Author Topic: WS80 owner data anomalies...? (Read 6668 times)

wardie · « **on:** January 20, 2021, 05:00:19 PM »

I thought I would start a thread for WS80 owners to see if people are getting any anomalies in their data, especially with respect to any other anemometer data they have.

We have a storm here in UK so with higher winds/gusts nothing bonkers yet but say 50kph+. Anyway I've got both my WS80 back and up and now also a WS68, albeit in sightly different location on roof (WS68 is a bit higher and clearer of roof profile than the WS80 but both will be impacted by the wind flow on roof to a degree, WS80 also by nearby tree).

[As I've documented elsewhere I had a strange prior behaviour with WS80 reporting 120-130kph winds then stopping. It worked fine after a reset. I got a replacement unit from Froggit anyway, which I now have got up for a few days. All seems OK until I noticed the below tonight.]

In general the last few days I've noticed the WS80 seems to report a bit higher than WS68 on gusts and speed, but that could just be a combo of the reporting frequency and placement differences I guess. However today about 3.40pm I suddenly recorded a short high spike in WS80 wind gust (90kph), but then it dropped back down to significantly below the prior general levels it had been reporting. The wind speed reading also seem to have dropped significantly (like half what they were). All the while the WS68 gusts and speeds have remained relative similar in time, so are quite a good gauge of the "real" world.

I'm not getting up a ladder at night in a storm to reset the WS80 but will do once it dies down and if the potential anomaly continues with it. I'm totally speculating without any internal knowledge but that almost feels like some sort of internal calibration parameter gone stray w.r.t. the ultrasonic sensor processing.

Anyway I would appreciate people's thoughts and also f any one has got any anomaly data / comparative data either way it would be good to compare notes. I would have to be very very unlucky to get 2x fault WS80's I think to I guess it's possible there may just be some inherent wrinkles in the overall package to bear in mind, occasional resets etc.

See comparative graph here from my dashboard - WS80 in pink, WS68 in blue. You can see where the two data sets start to divert roughly in the middle of time series.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Quagmire · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2021, 09:31:14 PM »

Leaf or twig from the tree whack into the WS80 and get lodged in there?

Gyvate · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2021, 03:25:58 AM »

one of the great features of AWEKAS is, that you can make a sanity check of your main sensor data results - comparing with stations in a radius of 10, 20, 50, 100 km. As it's my WS80 which reports to AWEKAS I can get quite some good feedback through their statistics.
https://www.awekas.at/en/station.php?id=16544
It doesn't look as if it's over-reporting.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

The minute observation based data from my Meteobridge shows reasonable results as my nearest METAR station (10 km away) shows values in the same order of magnitude - and strong winds are forecast for my area for today.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

But even in a fully open and obstacle free field situation you may catch some very local whirlwinds which can give the idea of your station / sensor not reporting properly. You may give too much attention to some such momentary observations.
However, if they occur more frequently even when there's no wind at all, I'd be more alarmed.

Mandrake · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2021, 03:36:06 AM »

The WS80 always reads higher than my cup anemometer and certainly sees gusts at higher peaks.
However I concede that you do seem to be showing something odd.
I presume that this is Weewx data we are looking at. Have you compared your Ecowitt dashboard data as the definitive record?
As previously mentioned I have yet to observe any anomalies in my data with the WS80 in all conditions.

Gyvate · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2021, 03:56:55 AM »

I still have my WH65 running in parallel - and it runs "in tune" - not catching (or better not reporting) every value the WS80 does,
(16 seconds vs. 4 seconds reporting interval), but in principle it's consistent.

Also interesting here the information from Ecowitt regarding which value is sent from the sensor to the console (see Olicat's recent post).
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=41201.0

Adding the weewx view for the same period ...
(the gap is caused by a server downtime)

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

I have to say I'm quite happy with the observations my WS80 provides.
(still yours could be faulty - even a replacement item, cannot be excluded at 100%)

olicat · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2021, 04:02:31 AM »

Hi!

Quote

Also interesting here the information from Ecowitt regarding which value is sent from the sensor to the console (see Olicat's recent post).
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=41201.0

Just to make this sure:
The sensor sends the correct values within each reporting interval to the station. But if the reporting interval from console to attached services differs, only the values of last sensor transmission will be sent.

Oliver

Mandrake · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2021, 04:27:38 AM »

I will add that my data shows a considerable drop in wind as the front moved through last night around midnight in my location.
You can see that as the pressure bottomed and dramatically started climbing, the rain stops and the temperature dropped as the skies cleared.
Its almost cliff like in the wind speeds from what was previously peak winds.
Unfortunately I did not have my wh65 wind measures running last night to compare, but I am thinking you saw the same scenario on your WS80 though I cannot explain why your WH65/WS68 continued to record higher values.

wardie · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2021, 05:31:06 AM »

Yup I'll keep an eye on it and not leap to any dramatic conclusions, I'm busy learning all this stuff so thanks for all your experienced inputs! It would well be all "real" observed. I noticed the two sensors came back broadly in line coincident with the low heading away from UK and pressure starting to rise again around midnight. Maybe it's just artefacts of where the sensors are, but interesting. I suspect I'll always get at least some directional differences due to tree shadow to north of WS80 less so for WS68. Pic attaches, taken facing east. Would welcome your inputs on site implications, but not much other choice of high up location TBF.

Anyway, in a lull in the wind, I just took the WS80 down, inspected it and reset it just in case. No debris in the ultrasonic sensor area, the only thing I could see was that one of the little metal gauze "edge flaps" was bent up, maybe indicating some debris had hit it. I bent it back and replaced. Other than that it was just a bit wet.

@gyvate that AWEKAS is interesting, is that also available in UK? I'll have a look. Nearest useful site I've used before for METAR is Luton airport (EGGW), I used for pressure calibration.

@mandrake yes that dashboard is output from 2x Weewx instances archive records generated via the GW1000 API, not off the GW1000s directly, so yes that has to be factored in. [GW1000 -> API -> Weewx -> MQTT -> Node-RED -> Initial State] However I reviewed my HP2551-C console that is reading the WS80 and it was showing the spike and then drop in values in the history screen. That also was the same shown on Ecowitt.net and WU (IKNEBW2) where it flows from the GW1000 web services directly (not via weewx).

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Gyvate · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2021, 06:57:50 AM »

Quote from: wardie on January 21, 2021, 05:31:06 AM

@gyvate that AWEKAS is interesting, is that also available in UK? I'll have a look. Nearest useful site I've used before for METAR is Luton airport (EGGW), I used for pressure calibration.

ent id=3 msg=423197]

you can register from all over the world.

https://www.awekas.at/en/benutzer.php?mode=new

galfert · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2021, 09:46:03 AM »

Quote from: Gyvate on January 21, 2021, 06:57:50 AM

Quote from: wardie on January 21, 2021, 05:31:06 AM

@gyvate that AWEKAS is interesting, is that also available in UK? I'll have a look. Nearest useful site I've used before for METAR is Luton airport (EGGW), I used for pressure calibration.

ent id=3 msg=423197]
you can register from all over the world.
https://www.awekas.at/en/benutzer.php?mode=new

AWEKAS has a very nice admin team too.

wardie · « **Reply #10 on:** January 27, 2021, 01:12:09 PM »

I've re-sited by WS80 (with heater cable, thankfully I did get the 20m!) to a similar position to the WS68 (basically in the 'opposite symmetrical' position in the picture above with respect to the box vellum windows, so next to the 2nd big window). It's on a slightly longer pole than the WS68 (only 0.4m more). The data - from a couple of days of low winds anyway - now suggests pretty close alignment between the two sensors. Which I guess is good news, and would suggest the WS80 is OK and it was indeed just some freaky gusty bits of the previous site maybe. There's a few variations (this data is from 5min intervals aggregated by weewx using 4s/16s interval data from sensors), interesting difference in direction that flips around. I'm pretty sure I have both sensors lined up on north within a few degrees.

Have to see how this performs now over time and with higher winds sustained/gust...

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

stratus13 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2021, 02:22:31 PM »

Good day,

Since cold weather started here (Montréal, Canada) it seems that erroneous peak wind values were reported (once a month) when heavy precipitation occurs. See pics below. I have to mention that I have the latest WS80 model with a mesh on the sonic surface.

stratus13

Nov2020 (heavy rain event, peak 127km/h)
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Dec2020 (heavy rain event, peak 87 km/h)
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Jan 2021 (heavy snow event, peak 144 km/h)
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

ullises · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2021, 05:18:50 AM »

Hi , i got 3 wind data errors this month...(another 2 in december 2020) all of them high winds...same errors in console and gw1000

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Mandrake · « **Reply #13 on:** January 29, 2021, 06:48:22 AM »

Ultrasonic is known to have problems in very cold weather with snow/rain.
Can you advise if you were using the heat plate?

stratus13 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 29, 2021, 09:00:16 AM »

Bonjour Mandrake,

Right, forgot this important detail! No I'm not using the heat plate, logisitic is not easy for my WS80. This said, the first two wind peak events happenned during rain events.

Stratus13

Quote from: Mandrake on January 29, 2021, 06:48:22 AM

Ultrasonic is known to have problems in very cold weather with snow/rain.
Can you advise if you were using the heat plate?

ullises · « **Reply #15 on:** January 29, 2021, 09:41:11 AM »

Quote from: Mandrake on January 29, 2021, 06:48:22 AM

Ultrasonic is known to have problems in very cold weather with snow/rain.
Can you advise if you were using the heat plate?

No heat plate ...
Is there a way to correct data in ecowit.net ?

Mandrake · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2021, 10:05:17 AM »

Unfortunately I don't believe that Ecowitt.net data can be edited in any way

ullises · « **Reply #17 on:** February 09, 2021, 09:02:57 AM »

And again 144 km/h last [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] night.. I think i made a mistake buing this Froggit... 10 years with Davis6152 cabled, Oregon wmr968 before that...no such problems.
Its the 6th time i get this error in 2 months...

galfert · « **Reply #18 on:** February 09, 2021, 09:16:02 AM »

I don't think it is the brand that is the problem. I think it is the experimental nature of the WS80 along with all the other known issues regarding it. I don't see users of the WS68 or WH65 having these issues.

I've never been a fan of the WS80.

- The WS80 is new and experimental in my book
- The WS80 always worried me that perhaps its low price point compared to other ultrasonic brands meant that surely there is a compromise somewhere and we may just be seeing that
- The WS80 requires a heater
- The WS80 makes a compromise in temperature / humidity sensor placement because it needs it for proper wind calculations (granted you can override with a WH32 that Ambient doesn't sell anymore!).
- The WS80 has lower spec for max wind compared to WH65 and WS68
- Lastly although this one is subjective...I think the WS80 is ugly compared to the WS68.

I'm all for digital versus analog...but sometimes perhaps there is nothing wrong with the traditional spinning anemometer. I think where that altrasonic excels is in capturing every miniscule bit of wind gust that might just happen for a split second. I'll admit that I'm not informed enough about ultrasonic anemometers, but I just don't see the appeal. My recommendation is to get the WS68. So many people in the US are upset that they can't get the WS80 except from Ambient and I just don't understand. I don't think the WS80 is a more premium product than the WS68.

Let me just sum it up like this. Let me not even mention the WS80....
What is wrong with the WS68?

galfert · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2021, 09:18:55 AM »

I can already predict some answers. The biggest answer being 4.8 second wind updates instead of 16 seconds.

Well my answer to that is that you don't need an ultrasonic to deliver 4.8 second wind data. As yourself why can't Ecowitt deliver 4.8 seconds with a spinning anemometer like Davis???? (although Davis is even faster)

I'd be asking Ecowitt for a better WS68.

funsutton · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2021, 10:16:20 AM »

I've had my Ambient WS80 installed for almost a month and so far no problemos. I know that's not a lot of time...

I am using the heat plate with the adapter plugged in.

Also I'm not in a high wind area, so if it did spike I'd know it.

But that said, I have seen a few people on Ambient's facebook page complain of randomly high gust peaks at a similar increment of once a month or so. So it does seem like an issue for some.

The WS80 I installed didn't come into stock until mid-January. Any chance this might be an 'older model' issue?

Mandrake · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2021, 10:39:47 AM »

Its entirely possible that its a software issue. The WS80 does actually have a USB port (covered by a rubber bung) allowing for updates though none have ever been publicly acknowledged.
Its possible that Ecowitt have continued to improve the code in the production WS80's over time.

My only observation of a 'funny' nature has been that the ultrasonic element of tha package is more sensitive to available power than the rest of the sensor package. ie the wind will stop being measured when the supercap is empty and the backup AA power cells reach a certain voltage but the overall WS80 will continue to report data to the home console etc

ullises · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2021, 05:18:02 AM »

The best WS ever had...i will recomend it to everybody...7th 144kmh error [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] in 60 days...considering sending back to Froggit...

wardie · « **Reply #23 on:** February 18, 2021, 06:57:51 PM »

Quote from: ullises on February 12, 2021, 05:18:02 AM

The best WS ever had...i will recomend it to everybody...7th 144kmh error in 60 days...considering sending back to Froggit...

Well... here we go again. This is my second WS80. The first one I had I got an anomaly that started this post and I sent it back to Froggit. They tested it and said it was working fine, although to their credit they sent me a brand new one anyway. That one has been working fine for a month until today.

I got a sustained spike - same value as you @ullises a 144kph and 0 degrees angle spike. This time for a good couple of hours. I was about to start the process of taking it down to reset (I also have a nuts "remote" reset idea, another story) but eventually it seemed to settle back down to normal again. Now this time I know its not the actual wind because I have the WS68 nearby and working perfectly. I've attached both graphs below, plus a pic of the WS80 close up and the new mounts for both sensors. I think I'll email Lucy again to see if I can help with with them to figure out what's going on. I can't believe this is just me being super unlucky there must be some design issue.

I've also noticed it is correlated with moderate rain events and gusty conditions - see the graphs - so maybe the sensor is getting disrupted by water somehow, I don't know.

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

funsutton · « **Reply #24 on:** February 18, 2021, 10:31:12 PM »

That's an in interesting observation you make Wardie. It's hard to tell on the graphs from other users that include rain rate if there's a direct correlation because of a lack of info, but on yours it seems like a strong possibility.

I looked back at my rain rates since I've had my WS80 from Ambient. I haven't had this wind spike issue yet, but then my rain rates haven't gone over .87 inches per hour.

I'll be on the lookout for the spike if I do get a significant rain rate, especially in this colder time of year. I don't know if temperature plays a part in the spike, but we'll post the data if it happens to us.

News:

Author Topic: WS80 owner data anomalies...? (Read 6668 times)