Topic: MUST READ - Fine Offset Clone Models,sensor compatibility etc -discussion thread

[Gyvate]

Thanks a lot for the quick reply. My main goal is to measure temperature inside and outside, and maybe in the future expand to air quality and solar radiation. But I don't want to invest much initially because I don't know if I will expend in other things.

So I am wondering if the precision of GW1100/WH32 is really that much better then one of these "stations" I have mentioned. Or even something like this https://www.amazon.de/Technoline-moderne-Wetterstation-schwarz-Hochglanz/dp/B07NDVJVSS

Otherwise the WH2800 is on sale now https://shop.ecowitt.com/products/wn2800 , I am located in Europe but don't mind using a different frequency. I don't understand if the outdoor sensor provided with the WH2800 is the WH32, because the whole package is reasonably cheaper.

I am not interested in rain/weather so seems like a waste to have a fully fledged weather station.

Any suggestions?

The Ecowitt WH2800 transmits at 433 MHz which is legal is Europe, only proner to electromagnetic interference.
The same piece is sold as GARNI 281 in Europe for about 40 EUR and at 868 MHz which is preferrable over 433 MHz.
It comes with one special WH31 sensor (Temp/RH extra sensor with DCF time signal receiver) which can be used for outdoor temperature - the indoor sensor is inbuilt in the console. You can connect two more WH31 sensors (total max three) if you like.
The WH31 and a WH32 have the same sensor chips.
For a WH2800 it doesn't matter that you only have WH31 and no WH32 - you define the meaning of your sensor(s). All three (if active) can be shown, switching manually or cycling automatically every 2-3 seconds.
The WH2800 / GARNI 281 can not be extended beyond the three WH31.
 A GW1100 can use all available Ecowitt sensors. However it has no display. You want a display you can repurpose an old (or new) Android tablet with the Personal Weather Tablet (PWT) app.
Or look the live data up in the WS View Plus, the Ecowitt app or at ecowitt.net (provided you register and create an account there).
The WH2800/GARNI 281 cannot send any data to weather networks.

[wxfan]

Thanks a lot for the quick reply. My main goal is to measure temperature inside and outside, and maybe in the future expand to air quality and solar radiation. But I don't want to invest much initially because I don't know if I will expend in other things.

So I am wondering if the precision of GW1100/WH32 is really that much better then one of these "stations" I have mentioned. Or even something like this https://www.amazon.de/Technoline-moderne-Wetterstation-schwarz-Hochglanz/dp/B07NDVJVSS

Otherwise the WH2800 is on sale now https://shop.ecowitt.com/products/wn2800 , I am located in Europe but don't mind using a different frequency. I don't understand if the outdoor sensor provided with the WH2800 is the WH32, because the whole package is reasonably cheaper.

I am not interested in rain/weather so seems like a waste to have a fully fledged weather station.

Any suggestions?

The Ecowitt WH2800 transmits at 433 MHz which is legal is Europe, only proner to electromagnetic interference.
The same piece is sold as GARNI 281 in Europe for about 40 EUR and at 868 MHz which is preferrable over 433 MHz.
It comes with one special WH31 sensor (Temp/RH extra sensor with DCF time signal receiver) which can be used for outdoor temperature - the indoor sensor is inbuilt in the console. You can connect two more WH31 sensors (total max three) if you like.
The WH31 and a WH32 have the same sensor chips.
For a WH2800 it doesn't matter that you only have WH31 and no WH32 - you define the meaning of your sensor(s). All three (if active) can be shown, switching manually or cycling automatically every 2-3 seconds.
The WH2800 / GARNI 281 can not be extended beyond the three WH31.
 A GW1100 can use all available Ecowitt sensors. However it has no display. You want a display you can repurpose an old (or new) Android tablet with the Personal Weather Tablet (PWT) app.
Or look the live data up in the WS View Plus, the Ecowitt app or at ecowitt.net (provided you register and create an account there).
The WH2800/GARNI 281 cannot send any data to weather networks.

Thank you for all these excellent information, that's what I was looking for! I am located in Europe, so as you mention the global frequency of the WH2800 is ok.

I think I will reduce considerably my goals, the GW1100 doesn't have a display, and I don't want to open my phone just to look at the data. I would like to start with the most simple setup. If I can't find a cheap Android device I will probably go with the WH2800.

Where do you find the Garni 281 for 40 euros?

[Rover1822]

I know this is hard, do not, please, rush out and buy the cheapest thing you can. Ponder it, you talked about expansion (maybe), re-evaluate ,  save your pennies , or not. I believe all of us here are trying to help, and there are very few that have not made a bad initial decision.

[wxfan]

I know this is hard, do not, please, rush out and buy the cheapest thing you can. Ponder it, you talked about expansion (maybe), re-evaluate ,  save your pennies , or not. I believe all of us here are trying to help, and there are very few that have not made a bad initial decision.

I appreciate the advice, and have been reading and thinking about this for a while now, I want a decent quality instrument, but I realize that adding sensors is more expensive than what I thought, and as I mentioned I am not really interested in wind, rain, etc. I should also not overdoit just to buy a cool toy   

[Gyvate]

Where do you find the Garni 281 for 40 euros?

https://www.alza.de/garni-281-d5358390.htm 41 EUR
https://www.garni-meteo.cz/meteorologicka-stanice-garni-281.html 56 EUR
https://stacje-pogody.pl/1452_stacja_pogody_garni_281.html 57 EUR
https://www.prva.sk/detail/garni-281-meteorologicka-stanice/kk388d270249.aspx 48 EUR 50 EUR
https://www.gigatron.sk/garni-281-meteorologicka-stanice/

[wxfan]

Where do you find the Garni 281 for 40 euros?

https://www.alza.de/garni-281-d5358390.htm 41 EUR
https://www.garni-meteo.cz/meteorologicka-stanice-garni-281.html 56 EUR
https://stacje-pogody.pl/1452_stacja_pogody_garni_281.html 57 EUR
https://www.prva.sk/detail/garni-281-meteorologicka-stanice/kk388d270249.aspx 48 EUR 50 EUR
https://www.gigatron.sk/garni-281-meteorologicka-stanice/

Thank you for the info. At this price I am debating if I should get the GW1100. The only issue I see is that some reviews complain about the wifi, I turn off my router every night so I wouldn't want to go through the setup every time my router is turned off. Some very recent reviews complain about this and the bad English translations. What are people experiences with the GW1100?

[Gyvate]

in your case the WH2800 would probably be the best (and healthiest) solution as the console doesn't transmit but only receives. It's not increasing the electro-smog in your place.

The GW1100 is a different story - you can get its info only via WiFi and you need to display that info on either some webpage or some device like a tablet. In any case WiFi will be involved.

Disconnecting the GW1100 from the router (by switching the router off or disabling its WiFi functionality) is not an issue as long as you have reserved the IP address of the GW1100, which it receives via DHCP from the router. Most routers offer such a possibility (binding the DHCP leased IP address to the MAC address of the device which makes it a quasi static IP address).

Most GW1100 WiFi issues discussed in the forum have either to do with the pairing or have more to do with the idiosyncracies of their network infrastructure setup than with the GW1100 itself - even though the tendency is first to blame the device (GW1100).

You want to avoid this and want also to avoid radiation overdose, go for a GW2000 (meanwhile also available as a single device). It has a WLAN and LAN connection - your choice. It can do all what a GW1100 can do. Connected via a LAN cable it may not need to be disconnected in the first place. It's also a displayless console (hub/gateway) by the way.

I think if you only want a fancy toy which only shows temperature (indoor and up to 3 other places), humidity and barometric pressure, even provides a simple weather forecast and shows moon phases - go for the WH2800 - it's 32 USD at Ecowitt.

You want more - or want to remain open for future expansion - a GW1100 or a GW2000 is the console of your choice (plus at least either a WH32 outdoor or/and a WH31 extra T/H sensor). If some day you want to expand, you can reuse what you already have. The WH2800 is a single appliance - no expansion possible, no outer world connection possible - just a little T/H/P display.

[wxfan]

Thanks for the further explanation Gyvate and for those links! I have decided to buy the WH2800, but now I am having trouble finding where to buy. Most those link are out of stock or don't ship to western Europe.

I could buy from Ecowitt website but they charge $14 for shipping. I am not in a rush, where else can I find this? Aliexpress? Thanks again!

[Gyvate]

you won't get it cheaper anywhere else than with Ecowitt ...
 you'll end up with around 48 USD including shipping and taxes (import VAT).
At the few sites inside Europe where it is available it will be rather 60+ EUR - but 868 MHz. i.e. sensors compatible with Europe 868 MHz consoles.
As this is a closed system, you can use the 433 MHz version - only the outdoor sensors will not be reusable later with a 868 MHz console - but that's right now anyway not your goal ...

[wxfan]

you won't get it cheaper anywhere else than with Ecowitt ...
 you'll end up with around 48 USD including shipping and taxes (import VAT).
At the few sites inside Europe where it is available it will be rather 60+ EUR - but 868 MHz. i.e. sensors compatible with Europe 868 MHz consoles.
As this is a closed system, you can use the 433 MHz version - only the outdoor sensors will not be reusable later with a 868 MHz console - but that's right now anyway not your goal ...

You are right, cheapest to get it from Ecowitt. I am just wondering if this setup is that much better in terms of precision than other cheaper alternatives such as some of the Garni or Baldr, or any of the other brands that have very similar small station with one outside sensor.

[Gyvate]

you won't get it cheaper anywhere else than with Ecowitt ...
 you'll end up with around 48 USD including shipping and taxes (import VAT).
At the few sites inside Europe where it is available it will be rather 60+ EUR - but 868 MHz. i.e. sensors compatible with Europe 868 MHz consoles.
As this is a closed system, you can use the 433 MHz version - only the outdoor sensors will not be reusable later with a 868 MHz console - but that's right now anyway not your goal ...

You are right, cheapest to get it from Ecowitt. I am just wondering if this setup is that much better in terms of precision than other cheaper alternatives such as some of the Garni or Baldr, or any of the other brands that have very similar small station with one outside sensor.

regarding precision, the sensors used for the WH2800 are the same (WH31) as with the bigger personal weather stations - they are using Sensirion SHT31^*) sensors. You're not likely to get higher precision in the low price segment of "enhanced" thermometers. Pretty unlikely. Even to get the same is unlikely. On the other hand you normally cannot expect the features of a BMW car in a Fiat 500 car.
Here, with Ecowitt, you would get the same sensors used in/with their high-end products even in their low cost segment.
Also, be realistic, you want a Swiss knife (a high quality multi-purpose tool) for a few cents, you won't get it (or it will fall apart at 1st or 2nd use).
*) you want to know more, have a look at https://www.sensirion.com

[Gyvate]

added some information about the Ecowitt Gateway API (aka GW1000 API) to the main thread as chapter 14

[BobH40]

First post folks, been following since I bought my WS-5000 14 months ago.

Well, the temperature sensor in the WS80BN failed. It's sending a temp of 108.5 f out to various weather services. I read the other very dense thread about ecowitt, fineoffset and Ambient compatibilty. Since the ambient version of the WH32 is no longer being sold I just want to confim I can't use the ecowitt WH32 version due to the blanket statement statement about ecowitt->ambient doesn't work, but the reverse does ( ambient -> ecowitt.

Correct?

My call to Ambient Weather says I need to buy a replacement sensor array to the tune of $195 rather than just replace the outdoor temp sensor compnentry. Also correct?

A side question, is there a way to disable sending the bogus data out to the verious weather services? The only thing I can see in the console settings is to disable the entire WS80BN. The wind data is still useful to me until I sort all this out.

Thanks!

[Gyvate]

there is hope ...
1. maybe you find an (old, used?) Ambient WH32E e.g. on ebay
2. if you manage to get an (older model) Ambient WH31E (maybe also on ebay or so) - it can be converted into a WH32 (Ambient WH32E) - with the newer hardware revision it hasn't been verified yet - some little soldering needed https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=43206.0
3. depending on the hardware revision of your WS80 (Ambient WS-5000 ARRAY) you can get a replacement sensor for about 16 USD from Ecowitt: https://shop.ecowitt.com/products/sht35-temp-hygr
It is for the WS80 and WS90 sensor arrays.

this is even a high precision sensor for temperature/rel. humidity. As this sensor is the same for Ambient branded and Ecowitt or reseller branded WS80, it's not affected by the firmware lock as it comes before the unit which manages the firmware information and the transmission RF frequency.

You will have to take your array down, open the radiation shield (should be easy to do) and have a look if the inserted T/RH sensor has the same connector as the one offered in the Ecowitt shop.

[chaugen1]

Ambient has released version 1.9.0 for the WS-200/5000 (scroll to the very bottom): https://ambientweather.com/faqs/question/view/id/1415/

[olicat]

Hi!

For the records:
The firmware v1.9.0 from Ambient Weather is (this time checked) binary identical to the v1.9.0 from Ecowitt.

Oliver

[Gyvate]

Hi!

For the records:
The firmware v1.9.0 from Ambient Weather is (this time checked) binary identical to the v1.9.0 from Ecowitt.

Oliver

noted
 "WiKi" (=MUST READ thread) updated
the device firmware is independent of the (re-) seller and Ambient's restrictions are included for everyone - only that non-Ambient consoles then don't use it

[kheller2]

Ambient has released version 1.9.0 for the WS-200/5000 (scroll to the very bottom): https://ambientweather.com/faqs/question/view/id/1415/

Someone should ping Ambient and have them fix the page ordering.

[Rover1822]

Pretty obvious the inclusion was a slap in on the firmware page, as seen by the indentation, lack of header, etc.

I assume this will be fixed.


I am going to be interested if the new firmware , for some strange reason, allows , non ambient sensors. I was intrigued by Oliver's post that they where binary the same. I will install tomorrow and see.



 

[kheller2]

Pretty obvious the inclusion was a slap in on the firmware page, as seen by the indentation, lack of header, etc.

I assume this will be fixed.


I am going to be interested if the new firmware , for some strange reason, allows , non ambient sensors. I was intrigued by Oliver's post that they where binary the same. I will install tomorrow and see.

Yeah .. um. no You can't read non-ambient sensors on an ambient piece of hardware. You can, however, read ambient sensors on ecowitt/clones.

The console firmware is the same on all the units (clones, Ambient etc..). Ambient's WiFi software is different (Easyweather vs AmbWeather).

[Gyvate]

I am going to be interested if the new firmware , for some strange reason, allows , non ambient sensors. I was intrigued by Oliver's post that they where binary the same. I will install tomorrow and see.

as said earlier - there is no difference in the firmware but in the hardware. non-Ambient consoles do not use the "Ambient-check" in the firmware and therefore can also receive Ambient sensors.

[Rover1822]

Installed the v1.9.0 on my WS-2000. No issues other than it wiped out my WiFi settings , had to re-select.

Gyvate, my post about it maybe read EcoWitt, sensors, is because it has happened in the past. When the WH57 (lightning) first came out , the WS-2000 was displaying data from the Ecowitt WH57. The next firmware update for the WS2000 removed that ability. I'm not arguing that Ambient can read Ecowitt sensors, just that it has happened in the past .

The basic rule is of course Ambient consoles will not display any other sensors other than their own brand.

[Gyvate]

Installed the v1.9.0 on my WS-2000. No issues other than it wiped out my WiFi settings , had to re-select.

Gyvate, my post about it maybe read EcoWitt, sensors, is because it has happened in the past. When the WH57 (lightning) first came out , the WS-2000 was displaying data from the Ecowitt WH57. The next firmware update for the WS2000 removed that ability. I'm not arguing that Ambient can read Ecowitt sensors, just that is has happened in the past .

The basic rule is of course Ambient consoles will not display any other sensors than their own brand.

I don't know how the firmware is programmed and how exactly the distinction is made. Maybe they use a white list with devices to be chaecked and the WH57/WH31L wasn't included yet in that version you are referring to and was simply added in the next FW version.

[Rover1822]

More than likely something along that line, it has happened a couple of times with newly released sensors.

[zoomx]

I don't know how the firmware is programmed and how exactly the distinction is made. Maybe they use a white list with devices to be chaecked and the WH57/WH31L wasn't included yet in that version you are referring to and was simply added in the next FW version.

My guess is that sensors transmit a slight different packet, one or more bits, depending on a solder pad, like the one that change a WH31 in a WH32.
Ambient consoles check that bits, the others simply ignore them, maybe in the same way, a solder pad.
This way the firmware is the same but the behaviour depends on solder pads.