sounds like science to me, and you'll be hard pressed to see MSM telling it "like it is". It's not the narrative. It's not control.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 18, 2021, 07:18:28 PM
Quote from: Aardvark
I really believe in natural selection, maybe if all of you who scream about your rights, and that you don't care,  would you please get this virus and die off and leave the rest of what is left to those who built this country, rather than you self righteous cry babies with you gun rights , your first amendment rights.

You make me sick.
  Those who defend the Constitution and freedom of the USA are definitely not cry babies.
No, we're not. I swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States not just once, but twice, and considered it an honor and privilege to do so. It is under unprecedented attack to be turned into nothing more than toilet paper. They obviously know we're too stoopid to see the truth.

BTW, we make you sick? Sounds like you have the bases covered already as is by yourself. Go hunker down with Joey in the basement....exactly where you/they want us all to be.
I would rather be in the basement with the President than hosting super spreaders,  telling lies, and encouraging supporters to go kill capitol police doing their jobs.   I want you do do your job and be outside on the front lines, in the thick of it all. 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 18, 2021, 07:18:48 PM
"Yes, your 'liberty' might be impinged for the good of the larger society" Wow, that has a chilling ring to it, for the "greater good" of the people, I think that was addressed nicely in the movie I just mentioned - "for love of country" as it was said then.

You are kidding about quoting politifact as a credible source? - like I said, liblexia.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 18, 2021, 07:28:06 PM
That such simple public health items can be so vehemently resisted/politicized is something I don't understand.
Because "Dr." Fauci is a nothing more than a political mouth piece that say what his "handlers" tell him to say and craves the limelight. He's waffled more than IHOP. Isn't it funny that the "left" states that are still locked down are continually seeing the jump while the "red" states have kids in school, no mask requirement, ect. and life is "somewhat" returning to normal and Covid is dropping like a rock. Hmmmm...now that sounds like science to me, and you'll be hard pressed to see MSM telling it "like it is". It's not the narrative. It's not control.
For a long time I have thought that the statistics presented are manipulated.   In Iowa the greatest number of people testing positive are the 18-29 year olds.  The old folks seem to have either mitigated or died off. However,  why is it a problem to decide what to do.  It is akin to selection of what brand of toilet paper to get.  As long as it isn't corn cobs, it is fine. (unless you have a septic system, then you have to be careful).   Sorry environmental geology kicking in, dang graduate school.    Wear the mask, don't wear the mask,   superspread, don't super spread.   Look the country is opening up. People need to work and some precautions need to happen.   

When my grandfather came to this country, there was a 4th of July parade.  Someone on a float asked my grandpa if he would come up with the "other Americans," He was a naturalized citizen back in the 1900s,  he replied, "No, thankyou.  I think I will stand here and enjoy the parade. But for sure I am going to keep my eye on the SOB waving our flag." 

Same deal,  Some in the military may have taken the oath of protecting the constitution from foreign and domestic, but they more sure wore protection in combat areas, because they were told to and they were afraid on the consequences of not doing that.  So what is so wrong with being asked to wear a cool mask in public crowds, you can take it off in your car, your house, your property, boat, plane, what ever.   I don't see the problem.

You know if you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 18, 2021, 07:35:30 PM
That such simple public health items can be so vehemently resisted/politicized is something I don't understand.
Because "Dr." Fauci is a nothing more than a political mouth piece that say what his "handlers" tell him to say and craves the limelight. He's waffled more than IHOP. Isn't it funny that the "left" states that are still locked down are continually seeing the jump while the "red" states have kids in school, no mask requirement, ect. and life is "somewhat" returning to normal and Covid is dropping like a rock. Hmmmm...now that sounds like science to me, and you'll be hard pressed to see MSM telling it "like it is". It's not the narrative. It's not control.
You know if you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
You damn sure at least got that right.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: saratogaWX on April 18, 2021, 07:37:47 PM
I find it somewhat amusing that the slurs you espouse about Dr. Fauci are the same as espoused by the opinion shows on multiple media outlets.

Dr. Fauci has years of experience actually fighting disease.  He doesn't have 'handlers' nor does he 'crave the limelight' -- he appears often in media to continue expressing the current policies based on science.  Yes, he'd changed from 'no masks' to 'yes masks' as the former was to prevent a run on the limited PPE quantities and reserve them for hospital workers, and the position changed when science showed mask wearing to reduce the spread and additional PPE quantities became available.

Your empirical conclusions about government entities applying strict v.s. lax public health measures really needs some data to back that up.
I find Johns Hopkins (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/us/) to be a good source of current Covid19 data.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 18, 2021, 07:42:34 PM
That's right....get fully vaccinated and STILL wear a mask and LOCK DOWN baby....LOCK DOWN.

China will own us before Joey has to take the 25th.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 18, 2021, 07:47:09 PM
I see Oregon is considering making it permanent. That's where it goes from here. The only problem with all this is that they all look around and see that Texas doesn't believe in all that malarkey, is doing fine and want to move down here and of course bring all their bad habits with them - ha.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 18, 2021, 07:47:35 PM
A question and assertion.

If masks are totally useless, what is it that has caused me to see not one case of even sniffles of any kind for over one year now? Not me or anybody I know.

If it is not the masks, tell me what it is and I will do it diligently.

I still assert that any claims of efficacy of any measure in the general population cannot be used in any argument. We have no data to assess what the level of compliance was to any order.

A mask may be ciritcized for not stopping small particles but does it not seem locgial that it will stop large droplets containing many small particles within them?

Aerosol is not covered though I think. Masks need to fit better.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: davidmc36 on April 18, 2021, 07:52:37 PM
Texas is being paraded as great?

Still 9th state on new cases and rigth on par with national cases/million...

Just average I would say.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: stevebrtx on April 18, 2021, 08:02:20 PM
Sorry, I have zero confidence in any of the reporting these days, it's all been politicized to the point it's useless.

After 78 years I can generally tell if I feel good or bad. I have a thermometer laying right in front of my keyboard, if I felt bad, had a reduced sense of smell or taste and even a single degree of temperature increase I'd not go out in public until I figured out what the problem was. When you talk about droplets, you're talking about a serious cough or sneeze, I can't imagine sneezing in the grocery store these days, the millennial blade runners would be on you in a second, your crystal would be "out"!
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 18, 2021, 08:54:03 PM
A question and assertion.

If masks are totally useless, what is it that has caused me to see not one case of even sniffles of any kind for over one year now? Not me or anybody I know.

If it is not the masks, tell me what it is and I will do it diligently.

I still assert that any claims of efficacy of any measure in the general population cannot be used in any argument. We have no data to assess what the level of compliance was to any order.

A mask may be ciritcized for not stopping small particles but does it not seem locgial that it will stop large droplets containing many small particles within them?

Aerosol is not covered though I think. Masks need to fit better.
The only people of note who claim masks are not effective are Rand Paul, Donald Trump, Jim Jordan, Tucker Carlson. They for some odd reason are telling everyone of their own mind set they are worthless.  It depends on what news source you read or follow.  I read several, including those the GOP contends is good. ( I refrain from calling them the ":right"  because often they are not , but whatever works.)

  The paper surgical masks they hand out are by themselves not that great.  And now, we hear double layers might be great, don't get masks with vents, and all that.  i suspect wearing a paper grocery sack might be a game changer here.   Kidding.

Right now I wear the mask I have attached and under that is a paper mask so I have two layers, and yes it scratches my face, then my nose itches and finally I go bonkers, but I survive it all.    Oddly the photo has me laying down.  arghhhh . 
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 18, 2021, 09:01:19 PM
Sorry, I have zero confidence in any of the reporting these days, it's all been politicized to the point it's useless.

After 78 years I can generally tell if I feel good or bad. I have a thermometer laying right in front of my keyboard, if I felt bad, had a reduced sense of smell or taste and even a single degree of temperature increase I'd not go out in public until I figured out what the problem was. When you talk about droplets, you're talking about a serious cough or sneeze, I can't imagine sneezing in the grocery store these days, the millennial blade runners would be on you in a second, your crystal would be "out"!
   
I am 73. I have my blood glucose meter, my bluetooth thermometer and my blood pressure cuff near by.    I use them more often when I feel like crap, all squishy and warm.  But I have health issues.   I have been tested for Covid , up the snoot before an endoscopy,  and now 2 doses of the Pfizer.  yeah we will need annual boosters with that much like that flu shot stuff.

Having the flu isn't something I want.  When I was teaching, i had the vaccine and always got a sore throat once a year and lost my voice.  I went through bags of sore throat lozenges, nyquil and all that. Now I have been retired almost 8 years and feeling ok  I have other serious health concerns.

If getting this virus would stop at feeling awful I would understand, but it is those who have the heart and lung issues worry me.  Younger people do well if their heart and lungs are just fine, but as we  age, breathing in all the environmental things we can't avoid, that has problems.  I was startled when the doctor told me I had scaring in my lungs, probably from a cold I might have had in my life.  rats.

But yes, I do monitor my health. Our big worry is if one of us has the virus, what happens to the other one?   I su
pose I could go live in a hotel or with my daughter (shudder) but my wife?   I can't take the risk
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: CW2274 on April 18, 2021, 09:16:04 PM
Sorry, I have zero confidence in any of the reporting these days, it's all been politicized to the point it's useless.

After 78 years I can generally tell if I feel good or bad. I have a thermometer laying right in front of my keyboard, if I felt bad, had a reduced sense of smell or taste and even a single degree of temperature increase I'd not go out in public until I figured out what the problem was. When you talk about droplets, you're talking about a serious cough or sneeze, I can't imagine sneezing in the grocery store these days, the millennial blade runners would be on you in a second, your crystal would be "out"!
   
I am 73. I have my blood glucose meter, my bluetooth thermometer and my blood pressure cuff near by.    I use them more often when I feel like crap, all squishy and warm.  But I have health issues.   I have been tested for Covid , up the snoot before an endoscopy,  and now 2 doses of the Pfizer.  yeah we will need annual boosters with that much like that flu shot stuff.

Having the flu isn't something I want.  When I was teaching, i had the vaccine and always got a sore throat once a year and lost my voice.  I went through bags of sore throat lozenges, nyquil and all that. Now I have been retired almost 8 years and feeling ok  I have other serious health concerns.

If getting this virus would stop at feeling awful I would understand, but it is those who have the heart and lung issues worry me.  Younger people do well if their heart and lungs are just fine, but as we  age, breathing in all the environmental things we can't avoid, that has problems.  I was startled when the doctor told me I had scaring in my lungs, probably from a cold I might have had in my life.  rats.

But yes, I do monitor my health. Our big worry is if one of us has the virus, what happens to the other one?   I su
pose I could go live in a hotel or with my daughter (shudder) but my wife?   I can't take the risk
See, you exactly make the point...if you're at risk...STAY HOME. Jeez, just like it's always been since the beginning of mankind, if you're sick or at risk...STAY HOME. And with credit, you apparently do. Don't make the rest of the other 300 million in the country suffer to points we haven't even become to realize yet because of yours and others poor health.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 18, 2021, 10:45:15 PM
Sorry, I have zero confidence in any of the reporting these days, it's all been politicized to the point it's useless.

After 78 years I can generally tell if I feel good or bad. I have a thermometer laying right in front of my keyboard, if I felt bad, had a reduced sense of smell or taste and even a single degree of temperature increase I'd not go out in public until I figured out what the problem was. When you talk about droplets, you're talking about a serious cough or sneeze, I can't imagine sneezing in the grocery store these days, the millennial blade runners would be on you in a second, your crystal would be "out"!
   
e other one?   I su
pose I could go live in a hotel or with my daughter (shudder) but my wife?   I can't take the risk
See, you exactly make the point...if you're at risk...STAY HOME. Jeez, just like it's always been since the beginning of mankind, if you're sick or at risk...STAY HOME. And with credit, you apparently do. Don't make the rest of the other 300 million in the country suffer to points we haven't even become to realize yet because of yours and others poor health.
I have to do just that BECAUSE people who share your opinion are taking my freedoms, my constitutional rights, because you don't care about the damage you are doing to my world.  Yeah, you bring up all that and yet, you are removing my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness from me.  I have to avoid people like you who don't care about me and others like me.    One good thing about my poor health, it isn't contagious, you can't get it from me. However you covid spreaders out there, are ruining this country for the rest of us.
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: SnowHiker on April 19, 2021, 02:40:24 AM
I find it somewhat amusing that the slurs you espouse about Dr. Fauci are the same as espoused by the opinion shows on multiple media outlets.
I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I am curious as to what you are getting at here.  Because "multiple media outlets" have the same opinion as we do, then our opinions must be wrong?  Or that we can't think for ourselves and just regurgitate what "multiple media outlets" say?  Or are you saying that "multiple media outlets" that we share the same opinion with are the same as the "MSM" that we claim to distrust (if so, I wonder if you could give examples)?  Or are you suggesting that while other's opinions are shared by "multiple media outlets", your's aren't, your's are entirely your own?

In any case, I don't see where "multiple media outlets" make something right or wrong, especially as multiple media outlets may disagree with multiple other media outlets.

Dr. Fauci has years of experience actually fighting disease.  He doesn't have 'handlers' nor does he 'crave the limelight' -- he appears often in media to continue expressing the current policies based on science.
It appears to me that is at best opinion.  It very much appears to me that Fauci is not very trustworthy and in fact is enjoying his position and power, and I think he is afraid to go against the WHO, the politics of the day, and even China, especially when those who disagree, no matter what experience they may have, are in danger of being censored.

Yes, he'd changed from 'no masks' to 'yes masks' as the former was to prevent a run on the limited PPE quantities and reserve them for hospital workers, and the position changed when science showed mask wearing to reduce the spread and additional PPE quantities became available.
It wasn't just ever-changing "science", he stated definitively that masks don't work.

Who would have ever thought we'd get to the point where it is considered okay for our leaders and policy makers to outright lie to us because they're supposedly doing it for our own good?  That is more evidence that we are at a very dangerous point in our history.  And at the same time we're being lied to, other opinions, no matter what evidence may be behind them, are being censored as dangerous.  Isn't this how totalitarianism starts?

Couldn't they just have directed the supply of masks to hospitals, which I think is just what they did anyway?  Maybe even encouraged people and organizations to make masks?  Oh, wait, didn't they do that?

I would be ashamed to admit that I lied, but apparently Fauci finds it preferable to saying that he just didn't know what he was talking about.  But, yeah, sure, we can trust him.  :roll:


The only people of note who claim masks are not effective are Rand Paul, Donald Trump, Jim Jordan, Tucker Carlson. They for some odd reason are telling everyone of their own mind set they are worthless.  It depends on what news source you read or follow.  I read several, including those the GOP contends is good. ( I refrain from calling them the ":right"  because often they are not , but whatever works.)
Aardvark, are they really the only people, or just the only ones you know of?  Are you sure they have said they are ineffective, or have they questioned to what extent they are effective?  Are you sure they just made it up on their own without any evidence or listening to knowledgeable people in the field?

This is all another indication of the state we're in.  Aardvark can correct me if I'm wrong, but I saw some of what Jordan and Carlson said, and as I recall they asked questions that Fauci, and apparently many of the "multiple media outlets" and other partisans didn't want asked.  It compounds the danger when not only is it okay for leaders to lie, but questions aren't allowed.

It also further shows the divide; there is no middle ground, either you agree 100%, or you are 100% wrong.  If you question exactly how effective masks are, how long we'll have to continue wearing them, why we have to continue wearing them after getting the vaccine or recovering from the virus; then you're 100% against masks and anti-science and need to be SILENCED!  I think it was Carlson who pointed out that true science used to be based on the ability to ask questions and look for the answers.  But then Carlson's evil for suggesting such a thing, so what he said needs to be taken out of context and misrepresented so we can see how evil he is.

Anyway that's my thoughts, and if you don't agree with me you're evil! :twisted: (At least that seems to be the attitude everyone has any more.  But I know a lot of people are understandably under a lot of stress now days.)


Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: Aardvark on April 19, 2021, 10:58:42 AM
I find it somewhat amusing that the slurs you espouse about Dr. Fauci are the same as espoused by the opinion shows on multiple media outlets.
I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I am curious as to what you are getting at here.  Because "multiple media outlets" have the same opinion as we do, then our opinions must be wrong?  Or that we can't think for ourselves and just regurgitate what "multiple media outlets" say?  Or are you saying that "multiple media outlets" that we share the same opinion with are the same as the "MSM" that we claim to distrust (if so, I wonder if you could give examples)?  Or are you suggesting that while other's opinions are shared by "multiple media outlets", your's aren't, your's are entirely your own?

In any case, I don't see where "multiple media outlets" make something right or wrong, especially as multiple media outlets may disagree with multiple other media outlets.

Dr. Fauci has years of experience actually fighting disease.  He doesn't have 'handlers' nor does he 'crave the limelight' -- he appears often in media to continue expressing the current policies based on science.
It appears to me that is at best opinion.  It very much appears to me that Fauci is not very trustworthy and in fact is enjoying his position and power, and I think he is afraid to go against the WHO, the politics of the day, and even China, especially when those who disagree, no matter what experience they may have, are in danger of being censored.

Yes, he'd changed from 'no masks' to 'yes masks' as the former was to prevent a run on the limited PPE quantities and reserve them for hospital workers, and the position changed when science showed mask wearing to reduce the spread and additional PPE quantities became available.
It wasn't just ever-changing "science", he stated definitively that masks don't work.

Who would have ever thought we'd get to the point where it is considered okay for our leaders and policy makers to outright lie to us because they're supposedly doing it for our own good?  That is more evidence that we are at a very dangerous point in our history.  And at the same time we're being lied to, other opinions, no matter what evidence may be behind them, are being censored as dangerous.  Isn't this how totalitarianism starts?

Couldn't they just have directed the supply of masks to hospitals, which I think is just what they did anyway?  Maybe even encouraged people and organizations to make masks?  Oh, wait, didn't they do that?

I would be ashamed to admit that I lied, but apparently Fauci finds it preferable to saying that he just didn't know what he was talking about.  But, yeah, sure, we can trust him.  :roll:


The only people of note who claim masks are not effective are Rand Paul, Donald Trump, Jim Jordan, Tucker Carlson. They for some odd reason are telling everyone of their own mind set they are worthless.  It depends on what news source you read or follow.  I read several, including those the GOP contends is good. ( I refrain from calling them the ":right"  because often they are not , but whatever works.)
Aardvark, are they really the only people, or just the only ones you know of?  Are you sure they have said they are ineffective, or have they questioned to what extent they are effective?  Are you sure they just made it up on their own without any evidence or listening to knowledgeable people in the field?

This is all another indication of the state we're in.  Aardvark can correct me if I'm wrong, but I saw some of what Jordan and Carlson said, and as I recall they asked questions that Fauci, and apparently many of the "multiple media outlets" and other partisans didn't want asked.  It compounds the danger when not only is it okay for leaders to lie, but questions aren't allowed.

It also further shows the divide; there is no middle ground, either you agree 100%, or you are 100% wrong.  If you question exactly how effective masks are, how long we'll have to continue wearing them, why we have to continue wearing them after getting the vaccine or recovering from the virus; then you're 100% against masks and anti-science and need to be SILENCED!  I think it was Carlson who pointed out that true science used to be based on the ability to ask questions and look for the answers.  But then Carlson's evil for suggesting such a thing, so what he said needs to be taken out of context and misrepresented so we can see how evil he is.

Anyway that's my thoughts, and if you don't agree with me you're evil! :twisted: (At least that seems to be the attitude everyone has any more.  But I know a lot of people are understandably under a lot of stress now days.)

Admit it , you suffer from Anatidaephobia
Title: Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
Post by: chief-david on April 19, 2021, 11:21:54 AM
Going to pause this for a while...Cool off.

Just hope everyone is good.

With that said-on another topic-it is already a crap week. About to get tougher here.
The Aura of this week is already bad, add in the uncertainty of the trial. We were on curfew for a few days. Guessing we will be again no matter what happens. 

......