Author Topic: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?  (Read 29232 times)

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Offline weather34

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2019, 04:42:24 PM »
look out for the new improvements recent kit arrived as some improvements over the original .

solar power option no more batteries

So the solar panel module has a battery pack built in?
batteries no requirement anymore

What happens when there's insufficient sun? Super-cap? If only that, how long will it last?

i cant answer that we are past our winter we are in that moderate to high uv period but im sure that has been addressed from what i recall they've been testing since last august on prototypes . the sky generally only starts to fail when voltage drops to around 2.5v that was quite apparent on aa lithium batteries after 6 or. 7 months .

Offline kobuki

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2019, 08:00:12 AM »
I'm curious about the accuracy of their ultrasonic anemometer. Does anyone have real life experience or info on that?

Offline vreihen

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2019, 09:04:04 AM »
I'm curious about the accuracy of their ultrasonic anemometer. Does anyone have real life experience or info on that?

Live WeeWX report of Davis VP2 and WeatherFlow Sky on same mast:

http://ae3.homelinux.net:845/weewx/compare.html





The best comparison is the vector average winds at the bottom left, since it smooths out the ultrasonic's ability to measure a draft that isn't strong enough to push the spinny cups.  That number is usually within a few degrees and 1 MPH on any day, but this morning is way off because the overnight winds were 0-1 MPH and only the ultrasonic could measure them.....
WU Gold Stars for everyone! :lol:

Offline CW2274

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2019, 03:34:34 PM »
I'm curious about the accuracy of their ultrasonic anemometer. Does anyone have real life experience or info on that?
this morning is way off because the overnight winds were 0-1 MPH and only the ultrasonic could measure them.....
Not to hijack the thread, but tell ya what, I just replaced the speed cartridge on my anny and it consistently reads 1 mph. Don't think it ever did this before and that very well might be because this cartridge is different than what it replaced. Considering it's only $20 to the door and literally one screw to replace it, I think it's well worth it.

Offline GHammer

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2019, 09:39:26 PM »
Not to hijack the thread, but tell ya what, I just replaced the speed cartridge on my anny and it consistently reads 1 mph. Don't think it ever did this before and that very well might be because this cartridge is different than what it replaced. Considering it's only $20 to the door and literally one screw to replace it, I think it's well worth it.

I'd have to see that, maybe they promised, but  a 1 MPH 'wind' isn't much to overcome the inertia of the cups and associated bearings.
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Offline CW2274

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2019, 09:58:16 PM »
Not to hijack the thread, but tell ya what, I just replaced the speed cartridge on my anny and it consistently reads 1 mph. Don't think it ever did this before and that very well might be because this cartridge is different than what it replaced. Considering it's only $20 to the door and literally one screw to replace it, I think it's well worth it.

I'd have to see that, maybe they promised, but  a 1 MPH 'wind' isn't much to overcome the inertia of the cups and associated bearings.
Look for yourself. Cup inertia doesn't last for 15+ minutes...

https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/mesowest/getobext.php?wfo=twc&sid=C2274&num=48

Offline GHammer

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #56 on: April 06, 2019, 10:13:28 PM »
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Offline kobuki

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #57 on: April 07, 2019, 07:07:06 AM »
@vreihen: thanks. Though I can't really answer my question from the images, all I see is the curves of the fancy new devices are off from the Davis, sometimes they look almost random, looking at wind and precip... I'm mainly interested in a no-moving-parts anemometer that doesn't cost in the €1000+ range. Their method for measuring rain and rain rate is interesting, but reading other threads, it seems their rain gauge is not exactly reliable or accurate (yet?).

Offline vreihen

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #58 on: April 07, 2019, 09:05:40 AM »
FYI, Friday and yesterday were not the best for comparing precipitation.  We had sleet on Friday afternoon->night, which currently over-reports on the WeatherFlow due to the sound it makes, and some of it sat in the Davis cone until it warmed up yesterday before being measured.  The WeatherFlow logged some false rain yesterday as well, since it is attached to my deck railing and we were doing some construction work with sawing/hammering on the deck.  (There's also gaps in the WF data, as a result of my having to shut down the WeeWX computer and move it away from the construction zone.)

WeatherFlow has data scientists working on continuous learning algorithms to make their stations smarter, but still have not rolled out the rainfall code yet that I know of.  If rainfall is important to you, I'd recommend using a decent tipping bucket or 4" manual Stratus rain bucket with the WF station.

WF as a company really stands behind their products, and has competent tech/customer support folks.  They also publish open API's for multiple ways to access YOUR data for free, unlike the walled gardens set up by other PWS vendors in this price range such as AcuRite and Ambient who will only let their customers share with WU.  There is a thriving community of third-party developers with support for the WF station's data, including the WeeWX UDP driver that I developed and freely share.

Although there are some pitfalls to the non-mechanical precipitation measuring technologies used by WF and the optical Hydreon RG-11, they do have the advantage of being able to send a start-of-rain alert upon detecting the first drop.  This is useful for home automation folks, as well as people who leave their car windows/roofs open in the driveway.  By the time a tipping bucket logs its first spoonful, those leather seats are pretty well soaked.....
WU Gold Stars for everyone! :lol:

Offline kobuki

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #59 on: April 07, 2019, 11:07:55 AM »
Yeah, I understand the benefits and I'm sure they will present us with a polished, modern and accurate sensor cluster in the future, but it's apparent that they're not quite there yet. Their methods with all solid state sensors are the future IMO and it's also clear that someone has to take up pioneering, but now it's but a bet. In a year we'll see where they'll have arrived. On a side note, I was eyeing the Hydreon device for precip alerts, exactly for the purposes mentioned. It's also a very inventive device, but also lacks accuracy, so it's mainly for signalling rain and approximate rain rate.

Offline weather34

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2019, 02:07:56 PM »
Yeah, I understand the benefits and I'm sure they will present us with a polished, modern and accurate sensor cluster in the future, but it's apparent that they're not quite there yet. Their methods with all solid state sensors are the future IMO and it's also clear that someone has to take up pioneering, but now it's but a bet. In a year we'll see where they'll have arrived. On a side note, I was eyeing the Hydreon device for precip alerts, exactly for the purposes mentioned. It's also a very inventive device, but also lacks accuracy, so it's mainly for signalling rain and approximate rain rate.

Ive always been on the sidelines about rainfall and the technology used Ive not been shy of voicing that view to wf and I dont do it with an attitude . i had a lengthy skype with an engineer from a different company (wants to remain anonymous) he basically had a 2 year development budget using similar technology and concluded impossible to achieve any consistency however he did highlight more time  was needed and a rethink on capture area.

I have pulled apart 5 of these sky units and pretty understand whats under the hood and the vulnerable areas , i tend to look at this technology with a thinking of microphones  . I remain positive for the future about this product simply due the constant minor visual changes that are actually quite significant in performance values.

as above my hope and would love to see it made priority but you cant have it always is a dedicated temperature radiation shield designed smartly with efficient results.
100% shade idea is just not a good way to achieve sales or as a recommendation you end with a microclimate temperature readings and this doesnt always reflect surrounding area in general . i,e walk one side of my property it constantly remains damp in the short winter months little airflow or sunlight walk the other side of property or even a few metres out of the shaded area where it gets 8-10hrs of sunlight and good airflow totally different feel and readings altogether and you dont need a instrument to see the difference.

personally think this educated forum community should get behind this company as vreihen mentions they are listeners and realistic in there responses i was a bit dismayed early last year where a few field testers had little background or previous ownership of weather equipment ..however the field test group has rapidly grown and seeing some really good observations and realistic ideas quite frequently discussed ..

as for solar panel most drop ive seen under darkness is a drop 3.21v to high of 3.51 during peak sunlight period.




« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 02:35:44 PM by weather34 »

Offline doubleohwhatever

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #61 on: April 07, 2019, 02:12:42 PM »
What's the real world accuracy of the rain sensor at the moment? 70%, 80%, etc.

Offline weather34

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2019, 02:24:46 PM »
from what I see based on observations is some inconsistency due to intensity of rainfall , however I can only speak for my own observations and comparisons to my hardware I have (vp2 calibrated for metric at 0.2mm per tip) and homemade measuring tube..for example this evening SKY recorded 0.7mm and Vp2 was 1.0mm light and variable max of 12kmh winds rain lasted around an 40 minutes . so under those conditions the difference is close enough to say which one is right ?? and create that confusion. What i may get chance is to see how pans out under really intense rainfall in the coming months as we approach stupid flash flood season then dry an hour later as if nothing happened. so time will tell , i recall last year the inconsistency was quite noticeable and very
susceptible to false rain measurements when winds were at that constant 50kmh or above for long periods . in recent months false rain under strong wind gusts has not been so apparent.



« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 02:26:55 PM by weather34 »

Offline doubleohwhatever

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2019, 03:50:56 PM »
That falls in line with what I've read before. ~70% accuracy.

Are there any solid state precipitation sensors that are 100% accurate? All of the radar-based sensors that I've come across are rated at around 90% accurate. That's better than 70% but still not 100%.

At the moment I'm testing a Lufft R2S-UMB. It's rated for >90% accuracy and from my testing it's closer to 95% in sub 30MPH winds. Testing against a CoCoRaHS rain gauge.

Offline havtrail

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2019, 07:21:56 PM »
If you read the CWOP siting guidelines, it seems that no rain gauge achieves 100% accuracy when there is any wind. They have graphs from studies showing a very dramatic falloff in rain capture under crosswind conditions.

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Offline weather34

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #65 on: April 08, 2019, 02:50:39 AM »
achieving accuracy is always going to be a challenge in all in one hardware types , do you position optimally for wind or rain , so in regards to this hardware that is going to be difficult in fact most all in ones is going face the challenge so you you simply have to find a reasonable balance between the two .

wind ultra sonic technology very sensitive to nearby reflections and backdraft so i guess optimum is an open space aprox 8-10 feet of the ground however is that possible in an urban area ? so always a trade off when reading recommendations if your property,location is very different.

i live in a sea view apartment no option of using it near ground level its 80ft agl high winds and rainfall is always a challenge no matter what hardware i use ..

in regards to the hardware its as good as any all in one solution once again siting the temperature component in a dedicated radiation shield it will certainly compare well to competitors offerings . 18 months to 2 years if continuous development is made you will have a reasonably good high end consumer based product . personally based on recent delivery of hardware i would put more trust in durability over those fine offset offerings ..


Offline nincehelser

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2019, 11:38:57 AM »
Installed my Sky solar-panel today.   Installation was very easy, and the unit powered up right away.

Delivery was really quick.  The 40% coupon expires May 31, so hurry up if you haven't ordered yet.

https://shop.weatherflow.com/products/solar-power-accessory?utm_source=SWS+account+owners&utm_campaign=99c116ea0a-SOLAR_EMAIL_ANNOUNCEMENT_MAY2019&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_e3814546b6-99c116ea0a-382252029&mc_cid=99c116ea0a&mc_eid=5447dd91b8

Quote
Use the discount link or code below to get 40% OFF when ordered before May 31, 2019.  Buy Now 40% OFF.  (use discount code at checkout step: "SOLAR40FF" )

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« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 11:46:33 AM by nincehelser »

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2019, 02:02:26 PM »
yes, this is a great addition, the solar charge pack :)
mine has been working great for the last couple of months

Offline Dennis Rogers

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #68 on: July 31, 2019, 03:49:09 PM »
WeatherFlow just added the barometer to their continuous learning (CL) algorithm
This question is not necessarily for you, but I've always wondered why some PWS have to "learn" the pressure. It's merely a measurement, like every other piece of data. Soon as power is supplied to a VP2 or Vue console the pressure reading is instantly displayed, there is no "learning".

With Acurite (and I think some LaCrosse systems now) "learn" a sea-level adjusted pressure by averaging pressure readings over time (e.g. 2 to 4 weeks).  This allows a reasonable setting to be achieved without the user having know or do anything.  The big disadvantage is that it is very slow method. 

Acurite only uses the "learning method" for the local console display value.  Values transmitted to a computer or network are adjusted using more typical methods.

My understanding of the WeatherFlow CL system is that it uses your elevation (gained from the network or manual input) to adjust the pressure, then further "fine-tunes" using regional pressure data from the network.   It's almost like they are re-calibrating the baro sensor daily instead of yearly like you might to account for an aging sensor's drift.

While that sounds good on paper, I'm unclear what practical advantage this has.  Maybe it's because the WeatherFlow baro sensor is outside, exposed to wide temperature variations, instead of being situated in a more temperature-stable indoor environment?

With no friction and resistance I would say the weather flow is more accurate for wind. It takes a certian ammount of wind to turn the cups.

Offline Dennis Rogers

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2019, 08:25:27 PM »
My other issue is that the AIR seems to be a bit "deaf" with regards to lightning.

The Atlas picked up 25 strikes during today's storms.  Zero for the AIR.

Even though it's going to put the AIR in the sun, I'm going to relocate it near the Atlas and see if that makes any difference in lightning detection.

I did notice a "Lighting Disturber" sensor status tonight for the AIR.  I'm not sure what's causing that or why it isn't going away.

The acurite lighting detectors give false lighting sticks so the air maybe more correct, or unless you have experienced lighting in your area you may not know.

Would not trust the acurite lighting sensor either

Offline nincehelser

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2019, 08:40:01 PM »
My other issue is that the AIR seems to be a bit "deaf" with regards to lightning.

The Atlas picked up 25 strikes during today's storms.  Zero for the AIR.

Even though it's going to put the AIR in the sun, I'm going to relocate it near the Atlas and see if that makes any difference in lightning detection.

I did notice a "Lighting Disturber" sensor status tonight for the AIR.  I'm not sure what's causing that or why it isn't going away.

The acurite lighting detectors give false lighting sticks so the air maybe more correct, or unless you have experienced lighting in your area you may not know.

Would not trust the acurite lighting sensor either

No.  The Air is not more correct.  It's pretty clear that it under-reports strikes, at least with the two Airs I have worked with.

The Acurite is far more reasonable in its count.  It is also consistent with the lightning strike alerts sent out by my local TV station.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 08:58:02 PM by nincehelser »

Offline CW2274

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #71 on: September 06, 2019, 12:19:05 AM »
I'm assuming it's the same, but looks like you Weatherflow folks may be getting some love from the NHC.

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCUAT5+shtml/060351.shtml

Offline weather34

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2019, 02:32:12 AM »
I'm assuming it's the same, but looks like you Weatherflow folks may be getting some love from the NHC.

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCUAT5+shtml/060351.shtml

might give you insight into there network which has been around prior to the consumer releases https://weatherflow.com/professional-services/weather-networks/custom-designed-mesonets/the-weatherflow-hurricane-network/

Offline Dennis Rogers

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #73 on: September 06, 2019, 02:47:49 AM »
Acurite dont have accurite lighting stricks either. Lots of false stricks. They where worse when they first came out but still would not totally rely they are correct.

When the altlas came out lots off issues, but weather flow have a better and more dedicated team and have professional meteorologist, and team, whereas acurite dont.

I have heard a lot of false lighting stricks on the altas

Offline CW2274

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Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #74 on: September 06, 2019, 02:53:07 AM »
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