Topic: WeatherLink Live Apps are now actually LIVE!

[johnd]

I would expect Davis apps to automatically update at those times and to stay current just as Weather Underground now does.

No, it doesn't work like that. The update intervals you've quoted are those from the sensor transmitters. MB Pro Red is receiving data direct from the transmitters and so is at liberty to do what it wants with the frequency of data forwarding.

While WLL also receives direct from the transmitters of course, the designers have made the (sensible IMO) decision that only wind and rain need updating to a 2.5 sec rhythm. Actually new rain data is only available to WLL (or MBPR come to that) every 20 secs so only every 8th LIVE message from WLL will show a rain update (and it would need to be raining pretty hard for that to be evident). No other weather parameter is deemed to need updating more than once per minute. That's certainly true for temp/hum/pressure/soil moisture etc values; we could probably argue the toss about solar/UV but in reality the sensor updates are only every 50 secs so the point is moot.

[TraderGary]

That's very interesting.
I had wrongly assumed that the WLL would deliver at the same frequency as the ISS.

I just checked the update frequency to my MBPro from it's connection to the WLL.
10 sec Wind
35 sec Rain
35 sec Temp
35 sec Hum
35 sec Pressure
50 sec UV
50 sec Solar

I'm disappointed that Davis decided to slow everything down for the WLL. I know you're OK with 1 minute updates, but I've just invested over $1,500 in a new Davis top-of-the-line system and I'd like to see my data as it comes directly from the ISS and not a full minute after the fact. When it's raining, I want to see the spoon tips as they happen. When the wind blows I want to be able to look at my app and see the speed of the gust I just viewed out of my window.

I have both a WLL and a Meteobridge Pro. I can easily change my MBPro from reading from the WLL and back to reading the RF directly from the ISS for my data feeds and get back to the speed of the Davis sensors.

[johnd]

10 sec Wind
35 sec Rain
35 sec Temp
35 sec Hum
35 sec Pressure
50 sec UV
50 sec Solar

TBH that doesn't make too much sense. If you look in the back of the ISS manual or eg at the table towards the back of the Davis catalogue then you'll see the the interval at which each transmitter sends data.

So eg wind is every ~2.5secs and WLL sends at this frequency LIVE. So why is your MB unit missing 3 out of 4 wind updates?

And eg outside humidity is every 50 secs, so there simply isn't a new reading available every 35secs (which is quite an odd interval - are you sure that's right?).

I don't really understand the logic of wanting to send repeat data that is the same as the last reading received (because no new reading has been received from the transmitter to update it).

So, to me, the logic of WLL sending only those parameters that do potentially change rapidly (ie wind and rain, but every wind reading and not just 1 in 4) with an update once per minute for parameters that only change slowly makes good sense.

We're getting a bit away from the topic of whether a new Android or browser app is being tested currently (neither appears to be on general release yet), though I guess some definition of what LIVE means is important.

[TraderGary]

Yes, those numbers do look unusual, but those are precisely the updates my MBPro is reporting when it's connected to my WLL.

As for getting back to topic on the release of an Android version of the WeatherLink app, if you are in the US, an Android update version 2.1.023 was in fact released by Davis on Oct 9, 2020. Apparently it wasn't released in your part of the world.

[TraderGary]

Yes, you and I appear to be using different definitions of LIVE.

My definition of LIVE is simple and is for an app to report updates from "ALL" ISS sensors the moment the update happens.

[mcrossley]

Yes, those numbers do look unusual, but those are precisely the updates my MBPro is reporting when it's connected to my WLL.

But the WLL supplies wind updates every 2.5 seconds. I use Cumulus MX and that updates every 2.5 seconds when connected to a WLL. So the problem is in the MBPro.

As for getting back to topic on the release of an Android version of the WeatherLink app, if you are in the US, an Android update version 2.1.023 was in fact released by Davis on Oct 9, 2020. Apparently it wasn't released in your part of the world.

I and another person have said earlier in this thread we were already running that version and it had not fixed any of the live update issues for us.

[johnd]

Yes, you and I appear to be using different definitions of LIVE.

Well, it's not just me - I'm using the Davis definition of LIVE, which surely makes more sense in this context

My definition of LIVE is simple and is for an app to report updates from "ALL" ISS sensors the moment the update happens.

But your MB is clearly not doing this (at least not so far as you've reported). You seem to be missing 75% of the wind updates that are available and which WLL (or the sensor transmitter) does transmit.

It would need more digging to get to the bottom of this. I think MB is an excellent system and actually I suspect that the Live Data tab does see new data every 2.5 secs (wind's too low to be sure here ATM) and certainly MB does receive and process every WLL message, ie every 2.5 secs on LIVE. But MB data export seems a little more limited with the minimum upload interval to WU (which I guess is RapidFire) being 5 secs. I wonder if the issue preventing eg 2.5 sec uploads is that MB has to run on a range of hardware including relatively low performance units like the MR3020 and so its features are maybe constrained by the slowest member in the range? (But just speculating here - ICBW certainly.)

[waiukuweather]

android does not actually like apps running all the time
so it might be android that is making it stop updating after a couple of hours of the app being left running

[TraderGary]

Yes, those numbers do look unusual, but those are precisely the updates my MBPro is reporting when it's connected to my WLL.

But the WLL supplies wind updates every 2.5 seconds. I use Cumulus MX and that updates every 2.5 seconds when connected to a WLL. So the problem is in the MBPro.

As for getting back to topic on the release of an Android version of the WeatherLink app, if you are in the US, an Android update version 2.1.023 was in fact released by Davis on Oct 9, 2020. Apparently it wasn't released in your part of the world.

I and another person have said earlier in this thread we were already running that version and it had not fixed any of the live update issues for us.

And I have also said earlier in this thread, the update did NOT fix live update issues for me either.

[TraderGary]

Yes, you and I appear to be using different definitions of LIVE.

Well, it's not just me - I'm using the Davis definition of LIVE, which surely makes more sense in this context

My definition of LIVE is simple and is for an app to report updates from "ALL" ISS sensors the moment the update happens.

But your MB is clearly not doing this (at least not so far as you've reported). You seem to be missing 75% of the wind updates that are available and which WLL (or the sensor transmitter) does transmit.

It would need more digging to get to the bottom of this. I think MB is an excellent system and actually I suspect that the Live Data tab does see new data every 2.5 secs (wind's too low to be sure here ATM) and certainly MB does receive and process every WLL message, ie every 2.5 secs on LIVE. But MB data export seems a little more limited with the minimum upload interval to WU (which I guess is RapidFire) being 5 secs. I wonder if the issue preventing eg 2.5 sec uploads is that MB has to run on a range of hardware including relatively low performance units like the MR3020 and so its features are maybe constrained by the slowest member in the range? (But just speculating here - ICBW certainly.)

I will certainly agree that the MBPro isn't doing everything I thought it would. The only way I could get it to be reliable was to position it in a separate room next to a wall that was only about 50 feet from my Davis 6163. That was disappointing. Unlike my MBPro, my WLL works just fine in my den with two walls and 150 feet from the Davis PWS.

I also may be testing the MBPro incorrectly. I bring up the "Raw Sensor" tab and I watch each sensor as I click every second to watch until each sensor resets back to zero again. It's the only way I could see to do it.

Would you please give me the URL page for Davis's definition of LIVE? I think that I may very well be expecting something Davis have no intentions of delivering. It would help to see their actual definition.

[TraderGary]

android does not actually like apps running all the time
so it might be android that is making it stop updating after a couple of hours of the app being left running

I would accept that except for the fact that occasionally, when trading remotely, I will use only my Android Pixel 3 XL phone and Interactive Brokers Android Trader Workstation app. I can keep the IBKR app running continuously for 6 1/2 hours straight for the entire trading day without a problem or a hiccup. The IBKR app is monitoring 35+ stocks on my watch list and the screen is constantly winking and blinking mirroring every trade at the instant made on the New York Stock Exchange. There is literally thousands of times the amount of data being processed as the WeatherLink app. And it must all be processed continuously, instantly and accurately.

[waiukuweather]

yes
but
an app needs to over rule android to do that (think like a service)
its probable the Davis app does not do that

[TraderGary]

yes
but
an app needs to over rule android to do that (think like a service)
its probable the Davis app does not do that

I know very little about Android software development, so help me out. Why do you think the Davis programmers wouldn't take advantage of that? Especially since they like to promote their LIVE capabilities.

[mcrossley]

I think it more likely that the app requests the live data when it first connects to the station. The live data then times out after a number of hours - you have to set a time limit in the request. And the app does not then renew the request.

It would be interesting to see if it still stops the live updates if you connect your mbpro to the WLL, as that will keep the live data flowing.

To be fair you wouldn't normally expect people to keep a app running for hours at a time on their phone

[TraderGary]

I think it more likely that the app requests the live data when it first connects to the station. The live data then times out after a number of hours - you have to set a time limit in the request. And the app does not then renew the request.

It would be interesting to see if it still stops the live updates if you connect your mbpro to the WLL, as that will keep the live data flowing.

To be fair you wouldn't normally expect people to keep a app running for hours at a time on their phone

I do keep my MBPro permanently connected to my WLL and have live data continuously and reliably flowing from my MBPro to WU, AWEKAS, and Windy. And I still haven't been able to keep the Android WeatherLink app running continuously and reliably.

I suppose you are right. I obviously appear to be the only one in this thread that expects weather data to flow continuously and reliably in the Davis WeatherLink Android app.

[mcrossley]

Sorry, I thought your last post on subject said you had the mbpro reading the sensors directly.

[ConligWX]

I know very little about Android software development, so help me out. Why do you think the Davis programmers wouldn't take advantage of that? Especially since they like to promote their LIVE capabilities.

Android throttles apps as precaution to save battery life, just like a laptop working on battery or mains supply - they have different power plans i guess.

[TraderGary]

Sorry, I thought your last post on subject said you had the mbpro reading the sensors directly.

I've used my MBPro both ways, connected directly to the sensors and connected to the WLL. I can easily change from one to the other. For the past several weeks I've been connected to my new WLL and haven't changed it. It's becoming apparent that the only way to get continuous, reliable data is to connect my MBPro directly to the ISS and eliminate the WLL connection. I'm now regretting having purchased the WLL.

[TraderGary]

I know very little about Android software development, so help me out. Why do you think the Davis programmers wouldn't take advantage of that? Especially since they like to promote their LIVE capabilities.

Android throttles apps as precaution to save battery life, just like a laptop working on battery or mains supply - they have different power plans i guess.

And yet apps like my Android Interactive Brokers app are able to stream and make trades 100% reliably for the entire market trading day. There is absolutely no way the IBKR app could be throttled and be reliable. How do the IBKR programmers do that and why can't the Davis programmers do the same?

[johnd]

It's becoming apparent that the only way to get continuous, reliable data is to connect my MBPro directly to the ISS and eliminate the WLL connection. I'm now regretting having purchased the WLL.

I think that what you're complaining about is the Android WL app accessing data from WLL, rather than WLL itself? Mark will chime I'm sure but AFAIAA others programs like CumulusMX can access live data continuously without a problem. So the issue is the Android app, not WLL. (Of course it depends also on your own use case - if the only way that you wish to access current data is via the Android app then OK things aren't perfect there.)

I suspect that everyone would like to see the next release of the Android app, to see how well that works with LIVE data and if it can work around any constraints imposed by Android. Personally, I think it would be useful for both apps (ie Android and iPhone) to have a refresh function/button - that would come in handy occasionally.

[TraderGary]

It's becoming apparent that the only way to get continuous, reliable data is to connect my MBPro directly to the ISS and eliminate the WLL connection. I'm now regretting having purchased the WLL.

I think that what you're complaining about is the Android WL app accessing data from WLL, rather than WLL itself? Mark will chime I'm sure but AFAIAA others programs like CumulusMX can access live data continuously without a problem. So the issue is the Android app, not WLL. (Of course it depends also on your own use case - if the only way that you wish to access current data is via the Android app then OK things aren't perfect there.)

I suspect that everyone would like to see the next release of the Android app, to see how well that works with LIVE data and if it can work around any constraints imposed by Android. Personally, I think it would be useful for both apps (ie Android and iPhone) to have a refresh function/button - that would come in handy occasionally.

Thanks, John.  I don't plan to use apps like Cumulus that require me to run my PC continuously.  I've recently invested in the most expensive 6163 VP2+ that Davis makes and I'd simply like a way to continuously monitor it reliably on my Windows 10 PC and my Android phone. Right now it's pitiful that the only way I can do that is using Weather Underground and their rapid-fire update. I'll be very much looking forward to the Davis boys figuring out how to do the same with weatherlink.com and the Android WeatherLink app.

[johnd]

Thanks, John.  I don't plan to use apps like Cumulus that require me to run my PC continuously.  I've recently invested in the most expensive 6163 VP2+ that Davis makes and I'd simply like a way to continuously monitor it reliably on my Windows 10 PC and my Android phone. Right now it's pitiful that the only way I can do that is using Weather Underground and their rapid-fire update. I'll be very much looking forward to the Davis boys figuring out how to do the same with weatherlink.com and the Android WeatherLink app.

Well I'd say a few things:

1. AIUI based on what you've said upthread, WU is not giving you genuinely live updates anyway. New data is available every ~2.5 secs, but you're only seeing every 10 secs, so missing 75% of eg the wind updates.

2. I don't have an Android phone but AIUI previous versions of the app did update LIVE correctly. So Davis do (or at least did, until maybe Android changed) know how to do it. I think it's more a question of catching up with changes to Android.

3. iPhones (and eg iPads) do work correctly with LIVE/WLL. TBH I've never left mine on for hours on end, but I know it's fine over shorter periods. Other programs like CumulusMX are also OK with 2.5 sec updates.

4. I'm honestly not sure whether the browser app will be able to see LIVE, at least not in the near future. It obviously works on a different architecture to the phone apps and might be more difficult (though certainly not impossible) to update LIVE (ie every 2.5 secs).

5. You don't have to run programs like Cumulus MX (CMX) (and others) on a big PC. It will run on a little Raspberry Pi for instance. And will also run headless (ie no screen, KB, mouse etc attached). It will just sit there in a little corner somewhere, talking over WiFi, and creating a live screen for you to view on your main PC whenever you wish. Maybe you don't want to spend a little time on setting this up, but just pointing out that it is an option.

[TraderGary]

If I feed WU using my Meteobridge and RF direct connection with the ISS, I do get 5 second updates on WU.

On the other hand, with the Android WeatherLink app I do get reliable LIVE Wind and Rain updates. I've been experimenting with it and sometimes it will update all the other fields automatically and sometimes it won't. I think you're right that the Davis programmers are close to getting it right. And quite frankly I really do like the Android app.

And after I discovered that I can change the weatherlink.com PC app to a nicely presented list making it easier to read, I like it too. I'm sure Davis will solve the current slow one minute updates. And I like being able to design charts they way I like since I upgraded to PRO.

And you are right, most of the time when I use the Android app, I bring it up, look at the data, and close it again. The only time I really
want to leave it running is to watch LIVE Wind and Rain. And for that it works superbly.

I'll stop complaining for now and wait for software updates.

Thanks for your patience with a weather station novice, John!

[waiukuweather]

I suspect that the app first requests X amount
Of UDP data packets
But once those run out it's not requesting a new quota
As Johnd has hinted at

[johnd]

@TraderGary: Just to illustrate, this is what I mean by live:

https://youtu.be/1bK46JUphFg

This is a 2-minute real-time video of wind speed and direction gauges in CumulusMX running on a Raspberry Pi and with data from a WLL I've uploaded. Not specially exciting  but hopefully it does show the point. These gauges are updating to IIRC a 3-second interval. Occasionally the speed or direction will be identical to the last reading and so the dial won't move, but most updates one or the other moves.

NB This is ~x2 enlarged from the original screen resolution (must have missed a setting when recording) so image sharpness isn't great, but hopefully it illustrates the point.