Author Topic: Ambient weather the company (Read 1529 times)

truckdrivingnut · « **on:** July 27, 2020, 11:19:48 PM »

I am a weather station newb. I decided to get my toes wet. I ordered from Amazon a Ambient weather WS-2000. When it arrived it the console would not pair with the outside unit. After a little investigation I find the outside unit is a 433 Mhz unit and the console works at 916 Mhz. So it can't work. Ok so they messed up and sent me the wrong thing. I contact their tech support via email. Their response "We don't carry 433 Mhz units in our warehouse". Now obviously they sent it to me, I verified they had my order and they sell on Amazon. But they just kept repeating the same line. No offer to fix the situation.

I called them the next day. The technician actually accused me of trying to scam them somehow. I sent pictures to them of the unit and he claimed it had been outside and showed signs of rust. Literally the picture shows a sparkly new unit. After a lot of back and forth he finally says that I can send it back to them and they will inspect the unit. No offer on their end to pay for shipping. But I got this through Amazon so I use their return option to get a shipping label and ship it back to them. After a few days I send an inquiry through Amazon's system. They respond it will take a few days to inspect it. Finally I get notice through Amazon they will ship me back the system. No other communication or apology.

I receive the unit and hope it works, sure enough they sent me the correct one. I get it all setup and everything is working just fine. A week or so goes by and I get an email from them that my money was refunded and I need to ship the unit back to them. I never requested a refund. I figure that maybe there is a mistake since they had to ship it back and forth and I will wait and see if it corrects itself. A couple days later they call me. They ask that I send it back. I explain I am happy to pay them and that something they did must have caused Amazon to refund the money incorrectly and they should contact Amazon to fix it. The tech says he will investigate with Amazon.

The next day my device is disconnected from their cloud service. I contact them and ask them to turn it back on and to contact Amazon to fix the issue. I also express how I am very disappointed how I have been treated like a criminal when every mistake was theirs. Even after fixing this issue their rep still tries to indicate that somehow I did something wrong because they never carry 433 Mhz devices in their warehouse. This must be the first line they learn when starting at the company.

They don't contact Amazon, instead keep sending me emails and now they either want me to return the system or pay them directly. Now I know this is completely against the seller terms of agreement with Amazon. I decline to give them my credit card number. I then contact Amazon. I explain what happened to them. They agree that is against the terms of agreement and I did the right thing. They say they will contact the seller on my behalf and inform them they just need to contact the Amazon seller department to get paid. I see the message in my seller messaging area on Amazon. It clearly states they just need to contact Amazon to get their money. Ambient weather responds to Amazon stating "the money was refunded so tell the customer to return the device". Still no offer to pay for shipping or anything.

So now it seems this is personal. They don't want their money they just want the device, I assume because I want to keep it. They are mad at me for a mistake they made and they want me to suffer somehow.

It should be noted that they have not responded to many of my emails. Only finally responding after I go through Amazon to contact them. They have never apologized for their mistake. They did fix the mistake but still imply I was the one that caused the problem (not sure how I could have). They have tried to circumvent the seller's agreement with Amazon. I don't have any faith in the ethics of this company. I wish I had known that before purchasing. Their product seems fine, but the company seems like it has issues. People should know that.

KC5JIM · « **Reply #1 on:** July 28, 2020, 12:03:41 AM »

It's not a popular opinion around here, but the TRUTH is that Ambient Weather is run by a bunch of narcissistic con artists. Send them a cease and desist order via certified mail, throw their system in the trash, and buy a system from Ecowitt.

As a matter of full disclosure, Amazon does not do returns without refunding the purchase. If Ambient wanted you to send the system to them for inspection outside of Amazon, they should have provided you with a pre-paid return label. In the future, if you have a problem with a purchase from Amazon, unless it's from a third-party seller (it will say "ships and sold by xyz company" instead of sold by Amazon), just do a Return through Amazon and do not worry about contacting the seller. Leave appropriate feedback about your purchase/use experience with the seller and move on.

Mandrake · « **Reply #2 on:** July 28, 2020, 04:00:47 AM »

This sounds unusual for Ambient support, going by previous comments here.
Ambient also frequent this forum so I am sure this will grab their attention and they will respond.
I am sure this is all an unfortunate series of events but none the less very annoying for you as the consumer.
Lets hope they put this right for you.

galfert · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2020, 04:15:01 AM »

Hmmm wow. That is a lot of wrong things. Seems like one mistake (they ship a 433 MHz sensor array) just perpetuated and it just got worse and worse with some poor decision making on Ambient's part. I think your poor experience is clearly not the typical sentiment most users have of Ambient Weather. But probably because usually things just go right.

The typical concern most users have is connecting their unit to WiFi and RF range issues and other technical use issues which are clearly user error. For the most part Ambient is known for their excellent customer service in helping users connect and use of their systems and working through these issues. Clearly what has happened here is an unexpected event, which is the mystery of how a 433 MHz unit came about.

It is true that Ambient does not sell 433 MHz systems. Seems obvious to me that Ambient's supply chain made a mistake and a 433 MHz unit got mixed in with Ambient's 915 MHz supply. The original mistake is Fine Offset's fault. It all escalated from there. This is probably something that has never happened before. Or maybe it has happened and nobody figured it out. Ambient is very weary and sour about even the slight mention of other Fine Offset reseller brands. Ambient probably thought that you were trying to pull a con on them by getting them to take back a 433 MHz unit that you maybe got via some other means. This is because they were just incredulous to the possibility that a 433MHz unit somehow could even turn up in their inventory. The truth is that it all comes from the same factory in China and mistakes happen. I'm not taking sides. I have no reason to doubt your story. Seems like an unfortunate turn of events just kept getting worse and worse.

There are clearly several missteps that Ambient made. They failed to notice the return method used. They didn't realize that a return via Amazon upon completion caused and automatic purchase refund. Ambient then clearly sent the replacement unit back to you directly instead of via Amazon. That is another mistake only caused by their lack of noticing the return mechanism used. Clearly though the Amazon transaction worked as it should. But I think in some capacity that some honorable thing could be in realizing that Ambient goofed but they did send you a working unit and for that there is the matter that at the end of the day you should be made to pay for it. But more on this next as it isn't just so simple. You claim that Ambient should take it up with Amazon, but realize that the replacement sent was not shipped to you via Amazon. The Amazon transaction ended when you initiated a return and you got your money back. Ambient is never going to be able to get any money from Amazon for something that Ambient shipped directly to you. This is clearly Ambient's mistake. But there is the matter of what is right. And for that I think you should be willing to pay Ambient for what you received if you are okay with giving up on Amazon benefits. Ambient clearly made several mistakes. I'm sure they learned from this and they will be watching how a product gets returned from now on. The fact that Ambient never offered to pay for return shipping is a poor practice.

Amazon is never going to be able to get money out of you for a replacement return that Ambient directly shipped to you. But you shouldn't have to pay Ambient directly either for a purchase that you originally wanted to make via Amazon. If you pay Ambient directly then you lose out on all the Amazon purchase benefits. That is what you should tell Ambient. If they want their unit back then they should send you a label. They definitely goofed several times. But you should not expect the product to work that you clearly have not paid for. If they disabled it on their end from uploading to Ambientweather.net that is totally okay. They sent you something direct by mistake. It doesn't belong to you. But you clearly are not responsible for paying to ship it back nor should you have to pay them directly and miss out on the Amazon purchase benefits.

LazyDogFarms · « **Reply #4 on:** July 28, 2020, 07:40:07 AM »

If you received a full refund from Amazon and are this unsatisfied with your experience with Ambient Weather, consider telling them you'll return the WS-2000 as soon as you receive a prepaid shipping label. Once you receive the label, return the entire system and purchase a weather system from a different company, such as Ecowitt.

While I've owned an Ambient Weather system for years (WS-2080), I never had occasion to use Ambient Weather support or customer service since any problems were out of warranty and just required replacement of a part to resolve. On the other hand, I recently purchased an Ecowitt system and had some questions both pre-purchase and since order delivery. Their customer service (Lucy) has been timely and responsive. I can't speak to how they handle warranty issues with their systems as I haven't experienced any problems.

Good luck.

dmtalon · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2020, 08:54:04 AM »

Oh man,

That sounds terrible and unlike others here I've not seen positive or negative reviews about Ambient Weather's customer Support. But it makes me glad that I decided on Ecowitt over them. It sounds like the person(s) you were dealing with should not be customer facing support people, since word of mouth is pretty important.

Out of curiosity, do those consoles come branded (Ambient Weather, Ecowitt etc?). How else would you get an Ambient Weather 433mhz display. Another country (General question not to OP)

LazyDogFarms · « **Reply #6 on:** July 28, 2020, 09:07:07 AM »

Quote from: dmtalon on July 28, 2020, 08:54:04 AM

Oh man,

That sounds terrible and unlike others here I've not seen positive or negative reviews about Ambient Weather's customer Support. But it makes me glad that I decided on Ecowitt over them. It sounds like the person(s) you were dealing with should not be customer facing support people, since word of mouth is pretty important.

Out of curiosity, do those consoles come branded (Ambient Weather, Ecowitt etc?). How else would you get an Ambient Weather 433mhz display. Another country (General question not to OP)

OP said the array was 433MHz, not the console.

dmtalon · « **Reply #7 on:** July 28, 2020, 09:33:37 AM »

Quote from: LazyDogFarms on July 28, 2020, 09:07:07 AM

OP said the array was 433MHz, not the console.

Whoops, missed the word "outside" and from then on assumed console. regardless, it sounds like a terrible experience.

truckdrivingnut · « **Reply #8 on:** July 28, 2020, 11:47:18 AM »

Thanks for the feedback folks. It sounds like Ecowit is the way I should have went from the beginning. Live and learn I guess.

To clarify I am totally willing to pay Ambient Weather for the unit, I am not trying to keep both the unit and the money. I have contacted Amazon on their behalf and given them authorization to take the funds. Yet Ambient weather does not want the funds anymore for whatever reason. And Ambient has not offered to pay for the return shipping. I would send it back to end this nightmare, but I don't feel I should pay for the shipping.

Also the most surprising part of this, is that I have talked to several different people at Ambient either via email or phone and all of them treat me like I am in the wrong here. Both from their return department and their support department. So this seemed more like a company wide mentality. When I talked to them on the phone I mentioned they would stop replying to my emails, and they claimed they never did that. I have all the emails and lack of replies so I presented that to them, and they shrugged it off. The attitude was always "We don't make mistakes" here.

Sounds like many people have purchased the Ambient weather units, but not many people have had to deal with the company. Next time I will come here for advice before making a purchase decision.

LazyDogFarms · « **Reply #9 on:** July 28, 2020, 12:24:46 PM »

Seems like an easy enough solution. Don't wait for Ambient to offer to provide a shipping label, just email them and tell them that you are happy to return the weather station as they have requested, all they need to do is email you a prepaid shipping label. I wouldn't talk with them on the phone anymore if it has gotten contentious, plus the email provides a written record of the communications. Sometimes a customer/retailer relationship can't be salvaged and perhaps you are at that point.

If both you and they would rather you keep the station, contact Amazon by email and ask if they can void the refund. But if you are this unhappy with their "service after the sale", I wonder what your experience will be if you require support during the warranty period? Would they again suspect that you have "scammed" them and decline to provide repair or replacement of any defective components? Again, I have not had any experience with their warranty or tech support so I don't speak from experience, but unless you are satisfied that their service going forward will be different, a return may be your better option. Then you can purchase an Ecowitt system if you'd like.

Also, it appears from what I could see in an online review of the Ambient Weather WS-2000, that the outdoor array does NOT have any Ambient Weather branding. So it would certainly be possible that Fine Offset inadvertently included an non-US Osprey array with the Ambient Weather WS-2000 as the Osprey arrays don't seem to have any branding whatsoever and may only be distinguishable by the frequency printed on the bottom of the unit.

GHammer · « **Reply #10 on:** July 28, 2020, 12:38:03 PM »

Quote from: truckdrivingnut on July 28, 2020, 11:47:18 AM

Also the most surprising part of this, is that I have talked to several different people at Ambient either via email or phone and all of them treat me like I am in the wrong here. Both from their return department and their support department. So this seemed more like a company wide mentality. When I talked to them on the phone I mentioned they would stop replying to my emails, and they claimed they never did that. I have all the emails and lack of replies so I presented that to them, and they shrugged it off. The attitude was always "We don't make mistakes" here.

I'd be curious to know if you ever dealt with Ed. I suspect not.
Ambient was bought by a different firm awhile ago and may have put new people on the CS jobs.
In any case, I've never known a company takeover that wasn't just that. New policies and methods always follow.

LazyDogFarms · « **Reply #11 on:** July 28, 2020, 01:34:09 PM »

You might try emailing eedelman@ambientweather.com and see if he can help you get this resolved.

KC5JIM · « **Reply #12 on:** July 28, 2020, 03:38:42 PM »

Quote from: Mandrake on July 28, 2020, 04:00:47 AM

This sounds unusual for Ambient support, going by previous comments here.
Ambient also frequent this forum so I am sure this will grab their attention and they will respond.
I am sure this is all an unfortunate series of events but none the less very annoying for you as the consumer.
Lets hope they put this right for you.

I bought a WS-2902 from Ambient in 2016. I asked them about accessing the data to send to my website. Their response? "We made an API, learn how to program if you want to use your data on your own website." THAT is shitty customer service no matter how fancy you try to dress it up.

ambientweather · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2020, 10:36:07 AM »

I am sorry about this issue. It should have been handled much better, and for that I apologize. We occasionally see customers return what are supposed to be new, branded units with non-Ambient products.

What happens is someone's weather station fails, or they purchased a 433 MHz array from another company. They purchase a new station, then swap out the arrays in the box, and then return it as new.

The next customer purchases the unit from Amazon (it somehow passes inspection), and receives a miss-matched system, or even a used sensor array. It is difficult to stop with Amazon.

That being said, our customer support team should trust the customer. I am rather upset that this happened to you and deeply disappointed. I will get it corrected. I will contact our support team and figure out why they were not more helpful in this situation.

I have also asked our Director of Operations reach out to you personally and apologize.

Thanks for posting this. Without it, I can't make the necessary corrections. I am no longer the CEO of the company, I am a Senior Technical Advisor, but I still deeply care about our customers.

Regards,

Ed Edelman
Ambient Weather

Please, do not allow it to escalate to this point again. Feel free to email me eedelman@ambientweather.com and I can resolve issues immediately. As our company grows and we add people, they don't share the same importance as I do as the founder.

Sincerely,

Ed Edelman

ambientweather · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2020, 10:43:51 AM »

Quote from: kd7eir on July 28, 2020, 03:38:42 PM

Quote from: Mandrake on July 28, 2020, 04:00:47 AM
This sounds unusual for Ambient support, going by previous comments here.
Ambient also frequent this forum so I am sure this will grab their attention and they will respond.
I am sure this is all an unfortunate series of events but none the less very annoying for you as the consumer.
Lets hope they put this right for you.

I bought a WS-2902 from Ambient in 2016. I asked them about accessing the data to send to my website. Their response? "We made an API, learn how to program if you want to use your data on your own website." THAT is shitty customer service no matter how fancy you try to dress it up.

Greetings.

In 2016, we had an API but no ability to share your data on the website, so I mentioned that we had an API for programmers.

I would never say "We made an API, learn how to program if you want to use your data on your own website." I only offered our API as a possible solution, since the website was so new.

We've since added embedded and link share features, as well as individual tile sharing this week. So in 2016, we had little to offer, but we do now.

I am sorry if this was taken the wrong way, but I would never tell a customer to "learn how to program".

Thanks,

Ed

ambientweather · « **Reply #15 on:** August 04, 2020, 10:52:19 AM »

Quote from: kd7eir on July 28, 2020, 12:03:41 AM

It's not a popular opinion around here, but the TRUTH is that Ambient Weather is run by a bunch of narcissistic con artists. Send them a cease and desist order via certified mail, throw their system in the trash, and buy a system from Ecowitt.

Can you explain why you feel we are a bunch of con artists? We always want to do better, and would like to understand your comments. I believe we are always truthful with our customers. I will get to the bottom of this incident, but there must be something really deep down that is personal and emotional and I want to understand it.

Regards,

Ed Edelman
Founder
Ambient Weather

ambientweather · « **Reply #16 on:** August 04, 2020, 12:28:30 PM »

I found the picture of the array you sent in. You mentioned it looked new, but look at the rust holes around the screws and scuff marks. This is not how they come from the factory. In addition, there is substantial rust in the battery compartment.

I would have to concur that the sensor array does look a few years old to me (just from the picture, I have not seen the actual array).

galfert · « **Reply #17 on:** August 04, 2020, 12:52:19 PM »

I have a question regarding Amazon purchases....If someone orders an Ambient system from Amazon, could they receive a returned Ambient station from someone else? Meaning a return that Amazon just decided to add back into their inventory? Because I thought all Amazon returns were dealt with at auctions or sold as reconditioned.

ambientweather · « **Reply #18 on:** August 04, 2020, 01:41:04 PM »

Hi galfert,

I don't like to publish ways to beat the system with Amazon, but I will share anyway since you asked.

We have received returned units from Amazon that have our outer box and completely different equipment inside. La Crosse, AcuRite, Ecowitt. Some returned stations marked "no longer needed" have years old equipment in the returned box. What happens is someone purchases a new station, puts their old components in the box and ships it back as new. How that makes it into another customer's hands from Amazon is beyond me. This happens about 20 times a year with Amazon. It never happens when purchased from us directly.

I spoke to manufacturing, and I was told that it was impossible from a logistics standpoint to receive a 433 MHz array with a 915 MHz unit, so I can only conclude is the customer received the unit as new. Even the customer mentioned it looked brand new, but the picture above shows rust marks, scuff marks, and other wear and tear. It's therefore obvious to me that the unit was used, not new, and did not come from the factory. It certainly did not come from us.

All of our returned units are tossed, unless they are absolutely never touched, and only then do we sell it as an OB or open box, at a discount. What concerned Anthony from Customer Service, is the customer mentioned it was brand new, and the image below showed a unit that appears to be used. He should have been a bit more understanding, realizing the customer may not know what a used unit looks like. I can easily spot it from the image below but perhaps only an expert can pick it up.

I think the issue is Amazon does not always inspect units that are returned, or may not even know what to look for.

Rover1822 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 04, 2020, 02:22:58 PM »

One thing to take into consideration, unless I missed it, was that the OP may have installed the exterior unit, maybe causing the scuff marks, (no idea on the rust)

That being said, I can see the resale Amazon situation as more plausible.

I will also say that hearing "I spoke to manufacturing, and I was told that it was impossible from a logistics standpoint to receive a 433 MHz array with a 915 MHz unit" . Well you as the buyer / reseller Ed, well I would think you would want more than someone saying its impossible. I have been round and round with product manufacturers that will swear up an down it wasn't them, and in the end having it be them (not in all cases).

Grin, if I was the manufacturer, I would be telling you it was impossible.

Once again I see the Amazon return coming into play.It is more plausible.

ambientweather · « **Reply #20 on:** August 04, 2020, 02:36:36 PM »

Quote from: Rover1822 on August 04, 2020, 02:22:58 PM

One thing to take into consideration, unless I missed it, was that the OP may have installed the exterior unit, maybe causing the scuff marks, (no idea on the rust)

That being said, I can see the resale Amazon situation as more plausible.

I will also say that hearing "I spoke to manufacturing, and I was told that it was impossible from a logistics standpoint to receive a 433 MHz array with a 915 MHz unit" . Well you as the buyer / reseller Ed, well I would think you would want more than someone saying its impossible. I have been round and round with product manufacturers that will swear up an down it wasn't them, and in the end having it be them (not in all cases).

Grin, if I was the manufacturer, I would be telling you it was impossible.

Once again I see the Amazon return coming into play.It is more plausible.

Perhaps I should have said "extremely unlikely", since the entire production line is re-configured for each configuration.

Rover1822 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 04, 2020, 02:39:01 PM »

Grin, I just hate the word impossible

Are there other photographs the OP could have taken , that would have aided his quest, serial tag etc?

ambientweather · « **Reply #22 on:** August 04, 2020, 02:44:31 PM »

Quote from: Rover1822 on August 04, 2020, 02:39:01 PM

Grin, I just hate the word impossible

Are there other photographs the OP could have taken , that would have aided his quest, serial tag etc?

They are not serialized. There is a lot number in the battery compartment. But knowing that it was 433 MHz, we knew the array came from an outside source.

Our customer service agent should have handled this better. I stepped away from service and am focusing on new product development, and ran across this on accident, but I will remind our support team the customer is always right.

galfert · « **Reply #23 on:** August 04, 2020, 03:58:39 PM »

What we have learned...

A - The unit was used
B - The unit was 433
C - Amazon may ship out a previous customer return to a new customer (that could have been swapped by previous buyer)
D- The OP identified it as new, and perhaps their ability to asses new vs. used is not within their capability, but they should not be held responsible for not being keen to notice

Conclusions - The unit didn't come from the Ambient logistics supply chain because it was used. The unit had to have either come from a previous Amazon return or the customer is not being forthright. We will never know the answer given the evidence.

Lessons - Buy direct from Ambient and not from Amazon for better quality control. Ambient should see if there is anything that can be done about eliminating that returns can end up shipped back out to new customers.

My 2 cents - Always buy with a good credit card. My Amex has my back every time.

dmtalon · « **Reply #24 on:** August 04, 2020, 04:05:28 PM »

Quote from: galfert on August 04, 2020, 03:58:39 PM

Lessons - Buy direct from Ambient and not from Amazon for better quality control. Ambient should see if there is anything that can be done about eliminating that returns can end up shipped back out to new customers.

This is somewhat off topic, but Amazon has really started to leave a bad taste in my mouth lately. In the past week in a half they lost my WH32, send me the wrong item, then couldn't find the replacement once it was already "out for delivery" delaying the shipment yet another day.

News:

Author Topic: Ambient weather the company (Read 1529 times)