Topic: Advice on which outdoor sensor.

[_John C]

A big thank you to all who have contributed to this thread. Lots of my questions have been answered and Ive learnt quite a bit. 

Ive been running a Fine Offset Maplin station (WS-1001) for the past 4 years..Think its about time for this upgrade to take place.In the world of tech, things change quickly and I know first hand. Ive been repairing electronics (mostly A/V equipment) for the last 20 years and have seen some major changes, CRT to Plasma and LCD screens. Video recorders to Dvd players/recorders and HDD recorders. Analogue to digital satellite equipment. Analogue to digital terrestrial reception. You've got to keep moving with it !!!

[galfert]

This is not a slam but an observation, but I'm damn sure glad I'm not in the market for a PWS. Reading threads like this would turn me off in a heartbeat about buying Ambient, or whatever half dozen varieties it may be called (part of the problem as well). I'm certainly not an IT guy and knowing what talks with what, what sensor goes where, what needs calibrating for online vs in house, what data can go where and what can't, and all the other idiosyncrasies, it lunacy. I'm sure once you're into one it's fairly straight forward, but that just it, I'd never try.

So you wouldn't be turned off by the multitude of options with Davis? How is it any different? And why be turned off? Anyone in the market today should be interested not taken aback so that you can get informed and be able to make a good purchase decision. I've become fairly informed with the configuration options for not just Ambient/Ecowitt and other Fine Offset clones, but also for Davis and Acurite hardware configurations. I would say what Ambient/Ecowitt/Fine Offset have going is not much different than the multitude of options with Davis. With Davis you have two consoles and many don't realize the Vue console is compatible with the VP2. When dealing with the VP2 you have all the different fan options. Then you have the EnviroMonitor, the Envoy and Envoy 8x. Then there are all the logger options; Weatherlink USB, Weatherlink IP, (Weatherlink Serial - discontinued), and the new WeatherLink Live.  Then there is all the extra transmitters that only the VP2 can support and extra sensors, soil, leaf etc. And that is all without adding 3rd party hardware support like Meteobridge NANO, Meteobridge Pro, and WiFiLogger. And I probably forgot something. I don't see how getting all those options straight is any different than options from Ambient/Ecowitt/Fine Offset. Its all easy and simple once you commit to learning how it all works and what features are available. I think with a Davis station the options are even more complicated.

For most people going for a Davis should be simple....complete station (outdoor sensor and display)...then add logger and run software or not depending on logger.
For most people Ambient/Ecowitt/Fine Offiset is just as simple....complete station (outdoor sensor and display)...and you are done! WiFi built in. WU and other services supported out of the box! Want extra functionality?... then consider adding extra stuff, but that is optional.

[galfert]

By the way I didn't take the multitude of configuration options with Ambient/Ecowitt/Fine Offset as a slam. It was a good and accurate observation! Actually it is because there are so many options that it makes me a happy customer. The multitude of options with Davis are the very reason I'm also a big Davis fan.

[CW2274]

This is not a slam but an observation, but I'm damn sure glad I'm not in the market for a PWS. Reading threads like this would turn me off in a heartbeat about buying Ambient, or whatever half dozen varieties it may be called (part of the problem as well). I'm certainly not an IT guy and knowing what talks with what, what sensor goes where, what needs calibrating for online vs in house, what data can go where and what can't, and all the other idiosyncrasies, it lunacy. I'm sure once you're into one it's fairly straight forward, but that just it, I'd never try.

For most people going for a Davis should be simple....complete station (outdoor sensor and display)...then add logger and run software

And it is, as this is my exact, simple setup. I don't feel that I have to have a Phd in PWS land to do this kind of basic, simple stuff. Reading all the threads that you and others say about getting where one wants to be with Ambient is mind-boggling....to me. If it's all actually child's play, so be it. Like I said, it was my observation and right or wrong, it's still my perception and that equates to reality in head shrink land. If I'm the only one on planet earth that's too obtuse to figure it out, oh well, my loss, I'll get over it.

[Mandrake]

I think its the supermarket scenario....when you go in and are faced with a wide range of options it is sometimes hard to know what you want!

However it is not daunting really. Just buy a Console and all-in one sensor to get going and add any additional sensors that interest you or simply wait a while. Its easy to become an enthusiast in this game but you don't have to be, you can just as easily settle for a console and all in one and be good, just as you were with the previous Maplin model.

I was like you with a very old near 10yrs Fine offset maplin model and finally upgraded to the latest model this year and have fully immersed myself in all the options!

[galfert]

I created the following post with a graphic to take some of the mystery out of the options.

It's pretty straightforward.
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=37760.0

[Mandrake]

Just to finally clarify the question over the HP2551 vs HP2550 I have confirmed that the difference is not the console (they are identical - same as WS-2000) but simply whether its shipped with a Tri-wing all in one sensor or a Bi-arm all in sensor which is a slightly newer design but effectively are the same components packaged differently.

So...
HP2550A = Tri Wing All in One sensor (Analogous to Ambient WS-2000)
HP2551 = Bi Armed All in one Sensor

The firmware on the Ecowitt/Fineoffset HP2550/2551 are the same.
So in reality no real differences.

[_John C]

Another question ;
 Can the Maplin N23DQ console receive data from the HP2551 outdoor array ? It would be great if it could as Ive got Ambient firmware on my Maplin console and it uploads to Ambient. Its useful because I can ask the Amazon Alexas/Echos for the indoor/ outdoor conditions. E.g."Alexa, ask Ambient weather for outdoor conditions". I wont have this feature when I replace my station with a new Ecowitt HP2551 array and console, unless Ecowitt release an Amazon Alexa/Echo skill.

[Mandrake]

Sorry but I don't believe that the sensor array for the old Maplin (aka WS1001 I believe) will be seen by the HP2551 console or vice versa for the newer array.
I think the Gw-1000 'might' be able to see the old sensor array though I am not aware of anyone doing it.

As for ecowitt and the alexa skill. I have discussed this with Ecowitt (Lucy) and it is recognised and on the roadmap but not a high priority so no timescale.
I guess there is always room for someone to try and write their own skill. No harm in leaving the old station in place as a comparison if its still functions.
I still have my 10 year old Maplin N96Y down the garden feeding CumulusMX as a comparison for my more modern station equipment.

[_John C]

Thanks, good to here about Ecowitt working on a skill for the echo, that would solve the problem. Would be nice to be able to use my old console with the new system, Id have the use of 2 consoles then.Id put the old console in the bedroom and have it uploading to Ambient.

[galfert]

The WS-1001 display console will not work with the Ecowitt HP2551 for two reasons.

1. The WS-1001 firmware was designed to read wind data a half the rate of the newer anemometer. The WS-1001 sensor sends 1 pulse for every revolution. The newer sensors send 2 pulses for every revolution. This allows the newer sensors to be more accurate and to also pick up lower wind speeds more accurately. There is not way on the WS-1001 console to change this, at least not by specifying a different sensor type, an alternative is to try and compensate via calibration adjustment. So wind data will be all wrong. Other sensors are compatible. But who wants messed up wind data? This really only applies to someone trying a WS-1001 display console with a WS-2000/2902A/1550 Ambient sensor....not Ecowitt sensor array...see next point.

2. Ambient consoles do not work with Ecowitt sensors. But if you had the opposite situation then it works...meaning Ecowitt consoles work with Ambient sensors. You could put the Maplin firmware back on but then you still have the problem in my prior point of not being compatible with wind.

If you are planning on getting an Ecowitt HP2551 there is a way to upload to Ambientweather.net. It just requires some more stuff. You need:
- an Ecowitt GW1000 (for sending data to Meteobridge)
- a Meteobridge standard or Pro device (the standard can be DIY or prebuilt)
- add-on Ambientweather.net license ($150 purchased from Ambient)
* you still also need Meteobridge license if you are making a DIY device

This setup is exactly what I'm using.
Sensors --> GW1000 --> Meteobridge (Ambient licensed) --> Ambientweather.net

This way you get to have both Ecowitt.net and Ambientweather.net ...because the following is still true:
Sensors --> GW1000 --> Ecowitt.net
or
Sensors --> HP2551 console --> Ecowitt.net

The HP2551 console does not have the capability of sending data to the Meteobridge.

It isn't strange that the Maplin display console took the Ambient firmware. People have been doing this for some time with all sorts of devices like the ObserverIP clones. What is strange is that Ambientweather.net is still letting you upload with hardware that they didn't sell. This trick you are using reportedly worked for some people in the early days of Ambientweather.net but that loophole was supposedly fixed by Ambientweather.net checking the MAC address of your display console to be sure that it was one of theirs. I've read of others where this trick stopped working with the Aercus version of the ObserverIP for example. Perhaps Ambient's white listing or black listing was not robust enough and you got away with it.

[galfert]

I forgot to say that if you buy a Meteobridge from Ambient then it will already be licensed for both Meteobridge and for Ambientweather.net. That is the cheaper way to go than the DIY. But if you aren't in the USA then they won't ship to you. Which means you'll need to get the Meteobridge from elsewhere (or build one) and then you won't have the Ambientweather.net license...so it will need to be added for $150.

* UPDATE - March 2020 - Ambientweather.net license for Meteobridge has new lower price, now just $100

[_John C]

When the old console is powered on; the outdoor temp reads exactly the same on old and new console. But after a short time the old console reads slightly different. It can be higher or lower by 0.4c. If I Re-register the new outdoor array on the old console; the temps are perfectly aligned again. But a short time later it can slowly fluctuate. Its not an erratic change of .4c or .3c at a time. It slowly drifts by .1c at a time.  And then it might drify back to what it should be. A strange one!

[galfert]

The old console is probably doing some data averaging rather than showing real live raw sensor data. This is just a hunch.

[_John C]

Maybe, but its strange that both consoles read the exact same with the indoor temp, indoor humidity and outdoor humidity.

At the moment both are reading a perfect 7.1c outdoor temp.

[galfert]

Indoor probably doesn't fluctuate as much like the outdoor does.  And outdoor humidity is probably something that they didn't want averaged or wasn't warranted. It may have to do with temperature sensor used and the accuracy capability of the sensor. So perhaps averaging on some sensors made sense from a software perspective to compensate for sensor technology (at that price point) of the era.

I used to use an ObserverIP and I noticed it did this type of data averaging compared to my WS-2902A display console.

[_John C]

I'll settle for that explanation so galfert. Thanks for the info 

At the moment:
HP2551 console :  7.2c
Maplin console : still at 7.1c

Happy again that I can ask Alexa for indoor or outdoor conditions via the Ambient Weather Alexa skill.

At the moment:
HP2551 console :  back at 7.1c
Maplin console : still at 7.1c

[_John C]

Its deffinitely down to the way both consoles interpret the outdoor temp. The old console is still displaying 7.1c . Whilst the new console has displayed 7.1, 7.2, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 7.4. I'm expecting the old console to rise by .1 or .2 any moment.

Old console just increased by .1c.

[_John C]

Im uncommitted to Rain gain .83. I calculated that on the assumption that the older ws-1001 style array tipped at .3mm and the new HP2551 type array tipps at .25mm. But Ive just found on a post here that the newer HP2551 type array tipps at .254mm which would mean my Rain gain should be .85 on the old console. Can anyone here confirm the tipping figures of both arrays so that I can calculate the correct Rain gain ? Thanks

[_John C]

A lot of rain today. I will set the Rain gain on the old console to .85

                  Hp2551 ws1002    gain
11-11-19   2.6mm   3.0mm    .866
13-11-19  10.9mm  12.9mm .845
13-11-19  20.1mm  23.7mm .848
13-11-19  20.3mm  24.0mm .845

[Rychu]

Im uncommitted to Rain gain .83. I calculated that on the assumption that the older ws-1001 style array tipped at .3mm and the new HP2551 type array tipps at .25mm. But Ive just found on a post here that the newer HP2551 type array tipps at .254mm which would mean my Rain gain should be .85 on the old console. Can anyone here confirm the tipping figures of both arrays so that I can calculate the correct Rain gain ? Thanks

The easiest way is to measure the rainfall with your rain gauge like a bucket or other neat container with a large but known (calculated) inlet surface and compare with the HP2551 rain gauge. Then enter the correction in the console. Earlier, a correction factor should be calculated from the proportions

[Rychu]

(...) . Can anyone here confirm the tipping figures of both arrays so that I can calculate the correct Rain gain ?

Read Instructions HP2551_klik - in particular Chapter 10 - page 84 - Table pos. 10 (12th row) and there "stands" 0,3mm or one click on the weighing pan is 0.3 liters of rainfall. There is also a caveat there ...   

So it is neither 0.25 mm nor 0.254 mm ... but 0.3 mm.

Remember that the rain gauge measures with 10% accuracy.

[_John C]

Strange, as my HP2551 registers .2?? Not .3 With every tip.
E.g. it does not read .3 , .6 , .9 , 1.2.
It does read .3, .5, .8 , 1.0 , 1.3, 1.5. , 1.8 , 2.0.
Which makes it .25?. Not sure about the 3rd decimal place.

[Rychu]

.2"  or .2mm ?

[_John C]

mm