Author Topic: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...  (Read 1368 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline voyager

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« on: March 10, 2021, 04:12:21 AM »
I want to get a PWS capable of measuring wind speed and direction, rainfall, indoor-outdoor temps & humidity, barometric pressure, solar radiation/UV, and need records of previous measurements to track the variations in them with, plus an indoor display.
Don't see anything else I really need or want.

I'm on the windward side of Big Island in a high rainfall, heavily vegetated area.
It will have to be mounted on the house's roof.
The house has a metal roof, so wi-fi cannot be trusted to monitor it.
I will need a wired PWS.

I really liked the Ambient WS-2902C.
Problem is that it comes only in wifi, as all Ambients  and Acurites seem to do.
Any suggestions as to what can give me what I'm looking for?

Offline wvdkuil

  • Wim van der kuil
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1820
    • My PWS at Leuven Belgium Europe
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2021, 04:48:56 AM »
I want to get a PWS capable of measuring wind speed and direction, rainfall, indoor-outdoor temps & humidity, barometric pressure, solar radiation/UV, and need records of previous measurements to track the variations in them with, plus an indoor display.
Don't see anything else I really need or want.

I'm on the windward side of Big Island in a high rainfall, heavily vegetated area.
It will have to be mounted on the house's roof.
The house has a metal roof, so wi-fi cannot be trusted to monitor it.
I will need a wired PWS.

I really liked the Ambient WS-2902C.
Problem is that it comes only in wifi, as all Ambients  and Acurites seem to do.
Any suggestions as to what can give me what I'm looking for?

Transmission between the outside unit on the roof and the "receiver" inside the house is NOT Wifi.
The frequencies used by the sensors are one of (depending on your location): 433, 868, or 915 MHz (915 MHz for United States).
The sensors use only 1-way communication, from outside to any number of listeners.

The signal will weaken as all signals do, passing through walls and roofs, but it in most cases it will get to the console easily.

Wim


« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 04:57:52 AM by wvdkuil »
Support for Leuven-Template & Scripts  at this forum via https://support.leuven-template.eu/
Support for the PWS_Dashboard  pwsdashboard.com

Offline broadstairs

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 195
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2021, 05:15:00 AM »
If you really want a wired station the only one I know of is a Davis VP2, others here may know any more. It is a high quality station and comes at a commensurate price!

Stuart
Ecowitt GW1003 with ultrasonic wind gauge, lightning sensor and PM2.5 sensor.

Offline voyager

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2021, 05:48:53 AM »
I made one error in my list of capabilities wanted.
I do not need or want the UV sensor.

Yeah, I thought that I would really prefer a cabled PWS.
After looking at the Davis PWS, I was convinced that would be the way to go.
The consensus on the quality of Davis seemed to make the pricing worthwhile.

But, after looking a bit further at what would be needed to use one, my enthusiasm waned.
I would have to add the solar radiation sensor and the dongle to get it hooked up to the PC.
Those two added sensor would add almost $300  to the $500+ PWS's price.
I was still open to the Davis 6152C until I looked at user reviews on the dongle.
There were a lot of negative reviews on the software for it.

I'd recently bought some very nice hardware for my PC.
I was very put off by the old clunky software that came with it, detracting from the hardware's usage.

For the ~$800 it'd cost for the Davis, I could buy more than 4 of the Ambients.
That should overwhelm the negative reviews concerning the Ambient's quality.
Buy 2 of them, holding one as a spare for half the price.

That still leaves the wireless/steel roof problem.
How about adding an outdoor wireless router for the PWS to access the PC through?
Can 2 of them be used, one indoors and one outdoors?

If I mounted one on the house's exterior, it should be available to the PWS.
My PC picks up several neighborhood wireless routers.
It should also pickup one on the exterior of the house.
Thoughts, ...suggestions? 




Offline davidmc36

  • He who dies with the most toys wins!
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
  • FN25ie61jw
    • MorewoodW34
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2021, 06:12:06 AM »
Just because it is a metal roof doesn't automatically mean it WON'T receive.

Offline wvdkuil

  • Wim van der kuil
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1820
    • My PWS at Leuven Belgium Europe
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2021, 06:13:11 AM »
. . .
That still leaves the wireless/steel roof problem.
How about adding an outdoor wireless router for the PWS to access the PC through?
Can 2 of them be used, one indoors and one outdoors?

If I mounted one on the house's exterior, it should be available to the PWS.
My PC picks up several neighborhood wireless routers.
It should also pickup one on the exterior of the house.
Thoughts, ...suggestions?
The console is the only part using WiFi. And that would be inside the house with normal WiFi access.

The outside part is a sensor and normally will transmit  (like a radio-station) to any number listeners => your console.

The used frequency by the outside sensors probably passes through the roof and the console will receive the data on its  433 or 915 MHz frequency.
It will then transmit its data using WiFi inside the house. As allyour other WiFi devices do.

Wim
Support for Leuven-Template & Scripts  at this forum via https://support.leuven-template.eu/
Support for the PWS_Dashboard  pwsdashboard.com

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6781
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2021, 07:45:44 AM »
You are in the US, buy the Ambient and test it. If it doesn't work it's hardly a hassle to return it. Do let us know how it turns out either way as it will help future buyers.

Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline TraderGary

  • Active Stock Market Trader
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
  • Amateur Radio W9VJ
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2021, 10:48:02 AM »

You asked for suggestions and since you said that solar radiation and UV were important to you, here is something you should be aware of...

Less expensive stations don't use actual separate solar and UV sensors. They use an inexpensive single light meter and then use an algorithm to guess the actual solar radiation and UV radiation.
Davis Vantage Pro2 Plus 6163 (Wireless) | Davis WeatherLink Live 6100 | Meteobridge Pro
WeatherLink | WundergroundCWOPAWEKASWindy

Offline voyager

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2021, 04:36:09 PM »
@ davidmc36; wvdkuil; galfert; & TraderGary

I may be in the U.S., but I"m still in the middle of the Pacific.
Many of the mainland purchasing rules do not apply here or are simply augmented, usually against us.
Many of Amazon's Prime items are not even shippable.

I understand that a metal roof is a maybe.
But, I have seen reviews of wireless PWS's that say they will not work when mounted on metal roofs.

Some mfgrs. warn that metal siding will stop outdoor installs from connecting to interior portions.
I have not found anything specific pointed at metal roofs, other than reviews.

I can do returns for defective items and wrong shipments where they pay the return costs.
Personal errors in making the orders become much more problematical.
Return shipping can be very expensive adding a big addition of a useless charge.
It has to be unpacked and mounted to see if it will work.

35 years in Alaska with almost 10 years in Hawai'i.
I've been placing remote orders with the mainland for a long time now.
This one has potential problems written all over it.
I need to figure out all my options before  committing to it.

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6781
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2021, 04:44:44 PM »
Very interesting. It didn't occur to me that life would be different in this regard if you were not in the lower 48.
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline CW2274

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5908
    • Conditions @ CW2274 West Tucson-Painted Hills Ranch
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2021, 04:48:06 PM »
I understand that a metal roof is a maybe.
If there's one thing the Davis truly excels at compared to the others is transmission distance, by far superior. I'm also quite sure there's a member here with a Davis over a metal roof and has no problems. You can even horizontally polarize both antennas since you'd have the ISS above the console. All that said, the roof is not the place for the ISS, but if that's what ya gotta do...

Offline vinceskahan

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • home site
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2021, 04:37:20 PM »
... almost 10 years in Hawai'i.
I've been placing remote orders with the mainland for a long time now.
This one has potential problems written all over it.

You might want to surf WU's map and perhaps the weewx map of registered stations for sites in your location and see if you can email the owners for how they did with mounting their stations....

Or contact Davis support directly.  They seem to be very responsive to questions.

I'm a little uncertain about the mentions of wifi above since the stations are talking on different spectrum far below the 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands.  They are wireless but not 'wifi' as most folks use the term.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 04:40:58 PM by vinceskahan »
WeeWX sites:
  Davis VP2+DFARS to a Seagate Dockstar (pogoplug)
  EcoWitt GW1000, WH32 outdoor T+H, multiple WH31 indoor T+H, WH51 soilMoisture (pi3)
Home site:        http://www.skahan.net/
Wunderground: KWAFEDER15
PWS:                KWFEDER15
CWOP:             CW6881

Offline Mandrake

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2021, 11:55:57 AM »
As has been mentioned dont get too hung up on a metal roof as there are many users in Australia with tin roofs with weather stations (Ecowitt/Ambient and Davis)
However the more important note is that installing the sensors on the roof may well compromise measurement from the heat reflected and absorbed by the metal.
Better to install elsewhere if you can!
Retired: Old Maplin N96Y/FO Weather station
G1ZFO

Ecowitt HP2551A + WH65 Tri-Wing (Wunderground: IGUILDFO67)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Wunderground: IGUILDFO68)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Mk2) test environment driving CumulusMX on a RPi 3b
Ecowitt WH51 (x6) Soil Moisture Sensor
Ecowitt WH41 PM2.5 AQM Sensor
Ecowitt WH31 (x8) Thermo/Hygro Sensor
Ecowitt WS80 Ultrasonic Anemometer (pre-prod test)
Ecowitt WH57 Lightning Sensor (pre-prod test)
Ecowitt WH32-EP (SHT35) + Davis 7714 Screen
Ecowitt WH45 CO2/PM2.5/PM10 (production Test)
Ecowitt WN34 Soil Temperature Sensor -Test
Ecowitt WN34 Water Temperature Sensor -Test

Offline voyager

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2021, 07:40:12 PM »
Well, I have made my decisions.
If the metal roof is a problem, I'll pick up an outdoor wireless access point for it, but don't think I'll need one.
I ordered an Ambient Weather WS-5000.
The major difference between it and a Davis, as I see it, will be mostly a small amount of inconsequential accuracy.
Everything I want, ... plus, are on the WS-5000.
I could buy almost 3 of the WS-5000 to get the capabilities I want from a Davis.
If I do need to purchase a second WS-5000, I'll get a total of 2 years of warranty, a year for each one, another year for a third one if needed.

Also, I get the feeling that Davis' items are getting a bit long in the tooth.
Updated products should be coming out in the near future, not willing to wait and see what happens.

Plus while I was looking and deciding, the WS-5000 sold out everywhere including the mfgr.
Couldn't get my hands one for almost a week.
Looks like people might be snapping them up.

I understand Ambient was bought out recently by someone with a history of producing good weather gear.
The WS-5000 is the 1st of the new products from the new ownership.
And, the major improvement over the WS-2000 is the sonic wind speed/direction sensing.
That should be a big plus for reliability, many less moving parts to wear out.

And, ...I might be full of BS right up to my eyebrows too.


 



Offline CW2274

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5908
    • Conditions @ CW2274 West Tucson-Painted Hills Ranch
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2021, 08:01:06 PM »
If the metal roof is a problem
Forget what brand of PWS you buy, as stated above, sticking it on top of a roof (metal at that) is about the last place you want to put it.

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 6781
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2021, 08:35:01 PM »
If the metal roof is a problem, I'll pick up an outdoor wireless access point for it, but don't think I'll need one.

You've been told a number of times, an outdoor WiFi access point is not going to help with the metal roof! The outdoor sensors are not WiFi.   :roll: 

There are lots of things that are "wireless." But wireless doesn't always mean WiFi.
- Garage door opener
- TV remote control
- Headphones
- Keyboards and mice
- Portable radio
- smart switches and outlets
- Cell phones (when using cellular towers)
- home cordless phones
- Toll plaza toll payment device
- satellite TV
- RC planes/cars/boats and drones
- some car keys
- baby monitor
- GPS navigation
- Walkie Talkies
- store product anti-theft devices
- and many more things

In fact those are all different wireless technologies, none of them WiFi. They are incompatible with each other. You wouldn't think of fixing the reception of any of those things with a WiFi access point. Likewise a WiFi access point will not help your weather station sensor reception. Some other wireless technologies are: RF, NFC, Bluetooth, cellular, GPS, Zigbee, Z-wave, IR, satellite link, lasers and many more with variations in implementation and protocols and frequency. The weather sensors are RF (one way Radio Frequency broadcast).

The weather station console may say it connects to the Internet via WiFi, but that WiFi connection is only used to put your data online. The display console gets the data from the sensors not with WiFi, but via RF. The display console therefore has two antennas, one for WiFi and one for the RF sensors.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 09:25:00 PM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge on Raspberry Pi
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline voyager

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2021, 04:36:49 AM »
OK, It's up and in, and seems to be working as it should.
Had  a few  glitches, seem to have them worked out.
I'll know for sure after sunrise tomorrow when I can confirm things.

They don't give good, or even any explanations for a lot of the stumbling blocks I found during setup.
But, I seem to have gotten them figured out.

My install looks to be very much in tune with other nearby installations.
Not much difference in readings.

I made one change.
Instead of mounting it on the house's metal roof, I mounted it on the spa's pergola roof on a 6' pole.
It's further away from the display, but still has a somewhat better distance to some obstructions.

Thought I had, but guess I hadn't mentioned that I lived on the windward side of Big Island.
That puts my home on a clearing in the jungle.
Many nearby tall trees.
It seems that the things affected most were wind speed and direction, but not badly enough to make them useless.
Speed is still well indicated for potential house harm when hurricanes or other wind storms come through.
Wind direction is variable, but still grouped in trains approximating its primary direction of travel.
Everything else looks to be pretty good.

The solar radiation monitor will be useful in monitoring what's happening with our PV and solar hot water systems.
I live in a high rainfall area and can now have a  good handle on the precipitation we actually get.
I think it'll be a much better indicator than NWS based 50+ miles away with  their shotgun calculated forecasts.
If interested, this is my W-U site:
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHIPAHOA39?cm_ven=localwx_pwsdash

« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 04:39:08 AM by voyager »

Offline voyager

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2021, 05:39:05 PM »
I found that, supposedly, the Ambient WS-5000 and the Ecowitt HP2553 are basically the same, including pricing, only rebranded.

Although I had committed to the Ambient, out of curiosity I looked at the Ecowitt to see if I had any wounds to lick.
They do seem to be at least very similar, if not the same.

What I did find is the manual for the Ecowitt.
https://osswww.ecowitt.net/uploads/20200923/0f760ecc8955bbdbb2c6efe327685950.pdf
It looks to be better written, easier to understand, and has more explanatory information concerning the console's readouts.
It was very helpful in fully, I think, understanding the information displayed.
I recommend having both manuals for the use of the Ambient, at least in the beginning.

While checking online, I couldn't find where Ecowitt was located.
From the wording and information on their website, I'm thinking they're probably in China.

I'm in the middle of the Pacific and have lived remote in Alaska and Hawai'i for many, many years.
Again from their website's wording, I'm thinking that I would also probably have ended up having shipping charges added.

I could go on, but, I'm happy with my choice.
Even though, I didn't see having a choice at the time.

Offline Mandrake

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2021, 08:58:29 AM »
For reference Ecowitt is the in-house branding for Fine Offset who manufacture these weather stations.
Ambient is a rebadged variant with a custom firmware sold out of the USA and limited to 915Mhz
Fine Offset/Ecowitt was born in Hong Kong but now operates largely out of Shenzen, China on the border although I believe they still have HK offices as well.
Retired: Old Maplin N96Y/FO Weather station
G1ZFO

Ecowitt HP2551A + WH65 Tri-Wing (Wunderground: IGUILDFO67)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Wunderground: IGUILDFO68)
Ecowitt GW1000 (Mk2) test environment driving CumulusMX on a RPi 3b
Ecowitt WH51 (x6) Soil Moisture Sensor
Ecowitt WH41 PM2.5 AQM Sensor
Ecowitt WH31 (x8) Thermo/Hygro Sensor
Ecowitt WS80 Ultrasonic Anemometer (pre-prod test)
Ecowitt WH57 Lightning Sensor (pre-prod test)
Ecowitt WH32-EP (SHT35) + Davis 7714 Screen
Ecowitt WH45 CO2/PM2.5/PM10 (production Test)
Ecowitt WN34 Soil Temperature Sensor -Test
Ecowitt WN34 Water Temperature Sensor -Test

Offline LeeWx

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2021, 08:13:07 PM »
The Logia 7 in 1 WiFi Station is a great budget choice as it has those features and is extremely accurate. Right there with Davis, Temp and Humidity. Also, one of if not the longest reception range for The budget Stations. 450-492 feet line of sight. Price : 159 USD.

Offline WeatherHost

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3567
Re: Finally getting ready to jump for a PWS ...
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2021, 01:25:53 AM »
Instead of mounting it on the house's metal roof, I mounted it on the spa's pergola roof on a 6' pole.

That may be OK for your own personal use and curiosity, but when making it public, it doesn't meet any of the standards for location.  The temperature and rain sensors should be around 8 feet and the wind sensor closer to 30 feet  .... which is another reason I don't like any of the 'all in one' units.



ICDHost, Webhosting:  https://www.icdsoft.com/c/webhost

 

anything